DCC Circuit protection Pt 2 .
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- The trial of the NCE "Lamp" overload boards has been a resounding failure , as I suspected. SO it's in with the NCE -EB1 electronic circuit breakers. These work very well but not with out issues when you use relay based auto reversers, which we sort out and then put the "Lamps" to good use on local faults.
I don't argue that an electronic circuit breaker is the best option, but I got a lamp circuit breaker, bought it in Germany, that holds these little cylindrical glass tube circuit breakers you can find in the automotive industry.
Originally the bord comes with standard 3amp fuses, but you can change them to any amp you want.
They are very cheap and you can buy them going form values of 0,25amps to 30amps, they all are the same size, but obviously the wire thickness in the fuse determents the value of max. amps it can withstand.
So I take a general rule of staying maximum 1amp under the output of my controller, as this is the main player you want to protect.
A nice feature of this bord is, that once the fuse is gone, a LED shows you witch one is gone, so when you work with multiple sections, you can protect each section separate, and know where the problem is located.
It can be used on DC, AC(Märklin system) and DCC.
Lot's of good info! Thank you for taking the time to explain it...
~Deryk
Thanks Deryk! Was a bit of a learning curve but happy with the outcome.
Cheers Gregg.
Thanks Gregg, I am running A DCC+ system using and Arduino motor shield. The current monitoring in the motor shield has proven to provide excellent short circuit protection. It cuts the power instantly. So it turns out I don’t appear to need anything else. Great channel Gregg! Keep ‘em coming! Kind regards.. Chris
Fishplatet, great video and thank you for the explanation. I payed very close attention to the last part where you explain the interface of a circuit breaker in conjunction with an auto-reverse, this is something I had no idea about, but glad that I watched your video. I use the EB-1 for all areas of my layout and have not had a problem with them, but it seems when I get to my loco facility I will have to be very aware of how I wire the tracks along with the reverse loop! Very good video and thank you for posting this.
Cheers!
D. Muse
Hi David and thank you for the comments. It was a learning curve for me and if you had no electrical background, it could be a big headache for some people to fix the issues. The trouble with DCC is that it can be very technical if you get into it. If you use a electronic AR, you won't have the same issues as the analogue ones cause.
Cheers Gregg.
I like that idea of having the bulbs on the yard tracks!
Yes Joe, turns out they are good for something..LOL
Thanks for watching.
Gregg.
Thank you for the information, always great to learn a little something new about the hobby.
You're welcome Jack! I learn something new every time I work on the layout..especially in the scenery department!!
Cheers Gregg.
Still debating what I should do, in the planning stage. I want to keep it simple. Great demonstration, your not lazy just landscaping challenged! Lol. Might need to call you the professor, it’s amazing how much you know. Cheers from hot and humid Nebraska. Terry
Hi Terry, I think the combination of the two is a cost effective way of protecting your layout, but at the start I would get at least 2 ECb's . I sure am "landscape challenged"..LOL. Don't know about professor....,but I have learnt a bit in nearly 40 yers of model railroading, but it is the last few years with all the DCC tech stuff, that is the most challenging, and frustrating!
But thank you for the comment and thanks for watching sir!
Cheers Gregg.
Looking good mate!
Thanks for the update. I may try the car bulb set up in the smaller of my two yards and see how it goes. I've got 3 circuit breakers from Tam Valley but haven't installed them yet.
Cheers!
Stew.
Thanks Stew! I thought I was going backwards after I put these in, plus having a loco with a burnt out motor didnt help as it also was tripping the CB's !! It was a few frustrating days on the Sub" !!! Worked on Sunday so couldn't make it , but will try the next one mate.
Cheers Gregg.
hi Gregg.. you vids are always filled with great info... thanks for sharing... vinny
Hi VInny! Thank you , but it's no scratch build ...LOLI'll leave the detailed modelling to you mate!! Appreciate the support and comment.
Cheers Gregg,
Yes, i have 3 from DCC Specialties.......not the bulbs, the circuit board, like yours, they work really well. I also have the auto reverser from DCC Specialties....
They are good devices, but can be complicated due to their abilities. The Auto reverser you have will work well with these CB's , being digital as well.
Thanks for watching.
Cheers Gregg.
Great video. You always make my day!
Thank you Paul! I'm glad you enjoy the videos and get some thing from them.
Regards , Gregg
Great tips thanks for taking time to make it
Thank you! Glad you liked it.
Cheers Gregg.
