Great video! I nerded out on controllers for melee years ago and this is the exact level of nerdiness I needed to inform my own decision for a pad for Tekken 8.
I am head deep in the keyboard hobby (Enter the f1 v2 GB if you havent yet hehe) and is a returning tekken player that broke another pad (5th dpad broken now haha) and looking into leverless to keep playing Mishimas without killing my controller. Did not expect this at all from a keyboard content creator. That tangent is so funny because that's pretty much anyone deep in the keyboard hobby explaining how the hobby works hahaha
I was super on the fence the past few days on the F1, but decided not to join cuz its goated for the sound, which isn’t something I look for in keyboards anymore. More money for custom pads! I wanna try making my own leverless eventually
@@arpeykeys different strokes for different folks! So long as you're happy, hobbies are just dopamine boosters after all. Looking forward to that custom leverless idea! I mainly play Tekken and main Mishimas and have tried a leverless from a friend, kind of hesitant on it for now but its a fightbox and my main concerns seem to be solved by this Haute42 (lower buttons and smoothed out button edges). Still looking around.
Just got an m plus, and the screws feel a bit tight from factory, do the exposed tork screws hold the body or they're the ones behind the rubber feet? This is the only m series vid where I've seen it disassembled
It was finally decided on g13->t16->m13. I liked the 13 elegant, small, and simple buttons. If you are considering cost-effectiveness, there is no need to purchase a kitsune. It seems like hitboxes will continue to evolve in the future. It's like a keyboard. It is said that a larger size M version will be released soon. We look forward to the launch of wireless hitbox products.
I have the t16 which also has low profile switches. I actually prefer this compared to mx switches because the reduced travel distance can actually make frame perfect inputs like electrics more consistent
There's a few more premium leverless controllers out there. The FunFortress Slimbox Opi-1, and Roro Otaku Studio, and the Mpress nano are a few you might want to look into.
You can use the kailh v1 with them, kailh v2 has an extra pin, but it is used for stability only. The downside is you have to print your own buttons as it v1 has pillars and not mx stem, but it is way smoother than v2. The buttoncaps is also terrible on these, if you haven't had experience with punk workshop buttons they are way superior and feel solid than the cheap abs button caps they used
The LoFree Phantoms are excellent for these by the way. I picked them up and they have that better spring you crave. Button presses are crisp, less scratchy with an activation bump at the top of the travel so the instant you press the button you feel when it kicks in instead of depending on the bottoming out for tactility.
Good to know! I actually bought 70g springs to put in the reds and I’m mostly satisfied from that. A lot heavier feeling than I thought but I got used to it. I’m still looking to get some lofrees anyway tho!
@@arpeykeys Yeah, I've already sent out a set to someone out here in the Pacific Northwest. Would be nice if LoFree offered smaller switch packages, but so far I think they're worth it. Kind of really want to try out the Wizards next. :) Pretty cool Modding the heavier springs into the reds. Wish I had the dexterity to mod switches without the pieces flying off somewhere haha.
Do you happen to know which caps you have on your sally box? Ones i have are kinda slick, the ones on yours look like it has some sort of grip to them.
I've had the silver M13 and a black M16 for a few weeks. The silver version doesn't pickup near as much fingerprints as the black finish. Both have very nice build quality. Considering their quality versus cost, I think they represent a great bargain.
I just picked up a white one. Hoping that doesn’t show fingerprints at all since its a different coating. There’s like 10 of each left and only sold on their aliexpress store. Its not coming back cuz the coating process was too costly apparently.
@@arpeykeys I decided to get a M13 in black today and since you mentioned "white" and they still show white in stock, I ordered a white one as well. The silver one now shows to be out of stock on AliExpress but, I already have 2 in that color. I'm assuming the white color is the same finishing process as Keyboard makers call "E-White". I am not familiar with the process but I assume its an electro-plating process of some sorts. I'm glad you mentioned "white" or I probably wouldn't have noticed it on the site. My wallet is not so glad though.
