Similar tier bike is now more than triple the price - close to quadruple. In 7 years. Lots of people make excuses for the pricing in the bike industry, talking about how much inflation there's been and how R&D costs so much (it doesn't - it's marketing that costs a lot), but the truth is it's been a huge cash grab and successful collective effort to turn cycling into a mirror image of luxury clothing and handbags - stupidly priced status symbols. Though to be fair, QC is generally a lot better for clothing and handbags.
100% this! I feel sorry for folk getting into cycling now, they won't get value for money at all & will be royally ripped off. So much for getting everybody into cycling, it seems the cycling industry only have eyes for the rich elite.
And when has enthusiast cycling NOT been a luxury sport? You have decathlon if it’s budget bicycles you need, no? Or is decathlon too peasant for you to make your way to the podium on? Ppl like you make me laugh; you want luxury goods but don’t want to pay the price for it. Maybe that’s why cycling was in decline till covid; too many penny pinchers till the wave of covid cyclists and their wallets came to bring some life back to the scene.
I don't entirely agree, as you can still get good light 10 speed rim wheel bikes for not that much money, but now you will think of it as a budget bike while 7 years ago you taught about it as premium. bike industry succeeded in getting us to be more elitist and spend more money.
I race bikes professionally 2008-2013 and have rented bikes professionally since 2014. And I've been saying exactly this.Shimano 6800 was peak value, bikes were light and stiff, brakes were fantastic and a race worthy bike could be had for 2k. Now days they're just producing future e-waste and adding complexity and cost for no tangible benefit.
In all my decades of riding (and running a rental fleet) I vote for Campagnolo Mirage 9 as "peak value". I'm still riding one of my ex-rentals (now shod with Vittoria Pave 27 mm tires) with the ORIGINAL cables along with everything else except chain/cassette. Not light, not pretty but it just f__King works...and keeps on working. I robbed a couple of these groupsets from the rental fleet bikes not in my size before selling 'em off. IMHO the only way it could be better was to be polished alloy instead of boring black. In that category Centaur 11 is pretty damn good as well.
I’ve been saying this for the past couple of years. Road bikes literally peaked between 2016-2018. The only thing I would like to see is a Dura-Ace level mechanical 12 speed rim brake groupset.
I never owned this generation TCR. But my 2018 Superix Evo (non Hi-mod) with rim brakes, Mavic alloy wheels, Ultegra/RED components was probably the best road bike I've ever ridden, also stunning to look at. Fond memories of hammering up and down Mt.Tamalpais in the bay area,.good ole days.
That was the bike I thought this video would be on! The Supersix Evo Hi-mod frameset from those years of production are the ones I constantly see being featured in hill-climb bikes and what I presume is for a good reason. But this one is close enough and his personal bike so good enough I guess.
I regretted selling my previous gen TCR Adv SL rim for the current gen TCR Adv SL Disc. The previous one was stiffer, climbs better, lighter and handled better. The current one costs more, is a pain to deal with for the disc brakes and has a longer and mushier front end. The only thing nice about it is i guess is the braking when wet but I normally avoid the rain when I can anyway. My peak bike will be a TCR style lightweight bike with direct mount rim brakes, previous gen Di2, a 27.2 seatpost, non-integrated handlebars and a pair carbon wheels with GP5ks.
I will forever be annoyed that I didn't get a rim brake carbon bike with aluminum rims and Di2. Those things are bomb for peace of mind. Order of magnitude less of a maintenance PITA than mechanical disc.
Rim brakes is the best for the road bicycle. Easy to maintain, light, doesn't cost much, efficent, brake modulation is very good etc. Rim brake bicycles from 2010-2018 is the peak.
Bikes from 2015-2019 were peak consumer bikes. High performance, relatively low/competitive pricing. Ability to easily adjust position, change components, also a massive aftermarket market, plus parts are easily interchangible between different bikes too
Yeah I'm glad I bought the 2018 version of the specialized allez sprint comp. Shimano 105 mechanical, rim brakes, nice frame, aero carbon seatpost and forks. I paid $1800 for it. The price jumped to $3000 in 2020 for the same thing. Edit: and for an aluminum aero bike it honestly is pretty light. I think I'm at around 8.3kg and all I did was put some cheap clip pedals on and change the handlebar to an aluminum aero bar. Once I get some carbon aero wheels it'll go down to 8kg while also being significantly more aero.
First road bike I bought was the 2017 version of this, TCR Advanced Pro 1 with Ultegra. I’ve put over 30k miles on it since and every year I flirt with buying a slick new aero bike for $8k plus and then think… why? This is all the bike I need - and a blast to ride
Lovely bike. Still sad that my road bike from that era got nicked. The value for money was top notch back then and the bikes were fun to ride and easily maintained, and you could swap parts out between them without too much worries about compatibility issues. Aero might be faster, but light is more pleasant and fun to ride.
Peak for me is Direct Mount rim brakes, If not as good as disc in power and modulation close to it. Also that was the season the team I am part of won almost every race we started in, but with the riders from the 4 kilometer national team and Jonas Vingegaard, it makes sense, right?
