Are special cables required for subwoofers?
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- One of the most neglected pieces of equipment in a high-end audio system is the subwoofer. For those savvy enough to add one and tune it properly, are there special cables required? Have a question for Paul? Head to www.psaudio.com...
The "high level from amp" connection to my $100 Dayton 12 inch sub was a "magical" improvement! Thanks so much Paul. I went for YEARS missing out on the importance of the "blending", it's amazing to me!
Hi Paul, just to let you know that even when you made a video 5 years ago, they are still greatly appreciated when one searches for the topic at hand. I just bought a REL Sub on Cyber Monday! Cheers
Love my REL. I got the HT 1205. Technically a Home Theater sub, but sounds amazing with music too. No high level inputs, but still great.
I did that amp to high-level input sub connection with my Vista Spark/Polk T50 system ❤, and the difference was Amazing! .. even with just a $100 (on sale) Dayton 12" powered sub. I had always (mistakenly it now appears) thought that, since the sub has it's own amp, using the low level signal closest to the source (in my case a splitter off of the DAC) would result in the best bass. But, including the sonic signature of the amp is definitely the way to go for that balanced sound I was after. Thanks so much Paul :)
Your voice is oddly calming Paul. Nice video!
I was stressing out because I just got a new sub that didn't have high level inputs! I never thought of splitting the signal from my pre amp! You honestly made my day. I've been looking so long for the solution to this. That being said, if i ever get a new sub, it will definitely have high level inputs.
I wonder if this "speaker cable connection /high level" is still the best. _I think_ that when you connect the speaker cables to the subwoofer (from the same amp as for main speakers) you create a time difference. The main speakers get the amplified signal but the subwoofer still needs to amplify the signal. If there is a sub-out or with DSP the signals will be processed and amplified at the same time.
I have experimented a lot with "speaker cable connection" but when the sub is further away from you than the main speakers, there will be a time alignment issue if you don't have DSP. The subwoofer cannot go back in time to get the signal earlier to be able to be in phase with the main speakers.
So I think a sub out or DSP is essential to be able to get the timing right. The dark sub thump and the fast main kick need to be exactly working together.
I'm not a sales man for MiniDSP but they have the 2x4HD 4 channel DSP for around $200. Your digital (or analog) signal connects to the little box and 4 analog out connections go to main amp and to subwooferS. You can control everything on your laptop or a simple remote. For $100 buy a Umik calibrated microphone and measure your sound with free Room EQ Wizzard and adjust with DSP. Total control! Nice!
I disagree. I had a Monster Cable Subwoofer cable that I used for decades to run my subwoofer on the LFE channel. When I upgraded my system to a better amp that had 2 LFE channels. I upgraded my subwoofers to NHT. I ran the tried and true Monster up and at the time I didn't have any other "sub woofer" cable so I used a standard audio, out-of-the-box variety to connect it. I had to crank both of those NHT amps to full volume to get any sort of bass out of it. Also, one of the NHTs would make noise like mores code when it was idle. I was highly disappointed. Some months later, I decided to upgrade the subwoofer cables. I bought 2 Audioquest Boxer cables. Finally, there was some bass and it was tighter, more controlled and less mushy rattle and rumble. The noise went away.
I later learned that the way bass information is sent is via a 1V signal. If you have a crappy, sub-par cable, it may not send the 1V in all its power. Additionally, I learned that subwoofers that have stereo inputs require 2V to power. So you need a Y splitter. Then the 1V signal travels to 2 ports, giving the sub 2V. When I added a splitter, I was finally able to turn the volume down on the NHT amps as the bass was nearly overwhelming.
SO, from *MY* anecdotal experience, you need a better cable to run to your sub.
just some with proper shielding..
I've tested my subwoofer with a thick shielded rca subwoofer cable and a cheap rca cable. The subwoofer wasn't an 3xpensive one. My av receiver has two subwoofer outputs. Both subwoofer outputs are identical and the crossover can't be set differently between both outputs.i connected both cables to the sub oug on the av receiver at the same time.
With the cheap thin rca cable the bass is there but kind of low and had slight mid4ange in the bass. With the eubw9ofed cable (it cost about €12 for 15' which was 5' too long) the difference 2as big. The bass was deeper and slightly louder. The cheap rca cable was 5' shorter than the heavilyshielded subwoofer rca cable.
I had a sub with a long (cheapish, unbalanced) cable from the pre amp and it was clearly underperforming. I replaced the cable with coaxial on the offchance it would help. The difference was amazing.