@@turnadracohey, I just got mine yesterday! Idk exactly what their coating process is, but it reminds me of spray paint and a glossy clear coat. Its definitely not a fingerprint magnet, and I could only really see fingerprints under a bright light. I talked to some people and its the version 1 M-Pad with different keycaps and also an fr4 plate the switches mount to. Sounds less pingy or hollow than the version 2 m13 I reviewed.
It's a little unfortunate that most of the leverless controllers use low profiles, so my options were pretty limited since I like the flexibility that comes with standard keyswitches. If you're anything like me and don't care for low profiles you might be in for a bit of a hunt to find the right controller for you in the market right now, for me the right controller was the Sallybox, but well.. It has issues since it uses it's own fork of GP2040-CE that isn't supported by the community. Oh, also you don't have to disable the 'W' key on the M13 in SF6 tournaments and generally speaking you're allowed to have both that button and plenty of extras as long as they don't interfere with the SOCD cleaning rules or have macros. I don't know what the ruling in Tekken is, but most games allow you to have extra buttons with conditions like "You can't have extra movement buttons on the same side as your attack buttons." E.g. extra movement buttons in a row above X, Y, RB, LB on a hitbox.
Can someone explain to me what's the big difference between using a leverless and just a keyboard? Can't you make the exact same layout on your keyboard and it basically functions the same? Or does it? I'm just new to fighting games, right now I'm playing on d-pad of my 8bitDo Pro2 and I don't know if I should look into getting a stick or a leverless or maybe just keep using the d-pad
Its basically the same. The only thing different would be just the physical keys and their location. I think for me personally I much prefer using a leverless over keyboard because the keys are much bigger and my wrist placement can be a bit more comfortable. Its a preference thing and a lot of people actually play with keyboard. There are certain layouts where the right side are arcade buttons or switches with big keycaps and the left side is literally just WASD with normal keycaps. Look up mixbox and you’ll get an idea of what I mean. But its all preference in the end.
The main thing is how your hands rest on the leverless controller, but for me the most important thing is the attack buttons. All of the buttons are bigger, spaced out more and in very recognizable positions without other additional keys to confuse you. For the short time I played on KB I used qwe space for movement, 7890 uiop for buttons. I'd constantly end up accidentally pressing [ and - or get lost on the keyboard Also in games like SF6 where you have plenty of 2 button inputs hitting 8i (MP, MK) cleanly for example is much more difficult. There's also the benefit of them being potentially more portable and also highly customizable with things like artwork and specific buttons/caps Lastly, unlike with a keyboard (as far as I know) they're generally able to work with either a firmware update or a passthrough dongle like the Brook Wingman on just about every console. There's plenty of reasons to get one, there are also plenty of reasons to stick to pad, or to play on stick. I play on leverless because I developed carpel tunnel playing stick. The only thing I can suggest is trying it on keyboard, getting an affordable leverless from Haute42 if you like it and going from there-- And Haute42 controllers despite their price perform just as well as a Victrix or Kitsune, so don't think for a minute you're buying a worse product because of the price, I'd argue that because of the GP2040-CE firmware on Haute42 controllers that you're buying a BETTER product. c:
the other difference might be tournament viability, since keyboards don't socd clean, or support different socd modes. Even if you can't get simultaneous inputs, some games mandate specific socd modes, such as sf6 enforcing down + up= neutral instead of the old default where it would equal up. This is bevause SOCD cleaning allows certain "shortcuts" for inputs which change depending on your socd mode. The most basic example is instead of double talking right or left to dash, on hit box you can do left and quick press and release right to get a double left input, which gets you a very fast left, neut, left input to stimulate a doubletap
It's not very well known, but in some games keyboard inputs have a different SOCD rule. As an example in Tekken 8 the game uses "Last Input priority" as a SOCD rule on the software level, meaning a lot of SOCD shortcuts don't actually work on a keyboard.
I actually quite surprise why leverless controller manufacturer dont use magnetic switches like those lekker switches found on Wooting's keyboard, it has been proven to be helpful for games like FPS Rhythm games, and I am sure it helps with fighting games as well. I personally play fighting game on a wooting 60 HE and it suits me quite well
Anyone looking into getting a leverless for the first time, I highly recommend getting one with enough space to rest your whole hands/palms. It's just weird otherwise. Also, I would recommend getting the 16 button setups. You'll usually find a necessary use for them, and it's good to have too many buttons rather than not enough when these controllers aren't cheap.
