Church of England "change their morality every decade", says actor and broadcaster Stephen Fry.
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- Church of England "change their morality every decade", says actor and broadcaster Stephen Fry.
(Subscribe: bit.ly/C4_News...)
-------
Watch more of our explainer series here - • Coronavirus Explained
Get more news at our site - www.channel4.c...
Follow us:
Facebook - / channel4news
Twitter - / channel4news
I once heard the Church of England described as a church without the hassle of a religion to go with it.
As a Baptist, I think baptism is the most laid-back "version" (if you will) of Christianity.
@joe1205 Has there ever been a Baptist minister who said he didn't believe in God? There was once a C of E bishop who said he didn't.
A couple of months later, a cathedral 76 miles away got struck by lightning. Members of the Church of England said that was God's retribution. Which I thought was a distespectful comment on God's aim.
@@zacmumblethunder7466 not that I know of. I believe that's a key part of Christianity.
@joe1205 Not in the Church of England!
@@zacmumblethunder7466 wdym? You can't be a Christian without believing in God...
In a way this harkens back to a televised discussion about religion, in which Stephen took part, and a bishop (I believe) said something like, "We (i.e. the church) aren't here to tell people how to live," and Stephen cut him off saying, "Then what are you FOR? What are you FOR?"
I remember this exact debate. St. Thomas Moore burned people at the stake for reading "his" Bible... but in a different language
Strange question. Mostly churches claim to be for worshipping God.
@marnanel Most religions don't just involve worship though. They usually offer guidelines on how to live a good life. Like Sikhs are taught to serve the community, Buddhists are told not to kill things, Catholics are required to feel guilty about everything, etc.
@@Benjiesbeenbetter.True. But saying "then what are you for?" means you can't think of anything else they might be for.
Besides, "telling people what to do" is ambiguous between "telling our followers what to do" and "telling everyone what to do", and the meaning of Stephen Fry's reaction depends on which way the bishop meant it (in context).
@@marnaneltrue enough, but consider for instance that the bible talks about the morality of having an abortion, a matter that we understand as political discourse today.
Religion is linked with statecraft, and if you look into the bible and everything it says you'll see that it presents some arguments for what are held as the right ways to behave and the right ways to run a nation.
He sounds almost disappointed the church doesn't stand by its own convictions..😂
Stephan is just bringing up the fact that the church of England is inconsistent with what it openly declares. And it annoys him how they try and pretend they aren't completely changing their policies and doctrines when they obviously do every decade to fit with the changing times. Everyone's entitled to change their opinion, but they shouldn't try to say their opinions haven't changed
Him and me both. You don't have to like us, it's OK, we aren't Stalin.
Though looking at that face fungus he's cultivating he might be turning into Marx.
@@rileydavidson207that’s every religion.
Because its been infiltrated by whacky jews.
He's an atheist.... so I think he is sceptical, critical and disappointed by all those crazy religious cults that create and peddle their divisive, subjugating and nonsensical master and minion BS!
If your church started cause someone wanted to get out of a marriage you tend to get those results
The marriage thing Was important.... but it was more ferocious petulance over South America being "Given" to Spain and Portugal (despite the English being almost as vital for exploration) entirely, that pissed him off and pushed him over that edge to varying degrees of Protestantism.
@@alexthomson3001well that’s a load of Bull. What weird history shows have you been watching
@@MrJimheerenapparently the real ones. Henry never got divorced even once. He got his marriages annulled. The Protestant church already had a following in England. The wife that got Henry to Create the Church of England was Anne Boleyn. She became the second annulment and the first to lose her head. There were no divorces in the royal family until Charles and Diana.
Henry never divorced anybody. He created The Church of England so he could get his marriages annulled. READ THE REAL HISTORY!
@@nancyholcombe8030
Well they couldn't really call it a "divorce" could they? But in every meaning of the word, he divorced them. They were married for some time and even had children, and then he "annulled" both marriages.
And if anyone really thought of it as an annulment they would not have accepted either Mary or Elizabeth as Queens, seeing as they would, ergo, be illegitimate. But they did.
"I change my mind constantly. And I'm always right."
Thats a nice straw man.
@@jamesonrosen1773not really. If you claim “our word is backed by divine law”, where in that statement is there room for the idea that you’re in any way wrong?
@@NeonPixels81 perhaps i am confused as to the point.
My understanding was that it was directed at frys logic. I get the feeling i might be wrong in that assumption.
@@jamesonrosen1773 I guess I misunderstood then also: I thought your comment was saying the church constantly changes their tune then says its "divine revelation", and the other commenter was saying that's a straw man...when in fact that's exactly what happens.
