Using the Behringer Model D
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2018
- Comments on the Behringer Model D, programming sounds (chords, bass, and leads), and a demo made with the sounds that I programmed.
15:50 - Jump right to the demo song.
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00:07 - What it is/product description.
01:37 - A critique/comment.
04:02 - Programming a chord patch.
09:04 - Programming a bass patch.
11:07 - Programming a lead patch.
15:50 - All the patches together in a song.
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Twitter: / erikhawk
Sysex is only to change settings for the CV/MIDI conversion, it's not to control parameters of the synth itself. The pots are not digitally encoded in any way to allow for this. It could have been easily done when designed, but it would add to the cost and introduce it's own problems (like stepping)
Personally I don't care much about MIDI CCs, presets or any of that nonsense. It's part of the charm of having an analogue synth.
Yup, good points. I realize there's the cost to consider, though it would have been nice if they had designed it in such a way that MIDI CC could have been added later. Oh well, hard to complain at this price!
Erik Hawk Midi CC is not something that would be easy to add later. It needs to be designed into the circuit from the start. Even Moog's new $3500 Minimoog D doesn't do that. The Behringer Model D provides some external CV inputs for external control of some of its parameters so if you have a Midi to CV converter (such as a Kenton, Doepfer, etc), then you could control those parameters in realtime from your computer. Looks like pitch, filter, loudness, LFO rate can be controlled that way... The Roland SE-02 ($500 enhanced Minimoog clone) has patch storage, so it may also include Midi CC capability (download manual to find out). Perhaps you should have considered the Roland instead.
The MIDI to CV converter is a great solution.
@@Elhardt what have you been up to lately? AH hasn't been the same without you
@@ErikHawk oddly enough, berhinger makes one (or did) as a eurorack module. They *could* have added one directly to maintain the pure analog path, and patched it internally as a cheat, but it woild have added cost/complexity.
This very clear demo of this synth is among the most useful tutorials on the tube. And very correct about the need for a patch library. Thanks for the work.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting.
Thanks this is very helpful for a beginner like me. I like the lead synth track in your mix, pulls the composition together nicely.
Thank you! Thanks for letting me know, I'm glad that you found it helpful. Have fun!
Over time I have had three Minimoogs. When I first heard Daniel Fisher's review od the Behringer on the Sweetwater site, I ordered one. Now I have it, and I love it. It is really a Mini without a keyboard in every way. Frankly, it doesn't get much use because it is a monosynth and even if I had a Monimoog sitting in my studio there isn't much I would do with it today. However, when I'm in the mood for early Tangerine Dream type sequencing, the Model D comes out of the closet and lets me pretend that I'm Christopher Franke and it's 1976 all over again.
This is brilliant well done I really appreciate this lesson 👍🏻☝️👍🏻
You're welcome. Thanks for watching.
Very nice video and sounds!
Thanks for watching and listening :-)
Thx Erik
if I'm not mistaken, the overdrive knob u were playing with, does nothing unless your feeding a ext in... for example from the mainout with a patch cable?
It's akready routed and gets pronounced over 50%
You need to treat this as a real analogue instrument rather than a digital tool. That's when it will start inspiring your music making
What do you mean?
@@Pai3000 Like a guitar or ukulele
@Erik Hawk how do you connect the lpk25 to the behringer model d, via a computer? Mine is not being triggered despite being all set on midi channel 1.
First make sure that your DAW is sending MIDI notes to the Model D. Set up a MIDI track, assign its output to the Model D. Then use your DAW's Pencil Tool to program some notes on your MIDI track. If the MIDI track plays your Model D you're halfway there! You need to make this side of the connection is working first, then you can troubleshoot your LPK MIDI controller.
For polyphonic I sample my model D into chameleon sampler on my iPad, then I can play big fat polyphonic chords etc. Also by sampling your patches you can build up a library of your favourite patches.
You record the model D into Reason or bounce in?
Could you make a video about how to record this synth into Reason?
Just use the factory stock midi device in reason . Find the right midi channel and make sure you have the audio going out from the model going into your interface. You have to have midi out from your keyboard controller going into the in port of the model d. I’ve found that using the model d and the Roland se 02 is most user friendly and quick for me using reason. For me .. hope this helps
great job on the song!
Thank you! Thanks for listening 😃
Very nice!
Thanks for watching!
I can't get mine to make a sound apart from the tuning tone. Very frustrated. MIDI channel is set the same on my controller, oscillators are on and volume is up, brand new midi cable. Is it broken?
