I used to think same. But then I finally looked at TDK in a different way. TDK is not Hero vs Evil, thus it is not Batman vs Joker. It is story of three decent men trying to do their absolute best to bring peace and well-being to the city, and Joker is doing his best to bring chaos to the city. My main point is that there is not one leading protagonist with personal story. But there are three equally leading protagonists that share the same aim. Because Batman is quite doll in TDK.
Since the 1st time I watched it as a big Batman comic TPB/graphic novel fan & collector,this remains my No1 Batman film,here’s my top 10 just for the hell of it- 10-Batman Returns 9-Batman:Under the Red Hood 8-Batman:The Dark Knight Returns(parts 1&2) 7-Batman:The Long Halloween(parts 1&2) 6-Batman (1989) 5-The Dark Knight Rises 4-Batman:Mask of the Phantasm 3-The Batman (2022) 2-The Dark Knight 1-Batman Begins
The ultimate superhero film which could in fact be the greatest ninja film too! The gotham constructed from scratch is amazing! the beginning was incredible with the origins story, the soundtrack is flawless and liam neeson is fierce.
'putting star wars back down into the ground where it belongs'. The prequel trilogy: Yes, i'll agree with you there, mark, but the whole star wars saga has inspired millions of imaginations across the world, and has been inspiration for several movies which i know you have reviewed and liked, mark! It is a franchise that deserves success, George Lucas however took it in the wrong direction with the prequels I will agree that Batman begins is a lot better film that Revenge of the Sith
Fair enough, maybe I need to go back and watch it again (I'll be doing so anyway in the lead-up to Rises) but I just felt Bale could have stamped his mark on that film quite a bit more. In this one he's much more central to it, and it looks like that way with the new film. I'm also really looking forward to Tom Hardy as Bane.
after seeing all three movies more than twice i have to say that batman begins remains my favorite....not one scene i felt my interest lose even for a second but that wasnt always the case for dark knight rises....
Director Christopher Nolan reboots the hit DC hero in A way that’s action packed, well crafted, well acted, stylish & terrifically scored. (86%) (4.5/5 stars) (positive)
@acledfloyd Haha I honestly meant to put Begins lol. I even did a video review of TDKR and stated that I thought it was far inferior to Begins. But I love your comment. I watched Begins everyday, the first week it was on DVD. Still on my top 3 for greatest superhero films.
I completely agree with having watched it finally. I got it mixed up with the Dark Knight which was pants compared to this film. I was completely wrong about this film.
personaly the first Burton Batman film from 1989 was a perfecly good film for the time. I didn't like it at the time as a child as it was dark. but since then I have grown to really like the film. Batman Returns wasn't so bad but was much darker. Then they got into panto land territory and by Batman & Robin were just stinkers or adverts for toys rather than films & had become like the 1960s tv shows, Something the films were never meant to be originaly. The Nolan films are quite Amazing to be honest especialy The Dark Knight.
Where the crowd in the narrows are freaked out and start clawing at a prostrate Batman who has landed on top of them- he then manages to latch onto the monorail and drag himself clear. Unlike the unfortunate Rhodes (Joe Pilato) in Day of the Dead. Cue the defiant taunts "Choke on 'em..."
@5686darryl That doesn't explain why it's Day of the Dead in particular. That's just reffering to the toxicated people as zombies, there is no exact reference to Day.
i can see why kermode likes it so much because it's hard to imagine now but at the time begins was by far and away the most intelligent superhero film of that time, then TDK came out.
Indeed, my favorite live action Batman film. But my all time favorite Batman films are the Mask of the Phantasm and Batman:The Dark Returns animated films.
Kermode said "..in the middle of all this chaos", ie. amidst all the shit that's going on, or that's starting to happen. He didn't say "in the middle of the film", nor did he imply that he was speaking chronologically.
At what point in Batman Begins do they reference Day of the Dead? I haven't seen the movie since it came out so I don't remember, but I would like to see it again based on that statement alone. I don't remember seeing anything like Day of the Dead in that movie. Can someone tell me what scene he is referencing?
