To think this couldn't have been possible without the work of James Dungeons and Richard Dragons, Arthur and Charlie were big fans of their game and were inspired by it
@@dororo101 gosh the earlier editions was mutch better Adeptus astartes was in rogue trader (and is more or less in latin) for masters of the stars (Adeptus is the masculine form of the latin for achiever/master(y), astartes is the astēr* [star] with the suffex tes [the state of being]) *yes 'a star' comes from 'astēr'
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Really? I thought it was inspired by Astarte, the ancient egyptian (and other nations) goddess of endless war. But I admit, this being GW, that the actual explanation might be that silly
Yogs Live has the bit where Tom comes back and explains why it got him so good. Also, I am forever grateful that this moment spawned the "Lorehammer or Yourhammer" segment of their streams (which get added to the Tom & Ben channel now).
There is actually precedent for something like this happening in real life, for examples PageRanking is not called that because they rank web pages, but because they were invented in part by a guy named Larry Page.
Nobody tell them that the Astartes were actually named after a scientist who worked with the Emperor called Amar Astarte. Edit: since a lot of people are memeing this right now, this is not a joke. This is official lore and it's mentioned in the Belisarius Cawl novel and is a minor part of the Constantin Valdor novel.
@@niks3632 I actually love this and I vehemently disagree that Guy Haley and Chris Wright didn't think about it. I wouldn't even be hugely surprised if someone told me a version of the character of Amar existed long before the Cawl novel in some internal story design documents at GW. "Astartes" literally means "of Astarte" in Latin after all and you can't tell me that nobody at GW knew enough Latin for over two decades to notice they totally butchered "Asterum" (or "Astrorum" if you're felling spicy) in the name of their main product. And yes, it's totally stupid and ridiculous, especially considering what happened to her (like why the fuck would the Emperor name his military after a person who betrayed him?) and also her motivation was kind of nonsensical (the entire coup plot was, honestly). But that ass backwards ridiculousness so perfectly encapsulates the spirit of the Imperium as a faction, it's great. And it's not like it matters or changes anything, it's just a neat fun fact.
@@niks3632 Literally why? Malcador, Dorn, and Russ all have tanks named after them that they didn’t help invent at all. Why is it so insulting to you that other weapons were named after the people who helped create them? Did you prefer “Astartes” to be an absolute nonsense word that the Emperor just pulled out of his ass? Do you think that’s how we name things in the real world? We call it the Hubble telescope, not the Floozisax Telescope.
Not a retcon. Stop using words you don’t understand, please. If you can’t find a quote where they offer a different explanation for the name’s origin, then adding an origin is not a retcon.
@@N0TYALC"retroactive continuity." That means they retroactively decide to say that X was connected to Y, when initially there was just Y. Retcons do not have to involve changing one thing to another, merely adding a thing that was previously unestablished meets the literal definition.
When you read about Land and his character, it makes a lot more sense. Also Land is pretty epic in the siege, .e.g a world eater tries to kill him and screams "blood for the blood god" Land instead shoots him in the face and goes "blood for the machine god"
Hey guys, this has been cannon since White Dwarf 245 in May of 2000. They did a whole article on Land Raiders and Arkhan Land was mentioned for the first time. Still a bit daft though.
man ,if you actually look into this Arkhan Land guy, he's fucking awesome. he discovered countless lost technologies, invented some of his own, was trusted enough by the Emperor to be the one to study the Butcher's Nails, and continues to have a posthumous cult calling themselves Landists or landites who are responsible for many of the innovations to the Land series over the years. the man's a legend, and a genuinely inspiring figure to tech priests everywhere.
@@paulmahoney7619 well he did did recover the long lost STCs for them. they used to be called Land's Raider and Land's Speeder, but over time language tends to simplify a bit. not to mention this exact thing has happened a lot in real life.
@@paulmahoney7619Why exactly? Is it silly because inventors don’t get things named after them? We both know that they do. Is it silly because Land is a silly name? Edwin H. Land was a real-world inventor. He co-founded Polaroid and invented many digital camera improvements. Is this silly?
@@N0TYALCBecause it comes from the perspective of people going into a room and saying “Hey, we should make up this guy called Arkhan Land and have Land Raiders be named after him.” It’s silly.
Funny that that one guy in chat (altho tom and ben deserve at least a bit of credit for having a convo related to it) spawned a meme still used in 40k circles today
Malcador was named after Malcador. The Rogal Dorn was named after Rogal Dorn. The Hubble telescope was named after Hubble. The Maxim Gun was named after Maxim. But god forbid the Land Raider be named after Land.