@@NeonPixels81 maybe the OC will enlighten us
General Melchett spitting facts
Edit: I’m so happy to know people still remember that show. It was a masterpiece!!
😊
Buuuuhhh
General what? This is Stephen Fry. He is a TV presenter
@@AceCrickey I guess you are joking...
@@AceCrickey Nooooooo please go watch Blackadder Season 4 I’m begging you 🥲
Fry played the role of a British WW1 General under the command of Sir Douglas Hague in the series.
My grandpa always made me watch the show with him, good times.
“It is better to have an enemy whose convictions you know and will be maintained, than a friend who is only when the weather is fair.”
"...when the weather is fair." Or when they need butts in the pews.
Better to have a predictable enemy than a fickle friend, eh?
With a fickle friend you have to worry about if you will be backstabbed or not, with an enemy you know you are going to be backstabbed, so you are able to prepare for the inevitable backstabbing
Enough said
an anglican priest is unique in christianity of being able to give the answer 'well it depends what you mean' to the question 'is god real'
Probably not. I guess you could find quite a few denominations that hold an idea somewhere along the lines that the physical universe is reality and god exists outside of this physical universe and therefore is not real as it is not in reality, but this is not a statement on existence outside of reality.
Jordan Peterson is an Anglican priest?
@@g33xzi11a yes you definitely can. Not sure if this is a mostly Brit comment section, but my monthly meeting (Hicksite Quaker) allows anyone to come and join us in our worship and we allow all names and ideas of god or the inner light here. I can’t speak for other monthly meetings but a Muslim can be a Quaker just as much as a Christian can who can be just as much as a Quaker as an atheist, in my meeting. There’s also the UU (Unitarian Universalist) church as well.
I mean you literally have to define reality, define god, and then work around that. Is he in the same existence of reality as us? Likely not. For all we know, though, he could BE existence. If real simply means true or existent in some sense, including celestially, then I’d say signs point almost exclusively to yes on this point
@@StAmander Quick legitimate question here: Could an actual polytheist be a Quaker? Can the inner light be made of many different beings? Do the Quakers even have an official stance on this matter?
I could just listen to Stephen Fry for hours! I've loved him since I was very little and every day I love him and more!
Sounds like you were designed to worship - but you are just worshipping the wrong person. Read what Jesus said and did - *now that is worthy of worship*
Have you ever read Matthew, Mark. Luke or John?
Poor you
Prayers 🤌📿
Stephen fry the greatest
isn't he a nonce??
you like them folk, Yeah???
Yes he is
He's a P dough?
@shredder9536 that's a serious claim , do you have evidence?
Jesus Christ the greatest
Fry is such a brilliant man, and a great public speaker. I wish he would live forever.
No thanks
Dream on...what planetary you on?...and such a bore.
As an Anglican I completely agree. It is pathetic.
Wait you think they should have stuck with the burning gay people and slavery good?
Then why not become Catholic?
@@Rolando_Cuevathat’s even worse😂
@@Rolando_Cueva Why subscribe to any religion at all?
Thank Henry 8th as it was he who created the Anglican Church simply because the Pope would grant him an annulment. That's a fact.
Stephen is a national treasure and we are lucky to have him.
You absolutely are and we duly envy you. You might not know, but shows like A Bit of Fry and Laurie, Fry's appearances in Black Adder, his readings of Harry Potter books and, particularly for me---I'm a programmer, his involvement in free software movement overreach the UK immensely. I'm an atheist as well (like majority of people in my country of the Czech Republic) and I have very similar, if not even more critical, attitude towards churches. Especially the Catholic Church; I loved Fry's take on it in the debate of whether it's a positive or negative power in the world. I'm not a member of the LGBTQ+, but I'm a very liberally minded person and I find all major churches to be horrendously wrong in their notion of morality---to the point I doubt they really know what it is.
I am sure Stephen would agree 🤦♀️
Historical Evidence for the Son of God Jesus Christ and his Ressurection:
Flavius Josephus 1st Century Historian - Testified of Jesus Christs Existance and Ressurection
Tacitus, Roman Historian wrote between 115 - 117ad - Testified of Jesus Christ's Existence.
Jewish Biblical Literature, Tanakh Period 70-200ad Sanhedrin 43a - Testified Jesus Christ Existed and Death.
@@ayoolukoga9829 So if I write in my diary tomorrow that I’m positive that I’ve seen a pig fly, will that become “historical evidence” of flying pigs in a couple of thousand years?