The Dark Knight's good, but Batman Begins set the bar. I think it's largely because Bale's performance was the real centrepiece, whereas he then allowed himself to be upstaged by Heath Ledger.
Nice review. The only thing I disagree with is I don't see any comparison of this Batman to the Frank Miller Batman like Mark feels. Does anyone have any idea why he thinks so?
Oh. Maybe. When I think of Frank Miller Batman, my mind immediately went to Dark Knight Returns, lol. And the Batman in that was really brutal and violent.
@deraj nitram Very late response. Kermode is not critcizing the performance (though I doubt he loved it), but he is referring to the rumours that Kilmer is difficult to work with. Schumacher has publicly said he wouldn't work with him again. Probably one reason why the role went to Clooney.
Yeah I don't really get how people can favour the other two over TDK. It enjoyed it more as a crime film more than a superhero film. I think it will be remembered for a long time
@DWR6943 Yeah, a lot of people say that about his reviews but I'm quite inclined to disagree - he reviews for a film buff audience, the kind of people who wouldn't be too surprised to hear about Liam Neeson's character being not too good after all (I mean Batman fans would've already recognised him as Ra's al Ghul from his appearance anway), actually he only really gives away Bruce's little disagreement with him when asked to kill the prisoner.
I am a physicist so I spot a lot of bad science in movies, but even with that I love batman begins, and it will always be one of my favorite movies. And also water is water so if it can get through 1 inch metal pipes like it does in the movie it get can through the less than a centimeter of skin to get the the blood stream.
I think it's the bit when everyone is freaking out on fear gas and Batman is being mobbed. The train passes overhead and he manages to reach down and grab his grapple gun. Always made me think of a zombie film, when they are all surrounding Batman and grabbing at him.
+CisforCock the scene where batman rescues the little boy from the fear gas. Right before scarecrow rides up on the horse, i think. That general area though. Where everybody had red eyes. May have actually been zombies, as seen through the child's perspective, under the effects of the fear toxin.
I think it's the bit when everyone is freaking out on fear gas and Batman is being mobbed. The train passes overhead and he manages to reach down and grab his grapple gun. Always made me think of a zombie film, when they are all surrounding Batman and grabbing at him. Could be wrong though.
I prefer Batman Begins because I think Batman is the strongest character in the franchise: a tragic hero with strong psychological motivations for his actions. While The Dark Knight is entertaining and The Joker is good, the depth of Bruce Wayne/Batman that existed in Batman Begins is severely lacking in TDK.
I've heard Kermode complain so frequently about 28 Days Later's 'mislabeling' as a zombie movie. This is the first time I've heard him slip and refer to it as such. Then again, he has more interesting things to discuss in this review.
Batman Begins felt like a weird mishmash of gritty realism with silly events thrown in (Batman learned his skills in a MYSTERIOUS NINJA DOJO IN THE MOUNTAINS) whereas The Dark Knight actually felt like strange events happening in the real world. It just seemed to hang together better for me. I should watch BB again though
id disagree its definately not for 10 year olds at all mainly because its too long, i first saw it when i was ten and didnt even get half way through then i rewatched it after being blown away by the dark kinght and realised how great it really was
I would disagree that Liam Neeson's reappearance is a much of an unexpected twist. Bruce Wayne destroys the lodge of the League of Shadows when he is told what they expect him to do. We know their plans. So when they corner him at his home, it's no surprise.
@acledfloyd I got a bit too giddy with my comment. I meant to type Begins is the best Batman film by far. I thought Rises was god awful and TDK was slightly better.
That's where the 'comic book' side of the film comes in... and obviously if the military designed a micro wave emitter that vaporised an enemies water supply they would most probably tweak it so it does not penetrate the human body, possibly by manipulating the wavelength. At the end of the day I don't care, it's a fine, fine movie.
As bad as this review occasionally is (love Kermode but the spoilers in this review are unprofessional), it genuinely makes me miss the anticipation of this kind of movie. Going in to a Batman movie thinking it will 'scare me in parts'... helluva thing.