Land raiders and land speeders had already been in the game for something like 2 years before Arkhan Land was introduced, and the names made sense, which is why it is considered a retcon
Arkhan Land is surprisingly old, but is still technically a retcon, I believe the first reference to him is a year or two after the first models came out
@@harfgarflarf It’s not a retcon, you do not know what the word means. They simply expanded the lore. If this is a retcon, then Darth Vader being Luke’s father was a retcon.
Dumbest retcon? Pretty sure thats been lore for a while. I know this video is 2 years old as I'm posting but i even mean for a while from the context of this conversation as it was happening. Dont get me wrong, i think its a stupid thing too but thats just GW lol
Hey, Land dates back to 1990, just two years after the Land Raider. If the Horus Heresy stuff is guilty of anything there, it's being too faithful to early lore.
Still a retcon because the name was given to the models before the lore was out there. And it's a pretty safe bet they were just trying to think up some cool names for some land vehicles when they first got called it. Even if the dumb joke lore followed only shortly after. An old retcon is still a retcon.
@@EddThe19th That's not what a retcon is. A retcon is when you take already established canon lore and either change it or remove it entirely. Adding backstory to a name or a technology or a person is not a retcon.
A naked man the size of a planet floating in space? Yeah, makes sense. Giant superhuman warriors that can learn memories by eating their opponents? Yeah, makes sense. Some of those superhuman warrior like to paint gaudy patterns on their armor, and go into battle armed with nothing but an electric guitar? Yeah, makes sense. An invention was named after it’s inventor? *REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*
But isn't that a thing that happens now and then? Discoveries being named after its inventor/explorer? I get the joke, but it's hardly fair towards GW and poor Arkhan.
Their point is that they were already called "Land Raiders", and someone came up with a backstory that the inventor was actually called "Land" As if that was a name that didn't make sense and needed explanation!
@@ChrisHaldor I see. Still kinda get why they changed it tho. Like, what kinda name is "Land raider", really? Its kinda silly and doesnt really say much, which isnt necessarily an issue, but Im not surprised some thought it needs bit of a background. Also goes well with Leman Russ, namesake wise. I suppose its question of personal taste
@@schizosamurai8840 I mean, the T-34 just means Tank 1934. lots of military stuff has really basic names. (also yes the T-34 was not produced in 1934, 1934 was the year that conceptualization of the model began, no I don't know why they stuck with that name)
@@draochvar9646 _Meanwhile in the land of the free_ The soldiers were marching behind an M1 tank, while fixing the M1 bayonets on their M1 Garands, or fastening the belts of their M1 helmets and M1 flamethrower canisters.
the problem isn't people naming things after themselves, its when GW claims that something that has a bog-standard name was actually named after its inventor. it would be like if henry ford was named "henry Fordmotor" or if the inventro of the dragunov rifle was named "rifle".
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516 the tank is named land raider. "Land" is not a nomenclature or vehicle type. A M1 Abrams is a type of tank, the US military is not referring to all Main Battle tanks as "abrams". Your point is invalid.
Nobody tell them they’re talking about a game created by Arthur Warhammer and Charlie Fortikaye
Glad they followed in the teachings of the revolutionary designer Terry T. Table-Top
@@fishteapot4130 The basic dice design was by Dee Siks.
To think this couldn't have been possible without the work of James Dungeons and Richard Dragons, Arthur and Charlie were big fans of their game and were inspired by it
@@KyrieFortune don't forget that James and Richard got the idea from Kevin Fantasy.
not to mention james workshop
"the dumbest retcon in 40k"
And then GW proceeded to make Jimmy Space canon
That might actually get me to start giving them money again.
I mean they made a women who worked on the black carapace for the Astartes project and called her Amat Astartes. So pretty close.
@@alexbrown7708 yeah but astartes were always named after a phonecian goddess of war so like, this is kinda fine to me lmao
Given the Land Raider came out in 1988, and then 2 years later they added the lore behind the name in White Dwarf 129, it's not really a retcon.
While you're technically correct, these guys are just having fun, and yours is a silly point to defend.
No-one tell them about the inventor of the Combat Walker, Dr. Ed Naught.
Lol.
Tom: "The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed."
Mr. Thunder always made the BEST hammers
And the best warriors
ah yes, Maxwell Thunder
Alfred Chain and Richard Power makes some good melee weapons aswell
I know it's a year later, but I just wanted to say that I've always been fond of Mr. Grav's hammers, myself. You know? From HALO?
Those hammers were invented by Thunderwarrior.
Thank you. The God Emperor Jimmy protects!
