Drop Loop 6:1 Crevasse Rescue for Guides (Hard Ice)
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2017
- Hey all, here is a video demonstrating a 6:1 drop loop rescue system. (As of Dec 2018) So this video has seen a lot of traffic and received some great critiques.
Remember, this video in now way replaces training from a professional certified guide, which you should seek out before trying these techniques. This video is based on skills acquired during various trainings both inside the Association of Icelandic Mountain Guides and from fellow Guides outside of the Association.
A well respected guide in Iceland critiqued the video. Here are some of his critiques:
1.) Butterfly...Nice! I like to have things simple so I skip the butterfly and just use the master point of the anchor to clip the other end of the drop loop.
2) I skip using the extension on the ATC while rappelling, just use it straight from my belay loop and the hollow block connected to the foot loop with a carabiner...this will save one sling if you like to be lightweight or need the sling for chest harness.
3) Always remember prussik knot is just half a system so unless you have some kind of a safety knot , you should hold the rope with one hand. So when you clip your client in in just be aware of that, In this video you are connected to a loop so it is not very risky if your prussik knot starts to slide without a backup....you will just slide to the bottom of the loop.
4) When I was doing my training instructors talked about never wrap climbing ropes around your hands. Not when hauling or doing something else. The idea was that if you always wrap them around then at some point in life when something brakes your hands might get stuck and you can't let go of the rope. Meaning you might fall or your fingers might be cut off by the rope.
I personally like this rule and have experienced two accidents were a person would have been pulled off a cliff or his fingers cut off if he had the rope wrapped around his hands...so be careful about it
5) At 13:10 you have pulled your client up on the 2:1 system and then you just let go of the rope. Remember that the prussik is only a half system, so you need to back it up or hold onto the rope with one hand. At this moment there is a lot of slack in the system and if for some reason the prussik starts to slide, there is not much you can do. The person will jus slide back into the crevasse
6) 13:32 Same as before the prussik is just holding the victim and while you put up the ATC there is nothing else backing it up. A good thing would be to put up the ATC, pull all the slack through and then release the figure eight knot that is clipped to the butterfly. - Zábava
Brilliant vid, and your enthusiasm is infectious.
Thanks so much. Very clear and straight forward, The clever use of minimal gear was extremely useful.
Bingo ! I wanna b-slap all the oxygen pirates who don’t get it.
“Why don’t you just use this device or that device?”
Because it wasn’t here.
Wow, xcellant rescue training vdo. Gr8 skill 2 practice & have in yur repertoire. Alot of basic & advance concepts demostrated. Thx 4 sharing on the internet.
I'm a sport climber who's gettind into mountaineering and this definetely help!Your videos are in the best i can find on youtube please make more and on other topics
Thanks for the positive comment. I'm working on making an update to this video and will post some other ones soon.
I second this your the best on CZcams
Thx a lot.. I love the way you have set the pully loop for climbing up the rope. Also very nice the way you made the butterfly.. Cheers.
Excellent hands-on demo. Thanks!
There are things that I like from this and things that I don't... I like how you explained your method though. Very clear.
Very simply demostration that make a powerful ropes technique
"clean knot everytime....baby"
And yet no safety knots in sight
finally! A no BS video! keep up the good work!
You need to close the straps on your gloves. It's bothering me. LOL!
Haha, yeah I thought "Oh... you're one of those guys who just doesn't care... must be nice."
It's part of his look how cool I am style...
07/31/2022 Hello Mike. Good VIdeo. You answered a lot of my questions about patient care during a rescue. Some trainers forget to practice patient communications and care during rescue videos. It is really important that if the patient is semi conscious to stay in comm mode to help prevent sleep and panic. Good Job. Don
This guy is the maestro!
Si señor
Clear explanation and simple rescue solution. Great video. Subbed
This is great, very professional!
I dont know why I get such a kick out of watching this. I never have rock climbed and never will, but there is something satisfying to me about watching these guys set all this stuff up
“And now, if we step back into the guides’ tent, you’ll see that the Shamwow has absorbed nearly ALL of the cola!”
