Are True Crime Makeup Channels Problematic?
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2022
- Today, we're going to be looking at the new trend of True Crime Makeup channels. Some people think this is wrong and others don't care at all. Let's go!
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I like how Bailey is focusing more on historical cases and events with her dark history podcast. I don't think it's appropriate for her to cover cases that happened in recent years without permission from the families. Kendall Rae is a true crime CZcamsr who often collaborates with families in order to draw attention to neglected/ cold cases, and I really respect her channel for that.
i love dark history, i think she does a great job making sure it's very tasteful
exactly. alot of other true crime makeup gurus, they seem to just hop on this "trend" while disrespecting these cases and being like "and then it was said he had killed himself 😔, also I'm using Anastasia Beverly hills eyebrow pomade in the shade beige 😌"
Agreed. I really like Bailey, she does a good job.
kendall is amazing
As a person whose family is Indigenous, I wasn't a fan of how her residential schools video was apparently monetized. There are people my age who survived residential schools, it shouldn't be something people make money off of.
One thing i remember form Bailey is that someone asked her if she’s considered “themed makeup” for each murder and she said she already felt a bit off doing makeup and themed makeup for murders was completely over the line and disrespectful.
lol for feeling a bit off she’s perfectly fine milking it.
Oh so she even admits it’s really weird but just keeps doing it anyway? That makes it worse actually
@@Realdaele she said she just do it to have something to do with her hands while she talks
@@Realdaele The person in question was asking if she would think about doing a themed look for each murder. If you watch her videos, she doesn’t do themed looks. In October, she does Halloween costume looks but those aren’t related to the cases that she discusses. She’s doing her makeup while talking about the cases to have something to do with her hands.
@@kirayoung5006 "she said she already felt a bit off doing makeup" so she has admitted make-up true crime videos are weird but does it anyway, that's what i was pointing out. I don't care what kind of make-up looks she does in her videos, all of it is weird. I beg you to read back your own comment and think about how insane it is that she does "halloween looks" while discussing actual real life crimes where actual people were killed.
Heres my opinions on it all:
-active cases are completely off limits imo
-cold cases require more nuance, eg. how long ago was it, what happened etc
-historical, and solved cases are fair game, but still be respectful.
-Facts should be the focus
-Dont introduce new conspiracy theories (especially about family), but discussing existing ones (how they came about etc) is ok sometimes.
-If you can get family permission, thats the best, but if cant and someone asks you to remove it, do so straight away.
Why do active cases have to be off limits though? If they are mainstream ones that everyone knows about then I agree. Extra exposure to active cases that not many people are talking about can really help with exposure and awareness leading to more tips if people share the video. This can be beneficial to investigations. Also as for "conspiracy theories" they are okay and necessary as long as they have some evidence to back them up as a possibility. It helps add more facts to the case when you look at all the different possibilities. Unfortunately theories about families are warranted because a lot of victims are killed by people who are closest to them. You can't just leave something like that out. Especially if there is abuse. I don't agree with people harassing family members like we do see when there is still reasonable doubt they are innocent. It's a very complex topic as Nick said himself. A lot of factors to the ethics of it all.
Public knowledge is public knowledge why should people not be allowed to talk about active cases or need to get permission?
Agree with almost all of these but if someone can't get family permission, I don't think they should make the video at all
@@zahza2707 after cases are done it becomes public knowledge, if the family doesn't want the information released they can go to court and have it withheld from the public. If they don't do that they have given implied permission to use their stories.
active cases aren't always publicized. sometimes a case is active and not many people know about it. it's more important than EVER that true crime channels cover those cases when they're active!!
My brother was murdered and a few true crime channels have covered his case without contacting my family. We really don't have a problem with people talking about it as long as long as they don't spread around personal stuff, make a ton of money off of it, or be disrespectful by speculating on him or us and talking about casual stuff. I don't want to get into too much detail abt the type of stuff the videos have but a few of them have had mobile game sponsorships and like what the hell?? Maybe if they donated the money from the sponsorships to charities that help victims and families but the ones I saw were 100% for profit. Some of the true crime videos I've seen have been tasteful and well done but the majority are wildly disrespectful.
Also, I definitely like the idea of donating funds the creator has collected to give to the affected family 💜
i'm so sorry to you and your family for the loss of your brother & for having to deal with this shit on top of that. i find the "as long as they're XYZ" narrative that nick shares to be very odd because, like in your example, these people are putting content before people, and oftentimes are speculating about family/intimate relationships of the ppl grieving for the purpose of adding twists or whatever. it's really disgusting, and im sorry that you've been personally affected by that :((
My condolences.
lol
hope you're doing okay
I think the execution of the makeup versus true crime narration is the biggest factor in whether it’s problematic or not. If the content is taken seriously, and isn’t played off as gossip, or drama, or some casual story the creator came upon, then the makeup is just to have a visual on screen that isn’t graphic or triggering content. Somewhat like commentary youtubers playing speedpaints under their commentary. It all depends on execution. And some people may get bad vibes from the makeup during the narration (I do a lot of the time,) and that’s a matter of personal preference.
One channel I love that talks about semi-serious topics while doing makeup is Fundie Fridays, who will do her makeup on lighter videos, and use plain facecam if the content is much more serious. I think that’s a better balance of tone.
Fundie Fridays is so good!
Bailey has said she only does the makeup because she would feel awkward and give us something to look at aswell. She doesn't talk much about makeup during the video and when she does it seems like she squeezes it in spots that it doesn't feel disrespectful
It's interesting that ppl are hung up on the makeup part. If someone was making pottery or painting while discussing this would it be different? For many, makeup is part of a mundane routine, something part of professional and everyday presentation like wearing shoes, but that's what ppl are saying makes this as "not taking it seriously".
And then there's the question on who can even talk about true crime and whether it should be talked about at all on social media. Is it okay when it's not for profit? Who do you focus on when discussing the crimes?
@@TheElectricitychick Excellent point! I didn’t even think about comparing it to other on-screen activities in that way. The channels where it’s literally just “I put on makeup and talk about this” aren’t part of the problem to me. I think a lot of people are using the Bailey channel shown at the beginning as an example of that sort of content. When it starts to head into what I guess is “social media makeup culture” style of speaking / joking / editing is when I start to wonder about the ethics of it. It’s definitely a gray area, which makes for great conversation / analysis :0
Fellow fundie fridays fan here!
I used to consume all times of true crime content. Then my uncle was murdered, and videos of the aftermath were put on the evening news. Facebook comments on news articles were laughing and making jokes about our neighbourhood. I can’t express the anger and sadness I felt. I cannot imagine if I had to listen to people speculate, made up dumb conspiracy theories, and generally monetise his death as if it was just some kooky stories for months, let alone decades or years.
Since then, it has really really changed my perspective on consuming true crime and I find it really difficult to see people, especially if they’re promoting wild and dangerous conspiracy theories like with Gabi Petito, minimise these stories and the victims.
I very rarely consume true crime now, and if I do it’s not about serious crimes like murder - or it’s an investigative piece criticising the actions of police, larger societal issues like domestic violence and so on.
I'm very sorry for your loss. Experiencing something like that from such a personal perspective must have been awful. I guess part of what makes true crime easy to consume is the detachment we have regarding the people involved (apart from the basic empathy we may feel), so well, yeah when we actually experience it firsthand? It becomes much more real and, and raw. I'm sorry you-- and everyone else that has suffered a similar thing-- have to go through all that. We love stories, but we should reeeally reconsider how we handle and consume true crime cases. Like, real people were involved. Real people, with feelings and loved ones, and all of them deserve respect.
Thank you for sharing your story u.u
I hope soon we can change how we approach cases like this assgdhfgj
Thank you for sharing this perspective. It can be hard to put yourself in the shoes of the victim and how harmful discourse about cases can be. You're incredibly brave for speaking out and I'm so sorry your family had to go through such a tragedy.
i'm sorry for your loss. your perspective is the exact thing i feared would happen with the 'boom' of true crime obsession. I've always found most true crime 'creators' to be distasteful with the way they act when telling these stories so I've always stayed away from it.
I always thought this. They open up videos saying they’re excited to get into the case and talk about twists and turns, but like o think they forget that they’re talking about real people. Real people with family and friends that are watching and seeing their once private life out on a CZcams channel that is paying for some random girls house. Not to mention ongoing investigation…they put all sorts of speculation out and often point fingers at people who end up being innocent, but they are forever swarmed with hate.
I hate it lol I hate true crime videos
With Bailey, I really feel less weird about the makeup thing because she’s actually a professional makeup artist, and the only reason she’s doing it is because she wanted to do something while talking about the case and it makes perfect sense that she chose makeup
she could use a stress ball or something, i need something to do with my hands is not an excuse. Putting makeup on while talking about death and murder and the likes is just wrong. Shes also not very respectful with her thumbnails nor is she respectful when shes trying to make her little jokes in the middle of the video.
this is the most bullshit justification ive ever heard.
@@mayw2140 she doesn’t even need a justification lol she can do what she wants
@@robgillan2493 not everyone likes to play with toys like you.
