Felix Hernandez Saved Cy Young Voters from Themselves | Baseball Bits
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- čas přidán 13. 05. 2024
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There have been some brutal MLB Cy Young snubs throughout baseball history. From the Bartolo Colon Cy Young over Johan Santana in 2005, which could have erased the chances of a Johan Santana Hall of Fame induction, MLB Cy Young voters used to put a lot of weight into a pitcher's win/loss record, as well as their team's record.
Along came Felix Hernandez. He grabbed the 2010 Felix Hernandez Cy Young award with just 13 wins and 12 losses! This was surprising considering just how bad the 2010 Seattle Mariners offense was, as they scored just 513 runs despite the best efforts of Ichiro. It's safe to say that there wasn't much Felix Hernandez run support, as the Felix Hernandez Mariners had one of the worst offenses of all time.
Still, King Felix was able to defeat both David Price and CC Sabathia in the 2010 Cy Young race, which set the table for multiple Jacob deGrom Cy Young awards. The sabermetrics and analytics favored both King Felix and deGrom despite their records, so I would say it's a good thing that they won.
I also talk about the Cy Young award predictors from Bill James and Tom Tango.
I hope you all enjoy this episode of Baseball Bits, a Foolish Baseball production!
Steve DelVecchio on Sabathia: larrybrownsports.com/baseball...
Bill James Cy Young Predictor: www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung
Tom Tango Cy Young Predictor: www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-b...
Maxo Bandcamp: maxoisnuts.bandcamp.com/
Maxo Soundcloud: / maxoelectronic - Sport
Why was it named after Cy Young when he never won the award himself? Seems like a poor decision
Roberto Clemente never won a Roberto Clemente award.
Lou Gehrig did it right.
Obviously it should be named the Old Hoss Radbourn Award.
Bill Russell never won Finals MVP. Overrated!!!!
@@Ofallthings089 Ooh, that's morbid. Lol
"His 285 lbs of twisted steel and sex appeal" BARS
facts
We have Chris Jericho to thank for that line.
lordofice72 Actually, first time I heard that used was by Gino Hernandez in the early 80s.
@@joshkeller206 I stand corrected. Side note Geno would have been one of the greatest wrestlers of all time had he not tragically passed away.
@@shadowperson779 late reply but I agree. Gino would of been (in my opinion) the best Heel of the 80s. Sadly his demons and outside influences killed him in the end.
The Degrom "Has not murdered a teammate this season" graphic cracked me up for a solid 30 seconds, absolutely hilarious.
You can thank @MeekPhill_ for that one
I don’t get it. What does it mean?
Daytwa Qua I don’t get it
@@jaxendieterle4220 DeGrom got such terrible run support from his teammates, so the joke is that he would want to murder them for not scoring runs
Kyle Kishimoto thnx
I feel like Felix gets respected less just because he played on the mariners
I was pretty shocked by some of the stats when I did research on this video. He was honestly even better than I remember.
The Mariners ruined the guys career. And I'm a Mariners fan
Hes gonna be a hall of famer for sure
It's less that he lacked respect, but more he wasn't as well known. It had little to do with disrespect as much as player marketing. I, as Foolish mentioned, was shock to see his career stats. But I always knew he was very good. I was unaware he was THAT good. Granted, I tend to follow the NL more closely.
Jon Bois will explain soon
"Substantial Seductive" [chef's kiss]
theunwelcome Best comment I’ve read in weeks😂
"Felix had stayed in Seattle, and he'd given this team and these fans every piece of himself, until there wasn't much of anything left. The team was going to move on. When he took the mound for the last time, everyone knew it was the last time.
It's true that his final start was a loss that dropped his record to 1-8 on the season, that he allowed 5 hits and 4 walks in 5 innings and change, and that the Mariners were lucky to only be losing 3-1 when he left the mound. It's true that just weeks later, the Washington Nationals would win a championship, leaving the Seattle Mariners as the only team in Major League Baseball that has never even appeared in a single World Series.