Still riding my 2015 TCR advanced 1 & 2017 Tarmac SL4, both rim brake ultegra 6800 & both well under £2k new, easy to maintain & upgrade, both have kept me rolling for thousands of miles in all weather - Great bikes! (I've also dabbled in the dark art of home made vinyl decal cover ups 😄) The pricing & spec on new bikes today is a joke.
Older generations of Ultegra felt ahead of their time and still stand up today. My 6800 Ultegra definitely feels just as good if not better than the latest mechanicals on offer.
Agree. Last year I bought a 2016 Focus Izalco Max frame and built my first bike, which became my second road bike overall. I like the lightness and simple geometry and great handling. I don't care about discs but like that I could use the Di2 in the built. Such a great bike!
This same bike was my first “Real” bike, and ever since I’ve had a bunch of all out top end stuff, and none of them have been substantially better beyond conveniences. I like disc brakes, but rim brakes are fine. I like DI2, but mechanical is fine. I like aero frames, but “race” frames are fine. Everything about it for the price, was 95% of the performance of everything else I’ve had since. For reference since this bike I’ve had; Bianchi Oltre XR4 Cervelo S5 Disc Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL6 (Disc) and now a custom geometry carbon bike. Anything beyond that giant is just nerd jewelry.
Nice bike. I stopped seaking out frames after finding my 2016 caad8. It's just absolutely perfect. I don't want disc. I don't want carbon. I don't want electronic shifting. Give me rim brakes. Mechanical group and a threaded bb all day every day.
The last rim brake bikes with dual pivot brakes is when bikes peaked. These dual pivot brake frames can easily take 29mm tires and some can even take 30mm. And the frames were super light and so cheap. Peak bike.
Yes, they retailed for $3800 AUD, as fast as any other bike out there and actually affordable for many people. A modern equivalent is twice as much, but no better
That’s a fantastic bike. I’ve been riding my older rim brake bike lately and I love the sounds and feel of it. It’s built with a super stiff White Industries square taper bb. I’m really in love all over again. ❤💋
Owned 3 tcr of this generation, absolute missile of a bike. Now on a top end discc model of a major brand, and its nothing like these old 2017 2018 bike.
Your channel and particularly this video really highlights the things I have come to value: Value for money, light weight and simplicity (ease of home maintenance; mechanical & rim brake groupset). Understanding that this is an ever changing landscape, it would be great if you could offer the occasional snapshot of a `recommended recipe' for someone who wanted to build up this sort of bike. Leveraging your expertise and insight into the marketplace would help those of us who like to indulge in n+1 at a more attainable budget. i.e If I have $1,500 I would do this... If I have 3k I would do this... etc. Really enjoying your no BS approach and not dumbing it down for the `lowest common denominator' that seems pervasive throughout the internet.
I agree, this is peak road bike. I live in Switzerland and my bike of choice when riding in the mountains is my 2012 BMC SLR01. It has first gen 10 speed Sram red mechanical with light DT swiss wheels. Very light, It climbs and descends beautifully in the Alps. I have no desire to change it.
Totally agree I purchased 2 2019 tcrs pro1s and sold the disc model. Still on rim brakes to this day. I service bicycles so I see a lot of bikes and I'm yet to find a replacement. Mine is fully custom now but owes me under 5k in full DA with a fat creations custom paint job and 2 wheelsets campy boras and shamals at 6.7kg with pedals. Fact is, if it had pizza cutters attached to it would owe me around 8k and likely be over 7kg 😅😂😂
Everybody is giving the "wet alpine descents" scenario when talking about rim brakes, but quite honestly, how often do your really have that, and is it always that bad, at least with alloy rims? Even if you are going for a multi-day trip and hit several passes, what are the chances that it is bad weather every day? Especially with modern alloy rims, braking is far from being sketchy. I recently enjoyed a soaking wet 10-15km alpine descent with approximately 5 degrees and it was absolutely fine. No noise, predictible braking and with some mid-season gloves on, my hands weren't even getting tired... late 2010s carbon/rim brake bikes were the last opportunity to ride light AND cheap bikes.
I actually find my carbon rim brakes slightly better in the wet than the aluminum rims I used to have. Maybe it's due to their particular grooves on the brake track, I don't know.
@@rytiscyclingmediasolutions There are better and worse rims on every kind of material. I had real sketchy moments with the original rims and pads on my bike, since swapping to quality alloy rims and just using standard Shimano pads, it is a lot better. Doesn't mean that disc isn't better in that regard but you can definitely have all-weather rim-brake setups that give you confidence in your riding, unless you are Tom Pidcock, perhaps...
This is off topic, but I was curious if you had an opinion on the delta steerer tube in the new Supersix? If you haven't seen it yet, Cannondale have basically opted for a triangular steerer to help with cable management and to reduce frontal area. Do you reckon this is a good idea from a structural standpoint?
Looks great! I reckon i did a smart move in august 2022, when i bought one of the last badge - rim brake bikes from Canyon, an Ultimate CF SL. Now they only offer rim on the cheapest alu model. Mine has full Ultegra 8000 group, Canyon H36 carbon aero cockpit (swapped for a round alu bar) and Dt Swiss P1800 wheels. Size XL frame, 7.23 kg out of the box and it cost me £2112. Bought a set of Winspace Hyper 2023 r33 ($1170), put on some Pirelli P Zero race 26 mm tires, Pirelli Tpu tubes and now the bike weighs 6.75 kg. What i like about Canyon is they stick to pressfit, seat tube angle is close to 74 degrees and it has decent stack without the head tube being too long. Will never sell it😁
I am a big fan of these tyres as well! My first 320tpi tyres, felt like stepping into luxury territory. I immediately mounted them with latex tubes, they felt soooo supple, such a delight in corners and in braking. They were not much puncture proof. The corsa are a nice improvement in that regard, while feeling faster.