😂😂
Nice video!
Wow this is awsome work man fantastic god bless you
Nice job. Just remember when using the beener as the 3:1 you're getting a high rate of friction making the system overall more like a 2:1. But in a pinch..... whatever works. Great vid.
Even with the best pulleys and frictionless edge(!) you'll never get the theoretical ratio e.g. 6:1....If it works then it works; use it. Just beware the person catching under a crevasse lip, adds much more stress in the system....stop pulling & ease them around the problem!
It all looked good. Just on the 3 to 1. I would have walked it out instead of wearing my arms out in a Emergency situation. Good show!
Great video bro!! Tons of know how!!!
U can also create/extend the master point on the 2:1 instead of the main line.
that rope just got stomped with a crampon man expensive step. love the vid even though its bit old thanks for the great info
Good video, man! I kept anxiously watching you stomp around your rope with your crampons and hoping you wouldn't snag it. I think you might have pinned it against the wall a bit when you were down at the victim.
Very helpful! Thank you
Nice and help full. THX
Great video. It would be good to see a 2-man rope team crevasse rescue, with one man rescuing from a 3:1 system after arresting the fall of his partner. There are a few videos on here but most a pretty poor and unrealistic.
LOL, my ten year old just said, it would have been worth putting in a screw just above the "victim and mount a camera to that! Great video but next time please chuck out that GoPro or whatever it is an use a SONY FDR3000, u get less of the head spin from a helmet mount. Love the "clean knot every time"...........So true! if you don't want problems. But even better "clean knot every time but make sure the free end is on the inside of the knot. I'm gonna sub baby!
hey there, nice work. i wish i would have the energy to produce vids like that , its seems you can really help lots of people by doing this.
2 comments -
1. the gain is more 1:4 (atc in guide mode has some friction and separtes the system . abit like two 1:2 )
2. I really into using basic stuff like prussiks and atc etc. over the last 15 years i slowly found myself teaching clients similar senarios with mech devices. with so much varity and so many people using them (and they became quite light and hold small diameter) i found to have much better results with them, especially clients with less exp.
i think you sould try incorprate them in some of the stages.
i know its against the atos of light and simple, but...the world is changeing...
Great stuff.
thanks a lot so useful!
Great video homie
thanks for watching.
Overall a good video. Great comments too. One slight thing is making sure you lock your auto block carabiner when you were ascending. I tend to leave biners unlocked myself from time to time. O.o
yeah, got hit for that by the person supervising as well. Thanks for the comment.
@Global Mike Reid Great video Mike!! just a question to understand better here.. When you go down to the victim, you attach him to the system via a pulley and a prussik. The pulley will mind the prusik and when you release tension, the prusik will catch him . If so, what's the point of putting the ATC on locking mode on the butterfly at the anchor level? That ATC will also catch him and prevent him from going back down into the crevasse as well, correct?. Redundancy is always good but in this case isn't the ATC adding so much extra friction to the system (when you already have a full system that will prevent him from going back down?). Thanks, Enjoyed your video !!!
can you start over please, i missed the third step.
Hey Mike, I liked the video, very clear, very efficient! Good on you. The thing that concerned me was slack below your partner once he took off his personal safety around 12:45, I know he was still in the system both on his prusik and in the loop, but then you introduce an enormous amount of slack to the system when you unclip the figure eight on a bite from the butterfly at 13:30 meaning that if the prusik failed he would drop until he hit ground, the figure eight on a bit caught his pulley, or until the loop was unequally loaded between the one bolt and the equalized anchor. Couldn't you pull up his slack and put the atc in guide mode (on that slack) before he unclipped himself from his ice screw and before you unclipped the figure eight on a bite from the butterfly? Then couldn't you use the 6:1 to help him unload his personal cord/sling rather than pulling by hand with the pulley? I am new to these types of systems so I honestly ask to learn and out of concern! Cheers! Would like to hear your thoughts on this.