@@robgillan2493 it’s just death dude
I feel like this is more of a "True Crime" issue and not necessarily a "True crime - Makeup" issue. It seems we've agreed they do their research and treat it respectfully - so then what makes them different from a regular true crime channel? I don't get why the true crime makeup channels are getting flack for this.
exactly 💯
I don't see the matched energy for true crime speed drawing channels
hmn, well personally it just feels disrespectful because they're pulling away the focus from the case / the victim. to me, it feels morbid to see people talk about actual human beings while doing something as insignificant as their make-up or mukbang. when i watch true crime, i want the focus to be on the fact that people had to die in such a tragic way because someone else was capable of doing that to them. i totally agree that True Crime COULD be the issue in itself, but i think there's always a certain way to go about something. personally, i enjoy analysis videos if murderers / serial killers, but i would never watch the videos without paying a certain amount of time thinking about their victims and 'grieving' for them. there are alot of amazing shows out there that have family members tell you about their lost ones so emotionally that it takes me weeks to stop thinking about them like i actually knew them. so i genuinly don't think True Crime itself is the issue. as Nick said, it always depends on the case. however, something about these concepts will never feel right to me and i don't think i can ever see it as anything else than mocking the victims.
@@aaa-9399 but you’re just arguing semantics really and that doesn’t get anywhere. If “true crime-makeup” channels are a problem then all true crime content should be a problem. It’s not like they’re doing a tutorial on their makeup and talking about it in the same breath as they’re talking about the case. It’s 100% about the case. A lot of the times they even have a fundraiser on the videos or donate to charity. They create true crime content just like any one else who does but in a different way. You can’t really police that.
@@aaa-9399 I personally find it no different than just telling your friend a story. If it’s something you find interesting and research, you might be out to dinner eating while you tell a buddy about the recent true crime case. People discuss it all the time in casual situations. I have talked about true crime with a few friends in a hot tub. It’s a conversation topic because people find it interesting. She’s just doing something to keep her busy and she is a Makeup artist. I fidget while in serious or intentional conversations. But that’s just me
@@Artemis25_ THIS is the issue with true crime make up channels. You just said what the issue is. It is so NOT like telling a friend a story lol. It should not be that way. The fact that real murders with real victims are discussed so causally on the internet as if its a story-time video is insane and horribly unethical. It's making a tragedy into a causal discussion. That is also a big part of why some other true crime content is unethical. Talking to friends or family about true crime stories that you heard in a causal way is okay. Talking casually about true crime stories on a PUBLIC PLATFORM is NOT okay. There needs to be some formality about the way you present the information. Would you discuss a true crime story the same way with your friend as you would with a person from the victim's family? Probably not. True crime in media (YT, Netflix, news, etc.) needs a special type of delivery and presentation that is NOT casual and NOT flippant. Many of these true crime makeup videos are VERY casual and flippant. Some documentaries are too casual and flippant. It isn't about the make-up in the videos. The make-up isn't the biggest issue in this situation. It's the casual nature of the presentation and delivery of the information. Delivering information while doing your make-up is inherently casual. There is a way to delivery true crime information respectfully while doing your make-up, but many of these YT channels are not delivering the information respectfully. Everything public figures (celebrities, politicians, youtubers, etc.) say and do online has a HUGE impact, whether you see it or not. If a public figure speaks casually about a murder, then it gives off the impression that this public figure see this murder as a casual situation, as opposed to a violent crime, thus giving off very big "disrespect" vibes. Murder is not just a "conversation topic" and the fact that you think of it as just that is a huge indicator of why this true crime ethics debate is happening. Some topics (weather, animals, friends, vacations, etc.) are casual. Some topics (murder, true crime, violence, violations, etc.) can be casual OR serious depending on the situation. Public discussion of murder, true crime, violence, violations, etc. needs to be serious and respectful, while the private discussion of it can be casual. This is the issue. People who are not personally affected by true crime sometimes see true crime as a "conversation topic". It is far more serious than that and speaking about it publicly requires more delicate delivery than speaking about it to a friend requires.
I admit it's weird for them to be like "this is sponsored by better help 😁" and then describe a brutal murder
even when betterhelp has had huge scandals in the past
especially knowing that the company has to approve the vid the ad is going to be in 😬
true true but do you analyze the commercials in-between serious shows on tv? If that makes sense lol
@@bulelwashezi4540 You should. Companies buy slots during specific shows, knowing you're going to be in certain emotional state when you see them
@@bulelwashezi4540 I don't analyze the commercials because I'm blinded by hatred and disgust everytime I see one
I was JUST talking about this with my friend. The only channel I watch is Kendall Rae. Because she covers cases that families have requested so the cases will get more of a chance of getting solved, since they didn’t get much coverage elsewhere, and her donating as well.
just some suggestions if you're interested (or feel free to ignore): Danelle Hallan, Stephanie Harlowe, Rachel Shannon, and Georgia Marie all also sometimes cover cases that family has reached out to them and asked them to talk about, and that aren't the same disgustingly sensationalized serial killers over and over. It's nice when families are involved because then you know there's no harm in putting out content bc it won't hurt those who knew the victims and is spreading awareness for the case :)
I was JUST BARELY about to comment this. Kendall seems to take the cases very seriously and is always most focused on giving them the attention they need.
i also appreciate that shes asked by families of victims to cover these cases and interviews them when possible
Kendall Rae is a liar
Keep seeing Kendall’s name pop up in the comments, I think she’s a pretty unanimous example of respectful true crime!
i’ve watch bailey for awhile now- and tbh i’ve never even thought it was weird. bailey does a ton of research including hiring someone to help her. idk if it’s unethical- all of these cases are public information; but once a family member comes out with saying they don’t want it out, a creator should take that and delete it
I’ve been watching Bailey for a while now and from the very beginning she has made sure that the audience knows how much she respects the victims and their families. She said that she’s always had an interest in true crime but she feels weird just talking about it and it helps to be doing something with her hands. As someone who struggles with confrontation and difficult conversations I completely understand. This stuff is very intense and I think it’s good to be aware of things that happen but sometimes you need something to help distract you from the darkness and the pain.
This is just my opinion feel free to disagree :)
she treats these cases like gossip
If she respected them, she wouldn’t do makeup while talking about them..
@@vannessagarcia4158 I understand why you think that, but she doesn’t take this cases lightly just because she puts on makeup. That isn’t fair to say. She just wants to combine two of her hobbies, she most definitely isn’t making light of the situation.
While I personally don't find the make up disrespectful but her laughing about these murders and as someone said treating the situations like gossip
She always makes jokes about the murders and that is just so disrespectful and probably horrible for the families of these victims
@@gracesmelodysone of her hobbies is exploiting another persons murder? Right
I have to pose one question; would it still be considered disrespectful or “weird” if it was a time-lapse video of something else besides makeup? Nobody seems to mind true crime with digital art.
Exactly! Whether it's unconscious bias or not, I think the fact we're having this discussion about true crime make up channels (a category dominated by women and feminine aesthetics) is not an accident.
@@sarah-faithtihngang6984 while thats a little true, i also feel like anything else other than art (eating, working out, joking between sentences etc) would be seen as weird too just on the basis of "are they taking this seriously or just profitting off tragedy?"
@@sarah-faithtihngang6984 no??? True crime is just dominated by women. The discussion has very little to do with the fact that makeup is dominated by women so to even acknowledge it is ridiculous.
imo yes, it still would be. i believe true crime is a topic that needs to be given the speakers full attention in order to do it justice and also not feel like a cash grab.
I saw one where they made cookies while talking about true crime
I think it's more disrespectful when huge production companies talk about true crime and they have so much unnecessary editing to make it feel "scary". They're the ones REALLY trying to capitalize on the misfortune of the victims in the stories.
Hard agree. Adding creepy music & scary language is more traumatizing than someone stating the facts while also putting makeup on
yessssss .. individual creators are much more respectful in every aspect that those company made doc series
Agreed
I rarely ever watch official documentaries anymore because of this exact thing. They dramatise the case and twist the words of family members and friends of the victim. It’s awful
Bailey is the person who originally put the two genres together. She’s said before that the makeup is pretty much just to keep her hands busy as she tells the story. I watched her because I love her style of storytelling, I never have really watched the makeup. But I love that she can represent those two interests simultaneously. I don’t think that just because she’s doing makeup that the content is less serious or taken less seriously. It just grounds it and facilitates it, at least the way she does it.
Tbh, I don’t mind seeing CZcamsrs doing makeup, showing a video game play through, or drawing while talking about true crime or other serious topics. One thing I find annoying and somewhat disrespectful is when some people put out obnoxious, creepy sound effects and music to make the whole case sound like a mere horror story instead.
As someone who’s loved one was murdered by a serial killer, my opinion is that I don’t give a fuck who talks about it as long as what they are saying is accurate and isn’t sensationalized. The criticism about people profiting never made much sense to me. So many people profit along the way when it comes to violent crime - lawyers, law enforcement, journalists, etc. It just doesn’t feel valid. When I compare someone like Bailey’s approach to the constant harassment we faced from journalists when Bruce McArthur was first arrested, I would much prefer the former. Nobody bats an eye over news networks making shitloads of money off of crime, CZcams is just new and has a wider reach among younger demographics so it’s easier to feel uncomfortable with the ethics.
I am sorry for your loss. I'm sorry that you have this connection to this topic. I hadn't considered that these channels are still streets ahead of mainstream media when it comes to respecting the families... I still don't like them but the perspective is appreciated.
Oh yeah, people love to attack TC youtubers, but no one talks about the hordes of journalists stalking the families to try to get a comment.