But when I watch him say goodbye, and when I watch the King's Court pour out enough love to last him through whatever comes next, I mean, who gives a shit?"
Who said that??
@@danballe A video series on the history of the seattle mariners by jon bois and alex rubenstein
@@dedeath Secret Base, I know.
Man I loved Felix. I’m a little too young to remember Griffey and Edgar. All Seattle legends in my book. HoF or not
Which is why this year, our year, god forbid a home game happens in the playoffs, I hope to God the first two weeks of Seahawks games look like a dolphins game because there is an ALCS next door
“Jacob deGrom
Has not Murdered a teamate this season
Longest single-season streak in Mets history”
12:30
I honestly don't know I just thought it was funny that he put that in there
@Jonathan Stiles I think the joke is just that his teammates aren't helping him out; he's winning very few games.
Jonathan Stiles It’s a joke regarding Degroms HISTORICALLY low run support in his 2018 Cy Young Campaign. Where he won just 10 games, while starting 33 games, 27 of them of 2 run or lower.
FOr the lulz
in 2018 there were 19 times where Jacob pitched at least 5 innings (15 of those instances he pitched at least 7 innings) and allowed 1 or no earned runs. His amount of premium starts nearly doubled his win total. Over the course of his career, he has allowed 1 or no runs 79 times but only has 66 wins. And yet he never throws teammates under the bus in post game interviews. He doesn’t try to distance himself from the team in losses. Everyone wins or everyone loses. He says he only focuses on what he can control one pitch at a time. He’s calm and in control on and off the field and the definition of a team player
Felix was one of the most dominant pitchers of his era, but feel like he constantly got overshadowed
Playing for shitty teams did that. As much as I respect him sticking it out with on team for so long, he should've followed what Halladay ended up doing. Halladay was a great pitcher during his time with the Blue Jays (very similar to the Mariners), but became legendary once he went to the Phillies because he was able to pitch for one of the best teams in baseball, and of course his playoff moments.
Nobody cares about the West Coast unless you are winning. Or a Laker.
Go Pro that’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard. The dodgers are a top 5 franchise in baseball, arguably top 3. 49ers are also a premier franchise in the football. Other teams like the raiders and giants also have huge followings, especially the raiders even when they’re losing.
Daniel he said people don’t care about west coast teams UNLESS they’re winning
ErickIsNotAmazing I know, which is stupid. First of all every team loses relevance when they’re losing, but those sports franchise I just listed have huge fan bases whether they are winning or losing
substantial seductive now that is fantastic
Had to pull out the thesaurus for that one
Fat Fu.... uhh... never mind on that one
Fat Ferociously Beautiful
@@FoolishBaseball lol
I have arrived to say
Gigantic Gorgeous
Foolish: "okay, well I guess it's time to do a video on Felix n-"
*Sadman drops video*
"It's fine, just funny timing between two people."
*Sb nation drops video*
In the distance: "JON BOIS, JON BOIS, JON BOIS"
"Oh crud"
That's basically what happened
Foolish Baseball I’m not saying I would always take a seemingly endless stream of M’s content over real-life baseball, but this is the best M’s fans have had it since 2001.
@@FoolishBaseball have you ever talked to Jon Bois?
I wonder what a jon bois foolish baseball and jomboy video would be like
Shouldve mentioned Felix's grand slam against Johan in 2008 missed opportunity
Or his perfecto, the only one of those in Mariners history.
the past 2 weeks on youtube has been the most love the mariners have ever received
Exciting times for ms fans, we dont even have to watch them lose
@@portland9880 the best part
Weird times, Straaaaange days indeed fellow youtuber watchers, What can I say
5:23 Hey look! It's the ball Pujols hit off Lidge!
I knew it! From I already forgot how many videos ago
Joaquin McGee No, its the ball Bonds hit in the 02 World Series...
Its bartolo's
As a Mariners fan, this made me smile, even through decades of pain :’)
we gonna see some glorius tanking in the comming years ;_; until our talent can be wasted again when they get promoted
@@MrTomcon82 it's looking good now..
