The Doctrine of the Trinity and the Unity of God: a Critique
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- čas přidán 30. 11. 2020
- I read from William Ellery Channing: Selected Writings (Sources of American Spirituality).
Also visit this excellent resource:
'Trinities: Theories about God, Jesus, and the Trinity' by Dr Dale Tuggy: trinities.org/blog/
Can't get enough of this rich information, may Allah preserve Paul and give him this task to enrich us with his knowledge.
We need more eloquent and intellectual Muslims like you in Europe, you are a gem.
13:53 I like the reference to the need for "chasteness" of worship. By definition, there can be only one supreme being. To offer worship and devotion to multiple recipients lacks fidelity and seems somewhat promiscuous.
I make duaa Allah reward you, for how much you make things clear. Wonderful! I am a big fan of yours.
I wish our people here in Brazil could understand English to watch your vídeos.
Sim, Alex! vamos solicitar que ele inclua tradução automática para o Português 🌷
@@iarasilva2131 hhh, and in french too.
Thanks for the presentation, like to hear more William Ellery Channing and take care.
Daily uploads are great. Always look forward to the content.
🙏
What a piercing presentation, like an expert huntsman's arrow hitting its mark with victorious precision.
Thank you, kind sir, for this, your eloquent (as always) offering.
Glad you enjoyed it
@@BloggingTheology are you a muslim! If not what do you practice believe in!?.
@@greatestclips6428 he is a former christian turned muslims after researching a lot about his religion he found a lot of flaws and realized christianity is not the truth than he found muslim did research and inshallah then he cionverted to islam
Thank you Bro Paul.
Jazakallah.
Thank you for your sharing sir, precious knowledge.
My pleasure
Is there any chance you can provide us your podcast in pdf?? Cause I can't afford to buy all the books you use as reference . Thank you Mir
Thank you. You're helping me build my library.
Great to hear!
Very informative. Highly appreciated.
May Allah bless you ! May Allah make that through you will wake up as much people as possible 🙏
Thank you for sharing the book recommendation.
Thank you so much for this wonderful lecture. May the almighty Allah reward you enormously
Brilliant!
As always, brilliant brother Paul. Keep up the great intellectual work you are doing, may Allah reward you for what you are doing, you are an example of a man who truly searched the truth by both his heart and brain
Thanks for sharing this informative,fascinating video! May Allah bless,you!
Thank you Br Paul for the book refferal about Unitarian theology .
Greetings Sir! Please allow captions for this video also, and include Portuguese language. Regards, Yara from Brazil
Paul,you do a great service for islam community.i really appreciate when your share books
It is indeed great stuff. Thank you so much.
Guys! Don't forget to subscribe to this man!! He is a great source of information.
You might also like what Dr Dale Tuggy wrote about the trinity in the ‘Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.’
Great knowledge, thank you🤲🤲🤲
Excellent
Thank you so much 😀
5:98 could anyone explain what does the word "even the father" mean in that context. thanks
I see 7 dislikes so far.would be informative to know why?
trinity is dead& buried when one is honost too oneself
May The Almighty bless you
According to God's Holy Prophet John, 'in the Spirit' throughout the Revelation, after seeing and hearing the Revelation, calls Jesus GOD ALMIGHTY in Rev. 1:7,8.
Are you one of God's Holy Prophets, or have you ever been in the Spirit? No? Then you don't have a voice here.
Are you aware you have just blasphemed the Holy Spirit?
Furthermore, you may be one of those One and only God believers, that unknowingly believes the RCC Trinity, which is not at all like the Protestant Trinity presented here.
The following is the RCC Trinity, which came out of the Council of Nicea.
See if that looks familiar to you. If so, you have been deceived to the max.
There is another understanding of the Trinity presented by the Roman Catholic Church.
In fact the Roman Catholic Church understanding of the Trinity has been unknowingly adopted by some folk who don't believe in a Trinity at all!
The following should be of particular interest to those who believe in One God, and do not believe in 'THE TRINITY'.
Check this out!
There are some One and only God believers that believe Jesus is just the only begotten Son of God.
They believe Jesus was BROUGHT FORTH FROM THE FATHER before anything was created.
And all things were given to Jesus, by INHERITANCE.
That is also what the Roman Catholic Church Trinity proclaims.
The Roman Catholic Church Trinity shows Jesus as being GENERATED BY THE FATHER, BEGOTTEN, if you will.
And the Holy Spirit?
Some One and Only God believers say, "The Holy Spirit is THE MIND OF CHRIST", and "is the SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST".
The Roman Catholic Church Trinity says.....
The Son "proceeds from the Father" and the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son."
In other words Father begets the Son, and since the Son proceeds from the Father, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, who was begotten of the Father.
source:
www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/explaining-the-trinity
The Catholic Trinity shows Jesus as being GENERATED BY THE FATHER, BEGOTTEN, and the Holy Spirit would not exist, WITHOUT the FATHER GENERATING JESUS!
So, there are some ONE AND ONLY GOD BELIEVERS, who have unknowingly bought into the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TRINITY, while claiming there is no TRINITY!
(*&&*&&&^^%&%$*$^##@#^%$*(&^*)&^)*^%*^&$#^$@%#@!!$^#%#^%&(^)&^*^))))
There is another understanding of the Trinity presented by the Roman Catholic Church.
In fact the Roman Catholic Church understanding of the Trinity has been unknowingly adopted by some folk who don't believe in a Trinity at all!
The following should be of particular interest to those who believe in One God, and do not believe in 'THE TRINITY'.
Check this out!
There are some One and only God believers that believe Jesus is just the only begotten Son of God.
They believe Jesus was BROUGHT FORTH FROM THE FATHER before anything was created.
And all things were given to Jesus, by INHERITANCE.
That is also what the Roman Catholic Church Trinity proclaims.
The Roman Catholic Church Trinity shows Jesus as being GENERATED BY THE FATHER, BEGOTTEN, if you will.
And the Holy Spirit?
Some One and Only God believers say, "The Holy Spirit is THE MIND OF CHRIST", and "is the SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST".
The Roman Catholic Church Trinity says.....
The Son "proceeds from the Father" and the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son."
In other words Father begets the Son, and since the Son proceeds from the Father, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, who was begotten of the Father.
source:
www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/explaining-the-trinity
The Catholic Trinity shows Jesus as being GENERATED BY THE FATHER, BEGOTTEN, and the Holy Spirit would not exist, WITHOUT the FATHER GENERATING JESUS!
So, there are some ONE AND ONLY GOD BELIEVERS, who have unknowingly bought into the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TRINITY, while claiming there is no TRINITY!
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
@@randallsmith7224 seriously u guys have these on copy paste?
@@maazhanif8753 You guys?
Listen to me. As far as I know, well let me put it this way, I know, when I present Rev. 22:16, Rev. 22:6-9 as the best proof in the Bible that Jesus is God, (That's the short version, there's more to it), there is good reason that is NOT COPY AND PASTE!!!!!.
Now, there is something unusual about showing those verses. For one thing I have never seen ANYONE that is even aware that is proof in the Bible that JESUS IS GOD! No Bible students, Pastors, evangelists, or Bible scholars have seen that, or they would be using it!!!!!
As far as I know I am the only one that has seen that. Now, is that because I am some kind of super duper Bible scholar? No.
I am something else. PAY ATTENTION PAL!!!