@@xXluluchanelXx Thank you for your condolences. I just think that this is something a lot of people who criticize this genre don’t consider. As I said in another comment, everybody tries to get a piece of the action when these things are actively happening and families are often victimized terribly, so at the end of the day the woman sitting in front of a camera talking about it is honestly the least of any of my worries. I could care less and I doubt I’m the only one in a situation like this who feels that way
@@camibvaz exactly
for me mukbang ones are the worst like yeah lets talk about horrifying murders while i eat this huge burger. it doesnt feel right to me
how can they even talk while eating? lol
And the food takes up more than half the thumbnail
I've clicked on a few of Stephanie Soo's true crime mukbangs mainly just to read the comments and she seems WAY too happy to be talking about people's brutal deaths
totally agree. while some of these makeup ones are weird it's not on the same level at all as the mukbang ones. i don't think anything can get worse than that
@@emilyh6619 and the one where she didn’t know how to say the victim’s name
a true-crime channel i really enjoy is hailey elizabeth:) she is super respectful and in a lot of her older videos she would do her makeup while talking, but as of recently she doesn't do that anymore and puts her full attention into presenting the case. i truly love her videos and (as previously mentioned) she is respectful of the victims and their families. she also never included the murder's name in the title of the video and always uses the victims name etc. go check her out!
I'll check her out! I also recommend Kendall Rae
Same! I've loved haily for awhile and I'm glad to see someone else say about her here too
she pronounces so many words wrong and its so annoying hahaha
I consume all types of true crime content, including Bailey Sarian.
I always wonder why people decide to pick on people like Bailey when there are literal tv networks centered around shows about people being murdered, and feature tons of private and embarrassing information about the victim. Can we (everyone on CZcams) at least be consistent in our criticism and also talk about why these networks are/aren’t a part of the problem?
i personally have a problem with bailey and a couple other CZcamsrs because they sometimes speak trivially and make jokes about the killers and victims. i remember once she said something "and he was a Scorpio, we know how we feel about Scorpios" and since then i avoid her because she gives me an ick
@@brutus3631 I hear and respect that
Coz we are on CZcams???
@@hyperpink True Crime content transcends just CZcams
@@Alex8grade yes but people on CZcams are going to talk about CZcams true crime because its the platform they use
A couple of pet peeves of mine from true crime channels:
1. Covering recent cases- especially if it’s something that’s trending on social media
2. Speculation on the killers mental illnesses- it’s never ok to diagnose someone that you don’t know and it’s not fair to people with DID, schizophrenia and other personality disorders (yes this includes narcissistic personality disorder)
Seeing people cover the Gabby Petito case made my skin crawl
@@ajknight8640 omg exactly- it felt like everyone was jumping on it just bc it was popular
literally ok the diagnosis thing ill often seen people try and theorize as to why the killer did it and be like oh well they probably had (insert demonized mental illness here) and the fact these people absolutely are not well versed in these disorders often shows they just associate it with "serial killer behavior"
if the family gave permission for the case to be talked about then it could help if there's false information being spread but for speculating on mental illness or using the case for views would be a problem
Who cares about murderers
personally i enjoy baileys content, but i very much understand why people feel weird about this content.
Same
agreed
I understand why people would be not love it, but Bailey has always seemed respectful to me
Honestly the first time I saw her channel in my recommended it really threw me off. Her thumbnail had pictures of Jeffrey Dahmer and slap bang in the middle was her makeup look. It just seemed so inappropriate that I can’t engage with her content at all lol
I think it's super gross lol. Imagine family members watching this girl slap on her foundation while babbling about their loved one's horrific murder
To be completely honest, I think the reason that true crime is so relevant today is that women especially are brought up to be incredibly scared of everyone we meet, and listening to crime makes us feel better because it gives our fears an outlet
We're not brought up to be scared but this world is just a generally dangerous place for us.
I don’t really see how adding makeup as just a visual component for an true crime video makes it any more ethically questionable than true crime content is already.
Exactly if you hate true crime ok, but like don't make it make upset fault
@@xxcallmeniaxx3272 what
@@Lifewithlayyy_ but don't make it the make-ups fault is what they meant.
Imagine your parents or loved ones were murdered and someone made a video with their own face being the main focus of the thumbnail, monetized the video to make money off of it and did makeup while casually discussing the brutal murder, seems so insensitive and wrong…
@@vannessagarcia4158 exactly my thoughts!!!! It's so weird that people like this kind of stuff..
the mixed opinions in nick’s comments are honestly one of the best parts nick’s channel created, everyone can express their opinions here and everyone is taken seriously with mutual respect
This!
Agree
unless their opinion is openly sexist or something, then we deal with it. Otherwise, I do feel respected here for my opinion and I'm glad others do too.
i disagree. this opinion sucks.
I agree. I disagree with many of the arguments made because they just cause issues far worse. But I feel like I can share my opinions here because people are respectful of dissenting opinions.
elenore neale is such a good true crime creator. she’s so respectful and the videos are really interesting and she doesn’t do makeup or eat while talking about the stories
Yeah, i like her videos so much
I love her videos
Yes! She's so respectful to the victims, I absolutely love her.
also coffeehouse crime! at every end of his video he talks about the victims which I love! he is extremely respectful and I recommend him 💗.
im bit disapointed when she accpeted sponsorship from betterhelp tho
I really want to push learning about the victims and survivors instead of the killer-especially the ones that kick ass! I cant imagine being close to someone who was killed and having their abuser be talked about in depth while their name was only mentioned. These victims get stripped down to just being victims and are seen through the lenses of such an awful person. I hope these channels use their platform to spread awareness and support for victims and their loved ones.
Bella Fiori is a really good true crime CZcamsr. You can tell how much research she puts into every video and she doesn't do her makeup whilst telling the story. Also Danelle Hallan, she works a lot of the time with the families of the victims
The only "true crime" channel that bothers me is 'Anna Solves', (Anna oop's true crime channel). It bothers me because, Anna is known for being disingenuous and fabricating the topics talked about. I find it gross that she profits off tragedies, whilst occasionally using obnoxious slang. It seems insensitive..like, she doesn't seem to respect victims and people involved in cases.
wtf? i had no idea anna oop had a true crime channel, gross
I couldn't stand the way she talks on her regular channel so I can't imagine how much of a train wreck her true crime videos would be
she also will be like “a 12 year old girl was beheaded on tiktok live… THIS VIDEO IS SPONSORED BY HELLO FRESH!”
Anna Solves isn’t a person, the channel is run by a company as a content farm. Petty Paige has good videos about their multiple channels. They’ve picked up on how lucrative true crime content currently is.
The worst part is “Anna” isn’t a person, it’s a corporation doing this.
as someone who’s lost a family member to murder, i recommend eleanor neale, georgia marie, brooke makenna, and danelle hallan. they are my favorites because of how respectful they are in their presentation and consideration for the families. kendall rae has definitely gotten better in regards to not sensationalizing the cases she covers, and she is now very respectful to the families, but i worry that her use of music and other effects in older videos was a bit disrespectful
Those are my favorites as well. Stephanie Harlowe is another favorite of mine, just because how respectful she is and really defends and humanizes the victims and shows the story in a factual manner
I like Eleanor Neale, Stephanie Harlow, Hailey Elizabeth, and Kendall Rae
Kendall Rae is the best one. She gives back to the actual families and even has them in her videos. She’s incredible
Effects??
coffeehouse crime is a good one. he always shows massive amounts of respect to the victims and their families. arrin stoner is also amazing, he works tirelessly to help solve unsolved murder cases.
i really like what one person in your chat said, and that was, “it’s a grey area, cuz who are we to decide what’s respectful and what’s not?” i agree with that for sure. i think if it came down to it, the family/loved ones of the victims should have the final say on what’s respectful and what’s not. as for bailey, i mean, im definitely biased because i love her sm, her personality, and while yes she does use tongue in cheek type sayings and titles, i dunno, i don’t think she’d purposely make light of anyones pain or trauma. that being said, i also feel like the criticism she receives is valid. i’m ambivalent for sure.
i loved pinelys video on the matter, really made me do a think on the kind of content i consume, and how i feel about it. i’m shocked that kirstie has a crim degree, yet says the kind of things she says on her channel, and allows the kinds of comments on her videos that she does. some are really fckn disturbing, and if it were me, i’d delete them for sure. but also not stoke so much sympathy for some of the perpetrators.
Honestly Danielle Kirsty is my guilty pleasure youtuber. Yeah, I'm not a fan of the astrology comments but its always just one very small throw away comment that no one takes seriously at all. I really like how Danielle will tell us as much about the victims life as possible, usually (seemingly) quoting their loved ones from eulogies. I also really like how Danielle will always tell us about any fundraisers/charities that stemmed from the crime. I think the people targeting specifically true crime makeup videos are a little weird. It feels like there's a lot of (most likely unconscious) sexism in it, bc I don't see anyone talking about people who do digital art/etc while telling stories like this and it is exactly the same thing. These kind of videos are basically podcasts, and maybe some people just have a hard time sitting still in front of a camera or just simply don't want to. I am a fidgety person and I know I'd need something to do with my hands personally.
Edit to add: I also really don't see how small creators making youtube videos is any different than the true crime stuff I've seen on cable television. Chris Hanson, for example, has always come off as this gross exploitative person yet no one really says anything negative about him (unless maybe if you followed the onision coverage) and i think he adds the same amount of "drama"/entertainment factor to his videos as these youtubers, who are getting picked apart for it.
She is also my guilty pleasure. I believe she is very respectful.
@@OopsieImSorry I'm in agreement I think she does her research well and the make up is just a visual thing I don't think it makes it any more or less ethical than when Eleanor neal or kendal rae do it. Who both I love
I think there's at the very least something really fascinating about the discussion around this topic and the ethics of it, after I made my video about it, it was really interesting reading into the wide range of opinions about this topic
I watched your video, and I thought it was really well done. I still remember that true crime youtuber (the astrology one that nick saw in this video) being just awful, and I was like, holy crap, she's making this woman who killed two people out to be the victim! Like, stop it, get some help
hes not a man, he's a box! @blech
I just commented about the Stephanie Soo video which I became aware of because of your channel and your video! But I was horrified at seeing a true crime mukbang and how much they were laughing giggling and talking mostly about the food. That one felt particularly disrespectful. Love your videos tho!