Love it! ❤ Pure peak performance without marketing gimmicks. TBH, my r4000si from 2001 with modern 105 r7000 and 28c GP4000 is still my favorite bike. That bike still has the Ksyrium SSC SL rims that are 22 years old but still true and stiff. My riding is mostly flat and I barely have to use the brakes.
I'm still riding my r2000si from 2001, with a few component changes. Still a blast to ride if it's well maintained, and maintenance is easier than any other bike I own.
I have a Tarmac SL7 and it’s brilliant but for overseas trips to the Alps, Mallorca etc I opt for my trusty Argon18 Gallium. Ultegra 6800 rim brakes and chainset, Ultegra R8000 med cage rear derailleur. A total Frankenbike but it is very light and perfect for the mountains. The other advantage is that I don’t stress quite as much as my friends about the risk of my bike getting thrown about by the baggage handlers!
Yep. There's been amazing bikes made since about year 2000 or perhaps 1995. The improvement from 1980 to 2000 was a much bigger jump than from 2000 to 2020
I had a c.2007 TCR that I managed to squeeze on 28c tyres. Lovely bike, it was the generation that had an aluminium front triangle and carbon rear. Now I'm building up a 2019 rim brake Orca with R8000 mechanical and deep 65/80 Reynolds Black Label wheels. My estimate is 7.2kgs with pedals.
I picked up a 2018 SL5 Tarmac with r9100 mechanical+rim 4y ago for 2k usd, it’s been absolutely brilliant since. I was running disc brakes before that and still have mechanical and hydro disc bikes but it does seem pretty unnecessary most of the time. Disc is great for a commuter with mudguards etc but adds so much cost and complexity for what you gain for a performance road bike. Technical descents with disc allow me to really cross the threshold into sketchy fast territory should there be any equipment failure. Rim helps keep me a little on the safer side, and in my situation the rim bike is way nicer for going up those hills Idk at the end of the day it’s always n+1 and horses for courses lol
I have this bike as my backup bike, simply great to ride thru the hills. I stuck some Winspace wheels on it and never looked back. I love it's simplicity. I do have a disc brake bike in have to charge 😁 it's fun and fast but annoying to maintain...
Wiggle/CRC still stock Open Pave full black for an unbelievable £20 a tyre. Full retail packaging no OEM but even on wide rims the 27 are more like 25. With latex inners they are are still the best ride quality forbthe money.
Pinarello F10 rim is my ideal bike. Geometry is perfect (for me), threaded BB, 28 mm tire clearance, light, stiff, fast and great looking. Value however, possible to find a great deal second hand😊
Not a carbon bike fan, but this gen of TCR is literally the only carbon bike I would have considered buying. Light, stiff, corners very well and good value for money. And funny how everyone says rim brake rims don’t last and here you have one for 15 years. My oldest set lasted me 10 of all year round riding. Much better value than disc.
I've got a 2013 TCR Adv Pro (Rabobank edition, the blue/orange decal is way out of style, but hey, still a TCR!) that I've gotten second-hand and I absolutely love it. Sure it's not aero, doesn't fit more than 28mm tires and it’s got rim break, but man is it fun to ride an easy-to-maintain bike.
Since selling my 2014 Super Six, I just never quite rode anything that gave me that same thrill. Cervelo, Giant, Specialized. All lifeless, complex and dull. I have fallen in love with my custom Ti. Best fitting bike, can cover most disciplines, tough, rugged and relatively light.
I have this exact frame with Ultegra R7000 and Scope R4C carbon wheels. All at the cost of an entry level road bike today. Still a super fast bike, especially uphill.
I have the 2016 SL 0 and I struggling to see why I would upgrade. I picked up a gravel bike with discs and bolt throughs axels and all the latest stuff and didn't notice any real improvements TBH.
Don't find Vittoria tires especially fragile but don't ride in the UK either. IMHO "Peak Road Bike" was something like BigMig rode when Pegoretti tig-welded his bikes in steel. Campagnolo Record, dual-pivot brakes squeezing aluminum rims. Something similar to what I still enjoy riding today though mine are lugged Columbus steel - so much prettier to look at than tig-welding, even when Pegoretti did it. A whole lot of stuff that came afterwards is as much planned obsolescence and marketing-maven bullspeak (or thought-up by the "product-cheapening department") as anything. You do a good job pointing this out along with Hambini. NO SHILL SITES!
Great bikes - I got my lad a '17/18 model with 105 and its still going strong. I think I paid £1400. You'd need nearly £4k for the (heavier) modern equivalent... madness. Yep, late teens rim brake bikes were peak race bike. Modern aero stuff is better for Fondo racing tho. As for the 15 year old Mavic, I got a few of those too. That'd be why Mavic went bust. Like who even wants a light, reliable wheel that lasts forever?