Question time: I use the NCE Powercab that in itself trips out when there is a short... Now, the issue I have is, there is no indication of a short. Some ppl have said the display on the Powercab flickers but I have never seen this. So I will take a step back and say that I currently have two DPDT switches connected to my layout. One for the MAIN / PROGRAM track so I can switch between the two. It is wired up via two LED's so I can see at a glance what is connected without having to worry about looking at the physical position of the switch. The other DPDT switch is for my turntable in order to switch polarity when the turntable has rotated 180 degrees. This switch is also wired up via two LED's that are labelled NORMAL and REVERSE. So at any given state I will have 2 LED's displayed at all times. Now when I get a short ALL MY LED's turn off. This is a great indicator for me that OUCH, I have a short.
Even with the Power cab Philip, it is not a bad idea to use extra over current protection , this will prevent the whole layout shutting down on a fault, but it also depends on the size of the layout if this is worth it.
Gregg 🙂
If you are using keep alive on your engines you want the trip current 3.5, the cir breaker has to take the current from keep alives... great video..
Thank you !I can't see how a Keep alive can draw extra current, maybe on start up but you would need a lot of units coming online at once to cause a problem?
I don't use them so I have no experience on that issue.
Cheers Gregg.
4 engines with keep alive and add water to the equation,thanks
THANK YOU...for sharing. Good information.
A trick: watch series at Flixzone. Me and my gf have been using it for watching all kinds of movies recently.
@Cristian Jeremy Definitely, have been using Flixzone for years myself =)
I enjoy your videos. Have you thought about using a PLC to monitor and protect your system? I would recommend using your lights with fuses for every circuit. Keep your light on by latching it with a relay or PLC and then the fuse will blow. This will protect your wire and connections and let you know that you have a blown fuse. Then you can look for your short. Reset latch when finished. You could even add an audible alarm. You could have a PLC do all of this for you including the over current or even overload.
Thanks Mark. That sounds way too involved for me...the EB1's are smart enough without adding more complexity and you can have alarms and indication sent to your panel if you use JMRI or similar. Fuses would be impractical as they would need replacing and there are indications on the board to show a fault. But if you like playing with PLC's you could do whatever you like!
Cheers Gregg.
Could use a microlok and go slightly prototypical
Yeah,, if I had tens of thousands of dollars to spend..LOL . I work on that at work and don't want it at home! Plus thousands to write a interlock programme, ...I think I'll stick with JMRI.
Gregg :-)
great update ty for sharing
Thanks Hillbilly!! Glad you liked it .
Cheers Gregg.
Great info,thanks Mate.
Thanks Jon! Hope you got some tips from it.
Gregg :-)
Very interesting vid , was wondering how the electronic circuit breakers would work with the auto reverses !!
Cheers Glynn
Hi Glynn, yes it was a bit frustrating to begin with but once it is sorted it all works very well together. But NCE need to mention this in the info of the CB's.
Thanks for watching mate.
Cheers Gregg.
Hey Gregg have you seen the New Goodies from NCE they have an updated there EB1 they call her 📞 the EB1 v 1.1 it can Now be used with NCE's Powercabs and setting the Trip Sets have been updated tremendously it shows how you can Easily set them up Sir in the EB1's New Manuel And NCE Has Released a New Auto Reverser and in this new Auto Reverser Gregg it has a Circuit breaker Built into it, It's Damn Sharp piece of Equipment Gregg & I think NCE is going to repute itself back on the High High Shelf in cutting Edge Products I'm for sure going see if the New EB1 is available at my Hobbie Shop I frequent and for Guys needing a Reverser Real Bad one that Now has a Circuit breaker built in Hopefully there on Hobbyshop shelves will be Stocked with themas Well..
This is Great Info and for Powercab owners a Game changer for them as they can Now protect there PowerCabs as model Railroaders or Clubs that have them on there Big Systems
No I havent, but I will check them out! A digital auto reverser is very welcome, and while the Digitrax AR1 is a great unit , it is getting a bit old now and the relay is a bit slow to react, especially with the EB1's! My system is till going strong after 15 years so I love NCE stuff!
Thanks for watching and for the info!
Cheers Gregg.
G'day Gregg.. great info... May I ask where you bought the NCE -EB1 electronic circuit breaker?
Thanks Christopher ! I got these from Model Train Stuff in the US , before the AU dollar crashed!! Compare prices her now before you order online!
Cheers Gregg.
Nce recommends to set it there for engine's with them....
TKS FOR EXPLANING THAT VERRY GOOD VID.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I DON'T A REVERSE .
I see you found the next video Skip! I hope this helps and thanks for watching.
CHeers Gregg.
I guess I need to know... The NCE Powercab automatically trips the power during a short, so... Why would I need a circuit breaker ??? What is the benefit ???
The Pro cab system has a 5 amp breaker, which is a huge load when it trips. Installing section CB's , set at around 1 amp, limits the current on a short and prevents the entire layout shutting down everytime a fault occurs. Also you can isolate the problem quicker , as it only trips the section with the fault .
CHeers Gregg.