So you're just using a MIDI cable to your MIDI controller, right? No computer involved? In this case, assuming the Boog is working, it might be the MIDI cable, your MIDI connections, or the MIDI controller keyboard. Got to track down each one, one at a time. Also, you might try USBing the Boog into your computer and sending it some MIDI notes from your DAW program. Just another way to check if it's working correctly. Good luck.
Great stuff! Greetings from Brasil
Thanks for watching!
It wont react to Midi CC because it's a true analoge machine. Only _digital_ components can be operated by Midi (the "D" in midi stands for Digital). So we can absolutely forget about Behringer ever updating this machine to Midi CC's because that is technically _impossible_ .
Sure, but many other modern VCO based synths respond to MIDI CC, so clearly this is possible with today's technology. Also, the manual says that it responds to MIDI SysEx... so this makes no sense? Can you explain this?
I do not know exactly what can be set via _sysex_ but the other synths that you talk about (probably) have digital oscillators to which digital information is sent to set, for instance, pitch. So that can also be done via Midi. The Boog (Behringer Moog Model D) has potmeters that do _not_ send digital info to the oscs. That is, other sysnths have "digital" potmeters (if there is such a thing) that send a number between 1 and 128 (or two times 1 to 128 for the left hand and right hand side of the knob for a "precision" between 1 and 256).
P.S. I glanced quickly through the sysex part of the Boog's manual, but there's not a lot that can be set via _sysex_ . You cannot dial a knob for instance.
Definitely not DCOs. For example, the Moog Sub37. I’ve even got a 1985 Sequential Multitrak that can be modified to respond to MIDI CC. Though all of these units do store patches, so perhaps this is the key circuitry that would allow for deeper MIDI implementation. Oh well, if it’s not possible with the Boog, bummer. Perhaps somebody will offer an upgrade kit. I can dream! :-)
You can do this with VCOs, but you have to plan this beforehand. The knobs then don't connect directly to the synth, but their settings are read through an A/D converter. The MIDI data can come in straight in digital of course. Then you use a D/A converter to make a control voltage out of the MIDI + knob settings, and you send that to the VCOs, VCFs and the like. It is possible, but you need to plan this ahead, it's not exactly practical to do a mod/upgrade kit at this stage. Hard to tell from the top of my head, but the cost of adding the additional circuitry would be like $30-50 more in production. SysEx is a whole another thing. If you support MIDI (even just keyboard), you can support SysEx for free (just write the software) as well, no additional circuits required. The thing is SysEx is what you want it to be. In the case of the Behringer, it only does stuff like setting note priority. This is exactly the same as in Arturia MicroBrute (I believe it's the case with the MiniBrute as well). The way this works is your chip that handles MIDI also gets settings of "which note to pass further to the synth". It doesn't require you to produce additional voltages from MIDI for each knob. See?
Great info! Thank you.
MC 505 up in the right corner is a nice underated piece of hardware!
Totally, I love the MC-505. I need to fix the LED screen on mine.
Sounds pretty good
That's kind'a what I thought too. Though there are those that would hate on Behringer just because it's Behringer. But really, listen first and don't judge a book by itse cover :-)
Erik Hawk It sounds exactly the same. It’s a 1:1 copy. I listen to a lot of videos of synths and comparisons between them. There are plenty of differences between analogs, analogs and digitals and analogs and virtual analogs. However I needed to listen 5 minutes to determine that the Boog was exactly the same as the Minimoog.
Sweet!
Thanks for watching! I've got the new K-2 (Korg MS20 clone) in the mail, can't wait to do a video on this next one too. Wow, Behringer is just killing it.
What input/output do I use to connect this with a mixer/audio interface to connect this with Studio One or Ableton live?
I have an mbox mini 2 interface.
I suggest Output High.
@@ErikHawk I'm sorry I'm fairly new to audio engineering...What's Output High?
@@Bass_Levelz There are two outputs labeled on the back of the Model D, High and Low. The High is for mixers and the input to an audio interface. The Low is for plugging into effects, like guitar effect pedals.
Thanks for sharing what’s the difference between that Behringer Model D and the Behringer Poly D is it just the Poly D has a keyboard and Sequencer and ARP.
As I understand it, the Poly D is basically two Model Ds together with the keyboard. The Model D is monophonic, the Poly D is duophonic. Hope this helps.
@@ErikHawk Thanks for the info yes I remember the Model D Monophonic in the early 1970’s I was only 14 back then and couldn’t afford it if I remember it was about £775 or £885 UK Pounds so I should be able to get the Rick Wakeman sounds like on Journey To The Centre Of The Earth or The Six Wives Of Henry V111.
Great introduction video BUT how do you hook it up to a midi keyboard? I just got mines yesterday.
If you don't know basics like this, why did you buy it anyway??