In 1990 I earnestly prayed to God to help me understand the Revelation, (The 'unveiling' in the original Koine Greek.)
What I got in response to that prayer was way more than what I asked for. I was given a 24 hour vision, that took me about a week to recover from. Most of what I saw I somehow understood, but can't explain using three dimensional language.
It was not like sitting back and watching a movie. It was intense, fast, and time was distorted.
The best way to put it was my brain hurt by the end of it, and I wasn't sure how much more I could take.
God is merciful and knew when to stop.
The vast majority of what I saw was the 'mystery of godliness', if you will, a theme the Apostle Paul was fond of.
However, I was imbued with the Spirit to search out the meaning of the Revelation, and what I show is the result of that vision and my commission to unravel it.
The very last thing I saw were kids preaching in great power. I realized later that I saw the kids that would be preaching in great power when they were older.
We are close, very close to the end of this miserable blight in the Universe known as Earth.
Close to the final message commissioned to those kids to deliver, delivered shortly before the end of this miserable Satanically influenced World.
You accept the Truth I am showing, that they will preach in great power, and accept and live it, or die forever in the second death of the Revelation. Rev. 21:8, forever.
What is someone called that receives a vision from God?
A PROPHET!!
Get it?
Mr Paul thank you. Where can I get your books?
The mountains shake in fear and disgust over the trinity
By looking at the picture of the divine (or divines)...
How many Gods are there in it? two or three? is the one resembled by a bird a lesser God? or instead the opposite, since it can fly?
Am I addressing this particular God wrong, by saying 'it'? It's a bird!?!?
Am I missing any other entity in the picture, that I'm afraid hidden, to resemble more God as it might be intended? I mean, if it meant to be more than three, four, five... fifteen.. what difference does it make?
SubhanAllah, "They are compelled to leave the Bible, and to invent forms of words altogether unsanctioned by Scripture".
Jesus Deity:All you are saying is hollw and out of sheer arrogance & ignorance.Any way suit yourself
@@jesusdeity2010 You said "christ, the exact image of the invisible God" Can't you see the IRONY in your statement?
@@jesusdeity2010 do you understand english?
The author is giving you such a clear picture of falsehood of the theory of Trinity & instead showing where he is wrong, you are blabbering your church's brainwashing.
Thanks!
Many thanks!
Could you describe how Unitarian worship GOD ? Do they stand (ittidal), bow (rukuk) and prostrate (sujud) like Jesus the son of Mary and all his predecessors did (Peace be upon them all)?
I'm a Unitarian I can't and don't speak for all Unitarians, I'm very much alone with my views my wife and family are definitely trinitarian. But on a personal level I stand to sing God's praises and bow and prostrate to pray to God.
You are such an intelligent and informative researcher...Mark my words and record it somewhere, you will be great in the eyes of Europe and world if only you rise to broadcast such powerful arguments...can I contact islamic tv on ur behalf?
Hello sir
May God bless you for all the information you share with us.
Thank you
Thanks and welcome
@@BloggingTheology Maybe you could try showing the Roman Catholic Trinity, you know the one that came out of the Council of Nicaea, not the Protestant Trinity next time?
Let me help you out, here. The Roman Catholic Church Trinity, WHICH SOME FOLK WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN A TRINITY, BELIEVE!!!
There is another understanding of the Trinity presented by the Roman Catholic Church.
In fact the Roman Catholic Church understanding of the Trinity has been unknowingly adopted by some folk who don't believe in a Trinity at all!
The following should be of particular interest to those who believe in One God, and do not believe in 'THE TRINITY'.
Check this out!
There are some One and only God believers that believe Jesus is just the only begotten Son of God.
They believe Jesus was BROUGHT FORTH FROM THE FATHER before anything was created.
And all things were given to Jesus, by INHERITANCE.
That is also what the Roman Catholic Church Trinity proclaims.
The Roman Catholic Church Trinity shows Jesus as being GENERATED BY THE FATHER, BEGOTTEN, if you will.
And the Holy Spirit?
Some One and Only God believers say, "The Holy Spirit is THE MIND OF CHRIST", and "is the SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST".
The Roman Catholic Church Trinity says.....
The Son "proceeds from the Father" and the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son."
In other words Father begets the Son, and since the Son proceeds from the Father, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, who was begotten of the Father.
source:
www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/explaining-the-trinity
The Catholic Trinity shows Jesus as being GENERATED BY THE FATHER, BEGOTTEN, and the Holy Spirit would not exist, WITHOUT the FATHER GENERATING JESUS!
So, there are some ONE AND ONLY GOD BELIEVERS, who have unknowingly bought into the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TRINITY, while claiming there is no TRINITY!
This critique you just referenced, Akhiy Paul, should have ended all belief in Christianity as a respectable Abrahamic religion. 😱
Agreed, I don’t know how anyone can believe in the trinity after reading the Bible, and this is coming from a revert Muslim that was raised Christian myself 😅
Christian was introduced to the gentiles to unite the empire. To make it appealing to the pagans, they were not required to circumcise, can drink wine and eat pork as compared to the original teaching of Jesus. The trinity was their pagan belief they still held dearly although not mentioned in their bible and later formed their mainstream belief.
@@jesusdeity2010 Christianity is dominated by Passion not Reason!
Hello, Thank you for your great videos, Question is the prophet Jesus Palestinian?
Well he definitely was not European, he was fairly dark skinned from the middle east countries.
According to the Vines Bible Dictionary, 1John 5:7 is an interpolation and can't be found in the earliest manuscripts prior to the 14th century A.D.
Pardon what is the name of the book
Enormous truth
The Hindu religion has a concept known as the "Trimurti," which in Sanksrit means "three forms" and which some describe as the "Hindu Trinity." This Trinity is not exactly the same as the Christian Trinity, which highlights an important point: there are as many ways to classify Divine pluralism as there are gods. Its more like analog than digital.
so what. ? .?
@@mooktarkader What do you mean "so what"? It means that the Christian Trinity is functionally identical to the Hindu one, neither of which can be accurately described as monotheistic.
@@hashemisbeautiful6615 incorrect
@@quaidwilburn9373 What do you mean?
The link of the book you red
Great talk! A little curious at the end where u say Paul that belief in ONE god was what Abraham, Moses and Jesus taught. But are we sure that Jesus is not to some degree responsible for the doctrine of the Trinity? It comes from his sayings in John's gospel primarily... the least historical as u say... but why would the writer(s) want to invent a Trinity... a Father/Mother, a Son and a Holy Spirit? The fact that this is open to such complications in worship is in itself reason to suspect that there may be truth in it! It would have been so much easier not to mention it at all... to keep it simple... just one Father or Mother! There may in fact be an element of mystery in the nature of God which we humans cannot comprehend. Why make it simple just because we humans like things to be simple? We may be missing out on the intensity of God's love for humanity if we make Jesus human only. We will not then know that so great was/is God's love for humans that He/She made part of Herself/Himself human, so as to know what is was like to be one of us! This is lost when we make Jesus only human. LOVE your work.
A good one but you need to read an equally good book on Trinity to give a balance view albeit Dale Tuggy himself gives makes a few statements in his book as you cite. Reference to Hundu Triad of Gods: Siva/Vishnu/Bhrara will be music to the ears of Indian readers/theologianscomplex
The plural use of the words (royal) 'US' or 'We' for 'Me' or 'I' is used to justify Trinity.