Mate, you should stop reading old books from the times when people knew nothing. Try, for a change, a book written by somebody who can actually make things work-like the people who built power plants and rockets that can take you to other planets and develop materials that have the properties they _predicted_ they’ll have… What do we call them? Scientists. BTW, none of them will be impressed by your “historical evidence” and neither am I.
@@ayoolukoga9829an atheist is the worst human so don’t pay any attention to this big fool. He is confused.
I'm an atheist who was raised as an Anglican in rural East Texas. I feel nothing but warm fondness for my religious upbringing. It provided a rational buffer between me and the fanatical fundamentalist crazies all around me when I was a school kid.
That’s quite a morally objective view for an atheist. How does one have a “rational buffer” in a world view that doesn’t believe in any non-subjective rationality?
Unless of course that rationality is built of elevating your subjective opinion to the place of rationality.
@@baumholderh8425 My early Sunday school classes at the little parish of St. William Laud introduced me to Plato and Aristotle, and an introduction to ethics. Typical Episcopal church in the US -- much ceremony and spectacle, little religion.
@@thomasbell7033 I definitely did not mix up the words rationality and morality 🤪. Ignore my comment I miss read your comment and thought you were claiming moral superiority. Gosh I need sleep lol
@@baumholderh8425 As one who is constantly going back and deleting his hasty comments, believe me, it's okay. You did have me Googling "morally objective" to see if there was another meaning I wasn't aware of. Sweet dreams, mate.
You have Anglicans in Texas? I thought everyone in Texas was a member of one of those "Amerochristian" churches (I don't know the denominations, but you know the ones that involve stereotypical right wing politics with religion)
They don't just change their morality, they change their core Christian beliefs to suit the age they live in. By doing that, they are really denying the existance of God.
Rather proving that god is something you can fit into any size or shape that you can imagine, like any edit of fiction
@@Dazzerthegooner666So God is not the same as a collection of middle class English priests with White guilt….
What core beliefs have changed in your understanding?
@@avae5343 “God” is whatever you imagine it to be it seems. Who says God is a right-wing ideologue with an axe to grind against so-called middle class English priests? I don’t remember that being in the Bible 😂
@@TrueEnglishMan01 God is obviously not whatever you want him or her or it to be. For instance you’re not describing God if you claim someone else created him or her or it.
This is why I left the Church of England 40 years ago. The inconsistencies became too much.
Look into Islam my brother. They speak bad about Islam because it is the truth and the world don’t want people to find the truth.
"We don't need a church that moves with the world. We need a Church that moves the world."
G.K. Chesterton.
I thought I was wrong once, but then I realised I was mistaken.
I never really thought a church specifically established by a King that wanted a divorce made sense.
I could listen to Stephen all day, on whatever subject he chose.
Love Stephen Fry - speaks much more sense than most people these days
Coming from a conservative Catholic, this is absolutely right (even for the Catholic Church) Spot on Mr Fry.
I'm Church of England, like most people in my country. However I'm also a fan of Stephen Fry. He's a very highly intelligent bloke.
Nice to see Stephen again
Let’s hope you’ll change your mind and except Brexit is good for the country which our democracy voted for.
Historical Evidence for the Son of God Jesus Christ and his Ressurection:
Flavius Josephus 1st Century Historian - Testified of Jesus Christs Existance and Ressurection
Tacitus, Roman Historian wrote between 115 - 117ad - Testified of Jesus Christ's Existence.
Jewish Biblical Literature, Tanakh Period 70-200ad Sanhedrin 43a - Testified Jesus Christ Existed and Death.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1
@justgoclockwise2499 accept. And what are you talking about?
@@jamesoshea580 obviously you know little of Mr Fry’s opinions.
@@justgoclockwise2499 hence why I asked you muppet. Thanks for explaining... (sarcasm)
It's an absolute morality that's always changing. This sort of thing is why I didn't stay a theist, my brain couldn't handle all the mental gymnastics that's required to believe it.
Exactly - if there's any genuinely benign higher authority worth exhalting anyway, they'd judge us on how well we lived our lives regardless of how strictly we obeyed the theocrats of the time
The only logically consistent and intellectually honest path for any religious people is basically just to either ignore the church as an institution outright. There basically has to be a seperation between the church and religion for anything to make sense, so the obvious question is “why don’t I just skip the middle man (the church)”
@@mikeboyd-og2ut The church is also an institution of corrupt men influenced by petty political interests of the day. It's perfectly reasonable to draw a similar conclusion to people like luther and the puritans
The church may change its worldview, but Jesus Christ stays the same. God wrote the law on our hearts and he will never change. He is the same today, yesterday and forever. Don’t let the church distort your view on God because they don’t actually represent him
@InChristWeTrust999 Jesus drowned all the sinful babies and foetuses, then had a change of heart and sacrificed himself (temporarily) to forgive our sins?