I'd have to agree with you on this one! prussic minding pulley area kinda ketchy in my experience. all your suggestion make sense... but always remember the simple clove hitch for tying lines off in a jiffy
very good
He forgot to lock the atc in guide mode when ascending.... be careful guys! good trick with backing up the system with your leg loop while ascending...
Yeah, I did. The supervisor of this rescue actually pointed that out as soon as I was finished with the rescue. Was thinking of shooting it again but decided to not. But yeah, good catch and do always be careful with the rescue and double check your carabiners.
@@globalmikereid3389 It would be very interesting to add some advise about this. That red circle isn't goodlooking at all.
Мужик! это круто! доступно и понятно!!
great video, nice to see someone concentrate on dressing the knots correctly as most climbers dont do it
I have to ask would it be a good idea to have edge pro for the time here or is it ok within the snow/ ice.
I don't know much on this field of ice guides do's and don't if at all so just asking for learning.
Just worry about the ropes getting cut, under tension it doesn't take much to cut a rope even Kernmantel.
wow, very nice video! I wish you could have secured the flaps on those gloves though! very distracting
Pourquoi faire simple alors qu'on peut faire compliqué !!
Hey. I may be a bit confused, but does this system assume your victim fell in not on rope? He was connected by sling on ice anchor only...it looked like?
I guess this was for demonstration purposes. If the victim is on the rope tied with you and you manage to catch the fall and build your anchor, you have to reattach the rope he's now hanging on (tied to you now) to the anchor - put prusik on this tight rope and attach to the anchor. Then slowly release the weight your are holding - so that rope's now hanging on prusik. You can now untie yourself from the rope and the rest of the steps is the same way as in video - you just use the rest of the rope that is left (if it's long enough)
Not much ice though here at the foothills of the Great Smoky Mountains but plenty of cliffs and caves that one of us could slip and fall in or over
So the Prussik is up against the pulley on the victim?
check out prussic minding pulley
Nice video
How about scenario that he has fallen and has broken leg. Would your system still work or more ropes and people needed then.
ConstructiveMinds100 yes the system would be the same assuming that it is only not a broken leg and not a spinal injury requiring a stretcher; however, before you pull the person up make sure to check the ABC’s (Airway, Breathing and Circulation / Bleeding) being that they took a good fall.
my only critique is that your victim is attached to the system via a 7mm prussik and not directly connected to the rope. i understand having the extra loop as mechanical advantage but i would personally tie or clip them directly to the rope.
Steve McCluskey he is connected to the rope thru a pulley, the Prussik was used to keep him where he was at until he could get back up top and take out the slack in the drop loop. If the victim were to fall at the time he put the Prussik hitch on he would still get caught by the pulley on the drop loop. The whole system is a closed loop.
Long fall before pulley is in the borrom of loop, Steve is right.
He opend the loop at 13:34
I just thought the same...he could do the same thing without opening the loop. Just install the atc before disconnecting the rope from the butterfly.
A question: "in what real situation, we find a person in a crack"; without rope, only with a ring and an ice screw? The exercise is achieved by going down to the person placing the pulley, occupying minimalsitas implements is fine, however, in a real scenario we assume that the person: fell ?, the person was down alone? interpreting the exercise that a glacier should walk three people, maybe two.
Thanks greetings
Maybe they were heli skiing and a client fell in a crevasse?
Lol I was thinking this the entire time. I watched a very similar video as well where the exact same thing was done but the scenario was if you were on a 2 man team with a kiwi coil.
In this kind of "real situation" :
czcams.com/video/OvjUUgJgxJ4/video.html
This rescue is done in reference to a commercial glacier guiding scenario where one Guide will have up to 13 clients in simple to slightly challenging terrain for a 1-3 hour tour. What would most likely happen is one of the clients goes to close to the edge of a crevasse and slips in.
Nice rescue dude, you know your shit !