The trinity was one of the key points In the Council of Nicaea One of the points in which they were discussed.
On the topic of the silence of trinitarian controversy, what do think of the arguments by Christians who claim that the Jews of the time would have had a "plurality" view of the one God such as Bitarianism / Binitarianism(unsure of the proper spelling) and it was only after the advent of Christianity that they moved to a more unified oneness idea of God. To support their claim they say such a view is supported by history and scholarship on the subject.
Firstly, note what the Shema Yisrael says. For example, Mark 12:28-29: One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that Jesus had answered them well, asked him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord’.
There is no Trinity here. Or Binitarianism.
Secondly, no Jew ever in history (to my knowledge) taught or is recorded as believing that God is three infinite and equal persons each possessing supreme divinity, called the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
@@BloggingTheology Thank you for the reply. I only bring it up because Christian missionaries in my experience like to bring up this argument. See nabeel qureshi in his debate with shabir ally
czcams.com/video/FWpqqqZn7Kg/video.html
starting at 1:46:32 he uses this very same argument and cites a Jewish scholar who agrees with him. Note I'm not saying this a proof of the trinity, far from it! I only wanted to hear your thoughts on it and the supposed scholarship backing it.
@@VaqasARV3 "Note I'm not saying this a proof of the trinity" - precisely.
And that concludes the matter ;)
@@BloggingTheology lol well I suppose it does! I'm not a trinitarian so I don't think that "proof" is enough to outweigh the problems with the theology. Still would love to hear your thought on the supposed scholarship backing a Jewish binitarian view existing at the time of Jesus alayhis salam.
@@VaqasARV3 Jewish first century theology and praxis was certainly more diverse than is often supposed. Some views would be judged heretical by later rabbinic Judaism. If certain Jews expressed a binitarian view of the Divine it does not follow that it was expressing normative Judaism as understood by the sages and the Talmud. In orthodox Judaism God is one person, singular. This is most clearly articulated in the Book of Isaiah 40-55.
imagine an example: someone gives you a bottle wich contains some liquid inside and in one side of the bottle it is written "the liquid in this bottle is pure toxic,do not drink it" and in the other side of that same bottle its written "the liquid in this bottle is a healer of all diseases,drink it if you are ill" and you suffer from some sort of disesase, would you drink it???
The same example applies to the Trinity, there are clear verses that say that Jesus pbuh isnt a God.And, in the other side you base your Trinitarian doctrine in some verses that YOU think that they "prove" the trinity.Now, from the point i laid above is the New Testament 100% reliable to believe the trinity or you should belive the most certain that Jesus pbuh was the Messenger of God and nothing more.??!!
3 persons = 3 Gods
Think you Paul sir, the information you provide is extremely informative. Alhamdulilah. When we thank about Christianity with an open mind, it’s clear, Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the father being the first and the Holy Ghost the third. Each of these three persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the father and the son, but was equal to the father and the son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is the same age as the other two. It’s more confusing when the relationship of Jesus to Mary, for example, becomes almost too absurd. If he was born of Mary, she was his mother, She being with child by the Holy Ghost, as is stated in King James, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being one, she was his wife. God being the Father of all mankind and God and Christ being one, she was his daughter. She being the daughter of God and Jesus being son of God, she was also his sister. Or to take another example, by definition the son must not be younger than the Father, in which case they could not be equal. It is not difficult to comprehend, it is impossible to fathom When a person stop and really think about it. Thank you Sir Paul, you are helping us to think, those who can think. Alhamdulilah. There’s a book by Gerard Sigal....The Jew And Christian Missionary: A Jewish response to missionary Christianity. It is also a good book to read and have. I have us it to respond to Christian missionaries. Mr. Gerard Sigal quote verse’s directly from the Bible. The book is a forceful refutation of the doctrines and beliefs of fundamental Christian missionaries. A systematic examination is conducted of those biblical passages which the missionaries utilize to support their contention.
Uff... no way in the world can we understand such an unexplainable concept of the trinity. It is like they are trying too hard to hold on to the false belief.
💓
Paul I heard you say in your debate with Jay Dyer, if I remember right, that the New Testament does say Jesus is God so presumably you would disagree with your Unitarian commenter there? Also, re the Trinity, Jews already believed that both the Holy Spirit and the Father are divine, and there was a movement within 1st century Judaism that regarded the Son of Man as the divine-incarnate Messiah. That's why I asked you if you'd read Daniel Boyarin's Jewish Gospels book. Also, if the pagan critics of Christianity were used to a religion with a multiplicity of gods, they probably wouldn't have been hostile to the Christian religion on account of the multiple divine persons in it.
“Father(a metaphorical term for God rarely used is divine. Holy Spirit has many usages in rabbinical literature. You will be hard pressed to find something like a divine person for Holy Spirit in rabbinica. Boyarin’s book is an academic exercise and not always accurate. There was concept of divine messiah among many other messianic ideas and even denials. Critics of Boyarin allege that he ignores multiplicity of views in early Judaism. Moreover there were multiple Judaisms so its pointless to use this book as a means to give legitimacy to Christian theology. A case for Trinitarian origins possibly can be made with the Zohar(a work hated by conservative Christians). Nevertheless I respect Boyarin for his anti-zionism.
@@toviasaverstein639
"Holy Spirit has many usages in rabbinical literature."
Lmao who cares? All that matters is the OT says the Holy Spirit is divine. The Talmud has no theological authority in Christianity. Christian theological ideas and parallel ones can be found in literature far older than the Zohar, e.g., the Book of Enoch. And Alan Segal has written about the same pre-Christian Jewish ideas in Two Powers in Heaven. And Boyarin doesn't ignore other ideas in Judaism at all. If anything he's simply shining a light on ones that have been neglected. And it's not pointless to demonstrate the existence of such ideas in the defense of Christian theology because a common and fallacious argument made against the faith is that it's Trinitarian and christological ideas are a historically-late development, when in fact those ideas and their precursors were around before Christianity emerged.
@@ConsideringPhlebas (All that matters is the OT says the Holy Spirit is divine.) What matters to serious research is how “spirit” is used throughout the bible and other sources. There is no entity called “The Holy Spirit” in the OT. The two words “Holy Spirit” only appears 3 times and it never indicates a separate entity that is co-equal and eternal with God. Boyarin was heavily criticized by Peter Schafer for making a case for trinitarianism from bi-theism found in those sources.
(The Talmud has no theological authority in Christianity.)Obviously the Talmud is useless to you theologically as is the tent maker's epistles are for me. I mentioned Rabbinical writings for historical purpose in the same manner you use the said scholars. It is fallacious to dismiss Xtianity as a late development just as it is to accept it based on the premise that some Christian ideas existed among the many sects of early Judaism. History shows the development of many false theological ideas just as modern Judaism continues to produce false messiahs and deified persons.
@@toviasaverstein639
"There is no entity called “The Holy Spirit” in the OT. The two words “Holy Spirit” only appears 3 times and it never indicates a separate entity that is co-equal and eternal with God."
It's arguable whether the Holy Spirit in Christianity would be considered a separate entity from God, so the fact that the OT or Rabbinic writings consider it part of God and not a distinct entity isn't exactly a bomb shell.
But anyway, let's see what Rabbinic Judaism says.