It's interesting that ppl are hung up on the makeup part. If someone was making pottery or painting while discussing this would it be different? For many, makeup is part of a mundane routine, something part of professional and everyday presentation like wearing shoes, but that's what ppl are saying makes this as "not taking it seriously".
And then there's the question on who can even talk about true crime and whether it should be talked about at all on social media. Is it okay when it's not for profit? Who do you focus on when discussing the crimes?
It's also one of the few ways women are validated in the ways in which we are preyed upon by men, which is why I think so many women gravitate toward it
if someone was doing pottery or juggling, it would still feel strange.
I haven't heard that this is problematic but I have heard the families of victims speak out against documentaries that are on Netflix made against their wishes. Side note: I've lost my cousin to people who were supposed to be his friends but killed him just to rob him. I'd love if someone who did Murder, Mystery, and Makeup covered that story because it was a gruesome disgusting murder that didn't even get much attention locally. I think they really only cover mainstream cases.
My condolences to your family, coffeehouse crime kinda talks about many cases that not a lot of people know about maybe try to reach out to him! I love his vids bc he gives the victims more coverage and respect than the killers. Which is so needed.
I’m so sorry for your loss. Betrayal is disgusting. Kendall Rae does a lot of videos with the family of victims. I think you should try to reach out to her
Two kids I went to high school with murdered a girl I went to hs with that my brother was friends with (Sarah Stern case). Bailey Sarian did a video on it and I’m a huge fan of hers so I watched. I will say it was very strange to watch and I could see how people would find it disrespectful. My brother didn’t like how she explained things. But I agree, it’s good to get the story out. And people like Bailey make it extremely digestible which even though it can come off as disrespectful, it can be really helpful for someone who doesn’t necessarily want to hear gruesome details or creepy background music or whatever, and rather hear it put into simple terms
@@vanillakilla64 The victim and killer should be talked about equally because they are both very important in the crime case, it shouldn’t be one sided, that’s very ignorant
@@queenofhorror29 lol girl bye. I said he gives victims more coverage and respect , as in he actually talks about the victims. News outlets never go in depth about victims like they do killers.
After seeing everyone’s opinions, I genuinely just wanna know what people think is the acceptable format to present this topic. I see these creators (the respectful ones) doing their makeup as a way to do something with their hands while talking, and for most of them, makeup is something they’re passionate about other than true crime. To me, it makes sense to combine two passions. Plus, it helps lighten the mood to not have dark, macabre imagery edited in. However, I don’t see at all how discussing a true crime case in good taste is suddenly high school gossip when the element of makeup is added in. Makeup doesn’t automatically equal high school girls having a fun little kiki, that just feels way too stereotypical. If we can’t talk about these topics while doing a mundane task like makeup (as long as it’s respectful to the victims and their families) then how else can we talk about it? There are definitely creators like Kendall Rae and Danelle Hallan who make excellent content just sitting in front of the camera and talking, but for a lot of people, me included, makeup is visual stimulation and that is what allows you to stay engaged with the material. And I mean, what’s better; editing in SpOoKy pictures and music and ACTUALLY sensationalizing the topic, or having a discussion? Not to mention, when us viewers are discussing these cases with friends and family, it’s most likely going to be more casual than a deeply serious discussion, so imo it just feels a bit hypocritical to hold people who do their speaking to a camera to a higher standard. But I still can definitely see the other side of that specific argument, because as very prevalent figures in social media they do need to be held responsible to some extent of how they present sensitive subjects that could have real life ramifications if it gets back to victims families. I just don’t think we should ostracize them if they’re doing it in good taste.
Wow I wrote an actual essay. Sorry I’m vv passionate about this :’)
Tl;dr: makeup not (inherently) bad
i don’t think it’s a coincidence a female dominated industry is under fire for “not taking things seriously” let’s have everyone criticizing these creators take a look at their internal misogyny
@@hayleym7869 awful take. It would be just as disrespectful for a man to work on his car while discussing true crime (if not more)
completely agree‼️
This is the comment we needed
@@hayleym7869 this !! I hate playing the misogyny card but idk something feels off to me
I think it's very weird that people think doing makeup is strange when Buzzfeed Unsolved was doing straight up recreations of the murders.
I dont agree with either lol
Buzzffed unsolved talked about old cases mostly no?
@@fahda7400 yes they do
I think they’re both weird
buzzfeed usually talked about cases from like a 100 years ago
If we're being real, there's no easy way to discuss murder and the makeup aspect seems like a way to keep their hands busy and give viewers something easy to look at. Personally I can only ever listen to true crime or watch something innocuous on screen. Because after a while I get unsettled looking at pictures and such. I can see why people might think it's weird or exploitative but I think it comes down to how it's discussed and if the person discussing it is in general respectful and they're not glorifying murderers
Yeah and I think it also makes it easier to digest and gets the story more widely known because people are more willing to watch it. As much I love Kendall Rae, her videos make me extremely depressed and keep me up at night. Watching her wasn’t good for my mental health at all. I still love true crime though so I rather watch people like Stephanie Soo to stay informed but sane lol
@Csodaszarvas thank you!!! like they dont know how it feels, so its chill to them.
@Csodaszarvas true.
I mean yeah, but true crime isn’t even supposed to be entertaining for us.. you’re SUPPOSED to be disturbed, you’re SUPPOSED to be scared, because that’s what murder is- disturbing and scary. The fact you’re saying you like their vids cause it’s “easier to hear and look at” just proves the point that they aren’t being as respectful as they could be. That’s just my opinion tho lol
@Csodaszarvas It's true It's not about the viewer but if they're making the content they have to choose how the present to their audience. I only follow 2 true crime based channels so I don't really know what the scene is like but the other channel I watch uses the cases to point out red flags and such, so their is a certain value in these cases for people who aren't connected. I do empathize with the victims and their families but I'm also grateful for the things I've learned from watching true crime videos. That's just my experience though
Bailey has been shifting her videos to a focus on history, which I'm really into. I like to watch her videos because I, like many women, am interested in true crime and she covers it very respectfully and factually. But I do think she deserves credit for the fact that she seems to be evolving her channel past that. Also, I usually just play her videos in the background while working, so I don't really watch the makeup elements. I do follow her on IG though so I know she's super talented at makeup lol
I also don't think there's anything wrong with making money off of it, but only & specifically because of the world we live in. Morally, I'd like for it to be something that doesn't need to and shouldn't be monetized, but we live in a world where news stations and TV channels do it every day, and way shittier people get those (much larger) paychecks. Many of these youtubers are doing these victims way more justice than those mainstream channels, that's for sure. And the youtubers who don't do a good/respectful job of it simply won't get my viewership or support.
exactly!!
She's "shifting" again because that's what she does. She hops to what makes money.
@@ladysaturn3876 Bailey is like the most humble person on CZcams lol she’s so sweet
i agree
@@ladysaturn3876 Oh yeah, what a chameleon, so flip-flopping in her interests despite doing the same or similar thing for the last 3 years.
I really like watching Bailey. I've always liked watching true crime videos, but I prefer watching Bailey do her makeup while she talks, rather than the classic sit down and talk straight to the camera. I always need lots of things going on at the same time (mental illness:)), and her doing multiple things at the same time satisfies my brain, and helps me relax. I also really like her personality, so yeah. I don't really see anything wrong with her content.
Why does your comfort of wanting lots going on matter more than respecting the humans behind the event. Getting "relaxed" and "satisfying your brain" to hear about people's death is ew
Stephanie Harlowe is very good and respectful, she even speaks to victims families and often brings attention to very unknown cases. She usually gets permission from families
Glad to see more people bring up Stephanie
she is literally the best true crime youtuber
I liked her until her covering the Gabbie Petito case. She said some things regarding the police interaction that rubbed me the wrong way and I haven’t watched her since.
uhm no? she sided with a murderer and said the victim deserved it.
@@MsMoonDragoon which case was it?
if a family member of mine died brutally i would absolutely hate for someone to make a video like that no matter their delivery or whatever
For real!! Like some of the people who died don't have children or children in the family who know how to use youtube. Imagine seeing a video that's like "Murder make-up TRUE CRIME" with your deceased loved one. Like, that is in NO WAY okay
I’ve experienced my loved one being murdered brutally, and all I can say is that by the time the mainstream media is done digging their claws in you it’s hard to give a shit about somebody on CZcams. One is far worse and more harmful than the other, and it’s definitely not the girl doing make up.
EXACTLY
@@dawn6199 I’m so sorry for your loss, that’s truly horrible
Personally, as long as they were respectful about the situation, I wouldn’t mind. It would be nice for them to reach out, but even if they didn’t I’d be okay with it. It would be personally tragic, but I think it’s good for the people to be aware of the crimes that happen around them.
I watch Bailey’s dark history podcast videos more often than her MM&M videos. They’re simply produced way better. The best true crime CZcamsr is Kendall Rae. Not only does she give back to the victims and their families, she gives them a platform to come on her channel and speak themselves. Absolutely amazing channel.
Kendall Rae is amazing. She talks about ways to be a good victim's advocate as well, which is imperative to ongoing investigations.