Hey! my mike fell Damnit! Oh yeah I got someone to rescue here ...j/k! 😆
You could just use a hand ascender for the RAD
It's harder your rope, though. And it's an extra piece of gear that has one, and only one, purpose.
Quick question. how secure is that rope to the ice ? Like is there a high risk in it coming loose from the anchor?
No. If he placed two banger points in ice it's considered safe if he used the appropriate length ice screws. Though instead of using a butterfly he could have set a third screw offset to connect to to increase safety
@@matthewbernard4152 Each screw has been tested to 10kn of breaking strength. The weakest part is the dyneema sling which is climbing rated to 21kn; however it does lose up to 1/3 of its strength when a knot is introduced.
💯
cool!
Did you have the victim hanging on a single ice screw down there that whole time? What??
I was thinking that too. but I don't know anything about ice climbing
@@AdventureDarin kinda sketchy,,, those screws start to melt out under weight
Yes, and we do that for every rescue scenario less during a hot summer day (which is 18 degrees Celsius here in Iceland). From out testing in regards to Ice Screws under load (during rescues) we found that about after 30 minutes we start to notice movement of the screw, at which time the rescue should have been completed.
@@globalmikereid3389 so why would you risk putting the victim on a single screw?
He did say, "My victim" not "the victim". So maybe that was intentional.... hahaha
8:20 how long is this prusik?
5 metres long.
I believe you should have the pulley on the prusik (3:1): the most friction efficient device should always be closest to your hand. Your 3:1 system as it is put together is really a 1.6:1. Your 2:1, which probably doesn't have stainless steel bearings, is really a 1.4:1 (1.8:1 with a ball bearing pulley), with a total system MA of 2.24 +/- on a 6:1 system. Yikes! The 'biner should be on the victim, and with the pulley nearest your hand, you will have a 3:1 MA, because of friction.
This is a pretty good video of how friction affects MA: czcams.com/video/x1FSdt3_Nlc/video.html
Your mountaineering skills are amazing, thanks for taking the time to post the video!
Why do you use the atc at the base of your 3:1, it does not have any roly as a progress capture and only adds fiction to the system. Also you could just use a microtraction insted of a pulley and prusik a the victim. Otherwise great video.
Thats a 4:1. Cuz the load is tied into a fixed anchor the number of advantage is always even, 2:1,4:1 and so on.
If the anchor is tied to the load it’s gonna be uneven.
Sorry, but the rules change when you transition from simple systems into compound/complex systems.
The first pulley at the victim created a 2 to 1. The Z-rig he made at the top is a 3 to 1. They are separate systems. The 3 to 1 is hauling the 2 to 1.
3 x 2 = 6 (to 1).......although a lot is being lost to friction in this setup.
15:18 your personal anchor is crossloading the carabiner.
No it's not
for me that looks quite complicated, especially when beeing in an emergency situation, you should remember all of that correctly. maybe i am not experienced enough, but is there any advantage against the quite simple looking mammut RescYou? thank you for your video + answer btw. :)
Well this deice does look pretty cool and yes it could work very well. That being said, if the device were to fail or you were to drop it somehow (not to mention its heavy), what will you do? You have a buddy in a crevasse, who may get hypothermia, and you may not have the knowledge of a backup system...so the results will be dire. - So, this video represents only one way to do a crevasse rescue. Personally, working on the Glaciers in Iceland and doing alpine as well, I have three rescue systems I can use ranging from fully mechanical (Micro Traxion, basic ascender, RocknRoll, Gri Gri) to a system using only carabiners (prusik minded carabiner as ratchet and an alpine clutch to ascend). All of my systems use gear that can be used in many different ways for different goals, as where the mammut RescYou looks to excel at one things and that is a ratchet and mechanical advantage system. So if you are serious about this, what is shown in this video is just the very tip of the iceberg to keep you and your friends safe on the glaciers and in the Alpine.