"The Hebrew language phrase ruach ha-kodesh (Hebrew: רוח הקודש, "holy spirit" also transliterated ruacḥ ha-qodesh) is a term used in the Hebrew Bible and Jewish writings to refer to the spirit of YHWH (רוח יהוה).[17]"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit#Judaism
The fact that the specific phrase Holy Spirit only appears 3 times is somewhat irrelevant in light of the fact that it is the same entity/force as the Spirit of God/Yahweh, which appears throughout the Old Testament. It's clearly an important theological concept, both in the OT and NT, despite your attempt to minimize its significance.
A useful example of this identification (from Jewish sources) is how the Rabbinic Targum Jonathan translates a verse like Isaiah 40:13: "Who hath meted out the spirit of the LORD?"
מִי-תִכֵּן אֶת-רוּחַ, יְהוָה
מַן תַּקִין יַת רוּחַ קוּדְשָׁא
www.sefaria.org/Targum_Jonathan_on_Isaiah.40.13?lang=bi&with=Isaiah&lang2=en
The Rabbinic translator here interprets Ruach Yahweh/Spirit of God-Yahweh as Ruach Qudsha/Holy Spirit. I.e., they're one and the same.
I wonder what else we can find out about it from Rabbinic literature:
"The rabbinical understanding of the Holy Spirit has a certain degree of personification, but it remains, "a quality belonging to God, one of his attributes"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_in_Judaism#Rabbinic_literature
D:
If it's one of God's attributes, I imagine it must be eternal. Co-eternal, one might even say. Unless you think God changes and has a life cycle in which he develops new capacities and characteristics.
"What matters to serious research is how “spirit” is used throughout the bible and other sources."
Indeed, and it is acknowledged even from Rabbinic writings that the Holy Spirit is identified with the Spirit of God and is a distinct manifestation of God. I didn't say the Jewish understanding was identical to the Christian one, but I think that it's more similar than some might like to admit and it is certainly more similar to the Christian one than the Islamic one. I.e., that the Holy Spirit is not divine, but an angel.
Rabbinic and other Jewish writings, while not theologically authoritative for Christians, can still be used to demonstrate that the Christian understanding of OT theology is not some wide-of-the-mark idiosyncrasy. You may say, "Well who cares? The ideas could still be false and heretical." But for whatever reason, a lot of weight is attached to "debunking" Christian beliefs by claiming that they're historically late developments, rather than rooted in existing theological traditions, or that no-one else (I.e., Jews) shares them.
Could do with a more detailed examination, but in your own word - lots of work though.
Excellent overview. The fact that Paul doesn't mention the trinity or try to defend it in his letters is a devastating argument.
This clearly demonstrates that the concept of the trinity simply did not exist in the 1st Century.
12. Now we have received , not the sound spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might the things freely given to us by God, 13. which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 14. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15. But he who is spiritual appraises all things , yet he himself is appraised by no man
1 Corinthians 2: 12-15
You are using scripture which is corrupted Who wrote the bible. 40 different authors How can you quote from the bible when none of the disciples were able to read or write GO SEARCH for the TRUTH
The Testimony Of The Old Testament
The Old Testament leaves no doubt that there is only one God who exists. In the Ten Commandments, the following is written.
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit anyone who misuses his name (Exodus 20:3-7).
Moses emphasized that the Lord is the only God who exists.
To you it was shown so that you would acknowledge that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him . . . So acknowledge today and take to heart that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other (Deuteronomy 4:35,39)
Elsewhere he wrote.
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:4,5).
Samuel
In the First Samuel we read.
There is no one holy like the Lord, indeed, there is no one besides you, nor is there any rock like our God. Boast no more so very proudly (1 Samuel 2:2).
In Second Samuel it says.
For this reason you are great, O Lord God; for there is none like you, and there is no God besides you, according to all that we have heard with our ears (2 Samuel 7:22).
Psalms
The psalmist wrote.
Let them know that you, whose name is the LORD - that you alone are the Most High over all the earth (Psalm 83:18).
The psalmist also wrote.
For you are great and do marvelous deeds; you alone are God (Psalm 86:10).
Isaiah
The prophet Isaiah emphasized the oneness of God.
'Thus says the Lord,' the King of Israel, and his redeemer, the Lord of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last: besides me there is no God' (Isaiah 43:10).
He again emphasizes there is only one God.
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me' (Isaiah 44:6).
Again God says there is no one but him.
Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other (Isaiah 45:22).
These verses show that there is only one God who exists. Scripture speaks of false gods that other nations worshipped but they do not actually exist.
The Testimony Of The New Testament
The New Testament echoes the Old Testament - there is only one God who exists. In the gospels we read.
Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord (Mark 12:29).
A scribe appreciated this truth.
The scribe said to him, "Right, Teacher; you have truly stated that he is One, and there is no one else besides him" (Mark 12:32).
In another place Jesus said.
How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God? (John 5:44).
Again Jesus emphasized this truth when He prayed to God the Father.
This is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent (John 17:3).
Paul
The writings of Paul echo this truth.
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live (1 Corinthians 8:4-6).
Paul wrote to the Ephesians.
One God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all (Ephesians 4:6).
To Timothy Paul wrote about the only God.
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen (1 Timothy 1:17).
In the same letter he emphasized it again.
For there is one God (1 Timothy 2:5).
James
James wrote.
You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder (James 2:19).
It Is The Same God In Both Testaments
Not only does the New Testament recognize the existence of one God it recognizes the same God as revealed in the Old Testament. This is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - the God who brought the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt in the Exodus. Jesus said.
I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 8:11).
At no point in the New Testament is there any hint that there is any God who exists except the one who brought the children of Israel out of Egypt and gave the people the Law at Mt. Sinai. This is the same God who brought Jesus Christ back from the dead.
Summary
There are a number of statements in Scripture that make it clear that there is only one God who exists. From the first page until the last, the Scripture affirms that only one God has genuine existence. The false gods that Scripture speaks about have no substance. It is also evident that the God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament - the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. There is no hint that the God of the Old Testament is a different personage than the God of the New Testament. Hence the totality of Scripture testifies that only one God has real existence.
Search a learned man Abdul Hakim Murad. It was his lectures on Al Ghazali that gave me the insight I needed in order to convert.
A very wise man
Bob could you tell me the point you heard in that lecture, a summary at least.. and 3 or 4 points that made you attrracted to islam. thanks
@@sutil5078 That lecture series is really long and contains multiple lectures. It is not something I can summarise easily nor state as 3 or 4 points easily too. To give that a go; that it is all about living it and making the word flesh over dogmatic practice, that intent is very important. I follow most of the major faiths and believe there is wisdom in all of the ancient texts and the words of past prophets. The identities 'I am a Muslim, I am A Christian, I am a Jew' are no longer important to me. I just wish to be a slave to God and to serve him as best I can and, I pray, that also means I can serve humanity too and in a way that helps them survive this most important moment and that this golden age open to them, can be taken. Hope this helps.
that is what islam teach, the best of you are the best in manners, meaning being good to all.The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Allah Almighty says: in this hadith qudsi it shows how God is near and kind "Whoever comes with a good deed will have the reward of ten like it and even more. Whoever comes with an evil deed will be recompensed for one evil deed like it or he will be forgiven. Whoever draws close to me by the length of a hand, I will draw close to him by the length of an arm. Whoever draws close to me the by length of an arm, I will draw close to him by the length of a fathom. Whoever comes to me walking, I will come to him running. And whoever meets me with enough sins to fill the earth, not associating any idols with me, I will meet him with as much forgiveness.”