Synthesizer Home to learn?
@@johnblunt1313 learning comes first in my book
How can he learn to ride a bike without buying a bike ? Why couldnt you just help him instead of making yourself feel superior in knowledge like you’ve never had a question in your life I guess that’s my question for you ?
What DAW are you using ? In general you need to take a midi cable and connect it to your model D’s “ midi in” port. The other end of the midi cable should be connect to your” midi out” port of your keyboard controller. Also make sure your audio cable outs are going into the audio in of your interface. This is just a general basic without me knowing your set up. Google around and read the manual. It also gives you connectivity tips. Hope this helps
Are you just running a USB B to USB B cable from your controller to the Model D? If so, does this power your controller alone or do you have a controller with its own power source? Been having some issues. Bought USB A to B adapter which is most likely killing my power?
There's a computer and a powered USB hub in between. Both the MIDI controller and the Model D go USB to the hub. If you want to connect a MIDI controller directly to the Model D, you'll want to use a standard MIDI cable. In this scenario, both the MIDI controller and the Model D will need their own independent wall wart power supplies.
@@ErikHawk Is there a particular hub that you recommend? Don't wanna buy the wrong thing, as i am prone to do, ha. thanks a lot for the information
@@FetusWenus Try the one that Sweetwater recommends, www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/USB3Hub-7--startech-7-port-usb-3.0-hub-desktop-wall-mountable
Very nice, still sounds nice a month later 👊
Thanks for watching and commenting. Much appreciated.
What software are you using to tune? Is that a vst plugin?
That's actually the Tuner function right in Reason. It's automatically on of every audio track in Reason.
Can the LFO at least respond to MIDI clock ?????
what do you use to find out what note you are on?
The tuner software in the corner is from the Reason 10 (Propellerhead) DAW.
Hey Eric If I remember correctly, I took am online music production coarse and you were my teacher.. Was it Berkeley online? It's been...... 15 years maybe wow
Wow, that is cool! I only teach with Berklee so yeah it was probably Berklee Online. Hope you still remember the music production techniques! ;-)
I know someone probably answered you already why you cannot have midi CC on this synth... *reads the comment from "Mister Shledge"
Beat me to it.
Otherwise good video :) Im getting mine soon, been in synth for over 10 years and this will be my 2nd analogue synth (to the Roland J8XP)
Thanks for watching.
Hye Does this model have ring modulation?
Nope, not as I understand ring modulation. synthesizeracademy.com/ring-modulator/ Thought the Behringer 2600 does have a ring mod circuit.
First like lol! Got hear early. Great job
Nice track.Good to see you using Reason
Very very nice tips as much as i think i know making the use of monosynths inside out, i really took something away from this video 👍👍👍
Thanks man! That means a lot coming from you Adam. Thank you for watching. I hope I get to play one of your synths someday! ;-)
Erik Hawk Well hats off to you for this little presentation. 🎩🎩. Maybe one day ill get one of my designs commercially available 😊😊
What is the usb plugged into?
The USB is plugged directly into the computer. It's the MIDI from the computer.
@@ErikHawk
Thanks I thought so. I figured it out and got it working
how do you set it up with windows plllleaaase
You should be able to just plug the MIDI in and Windows will load the drivers if needed. Then open your DAW, create a MIDI track and assign the MIDI track's output to the Model D's MIDI device. That's the MIDI connection, then you'll need to connect the Model D's audio output to your audio interface's input to hear it. Have fun!
@@ErikHawk after 16 hours i got it working lol thank you
@@bachelorgamer8001 Awesome, congratulations. One thing good about troubleshooting your set up yourself is that you won't forget what you learned! We all go through this.
This fella didn’t notice that throughout the whole video Osc3 had the CV from the keyboard switch turned off. That’s why it was droning.
Hey, that's a good one! Thanks for catching that :-)
Ditto
I bought the model Behringer D, and also the Arturia keystep. But I do not hear the sound. As I bought amazon here in the USA, we never know if it's working. The Manual does not explain how the rear MIDI controllers should be. How should they stay, all down how did it come? I did not test the A-440 and heard that sound. but there is no sound when I play the keyboard / controller. Do you think it could be a device defect? thank you
If you can hear the A440 the output works. But you might not hear anything if the parameters are set so that they're not producing audio. Find a patch to copy (Reverb.com had some free Model D patches), plug in your MIDI controller keyboard (MIDI Out of the keyboard to MIDI In on the Behringer). Also, make sure that the MIDI controller keyboard is transmitting on the same MIDI channel that the Behringer is receiving. That should be it. Good luck!
@@ErikHawk Thank you very much! I'll check it in the Reverb.com.