Man Emperor of Mankind Jimmy Space!
yes, Jimmy Marine
I am not the Messiah
The cheaf scientist in making the space marines was called Amar Astarte.
No Im not joking thats actually why they are called Astartes
wait what? but wasnt the cheif scientist the emperor? because he designned and made all the first batch of space marines?
@@wilmagregg3131 there were other people working on the project under him
That is not cannon to me as it is too fucking dumb. I draw the line somewhere.
@@dororo101 gosh the earlier editions was mutch better
Adeptus astartes was in rogue trader (and is more or less in latin) for masters of the stars
(Adeptus is the masculine form of the latin for achiever/master(y), astartes is the astēr* [star] with the suffex tes [the state of being])
*yes 'a star' comes from 'astēr'
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Really? I thought it was inspired by Astarte, the ancient egyptian (and other nations) goddess of endless war. But I admit, this being GW, that the actual explanation might be that silly
Thank you! I wanted to show this clip to some friends only to realize that it went, along with all the other videoes Thatmadcat uploaded.
^Exactly why I made it!
Same, just sent it to him
Yogs Live has the bit where Tom comes back and explains why it got him so good. Also, I am forever grateful that this moment spawned the "Lorehammer or Yourhammer" segment of their streams (which get added to the Tom & Ben channel now).
@@PierceArner Actually, as far as I can recall, Yourhammer or Lorehammer began as a result of John Grammaticus and his time travelling scissors.
Fun fact: The Halos were build by John Halo and the Speeder Bikes are named after Starspeeder Wars, a technician who works for the Republic.
The Bolt gun was made by one, Adreus Bolter.
There is actually precedent for something like this happening in real life, for examples PageRanking is not called that because they rank web pages, but because they were invented in part by a guy named Larry Page.
Lmao life is just as silly as fantasy
@@callumwoolsey4446 discovered famously by Freezon Von Coolage
It's not that naming things after the person who invented/discovered, its more that the retconning is kind of dumb.
Yeah like hookers and sideburns being named after civil war officers
@@CallanElliott Arkand Land has been around since 3rd edition, lorelet.
It's the right of all explorers and scientists to name things after themselves! How dare you insult the memory of Peebee Anjay!
Nobody tell them that the Astartes were actually named after a scientist who worked with the Emperor called Amar Astarte.
Edit: since a lot of people are memeing this right now, this is not a joke. This is official lore and it's mentioned in the Belisarius Cawl novel and is a minor part of the Constantin Valdor novel.
This is part of the "new lore" that i personally refuse to acknowledge. Its stupid stuff that some author came up with without thinking much about it.
@@niks3632 I actually love this and I vehemently disagree that Guy Haley and Chris Wright didn't think about it. I wouldn't even be hugely surprised if someone told me a version of the character of Amar existed long before the Cawl novel in some internal story design documents at GW. "Astartes" literally means "of Astarte" in Latin after all and you can't tell me that nobody at GW knew enough Latin for over two decades to notice they totally butchered "Asterum" (or "Astrorum" if you're felling spicy) in the name of their main product.
And yes, it's totally stupid and ridiculous, especially considering what happened to her (like why the fuck would the Emperor name his military after a person who betrayed him?) and also her motivation was kind of nonsensical (the entire coup plot was, honestly).
But that ass backwards ridiculousness so perfectly encapsulates the spirit of the Imperium as a faction, it's great. And it's not like it matters or changes anything, it's just a neat fun fact.
I know of it and I personally refuse to acknowledge this
@@niks3632 Literally why? Malcador, Dorn, and Russ all have tanks named after them that they didn’t help invent at all. Why is it so insulting to you that other weapons were named after the people who helped create them? Did you prefer “Astartes” to be an absolute nonsense word that the Emperor just pulled out of his ass? Do you think that’s how we name things in the real world? We call it the Hubble telescope, not the Floozisax Telescope.
@@N0TYALC Who are Adeptus Custodes named after?
Always wanted to kitbash up a squad of tech priests, Arkan land, Johnny laz, Nathaniel Stub, Sabastien Bolt,
Don't forget about their pal Terry Titan
@@kenobiwanobi889 you forgot my man Polly Plasma
Is there a guy actually named Stubbs in one of Warhammer games?
@@OneNationUnderPug Vance Stubbs, the leader of Kauravan Imperial Guard regiment
It’s funny bc GW genuinely retconned lore so the head scientist on the space marine project was named Astartes.
Not a retcon. Stop using words you don’t understand, please. If you can’t find a quote where they offer a different explanation for the name’s origin, then adding an origin is not a retcon.