@vishifishi01 XD I think we can agree mate, that is THE LEAST of those films' problems. You know, if anything, Schumacher's movies had too little character motivation. It was just film stars hopping around from one action scene in an overblown set to another. Why the hell does Two Face team up with Riddler, anyway? He doesn't give a fuck who Batman is, he just wants to kill him - he has nothing invested in that mystery. As for B&R - I tried to be fair to it but it's simply UN-WA-TCHA-BLE.
How could've ever thought that 'The Dark Knight' was a better film is beyond me. Won't lose myself to that sort of hyperbole again ... 'Batman Begins' is what 'The Dark Knight Rises' has to top.
@projectcyclops When the streets are full of the nutty slum people and they grab hold of Batman before he ziplines onto the train to face Ra's Al Ghul.
But seriously, where the fuck is the "obvious" reference to Romero's Day of the Dead in this film? I literally know every single shot of that film, and there's nothing in Batman Begins that reminds me of it. Haha, anyone?!
I felt it was a great film, all three were great films, but not necessarily a great "Batman" Film, I don't think there has been one yet to be honest. The best , or closest thing to a satisfying Batman Fan experience so far- has actually been the recent batman games on the consoles- those are amazing narrative and mood wise. consistent with comics and the mythology of batman. he s a dark , vengeful , noble, tortured, knight and it has humour without it becoming comic. comic without being comical.
"Anakin Skywalker gets a bit grumpy one day and goes oo I think I might as well go out to the dark side" my new favorite critic
This remains my favorite Batman movie. It has that indescribably quality of a true epic.
What a wonderful film.
its weird that 140m was only a short time ago a surprisingly high amount.
Still the only Batman film that really hits the mark for me. It's the perfect balance of plausible crime story and stylish comic book movie.
Same here. I'd always pick watching BB over TDK.
@@keretaman me as well ! Batman begins is better than Dark knight.
I used to think same. But then I finally looked at TDK in a different way. TDK is not Hero vs Evil, thus it is not Batman vs Joker. It is story of three decent men trying to do their absolute best to bring peace and well-being to the city, and Joker is doing his best to bring chaos to the city. My main point is that there is not one leading protagonist with personal story. But there are three equally leading protagonists that share the same aim. Because Batman is quite doll in TDK.
Agreed
Since the 1st time I watched it as a big Batman comic TPB/graphic novel fan & collector,this remains my No1 Batman film,here’s my top 10 just for the hell of it-
10-Batman Returns
9-Batman:Under the Red Hood
8-Batman:The Dark Knight Returns(parts 1&2)
7-Batman:The Long Halloween(parts 1&2)
6-Batman (1989)
5-The Dark Knight Rises
4-Batman:Mask of the Phantasm
3-The Batman (2022)
2-The Dark Knight
1-Batman Begins
FFS Kermode, not only did you spoil a plot twist but you're directly quoting from the very last scene! Ha!
It’s been out for so long. I’m sure everyone has seen it by now.
@@wb8905 This review was originally out the week the film was released!
The ultimate superhero film which could in fact be the greatest ninja film too! The gotham constructed from scratch is amazing! the beginning was incredible with the origins story, the soundtrack is flawless and liam neeson is fierce.
My God, Mark used to talk incredibly fast!
wow best analysis of mark's i've heard in a while. he must of been excited about this one
Batman Begins and Dark Knight r just perfect awesome, my all time fav Superhero movie, with Returns and Watchmen close behind lol
'putting star wars back down into the ground where it belongs'. The prequel trilogy: Yes, i'll agree with you there, mark, but the whole star wars saga has inspired millions of imaginations across the world, and has been inspiration for several movies which i know you have reviewed and liked, mark! It is a franchise that deserves success, George Lucas however took it in the wrong direction with the prequels
I will agree that Batman begins is a lot better film that Revenge of the Sith
best Batman film
Fair enough, maybe I need to go back and watch it again (I'll be doing so anyway in the lead-up to Rises) but I just felt Bale could have stamped his mark on that film quite a bit more. In this one he's much more central to it, and it looks like that way with the new film. I'm also really looking forward to Tom Hardy as Bane.
after seeing all three movies more than twice i have to say that batman begins remains my favorite....not one scene i felt my interest lose even for a second but that wasnt always the case for dark knight rises....
