Sunkko 709AD Spot Welder Welding Pen Upgrade, Extra 100A+!
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- čas přidán 1. 12. 2018
- I got tired of the welding pen that came with my Sunkko 709AD overheating and upgraded! The new wiring electrodes feature 4 AWG cable and 6 AWG electrodes. The result was an additional 100A or more, depending on settings!
WARNING: Lithium batteries are dangerous and can result in fire! This video is NOT intended to be instructional or a "how-to" lesson. I am not a professional. Do not attempt anything you see here without first contacting a certified and/or licensed professional.
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I love the upgrade, Mike! I need to do that for my 110 version, I'm that will still be a significant improvement. I have the same problem with the pen overheating before the internal fan would even kick on for the whole unit.
Thanks for the video, couple years ago I built a 7p8s 26650 24v pack for a power chair, I made my own 'spot welder' using jumper cables, a shop quality battery charger, and a 72 series battery, so I was getting about 13v 800A or so thru a pencil sized rod of copper - two handing it, ground probe to push down then I'd strike it with the hot lead - I started out with them rigged up through a broom handle piece - it was a learning process lol... Revisiting it now, two years later as I was rebuilding the battery pack (8 cells of 56 had gone high resistance) I got one of the sunkko spot welders to help with rebuilding it. I found it to be sightly anemic for the thicker nickel I had - works fine with the thinner strips that usually get used for 18650s - I'm probably going to investigate doing something to milk some more current out of it
Good mod and solid proof of improvment!
Thanks for watching :)
Another great idea!
This video was a great help. Thank you!
One great idea will try it on my 787
What a great upgrade - bet there are dozens of people out there that will copy that idea - maybe this would have worked for my 787unit i gave away :(
There is a lot of loss in those crappy cables it comes with...!
Interesting video. I made the german kit version and it works well off a battery. A few comments, electrons flow in the outside of a conductor and so the wire you are critical of with all the strands is by far the best conductor there. Keeping the overall resistance is critical for best performance. Reducing the thickness by half of the wire is not good. Using relatively thin solid copper is not as good as thicker rod for the electrodes. It is easier to drill a bigger hole in the back of thicker rod and solder in the copper multi strand wire. Each joint with a crimp will have copper oxide on the wire and crimp and increase resistance, consider a light crimp or no crimp and solder in addition. Copper plumbing pipe which is work hardened when extruded can be used for joints. Heat it in a gas flame and quench it in cold water. It becomes very soft and can be cut cross wise and longitudinally to give whatever size you need for a crimp. It can ce flared easily by hand using the taper on th end of a screwdriver or similar. resoftening maybe needed halfway. If you can measure very low resistances the success of these alterations can be compared. The length of the wire is also a factor as it has a small resistance. Each area of resistance such as a joint will cause local heating and loss of current. My electrodes are like yours but the copper is thicker. I place them on the strip and touch a foot pedal. It works well. The guys with poorly performing machines should be concentrating I think on the output side not the transformer as I run mine quite happily on a 12 volt high quality lithium battery from Hobby King.
If the wire of the transformer is the same gauge for the bottom and mounted leads, I would do this to the bottom since the mounted ones still come in handy. Heck, after looking at the solder to the transformer I may just run a new wire with better solder.
I know this is old, but you can just use both top and bottom set of wires at once. It will act as if you doubled the size of wire. No doubling in voltage or amps, but huge decrease in resistance... which may help a little with amps.
Thank you for sharing. Can I upgrade my SUNKO 788H to that long cord welding pen style?
please thanks for u video but what standard Amp with timer in spot welding ?
Just decided to buy one of these to try out. Any advice?
instead of crimping will soldering works to join the connector together? i am thinking to replace the wires for my sunkko pen to the same wire ur using here.
Hi, I bought a 737G spot welding machine and it doesn't have enough power at all for 0.2mm nickel. I tried to replace the bigger transformer and the new secondary winding wiring, but the same result. does the electronics comfort so much reduce the current in the primary winding?