In a sense we are all double muslims, in the sense of submission like all other prophets and as followers of the last messenger. But In my case I can't endorse other believes when I know they associate deity beside Allah.
thanks for your reply.
@@sutil5078 thank you for sharing. As a child I resolved not to do or be out of a promise for a reward but because it would be the right thing to do, both true and good and for humanity's benefit. I spent a great deal of my life working it out for myself and was taught in life and through lived experience, over scripture and through 'teachers'. IT is wanting to serve, to improve and to be a better human in this life that I seek. The promise of reward, as I say, is a lesser aspect for me.
In your email you will find a picture of the two visitor stars next to the Sun as advertised on the Wadi el Hol inscription. Happened Feb 1, 2022. The blue one arrived Feb 27, 2010 advertised only by the Maule, Chile quake and what was called the Word of God or the Phoenix. A much bigger one (and volcanoes) are due in the next month or so. The little red star was expected to arrive Aug 23, 2015 per Genesis 49:10. The Pope and the Queen must have observed it in 2014, because both in their Christmas message recordings said "This might be humanity's last." We know where they were in Virgo at the cusp of Leo in 2017 because of Isaiah 7:14 and Revelation 12:1. So all we're waiting for now is the two ends of Apocalypse ... one of darkness and one of great light. If the ancients called it right (and if I interpreted correctly the stones), huge problems were expected between tomorrow (seriously) and October. Love your work! Miguel Servetus was also down on the Trinity.
Trinity is pretty Interesting i hope you make more videos About it!💛
*The Supernal Triad of the Kabbalah* is the source of the Trinity doctrine and not the Bible. It was populorized by *Philo of Alexandria* and adopted by the so called church fathers.
Now these *THREE are ONE,* KETHER - CHOKMAH - BINAH, and they form the first Triad of *the Tree of Life,* which is called the *SUPERNAL TRIAD.* The SECOND TRIAD was derived from this by REFLEXION, for as *these Three are One,* so this *"One-in-Three"* again reflected Itself, reversing as in a mirror. Thus we obtain *two further Sephiroth harmonized in a third.* www.spellsandmagic.org/supernal-triad/chapter-one.html
There are verses deliberately translated incorrectly to push this Babylonian three in one religion. That's why they have to use eisegesis and philosophy (which the Bible forbids Col 2:8) to explain away the obvious verses.
Trinitarians act like, there is a hidden message in Scripture about the identity of Jesus Christ. He is not the Son of God but actually Almighty God Himself. So the Trinitarians got the secret Gnosis and the rest is ignorant. Pure esoteric Babylonian mysticism mixed with Scripture.
*Trinity World has another Jesus.*
John 10:36 Say ye of him, *whom THE Father hath SANCTIFIED,* and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because *I said, I AM the Son of God?*
@@JudeOne3Four God is One in One !!!! Not 3 Gods in one
@@shaggyvillage6960 God is not One in One. Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: *The Lord OUR God is ONE LORD:*
And for sure not a pagan three-headed abomination from Babylon
If Jesus(pbuh) is part of a divine trinity which makes up the essence of God almighty,and Jesus(pbuh) died on the cross,then what happened to God almighty?(Remember,Christians claim that they pray to one“triune”god and not three separate gods).Did the trinity die?Did it continue to exist in a severely crippled form?
If I am made up of heart,mind,and soul,and one of them dies;what happens to the rest of me?Are they ONE or THREE?If God,Jesus,and the Holy Ghost are three names for the same being,(definition of the“trinity”required by Isaiah43:10-11 and many other verses and not three separate gods,then the“death ofJesus”is just another way of saying “the death of God the‘Father’,”which is also another way of saying“the death of the Holy Ghost.
trinity is Mentally pagan ..is not found in Tanak ( OT ) ..but in New testament
God ALMIGHTY...NEVER called ANYONE to be "of" ANY so called "religion"
God said, "BE YE HOLY..FOR I AM HOLY" ....
NOONE is called to be "of" any religion.
COME TO CHRIST.....ALL OF YOU & RECEIVE THE """GIFT""" OF ETERNAL LIFE!!!
Why they like to potray Jesus (Peace And Blessings be upon him ❤️) with a cross that they claim he was crucified...a cross that was made to make him and his followers suffer...while he never teach and ask his loyal disciple's to made it except the oppressor Kaisars empire's
You bring up an excellent point Paul about where in the Bible does it say that God is three persons. I don’t think the Bible ever refers to God as three persons. But it does speak of God in plural terms. Refer to the definition of the word Elohim and compare that with Eloha (singular term for God). Elohim is used more often in the Old Testament.
For years, historians are uncovering stashed away evidence of a prototype of Goddesses in Jerusalem and surrounding Canaan. Does Ashera ring a bell? It is documented that she was in Solomon’s temple. The Israelites had no problem acknowledging her existence. What they had issues with is her worship. So they removed her entirely.
In the Hadith We learn that had Allah knew us prior to our arrival as mortals on earth. Cross reference Jer 1:5 “before you were formed in the womb, I knew thee.”
Would that mean that Man and Woman have pre-existed in a spiritual form? Consider This Sura from the Quran about the Virgin Mary: O Mary! God has chosen you and purified you and again he has chosen you above all women of all nations of the worlds"
If she was chosen above all other women from the foundation of the world, then wouldn’t that make her divine in a way?
according to islam Mary is rightious woman, highly regarded as ideal of a woman in her time, few scholars even say she is sort of prophet because God inspired her, but the majority of scholars say she is was as Quran described her seddigah, but divinity in islam is only to Allah (Allaha in Aramaic). People have need to find intercessors between them and God, thinking subconciosuly that God is far far above and through help of other righteous men or women we can be heard, that is no true, God is closer to us than our Jugular vein as Quran stated, and
"And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided." Quran 2-186
prayer need to meet certain requirement though:
1. invoking God alone, Allah
2. just prayer, (not unfair curse this person when that person is not deserving)
3. realistic (fore example an old man saying God make me young again)
How God answer:
1. he may grant you the prayer if it is good for you and you are deserving it.
2. he may remove sins from you with that prayer
3. He may remove a hardship that was about to happen to you
4. He may save it for you in Judgement day, if it is not good for you (Please God let me marry this girl, but God may know that she would not be good for you.. or God I want to be rich, God knows maybe if he give you that you will be addicted to certain substances, or lose the way etc)
Scholars says from Islamic teaching that in Day of Judgement those "unanswered " prayers which were in life not suited for you.. God will compensate you so much that you would wish that God had never answered any of your prayer because the reward is so great.
Hope that help..
Please feel free to ask, or if you have a doubt, refutation etc. we can dialogue.
Have a nice day mormon Guru.
Mormon you asked "Would that mean that Man and Woman have pre-existed in a spiritual form? yes
I believe in spirit for how long, only God knows:
"And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Quran 7-172
This is the Fitrah that islam talks about, instinct to know God ingrained in us.