@Filmzie
Ah! Thanks Filmzie, wouldn't have thought of that myself. I thought it was to do with the batcave or something.
the end bit-oh mark how I wish I could give you a time machine hehe
Director Christopher Nolan reboots the hit DC hero in A way that’s action packed, well crafted, well acted, stylish & terrifically scored. (86%) (4.5/5 stars) (positive)
joffrey was in batman begins - odd
@acledfloyd Haha I honestly meant to put Begins lol. I even did a video review of TDKR and stated that I thought it was far inferior to Begins. But I love your comment. I watched Begins everyday, the first week it was on DVD. Still on my top 3 for greatest superhero films.
@Quatermassman
it's more of a visual reference to DOTD then a literal reference imo. i think thats what he meant.
I completely agree with having watched it finally. I got it mixed up with the Dark Knight which was pants compared to this film. I was completely wrong about this film.
i liked the show..introduced me to what was possible.
personaly the first Burton Batman film from 1989 was a perfecly good film for the time. I didn't like it at the time as a child as it was dark. but since then I have grown to really like the film. Batman Returns wasn't so bad but was much darker. Then they got into panto land territory and by Batman & Robin were just stinkers or adverts for toys rather than films & had become like the 1960s tv shows, Something the films were never meant to be originaly. The Nolan films are quite Amazing to be honest especialy The Dark Knight.
Anyone know what Dr K is talking about when mentioning the Day of the Dead reference?
As much as I knew he wouldn't like it, my heart sunk a little when Mark said he didn't like Disco Pigs. I love the book and the film.
Can't wait for TDKR
batman begins!!!
Where the crowd in the narrows are freaked out and start clawing at a prostrate Batman who has landed on top of them- he then manages to latch onto the monorail and drag himself clear. Unlike the unfortunate Rhodes (Joe Pilato) in Day of the Dead. Cue the defiant taunts "Choke on 'em..."
Gotta be the best super hero film ever made
Dark Knight is better
It is. Best of the three 1,3,2.
lol "one of" yeah you can count it right in the ranks but NOT the "beSt" AT ALL in ANY way.
Second best imo
@5686darryl That doesn't explain why it's Day of the Dead in particular. That's just reffering to the toxicated people as zombies, there is no exact reference to Day.
i can see why kermode likes it so much because it's hard to imagine now but at the time begins was by far and away the most intelligent superhero film of that time, then TDK came out.
Terrific character development!
Indeed, my favorite live action Batman film. But my all time favorite Batman films are the Mask of the Phantasm and Batman:The Dark Returns animated films.
at the time mark ruined the plot twist about liam neeson lol poor show mark
I like them both equally actually.
Kermode said "..in the middle of all this chaos", ie. amidst all the shit that's going on, or that's starting to happen. He didn't say "in the middle of the film", nor did he imply that he was speaking chronologically.
@themenaceanish totally agree, both movies are equally great, Begins may even be slightly better
At what point in Batman Begins do they reference Day of the Dead? I haven't seen the movie since it came out so I don't remember, but I would like to see it again based on that statement alone. I don't remember seeing anything like Day of the Dead in that movie. Can someone tell me what scene he is referencing?
The Dark Knight's good, but Batman Begins set the bar. I think it's largely because Bale's performance was the real centrepiece, whereas he then allowed himself to be upstaged by Heath Ledger.
Kermode is the man.
@SamHain1031666 to you maybe, but they are two of my favourite films of all time
whatever you found boring, I found riveting
I want a warhammer 40k film by Nolan.
God that would be so good
hey if that is your favorite don't apologize for it. TDK is my favorite but only with begins did I leave the theater wanting to fight crime, hahaha.