Thanks Paul appreciate the advise My PW has high input for banana plugs guess I'll run from b-speaker out put from amp - I didn't know the sw-pre out rca put a strain on the amp
What'd better a sealed subwoofer or ported subwoofer
I recently changed my cheap RCA cable running to my subwoofer with one from Blue Jeans Cables and it sounds better to me.
Which cables from blue jeans did you use?
@@JuanLega, Google their contact information and just ask for their RCA subwoofer cable.
Gotta love the placebo effect
Doug Davis good thing your opinion doesn’t matter. It’s not you that’s having to buy the snake oil. If it sounds better to them...more power to em.
@@blakemccreery864 No, it is not "more power to them", it is less power to us all.
Those myths hurt the market and introduce confusion. There are even cables with integrated batteries (yes, AA 1.5 v battery sticked to the cable) from big brand manufacturers for big bucks. Now there no way in hell that batteries do anything but their marketing page is quadruple A4 of tight text explaining to you why it does work and how its way better than anything you heard. Theres a subgroup of audiphiles that "listens to the cables", i shit you not. They refer it as that, "have you listened to XYZ cable", i mean thats borderline delusional.
Cable has to be:
- copper (anything over 90% is sufficient)
- properly terminated (!!!)
- proper diameter for its length (if the cable is long it needs to be thicker, certain ratio has to be followed)
That is all there is.
PS Audio = Great Great Company .
Most subs today dosn't have high level input connections. SVS does not make them any more. The only option is using pre - out connections on your integrated amp or Preamp , meaning using two rca cables to connect your Preamp or Inegrated amp to your Subwoofer .
Have talked with SVS and they have told me - Using the pre - out outputs on your integrated amp is the way to go .
It might be that SVS is trying to sell their Subs to a non home theater guy like me rather then carrying for the best sounding results ...
This or that , still today there are no other options then using the pre-out outputs on your integrated amp or Preamp.. It is interesting if using thise Pre- out outputs will soundwise produce a well integrated sub with the existing speakers.
What does constitute a "long" cable? When you talk about relative units its best to put out a reference point.
Bump?
Thanks Paul!
I am running my powrred sub to the back if the room and wanted to use just speaker wire. Or do I need shielded. Clearly low power to the sub. I had found what I consider conflicting advice.
This is probably a silly question but: when you use the high level inputs from the amp to the sub, it only reads the voltage and uses that for the frequency right? It doesn’t use the input for power, turning the sub into a passive subwoofer right?
The salesman at an audio store told me it’s best not to use the high level inputs because it takes power from the amp, but I’m pretty sure he’s wrong.
shanon Stevens he is full of shit. Your assessment is correct
The high level input is dropped in amplitude with a pair of opamps (down to line level the same as RCA), then the L & R inputs are summed together to create a mono signal for the subs amplifier. The stereo amplifier will not "see" the sub as the input level is high compared to a being low in a speaker. The big down side to high level input is cheap equipment with little power passing distortion onto the sub.
I use the B channel to sub via speaker wire.A channel for mains .it works great..
Set it up like Paul says.adjust sub so mains sound like there producing base.it works
What about matching speaker impedence to the wire?
Probably more theoretical...
An electrical engineer I lived with asked me if I matched impedence when I came home with expensive speaker wire...
He cranked out the calculus and explained reflections but had no 'intuition' or experience with speakers.
Did I know? Nope...
Sound great... yes.
I have a diferent experience on this matter. I built an DIY subwoofer in isobaric aproach using on closed back box. Very ineficient I know. But whats I was looking for was a very well tuned bass with great transient response and low distortion for music reproduction. What I can tell Is I made some research reading reviews to buy a good and cheap interconnects with Fast good bass no mater if do not blow the walls. I found the Kimber pbj and for me had a very good performance. I switch the pbj for Kimber hero y others from Voodoo cable (hiend) interconnects. And the pbj works better in this system. Good tunefull musical bass. Very nice indeed. Greetings
When you use the high level outputs, you lose the ability to crossover the main speakers. Is this ideal? I am about to try this with my setup. I don't have high level outputs on the subwoofer, but I can run it off the "Speaker B" output.
technically no. doing that will make crossing them over a lot harder. and without crossing over at all, there's going to be a huge peak in a range of frequency that the mains and the sub are overlapping. what Paul said might be true but it's pretty much nothing when compared to how much the speaker itself can express its own personality.
Thanks for the info.
Paul, you give Sound advice..Can you explain how your BHK monoblocks are connected in series or in parallel ?
Thank you Paul!