Even though I'm an Angels fan, I will admit he deserved it and is one of the best pitchers of our generation
I always just wished we had a better team to back Felix up
Prime Yohan Santana was DIFFERENT bro, rarely have I heard him talked about since like 2013
It's unfair. At his peak his performance compared to the league average was actually close to inner-circle worthy. For instance, from 2004 to 2010, his ERA was 2.87. Not really eye-popping, except that that was 34.2% lower than league average during that span. Only ten people have bested that mark over a seven-year span, and they're either in the Hall of Fame, a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame (Clayton Kershaw), or would already be in the Hall of Fame were it not for steroid use (Roger Clemens).
@@MetFanMac Honestly, he reminds me a lot of Pedro Martinez's career. They were both completely untouchable at the peaks of their careers, but those peaks sadly didn't last as long as we would have liked.
@nate0560 Pedro was at a whole other level. *His* seven-year peak (1994-2000) had him post an ERA 40% lower than league average, fifth all time. If partial seasons such as his 2001 were allowed into the calculation, he would have been in first place by an absurd margin at well over 50% (Greg Maddux, the all-time leader, had an ERA 47.6% lower than average). In fact, narrowing the peak to a four-year span puts Pedro comfortably in first, while Santana drops to a still very respectable 19th. I will note that Felix Hernandez's own seven-year peak (2008-2014) lands him at 13th all time, two spots behind Santana.
@@MetFanMac I didn't mean he was as good as Pedro. I would only do that for the greatest pitchers of all time. I just meant that he reminded me of how Pedro was so vastly superior to other pitchers in his peak, but just couldn't sustain a long career in the same way guys like Verlander have.
@nate0560 Oh, sure. I just can't help reminding people how bonkers Pedro's peak was.
"Fast-ball"
"Sli-der"
"Curve-ball"
"Sin-ker"
"Change-up"
Seattle Mariners, wasting young potentials since 1989.
They really have wasted several H.O.F. players
Tale as old as time. At least they kept Felix around.
The Suns of baseball.
They’ve been doing it longer than that
Hopefully it finally stops in these coming years with Dipoto. At least he knows a bit about what he’s doing rather than the previous GMs that killed Ichiro, Felix, and many others careers by giving them nothing to play around.
Bless you
King Fuzzy!
It’s my 2 favorite youtubers
@@FoolishBaseball who?
I just clicked the link in your description to get here
Achoo
We needed a global pandemic to finally get what we deserved, a feature on the Man, the Myth, The Big Sexy himself, Bartolo Colon
Big Sexy? Never heard that nickname.
Foolish Baseball He means large attractive
*Large Attractive
You mean gorgeous gargantuan?
Copious Casanova
He’s the reason DeGrom even gets to win the award, I’m glad the Mets can’t fully ruin it for him like the mariners tried for King Felix. Great vid as always the has not murdered a teammate killed me
"Part of what made Felix so effective is that he threw five different pitches with regularity." *_immediately plays a song in 5/4_*
Little details like that are what make me love these videos.
I did catch that, then again it s 1 am and my brain is mush
Nonetheless, Thank you kind Sir!
5:47
12:17 That Kate Upton tweet is pure gold
Bartolo's Cy Young is such a joke. Which makes sense, since he literally exists as a living meme.
I’m so happy I am a Mariners fan so I was able to see Felix pitch every 5 days.
You also had big unit, arod and ken griffey jr back in the day
@@ladistar also ichirooo
The fans didn't "elect to send 11 pitchers not named Félix Hernández" to the All-Star Game. Fans don't vote on pitchers.
Dominic Snyder I was gonna comment on this. Good catch.
I figured someone else had caught this!