@bossman103
Cheers bossman. Filmzie already explained it in another post but thanks for the confirmation vote ;)
Nice review. The only thing I disagree with is I don't see any comparison of this Batman to the Frank Miller Batman like Mark feels. Does anyone have any idea why he thinks so?
+Prakhar Gupta Maybe because of some inspirations taken from "Batman : Year One" ?
Oh. Maybe. When I think of Frank Miller Batman, my mind immediately went to Dark Knight Returns, lol. And the Batman in that was really brutal and violent.
Why did he think Val Kilmer was terrible as usual, did he not see, The Doors, Heat, and Tombstone?
Also very good in kiss kiss bang bang
@deraj nitram Very late response. Kermode is not critcizing the performance (though I doubt he loved it), but he is referring to the rumours that Kilmer is difficult to work with. Schumacher has publicly said he wouldn't work with him again. Probably one reason why the role went to Clooney.
Did you like it more than Dark Knight? To each their own, but that is fairly unique.
Yeah I don't really get how people can favour the other two over TDK. It enjoyed it more as a crime film more than a superhero film. I think it will be remembered for a long time
Loved the Woody Allen bit.
@DWR6943 Yeah, a lot of people say that about his reviews but I'm quite inclined to disagree - he reviews for a film buff audience, the kind of people who wouldn't be too surprised to hear about Liam Neeson's character being not too good after all (I mean Batman fans would've already recognised him as Ra's al Ghul from his appearance anway), actually he only really gives away Bruce's little disagreement with him when asked to kill the prisoner.
@PurushaDesa no, not like that, just the thing is it kept on coming up in the batman forever and robin films and had no part in the story.
I am a physicist so I spot a lot of bad science in movies, but even with that I love batman begins, and it will always be one of my favorite movies. And also water is water so if it can get through 1 inch metal pipes like it does in the movie it get can through the less than a centimeter of skin to get the the blood stream.
Anyone pick up on what he means by BB directly referencing George Romero's Day of the Dead? I've googled it and can't find any answers
Isnt it the part where the escaped blackgate convicts are coming towards Rachel and the little boy through the mist?
I think it's the bit when everyone is freaking out on fear gas and Batman is being mobbed. The train passes overhead and he manages to reach down and grab his grapple gun. Always made me think of a zombie film, when they are all surrounding Batman and grabbing at him.
you cannot teach he who is unwilling to learn
I still think that Spider-Man 2 is the supreme superhero movie
i agree with you
If he's not doing the Batusi, it's not really Batman.
Does anybody know what Dawn of the Dead reference is Mark talking about?
+CisforCock the scene where batman rescues the little boy from the fear gas. Right before scarecrow rides up on the horse, i think. That general area though. Where everybody had red eyes. May have actually been zombies, as seen through the child's perspective, under the effects of the fear toxin.
I think it's the bit when everyone is freaking out on fear gas and Batman is being mobbed. The train passes overhead and he manages to reach down and grab his grapple gun. Always made me think of a zombie film, when they are all surrounding Batman and grabbing at him. Could be wrong though.
I prefer Batman Begins because I think Batman is the strongest character in the franchise: a tragic hero with strong psychological motivations for his actions. While The Dark Knight is entertaining and The Joker is good, the depth of Bruce Wayne/Batman that existed in Batman Begins is severely lacking in TDK.
batman begins, dark knight, dark knight rises
I've heard Kermode complain so frequently about 28 Days Later's 'mislabeling' as a zombie movie. This is the first time I've heard him slip and refer to it as such. Then again, he has more interesting things to discuss in this review.
That is so true, I didn't even thing of that. HAHA
@QuatermassMan
when the toxic gas turns unleashed on the city everyone into walking zombies
Lol, your comment is still useful 10 years later. Thanks!
How come batman doesn't dance anymore ?
"chicks dig the car"
:)
he did. in his bad actors in good movies clip.