Fyi, those aren't wireless adapters. They're just so you can get it to work with PS5 wired.
LOL fuck. Idk why I thought they were wireless. Dam mb
So the usb port is for wired ps5?
@@idbrooks yes, but you still connect to the PS5 with the main port. You just plug a dongle into the side port
@@millsjonah my small monkey brain is too small to comprehend 😅
Great video! I nerded out on controllers for melee years ago and this is the exact level of nerdiness I needed to inform my own decision for a pad for Tekken 8.
Thanks! I feel like this is just another rabbit hole I’m gonna go down, might end up doing a few more videos
The production quality is super nice in this video. Reminds me of how Optimum tech shoots his videos
Thanks! It took a lot of planning!
solid review and camera work man!
Thanks!
I’m so glad someone in the keyboard hobby is talking about leverless! Thank you for the video!
Lowkey I want to see some really cool intricate CNC’d designs for these controllers some day, even if it means someone running a GB lol
@@arpeykeys would love to see that too! I’d go crazy if theres a Singa leverless lmao
i would love it but the only thing that is a dealbreaker is the small edge digging into the palm. Great review!
Its worth considering if you just use the normal layout and not the WASD 'up' key. see my updated description lol
I am head deep in the keyboard hobby (Enter the f1 v2 GB if you havent yet hehe) and is a returning tekken player that broke another pad (5th dpad broken now haha) and looking into leverless to keep playing Mishimas without killing my controller. Did not expect this at all from a keyboard content creator.
That tangent is so funny because that's pretty much anyone deep in the keyboard hobby explaining how the hobby works hahaha
I was super on the fence the past few days on the F1, but decided not to join cuz its goated for the sound, which isn’t something I look for in keyboards anymore. More money for custom pads! I wanna try making my own leverless eventually
@@arpeykeys different strokes for different folks! So long as you're happy, hobbies are just dopamine boosters after all.
Looking forward to that custom leverless idea! I mainly play Tekken and main Mishimas and have tried a leverless from a friend, kind of hesitant on it for now but its a fightbox and my main concerns seem to be solved by this Haute42 (lower buttons and smoothed out button edges). Still looking around.
Just got an m plus, and the screws feel a bit tight from factory, do the exposed tork screws hold the body or they're the ones behind the rubber feet? This is the only m series vid where I've seen it disassembled
It was finally decided on g13->t16->m13.
I liked the 13 elegant, small, and simple buttons.
If you are considering cost-effectiveness, there is no need to purchase a kitsune.
It seems like hitboxes will continue to evolve in the future.
It's like a keyboard.
It is said that a larger size M version will be released soon.
We look forward to the launch of wireless hitbox products.
wow that sallybox was eye catching. I was ordering one but due to shipping and preparing time . .... sad. now it looked very good.
Just get the one from haute42 for more than half the price of the sallybox lol. It's the g13
I have the t16 which also has low profile switches. I actually prefer this compared to mx switches because the reduced travel distance can actually make frame perfect inputs like electrics more consistent
There's a few more premium leverless controllers out there. The FunFortress Slimbox Opi-1, and Roro Otaku Studio, and the Mpress nano are a few you might want to look into.
Dam those all make me wanna get used to the 12 button layout! Definitely would like to try the opi-1 eventually
You can use the kailh v1 with them, kailh v2 has an extra pin, but it is used for stability only. The downside is you have to print your own buttons as it v1 has pillars and not mx stem, but it is way smoother than v2. The buttoncaps is also terrible on these, if you haven't had experience with punk workshop buttons they are way superior and feel solid than the cheap abs button caps they used
Thank you for made the awesome video，I really appreciate it！！ Hope you enjoy it！❤
Yea np! Looking forward to the the bigger version!