“substantial seductive” is one of the best things i’ve heard in a while. You win sir😂
As a venezuelan fan of your channel, seeing a video of King Felix and Johan Santana almost make my cry
We need a Jon Bois X Foolish Baseball collab
"Substantial Seductive" Hahahahahahaha ok ya got me there. I thought large attractive was a good 1 this nickname is way sexier
Riddle me this.... how did Cy Young never win a Cy Young Award!? What a snubbing. /s
Great video, as it’s seemingly perpetual at this point. Considering your emphasis on sabermetrics, maybe a video on how the ball has changed over time (Deadball, 1920s-1930s, 2019, etc.) would be cool
That's a cool idea!
Nice comment dingers
Grayson Beckham Who is this?
Dingers5Days legend
Grayson Beckham ok
I liked the video because you gave Felix’s 8-bit avatar his iconic tilted cap
Not an easy feat!
Foolish Baseball is the small details that make the biggest differences
“Has not murdered a teammate this season - longest single season streak in Mets history” hahahahaha
Mariners fans must love the exposure their team has gotten in the past couple of weeks
it feels weird and i'm scared
I for one love it. The last time the M’s were in a playoff spot, I was only 1 year old!
As a twins fan I thank you for talking about johan Santana correctly
He deserves Cooperstown
I saw him pitch live that year against the Red Sox, I still remember his poise and I was so happy he won the CY Young. I still feel like I was a part of history and I will always cherish that. Thanks for bringing that memory back to me!
Congratulations on 100K. Foolish Baseball leads CZcams in WAR.
“Thankfully, Zack Greinke can’t hear them over the sound of him swinging his samurai sword” lmao
3 thoughts
1) Thank you Felix for allowing my favorite pitcher in the last 10 years (deGrom) to win the cy twice
2) I HAVE ALWAYS COMPD JOHAN SANTANA TO SANDY KOUFAX AND IT IT FINALLY RECOGNIZED.
3) Thank you, @foolishbb for your best video yet! :)) This is my favorite baseball channel by a landslide :))
Can’t get enough of this channel. Just brilliantly done!
I'm so happy you showed the entire Colon home run vid. The only baseball vid I have permanently saved on my cellphone. Glorious.
I NEEDED THIS IN MY LIFE!
We could all use a little baseball, especially now.
As a Twins fan this video including Johan is bittersweet. I’m so happy he’s getting the recognition he deserves as one of the best pitchers of the early 2000s, I just wish voters had paid attention to his performance and talent alone rather than the overall performance of the team.
My favorite baseball channel doing a video on my favorite season from my favorite pitcher on my favorite team. This is wonderful.
Your videos are amazing! Thanks for keeping me sane with no baseball. Keep up the great work.
7:44 the fans dont vote on pitchers
oop
Makes it even more a snub. The baseball establishment, who should be in the know, didn't recognize him, apparently.
I was about to post the same comment. I was surprised Foolish Baseball didn't already know this.
7:37
@@michaelcebulski4916 Not really. Back then, the manager picked most of the pitchers without any input from MLB. One man is never going to be as good as a group at making these kinds of choices, let alone how the managers' picks have historically been biased in favor of their own players.
Hope you enjoyed this one! I hope you'll consider supporting me via Patreon if you're able. Otherwise, watching, liking, and sharing the video helps me out big time as well! www.patreon.com/foolishbaseball
Also I'm going to have to issue a correction for 7:35. Fans don't select All-Star game pitchers. My sincerest apologies to everyone who was a baseball fan in 2010. You can quote me on that.
Maybe he'll have a comeback season with the braves
Congrats for 100k subscribers! Enjoy!
Your video format is so dope 🤙🏽
Great content man. You deserve more recognition.
Big time.
Kinda started with Grienke in 2009 though, 2010 is what really test the voters further.
Zack is my spirit animal
Lol this reminds me of the 2004 NL Cy Young voting. Roger Clemens had a 18-4 record with a 2.98 ERA with 218 k 79 BB and a 1.157 WHIP. That’s pretty good. But Randy Johnson has a 16-14 record with 290 k 44 BB and a 0.9 WHIP and a war of 8.4 compared to Clemens’s 5.4 but Clemens was on a 92-70 Astros team while Johnson was on the 51-111 Dbacks team (I’m a Dbacks fan so I suffered a whole lot that year) and thus Clemens won the 04 Cy Young
I always forget Houston was in the NL, even though they literally won the NL pennant that one time not too far back.
