The Three Views of the Origin of the Soul
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- čas přidán 12. 02. 2023
- There is more than one view about the origin of the soul. And theologians discuss those views during Church history. But to be honest, Scripture never gives us an answer. Check this out!
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"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you..." Jeremiah 1:5
God knows everything as intimately as possible forever, as He’s eternally omniscient. He knew how many grains of dust would be in the valley of Armageddon on Christ’s return before He said “Let there be light”
Thats the one I thought of
"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the the earth" seems to argue in opposition.
@@kg4st
Agreed. And the verse mentioned in the video, “Were you the first man? Or were you brought forth before the hills?” are rhetorical questions, the obvious answer being no
@@kg4st Not really. The universe and earth were formed first, but our souls/spirits were created before we were formed in the womb. How long before? Don't know exactly. None of us in this realm know. But apparently they were according to what God/YHWH told Jeremiah.
Continued Prayer for Michael Heiser and his family. My husband and I are forever grateful for his love of teaching the lay person of the body of Christ.❤️🕊
Why are you praying for him?
He is awaiting the resurrection day?
Your prayers can't do any good or bad for him.
he's with the Lord now
Ecclesiastes 12:7:
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (King James Version, hereafter cited as KJV)
We're still praying for a miracle!! What great insight Dr Heiser has given to God's people. Pray for a miracle!!
He's dead. Your prayers weren't heard.
Such amazing insight. We will miss him do very much; God bless Dr Heiser and his family at this time.
He ain't dead yet!
When did he pass?
@@scampbell1620 As far as I know, he hasn't yet.
@@marthaj67 A while ago, I read that he had approximately two weeks left and he may have already gone home.
@@smilenein I'm sure it'll be all over the place when he goes home💖
How I love Dr. Heiser's lectures. God keep him. 🙏 A treasure trove of insights.
Dr Mike never seizes to amaze me. Who knew there was an actual scholarly answer to such a random question. Continuing to pray for a miracle in his body!
Ceases not seizes
The soul is found in the blood, ref Lev 17:11. Also study Isa 53, with regards to Jesus. This simply explains the significance of the sacrifice with blood. So much to learn and an enjoyable subject.
Blessings from South Africa.
Happy birthday🎉@Dr. Michael S. Heiser!!!
🙏🙏🙏 God has blessed us so much through your ministry!
When I had my daughter and she was laid on my belly, I felt at that moment that I had known her FOREVER! I don't know how other mothers feel, but that was and always will be my experience with a new life.
I will be forever grateful to Dr. Heiser. So much to learn from him. I have also been a believer in #3 for quite a while.
Which was that exactly?
God bless the Heiser family in this time, so sad to see, God is taking him home.
How do we know there is a home?
@@davidmathews9633There is a home. I was born with many memories. It is the place were my Soul felt the essence of what it means to be truly free and safe. Nestled in the arms of the purest form of Love beyond a brains imagination. Brilliant...there really are no words. Not even tears can express...
Nah, that text definitely doesn't argue for pre-existence.
"“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you."
" Be not decieved, there are three earth ages, the one that was, the one that is, and the one that will be.
This. Though this also points to the fact that God is outside of time and the Alpha and the Omega. He can see the beginning and the end at the same time because God is Omniscient.
@@27Zangle then why did it grieve him that he made man in the flesh?
@@christianbohls9880 Read Genesis 6:5 for your answer. It comes down to sin of man.
Remember, context is important, same with reading the entire chapter and verses before and after (part of context). Scripture didn't have all these breaks and punctuations we have today. While punctuations does help in our studies, many people get caught on a verse without doing a proper word study or reading around that verse. They also try to interpret scripture without using scripture to interpret scripture while using lenses that are blinded to their own emotions, thoughts, and current world events. Scripture was written everyone, but also you have to remember when it was written and to whom first - their culture is different than ours.
@@christianbohls9880, actually that is not correct, there have been 3 earth ages, and there will actually be 4. We are approaching the end of the 3rd, and the 4th age is a 1/2 age before the end. The 3 earth ages that was taught for many years to explain dinosaurs is a twisting of Peter’s epistles, and other scriptures.