Why doesn't she just not do her makeup then if it clearly works without the casual act
I tried to watch bailey too a year ago. I watched about 3 to 4 of her popular mm&m videos (each with at least 1 million views) but decided to stop because I felt really uncomfortable how she talked about it while putting on makeup and sometimes even joking around while telling the story. Tbf the jokes aren't about the case but about her makeup. Like sometimes in a middle of telling the story, she stops and says "Oh no, my eyeshadow is too dark." or something like that. Because I usually watch kendall rae and danielle hallan who both are very serious on telling the story, I just can't stand bailey.
I disagree. There are a lot more people who approach the matter more respectfully
Coffeehouse crime is also one I highly recommend
I'm not saying Bailey is perfect, but I like her because she largely does historical murders, not current or ongoing stuff where it could be more harmful. The amount of research she does makes it feel more respectful, too. And like people said, she doesn't talk about makeup while she talks about murders.
I found a true crime channel like this and I didn’t know this was a whole genre. I thought the makeup was not only just to be something to watch, but I thought it was like a fidget to keep them stimulated. As someone with really big adhd, I understand fully and just need a separate thing to do with my hands but I think I’m giving them too much credit.
This is why I really love Kendall Rae for true crime. She sticks strictly to facts, and has helped fundraise millions for victims and nonprofits. She also has talked about the ethics behind it quite a few times and prides herself on putting the victims and their families first.
Exactly! She helps victims so much and she’s so good at just giving the awareness and information without having to add any weird gimmicks. I know people say: well when people do makeup or does a mukbang it helps comfort me from the situation. But I think that’s insane. It’s a harsh topic no matter what, and just Kendall’s animals being in the background is comfort enough
@@sailorraine2676 she's gotten a lot better. I didn't like her early stuff but I think she's gotten better
@@sailorraine2676 i find it really weird when people use the excuse that makeup/mukbangs during true crime make them feel more comfortable consuming the content, because like, you're SUPPOSED to feel uncomfortable when you're hearing stories about people being murdered. Like, someone else's discomfort should not bring you comfort.
She has also had episodes where she actually interviews family members and let's the family talk about the victim, which I think is something that puts Kendall above the rest
YES! I have watched True crime makeup videos and it makes me so uncomfortable how the talk about a gruesome crime like its gossip or "tea". Kendall Rae is one of the few true crime CZcamsrs out there that actually care about the victims and try to shed light on the family's story.
I am a big enjoyer of Hayley Elizabeth. She does true crime while doing makeup. She tends to approach the topics very seriously with her own input and also mentions the mistakes that were made by the investigators, the intertwined information etc. I honestly do not watch it per say. I like to listen to it while doing other stuff. Imo, the makeup part is usualy put in so the screen isn't just too bland. However, ofc, you need to approach such topics in a way that is as respecrful and as informative as possible without being too personal.
Edit: upon looking at the comments below, I realized Hayelys content does have a lot of flaws and the quality can quite... Fluctuate. Still, some of the videos are good and enjoyble. Lmk some other content creators w a similar style!
this, i watch her a lot and i honestly think she handles it really well
yeah i really like hailey elizabeth a lot and eleanor neale. Those are the only two like true crime youtubers i can watch without feeling a sense a disrespect or ignorance towards the case.
I agree. I like her content a lot but sometimes I wonder if she doesn't dramatize things a little bit. The way she tells the story sometimes sounds like she's reading a novel and I literally have to remind myself that these people actually got hurt. She talks about their way of thinking and their feelings, things she just can't know about. I just think that's a little odd.
@@lunaidontknoweither4988 yes, that is the part I find rather offputting. On the other hand, she usualy makes sure we know it's an assumption, yet again tho, we shouldn't assume things like these. It is sometimes offputting, but she does do a much better job than a lot of true crime readers out there. I also enjoy the fact that her script is usualy well prepared and she corrects herself when a mistake is made immediately. It is the bare minimum, ik, but at this point I take the bare minimum.
Yes I love her! I wish she'd do more research though literally every single video she gets a name wrong or something
My brother was murdered when i was 10, i remember finding out what happened to him for the first time, i felt like everything that was good in my life just vanished. My dad and i went to his highschool to collect his things and a couple of girls were talking about his death like it was that weeks drama, litteraly laughing at times, all while talking about how hot he was, it made me sick, ive never felt so sick before. I can only imagine seeing your family member death being talked about while someone is promoting a product or applying makeup feels the same, like there life didnt even matter and its just a fun thing to talk about
I feel like worrying about people putting on makeup and discussing public information is getting into “chronically online” territory but idk
I do like Bailey, so I'm biased. But something I like about her is she sometimes picks topics to raise awareness. She'll include hotlines and petitions, talk about crimes against POC, and bring attention to missing persons that I have never heard about. I do find value in that. When the story is very old, like 1800s, I feel she is more casual than when talking about something more recent. You can tell that she is genuinely sad for victims and understands the weight of the stories, and I think that's why she takes so much time off. I've watched a couple other people here and there but never stuck with them, I only watch Bailey
ahh i’m the same way for sure
As far as the jokes, I think it's important to note that consuming this type of content is very taxing and traumatizing, so I see them more as a coping mechanism. Besides, I've never heard her make any jokes about the victims, only the murderers
@@daniellemichael1 look at her natalee Holloway and Jeffrey Dahmer videos. She constantly laughs and makes jokes at the expense of the victims and after she gets done laughing she says "this isn't funny" she has zero tact.
to be fair, bailey entirely started this trend because she became successful doing it, and she only included the makeup portion in the beginning because it was a new segment to her channel and she didn’t want it to feel like she was completely overhauling her content, but rather discussing a topic she finds fascinating and genuinely cares about while making her regular content. And as others mentioned, she tries to bring awareness to lesser-known cases when possible while being respectful to the victims and their families.
The rest of the creators just jumped off of her success when she all of a sudden blew up and had millions of subscribers and views. I’m acknowledging my bias here as I watched bailey before she got big, but I genuinely dislike the other creators as they put more focus on the makeup and they feel much more exploitative of these tragedies.
danielle does apply her knowledge and tries to share this in her videos, she was already a growing youtuber and has shared that this is something she cares more about and was very careful when switching her content. i genuinely feel like she cares about properly sharing these stories. i am obviously biased, but as a true crime person i found her channel and the makeup is extremely secondary
i think it’s important to mention a lot of the victims’ family members will comment on videos and thank the creator for bringing awareness to it.
i used to watch stephanie soo. i don’t think she’s a bad person at all but i eventually became aware of how… strange? it is to watch someone eat really great looking meals and describing them while simultaneously discussing someone’s murder or disappearance. it’s just so casual. my last straw was a thumbnail she had of gabriel fernandez in the corner, bruised up, with her photoshopped in, making a “wow!” face at some shrimp she was eating. it felt bad. she was respectful and empathetic talking about his murder in the video but it still rubbed me the wrong way. none of the viewers mentioned it.
I’ve had the same experience as someone who used to watch Stephanie. It was never a video that I watched particularly, but rather, I realized one day that profiting off of someone’s death in that manner seems highly unethical and disrespectful. I will say when she covered novels and movies she read that were fiction, it was super entertaining.
Personally I prefer her podcasts
@@Artemis820 Same. I can't stand mukbangs. All that chewing and swallowing noises make me gag. I would have to skip like 20 mins forward to get to the story
it’s highly disrespectful and weird, i can’t stand it. i cant stand her honestly, no offense. sigh
I don’t really like food videos like that, that seems so inappropriate :( ESPECIALLY with a case like Gabriel’s
in recent months, as a true crime fan, i have become increasingly aware of the content i consume. and because of that the people i regularly watch has become smaller and smaller. people like bailey, danielle, and hailee have been a few that i don’t watch much anymore. their thumbnails combined with the tone come off as extremely insensitive. i watch it and i feel like i’m listening to someone gossip. it’s uncomfortable. even elanor neale, who i respect, had some video titles that rub me the wrong way. as consumers we just need to think about all aspects of the content more deeply. there are people who are still hurting today from this situations, and joking about any aspect of it feels wrong. with that in mind, eleanor, stephanie harlowe, and kendall rae are creators i can always count on to be respectful.
Stephanie Harlowe reigns supreme as the absolute best true crime youtuber
@@nanunanu641
stephanie is the person who made me look at things differently. she describes the victims lives and loved ones with such detail that it makes me cry a lot of the times, and it made me realize how desensitized i’ve been to these stories.
i honestly just realized that i should start thinking more about the true crime content i consume but i've always hated that media gives killers all these nicknames which just make them sound like cartoon villains or something. as much as the algorithm loves flashy titles and buzzwords, imo the most respectful way is just "the case of * victims name *" or something like that
I’m into researching true crime and missing person cases and I have been for at least 6 years, so my take may be biased but imo videos like this for the most part are ok.
With true crime videos in general there has always been people who view them as morally wrong because they think that the creators profiting off a horrible situation is disgusting, this opinion is felt by even more people regarding creators who are doing something else whilst talking about the case. If you think about it though there’s no difference between a well researched creator posting about a case and another form of media like newspapers or websites publishing something on the same case. I only feel this way about creators who are trying to be respectful though, like that girl who started talking about libras isn’t something I support because the way she went about presenting it was way too casual.
As for the doing makeup or a mukbang while presenting these cases I see no issue with it so long as it follows what I already stated above. People have always been interested in crime cases, there’s a reason why back in the day community gossip would sometimes be about a crime that everyone read in the newspaper, but just because so many people are interested in a case doesn’t mean they’re ok with going in deep with it. I think the makeup true crime videos are a way for those people who want to learn about a case to actually be able to, as the added aspect of another activity helps distract from the extreme horrors of cases.