In 2019, I bought a supersix evo hi mod, complete dura ace 9100 mechanical except for the blingy si sl cranks and the ultegra cassette, with carbon wheels brand new for 2999€ in a 56. I pity everyone who has to buy a bike these days, especially those new to the sport. I doubt that teenagers and students can still afford it.
My ridley helium rim brake, which i build up with ultegra 6800, is the most convenient bike i own. Never had problems with shifting or rubbing, unlike my gravelbike with discs and shimano grx600. The new shimano groupset are so nasty to maintain and i wasn't able to get the shifting to be perfect.
for me peak road bike is a steel pegoretti responsorium, campy mechanical and rim brake. 7.2kg. rides better that any plasticky feeling carbon bike. descend fast with high quality steel and you will never go back to carbon.
those Ksyriums were just really good esp if the spokes dont go. Still popular on ebay. Think the 27 Open Pave are still made. if you had the Mavics with a yellow or Red spoke it would be a nice match
I had an 2017 SL5 Tarmac with ultegra paid $2000 USD. sold it in 2020 for $3500 after a guy offered me cash on a ride.... I felt like i had to sell it at that price... wish I didn't.. It was light, rode really nice and was easy to maintain.
You can get some inexpensive replacement for the corroded shifter ‘name plates’. Pull the brakes and it exposes two Phillips #1 screws on the inside/outside. Makes them look brand new.
Can't help put point out the non-Ultegra crankset when hearing "full ultegra" 50 times, but that looks like an RS510 crankset. Always been typical that giant always cheaps out on the crankset, they still do it these days too (My Defy came with one too)
The only thing I don't like about my rim brake bikes is poor braking performance in the rain with carbon rims. Yes, alloy rims work, but they are slower. I would probably hate the squealing and rubbing from discs, though :)
Recently get second hand Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 2009, ISP. Dura Ace c24, cheap Tiagra drivetrain. Surprisingly fit 25 mm tires. ISP clamp fits good, but leaves crack on a clearcoat. Frame and wheels combo rides like dream. Big chunky square downtube for Chads. 7.5 kg with heavy drivetrain and a lot of green slime in tubes. Pay 650 bucks for entire build.
2016 a good year for bikes, nothing materially changed except for some component and frame upgrades. An optimistic person my hope that trends in design tends return again to where 2016 left us. Then again maybe not.
Rock a 2013 Madone DI2 with some carbon wheels and some Absolute Black chainrings and Dura Ace direct mount calipers.. probably have $2k in it. Rode it 100 miles yesterday and it just blows me away how great that bike rides. Modern bikes cost more and are heavier by a good margin
Similar tier bike is now more than triple the price - close to quadruple. In 7 years. Lots of people make excuses for the pricing in the bike industry, talking about how much inflation there's been and how R&D costs so much (it doesn't - it's marketing that costs a lot), but the truth is it's been a huge cash grab and successful collective effort to turn cycling into a mirror image of luxury clothing and handbags - stupidly priced status symbols. Though to be fair, QC is generally a lot better for clothing and handbags.
100% this! I feel sorry for folk getting into cycling now, they won't get value for money at all & will be royally ripped off. So much for getting everybody into cycling, it seems the cycling industry only have eyes for the rich elite.
And when has enthusiast cycling NOT been a luxury sport?
You have decathlon if it’s budget bicycles you need, no? Or is decathlon too peasant for you to make your way to the podium on?
Ppl like you make me laugh; you want luxury goods but don’t want to pay the price for it. Maybe that’s why cycling was in decline till covid; too many penny pinchers till the wave of covid cyclists and their wallets came to bring some life back to the scene.
Good point, well made.
I don't entirely agree, as you can still get good light 10 speed rim wheel bikes for not that much money, but now you will think of it as a budget bike while 7 years ago you taught about it as premium. bike industry succeeded in getting us to be more elitist and spend more money.
@@cyclingmilan Please can you name one? This is what I want. The one’s I’ve looked at aren’t suitable
Rim brake bikes from 2010-2016 are delicious and peak road bike for me.
I race bikes professionally 2008-2013 and have rented bikes professionally since 2014. And I've been saying exactly this.Shimano 6800 was peak value, bikes were light and stiff, brakes were fantastic and a race worthy bike could be had for 2k.
Now days they're just producing future e-waste and adding complexity and cost for no tangible benefit.
In all my decades of riding (and running a rental fleet) I vote for Campagnolo Mirage 9 as "peak value". I'm still riding one of my ex-rentals (now shod with Vittoria Pave 27 mm tires) with the ORIGINAL cables along with everything else except chain/cassette. Not light, not pretty but it just f__King works...and keeps on working. I robbed a couple of these groupsets from the rental fleet bikes not in my size before selling 'em off. IMHO the only way it could be better was to be polished alloy instead of boring black. In that category Centaur 11 is pretty damn good as well.
last year vinyl records out-sold cds. hopefully rim brake bikes will experience a comparable revival over disc-brake slugs.
Agreed. The industry's done so little worth talking about since 2017.
I’ve been saying this for the past couple of years.
Road bikes literally peaked between 2016-2018.
The only thing I would like to see is a Dura-Ace level mechanical 12 speed rim brake groupset.
Industry has gone lazy and copies technology from MTB and other modes of transports, with doubtful results for the end customer... big F
The early-mid 2010s is when Road bikes peaked. Nothing can ever change my mind.