@@zemarceloalencar6716 You're welcome. And here is a link to those patches, reverb.com/software/presets/moog/253-patches-for-minimoog-model-d-sync-exclusive
@@ErikHawk Thank you very much, Erik!
The rear dipswitches are ON in the down position. Say you put dipswitch 1 ON and on Keystep press Shift and the first key you can play the Model D on channel one.
03:05 you sound like kavanaugh: i like presets, i always liked presets .. ah beer ..
What's better than presets? Why, beer and presets! ;-)
Using the 440hz Button is much easier...
We will never see midi cc.. that’s more expensive components that aren’t in the unit.
I agree. Besides, it's the perfect hardware upgrade for Version 2 ;-)
Well your critique is not true, it does respond to filter mod CC. F*** presets, it's such a simple synth, no need for presets, just like the SH101. MOD DEPTH
- adjust the modulation depth from off to maximum. The
modulation depth can also be adjusted using the modulation wheel on a
MIDI keyboard.
Filter mod, as in the Mod Wheel? Yeah, you're right, that's CC #1... so you're correct, and I'm technically incorrect, it does respond to one CC. Obviously, I was talking about the other 127 CCs. For example, CC 7 (volume), CC 5 (portamento time), and my favorite, CC 74 (usually assigned to filter cutoff frequency). Yeah, it doesn't respond to any of those. And, I still like presets ;-)
Aaah yes, of course. I believe they are all good old analog style pots with direct connection to the circuits, there is no DAC/ADC in there, but for the price its a very very nice synth, no problems with mine so far and it sounds wonderful. Sorry about my harsh comment, actually your video is excellent. Maybe I have just gotten used to all the Behringer bashing which I think is a shame because it is actually a really good product and has a beautiful sound. I was not a fan of the newer Moogs, like the mojo had gone, big fan of oldskool sounds. As for the preset thing, I have come to dislike it, as it tends to make me lazy and not explore synths in full depth. But we are all different :)
The Little phatty and slim phatty were good examples of preset moog synths with midi CC for all parameters, but the sound was not there for me
Yeah, I really like Behringer. You can't beat it for the price and I think Behringer's quality has really improved recently. We're all a critic, ha... I wish I had built a Model D for $300!
it is a purely analog device, no SOC doing firmware emulation, hence MIDI only does CV and trigger, nothing more, using a minimal MIDI-to-CV chip, hence no MIDI CC. They actually literally copied the 1970s Moog schematics as the patents have expired.
it's a clone of the mini moog 70's synth, so no it will not have digital cc or patch memory just like the original didn't. sounds like you brought the wrong synth, you should of got a Bass Station 2.
Yeah, it's an awesome synth! You can't complain for the price. Was just saying that some patch memory and CC would have been an appreciated update to the original Model D. I mean, check out what Moog did with their new Sirin synth, it's analog but transmits CC on all knobs and will load presets from its VST software. Amazing! Of course it costs $200 more, so again it's hard to complain about the Boog for $200 less. But I do have a legitimate constructive criticism of the Boog :-)
Besides the cost adding MIDI CC patching would require a separate board inside with lots of ICs and it won't look authentic and easy to follow from historic and educational perspective when you open the case. The case is EuroRack. So that's awesome that they did not compromise the original design and feel. There are plenty of patchable synths. Maybe a model D-D (digital interface) could be a different product, but would you be willing to pay extra $200+?
Another idea is that many of the controls and signals are available to wire patching, so it makes sense to have a separate MIDI-to-wire patch board in a rack for automated control.
@@tub8r "a separate MIDI-to-wire patch board" That's a great idea! Would the CC and patches be worth and extra $200? I'd say yes. But like you said, maybe that's a different model for the future.
why buy an analog synth and complain about midi cc for your daw and presets? lol. You could just find a free Mini Moog VsT emulator and use that with a controller instead lol.
Well this is a review, which means I need to complain about something, LOL. But seriously, Moog analog synths have been responding to MIDI CC messages for years (such as the Minitaur) and Behringer has preset synths on the way (like the PRO-800). If we wait long enough Behringer will clone it :-)
hate presets
Behringer is indeed cheap. The quality is also. I had several devices from Behringer break on me. (BCR2000, BCF2000)
Yes I agree that this used to be the case. Their QC seems to have gotten better over the years, especially with the acquisition of Midas, which was really big and a huge leap forward for the comapny in terms of resources. www.digitalstudiome.com/article-2075-behringer-parent-buys-midas-klark-teknik
I’ve had my bcf2000 for ten years. Never been a problem
@@marklondon2008 BCR's are now selling used for more that their original price. It's ugly but works great as a software/VST controller