Rest in peace sir
I will never forget the impact created in my understanding of GOD
You are a legend
Legends still live through their works
💯
❤️🛐❤️🛐❤️✝️
My heart is sad. As I write this Michael Heiser appears to be in the final weeks of his life. He has helped me so much. I am not ready for him to leave us, but God knows best. I hate cancer. It has robbed me of so many people that I love.
RIP I learned so much from him. Thank you. My prayers to his family and everyone feeling his passing.
I am always blown away with Dr. Heiser tackling all the hard questions! Love him!
May blessings be bestowed to you and your family. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
I missed him already... What a guy!
My brother! Me and the rest of my family LOVE your insight and you lectures, you have helped us understand things through the wisdom god has given you, thank you very much for what you've done for us and we all can not wait to see you in heaven. God bless, God speed brother.
We ALL thank you!
A fourth one was taught by a Methodist pastor when I was a kid: as the bodies mesh the produce a child, the souls mesh and produce a "soul child".
I’m really gonna miss this brother 😢
God bless you Michael, I pray God heals you!!!
love him .and all his teaching.
RIP Dr. Heiser you’re podcast was truly a blessing to me!
My prays are with you and your family. Thank you for helping us see and hear. May the Most High Bless you and your family.
Thank you for all your work.
It has been a great blessing to my family and me.
Love and blessings from Sydney Australia.
Been wondering about this for a long time now!
May your Birthday be full of love & blessings. We love you & Drenna❤️
God bless Michael Heiser and his family and friends. Love. ❤
Forever greatfull for his life and teachings. RIP dear brother!
The Lord blesses the church with your ministry.
May His Knowledge And Work Continue For Generations!
I kind of think they were being more rhetorical when asking those questions to Job. Kind of like when God asks him questions about being around during the creation and so on….
Any one grieving for dr. Heiser read this ; The Righteous perisheth and no man layeth it to heart, and merciful men are taken away, None considering that the Righteous are taken away for the evil to come. Isaiah 57:1. Amen. RIP. Period.
Scripture does give us a clear understanding of where the soul comes from Genesis 2:7
Dr.Michael , Along with my Bible I turn to you for the wisdom we all seek when it comes to the mysteries of God.
I am deeply saddened that your condition has taken a step backwards when we all pray for you to move forward and continue the message.
I fear death, and you have been giving me great hope and insight to collect FAITH and pray I have enough to continue living in that place called Heaven!
I do pray that strength is plentiful in your family’s time of need, God Bless
We all love you Michael. Stay strong. You are on the edge of glory. May excitement fill your heart for the meeting of God and entrance into untold mysteries. We are praying for your miraculous healing, and also that God’s will be done in your life. We love you so much, and so does God.
I just heard about Dr Michael Heiser. Thank you Dr. may your family find peace in the prince of peace. God bless!
Also, looking forward to meeting you one day sir!
Thank you. So sorry to hear of your departure from the body. I just learned of you today. I'm new to this Bible reading path, so I hope you'll pray for me from the other side. I really never saw the Bible as the loving, living Breathing Life of the Living God until a few days ago.
On reading a few scriptures they seem to separate the spirit and the breath. Happy Birthday Dr. Heiser! Prayers.
The dust of the ground plus God's breath equals a living soul, or a person. There is no immortal soul or spirit. The early church believed in conditional immortality to be obtained at the resurrection to life. This is what the Bible says. The reason there is disagreement over which is correct of the 3 theories he presented is because the premise is incorrect.
Deepest condolences to the family we pray for comfort for the love ones.. :(
God bless you
Praying for a miracle, and further strength; fast and pray!