Right.
As a Christian I agree. No church has ever succeeded in following the bible completely
The Bible doesn’t even follow the Bible completely!
@@LeakyTreesThat’s an uneducated comment
The Church of England is the closest to a joke it exists
Fry is historically correct here. He knows his stuff. Kudos. 😊
Historical Evidence for the Son of God Jesus Christ and his Ressurection:
Flavius Josephus 1st Century Historian - Testified of Jesus Christs Existance and Ressurection
Tacitus, Roman Historian wrote between 115 - 117ad - Testified of Jesus Christ's Existence.
Jewish Biblical Literature, Tanakh Period 70-200ad Sanhedrin 43a - Testified Jesus Christ Existed and Death.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1
" They change their morality every decade " . It's called being a hypocrite . They've done what they thought they needed to do in order to survive and they've adapted . Where they previously opposed and hindered , they now fawningly concede . All it's done is highlight their desperation to cling to existence and the Church is dying , nontheless .
They repudiated a stance they used to hold, because they now acknowledge that it's wrong. Why do you think that's hypocritical?
All organisations change their morality. Facts come to light which force them to modify their stances. But underlying ideas such as the golden rule never change. Channel 4 and Stephen Fry are never going to be an objective source of perspective on this matter.
@@rosiefay7283 Its hypocritical because they say the bible is the word of god and God is all knowing, but then they change their views to go against the bible.
You have hit the nail on the head sir.
@@rosiefay7283 So what did they base their previous opinions on ? It would be Scripture . If they now " repudiate " a stance which is based on a Scripture they hold as inviolable and which they still espouse , because that stance is no longer convenient or tenable for them , that is hypocrisy .
It’s not what the Church of England says, it’s what God says. The church may change with the wind, but Jesus is “the same yesterday, today and forever.” (Hebrews 13:8)
Yes, Jesus is exactly as he was when he was created. Those people who wrote the bible were marketing geniuses. Two thousand years later and they have billions of people conned.
Steven Frye always has something informative and interesting to say!
always great to see stephen, wonderful sweet man.
Historical Evidence for the Son of God Jesus Christ and his Ressurection:
Flavius Josephus 1st Century Historian - Testified of Jesus Christs Existance and Ressurection
Tacitus, Roman Historian wrote between 115 - 117ad - Testified of Jesus Christ's Existence.
Jewish Biblical Literature, Tanakh Period 70-200ad Sanhedrin 43a - Testified Jesus Christ Existed and Death.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1
He's also very savoury.
you'd know ;) @@chinkasuyaro8983
You know he's a transphobe, right?
If you pause the video any time Stephen is moving, you'll have to take a moment to realize it's Stephen Fry and not the ghost of Bernard Cribbins...
I thought it was a fat Catweazle
He resembles the late critic, Sheridan Morley.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Bernard was likeable...
Quite eccentric I’d say. He badly needs a haircut.
He’s absolutely right. If you only believe in part of the Bible don’t believe in any of it. If you believe some of it is wrong what’s to say what you think it got right actually is? If you believe in an all powerful all knowing God… do you really think he’s going to change his mind about doctrine because society does?
"thank you for flying Church of England, cake or death?"😅
Never cared to meet any celebrity in my life, but I would love to meet Steven, King Charles should knight him.
He turned it down
@@darrenryder3416Good for him. So would I.
The Queen tried to knight him. He declined.
Dont be pathetic you don't need a knighthood for validation
He should be enabled, get him reviewing and amending laws.
BRILLIANT STEPHEN FRY! You put into words what many ordinary folk wold love to express! Thank you!
The Church has some principles, and if you don't like them, it has some others.
Once a religion gets into this state, where it's permanently on the backfoot, trying to explain how things it says now are still technically the same as the things they said 10-15-20-100 years ago... maybe it's time to give up and go full-time into raffles.
The Church changes as it grows. This is a good thing.
Could listen to Stephen for hours. He is so interesting.......
CofE has been down the shitter since the 50s
and ste has been thru a few shitters literally and apparently
In their denfense that sort of thing was exactly why the church of england exists to begin with.
The world should be run by people with his beliefs .