Edit: oml I forgot to even mention that these videos help get these cases out there again, this is rly helpful for cases about a missing person, cold cases, wrongfully punished defendants, or even the victim’s families taking legal action against the government if they handled something wrong.
Bailey and Danielle always try to be as respectful as possible, and they try to keep it factual instead of putting conspiracy theories for the giggles.
They never excuse the criminal but they do point out any childhood traumas to give a broader picture.
They even do omit some names sometimes to stay respectful if they felt the person did not want to be known (like siblings of said criminals).
Aren’t true crime compilation books also sold? I don’t understand why is it horrible if they profit out of it when that’s their speciality and they do all the research they can while being respectful.
I've always been very wary of the capitalist horror of true crime. Don't get me wrong, I'm an on and off fan of a few different true crime creators because the genre itself is very exciting to be an audience member for. I mean the stakes are literally life and death! However, through exploring true crime content I have seen many creators who, like you talked about, really are not respectful towards the subject matter and are clearly just getting a youtube/patreon paycheck. It's so weird seeing many of them (on youtube) specifically discuss these horrible atroicities that happened to real life people, but also censor out some words of their script to keep it advertiser friendly. Very eerie and capitalist realism pilled, but like you said it's a case by case basis. Great video as always!
I used to watch more true crime than was healthy. the appearance of makeup channels is actually why I realized I needed to stop subjecting myself to this morbid content and quit cold turkey. I've always felt like that was a pretty good indicator of how gross it is.
I agree 100% with you. Feels very icky when a true crime youtuber does a sponsor right before talking about a murder or as you said censorship to keep the video ad friendly, it's weird... However I still have a daily dose of true crime now and then, but I try to just consume the creators who are respectful about it, do good research and just state the facts, if they add their own thoughts is in a serious manner. It's hard to find creators like that nowadays.
It's interesting that ppl are hung up on the makeup part. If someone was making pottery or painting while discussing this would it be different? For many, makeup is part of a mundane routine, something part of professional and everyday presentation like wearing shoes, but that's what ppl are saying makes this as "not taking it seriously".
And then there's the question on who can even talk about true crime and whether it should be talked about at all on social media. Is it okay when it's not for profit? Who do you focus on when discussing the crimes?
It's also one of the few ways women are validated in the ways in which we are preyed upon by men, which is why I think so many women gravitate toward it
This is definitely the best comment here. The whole rat race kind of vibe I get from these makeup CZcamsrs capitalizing off of these murders to make money is really grim. And as other people are saying, putting these true crime incidents in a casual context desensitizes us to these horrible murders and that's not something we need in general as a society. It never sat right with me and I'm so glad other people are talking about this finally.
@@TheElectricitychick I understand what you're saying and I think this is why this topic so polarizing. Before content creators were a thing, journalists were the people we could trust to get interesting stories, and that position holds a sort of professional integrity. The level of ethics that journalists operate under is something that people on CZcams don't necessarily have to abide by which seems to be the point of concern in this case. I think isolating traumatic news or incidents like this to their own medium is better than combining it with mundane things to get us used to it because we shouldn't want to be used to hearing about horrific things in the context of the every day. I totally agree that women should have a place to deliver interesting an important stories, but maybe on a dedicated video essay channel instead of a hobby channel.
I have such conflicting thoughts about this because true crime and the entertainment industry have been intertwined forever. I can totally see why these youtubers are being called insensitive or unethical. We expect media about true crime to be delivered in a professional, empathetic way. However, everyday people who like true crime talk about it with their friends in a very casual, detached, sometimes even gossipy way. TV companies know this, and profit off of it too. Tell-all interviews with murderers’ friends and families, live coverage from courtrooms, etc. I think mainstream coverage of true crime can be incredibly exploitative as well. CZcams has always been a place where ordinary people can make content to communicate with other ordinary people. These true crime youtubers are talking about true crime stories while doing their makeup or getting ready because it offers the feeling of just chatting with a friend about true crime in a realistic way. It fulfills a niche that more formal true crime programs don’t. Making any type of money from discussing horrific events is always going to be inherently exploitative to a certain degree. I don’t think these youtubers are really harming anyone. It’s just a difference of reporters vs. everyday people delivering the story.
theres been several instances of families coming forward and saying a youtube video about their loved ones murder retraumatized them, so its kind of a slap in the face to hear someone say theyre not hurting anyone. imagine someone close to you getting murdered and then seeing videos about it not only on the news and netflix but also in your recommendeds on social media for years afterwards- and theres no safe place for them to avoid thinking about it, its just constant reminders of trauma.
if they found a way to work with the families of the victims and maybe even get formal sensitivity training somehow so they could be sure theyre being respectful, that would resolve most of these issues i think. but no one wants to do that, they just want to replicate those exploitative docudramas. being empathetic and trying to truly honor victims just doesnt get as many views as "omg cannibals lol".
their goal usually isnt *just* to offer the feeling of chatting with a friend- theyre only offering that because its a good way to eventually become another James Charles. theyre intentionally developing parasocial relationships in which they bond over murder, which is, uh.... something.
i hope this doesnt come off as judgmental or aggressive btw! im sure youre a great person who means well, which is the only reason i even bothered commenting. if you disagree feel free to let me know, im still working through my opinions on this too!
i would agree with @some dude as well as @Throwaway Acc those are definitely things to take into consideration especially when making money off of it. its a difficult subject to even talk about. I personally never been into things like this, just not my type of content(not knocking people who do, you like what you like). I agree with nick aswell, as long as your being respectful of the family and are using the information with their permission(even maybe confirming facts with them or allowing them to review before published) then its okay in my opinion. i feel like most professionals(as in docudramas or whatever) definitely dont respect as much as the average person. but then again there are some people who just dont really have any respect in general so its really a case by case issue. cause what one does is not what everyone does. IDK idk anything lol i just hope the families can find peace and maybe they should cover cases that are still open with no closure to help find it since people on the internet are pretty good at that but also people can be very disrespectful in general and can often take something and run with it
Yeah, I find it kind of odd that we hound on smaller creatives on things that big companies are and have been doing for a long time… not saying the criticism is wrong because this conversation is a lot of gray area, but the behavior that some of these youtubers have come from the same behavior they probably have seen watching those True Crime documentaries/series/reenactments/channels/etc. like do y’all really think Ryan Murphy is sending the money he made off of his Series to Nicole Brown’s children/family? So Imo I think the finger has to be pointed at these companies just as much, if not more, as at smaller creatives… I think humanity tends to always blame or get mad at the little guy when he’s just copying or reflecting the Bigger Brother..
Agreed, and I think this youtubers make it a lot more digestible than these documentaries or even watching the news. Bailey puts things into simple terms, Doesn’t normal add any creepy music or sound effects etc. It’s very easy to follow and educational
@@somedude172 I understand that youtubers coverage of true crime can and has negatively affected victims’ families. But I also think that you’re forgetting that there are many more cases of that happening due to coverage by mainstream outlets. All forms of entertainment media are created with the express purpose of generating money. It’s a bit disingenuous to use that as a critique against youtubers but not authors and tv personalities.
Also, you make the point that youtubers’ main goal isn’t to provide the feeling of chatting with a friend, but to “intentionally create parasocial relationships”. Isn’t that a direct contradiction? You’re essentially saying “their goal isn’t to appear as if they were your friend, it’s to appear as if they were your friend.”
There was a Reddit post the other week talking about a person who’s father was murdered and it had been covered on one of these channels and it was completely traumatizing for them
I can only imagine I stopped watching true crime content just cause that felt most respectful and healthy for me.
I think the way to find respectful true crime content is that they present it in a serious, straightforward way and focuses on the topic. It's why I like Nick Crowley and tuv, both don't make jokes, rather than bring it to attention directly.
I'm not saying it would've been funnier if Nick did makeup while doing commentary this video, but I'm kinda saying it would've been funnier...
I think for people with ADHD etc, having something to visually watch (even if it is irrelevant to what we’re learning) helps us keep focus on the words. It keeps my mind from wandering and helps me learn. I agree it is a bit weird, but as long as it’s executed respectfully, no harm done.
I read Reddit while listening to videos. I don’t even watch the makeup part. That’s completely irrelevant to me. Lol
I have ADHD and this is exactly how I feel. It’s easily digestible for me
I don't have adhd, but as someone also neurodivergent, I agree. Having something to look at helps me focus
As someone with adhd i will have to agree
as someone with ADHD i agree 100%
True crime as a genre is inherently exploitative. Content creators should be as respectful as humanly possible when covering these stories.
i’m currently taking a forensics course and it has given me a different perspective in the world of violent crime. many of these popular true crime channels do not understand the weight of their actions and how social media can actually damage the progress of a case. covering open, recent cases is especially risky. we saw the way the media destroyed possibilities of an unbiased jury in the OJ Simpson case. Spreading allegations and potentially false information can have an impact on families and legal proceedings in many cases.
not to mention, trivializing violence causes indifference among the general public. people become desensitized and push things aside without truly understanding the weight these crimes have.
I usually don't comment, but one thing I personally don't appreciate about these channels is the way they talk about cases that involve mental illness. It's often characterized as some sort of "paranormal" aspect of the case or something that makes it "spooky" which is highly stigmatizing and inappropriate. They also often characterize people who have been through the forensic mental health system as unredeemable because they are "crazy people who don't deserve to go back to society" when it's an incredibly complex issue. These cases are traumatizing to everyone involved, and to reduce a complex case of someone committing a terrible crime and the height of their psychotic illness as a paranormal drama is gross.
elisa lam is unfortunately a great example of this
I’m surprised at your comment, in my experience, I have not encountered that from these make up and murder channels. Which creators are you referring to?