I'm not familiar with the 737G. I have never used one but have heard a lot of complaints from others about it being under-powered, even for 0.15mm. I would see if you can return it and buy a 709AD or even a kWeld, for welding 0.2mm.
i like the hydraulic press, i found one, thanks for the video
A hydraulic crimper is definitely a great investment :) They weren't that pricey either.
Great idea! How many welds can you do with your self built electrodes until they are hot? I bought the 788H and want to do something similar...
It does still get hot after a while. I can get through just over half a side of a 300p pack. I'd estimate 200 cells and with 2 welds per cell, that's 400 welds. At that point, it's to hot to hold and needs to cool off. I think I could improve better by using better crimps on the electrodes. I'll bet that's where most of the heat comes from.
Nice job.
The pack of matches made my day lol.
Ha, yeah I still like using matches for wiring heat shrink. The heat gun I have for 18650 shrinks doesn't get hot enough for wire heat shrink.
Nice upgrade, I have a vent cooler, different than yours but very efficient... There's any fb or any way we can show and discuss this?
Did you have a specific question that I can answer here?
amaizing, just what I was looking for, thank you
What thickness of nickel strip are you using? I've done a similar modification but used welding connectors. I've tried welding pure nickel strip 0.2mm and it welds to a piece of steel, but doesn't weld to the battery. Was hoping this modification would allow my 709A to finally weld 0.2mm strips.
I'm using 0.15mm nickel strips. Unfortunately, I don't have any 0.2mm to try.
Looks like I have a mod to do on my Sunkko, great video!
9:49 Hi friend, you are shorting the aluminum part of your tool, aluminum has higher resistance than cooper, this is not a great reading.
But i believe yours are way more efficient since they are all copper.
Interesting, I haven't considered that. You are correct!
well, it's definitely a budget product, but i'm happy to have it, and glad that my 110 unit works just barely well enough to reliably weld 18650's. I double tap in the same spot twice, and do two spots (4 burn marks) per cell. all 3 pulse buttons on, and current turned up all the way. i hear the 240v is better, and that's what i ordered, but the idiots sent me a 110 because i had it shipped to america.. at least it works until i can get an industrial unit.
I was afraid of that happening too. Most eBay listings I looked at said like "120v 240v" in the title. I was confused and started contacting each seller. None of them would ship a 240v to the US. The sellers on aliexpress are much more willing to work with you. I asked ahead of time and made sure she knew I wanted the 240v version before I placed the order :)
Did u re wire to 220v
@@jasperhart1188 Nope. could not. stuck with 120. it pops the breaker often and I have the largest one I can in that circuit. I have given up on using the spot welder. I still use the unit for the temp controlled soldering iron that comes integrated. but when that gives up, it will go to scrap. not buying another Chinese spot welder. I solder my 18650 cells now and with better results anyway. not worth it to but this junk
Hello,
Can I use single core multistrand 16sqmm cable instead of welding cable?
Any wire will transfer the electricity just fine. The more strands it has, the more flexible it will be. I used welding cable because the strands are very fine, making it super flexible, and has a higher temp insulation rating. I think it was rated for 105C, can't remember offhand.
just to note you are using pure copper for the electrodes which will probably stick more than the copper/aluminium alloy that the electrodes are made from (which apparently sticks less and doesnt oxidise) think its aluminium bronze, its a bit more expensive and harder to find than pure copper but i found an 8mm dia 100mm piece im gonna try like this4
Interesting. I figured pure copper would be best. They do stick from time to time. Do you have any heavy duty alloy electrodes you'd recommend trying? I'm about to start another 14s300p battery bank that needs welding so it would be great to replace them ahead of time if that would help.
What is the voltage open circuit of your tansformer? Thanks for the video.
I don't have a way to accurately measure that unfortunately. The pulse only lasts for a split second.
@@LithiumSolar Thanks.