Thank you Dr Heiser for that explanation, esp r.e. reincarnation
Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting;
The Soul that rises with us, our life’s Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting
And cometh from afar;
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Dr Heiser, Michael, I just want to say that I love you like a brother. Go to heaven without an ounce of fear. You shall be received with love and praises. Heaven is the most fantastic place. I expect to meet you in heaven one day, soon. Love. Thank you for all your beautiful work. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Also for the preexistence of the soul, we read in Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..." Now I would argue that preexistence does not mean eternal existence. I would say that the problems we run into when we try to derive the existence of the soul from physical features is that our incorruptible body is covered in corruptibility, like footstool material, that obscures our ability to see the connection. In other words, observing the physical body it is clear that our souls are embodied in some other sort of 'stuff' that preexists the physical BECAUSE the physical IS material of the sort that we are NOT MEANT TO BE COVERED IN.
Very interesting... I can't say I have given this much thought until right now. God is outside of time. We live in this construct according to His will. If we exist, we were created, and if we were created, we exist in the mind of God who is eternal. Therefore, have we not always existed?
I do wish he'll live to write many books like Bauckham & NT Wright
Not sure why, but I got a message today saying that Dr. Heiser, who I'd not heard of, had died. May he rest in peace. (It seems he strongly challenged 'ancient astronaut' ideas, for which, at the least, I respect him.)
With respect to this video, he tries to answer what he calls a simple question: "do clones have souls?" but doesn't seem to be able to provide a clear answer. I'm still left wondering how under each of the 3 definitions of 'soul' the question would be answered.
Someday we will know, like we've been known.
Awesome 😎
🙏 for a miracle.
Thank you
There is a fourth view which says that man does not _have_ a soul, he _is_ a soul (based on Genesis 2: 7). That view says that a soul is the union of a body and the breath of life. A corollary of that view is that when the breath of life leaves, the soul ceases to exist.
*dust + breath of life = soul*
*soul - breath of life = dust*
Scripture gives a very clear view of where the soul comes from, lets first check out the word soul, the etymology of this word is "existence". Therefore it says in the beginning God created.
Rip to a true father in the faith. Rest well
Put all things (and people) to the test of Scripture. Acts 17:11
Imagine all of the things that brother Heiser is learning now.
What is Dr. Heiser learning now? Nothing. Not-a-single-thing. ✴ _Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in_ [Sheol] _where you are going._ (Ecclesiastes 9: 10, NKJV)
Lately, I have been wondering, where I was before my body was created.
The scripture tells us what is a soul:
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 2:7 KJV
So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:45 ASV
I think Rupert Sheldrake's theory of morphogenetic fields can be brought to bear on the first problem. We resonate or tune into Adam's morphogenetic field upon fertilization of a unique human genome.
I guess I'm first leaning.
I figure it comes with the equipment.
Dr. Heiser needs to try Fenbendazole.
Good explanation. Can Psalm 139 be used here also?
I think it's a hypothetical and rhetorical question and the obvious answer is no. Eliphaz was trying to bring Job down from a position he thought was self-righteousness
Dang, I listened to this whole thing hoping to get an answer to a question that has plagued me for 51 years, since I was a teenager and read Ecclesiastes 12:7 for the first time.
Michael today's your lucky day. Just stumbled across your comment and thought I would offer to help.
You may agree or disagree but here's how I take Ecclesiastes 12:7
First of all the Book of Ecclesiastes is written with the Viewpoint of "man under the sun." This is earthly ungodly unspiritual unsaved man on the earth.
Some of the religious cults use Ecclesiastes for Doctrine and you can't do that.
It would be like taking Job's three friends and what they say as doctrine. Nope these things are recorded for information not doctrine.
But, if you were to break down this portion of scripture I think you would say that the theme of Ecclesiastes is that this life on earth and its worldly Pursuits are fruitless. It's a waste of time.
Ok, you can see in verse 1 that yhe author addresses the SAVED person with "remember now your creator." So this fellow in Ecclesiastes is talking about you who are SAVED.
Of course as I said, we take it with a grain of salt because the speaker is NOT saved in regards to his doctrine.
What he writes shouldn't be taken as Doctrine. It's the Viewpoint of "man under the sun" or in earth.
So anyway verse 8 "vanity of vanities says the preacher, all is vanities" because even as these worldly things are pursued, verse 7, "then shall the dust return to the earth as it was."