Mr Fry seems to deny that within the Church of England there are multiple factions and a great diversity of convictions. Conservative-evangelical and Anglo-catholic anglicans are pretty clear and consistent on what they believe, it is only liberals like Welby that cause such confusion
Straight facts from a gay guy ❤
Good joke 😂 but I still think he's a complete idiot and very immoral
This is true with most churches. Once the collection plates start drying up, suddenly it's okay to do something. Clearly, divorce is wrong but most churches have an out for that now.
The typical response to this would be something like “of course absolute morality still exists, but it is in God’s domain, and this we are always going to be getting things wrong because we’re imperfect”. The problem with this is, if there’s some perfect ideal somewhere out there in the ether, but we have no access to it and will never be able to understand it, be affected by it, or even establish that it exists, then why bother thinking about it at all? Better to pursue the best morality we can based on the well being of conscious creatures than to invoke unfalsifiable concepts which are conspicuously constructed such that life would be no different if in fact it doesn’t exist?
Almost like you need God to reveal some moral commands. Now where have I heard that before?...
He’s not wrong 👍
As an Englishman with no goldfish, I approve entirely of that wispy haircut.
I really hope this live for a long long time. We need people like him. Maybe more then ever now. I love just listening to his voice. I never liked Harry Potter books, but I listened them on audio books, just because of him. Stay healthy good sir,and please please please,never change!
Stephen Fry is one of the people I value the most in the world; for the sheer joy he's given people using his marvellous comical talent, for his involvement in the free SW community (like myself), for his narrative brilliance which is able to improve even really good books to begin with, his work on the Pindex channel and, indeed, for his philosophic and philanthropic work, especially connected with exposing the hypocrisy and inherent, systematic flaws of churches and their negative effects on society, namely in developing countries.
He's a massive hypocrite! You *do* know he's a transphobe, right?
The great attraction of the C of E and its colonial derivatives is that you don't have to be a true believer to be a member. There's a good proportion of even the clergy, at all levels, who don't believe in the actual existence of God, nor of the fundamental truth of the Bible and treat both as a kind of spiritual allegory.
“Good proportion”
“Don’t believe in the actual existence”
Citation please!! Look up fallacy of false equivalence. Your equating allegorical and metaphorical, that is literary genre with non belief. This is logically fallacious!!
First and foremost the core of Christianity lies in the idea that the concept “GOD” is intangible, inexplicable and is a mystery and that Christs message of peace and love is purely persuasive and never coercive. It’s an invitation to love not an invitation to judge. Christs message was always a proposal not an unfair and unattainable imposition!!
The fundamental nature of [MIND/CONSCIOUSNESS/THE ACTUAL/THE ONE/MONOTHEISM/GOD] is first and foremost a mystery. This also happens to be the first tenet of the Orthodox Church (Ware 1979, p. 11).
Reference: Ware, K. (1979), The Orthodox Way, (New York: St Vladimir’s Seminary Press)
This is schizo. There is no reason to be clergy in a church if you don't believe there is a supernatural, personal creator God, the God of the bible.
Well said and totally true ❤
Possibly why I have never fully left the Catholic church. I may disagree with a lot of what the Catholic church stands for but at least it stands for something and doesn't care if that something isn't popular.
It's not limited to the church of England. Many churches/religions change their moralities over time, especially if it suits their needs.....and this includes the parishioners. I would go so far as to say that both churches/religions and the parishioners/worshipers utilize morality to basically say: Do what we say, not what we actually do.
Very good point 👉
Stephen Fry has the same mindset as I do. Which is to also say we're both depressed.
But correct, crucially.
Believe and repent. There you will find joy and victory over death.
@@challengablebelieve in which god?
@@emilybarclay8831 the only God. The King of kings, the Son of man.
@@challengable Brahman?
Awesome Guy 👏👏👏
He’s spot on.
Thank God
Morality when it suits them.... zero accountability....
That is not what is happening.
They change their view on things because of pressures from society.
It isn't simply one day they want to be moral and the next they decide it doesn't matter.
'I am an atheist and I happen to love the Church of England'. Shows the deplorable state of the Church of England
Lol what does that even mean 😂, are you pro church, anti church? I can’t even tell.
@@Neb-uj4xt I am for restoring the Church, if possible. Its leaders and members must stand up for what they believe and be firm. Otherwise clowns like him will continue to make fun of it.
Just the one religion now standing firm.
I can listen to Stephen Fry all day long ❤
Ordinary morality is only for ordinary people.
The Chris Chan inspired shirt is not what I expected
The Church of England also loves Stephen Fry, even though they hate his inescapable logic and common sense 😮😂🇬🇧🌈♥️👍
Stephen Fry is my first guest at the one time dinner party !