How is it holding now since this video?..I want to try this mods on my existing 709ad….planning to totally change the cable to a 4guage and a buy a heavy duty pen to lower resistance thus increasing current,..could the controller transistor and other components hold?..thanks for the video..
Hi friend. I want time période of the welding pulse and the voltage output. Thanks for the video.
How are you supposed to change the welding pins on this model? I used a pair of pliers to pull mine out, true maximum effort, and they wouldn't budge.
I only changed mine once in the stock pen. I didn't have any trouble. I grabbed the pin with a pair of channel-lock pliers and twisted it back and forth, they came right out.
1:00 You say it pushes air forwards and backwards, how does that work as I can't see any vents at the front or back?
It has an 80mm fan that moves quite a bit of air. You can see it at 1:50.
@@LithiumSolar Sorry I can't see where that shows the exhaust vents at the front and back of the hand held welding tool.
Increasing the current by lower resistance of electrodes and increasing the length of the electrodes will also increase the inductive kickback that comes back to the relay after the pulse. May not be a huge issue at currents as low as 600A, but it also depends on quality of components used in the welder. A much higher quality welder, like kweld that costs $200 just for circuit board, can withstand 2J, so about 6 feet of cabling at 1500A pulse. Not sure how long these chinese welders will last, but electrode length and inductive kickback is something to keep an eye on. This is why welding pens sold with these welders are usually very short.
I have welded tens of thousands of batteries since owning this welder. If I knew about the kWeld when I was in the market for a welder, I would have definitely gone that route...
I have been wondering what spot welder to get I see a lot for sale but so many bad reviews I guess the problems that many have is they are using the 120v version. Apparently the problem is the welding transformer they chose to use in the 120V version. I guess I will just have to buy the 220 volt version and plug it in to a dedicated 240 volt outlet like you did. I thought of another idea and that would be to simply replace the too small power transformer that is in the 120 volt version and just use a modified microwave transformer and replace it to get the higher amps. This might be a better option for those that already own the 120 volt version.
It's like any other Chinese product unfortunately. There are good and bad. If you choose to go with Sunkko, make sure it's the 709AD 220V model. The 709AD 110V model is no good (see my other videos) and other Sunkko models like the cheaper 787 don't work well either. The 709AD 220V is perfect.
Do u think upgrading the foot pedal would increase the power?
BOOOOOM💥💥💥Awesome Mod!!!🖒
Thanks! And thanks for the idea!
How do you guys do so that your breaker doesn't pop all the time?
I am running it on a dedicated 20A 240V breaker. I don't have any issues whatsoever... What kind of circuit are you running it on that's popping breakers?
Where did you get the crimper?
This is the crimper I bought ebay.to/2KS31zw I'll add it to the description as well :)
Thinking of buying this spot welder. How has it held up since this video? Is it still good? Thanks!
The Sunkko 709AD 240V still works fantastic. I've welded tends of thousands of cells with it at this point. There are better options on the market today though. If I were buying a spot welder again, I'd probably look at the kWeld. It has much higher power without the need for modifications.
@@LithiumSolar sweet! Also one last question. How many more times have you had to rebuild your leads?
@@Bloodofmyshxdow I haven't replaced anything since this video. The tips tend to get a bit rounded after a lot of welding (thousand or two cells if I had to guess), but they're back to perfect again after a minute or two of filing with a handheld file.
When you crush your spice between the die halves you loose much of the integrity of the splice. Much better to tighten partway then loosen and rotate a flat and crimp some more.
What are they called the piece at the end of the wire
do you like the arduino malectrics spotwelder?
I never used one to be able to compare the two. I was thinking of buying one until I fitted the Sunkko with custom electrodes and saw it now works perfectly fine.
@@LithiumSolar well i bought one and it works great no 240v to worry about
Does anyone know if this upgrade will be able to spot weld 0.15 nickel plated brass on top of 0.1mm pure copper sheet?