That's our body that God made from the earth.., the soil the dirt the dust. Our bodies are similar to the elements of the Earth in content.
But in speaking to this BELIEVER the Ecclesiastes author says the dust shall return to the Earth as it was, and everything you worked for was a waste of time because it just turns to dust.
BUT your SPIRIT shall return to GOD who gave it.
You're going to heaven to be with God.
We of course know from studying the Bible that the unbeliever Goes to Hell. He's not speaking to the unbeliever as we pointed out from verse 1.
Sorry this was long but I hope it makes sense. Your thoughts would be appreciated if I am missing something here. Thanks.
@@garyg7549 So I guess I still do not understand, did our souls exist before we were conceived ? Is there a rack of souls in heaven in line waiting for bodies ?
@@MichaelKunz-mt2oo no I think the Mormons believe that, but I don't count it as a Biblical fact.
We were conceived in our mother's womb and that was our beginning.
We did not exist before then but the confusion could be that because God is outside of time, and as looking from a rooftop down at a parade, he can see the beginning and the end and everything in between at the same time.
So when the Bible says I knew you before you were born, it's because God is outside of time.
Our entire Essence starts when we are conceived.
Our being is the man's seed plus the woman's egg combining to make one us. I hope that makes sense.
I see the idea of preexisting souls as this , if God all ways has known everything then there was not a time that he didn’t know us but we were not created till a specific time, just like Jesus being crucified from the foundation of the earth but he wasn’t human till a specific time when Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit.
Rip our brother Heiser
The Soul is the breath of life. Period. Man was and is a Creation by God ln His lmage and likeness. Period.
God Breathed into man and man Became a Living Soul. The Soul That is Living in man ls of God. Period. Amen.
Genesis. 2:7 Period.
You are right...period.
@@perseus6024 .
@@perseus6024 hahahaha
A Soul is a Lifeform's Genome. That's it. It is really that simple. This is the deeper meaning that the Bible teaches that very few realize. Everything that has DNA, has a Soul. Think of the 'Word Made Flesh.' It is information that lives on after death. The purpose of the Lake of Fire is to destroy the Soul (i.e., destroy bad genetics). Spirit is the Energy/Power/Electromagnetism, etc., that 'quickens' the Soul and creates the Body. Think of the 'Power of the Holy Ghost'. It is literally the electricity that flows within us. We are Tripartite. The Book of Life is a book of Genomes. That is what is meant by 'names written'. The names written are the Genomes of our Souls. The 'new name' written on the White Stone is a new Genome, a new Soul. It is the 'correction' to our Genetics that will clothe us with the Glorified Body. Please note that Soul is a very tangible and quantifiable thing. Soul is NOT emotions, experiences, personality, etc. It is our Spirit that contains those traits. The 'Dust of the Ground' is associated with Seed and Genetic material. God formed Man from Dust, i.e., Amino Acids and Nucleobases. Man became Soul (Genome) + Spirit (Energy). The next step was to get a physical Body. That is what the Forbidden Fruit was all about. It represented Incarnation. The Forbidden Fruit was a Zygote. It was the Egg Cell fertilized by the Seed of the Serpent. Partaking of the Forbidden Fruit represented the Moment of Conception. Adam and his Wife chose to incarnate into the beast-like Bodies we have now. We are in a fallen state.
Interesting read until you got to the end and you claimed that the forbidden fruit was a zygote 🙃 That just sounds like completely made up gibberish. Can you point to anywhere in scripture that even close to confirms this?
@@falsefreedom1713 I have been trying to respond, but they are getting deleted. Just lol at how Truth is once again censored. 🤣
Very informative and interesting. Our flesh bodies are made up of Carbon 12 which is 6 electrons, 6 protons and 6 neutrons or 666 right? I was hoping you might have some insite and could help me with these two verses. In Hosea chapter 13:7. it reads Yahweh Elohim will be like a leopard, a lion and a bear which is the same description of the beast in Revelation chapter 13. Some are teaching that this mean’s Yahweh is the beast and I’m perplexed by this. Thanks.