@@2011SoxMD36 I always forget they play in the AL now!
Hey Foolish,
Love your stuff! I have a request: I know you’ve done a deep dive into Pedros outstanding two seasons. Can you do a video on the most unhittable pitches from individual pitchers repertoire? I’ve seen other videos on this subject but not done to the depth that you do and expertise. Thanks!
The video game theme to your video is super fitting considering the Seattle Mariners used to be owned by nintendo
please make a video describing Angel Hernandez in full detail, it would be cool to see your opinion on him, also maybe provide reason for why Mlb still has him
Thank you for pointing out statistically what we Mariners fans have known for a long time, the King had to basically throw 9 inning shutouts to stand any chance of winning WAY too many times in his career.
The fact he was probably the best pitcher for a decade is crazy to think about cause he never got the pub due to his team....king felix indeed....reminds me of prime kg in minnesota...one of the most complete players ever with the heart hustle leadership but didn't have the right team to win it all..
As a Mariners fan I thank the CZcams baseball community. Has been incredible to see all the Ms content recently. We don't get much attention and especially with the virus going on I was disappointed to have to wait longer on our prospects. Thanks for getting us through these tough times as well FB !
I try! I attempted to make a Mariners video that wasn't crazy cathartic or anything. Just wanted to celebrate a nice memory from an otherwise really bad stretch of Mariners baseball.
Bailey to tell you the truth this is probably your best video man amazing job like always
You need to do a video with Jon bois
who?
@@FoolishBaseball you should look him up. He's pretty good.
@@benpeterson4673 I believe it might be sarcasm. There's hardly anyone in this community that doesn't know the legend jon bois, and he gets asked to collaborate quite frequently on his videos:D
@@gintuner4371 I legitimately don't know if I'm a victim of Poe's law or talking to a victim of it.
"And for the stat nerds, we will always 13 W & 12 L"
Ohh and for us Latinoes that watch baseball the second one to get a Perfect Game (+ 1 Unperfect one)
I always enjoy your work!
Foolish Baseball making a video about them, Sadman Baseball making a video about them, and SB Nation making a six part documentary on them. Us Mariners fans are really getting spoiled in quarantine.
2005:
Colon: I'm bringing sexyback.
Cy Young voters: Take my money!
Seeing Jim Abbott in the most inning pitched stat for players under 25 makes me think that you should make a video about him because of how cool his story is with him only having one arm and still being able to get cy young votes and to throw a no hitter.
To be fair, he had two arms. He was missing a hand, not a whole arm like your message reads. lmao
Felix Hernandez is the reason I became a pitcher. It was an absolute dream growing up going to games and just watch him dominate. An absolute legend, excited to see what he does in Atlanta, his spring numbers look like a healthy Felix to me!
Dude I love the 8 bit ball players. Well done.
Verlander still got robbed of the CY Young by Porcello in 2016, despite being a greater pitcher and Porcello having the advantage of playing for the Red Sox
Definitely agree, but it wasn't a robbery up to the standards of the past. They were reasonably close, but I do think Verlander was more deserving.
The 2016 AL Cy Young race is one of the strangest award races ever. Verlander or Kluber got robbed of a 3rd cy young.
@@harrisonalexander6203 and by goddamn Rick Porcello of all pitchers!
Poor comments… its so lonely…
What happened?
Sort by newest and it looks like they're all still here
@5:23 love to see the pujols home run ball continue towards the deep edges of the universe
I’ve always wanted a video about this topic. When I’m searching around baseball reference and found pitchers with wins been the deciding factor but that disappearing recently, with degrom winning this year in the nl dispite his record.
never been this early. mike trout good
You were first!
Wow. What a take for first comment.