Also I'm struggling to find the copper butt connectors :/
For the splices, just search Amazon for "bare copper butt splice" - there are dozens of listings. I'm not sure on the brass/copper question though unfortunately.
nice!! 💪 👷🏻
A very good job as usual! Well done. Couldn't you simply remove the plastic handle and insulate the original cables? I also have a 709AD, if I have the same heating problem you know I'll be thinking about you LOL :D jes
Hi is there a reason you did not use the outside holes?
Yes. The wiring behind it is thin and there is less resistance, which means more current, to clamp directly to the source :)
Might need to dial back on the settings to stop the electrodes from sticking to the nickel strip.
It wasn't sticking with less current. Maybe I need higher pulse combined with less current? I need to play with the settings more.
@@LithiumSolar just need to switch to the copper/tungsten alloy on the electrodes at the higher amps.
Great tip. I am gonna do this to my welder. Stock leads are not adequate for production. This should work much better. I was thinking about doing this as soon as I melted my handle on the first battery, and if it would make a difference. Now I know its worth my time to do! Thanks for the proof!
Bit of a longshot, but I'll try. Any chance you know how to change the copper electrodes on these spot welding pens ? I can't seem to figure it out
The tips just pull straight out with pliers. You should have received a few extra tips in the box of accessories (at least I did).
@@LithiumSolar Oh, I was afraid I'd damage something. Thanks a lot for a quick reply. Cheers!
are you on 120V outlet?
No. This is the 240v version of the 709AD. Don't buy the 120V version - it's not designed properly.
I am not sure what happens with my mod. The only difference is my unit is the 787 and it does not have the pen option terminals and that my solid copper is 4 awg vs the slightly smaller one used by OP. I am getting way less amp and barely dent the nickel strip.
Hmm, now that I think about it. The 3/8 copper tube was oxidised on the outside but that should not have any impact. However, the solid copper rod was slightly oxidised so it may reduce the conductance. I have to remove it and sand it down to a shine and try again.
I wonder if my ghetto crimping is good enough. I just used a ratchet wrench (no fancy hydraulic crimper with die) and crimp down the middle.
I answered it myself. After cleaning off the oxidation, I was able to weld like normally. I don't have an ampmeter so I can tell if I am getting better power but it seems to well 0.15 strips well.
I was wonder if anyone know of a point on the circuit board where I can get a steady 10-12V 300mA DC. I was looking to power a 120mm fan which I've added to the 788 (corrected from previous comment). Right now I have a separate transformer to power the fan.
I know this was just a test but is there any safety risk to having two separate electrodes? What happens if you slip and short them with your hands?
The voltage is extremely low, that's how they get the amps so high. I don't know what would happen if you grabbed the electrodes with your bare hands while not pressing them on metal. I wouldn't advise trying that... It's no different than the pen they provide, they just give you a plastic handle, you could still slip. I will probably heat shrink them down further towards the tip. Also, I will note the Aurdino and KWeld both have the same style of electrodes. I'm not sure I answered your actual question, but those are my thoughts :)
@@LithiumSolar a couple zip ties with a spacer to get the tip distance correct and a T handle just as a bit of extra protection and something to push down with and you are good to go. It would probably take a perfect storm to actually do any damage with the low voltage.
Interesting.
Just did 1400 weldings, not super-fast and a quick quality check every 60 spots, it's a 709AD+. After the job the pen was only just warm, not even hot. Set at 6P and current at 5. I tried going faster (around 3 spots every 2" plus 1" to move forward and it did get warmer, but I still stopped every 60 spots for a quick check and had no heating problems). Maybe you go super-fast with no pauses...
What thickness and metal type strip were you using?
@@LithiumSolar nickel strip 0.12
have u tried pure nickel 0.20 or 0.15mm ?
I'm using 0.15mm. I have not tried 0.20mm.
LithiumSolar pure nickel?
@@ee-sj8qr Yes, 0.15mm pure nickel strip.
@@LithiumSolar cool are u able to weld continuously without it being overheating? I'm facing the issue of the welding pen overheating if I were to spot weld continuously without stopping.
??