Afternoon. I'm trying to find the first part of DCC Circuit protection, now that I've seen the Pt 2. Is it named differently?
B
Good question Butch! I thinks it is 'Using bulbs for overload protection" maybe??
G'day fellow Queenslander! I'm building an N-scale layout which will (currently) run from just a single NCE PowerCab, running maybe two or three locos. Layout is about 1m x 4m. Will contain a yard and a couple of industry sidings throughout, with one or two loops / polarity changes. Do you reckon the CP6 is good enough? NCE specifically say the Powercab starter set is limited to the CP6 only, the EB1 won't protect the Powercab. They also say the CP6 circuit board has room for soldering sections together to provide multiple amps worth of protection to a single circuit. Any thoughts on this?
Hi Dan, good to hear from a local! The CP6 would be ideal for a Powercab, and I feel that is what they should sell it for and not anything bigger. With N scale you won't need to combine the lamps and it will be ideal for your layout as the Powercab only puts out about 1 amp and the EB 1 only goes down to 2.5 amps.
I say go for it!
Cheers Gregg.
Gregg great video, I just installed my EB1 circuit breakers , only using one at this time, mine was set to 1.5 amps should I change this to 2.5 amps, more to learn
Gregg I adjusted the current setting to 3.2 , hooked up my WifiTrax interface, was running 3 trains today , worked great
Thanks James! The trip current wasn/t a problem and for most cases , 1.5 amps is fine, but the trip reaction time was the issue with the old auto reverser. They are great and I have forgotten how to adjust them ...so I'll have to watch the video..LOL.
Cheers Gregg.
Hey Gregg something I wanted to Ask and for the Reason I just Got myself a SB5 Smart Booster from NCE and those new Circuit Breakers probably I'd need I'd say about 5 of them if you need to make adjustments with CV'S is that done by them being hooked up with Track power and the signal passes through them like programming a Decoder.? I wanna hook my SB5 up to my inner Route but with No Circuit Breakers yet it might have set in its Box for little bit ya buy this stuff🤭 then ring ding ding ding you run out of pocket jingle and your project is on Hold but I think the SB5 was good move moving forward.. with my Layout.. I think you can Run the SB5 with just ProCab I have a ProCab-r but I see on alot a Videos about the SB5 where there Running it with a Powercab I'm hoping its OK to Run it with just my ProCab-r Guess we'll see 👀 or Call ED @ NCE
But Any Hoo hope your Doing Good Mr. Gregg If you have some Time please give my Channel a look and if you have already I'm getting too old and I might of forgotten that I asked ya😉 Sir.. Happy Holidays🚂🚂🚂🚂
Sorry for thr late reply! If you havent found the answer yet , yes the adjustments are made like CV's on a decoder.I think the Power Cabs need a different booster? I'll stop by and check out your channel !
Cheers Gregg.
Nice tip
Thank you !
Gregg .
Gregg , could you tell me the size of a nce- eb1 ? Setting up a panel and could use that dimension. Thanks Jim
Hi Jim. They are about 40mm x 90mm.
Gregg :-)
FishplateFilms
Thanks again ,cheers
Greg great videos and good to see those old light bulb circuit breakers being useful in their 'Old-Age' ... p.s. i wasn't at all offended by your video in any way what so ever
Thanks Jake! I'm glad I can still use the lamps since I hate buying something I can't use! No offence meant, that was Richard being a smart a@ss LOL . It's an Aussie thing!! Now Lord Stan is another story !!
Cheers Gregg.
Hi buddy it is Neil schwerdt in west valley city Utah how are you doing ?
I miss watching you on CZcams.
Oh how is your ho layout doing in your new home ?
Please text me it's be a long time see you on CZcams.
From Neil schwerdt
Very interesting topic Greg. And I thought DCC was just two wires....! I use the EB1 and find them very good. HOWEVER on a more serious note....you mentioned "old girls" in your commentary and I am forced to remark how politically incorrect this statement is in this day and age........:) P.S. is it cold up north, your wearing two shirts! Cheers.
It's still only two wires Richard..LOL. Yes you're right , I should of said a person of undecided gender and unknown age.......ie an old slapper!! Complaints to Lord Stan!!
It has been cold up here, especially on track at night!!
Thanks for watching sir,
Cheers Gregg.
Screw the PC crap! Tell it how it is!!
That's Lord Stan's Department Stew..LOL
I do like all these circuit breakers and things you put on the layout. I wish mine was large enough to warrant them.
It only has seven points and the frogs are controlled by a frog juicer so no shorts anyway, at least not though them!
You could check it out if you subbed my channel. Keith
They are nice but it's all more money Keith! The frog juicers are a great idea and I will be using some of them in the future. I'll check out your channel.
Cheers Gregg.