Wonderful Stephen
Speaks truth!!
looking like an english Zizek here
that's why the CoE is the best. It's the Oliver Wendell Holmes church ("It is the merit of the common law that it decides the case first and determines the principle afterwards.")
Thank you Stephen Fry for your rationality and clarity. Religion is magical thinking made acceptable to many people who can’t think for themselves.
Wow hits the nail on the head
The church needs to believe in God's morality.
The direction of travel is, fortunately, the opposite.
I guess the silver lining is that they do change, unlike other religions that don't 🫠
He is an absolutely smashing bloke!❤❤
He is a hypocrite.
You can’t help but love him 😵😂!!! He speaks the truth every time he opens his well educated mouth .
I still think he’s most interesting person this country has produced !!!
I’d give anything for him and Miriam Margolyes to come for tea 😵😵😂😂👍🏽👍🏽. …. Truth fest over a pot of tea !
He is well-educated and funny but nothing more.
So are you a transphobe or do you just support teanshopbes?
Church morality changes with fashion trends
It's actually a GOOD thing. Imagine how much worse the world would be if they were so set in their ways...
I disagree with Stephen though, I do believe in a pretty much objective morality. Good and bad. It's not just relative. I am not religious at all. But morality is, at the very least, evolved amongst the human race. We evolved this sense of morality because I suppose, by and large, it was beneficial to do so. It's not just a gift from the Bible. In fact it frightens me when Christians ask I can have any sense of morality without the Bible. They have no idea of morality, only rules. I don't think they even truly know what morality is.
The main thing is, there are some acts so evil, I can not even begin to sympathize with the idea that all morality is relative.
@@PiousMoltarIf we ever become culturally homogenous with perfect information transfer then it could be conceivable that morality could be objective at that point.
Before that point I think it'd be impossible to make the case.
@@PiousMoltarit is definitely good. Still doesn't change the fact that the church is pathetic and hypocritical.
Justice for gareth O'Neil
Stephen with a beard looks like some sort of British Santa.
Let's not forget wearing mixed fibres is in the same part of the Law and they have no problem with that today.
that's because mixed fabrics were only permitted for the Levitical priesthood to keep them distinct and separate from the rest of the population. We have no need for a levitical priesthood now because of Christ, so it's irrelevant.
Sub par argument. That was the old covenant and even in the New covenant homosexuality is condemned. What part of it do you not understand?
@@darshanpatel.1782 The part where you decide an iron age book describing the preferences of a god that does not exist is a sufficient pretext for homophobia.
@@RustyWalker that's not a part what I said or even what you said. So, we're changing topics from the start, eh? Choose a topic and stick to it. None, zero of what you said is true except the iron age part which has again, nil effects on if it true or not.
@@darshanpatel.1782 I didn't say it was *you* who said it. However, those who use the Bible to justify homophobia are doing exactly as described. It has no relevance to modern life and its ethical judgements in the modern world are no longer fit for purpose on issues such as this, so why cite what it says or which part of the book its in at all?
What makes you think it has any relevance whether its in the Old or New Testaments?
Citing the bigoted opinions of someone 2000 years ago and citing the bigoted opinions of someone 4000 years ago is different how exactly? They're still bigoted opinions and have no place in modern society.
Not feeling very bright today? Smile and remember . . .
There are grown adults who actually believe that two penguins walked all the way from Antarcitca to the Middle East to get aboard an ark built by a 500 year old man.
Apart from at that time, the land was most likely one mass; penguins possibly didn't even exist at that point, and in any case, if they did, God is in control, so why would they have to walk? And if they did walk, why couldn't they travel that distance? And 'two by two' comes from a nursery rhyme and not the bible and humans lived much much longer at that time. The percentage of brain we use nowadays is extremely low. Since we used to live much longer, we'd have to use more of our brains, so that'd explain why we have so much dormant brain at this point. You've seen the pyramids, haven't you? A practically impossible feat at the time, or so it would seem, and yet there they stand. We lived longer and used much more of our brains.
God. God is God. God is ineffable, that is literally the point. Things that seem impossible to us are not impossible to him.
@@tsundereyoongi3869 You couldn't be more wrong but I won't waste my time correcting your errors because you won't listen.
It's just Unbelievable how the religious act superior to me because they have faith. Faith is NOT a virtue, it's the Glorification of Voluntary Ignorance.
Not all penguins come from Antarctica.
@@aaronpincus6095 I am not superior to you, nor have I acted that way. You're projecting, my friend.
@@aaronpincus6095Faith is the result of becoming the observer. Because reality is just a manifestation. It’s an experience.
C of E is founded on changing the rules as convenience dictates. It's a 500-year-tradition.