Why can’t we buy a spot welder? We don’t have to modify can anybody answer that question
There are plenty of options these days. This was bought back when the market was still new for home use (non-professional) battery welders.
I have a 788+ which I have not been very impressed with. Can anyone comment on the difference between the model in this video and the 788? And also do you think this mod might significantly improve the 788?
I can't comment on the differences, but it doesn't look like the 788 has a welding pen? Are you just using the front terminals?
@@LithiumSolar that's correct no front terminals but I see no reason why I couldn't add them and do away with the existing terminals
Great video. I bought a a pair of welding pens for my 788. The pens have lugs on them so, my idea was to just use the screws on the front prongs to attach them rather than remove the entire holder. However, plan B awaits.
Did you buy the same pens? (probes?)
@@e-bikerbulgaria did you buy the same orange probes? Have you been happy with the 788? I have found it to be under-powered (or i am using it wrong..)
now that made me laugh, ive never seen someone heat shrink with matches :)
That's how it's been done for YEARS before heat guns became cheap and readily-available. Lol
What u considering to buy other than this one, i just know kweld(i think this one need to resamble yourself)also not found any in my area on ecommerce
If I know now what I did back then, I would just buy a kWeld and not the Sunkko. I'm not personally familiar with any others than these two.
What u consider learning from ,for beginner no knowledge about batteries ,solarpanel,scc and etc
Did you know that if you remove the hardware on front of the two welding arms, that you can then plug the welding pen directly into the main welding arms of the machine.
Yes, but there is nowhere near good enough contact
Welder gold?
Why not just replace the wire going into the back of the welding pen with 4 gauge solid core and crimp the welding cable to that?
Now just get out the hot snot gun and gooey up where those two wires pass through the front plate. That way you won't have to worry about possibly tugging on them by accident and causing snagging on the connections inside. Like you said, the wires inside are not solidly connected to the transformer.
Maybe that can be a future upgrade mod as well 😉
I ziptied it to the frame inside so you can't accidentally pull it out. I didn't film it because it was an afterthought as I was putting it back together.
@@LithiumSolar Nah, needs the snot. Make it look like it's got a runny noise 😜
Snap ring. :)
YES! That's what I was trying to think of. Lol
Brother, you are a God sent Holy person. Indeed you are, why? Because, you inspired me to perform the similar procedure to the DEAD SUNKKO 788H, (That was thrown away in junk) which is now a full fledged spot welder with higher current and and the weld very strong. I had to length the cable, exactly like you did 4AWG silicone cable and used copper tube to join both the transformer cable and the silicone 4AWG (reds) and crimped with the hydraulic crimper, that made the connection very sold. Bless you man, for inspiring me.
After this unit dies you can just replace the transformer with a modified microwave transformer[as seen on CZcams!]. I know yours looks good but for $240 I'll save my money and build another microwave welder,they work for spot welding 18650's just great! Oh yeah..... Checkout Jehu Garcia [on CZcams] for info and excellent deals on lithium batteries! Keep making these great videos!!!!!
If I were to redo the spot-welder thing, I would buy the Arduino spot welder from the start, not the Sunkko. Live and learn...
Cutting 4ga down to 6 hurt my soul.
Why not attack that awful solder job on the transformer side?
It's likely the current is only going down a few strands of that wire because of its poor electrical attachment... and thus a major contributor to the heating you're seeing.
Or upgrade all the wire. That's not a long piece there.
It's depressing how cheaply Sunkko made these.
I can already see myself gutting everything but the transformer and maybe the top pedal switch. Alas, employer will only let me buy off Amazon... ridiculous.
Fixing or replacing the transformer would have been best. I didn't want to rip it apart that much though. Maybe if I ever open it again, I'll at least redo the transformer soldering. It is sad. For an extra $20 or so at Chinese prices/labor, they could have a a MUCH better device.
What happens if you touch those electrodes and short yourself with 600Amps going through your body from one hand to another?
Best go google how many volts you need to overcome body resistance bud
Do u think upgrading the foot pedal would also increase power??