Underrated comment
2014-2017 ❤
Nonsens. Completely
Except for the tire clearance limitations, I agree
There’s a word for that kind of mindset
I never owned this generation TCR. But my 2018 Superix Evo (non Hi-mod) with rim brakes, Mavic alloy wheels, Ultegra/RED components was probably the best road bike I've ever ridden, also stunning to look at. Fond memories of hammering up and down Mt.Tamalpais in the bay area,.good ole days.
Solid bike. Mine is still rolling....
That was the bike I thought this video would be on!
The Supersix Evo Hi-mod frameset from those years of production are the ones I constantly see being featured in hill-climb bikes and what I presume is for a good reason.
But this one is close enough and his personal bike so good enough I guess.
I regretted selling my previous gen TCR Adv SL rim for the current gen TCR Adv SL Disc.
The previous one was stiffer, climbs better, lighter and handled better.
The current one costs more, is a pain to deal with for the disc brakes and has a longer and mushier front end. The only thing nice about it is i guess is the braking when wet but I normally avoid the rain when I can anyway.
My peak bike will be a TCR style lightweight bike with direct mount rim brakes, previous gen Di2, a 27.2 seatpost, non-integrated handlebars and a pair carbon wheels with GP5ks.
I will forever be annoyed that I didn't get a rim brake carbon bike with aluminum rims and Di2. Those things are bomb for peace of mind. Order of magnitude less of a maintenance PITA than mechanical disc.
What a great bike!!! Shame the bike industry don't make these simple fast easy to maintain bikes no longer😔
Absolutely true. Can be any brand but when I think "road bike" I always think 2012-2017 and I think Supersix Evo.
Correct!
Exactly my thoughts when I look at my Canyon Ultimate CF SL 7 rim. Can't really improve on that one either in terms of performance vs value.
Rim brakes is the best for the road bicycle. Easy to maintain, light, doesn't cost much, efficent, brake modulation is very good etc. Rim brake bicycles from 2010-2018 is the peak.
Bikes from 2015-2019 were peak consumer bikes. High performance, relatively low/competitive pricing. Ability to easily adjust position, change components, also a massive aftermarket market, plus parts are easily interchangible between different bikes too
Yeah I'm glad I bought the 2018 version of the specialized allez sprint comp. Shimano 105 mechanical, rim brakes, nice frame, aero carbon seatpost and forks. I paid $1800 for it. The price jumped to $3000 in 2020 for the same thing.
Edit: and for an aluminum aero bike it honestly is pretty light. I think I'm at around 8.3kg and all I did was put some cheap clip pedals on and change the handlebar to an aluminum aero bar. Once I get some carbon aero wheels it'll go down to 8kg while also being significantly more aero.
First road bike I bought was the 2017 version of this, TCR Advanced Pro 1 with Ultegra. I’ve put over 30k miles on it since and every year I flirt with buying a slick new aero bike for $8k plus and then think… why? This is all the bike I need - and a blast to ride
2016-2017 was the peak for the bike industry, all now we get is fluff for $$$$, they are looking for idiots.
Everything after this point has been a regression
Lovely bike. Still sad that my road bike from that era got nicked. The value for money was top notch back then and the bikes were fun to ride and easily maintained, and you could swap parts out between them without too much worries about compatibility issues. Aero might be faster, but light is more pleasant and fun to ride.
Noobies should see bikes like this instead of 10k specialized bikes all over youtube to see how you actually get started in the sport.
Peak for me is Direct Mount rim brakes, If not as good as disc in power and modulation close to it. Also that was the season the team I am part of won almost every race we started in, but with the riders from the 4 kilometer national team and Jonas Vingegaard, it makes sense, right?
Still riding my 2015 TCR advanced 1 & 2017 Tarmac SL4, both rim brake ultegra 6800 & both well under £2k new, easy to maintain & upgrade, both have kept me rolling for thousands of miles in all weather - Great bikes! (I've also dabbled in the dark art of home made vinyl decal cover ups 😄) The pricing & spec on new bikes today is a joke.
Bought an excellent ‘17 S-Works Tarmac Dura-Ace, rim brake, Roval wheels, Enve aero bars. It’s a rocket ship.
Can you fit 28mm tires on them if you chose?
a bike with a electronic component is called a motor bike, even if the motors are on the derailleurs
Canondale SuperSix 2013, rim brake still happy with it!
Older generations of Ultegra felt ahead of their time and still stand up today. My 6800 Ultegra definitely feels just as good if not better than the latest mechanicals on offer.
Agree. Last year I bought a 2016 Focus Izalco Max frame and built my first bike, which became my second road bike overall. I like the lightness and simple geometry and great handling. I don't care about discs but like that I could use the Di2 in the built. Such a great bike!
This same bike was my first “Real” bike, and ever since I’ve had a bunch of all out top end stuff, and none of them have been substantially better beyond conveniences.
I like disc brakes, but rim brakes are fine.
I like DI2, but mechanical is fine.
I like aero frames, but “race” frames are fine.
Everything about it for the price, was 95% of the performance of everything else I’ve had since.
For reference since this bike I’ve had;
Bianchi Oltre XR4
Cervelo S5 Disc
Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL6 (Disc)
and now a custom geometry carbon bike.