I think we may be long lost twins.....
nice spoiler of the big twist hahaha
Batman Begins felt like a weird mishmash of gritty realism with silly events thrown in (Batman learned his skills in a MYSTERIOUS NINJA DOJO IN THE MOUNTAINS) whereas The Dark Knight actually felt like strange events happening in the real world. It just seemed to hang together better for me. I should watch BB again though
Who boils the water for a bath?
id disagree its definately not for 10 year olds at all mainly because its too long, i first saw it when i was ten and didnt even get half way through then i rewatched it after being blown away by the dark kinght and realised how great it really was
and did people not boil water in gotham all those days while making tea or taking a bath and get infected by scarecrow gas
Christian Bale would be an amazing James Bond
Day of the Dead reference? I didn't spot that...
I would disagree that Liam Neeson's reappearance is a much of an unexpected twist. Bruce Wayne destroys the lodge of the League of Shadows when he is told what they expect him to do. We know their plans. So when they corner him at his home, it's no surprise.
It's just you :)
@acledfloyd I got a bit too giddy with my comment. I meant to type Begins is the best Batman film by far. I thought Rises was god awful and TDK was slightly better.
That's where the 'comic book' side of the film comes in... and obviously if the military designed a micro wave emitter that vaporised an enemies water supply they would most probably tweak it so it does not penetrate the human body, possibly by manipulating the wavelength. At the end of the day I don't care, it's a fine, fine movie.
he's got the order wrong first he meets the crime boss played by tom wilkinson then he studies the criminals and trains with liam neeson.
@enigma19833 U serious!?
As bad as this review occasionally is (love Kermode but the spoilers in this review are unprofessional), it genuinely makes me miss the anticipation of this kind of movie.
Going in to a Batman movie thinking it will 'scare me in parts'... helluva thing.
well we can all neglect those glaring plot holes,batman begins was a great movie and an awesome reboot and movies should not be taken seriously anyway
@vishifishi01
So you didn't mind, "Oh my girlfriend's dead. Boo hoo!"?
the godfather 3 was 100 million in 1990.
Best super hero movie ever made imo better tha the dark knight which is great. Anyone think of a better super hero movie?
@vishifishi01
XD I think we can agree mate, that is THE LEAST of those films' problems. You know, if anything, Schumacher's movies had too little character motivation. It was just film stars hopping around from one action scene in an overblown set to another. Why the hell does Two Face team up with Riddler, anyway? He doesn't give a fuck who Batman is, he just wants to kill him - he has nothing invested in that mystery. As for B&R - I tried to be fair to it but it's simply UN-WA-TCHA-BLE.
If Michael Bay had made a Batman movie, that would have been an achievement, if you know what I mean.
How could've ever thought that 'The Dark Knight' was a better film is beyond me. Won't lose myself to that sort of hyperbole again ... 'Batman Begins' is what 'The Dark Knight Rises' has to top.
My ONLY problem with batman begins is that a weapon that evaporates water would evaporate humans.
hot water bath
@thememoryremains100 No way.
Best Batman film by far.
@projectcyclops
When the streets are full of the nutty slum people and they grab hold of Batman before he ziplines onto the train to face Ra's Al Ghul.
Nice spoiler about Liam Neeson's character returning. If you love cinema you should give others a chance to love it also.
But seriously, where the fuck is the "obvious" reference to Romero's Day of the Dead in this film? I literally know every single shot of that film, and there's nothing in Batman Begins that reminds me of it. Haha, anyone?!
It happens during third act, when Scarecrows's toxin is spread out and people go nuts.
I felt it was a great film, all three were great films, but not necessarily a great "Batman" Film, I don't think there has been one yet to be honest. The best , or closest thing to a satisfying Batman Fan experience so far- has actually been the recent batman games on the consoles- those are amazing narrative and mood wise. consistent with comics and the mythology of batman. he s a dark , vengeful , noble, tortured, knight and it has humour without it becoming comic. comic without being comical.
Hey, that animated series was no joke! If they just made that live action it would be the best film out so far!
I must disagree about the Burton films being dull. O h I lov the Nolan stuff but the Burton stuff is good too. better than Forever anyday
same here
lol the prequels dig.
The best movie about batman but the dark Knight is better
no wonder hardly any films have real character development if cinema goers have attitudes like yours.
He made a mistake, god.