@@FoolishBaseball He's not wrong
Ngl, but Maxo's music slaps and just makes sense with your editing. This is amazing
Thank you so much for this video man. Huge Ms fan and Felix fan (named my first dog King). My buddies always try to bash him for the last two ish years, but you gotta respect the King!
Substantial Seductive, Foolish you are outstanding!
You can thank the thesaurus for that one
Loved the Secret Base reference.
thanks for doing a video about the history of the cy youn... i mean, old hoss radbourn award.
Your channel is great!! Glad I found it again. Made sure to subscribe this time.
Edit: Ask the players who they would rather bat against. Bet most of em didn't want anything to do with Felix!!
I kind of assumed the sbnation series would talk about this season in detail, now I’m interested to see what they’ll do
Love your videos. Best baseball analysis on the webs
Thank you!
Reminds me when Jose Quintanna was on the white Sox some years ago he couldn't get any run support
You seriously make some of the best content on CZcams.
Sometimes the CZcams algorithm misses the boat, but today the recommended videos after this one are all jon bois and summoningsalt. Great video!
Yeah that seems about right!
this channel is so under rated
Almost 100k subs 🤘🏻 Locastro would be proud
Good shit my dude
You channel is so excellent. Even the comments section is good. u wizard.
Hey foolish baseball I just wanted you to know I have never watched a single game of baseball but every single one of your videos are great and very interesting
Hey, thanks Alex! I'd tell you to start watching baseball, but the MLB season is on quarantine!
I love that Bartolo has a new version of his nickname every time I watch.
as a Chinese who rarely watch baseball, your video is my reason to start care about baseball! keep it coming, I hope there are more about recent player like King felix.
Eyyy ur about to get to 100K !!! 👌👌👏🏻
Thank you for getting his change up correct. People still think it's a slider.
Your videos are so great!
I just came to this video after watching part 3 of that Mariner's series. I love John Bois and Alex. But that caught me off guard lol.
To be fair it's not just those decades where we were weirdly obsessed with relievers. We saw it recently. while he is the best closer of all-time in no world should a closer have been the first ever unanimous selection into the Hall of Fame with Rivera.
Felix was the most criminally under supported pitcher in the modern era
Your videos help quarantine time stay entertaining
That's what I was hoping for
Time to invent some new stats! These are really simple, I promise.
Expected wins (XW): Pitcher's decisions × team's winning percentage
Wins above expected (WAX): Pitcher's wins - expected wins
I see WAX as a better alternative to assess pitchers than straight-up wins and definitely way better than winning percentage. It's not a single metric to define a pitcher's success, but it can be combined with ERA+ and other more basic stats to give us a good overall assessment of a pitcher's performance. And we find that in the American League in 2010 there was only one qualified pitcher who topped Hernandez in both ERA+ and WAX: Boston's Clay Buchholz, who posted a 187 ERA+ and 3.81 WAX in 173⅔ innings, compared to Felix's 174 and 3.59 in 249⅔. But Hernandez nearly doubled Buchholz' strikeout total and had a significantly lower WHIP across his higher workload (and actually had a lower ERA too, but y'know, Fenway). Other than that the only competition would be David Price of the Rays even if you want to lower the innings criteria down to, say, 50 to include some relievers and down-rotation guys. CC Sabathia had a good season, but his ERA and WHIP were higher than the King's despite 4.58 WAX.
this shoulda got more attention this is well written
i remember listening to the perfect game over the radio with my mom in the car. we we’re freaking the fuck out it was such a cool thing to experience live with rick rizz on the call.
Foolish, we pray one day you’ll give us what we truly need. A Big Sexy Baseball Bits. I had no idea how good Felix was until today so thank you either way
Glad you enjoyed the video! Keep praying.
The best pitcher with 20 wins on a playoff team should be named the Jack Morris Award
So close to 100k Congrats
It’s Walt the goat!
7:12 but we’re in good hands as he leads the division in 8th inning doubles on cloudy days in even years!
Tbh your channel is very underrated