Tbf that's basically every religion. Maybe not budhism but that's only example I can think of not doing thaf
Absolute morality doesn't exist. Never had. It depends on time and location.
Policy changes. Doctrine remains the same.
And you are all indoctrinated.
ok but can we all stop for a moment and acknowledge the fact he is absolutely ROCKING the long white hair & beard (aka the Wizard) look?
You go, Stephen Fry.
As a student I noticed that the C of E kept changing its teachings. That was one reason I did not become ordained.
Isn't that what the academy also does? Update its world view based on the world?
I love Stephen Fry such a legend. One of the greatest comedians of all time
Yea the difference between the religions still around vs the ones time has forgotten, is that the ones still around changed to fit whatever time period their in
Well put.
He is totally right!
This is something believers rarely get; that religions either change with the times or face extinction.
That man makes so much sense. He is Jeeves without the hinderance of Bertie Wooster. Such an intellect.
Its almost like the whole of society has changed its morality over the centuries, not just the church
How lovely of Father Christmas to share his view on the matter :D
Steven is correct; The synod follows the mood of the zeitgeist as opposed to a strict set of values as strict values don’t put bums on seats and money on plates.
“Money on plates”
CRINGE atheism in full effect!!
Sorry but the fact is that the high priests of “new atheism” make a six figure sum selling certainty to strictly reductive materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists. That’s beyond ironic and absurd!!
@@georgedoyle2487 my comment wasn’t even about atheism, it was about the capriciousness of organised religion and its response to the vicissitudes of modern worship trends. Before you jump on the old ‘cringe’ bandwagon I suggest you read and fully understand the point which people are making instead of being eager to compose vociferous responses.
@@TheWishp
“it was about the capriciousness of organised religion and its response to the vicissitudes of modern worship trends.”
“Before you jump on the old 'cringe' bandwagon I suggest you read and fully understand”
“Instead of being eager to compose vociferous responses”
SMOKESCREEN!! Look up [Trivial Objections Fallacy]. You could have just simply said “I still hate people who don’t share my materialistic, atheistic, nihilistic fan fiction even when they have the integrity to admit they’re wrong and actually change”. Sorry but facts ignore ideology!!
And the fact is that it’s very ironic and absurd listening to over privileged celebrity atheists using the sophistry that they learned at Cambridge to stereotype less privileged people as “CAPRICIOUS” just because they get a little bit of hope and joy from the possibility of an ultimate force for good in the universe!!
It’s very ironic and absurd listening to a celebrity atheist who actually makes a six figure sum selling certainty to strictly reductive materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists whining about other people being inconsistent. Steven Fry constantly whines about Christians being inconsistent from the comfort of his 2.5 million Hampstead home and net worth of £40 million pounds right?
Which makes your “BUMS ON SEATS AND MONEY ON PLATES” quip hilarious and comedy gold if it wasn’t so absurd and spiteful!! You and Steven Fry “doth protest too much, methinks”.
The fact is that it has everything to do with materialism and celebrity atheism. Steven Fry is actually an outspoken celebrity atheist and an empiricist who constantly complains about dogma when the fact is that scientism and materialism of the gaps is itself a dogma and is the greatest secular fairytale ever told.
Look up Humes guillotine and the famous essay by W. Quine [The Two Dogmas of Empiricism!! Have you even read Nietzsche, Wittgenstein or Camus? You seriously haven’t done your homework buddy!! Nietzsche would turn in his grave in scorn at celebrity atheism.
Sorry but the fact is that when you lie, stereotype, straw man and malign Christ and freedom of religious expression you are not raging against the MACHINE, you’re raging FOR THE MACHINE.
Furthermore, demonising monotheists, that is demonising your political opponents by pretending that they are all a “MASSIVE PROBLEM” and that they are all greedy, “CAPRICIOUS” and dangerous is an ancient propaganda tool that’s been used by everyone from Communist dictators, to serial killers to the Nazis, to the Soviet Unions anti religious hate propaganda machine.
“Death is the solution to all problems, no man no problem.” - (Joseph Stalin).
“HAIL SCIENCE”
@@TheWishp
“it was about the capriciousness of organised religion and its response to the vicissitudes of modern worship trends.”
“Before you jump on the old 'cringe' bandwagon I suggest you read and fully understand”
“Instead of being eager to compose vociferous responses”
SMOKESCREEN!! Look up [Trivial Objections Fallacy]. You could have just simply said “I still hate people who don’t share my materialistic, atheistic, nihilistic fan fiction even when they have the integrity to admit they’re wrong and actually change”. Sorry but facts ignore ideology!!