Anything beyond that giant is just nerd jewelry.
Nice bike.
I stopped seaking out frames after finding my 2016 caad8. It's just absolutely perfect.
I don't want disc. I don't want carbon. I don't want electronic shifting. Give me rim brakes. Mechanical group and a threaded bb all day every day.
Long live mechanical shifting and rim brakes! (and affordable price points).
The last rim brake bikes with dual pivot brakes is when bikes peaked. These dual pivot brake frames can easily take 29mm tires and some can even take 30mm. And the frames were super light and so cheap. Peak bike.
Yes, they retailed for $3800 AUD, as fast as any other bike out there and actually affordable for many people. A modern equivalent is twice as much, but no better
YES. absolute peak. Riding the last gen superesix evo rim brake and pre dropped seat stays, and I can fit 30's on it if needed. Perfection.
I'm still riding my 2015 TCR adv SL white-blue color. Lovin' it. No complain!!
Mines a 2014 specialized roubaix and I agree, also great to see a nice frame shape instead of dropped seats stays...
That’s a fantastic bike. I’ve been riding my older rim brake bike lately and I love the sounds and feel of it. It’s built with a super stiff White Industries square taper bb. I’m really in love all over again. ❤💋
Owned 3 tcr of this generation, absolute missile of a bike. Now on a top end discc model of a major brand, and its nothing like these old 2017 2018 bike.
Your channel and particularly this video really highlights the things I have come to value: Value for money, light weight and simplicity (ease of home maintenance; mechanical & rim brake groupset). Understanding that this is an ever changing landscape, it would be great if you could offer the occasional snapshot of a `recommended recipe' for someone who wanted to build up this sort of bike. Leveraging your expertise and insight into the marketplace would help those of us who like to indulge in n+1 at a more attainable budget. i.e If I have $1,500 I would do this... If I have 3k I would do this... etc.
Really enjoying your no BS approach and not dumbing it down for the `lowest common denominator' that seems pervasive throughout the internet.
I agree, this is peak road bike. I live in Switzerland and my bike of choice when riding in the mountains is my 2012 BMC SLR01. It has first gen 10 speed Sram red mechanical with light DT swiss wheels. Very light, It climbs and descends beautifully in the Alps. I have no desire to change it.
Totally agree I purchased 2 2019 tcrs pro1s and sold the disc model. Still on rim brakes to this day. I service bicycles so I see a lot of bikes and I'm yet to find a replacement.
Mine is fully custom now but owes me under 5k in full DA with a fat creations custom paint job and 2 wheelsets campy boras and shamals at 6.7kg with pedals. Fact is, if it had pizza cutters attached to it would owe me around 8k and likely be over 7kg 😅😂😂
Everybody is giving the "wet alpine descents" scenario when talking about rim brakes, but quite honestly, how often do your really have that, and is it always that bad, at least with alloy rims? Even if you are going for a multi-day trip and hit several passes, what are the chances that it is bad weather every day? Especially with modern alloy rims, braking is far from being sketchy. I recently enjoyed a soaking wet 10-15km alpine descent with approximately 5 degrees and it was absolutely fine. No noise, predictible braking and with some mid-season gloves on, my hands weren't even getting tired... late 2010s carbon/rim brake bikes were the last opportunity to ride light AND cheap bikes.
I actually find my carbon rim brakes slightly better in the wet than the aluminum rims I used to have. Maybe it's due to their particular grooves on the brake track, I don't know.
@@rytiscyclingmediasolutions There are better and worse rims on every kind of material. I had real sketchy moments with the original rims and pads on my bike, since swapping to quality alloy rims and just using standard Shimano pads, it is a lot better. Doesn't mean that disc isn't better in that regard but you can definitely have all-weather rim-brake setups that give you confidence in your riding, unless you are Tom Pidcock, perhaps...
This is off topic, but I was curious if you had an opinion on the delta steerer tube in the new Supersix? If you haven't seen it yet, Cannondale have basically opted for a triangular steerer to help with cable management and to reduce frontal area. Do you reckon this is a good idea from a structural standpoint?
Giant TCR SL rim brakes , best bike I've ever had. awesome ride.
Looks great!
I reckon i did a smart move in august 2022, when i bought one of the last badge - rim brake bikes from Canyon, an Ultimate CF SL.
Now they only offer rim on the cheapest alu model.
Mine has full Ultegra 8000 group, Canyon H36 carbon aero cockpit (swapped for a round alu bar) and Dt Swiss P1800 wheels. Size XL frame, 7.23 kg out of the box and it cost me £2112.
Bought a set of Winspace Hyper 2023 r33 ($1170), put on some Pirelli P Zero race 26 mm tires, Pirelli Tpu tubes and now the bike weighs 6.75 kg.
What i like about Canyon is they stick to pressfit, seat tube angle is close to 74 degrees and it has decent stack without the head tube being too long.
Will never sell it😁
I am a big fan of these tyres as well! My first 320tpi tyres, felt like stepping into luxury territory. I immediately mounted them with latex tubes, they felt soooo supple, such a delight in corners and in braking. They were not much puncture proof. The corsa are a nice improvement in that regard, while feeling faster.
Love it! ❤ Pure peak performance without marketing gimmicks.