@aprilfloyd1366 I wrote a response but it did not go through.
@@Stariana19 Thank you. I agree with you that 666 has to do with the Carbon Atom and our Bodies. I believe Hosea 13: 2 helps answer the riddle of the Beast in Revelation 13. The Seventh Head will receive a 'deadly wound and be healed'. Perhaps this Antichrist already appeared as Hitler. He supposedly died of a head wound. I am of the opinion that the wound will be healed via Genetic Engineering and Artificial Intelligence. Thus, the final Antichrist will be the Image of the Beast (also called 'Little Horn'). It will be the ultimate 'idol' that will be created by Man by combining all of the previous Beasts in one, hence the various animals. If indeed it is Hitler brought back to life, then we know what to expect. As far as the two creation accounts in Genesis, the only way I have been able to resolve them is by not changing any words and taking the verses as literal as possible. This means that there was a 'First Adam' created on Day 3. The first Woman was created from his Rib; however, her name was 'Ishshah' in the original Hebrew not Eve. This original couple died physically after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit. It was within 24hrs or less. God had to recreate them as the Second Adam and Eve, into the corrupt bodies we have now. That is when their 'eyes were opened'. They had experienced the Resurrection of Damnation. They were recreated on Day 6. Satan was recreated as well. First Satan was recreated as the infamous 'Snake' crawling on its belly; however, this is euphemism for Male Seed. We are all of that Seed sadly. This Seed was placed in the loins of Adam who planted it into the womb of Eve to produce Cain (thorns and thistles). It is all euphemism for reproduction and conception. Cain is the first incarnation of Satan into human form. Each head of the Beast represents each incarnation. 1) King of Egypt 2) King of Assyria 3) King of Babylon 4) King of Medo-Persia 5) King of Greece 6) King of Rome 7) Hitler or still future 8) Little Horn/Image of the Beast. I believe Cain is the Beast. Cain means 'to buy and sell'. I go into more details in my videos regarding all of this.
I've wondered if there is a pre-existence of the soul and if this is why we all have that empty spot within us.
*"I've wondered if there is a pre-existence of the soul ...."* According to Genesis 2: 7, the answer is, "no." ✴ _And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul._ (P.S. There is no post-existence, either.)
*dust + breath of life = soul*
*soul - breath of life = dust*
Dr. Heiser missed a couple of important details about church history.
The Fifth Ecumenical council also known as the Second Council of Constantinople condemned the teaching and Anathematized it as heresy.
“If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema.”- The Anathemas Against Origen
As far as humans being born in depravity mainly began with western early church father Augustine. And it continued in the western church on into Roman Catholicism after schism and of course protestants are more Catholic than they realize so they kept it with their theology. This idea led to the immaculate conception of Mary in the Catholic Church. Because how could Mary be the Theotokos if she was a sinful vessel.
The Coptic church and orthodox disagree. The eastern church father John Chrysostom told Augustine he was wrong. Coptics and orthodox follow John’s teaching.
I have come to believe the soul is our mind and emotions and it's programming through daily life and experiences. But our spirit or our essence was made and fashioned by God himself through himself and set aside for our specific time to be born. I've always wondered if it were true or not.
And i wonder if adam being the incarnation of the breath of YHWH, does that also mean we humans are also the incarnation of the breath of YHWH, or just a meat suit with a highly advanced computer brain until we get saved and then the spirit or breath of YHWH fills us?
As always I have so many questions....
These are interesting...