And the fact is that it’s very ironic and absurd listening to over privileged celebrity atheists using the sophistry that they learned at Cambridge to stereotype less privileged people as “CAPRICIOUS” just because they get a little bit of hope and joy from the possibility of an ultimate force for good in the universe.
It’s very ironic and absurd listening to a celebrity atheist who actually makes a six figure sum selling certainty to strictly reductive materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists whining about other people being inconsistent. Steven Fry constantly whines about Christians being inconsistent from the comfort of his 2.5 million Hampstead home and net worth of £40 million right?
Which makes your “BUMS ON SEATS AND MONEY ON PLATES” quip hilarious and comedy gold if it wasn’t so absurd and spiteful!! You and Steven Fry “doth protest too much, methinks”.
The fact is that it has everything to do with materialism and celebrity atheism. Steven Fry is actually an outspoken celebrity atheist and an empiricist who constantly complains about dogma when the fact is that scientism and materialism of the gaps is itself a dogma and is the greatest secular fairytale ever told.
Look up Humes guillotine and the famous essay by W. Quine [The Two Dogmas of Empiricism!! Have you even read Nietzsche, Wittgenstein or Camus? You seriously haven’t done your homework buddy!! Nietzsche would turn in his grave in scorn at celebrity atheism.
Sorry but the fact is that when you lie, stereotype, straw man and malign Christ and freedom of religious expression you are not raging against the MACHINE, you’re raging FOR THE MACHINE.
Furthermore, demonising monotheists, that is demonising your political opponents by pretending that they are all a “MASSIVE PROBLEM” and that they are all greedy, “CAPRICIOUS” and dangerous is an ancient propaganda tool that’s been used by everyone from Communist dictators, to serial killers to the Nazis, to the Soviet Unions anti religious hate propaganda machine.
“Death is the solution to all problems, no man no problem.” - (Joseph Stalin).
“HAIL SCIENCE”
@@TheWishp
“it was about the capriciousness of organised religion and its response to the vicissitudes of modern worship trends.”
“Before you jump on the old 'cringe' bandwagon I suggest you read and fully understand”
“Instead of being eager to compose vociferous responses”
SMOKESCREEN!! Look up [Trivial Objections Fallacy]. You could have just simply said “I still hate people who don’t share my materialistic, atheistic, nihilistic fan fiction even when they have the integrity to admit they’re wrong and actually change”. Sorry but facts ignore ideology!!
And the fact is that it’s very ironic and absurd listening to over privileged celebrity atheists using the sophistry that they learned at Cambridge to stereotype less privileged people as “CAPRICIOUS” just because they get a little bit of hope and joy from the possibility of an ultimate force for good in the universe.
It’s very ironic and absurd listening to a celebrity atheist who actually makes a six figure sum selling certainty to strictly reductive materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists whining about other people being inconsistent. Steven Fry constantly whines about Christians being inconsistent from the comfort of his 2.5 million Hampstead home and net worth of £40 million right?
Which makes your “BUMS ON SEATS AND MONEY ON PLATES” quip hilarious and comedy gold if it wasn’t so absurd and spiteful!! You and Steven Fry “doth protest too much, methinks”.
The fact is that it has everything to do with materialism and celebrity atheism. Steven Fry is actually an outspoken celebrity atheist and an empiricist who constantly complains about dogma when the fact is that scientism and materialism of the gaps is itself a dogma and is the greatest secular fairytale ever told.
Look up Humes guillotine and the famous essay by W. Quine [The Two Dogmas of Empiricism!! Have you even read Nietzsche, Wittgenstein or Camus? You seriously haven’t done your homework buddy!! Nietzsche would turn in his grave in scorn at celebrity atheism.
Sorry but the fact is that when you lie, stereotype, straw man and malign Christ and freedom of religious expression you are not raging against the MACHINE, you’re raging FOR THE MACHINE.
Furthermore, demonising monotheists, that is demonising your political opponents by pretending that they are all a “MASSIVE PROBLEM” and that they are all greedy, “CAPRICIOUS” and dangerous is an ancient propaganda tool that’s been used by everyone from Communist dictators, to serial killers to the Nazis, to the Soviet Unions anti religious hate propaganda machine.
“Death is the solution to all problems, no man no problem.” - (Joseph Stalin).
“HAIL SCIENCE”
Not going to lie. If there was an atheism candidate for Father Christmas, Fry would be at the top of the list.
Maybe if the church actually stood for the bible they profess to believe then there’d be a lot less confusion.
Top bloke this fella!!!!