This is not a 3:1 or 6: 1 system. Because there is a lot of rubbing through the carabiners. If there were rolls instead of carabiners, that would have been different
Hey baby, min 1.34.. the sling with the carabine were u are going to attach your safe line is connect to the ice screws with 2 normal carabine, without locking sistem... not really safe ... peace baby!
Great video, but seems complicated for a real rescue scenario. All though I’m sure you could set it up way faster if you weren’t explaining it step by step for us.
Since you're using a Guide ATC, you could use it in autolock mode, then you don't need the autoblock and you can ascend easily without transitioning.
whoa
That guy bled outy 5 minutes ago.
I'd imagine he'd do it quicker, and with more man power, in a irl situation
he froze to death
Mike that would never work if he was in a bind 300 feet down knocked unconcias
yeah, at that point all I could do is kiss my guiding career goodbye...and call Search and Rescue.
No more coffee before filming ...lol
noticed you descended on only one line!!, most rope access video's show the demonstrator using TWO lines, one they call a backup line, with a fall arresting device clipped onto this rope, so in case the first line (or any rigging on this rope) FAILS you are still safe!!
looks like climbers take a bit more "slack" than other rope workers do in regards of their own safety.
They could have simply been using double or half ropes. He's clearly using a single rated rope so using a second is unnecessary. No need for a tagline or double here
But climbers do not hang in there ropes the whole day, 5 days a week, all year. A line or anchor point is much more likely to fail in construction or repair work on an workplace then in an crevasse rescue situation.
Or just use a grigri and a Ascender :D
(I Had to, im sorry)
Well most rescues aren't this controlled lol thus the term RESCUE
I actually saw this done on my last Hard Ice 3 Guide Exam and the guy almost bombed the rescue. The reason being that you need slack in order to feed the Gri Gri and if the victim were to fall further down the crevasse and make the line taught, you are going no-where. This also applies for the ATC Guide. I always carry two prussic's for this reason.
Goddamn glove straps, man. WTF?
Right!!! I'm loosing dexterity because it's cold but I have my gloves undone and don't have my jacket zipped all the way lol
@@matthewbernard4152 yeah I keep the straps open for all of my homies who have come before.....These gloves are worthless for warmth and when I do strap them they for some reason are forced to move down my hand creating space at my fingertips. I now forgoe those $50 pieces of crap and get some cheap gas station gloves.
Brian Harder worry about your glove straps Brian
15:05 ☠☠☠ Понятно - это спасработы , но парень - ты же руками подергал самострах и не видишь что он на муфту лег.
Если сейчас что то пойдет не так - спасать надо будет уже двоих
Why are you making this so hard on yourself lol for god sake use your legs to pull him up. You're 90% arms, you should not get gassed when you are safely on flat ground to pull. Maybe halfway up a wall but not when you're on even ground.
Never make a loop around your hands to pull
Yes, that is true. Was critiques for this after the video but thanks for the comment.
Why not?
Dislike: Stepping on the rope; 10:19 on your own accend ATC Carabiner open. If you demonstrate something: do it right!
Yup, could have done some better rope management and double checked that carabiner. Thanks for the comment.
That is so overcomplicated
Make a double strand locking of one of the strands, then rap down on the double strand, make a double figure of eight into the unlocked side of the rope and clip that double figure of eight with a locking biner to the fallen person, then ascend the rope again with your atc, pulley and prussik, once you are up, set up your atc in guide mode on the anchor belaying the rope to which the fallen person is attached to, then unlock the rope so it can now go freely through the anchor, then redirect the rope over the pulley, which is attached to your belay loop, and then up to the anchor once more and rediret it this time back through the anchor back to you, then attach the prusik and clip yourself into the prusik, now all you have to do is lean backwards to pull up the injured person and then slide up the prusik and repeat until the injured person is up.
Can you make a video please? Or direct me to one.
@@williamkholeif Literally every Bigwall Hauling video
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Egoista
Prusik is a hitch not a knot.....
Hitches are knots.