I've only seen 2 videos and thats all I needed to find my go to guy =) Paul, respectfully,, well done and I really enjoy how you explain things and I am new to sound but have loved it my whole life,, my 11 year old Daughter is a born natural at the piano and she wants to make Dance music so sound is even more important now so thank you so much for your efforts to help the people who need it!!
So i walked into an already installed behind the wall (no conduit) 72 feet speaker cable they planned to connect from an AV receivers sub RCA output to a powered subwoofer RCA in, and there is a loud hum noise, there cannot be another installation of cable behind the wall, what can i do?
I learned this lesson the hard (but relatively inexpensive) way. Spent $60 on a "subwoofer cable" when I bought the sub. It connected sub out to LFE in on the sub. I realised I wanted to control the crossover level on the sub so I put a 2 dollar single RCA to red / white stereo RCA (I'm not sure what those splitters are actually called). Now the audio quality is exactly the same but my sub is transparent.
I used subwoofer out socket on the amp to line level inputs on the sub. Is that the same as what you're doing?
I have a serious question. I have bought 2 different types of powered subwoofers and have inboxes them and the broken Polk audio one sounded way better than any of these 2 and these 2 are supposed to be way better. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong
What a gentleman!
Great message
I got a razer leviathan sound bar with a proprietary port with a non coax cable that isn't available to plug into the sound bar anymore. Can you use a wire to male rca adapter to a set of book shelf speakers with a built-in pre amp like the yu6 have.
Great videos. Love your channel. I’m a little confused. Can I use speaker cables say 12 AWG cables with rca connectors and use that for subs ?
Hey Paul, I have a question... I have a Samsung Smart TV, a PYLE PTA66BT.5. The receiver is 600W and I have it connected to Z5500 speakers which I think are 300W. I also have a 300W sub. When listening to radio or anything it is freaking loud. I can't bring it anywhere near the 3O max level, only half. Here is my problem. Connecting the receiver through via bluetooth the sound I would say is 65% less of what it should be. I have to crank it all the way up to 30 to have it decent, but it is no way as loud as it should be. Is there any way to fix this? Is it because it's connected via bluetooth? ANY advice or help you can give would be appreciate.
Thank you mine has 2 hand turn nuts for speaker wire that came with a sound system and trying to use it on my small speaker set it has a sub out.
great videos really helped me a lot!
If sub is powered with main speaker sound signature, won't there be lot of Overlaping and uneven frequency response?
Thank you sir.
few questions since i am stuck
the problem is subwoofer ofc......
i want to output my pc sound 5.1 over rca i got adapter for and they work.
the subwoofer channel from my pc dont output sound for music so i need to filter it from the main front speaker channel.
i dont have good speakers to fully convert my normal 5.1 for pc system to a theater surround like system.
i dont have a real subwoofer but got a big 12" speaker(woofer type?) with foam around.
i dont know the watt of the random brand a woofer type speaker.
i dont have other speaker for now.
i got the following
jvc a-gx5 stereo integrated amplifier 85 watt per channel stereo.
technics sa-ax720 6 ch with his own subwoofer input/output unknow if it has integrated filter.
2 Equalizer (realistic 5 band / 10 band ss-100sl).
Logitech Z4 2.1 speakers.
Logitech z-640 5.1 speakers.
some tweeter x2
Low budget T_T
i know they bit old
Question 1:
is it possible for some EQ to need an amp/preamp ? since the SS EQ got a low signal when i output the sound through the JVC amp to the EQ, the spectrum analyser start moving that why i am asking.
when i use the EQ -) JVC amp -) to woofer i dont get much power because of the EQ.
Question 2:
can i use an EQ to replace an crossover ?
Question 3:
i plan on buying real subwoofer and make an box for it and i want to know all kind of possible equipement(crossover.etc) more about that could be needed and i need direction for my search
Question 4:
are there good way of using CAR amp with house theater ? kind of silly since they need a car battery or other 12v power supply conrresponding wattage (power supply good for sound system? to replace car battery?)
Bad at grammar but tried my best
i dont like posting on random forum
Why are Clear Components (Clear Components GmBH) plugs almost half the price on their store/ Ebay store after 3 years?
My sub woofer manual stated that using rca at all cost. Only use speaker cable as last resort.
Yes, and they would be incorrect if your goal is to have the subwoofer blend into the speaker system. What they are espousing is old school thinking. Not uncommon. It's what engineers do that don't listen a lot.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Possibly your sub's amplifier is receiving more of what your main speakers are experiencing>>> by using high level inputs as you suggest. However, won't there be a slight time delay since the sub's amp still has to process and then amplify the signal?