TBH, my r4000si from 2001 with modern 105 r7000 and 28c GP4000 is still my favorite bike. That bike still has the Ksyrium SSC SL rims that are 22 years old but still true and stiff.
My riding is mostly flat and I barely have to use the brakes.
I'm still riding my r2000si from 2001, with a few component changes. Still a blast to ride if it's well maintained, and maintenance is easier than any other bike I own.
Sad the R&D died on rim brake bikes when the big push for disc brakes came.
I have a Tarmac SL7 and it’s brilliant but for overseas trips to the Alps, Mallorca etc I opt for my trusty Argon18 Gallium. Ultegra 6800 rim brakes and chainset, Ultegra R8000 med cage rear derailleur. A total Frankenbike but it is very light and perfect for the mountains. The other advantage is that I don’t stress quite as much as my friends about the risk of my bike getting thrown about by the baggage handlers!
I got sucked in by the disk brakes hype. Eventually I saw the error of my ways. Glad I hung on to my 2015 Defy, my first and possibly favorite bike.
Yep. There's been amazing bikes made since about year 2000 or perhaps 1995. The improvement from 1980 to 2000 was a much bigger jump than from 2000 to 2020
I have a Boardman SLR race frame which is a 2012 design and it’s honestly fantastic to ride. Frame and fork was sub 1kg from memory
Totally agree. I also have a 2016TCR Asvanced pro. Kitted out with Ultegra 6800 rim brake. It’s my go to bike. Love it.
Look at those simple, light weight & effective brakes! 🔥
Rim brakes for the win!
Do you still recommend the f1 handlebar?
I had a c.2007 TCR that I managed to squeeze on 28c tyres. Lovely bike, it was the generation that had an aluminium front triangle and carbon rear.
Now I'm building up a 2019 rim brake Orca with R8000 mechanical and deep 65/80 Reynolds Black Label wheels. My estimate is 7.2kgs with pedals.
I picked up a 2018 SL5 Tarmac with r9100 mechanical+rim 4y ago for 2k usd, it’s been absolutely brilliant since.
I was running disc brakes before that and still have mechanical and hydro disc bikes but it does seem pretty unnecessary most of the time.
Disc is great for a commuter with mudguards etc but adds so much cost and complexity for what you gain for a performance road bike. Technical descents with disc allow me to really cross the threshold into sketchy fast territory should there be any equipment failure. Rim helps keep me a little on the safer side, and in my situation the rim bike is way nicer for going up those hills
Idk at the end of the day it’s always n+1 and horses for courses lol
I have this bike as my backup bike, simply great to ride thru the hills. I stuck some Winspace wheels on it and never looked back.
I love it's simplicity. I do have a disc brake bike in have to charge 😁 it's fun and fast but annoying to maintain...
Would love to see your opinion of the Winspace SLC 2.0 after riding that for a few months.
Wiggle/CRC still stock Open Pave full black for an unbelievable £20 a tyre. Full retail packaging no OEM but even on wide rims the 27 are more like 25. With latex inners they are are still the best ride quality forbthe money.
Pinarello F10 rim is my ideal bike. Geometry is perfect (for me), threaded BB, 28 mm tire clearance, light, stiff, fast and great looking. Value however, possible to find a great deal second hand😊
Not a carbon bike fan, but this gen of TCR is literally the only carbon bike I would have considered buying. Light, stiff, corners very well and good value for money. And funny how everyone says rim brake rims don’t last and here you have one for 15 years. My oldest set lasted me 10 of all year round riding. Much better value than disc.
When tiagra to dura ace where at the same range un Quality those 10 speeds era where the Nice times.
I've got a 2013 TCR Adv Pro (Rabobank edition, the blue/orange decal is way out of style, but hey, still a TCR!) that I've gotten second-hand and I absolutely love it. Sure it's not aero, doesn't fit more than 28mm tires and it’s got rim break, but man is it fun to ride an easy-to-maintain bike.
Since selling my 2014 Super Six, I just never quite rode anything that gave me that same thrill. Cervelo, Giant, Specialized. All lifeless, complex and dull. I have fallen in love with my custom Ti. Best fitting bike, can cover most disciplines, tough, rugged and relatively light.
My fav bike is a rim brake Super Six Evo Hi-Mod 2018 version. Got 3 pther disc brake bikes, but none as good as the SS
I have this exact frame with Ultegra R7000 and Scope R4C carbon wheels. All at the cost of an entry level road bike today. Still a super fast bike, especially uphill.
For 1550€, I bought a brand new full carbon endurance bike, 7,2kg, built in 2014. Full sram red. What a deal!
damn
My favorite all time bike was a red 59cm CAAD4 that I built up with Campy Chorus. Was stolen in Sacramento ten years ago. I still miss it!
I was looking for the campag comment. ❤ c-record is the best ever.. 1993 or so, doppler shifters.
I have the 2016 SL 0 and I struggling to see why I would upgrade. I picked up a gravel bike with discs and bolt throughs axels and all the latest stuff and didn't notice any real improvements TBH.
give me an electronic drivetrain and direct-mount rim brakes with wide wheels and light 30mm rubber. top of the breed.
❤ Spot On
Please take the invite and go on the Nero Show :)
I don't think I have been inivted!