The ones I’ve watched tend to be very empathetic and knowledgeable concerning mental health issues of assailants. And have varied opinions on prison terms and rehabilitation.
THIS!!!! And I really wish there was more conversation in the media that’s made about these really horrible situations about larger systems. I want to see more conversations about transformative justice, and prevention before this stuff happens (like for example white cis men holding other white cis men accountable) . I’m also just like,,, when people say someone is violent because they are “crazy”, it also fully detracts from actual accountability of the person who caused the harm. Having mental illnesses does not mean someone is violent. As someone who has mental illnesses that have been highly stigmatized as “crazy”, the majority of the people I have seen cause the most harm to me and others- they didn’t have the mental illnesses that are most commonly slapped on as the cause of people who cause violence in true crime, it absolutely had to do with their relationship with conflict, their prejudice, and their ego, and their relationship with power. Agh.
Elenore Neal does a great job of highlighting everything leading up to the point of the crime and emphasizing mental health awareness with that. She’s the only true crime CZcamsr I watch because of that. She also doesn’t do her makeup or anything when presenting the case.
@@AmyWhitehouseVlog I think Buzzfeed and Aria can be some of those people. Anna Unsolved as well . They paranormalize mental health . I don’t think anyone else really does
Kendell Rae is my favorite True Crime CZcamsr. She always focuses on the victim's story, their memory, and very often gets the family involved and almost all of her videos are used for promoting and donating to the victim's family or a non-profit organizations that help people in need.
I’ve been watching Danielle for about a year or two now and honestly she’s so respectful about every case she takes up, and always leaves resources if needed and does extensive research and she always stops the makeup to speak about really serious things
Eleanore Neale makes true crime videos without make up and in an incredibly respectful way. especially towards the victims.
Elenor Neal is my favourite of the CZcams true crime girlie channels, she is beyond respectful to the victims and all of her videos are centred around their stories! She tells us about the victims lives, and just who they were before their death.
Her videos feel like genuine necessary additions to the discussions around whatever crime she’s covering. She speaks on a side that way too often goes unheard- That of the victim!
I think ppl should take notes from her.
i love elenor neale, she's super respectful when talking about the victims and the cases.
Yeah, Her thumbnails are usually also literally just a screen shot from the video, not her posing or anything. I’ve also seen her link charities and stuff. Also she took down a video of hers (this was a while ago) when family of the victim contacted her to say she got a couple of things wrong.
She just overall seems very nice and is respectful, like you said :)
i have been watching elenore since i was around 12( i’m now 15) and she has always been the best at explaining while being respectful plus when there is ongoing missing persons cases she always puts them on her stories and gives links on how to help which shows she actually cares since that’s outside of her job
@cloud yeah that’s a fair point, I’m not sure if she does.
@@hangessciencegoggles7373 yeah elenore also brings awareness to things that arent as heavily covered on, such as knife crime in england, especially in london which is really important. and as someone who lives in england i think needs to be covered on more, as in mainstream media that a lot of us consume its from america, which deals with its problems regarding gun laws, but thats a different story. so we never really hear about the dangers of knife crime, and people like elenore help shed light onto the issue.
Bailey Sarian did a collab with Nancy Grace and lost all my respect about her ability to do true crime "respectfully." I saw a post once on r/beautyguruchatter about someone who had a loved one who was tragically murdered and Bailey did a video about it and got facts wrong. She's been rude in the past when family members try to correct her so I don't watch her content at all.
She’s definitely not respectful in the way everyone in the comments are trying to say
@@ileana2708 yeah. in this comment section: people who've never considered that their fave viewing appointment might be problematic
@@ileana2708 I didn't know any of this:( I just left a reply to someone else who said she was disrespectful in her videos. From my perspective, as the daughter of someone who was killed, I am very critical of true crime "storytelling." But I actually like Bailey's. She paints the victims as real people. It's not just clinical "name, age, race."
But damn, I didn't know she worked with Nancy Grace and dismissed family member's fact checking.
Yikes. Yeah Nancy grace sucks.
who is nancy grace if its ok to ask?
I know Bailey, and I’m sure some other people, said that the reason she wanted to start the series was just because she would read about true crime cases and just wanted to talk about it, and she wanted to do makeup to have something to do while talking about it. So even though she is making money off of it, I don’t think she is picking true crime and makeup because they’re super popular to make money but rather because they are things she is passionate about and thus what she wants to make videos about. She also goes out of her way a lot of the time to do stories that aren’t super popular all the time even though she knows that those would make more money.
I guess I just think that like someone will make money off of these stories somehow, even newspapers, so I don’t see such a large issue with these creators making money. They are doing a service after all, doing research on a topic and putting it into a relatively short and easy to follow/understand video, that way watchers do not have to do this for themselves.
I have been watching Bailey for a while, and i love that she does a LOT of research into these cases and doesn’t feel like she is disrespecting as the make up is more “background”. I have seen creators cutting in and out of “make up tutorial” and the true crime story. I personally think she is great, and these true crime stories really get to me. And as you said, i think it is by case-by-case basis. Some people do it well, some seem to be disrespectful.
I know this is an older comment, but also I've literally seen her in videos either stop doing makeup or just not finish the look because she focused on the case.
Lol it is a bit odd “and then he was torn in half his insides now on the outside” *applies false lashes*😂
I feel like people are so desensitized to murder that when people like Bailey Sarian (who I used to subscribe to back in the day so I understand why people do) talk about it-even if she’s just poking fun at the murder-the TONE and CADENCE in which she speaks about the worst thing these people, most of who are still alive, have ever been through in such a light hearted manner, is under looked . Can you imagine if Bailey spoke about other traumas like SA or P-word in the same way she speaks about situations of murder? I’ve literally watched her laugh talking about the murders itself, then try to backpedal and be like, “Sorry I’m just uncomfortable,” when she could’ve just cut that out. It’s exploitative point blank, and if you want to keep watch her that’s fine, but I don’t think making excuses for her is correct either. If you aren’t comfortable enough telling these stories to the point where you have to make constant jokes and funny faces, doing your make up, then you shouldn’t be doing true crime! I don’t have the stomach to be a surgeon so why would I make that my career if I can’t properly handle it?
(Respectful True Crime Channels: Coffeehouse Crimes, Twisted Minds, Explore with Us, Kendall Rae, etc. There’s a lot of psychology and science based true crime channels that are more accurate and respectful)
genuine question: what does "p-word" refer to?
@@fishbowlheretic it refers to adults who are attracted to minors (CZcams sometimes deletes comments that say the actual word sigh)
@@fishbowlheretic I was just about to ask the same thing, but I think I just figured it out actually. I think she’s talking about p*d*philia
@@avielbolesa7296 ahhh, okay, thank you!
@@natasha774 thank you!
the thumbnails are insane to me like why would you put yourself front and center and the brutal murder of a real person behind you😭
My sister missing. If they talked about her case I would be happy bc she being talked about. So no it’s a good thing as long as the family is ok with it.
maybe u can reach out to 10 to life’s channel, to try and get ur story out there🥺
Hopefully she gets found ❤ I pray for her safety
do you have any update on this? i really hope your family is okay and she safely returned
another thing about Bailey Sarian is the fact that she laughs so often during her videos. "I'm laughing cause I'm so uncomfortable!" okay.. edit it out, then? I was listening to a video of hers where she started laughing after saying a man was SA'ed. I don't care if she was uncomfortable with that, laughing is the last appropriate reaction.
@@EmptySoulEm ... imagine how you would feel if someone was talking about a loved one of yours that hot brutally murdered and dismembered and laughed about it
Laughter is a natural reaction to being uncomfortable, it reminds us that she is a human telling the story of an awful crime.