My view is similar to the first, except that I don't see the soul "emerging from the material"... I think that during intercourse, the couples' souls intertwine and the child's soul emerges from that connection
(I might be borrowing a bit from New Age teaching here, but it's really how I'd always thought of it before I came across any eastern/new-age material) (it's also similar to the soul tie idea, but not entirely the same; I think the souls might deposit "energies" while intertwined without necessarily staying tethered, but the both spirits would bear witness to the deposits and register the couple as initiating a binding covenant to be one flesh)
(I digressed, sorry 😅)
I think that this intertwine happens alongside the flesh to produce a "signature" that perhaps gets tethered to the sperm... I wouldn't quite call the "signature" a soul yet, but perhaps it would hold some substance that only becomes whole when it is imbedded/fertilised in the egg (might be a similar thing to the way crypto transactional information and IDs get embedded in the blockchain, if you're familiar with that kind of thing)
I think that signature holds our IDs as individuals (ancestry, covenants, original sin, God's image/declaration about our sonship, etc.), and we get to build (and deconstruct) upon that ID when we become conscious choosers and doers
If other souls can inhabit bodies and objects, it’s easy to separate the soul as moveable into various situations and limited by each 🤷♀️🤔
I'm here a fourth description which is the one I believe and that is we have this peg and understanding of what a soul is.. a soul is just simply body plus breath.. we think we have something invisible floating around us when we die gose somewhere lol. Remember the very first life Satan told humans? You won't surely die.. weird how we still believe that same lie. Truth is when we die we sleep in the grave of waiting for the Lord to return. No one's burning in Hellfire and no human is in heaven at the moment except for Christ. Christ even said so himself when Lazarus died.
It sounds to me the verse in Job is using rhetoric to condemn the view of preexistence, not being in support of it
Prayers for Michael's fight. Hopefully his oncologist is aware of the latest individualized immunotherapy and case studies showing the efficacy of Propranolol taken orally.
The clay turned into a soul
By a implementation of a spirit in that body .
Soul = body and spirit .
Body dies returns to dust
Spirit goes back to God .
Soul it’s a title to body and spirit
Spirit is only an engine. It is an engine that powers what we are. Spirit can linger outside of our field. Our Soul is what we are indeed, the light that is the truth. Body is a mere vessel, a temple to be utilized to house are peice and it's used for performance of Earthly deeds & tasks. Body is meant to harness, to contain & most importantly to slow down Our light. In this condition, we can not move at the speed of Light. The light which is what we all are fragments of the Creator. Off spring. Demonic are parasitic by products that are jealous of God's power and using us to attempt to gain more energy. They want to collect & harvest our Souls, misguidedly believing they can out power God. Try as they might the effort's all in vain, they NEVER will! God wins.
Dearest Gracious Heavenly Father God reach out of the supernatural realm that Dr Michael Heiser has taught us so much about and supernaturally touch his body and make him whole again in the mighty powerful Holy name of the lord Jesus Christ I pray amen.
The quotation from Job was obviously sarcastic.
If you want to be rigorously academic about this topic you have to ask yourself does scripture mention anything about the necessity to go through the birth canal?
👊✌️
Aren't immaterial thoughts generated by a being that at least has material attributes?
What do you mean exactly?
Dr. Heiser states that the problem with the first view was that there is the material creating the immaterial. I was wondering if a similar process happens when we,.who are material beings, if not exclusively so, produce immaterial thoughts through our material brains.
@@highlander-jb6jv Oh, I see what you're saying. Heiser would probably just say that our thoughts derive from our mind and not our brain. He's probably a mind-body dualist or an idealist in regards to philosophy of the mind.
Why does he say that the Scripture does not talk about this? Surely he read Genesis where it said about Adam that he became a living soul when God breathed into him
Jeremiah 1:5 supports preexistence
WE SAY ....THERE IS NOT A SOUL IN HERE, WE MEAN THERE IS NOT A PERSON IN HERE, SO A SOUL IS A HUMAN BEING, AS SIMPLE AS THAT . 😉☺👍🐌😇😊
I'm so happy that tho Dr Heiser is no longer with us, we have hundreds of hours of videos and all his books to take in.
Poor taste
He answered my question. They asked Jesus, who did sin that this man was BORN blind, was it his sin or his parents? How can u have sin before you were born? Because your soul pre-existed according to the book of jubilees and Jeremiah and the book of psalms.