There is an old phislophical question which I word as follow:
Humans have never invented anything from SCRATCH, they only modify things. One may say, what about dragons? But it's a combination of crocodile and snake. How about cars? Well, it is made of plastic, metal, etc. from earth, So from where did humans come up with the idea of God? Islam and the Quran say it is Fitra, instinct, that at one moment God had ingrained in all of us that he is our lord.
PS: I forgot to to mention steps to increase one probability for his or her prayer answered:
1. if you pray with sincerity it is more likely to be answered
2. If you inisist praying many times
3. if you are prostrating while doing it
4. if you first praise God and send blessing on his prophets and last prophets.
5. state your prayer with strong faith that God will answer you.
But here is a prayer that will always be answerd:
"My creator Please guide me to your path, amin" why so?
Because of this this promise that God made in hadith Qudsi (special hadith worded by God and spoken by the prophet, that is why it start with Allah says) : ""Allah Almighty says: Whoever comes with a good deed will have the reward of ten like it and even more. Whoever comes with an evil deed will be recompensed for one evil deed like it or he will be forgiven. Whoever draws close to me by the length of a hand, I will draw close to him by the length of an arm. Whoever draws close to me the by length of an arm, I will draw close to him by the length of a fathom. Whoever comes to me walking, I will come to him running. And whoever meets me with enough sins to fill the earth, not associating any idols with me, I will meet him with as much forgiveness.” Muslim 2687
that is how God is loving and kind. Try to ask the Creator for guidance, and if you are sincere that you want to find his path, you will receive an answer in many different ways: a clear, vivid dream, or acquiring knowledge that makes your heart agree with the last message, or a strong, compelling desire to research Islam and or some subtle constant signs in your daily life to assure you. Just ask the Creator alone and you will be in tears of joy. So it is easy to verify if this promise is true or not.
God will answer you so that in that Day no one will have excuse that he asked God for guidance and did not receive it.. Allah is the Merciful and Just. May God give you guidance, light, wisdom, and paradise, and all of us ameen.
What is missing is an overview of all that matter and a logical boost. It is not appropriate for the almighty God to do his work now, in real time. The almighty God has already COMPLETED his work (but only from his point of view !!). "Completed" indeed means "completed in all respects", He could have been gone away! He didn't go away, He became like a man instead: "the Son of God" (with no power at all). This means that the Son is in reality now ALONE and is the only OWNER of everything. This all means that the almighty God cannot be here because He belongs to the past "The world has not known you". From that past God can be here only in the form of a spirit (NOBODY is here in reality). He is the Spirit of God.
Please explain John 1:1 “ In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was GOD”. Jesus Christ is from eternity and only God is from eternity. We did not add the Trinity rather we were forced into the belief of the triune God through the Bible. Read all of John as it decked into the divinity of Christ.
Blooging Theology?
ops! Well spootted ;)
@@BloggingTheology No issue, I thought perhaps it was some subtly intended humour. Nevertheless, keep up the good work, we’re all enjoying these ruminative presentations :)
Saw it 2nd time today. C S Lewis' advice in 'Mere Christianity' (6 hours audio book on youtube) is that you follow the formula which suits you best. I have no problem with Unitarian or Trinitarian or 'Communion of Saints' etc. Trinitarian is a higher level understanding of God thanks to the Ecumenical Councils ( Homo Ousios and Theotokos concepts). I love 'Communion of Saints' line/channel to heaven. Many a times, I found St Anthony very helpful to find lost things in a panic. Rosary is a powerful device to get things done through Mary's intercession. There is a patron Saint for cancer patients, scholars, etc. God is so kind and generous. In today's Sunday homily the young newly ordained priest said that Christians should be good ambassadors for Christianity.
Unitarians never give up, despite councils, despite deep contemplation, despite what the bible clearly sets out. God is one and there are three persons.
With out going into the arguments, what is clear is that there are various modes of expression in the scripture, historical, poetic, theological, metaphorical, analogical.
Any way why would you care Paul since you give clear precedence to the Koran? That book has a great argument with the trinity as you know better than most.
Dear Patrick See, you see it is great to debate about religions if only as an intellectual excerise and ultimately if it make you firm believer then fine, if you change to a better belief out of being convinced then that is great.. God in islam, and I believe in christianity, love us to ponder and reflect on his path.
Here is an example, According to the Gospel, in the baptism scene, John the Baptist (Yahya) pbuh, while baptizing Jesus, he supposedly heard a heavenly voice saying, "This is my Son with whom I am pleased." The passage says, The heavenly voice (aka God voice because it says "this is my son." Is it not an extraordinary account to hear God's blessed voice? If that happened to you, would you forget such an event? Would John the Baptist, a great prophet, forget such a unique miracle? Certainly not. Then why did John the Baptist later, when he was in prison, send men to ask Jesus who he was? In addition, Jesus said, "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified about Me. You have NEITHER heard His voice at ANY time, nor seen His form. " John 5-37. So according to Jesus, no one have heard the voice of God, so the heavenly voice was invention!
Rather, that passage with the heavenly voice is added by scribes, not a true account to deify Jesus. Instead, the Gospel says John, from prison, sent men to ask Jesus if he was the one or should they wait for another one. meaning ( is he the messiah, Jesus, or the LAST prophet, Muhammad pbuh). They knew from the Torah that there were 3 prophets to come after Moses, and now we know that they were Jesus, John the Baptist, and Muhammad, May peace be upon them all.
Dead saints story "Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. " (Matthew 27:51-53). Isn't that a tremendous miracle? So, why was this story only mentioned in Matthew's Gospel? There is no mention of it in the other three gospels. The majority of Christian scholars say it is not a true account and kindly call it "embellishment,"
One see the attempt to deify Jesus, even in the fig tree story, "12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it." Mark 11:12-14
Mark said he cursed the tree because "it was not the season for the fig", that part was deleted by Mathew and, Luke who Christian scholars said copied from Mark, to hide Jesus limitation.
God knows that we would not in.v.est 25% of our wealth on anonymous company, yet some believe in anonymous gospel writers whom christian scholars say they were, and not even eyewitness!! that is the most extreme gamble I have ever seen, but I respect your faith and literally have many chiristian friends.. just a thought
By God anyone who is sincere will see these attempts in these examples and there are more. Sir, thanks for your reading this. waiting for you take on it. peace
@@sutil5078 thank you for your reply and kind notes.
You are aware the New Testament books have multiple claims by Jesus that he is one with the father. I am unconvinced by your arguments however if you wish I can give you the references. These references are readily available even if you do a simple thing such as an internet search of Jesus claims to be god.
All brands of Islam are at pains to pains to paint Jesus as a mere prophet of God rather than one of the three persons of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Trinity and Jesus death on the cross to redeem mankind from their sins are the most essential of doctrines. The three persons are a sacred mystery and theological studies merely touch on its true nature.
The solitary arbitrary God of the Unitarian faiths misses out on the truth, beauty and wonder of the trinity. They also miss the saving power of Christs sacrifice on the cross.
Warlike insistence and aloofness of the almighty is a faulty theology. Rather God is love and Jesus commanded us to love God and love others as ourselves.
Kindest regards
@@patricksee10 thanks for your reply.
I see the prodigal son story as proof that God forgive without needing blood, and if he killed his son, it means that god is unable to forgive without killing someone, and if it is his supposed son, then he can't be loving, and the death lasted 2 days? did God die? if no then why they say God died for you if it is the human side who died. if God died then by definition God does not die. etc etc.. but I read your answer, in the end if we all sincere in wanting God (NOT putting traditions, family ties, mosque or church friends, etc above God truth and path) God will guide such people.