@@PeakTorque You were invited in today's podcast! They need your help in clarifying things :)
The bike that feels/rides/fits the best, is the best.
you in hk now? Greetings from HK! Awesome channel!
Don't find Vittoria tires especially fragile but don't ride in the UK either.
IMHO "Peak Road Bike" was something like BigMig rode when Pegoretti tig-welded his bikes in steel. Campagnolo Record, dual-pivot brakes squeezing aluminum rims. Something similar to what I still enjoy riding today though mine are lugged Columbus steel - so much prettier to look at than tig-welding, even when Pegoretti did it.
A whole lot of stuff that came afterwards is as much planned obsolescence and marketing-maven bullspeak (or thought-up by the "product-cheapening department") as anything. You do a good job pointing this out along with Hambini. NO SHILL SITES!
Rim for road, disc for dirt.
Great bikes - I got my lad a '17/18 model with 105 and its still going strong. I think I paid £1400. You'd need nearly £4k for the (heavier) modern equivalent... madness. Yep, late teens rim brake bikes were peak race bike. Modern aero stuff is better for Fondo racing tho. As for the 15 year old Mavic, I got a few of those too. That'd be why Mavic went bust. Like who even wants a light, reliable wheel that lasts forever?
I bought this frameset preowned in black on black about 2 years ago for £400 built it up with R7000 105 and absolutly love the bike!
In 2019, I bought a supersix evo hi mod, complete dura ace 9100 mechanical except for the blingy si sl cranks and the ultegra cassette, with carbon wheels brand new for 2999€ in a 56. I pity everyone who has to buy a bike these days, especially those new to the sport. I doubt that teenagers and students can still afford it.
I’m an engineer in my 30’s and I couldn’t afford a new Dura-Ace road bike in 2023, the industry has lost their minds
off topic - first thoughts on the new Synchros Capital SL wheelset...carbon monocoque???
More bike than most people need
I took out my old Cervelo R3 2014, with Hyper 50mm + red22, incredibly fast. Now I'm very confused with my SWORKS SL7.
Thoughts on Emonda ALR5 2017?
Solid frame, rode one for a bit.
My ridley helium rim brake, which i build up with ultegra 6800, is the most convenient bike i own. Never had problems with shifting or rubbing, unlike my gravelbike with discs and shimano grx600. The new shimano groupset are so nasty to maintain and i wasn't able to get the shifting to be perfect.
Yes I agree this is peak road bike value and performance and now it's going downhill
for me peak road bike is a steel pegoretti responsorium, campy mechanical and rim brake. 7.2kg. rides better that any plasticky feeling carbon bike. descend fast with high quality steel and you will never go back to carbon.
those Ksyriums were just really good esp if the spokes dont go. Still popular on ebay. Think the 27 Open Pave are still made. if you had the Mavics with a yellow or Red spoke it would be a nice match
Peak road bike was late 90s with the introduction of Reynolds 853.
My right ear liked that video
Excellent video, I've just built up a 2015 Focus Izalco frameset with sram force22, ultegra crankset and 60mm carbon wheels...It's an absolute peach!!
I had an 2017 SL5 Tarmac with ultegra paid $2000 USD. sold it in 2020 for $3500 after a guy offered me cash on a ride.... I felt like i had to sell it at that price... wish I didn't.. It was light, rode really nice and was easy to maintain.
You can get some inexpensive replacement for the corroded shifter ‘name plates’. Pull the brakes and it exposes two Phillips #1 screws on the inside/outside. Makes them look brand new.
That's what a bike should look like 👍
Can't help put point out the non-Ultegra crankset when hearing "full ultegra" 50 times, but that looks like an RS510 crankset. Always been typical that giant always cheaps out on the crankset, they still do it these days too (My Defy came with one too)
can't help but point out that he specifically talks about the crankset in the video, if you were paying attention :)
0:55 damn you freaked me out, thought it was my dog screaming from pain or something
I used to run the Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels....they were absolutely bomb-proof....
Absolutely love mine, a proper road bike!
The only thing I don't like about my rim brake bikes is poor braking performance in the rain with carbon rims. Yes, alloy rims work, but they are slower. I would probably hate the squealing and rubbing from discs, though :)
Recently get second hand Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 2009, ISP. Dura Ace c24, cheap Tiagra drivetrain. Surprisingly fit 25 mm tires. ISP clamp fits good, but leaves crack on a clearcoat. Frame and wheels combo rides like dream. Big chunky square downtube for Chads. 7.5 kg with heavy drivetrain and a lot of green slime in tubes. Pay 650 bucks for entire build.
2016 a good year for bikes, nothing materially changed except for some component and frame upgrades. An optimistic person my hope that trends in design tends return again to where 2016 left us. Then again maybe not.
Technically this is the same setup I'm running. The only difference is I built my myself 3 years ago using parts from ali.
Durianrider gonna froth when he sees this.
How's the seat post? The wedge clamp on my TCR damaged two seatposts, €150 each. And yes, I use torque wrench, I believe it wasn't overtightened.
I had same problem too
Rock a 2013 Madone DI2 with some carbon wheels and some Absolute Black chainrings and Dura Ace direct mount calipers.. probably have $2k in it. Rode it 100 miles yesterday and it just blows me away how great that bike rides. Modern bikes cost more and are heavier by a good margin