With RCA line level inputs, the timing should be closer since both your speakers and the subwoofer have to then have the line level signal processed and then amplified, and of course by the two different amps. Whichever one is faster, wins the timing race. ;) My bet is on the amp driving the mains.
But with either setup, and without the use of DSP, it would appear a subwoofer should be forward and not behind the mains.
So Paul, or PS Audio, why are the sub arrays on the IRS 5 behind the mids and tweeters? The acoustic center of the low bass driver is farther back, low bass drivers and subs are often criticized for lagging behind the mids, and more importantly they'll lag since they have to recieve a high level input already amplified which then needs to be processed and rolled over and then amplified again.
Do the IRS 5's use a high pass 12db filter on the mids and highs? That would introduce a phase shift and essentially behave as a time delay where the subs (low bass driver array) could be placed further back.
Thanks to anyone for even reading this, let alone answering it. ;)
@@thunderpooch At the frequencies we work with, 100Hz and below, the signal delay you refer to is non-existent. The time it takes to go through the amplifier is measured in microseconds. Also, placement of the woofers relative to the IRSV wings doesn't really change anything discernable. Remember, the frequencies are, at these frequencies, measured in feet. Moving a tweeter is different. There, inches matter. But woofers, not so much until you get whacky with distances.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio thanks so much, I wasn't sure if timing was enough of an issue or not.
Paul... U ROCK! Thx 4 da info. Stay cool. 💯✌😎
Dude, you and grand or band stand all the live long day 😊
Can I splice a yellow rca cable and connect it to a subwoofer that has a negative and positive cable?
And then can I connect the yellow rca cable to a home theater av receiver?
L
Hi so I wanna set up my amp to my sub correctly
Da2400es Sony receiver
Asw600 b&w sub
And s3 600 series b&w front and back and centre lol
I predominantly use this as a 5.1 for firms and TV and when early enough music.
It's the cable from the amp to the sub I'm more interested in please.
It's a mono out and a l&r input
Mr. Roger or Paul all good !
So... are special cables required for subwoofers? No? Then RCA works fine? Someone even suggested the video (yellow) cable works... what? I need some some facts here! I don't want to buy more cables when I have RCAs laying everywhere already. If I don't need a subwoofer cable, then why do they make them? Some claim they are made differently, but I don't know if I buy that. Aren't they the same as RCA? What cable do I use? Is there something wrong with using the Sub Out on an AVR? I need a more info... :(
EDIT: If I seem like I'm rambling and ranting, its because I've been looking for information for weeks, and no definitive proof seems to exist.
My sub has the red black speaker wire and rca plug ins. Do i need to connect both to my av receiver?
Not both of them. But in order to check what's best, it'll be better to know what brand and model your sub and receiver is. Is there a manual for the sub at hand? If yes what does it say?
@@Yiannis2112the leviton aeh50-bl jbl. The manual only mentions where to place it in my room.
@@eternalbeing3339 Give me the av receiver model and brand, too...
@@Yiannis2112 Onkyo TX-SR393
@@eternalbeing3339 Your subwoofer manual is not only showing where to place it, but also everything else
www.leviton.com/en/docs/DI-000-AEH50-02B_060616.pdf
Go to page 5 of total 6. Page 5 of the pdf file, is actually labeled as page 8 in the manual. First paragraph is titled: DOLBY* DIGITAL OR DTS®
(OR OTHER DIGITAL SURROUND MODE) CONNECTION. Read it
Go to the Onkyo's manual at
www.it.onkyo.com/downloads/3/4/5/3/6/Manual_TX-SR393_En.pdf
Go to Page 11 and 12. Check what it says about No 9 connection (Subwoofer Preamp out, labeled as output 6 on its back panel). Then read Page 22 and what it says about connecting a powered subwoofer like yours. That's it. I'm just wondering why you haven't done this already. It's just a few minutes search...
I usually just bland stand.
Thanks for all these great videos! So I have mine hooked up from av sub out to my sub via rca y-adapter, sounds louder than if plugged into sub only through left input. Is that ok? Or is there a better way?
Yeah I was hoping for a more direct answer about the cables in this video... The question was do I need a special "subwoofer cable?" That's what I was wondering too. Or can I just use a halfway decent RCA cable? What's the difference? Some claim the subwoofer cable is made differently, but I don't know that I buy that... Searching forums only proves no one really knows...
@@mrhobs theres no "real" evidence. Just get an actual subwoofer cable, they claim to send better low frequencies. But if you're too broke just use rca cables until you get a concrete answer, then you could splurge on a "subwoofer cable".
@@HermesTrismegistes369 Thanks for the input, and sorry for writing a book here, feel free to skip...