The LoFree Phantoms are excellent for these by the way. I picked them up and they have that better spring you crave. Button presses are crisp, less scratchy with an activation bump at the top of the travel so the instant you press the button you feel when it kicks in instead of depending on the bottoming out for tactility.
Good to know! I actually bought 70g springs to put in the reds and I’m mostly satisfied from that. A lot heavier feeling than I thought but I got used to it. I’m still looking to get some lofrees anyway tho!
@@arpeykeys Yeah, I've already sent out a set to someone out here in the Pacific Northwest. Would be nice if LoFree offered smaller switch packages, but so far I think they're worth it. Kind of really want to try out the Wizards next. :) Pretty cool Modding the heavier springs into the reds. Wish I had the dexterity to mod switches without the pieces flying off somewhere haha.
Do you happen to know which caps you have on your sally box? Ones i have are kinda slick, the ones on yours look like it has some sort of grip to them.
Im not sure honestly :(
I've had the silver M13 and a black M16 for a few weeks. The silver version doesn't pickup near as much fingerprints as the black finish.
Both have very nice build quality. Considering their quality versus cost, I think they represent a great bargain.
I just picked up a white one. Hoping that doesn’t show fingerprints at all since its a different coating.
There’s like 10 of each left and only sold on their aliexpress store. Its not coming back cuz the coating process was too costly apparently.
will u give your thoughts about the white one? on ali there is only the black n white one left, wondering which one should i pick@@arpeykeys
@@arpeykeys I decided to get a M13 in black today and since you mentioned "white" and they still show white in stock, I ordered a white one as well. The silver one now shows to be out of stock on AliExpress but, I already have 2 in that color. I'm assuming the white color is the same finishing process as Keyboard makers call "E-White". I am not familiar with the process but I assume its an electro-plating process of some sorts. I'm glad you mentioned "white" or I probably wouldn't have noticed it on the site. My wallet is not so glad though.
@@turnadracohey, I just got mine yesterday! Idk exactly what their coating process is, but it reminds me of spray paint and a glossy clear coat. Its definitely not a fingerprint magnet, and I could only really see fingerprints under a bright light. I talked to some people and its the version 1 M-Pad with different keycaps and also an fr4 plate the switches mount to. Sounds less pingy or hollow than the version 2 m13 I reviewed.
It's a little unfortunate that most of the leverless controllers use low profiles, so my options were pretty limited since I like the flexibility that comes with standard keyswitches.
If you're anything like me and don't care for low profiles you might be in for a bit of a hunt to find the right controller for you in the market right now, for me the right controller was the Sallybox, but well.. It has issues since it uses it's own fork of GP2040-CE that isn't supported by the community.
Oh, also you don't have to disable the 'W' key on the M13 in SF6 tournaments and generally speaking you're allowed to have both that button and plenty of extras as long as they don't interfere with the SOCD cleaning rules or have macros.
I don't know what the ruling in Tekken is, but most games allow you to have extra buttons with conditions like "You can't have extra movement buttons on the same side as your attack buttons." E.g. extra movement buttons in a row above X, Y, RB, LB on a hitbox.
Can someone explain to me what's the big difference between using a leverless and just a keyboard? Can't you make the exact same layout on your keyboard and it basically functions the same? Or does it? I'm just new to fighting games, right now I'm playing on d-pad of my 8bitDo Pro2 and I don't know if I should look into getting a stick or a leverless or maybe just keep using the d-pad
Its basically the same. The only thing different would be just the physical keys and their location. I think for me personally I much prefer using a leverless over keyboard because the keys are much bigger and my wrist placement can be a bit more comfortable. Its a preference thing and a lot of people actually play with keyboard. There are certain layouts where the right side are arcade buttons or switches with big keycaps and the left side is literally just WASD with normal keycaps. Look up mixbox and you’ll get an idea of what I mean. But its all preference in the end.
The main thing is how your hands rest on the leverless controller, but for me the most important thing is the attack buttons.
All of the buttons are bigger, spaced out more and in very recognizable positions without other additional keys to confuse you. For the short time I played on KB I used qwe space for movement, 7890 uiop for buttons.