That is just some disgusting shit. I'm not saying the laughing in general is, it's the fact she didn't edit it out. It's like she's not taking male sexual assualt seriously that's already a problem in general and she's just continueing that problem
@@Fruitflyonyourwall I mean I dunno about you but laughing at male SA then not edit it out doesn't seem so human to me. Like I expect humans to have basic decency
Tbh i personally feel like dark subjects as a whole have been toned down and made into basically “memes” rather then a tragic case that caused people trauma and harm , i feel its a general issue with how we treat these cases
I agree but with how "normal" it is for tragedies to happen everyday, we're used to it or at least the younger generations are which makes it harder and harder to treat such things as super impactful or traumatic (sorry this is a run-on sentence, wasn't sure how to format to get the point across)
@@idk-mq8vn (its okay dont worry) but yeah even with the recent sianna mae(i hope i wrote it right-) and jack sitoution people created it into nothing more then a meme despite the fact jack is going to have to live his entire life now traumtized bcus of her- same with creepshowart it feels like people are using it to make “memes” and dont realise how much of a tragic event it truly was
To me this whole “makeup true crime” is just a side effect of how normalized tragic events such as this are
@@Man-wolf- I dont know much about those things but the makeup commentary and crime definitely does add to insensitivity. Though I do think some* creators do it right and make sure they show how tragic it is
@@idk-mq8vn im an artist and often times like to spend my time just having some background noise while i draw so i watch some commentries here and there so its how i find out
I dont watch alot of true crime but yeah i can get what you mean, i feel the same can apply to commentry channels, some treat extremly tragic cases like a joke while others do treat it with respect
I do like Bailey’s true crime & makeup series because I literally would have no idea about this kind of stuff without her reports. News networks talk about recent crimes and make money off of it too but they don’t go into any detail. I like hearing the different perspectives involved, the upbringings of the people involved, the full story, and everything being told usually without a strong bias. If she is dissatisfied with the conclusion, she offers other possibilities of the situation and reasonings behind her theories. I really like the theories section of the video because they re-present information that was neglected during investigations & information I forgot. + she doesn’t max out her ads on the video. I think there’s just the regular ad cluster at the start of all videos, even though she could definitely add more because her videos are typically 30-40 minutes long. The part of this video I’m paused on rn has a comment saying they don’t like her bc she doesn’t donate to the effected people, but my counter argument for that is… she’s not a charity organization, nor is her responsibility to donate. She makes a lot of her money through sponsorships, andd she’s not just a narcissist using pain to get money, she has donated and encouraged donating when the situation calls for it. It’s not her responsibility to pay for the therapy and I don’t believe she needs direct permissions since everything she has (videos, audios, photos, quotes) are already highly public information. Do you think she knows their whole life story through direct stalking? Stalking in times she wasn’t even alive? She gets her information through articles & interviews. If she has information or something from the family, it would be from another article which they clearly consented to because it was an actual interview. She’s piecing together already publicized information, none of it is from harassing the family or anyone directly involved. She hasn’t even spoken to officers or judges for inside info like some other true crime people? Bailey doesn’t even talk about her makeup until the end of the video or if it’s distracting her. Her videos are not tutorials or anything of the sort? I believe she has explained in the past why she does makeup along with talking about true crime and if I’m remembering correctly it’s because she feels like it would be more awkward to just stare into a camera and speak, which means the makeup aspect of her videos is simply a way to cope with anxiety and camera shyness, not a sneaky way to make the video more about her and her talents with makeup instead of the issues she’s talking about. I feel like it’s much easier for people to give hate to her instead of people who actually harm the people involved because she has a face for people to direct their anger to. There are videos of “reporters” harassing families as they walk out of the courtroom or even out of their own house, but these are just audios and for some reason… humans find it easier to hate things when there is a physical representation of it. The word “broccoli” would have no effect on children if they didn’t have an idea of what broccoli looked like 🥦 (this emoji reminds me of one more thing I need to explain. The turkey emoji. It wasn’t meant to be an insult, it was because the video was filmed near the American Thanksgiving this year AND because if you actually watched the video, you’d know that the murder took place on thanksgiving of 1991, the murderer ate the person she killed. In short, it’s a “thanksgiving special.” She doesn’t put emojis on normal videos.)
what makes me sick are podcasts with disrespectful names like my favorite murder
I will say something that really bothers me, and that’s Mukbang while talking about murder cases. I really hope you’ll look into that.. for example, I used to like Stephanie Soo’s content as in her vlogs, but her mukbangs while talking about true crime really bothers me to the core and I can’t understand it. It just feels weird and gross and they just shouldn’t be combined. I feel like that’s worse than makeup
I agree I can't watch Stephanie Soo's content. Food and murder shouldn't be combined. It's gross. And she's just so loud and giggly in these videos. It doesn't sit well with me to hear someone's been brutally murdered whole the person who's discussing it is also telling us how good her sushi rolls are...🤦🏻♀️ It's just so insensitive and horrid. All while she's screeching and laughing at the camera and acting all hyper. 🙄😒
@@bethanylindo2982 yeah the hyperness is super weird in a video that’s supposed to be serious. On top of that, she also tries doing this voice as she tells a story, like the type of voice you’d do if you were telling a fake spooky story. I find that weird too, but yeah I used to like her but once I found that content I just can’t. It’s so not self aware.
I thought I was the only one who noticed 🤣 but yeah just not my type of person. I find true crime interesting but it should be done respectfully. xxxxx
I've been watching a lot of true crime stories, either from JCS - Criminal Phycology or Haley Elizabeth's videos, so maybe I am biased when I say their videos are ethically okay. Both put a lot of effort into the videos and focus on the "villain" rather than the victim. What I like about JCS's videos is they are all factual focusing of the interrogation. What I like about Haley's videos is she has a friendly personality, bringing awareness to the case, while making it easier to swallow. I think things step into the line of unethical when the francization turns into romanization, but that's more the viewers fault. I think creators also fail when makeup crime videos are posted to Tik Tok, with multiple parts to one story. Where the sound can be used by anyone wanting to reach a wider audience. It's possible ethical isn't the best word, but I think the videos are okay, to an extent.
If you like JCS I’d also recommend Matt Orchard - they have similar video styles but more importantly he puts the same amount of effort into his research
I literally watch only these two channels! I love Haley because she really puts so much research and effort into her videos
JCS recently popped up in my recommended and I thought the interrogation style video he did was really interesting! He didn't seem to be sensationalizing it, just analyzing the process as well as the "perp's" reactions and responses. Good stuff.
I love how whenever Bambi meows, there's someone in the stream that comments "meow" afterwards
I really liked how you added multiple perspectives on this. Great video
i just want to put this out there : if i die tragically or get murdered i will not be mad if bailey makes my case a video
(that doesn't mean everybody feels this way... but i do hehe)
Same
Same
Same
Same. Not just Bailey, anyone. If I get murdered, I want people to talk about it. Spread my story, go in detail about my life. If I can live anyone, the only thing left of me is people's memories
@@camibvaz factsssss exactly
doing a collab with nancy grace immediately ruins credibility in my eyes
I feel as though the concept itself of someone doing their makeup while talking about a real person's violent horrible death, is just macabre and surreal in itself in how it highlights the weird fascination that humans have with murder and death, in an almost absurd way. But i'd say tonality is key. There are youtubers and real tv shows that sensationalize peoples suffering in a disrespectful way without even involving makeup, but are disgusting in how they take it way to far into the dramatics, so its not just about the makeup (tho i think it is weird)
My favorite true crime podcast is morbid, they always make sure they talk about how the victims where when they where alive and make sure they’re a person and are remembered for who they where instead of how they died
The most important part of these things is how they treat the victims. Which in most of these, especially Bailey Sarians videos, they are respectful to the victims and families. It's the criminals they joke about, and I think that's fine, mainly bc these killers are usually very arrogant and on a high horse, so it's fine to take them down a noch. But also, these videos address grey areas and uncertainties in these murder cases. They're well researched and overall have everything it needs to be a well written and respectful video. I understand if the make up or mukbang in between throws you off, but it really doesn't do as much harm as people make it out to be.
Now, if a family of a victim came forward and said something about it, that would be a different story, but that hasn't happened.
totally agree!
I agree
Couldn't have said it better!
I think the best person is Kendall Rae. She’s the most respectful in terms of research, telling the story, and she even contacts the family sometimes. THAT should be the blueprint. I’d say Bailey Sarian comes in a close second.
honest question: how do you know it hasn't happened?
The whole Makeup + Murder thing is the reason why I only watch Bailey's Dark History's podcasts nowadays. She does such a great job with them and I actually feel like I'm learning something. I would totally recommend it to anyone, especially if you're interested in history!
I used to watch Bailey's videos with my sister, but we didn't actually watch them, we would just put them on so we could listen to these cases and fall asleep (because somehow her voice made both of us sleepy). But still I did watch /watch/ some of her videos from time to time, and seeing her do something else while she talked about the cases helped me keep focused, which is something hard for me to achieve because my attention span is shit. So, yeah. If the problem is that they're making money out of it, then why aren't we talking about every single piece of media that features true crimes? And if the issue is about respect, I believe it's as you said, something to be considered case by case.
I loved this video, super interesting topic and I appreciate how open you are to all the povs
There's also the argument that it desensitizes us. Placing vicious murders with something as common as a makeup routine can feel very weird.
I would argue that this is a result of us already being desensitized due to our 24/7 news cycle and our entertainment media. At least in America it's totally fine to have blood, gore, and violence on screen during the day. Even my toddler's shows have mild violence and talk about dying in a vague sense. It starts early and it's pretty nefarious and if parents aren't paying attention it can easily ramp up pretty quickly.
I’d argue the opposite. I believe things like the news desensitize us, victims because a 10 second sound bite or a statistic. The constant barrage of images on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook without proper context.
Many of these channels take the cases incredibly seriously, doing hours of research. It’s a whole community of people who genuinely care about the subject.
It's the frequency of how often you consume these type of content that will desensitize you, not that it's coupled with a make up routine lol
I thought I'd say this bc I see a lot of the opposite sentiment, if god forbid I died horribly, I would love to have my story be told and my murderer to ruthlessly be made fun of by true crime channels. I'd eat it up in the afterlife.
It’s like the subway surfer trend. Where having something innocuous to focus on helps you better pay attention to the story
I personally like watching the makeup and mystery videos because it gives me something to pay attention to while listening whereas if it’s just a plain video talking I tend to do something while it’s on and not pay as much attention if that makes sense
I remember a family actually reached out to a Brazilian true crime CZcamsr (not a beauty guru. Her name is Jaqueline Guerreiro) to help shine light into a case that was getting cold.
Nick: making valid points on the ethics of the monetization of true crime/makeup videos
Chat: piano cat
hey man, thank you for facilitating discussion like this. i think its so cool and you're really one of the only creators who uses their platform this way. you provide such a neutral space for actual discussion and the live chat makes it so much more productive. anyways, i like the videos you've been doing!
I don’t really think there’s an issue with this as long as they’re only speaking on the case; and handling it in a sensitive matter. I doubt every single true crime doc or show reaches out to victims families, unless they’re interviewing them. We just can’t get upset at *everything*
My tv stays on the ID channel, always watching true crime, yet I’ve learned of some really interesting cases from some of these channels.
I generally just like basic true crime channels like Coffeehouse Crime, where he focuses so much on the victim’s backstory rather the suspect.