Yeah, I'm not really broke, and I'm willing to spend spend if it makes a difference. I just don't like being ignorant. :)
I guess if it doesn't strain the receiver or speakers at all, I may try a regular RCA cable, but just to make myself feel like I'm doing things right I'll probably have to get a subwoofer cable. Oh well, ha.
Another thing I've been thinking... what if go out from my receiver to the speaker inputs on my subwoofer, and then out to the speakers? Wouldn't that decrease degradation (like 6 ft cable to the sub, and 6 ft to the speakers) over doing one long 12 foot cable from the receiver to the speakers (and a separate cable to the sub)?
Would that even provide signal to the sub, or are those speaker plugs strictly for daisy chaining speakers? I guess the latter may be true, but still beneficial to have that powered sub in the middle of the run of cable. That's what I thought I heard on an Audioholics video anyway...
GLO-TUBE receiver A or B to hi level speaker terminals. Then daisy chain from the hi level to your left and right speaker.
@@blakemccreery864 Hmm... interesting. I may have to try it eventually. Already got my pair of 12 ft 14 gauge speaker cables and a 15 ft subwoofer cable... Yep, may experiment with what you're saying eventually. (Also, I have a Denon AVR 3806, so not too ancient.)
Rel subwoofers are Welsh not English.
Built mainly by BK Electronics which are English ;-)
Thanks Mr. Geography. You're really smart.
@@ivorproblem1332 You have to give the Welsh something in Life lol. Ps are Nissan/Honda cars English
since some are built in England?My old Rel subwoofer says Made in Wales end of story.
@@dougdavis8986 Hope you found it on a map.
Does anyone have his email address?
You need to go out and buy a specific subwoofer cable for no less than $10,000! 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
What a bargain!!
Subs are mono, its does all he same thing.
your every answer is not allays straightforward. or even may not be understand what u say ,
I don't understand what YOU say :-))
Just a couple of weeks ago I emailed those guys at PS Audio. I wanted to ask them about exactly what John is talking about. I talked to a sales guy about my preamp bogging down with the low input sub option. He had no idea what I was talking about, so he forwarded me to another guy. He asked me what PS Audio gear I had and if it wasn't I need to call the manufacturer of my not PS Audio sub or preamp. I think I have a pretty good system for the money I make and if I ever make enough to buy stuff like PD Audio I would rather jab my eardrums out with the sharp dults at PS Audio where they treat people like they treated me. Maybe you should know who works for you John, I was really disappointed. Go ask Joey he'll tell ya all about it, the prick.
But you use the opposite logic on subwoofers to say they don't much care about their cord (because they're low frequency anyway). So then you can't use the logic that there are relevant/discernible "sonic characteristics" way down there at 35hz TO convey to the subwoofers. So . . . which is it? Yes it matters if you use a "subwoofer" cable not just a non specific audio cable, because counter intuitively there actually IS a good deal of "revealing" possible even below where a four string bass guitar can reach, and therefore it also makes a difference to use your power amp to . . . enhance . . . the signal? I've heard an awful lot of people shit on Bob Carver with that exact same logic. Or no, it doesn't make a difference whether your cable says monster subwoofer and is made of the best materials known to man, because at such low frequencies all you need is a good signal really, and therefore it also doesn't matter whether you use powered inputs or not. Except, doing that causes your mains to no longer be full range. Some would say that greatly benefits the power amp similar to the benefits to the high frequency drivers as a result of bi-amping. But then, that is NEVER the reason you cite when you continually state that it's better. Nor do you state that by using the subwoofer I/O in front of the power amp, one adds to the signal path, although I don't really know how much that could really degrade the signal, I mean come on how picky can we be. But okay there's a way around that; just split the signal before it's powered, so you can still use the line level inputs AND not run the signal through an alien circuit board before the power amplifier NOR introduce a crossover. So it seems that might work, except I don't know what that does to input voltages or loads or whatever. And I guess you're not going to answer since I didn't mail it in or whatever lol
Is that a statement or a question or a lot of both? Using high level inputs does not make your mains not play full range unless you use the high level outputs for your mains on the sub. And Paul doesn't recommend that.
The idea behind using the high level inputs is probably the belief that the amplifier itself colors the sound a bit.
But I too find it odd that this is important since the difference will be slight and that you're still going to have the sub's amp introduce its own sound on top of the main amplifier. And there will also be a greater time delay using the high level inputs since a line level source which is now amplified and sent to the subwoofer, has to have it crossed over and amplified again.
I was interested in hearing your opinions on frequency actually. Should stayed on the tangent