I'd constantly end up accidentally pressing [ and - or get lost on the keyboard
Also in games like SF6 where you have plenty of 2 button inputs hitting 8i (MP, MK) cleanly for example is much more difficult.
There's also the benefit of them being potentially more portable and also highly customizable with things like artwork and specific buttons/caps
Lastly, unlike with a keyboard (as far as I know) they're generally able to work with either a firmware update or a passthrough dongle like the Brook Wingman on just about every console.
There's plenty of reasons to get one, there are also plenty of reasons to stick to pad, or to play on stick. I play on leverless because I developed carpel tunnel playing stick. The only thing I can suggest is trying it on keyboard, getting an affordable leverless from Haute42 if you like it and going from there-- And Haute42 controllers despite their price perform just as well as a Victrix or Kitsune, so don't think for a minute you're buying a worse product because of the price, I'd argue that because of the GP2040-CE firmware on Haute42 controllers that you're buying a BETTER product. c:
the other difference might be tournament viability, since keyboards don't socd clean, or support different socd modes. Even if you can't get simultaneous inputs, some games mandate specific socd modes, such as sf6 enforcing down + up= neutral instead of the old default where it would equal up. This is bevause SOCD cleaning allows certain "shortcuts" for inputs which change depending on your socd mode.
The most basic example is instead of double talking right or left to dash, on hit box you can do left and quick press and release right to get a double left input, which gets you a very fast left, neut, left input to stimulate a doubletap
It's not very well known, but in some games keyboard inputs have a different SOCD rule. As an example in Tekken 8 the game uses "Last Input priority" as a SOCD rule on the software level, meaning a lot of SOCD shortcuts don't actually work on a keyboard.
for regular keyboards i generally prefer brown switches. how did brown feel on low profile? Is it comparable?
Yup, feels like a brown switch
Could i get silent switches for this? I really need that in a leverless stick.
Unfortunately no
I actually quite surprise why leverless controller manufacturer dont use magnetic switches like those lekker switches found on Wooting's keyboard, it has been proven to be helpful for games like FPS Rhythm games, and I am sure it helps with fighting games as well. I personally play fighting game on a wooting 60 HE and it suits me quite well
1:40 "Mouse scroll wheel for jump" OK calm down Satan
the g16 supports mx style
i still have that exact SF4 stick. but for tekken i use t16
Arpeykeys so lit. Doesn't just cover keyboard stuff
But its still a keyboard LOL
You don't have to buy a 90-pack of switches. They're also sold in 10 and 30-packs
Where?
@@arpeykeys Aliexpress. Not sure about Amazon but I thought that it's a standard since Russian stores offer same small packages
This is literally my situation
2 more months and hopefully they release the bigger M pad
Should have gotten the 16 button version
Anyone looking into getting a leverless for the first time, I highly recommend getting one with enough space to rest your whole hands/palms. It's just weird otherwise.
Also, I would recommend getting the 16 button setups. You'll usually find a necessary use for them, and it's good to have too many buttons rather than not enough when these controllers aren't cheap.
So they’re releasing a bigger metal version soon?
Probably around may or end of april
@@arpeykeys awesome, ill get that, i almost bought the current one, nice info there man👌
Then release today! I already buy my Haute M Plus ^^
Does this work on Xbox series s?
Needs a passthrough adapter like a mayflash
Analog to play sfiv?
Didn't know it was uncommon lol.
Can it work on an xbox series ?
Yea, just need an adapter.
@@arpeykeyswhat kind of adapter do you need?
What adapter do you need
Wait, why did you use the joystick?
Thats just how i played growing up lol.
@@arpeykeys I gotcha, it stuck out in my mind bc the dpad is actually easier to use but it was a good video all the same 💜.
00:16 , who uses the analog joystick for fighting games? I always used the Directional Pad , never the analog stick
endingwalker iirc
@@johannerikgonzalez3378 That kid gets a pass , he is GODLIKE with Godlike mastery. Do you play like that @johannerik ?
i dont like how small it is, probs gonna get a hitbox despite the price
Could try fightbox. They have one with a gp2040 in it with the classic 12 button layout for $100
Get a t13 or t16, noticeably larger.