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Allah Almighty says: Whoever comes with a good deed will have the reward of ten like it and even more. Whoever comes with an evil deed will be recompensed for one evil deed like it or he will be forgiven. Whoever draws close to me by the length of a hand, I will draw close to him by the length of an arm. Whoever draws close to me the by length of an arm, I will draw close to him by the length of a fathom. Whoever comes to me walking, I will come to him running. And whoever meets me with enough sins to fill the earth, not associating any idols with me, I will meet him with as much forgiveness.” Muslim 2687 this God promise, if we get closer God by invoking him alone (1st commandment) he will show it to us through signs, and bring us closer to him and his right path.. it is easy to refute .. by just little prayer "God please guide me to your path, amin" if it said with sincerity the person will be in tears of joy when he recieve an answer, through clear vivid dream, and or acquiring knoweldge that make him certain which path to choose.. or find researching certain religion so compelling these are among the signs.
As for your point "Jesus is not a mere prophet" I always smile when I read that, you would not know what a true Muslim would give just to be 5% of a prophet.. let alone being a prophet, messenger, Messiah these are huge titles.. so to us it is not mere, a prophet is the highest form of human being..
but Patrik, Sir, this is said in spirit of debate, thank you for your time and reply, May God guide us all.
@@sutil5078 your response is very kind and considerate.
Peace, love and forgiveness is Gods way and Christs teaching even unto death at the hands of the Romans on the cross.
That is what pleases God, peace love and forgiveness
Dear Mr. See thank you, you are a kind man, i loved chating with you, if you need anything, doubt, question about my faith, or anything to talk about , please do, otherwise thanks and May God grant you Light, guidance, wisdom and your loved ones and me and all , amin. Have a nice day.
All of the deciple were Unitarian it was st Paul who established this theory .the original teachings and congregation of the deciple s went into the shadows in the course of time .st paul who was.an enemy of jesus became predominant and his version christianity evolved in Europe. So founder of christianity is paul not jesus.
waw
Trinity is for unthinking man
Trinity is one of the best Christian doctrines. It is very meaningful. Objections to this doctrine is understandable, but don't claim that you can disprove it with your Islamic or Unitarian perspective.
he quoted from a christian scholar. he is basically reading from a book written by a christian scholar
@@norulshahlamjohn1140 Is there only one Christian scholar in the whole world? By choosing just one book to build his views on the Trinity, Paul Williams shows his utter disregard for fairness and objectivity.
@@albertdevasahayam6781 dont change your words. u said paul can't disprove it with islamic or unitarian perspective. how so???
@@norulshahlamjohn1140 Please read my initial comment carefully. Let me reproduce them: "Trinity is one of the best Christian doctrines. It is very meaningful. Objections to this doctrine is understandable, but don't claim that you can disprove it with your Islamic or Unitarian perspective."
Did I mention the name of Paul anywhere? No. If you see a Paul, which Paul? May be Paul Williams but not the Apostle Paul.
@@albertdevasahayam6781 as per part of your initial comment: "..but dont claim you can disprove it with your islamic or unitarian perspective"
hence the question, which part of the video that makes u make this part of the statement?
It is a pity that EF Dawah haven't got you on with Ijaz critiquing the New Testament.
May i add that, the doctrine of trinity was unknown for Jesus' disciples. It was a later development doctrine insisted by Church and took for it shaped for almost 4 Century after Jesus.
A Neo orthodox theologian, Emil Brunner from Switzerland in his book The Christian Doctrine of God; Dogmatics, vol.1 (1950) p. 226 states;
"No Apostles would have dreamt of thinking that there are Three Divine Persons, whose mutual relations and paradoxial unity are beyond our understanding."
Revd Thomas Harpur a Canadian Anglican Priest even make "loud and clear" statement about these doctrine.
In his most popular and best seller book, For Christ's Sake (1986) p.11 he states;
'What is most embarrassing for the Church is the difficulty of proving any of these statements of dogma from the New Testament documents. You simply cannot find the doctrine of the Trinity set out anywhere in the Bible. St Paul has the highest view of Jesus' role and person, but nowhere does he call him God. Nor does Jesus himself anywhere explicitly claim to be the Second Person of the Trinity, wholly equal to his heavenly Father. As a pious Jew he would have been shocked and offended by such an idea."
Well, it is clear that even Paul never claim that Jesus was God.
I think one has to distinguish between Protestant Christianity which bases itself on _sola scriptura_ and _inerrancy_ and more ancient forms of Christianity (Orthodoxy and Catholicism) which do not. For Protestants in the Magisterial Reformation tradition the doctrine of the Trinity _has to be_ contained in scripture because of their presuppositions; but since the Orthodox and Catholics have a different set of presuppositions it does not have to be contained in scripture (at least not explicitly). Orthodox and Catholic allow for a _development_ of doctrine guided by the Holy Spirit in the Church. The doctrine of the Trinity did not emerge out of biblical exegesis so much as out of spiritual experience of salvation in Christ. The argument goes like this: Christ has saved us; only God saves; therefore Christ is God (in some sense). (The argument from the identity of operations). Channing discovered that if one reads the NT with Protestant presuppositions then it is very difficult to affirm the doctrine of the Trinity; but if one accepts as axiomatic that the church guided by the church is "the pillar and ground of the truth" then it follows that the doctrine is at least possible.
Yes you are quite right.
According to (Matt. 4:10) the only object of worship is God alone. This is also the message of Islam: see
Surah An-Nisa - 4:36 ''Worship Allah ˹alone˺ and associate none with Him.'' And yet worship is also an honor that Jesus receives from all rational creatures: human beings (Matt. 14:33), fallen angels (Phil. 2:10), and holy angels (Rev. 5:8-14). According to Hebrews 1:6, the God who commands people to worship him alone also commands the angels to worship Jesus. Angels tell men to “worship God” (Rev. 19:10; 22:9), but God tells angels to worship the Son. We see this most clearly in Hebrews 1:6, which reads, “And when he [God] brings the firstborn into the world, he says ‘Let all God’s angels worship him.’”
*The Supernal Triad of the Kabbalah* is the source of the Trinity doctrine and not the Bible. It was populorized by *Philo of Alexandria* and adopted by the so called church fathers.
Now these *THREE are ONE,* KETHER - CHOKMAH - BINAH, and they form the first Triad of *the Tree of Life,* which is called the *SUPERNAL TRIAD.* The SECOND TRIAD was derived from this by REFLEXION, for as *these Three are One,* so this *"One-in-Three"* again reflected Itself, reversing as in a mirror. Thus we obtain *two further Sephiroth harmonized in a third.* www.spellsandmagic.org/supernal-triad/chapter-one.html
There are verses deliberately translated incorrectly to push this Babylonian three in one religion. That's why they have to use eisegesis and philosophy (which the Bible forbids Col 2:8) to explain away the obvious verses.
Trinitarians act like, there is a hidden message in Scripture about the identity of Jesus Christ. He is not the Son of God but actually Almighty God Himself. So the Trinitarians got the secret Gnosis and the rest is ignorant. Pure esoteric Babylonian mysticism mixed with Scripture.