@YAHSHUARIGHT The people who asked that may not have known at the time what they were talking about. Just because they asked those questions does not mean the questions were grounded in truth. They may have assumed wrongly that the man could have sinned before he was born. Infact Jesus answers them that he was not born blind because of the sin of the parents or himself. Both questions were flawed based upon their understanding at the time: "Jesus answered, 'Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him.'" John 9:1-3
@@AbramSailor79 how about the crippled man that Jesus said your sins are forgiven? Or go and sun no more lest a worst thing come upon thee, sin and sickness was an idea that he connected. Yes I understand that this was for the glory of God but for them as Jews who studied the Bible from 5 years old and memorized it by 10, i don’t think they would have made such a foolish mistake to ask a stupid question.
@@LASTCALL77 I don't know how the crippled man has any bearing on the question at hand "did we preexist sinning before birth". Also, the vast majority of Jews at the time had TONs of things wrong regardless of when they started reading or memorizing the bible. You claim "they would have made such a foolish mistake to ask a stupid question" is simply an opinion. Note, I didn't say I knew whether or not the question was foolish or stupid, only that we have no way of knowing based on John 9:1-3. (and just because someone is ill informed and asks a question does not necessarily make it foolish or stupid).
@@AbramSailor79 but what about the scriptures that talk about pre-existence?
@@LASTCALL77 I was strictly referring to John 9:1-3. But sure, I am aware that there are scriptures that can be interpreted as us having preexistance and have read many. I'm totally open to that possibility as I am undecided on the matter. Sinning in our preexistance is I think a separate question however. If you would like to provide some examples that would be cool. Thank you for your time.
If the soul is created 'with the biology', why does the Raiphate have no soul despite being 1/3 human and 2/3 divine?
Do they have a human soul and spirit? And is this why Scriptures say they are not Redeemed? In other words, their soul is sitting in Sheol awaiting their sentence, the Lake of Fire? Their spirit is roaming the earth waiting to posses and/pester the living?
I guess it is something to remain a mystery.
I had this question before Al Gore invented the internet. There was no one I could turn to for an answer. So I thought of the possibilites and thought of the 3 answers Michael speaks of.
I thought of it this way 1. God made some souls and put them in a box and each time there is a conception He reaches into His box of souls and puts one in the fetus. Does He pick one at random or a specific soul for a specific body? 2. God makes a soul each time there is a conception and puts it in a body. Why would God put a soul into a defective body - and make that soul have to deal with birth defects, etc Some souls can't handle it and commit suicide. 3. The soul is just part of the conception process that God designed.
My conclusion was God's ways are higher than my ways and I don't know how it happens and can't find a good answer in the scriptures. The secret things belong to the Lord. It is above my pay grade. It is on a need to know basis. I will not concern myself with things too high above me.
This thought just came to me -
Does the rebirth (being born again as a Christian) provide an example?
When we are born again God says He will give us a new heart and a new Spirit.
I suppose the new Spirit is Christ coming to live within us. What about the new heart? Is that more than just a new attitude? Maybe this points to a new soul being created at the moment of birth.
Is the act of a man and woman creating life purely physical though?
There is a difference between a soul and a spirit. Soul is mind, emotions, will, which could be strictly physical. But the spirit, is derived from God. A clone could have a soul but not a spirit. The bible says our spirits are bankrupt and dead until we believe, so it seems it could be possible.
I'm inclined to think that as part of God's gift of procreation He included the automatic creation of souls to inhabit the bodies that parents were creating. Therefore we can say it came from Him because that is the "process" He came up with, but whether a soul is created is down to a male and female, either within God- sanctioned marriage or not. So God is not to be blamed for the direct creation of a baby through, for example rape or incest. Arguments for keeping such a baby because it is a "gift" from God are unhelpful - rather we should see any human life as sacred because once created God loves it and He will give grace to nurture it if we come to him.
All this does not prevent a sovereign God from choosing to create particular persons for his particular reasons but we should not argue the general from the particular. Just because he knew Jeremiah or Paul for example, or gave Isaac, Samson and Samuel to their mothers does not mean He does that in every case. However, once in the womb God so loves that newly conceived person that the giving of His Son was as much for that unborn child as it was for the rest of us born humans.
Verse 7 is rhetorical and the answers are no; why would verse 8 be any different?