*Trinity World has another Jesus.*
John 10:36 Say ye of him, *whom THE Father hath SANCTIFIED,* and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because *I said, I AM the Son of God?*
Its adam not jesus in ur last verse. And they didnt worshiped him lol. Allah order the angel to bow to his perfect creation (adam) , as it considered higher than them. We humans are higher than angels if we do good and follow god, cuz of our free will. Idolatry is a big sin, himans arent in comparison with god. God is all powerfull
The three gods of the triad is not the God of us Jews.
When all is said and done, 1st commandment alone will condemn the
associators of idols beside the true God, they maybe asked on that day
"you knew that even your scholars they call it a mystery how could you
accept that" your real motives, prejudices will be evident.
All this to defend dead anonymous writers who invented lies and or did
not guard what they have been trusted (if they had access to Gospel
according to Jesus), they want to risk their eternity only to show their
loyalty to these anonymous writers. They don't even know their names.
we know they would not put 1/4th of your wealth on anonymous company
that invest in mysterious product, so Imagine What the Creator know
about their motives (to defend tradition, family ties, or friends or
job)
Jesus teach, that Father is only one God. On it depends everlasting life. John 17:3
Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand! Matthew 11:15.
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the
SON of God?
1 John 5:5.
NOT GOD OR A TRINITY, but as St john has said: but he that believeth that Jesus is the SON of God? 1 John 5:5.
And as Jesus has said: ETERNAL LIFE is believing His Father GOD is the only ONE TRUE GOD alone. John 17:3. Which is the FIRST commandment one MUST believe. Mark 12:29.
The Hebrew text of Deuteronomy 6:4 says: Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is ONE: (PERSON).
Hezekiah prayed before Yahweh, and said, "Yahweh, the God of Israel, who sit [above] the cherubim, YOU ARE THE GOD, EVEN YOU ALONE, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth. 2 Kings 19:15. World English Bible.
Job 23:13: BUT HE ALONE IS GOD, and who can oppose him? God does as he pleases. The HEBREW text actually says GOD IS :בְ֭אֶחָד ḇə-’e-ḥāḏ [UNIQUELY] ONE.
The real irony of Gentile Christianity is that the crystal clear statements of Jesus Christ about himself and Almighty God is not given priority instead total energy spend on ambiguous statements, only one statement is enough for any sane person to find the truth 'Hear, O Israel the Lord (OUR) God, the Lord is one'.
So what’s the logic of naming The Father “father” if He himself is “The son” ?
And the Holy Spirit???
Whatever they say it is still the same … they worship 3 gods but they are covering it by saying it is just one God manifested in 3 persons…
How God became His own son and own father is unthinkable and how jesus is God that is sitting 🪑 on the right hand of God is unimaginable… how can u even sit beside yourself is amazing 🤣😅
God is just One… He is Uniquely One and is perfect….
No dictionary will tell u that the noun “god” means a compound noun..
The perception of a Trinity is misconstrued by Christians, Jews and Muslims alike. Jews and Muslims criticize the misstatements made by Christians, in exposition of the doctrine, but doing so miss the point themselves.
so therefore: 1+1+1+=4 gods.
jesus + holyghost +father = god (3gods transformed into 1 god)
The most reasonable Trinty explanation is given by ex Qadiyani Nabeel Quraishy who says" three persons and single entity"
Just like Christianty is an entity and it is one but you see millions of christians.
So God can have more than 3 also, millions and millions of persons but they're one god.
This is idolatry!! Every christian has his own way to interpret the concept of the trinity.
I hope you are preparing to make even more excellent videos, such as this one. Have you read Nabeel Qureshi's book ''Seeking Allah Finding Jesus''? as well as Dr. James White's ''The Forgotten Trinity'''? Could you make videos on those books as well?
Thanks. I haven’t those books. I tend to read books by mainstream scholars.
@@BloggingTheology What is the strongest proof that convinces you that the doctrine of the Trinity is contradictory to the monotheism of Jesus?
@@franciscollins18 the doctrin of the trinity and what jesus taught are completely contradictory, that's basic
@@franciscollins18 Shema Yisrael. For example, Mark 12:28-29 (NASB): One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that Jesus had answered them well, asked him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord’
@@BloggingTheology The passage of Deuteronomy 6: 4 does not preclude a multi-personal ontology of God. Furthermore, in the doctrine of the Trinity, the nature is singular. Hence, the term ''echad'', which means ''one'' in Hebrew (used in Mark 12: 28-29 from Deuteronomy 6:4) is easily accommodated by the Trinity as referring to the nature of God and not as a proof for exclusivity of person-hood.
The reason why we don’t find any Trinitarian controversies in the Apostolic age is simply because no one came to challenge the Trinity at that point, this seems to be an argument of silence from Dale Tuggy who is as Christian as a Qadiani or Alawite is a Muslim and if we read the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers we find the Trinity all over their writings. The Son and Holy Spirit derive their glory from the Father, any devotion given to them is devotion to the Father, any devotion given to the Father is devotion given to the Son, all devotion is triad is in Orthodox Christian theology. Mary the Theotokos and the Saints aren’t a divine pantheon in any sense, they are creatures who pray to God for us just as your friend prays for you on earth and we see this belief in places like Revelation 5:8.
True, Unitarians are a bunch of wallies who should at least have the decency to admit that wherever they get their theology, it's not the NT.
THAT IS STUPID.
The basic building block of matter - the atom, provides a perfect example of Trinity. It is composed of three parts; electron, proton and neutron and yet it is one atom. Each moves independent to one another but still compose the atom. Even water have three phases; solid, liquid, and gas. The universe have space, time, and matter. There are three's everywhere. It is one of Gods perfect number. So, why should it be impossible for the Creator to be one God with three persons - Trinity? Besides it is what the Bible shows although not apparently. The Holy Spirit that hovered over the waters in Genesis, the Angel (Messenger) of the Lord which visited Abraham is the Son and God the Father the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are One.
THAT is stupid
Electrons protons and nutrons are all 3 distinct different things that make up an Atom. Water can only be 1 thing at a time not all 3 phases at the same time.
The (Trinitarians) shall die in their sins.
The (Trinity) is not only a vain, idle, perverse, corrupt, word of confusion and the word is not only not found in the book of the LORD'S holy scriptures, but the doctrine of the (Trinity) is also a lie, a doctrine of devils and damnable heresy.
Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
2Peters 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
Jesus is the only wise God and Saviour, the blessed and only Potentate, the Almighty and he is known by many names. God is a Spirit, a Holy Spirit and when he was manifested in the flesh he was known as the Son of God and the Son of man.
The (he) that was manifested to take away our sins in 1John 3:5 is the (Father) in 1John 3 line 1:
1John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Jesus is the Father, the everlasting Father, the Almighty:
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
1John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
1Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
Dividing the unity of God is idolatry
Jesus is God
Then why did he say: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
@@BloggingTheology Because he was in the form of a man. Father and Son are one and have the same name. It was the Son who drove Adam and Eve out of paradise. The book of Genesis proves that God is in two persons.
@@-.George. beautiful explanation sir. but do u have any biblical evidence to support your explanation?
@@norulshahlamjohn1140 John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
@@-.George. so your are saying that the verse "before Abraham was I am" means he has the same name? and it also means he drove Adam and Eve from Paradise? that is way off from the statement itself
Thanks!
Many thanks!