@@N0TYALC I retcon your reply
@@N0TYALC"retroactive continuity." That means they retroactively decide to say that X was connected to Y, when initially there was just Y.
Retcons do not have to involve changing one thing to another, merely adding a thing that was previously unestablished meets the literal definition.
@@Reliken Right, but that's why the term was invented to begin with. Explaining an old term isn't necessarily a retcon.
the funny part is its not even that far off, they ARE named after someone
hm, yes, ms *Astartes*
One of my absolute favourite yogscast clips of all time. Pure gold
When you read about Land and his character, it makes a lot more sense. Also Land is pretty epic in the siege, .e.g a world eater tries to kill him and screams "blood for the blood god" Land instead shoots him in the face and goes "blood for the machine god"
Arkhan Belt: rediscoverer of the Belt buckle
End so the emperor jimmy was entombed on the golden throne
Invented by the Dark Age-scientek, Phoebe Golden
I cant wait for GW reveals that corpse starch was created by Marcus G. Corpse.
Also implying that Arkhan Land invented the Scaper.
I don’t even play Warhammer but I need a Jimmy Space shirt
Hey guys, this has been cannon since White Dwarf 245 in May of 2000. They did a whole article on Land Raiders and Arkhan Land was mentioned for the first time. Still a bit daft though.
It was 100% around before then. At the 40k International Tournament in 1995, one of the quiz questions was on this so Arkham Land was around then.
@@JasonEnos I stand corrected. 👍
@@chrisdabeard8790 white dwarf 129 back in 1990 talks about Arkhan Land, the retcon was only 2 years after the vehicles came out in 88
@@branominal8564Not a retcon. Stop using words you don’t understand.
@@N0TYALC what would you call it?
man ,if you actually look into this Arkhan Land guy, he's fucking awesome. he discovered countless lost technologies, invented some of his own, was trusted enough by the Emperor to be the one to study the Butcher's Nails, and continues to have a posthumous cult calling themselves Landists or landites who are responsible for many of the innovations to the Land series over the years. the man's a legend, and a genuinely inspiring figure to tech priests everywhere.
Still a bit silly for the Land Raider and Land Speeder to be named after him
@@paulmahoney7619 well he did did recover the long lost STCs for them. they used to be called Land's Raider and Land's Speeder, but over time language tends to simplify a bit. not to mention this exact thing has happened a lot in real life.
@@paulmahoney7619Why exactly? Is it silly because inventors don’t get things named after them? We both know that they do. Is it silly because Land is a silly name? Edwin H. Land was a real-world inventor. He co-founded Polaroid and invented many digital camera improvements. Is this silly?
@@N0TYALCBecause it comes from the perspective of people going into a room and saying “Hey, we should make up this guy called Arkhan Land and have Land Raiders be named after him.”
It’s silly.
Funny that that one guy in chat (altho tom and ben deserve at least a bit of credit for having a convo related to it) spawned a meme still used in 40k circles today
Don't freak out when you realize that the Leman Russ battle tank is named after the space wolves primarch..Leman Russ.
Malcador was named after Malcador.
The Rogal Dorn was named after Rogal Dorn.
The Hubble telescope was named after Hubble.
The Maxim Gun was named after Maxim.
But god forbid the Land Raider be named after Land.
One of my favourite moments with Tom and Ben!
The cientist who created the space marines, she was named "amara astartes"
I'm really glad this is around again.
Do you think it'd be possible to rescue the clip of tom and ben discussing "race" in GTA?
czcams.com/video/2u9NcA0bCAY/video.html @8:35
Actually, John Moses Browning invented the Stub guns
that's "James Space" to you, bucko
this needs to be big e's name going forward
Jimmy Space strikes again!
Reminds me of Anathema from Good Omens claiming the same about the naming conventions of most basic devices in the world.
Cyrus T. Doodad, America's foremost black inventor.
The day twitch chat almost killed Tom
I love how jimmy space has become a meme
Honestly I love this, it's so goddamn silly it's a return to form for 40k .
And so a great and terrible meme was born :')
Fuckin Jimmy Space. Best moment in the Yogscast right here.
One small thing I would note is that Arkhan Land isn't a retcon, but dates to when the lore was still 90% jokes and satire.
Land raiders and land speeders had already been in the game for something like 2 years before Arkhan Land was introduced, and the names made sense, which is why it is considered a retcon
Arkhan Land is surprisingly old, but is still technically a retcon, I believe the first reference to him is a year or two after the first models came out
@@harfgarflarf Technically not a retcon if the Land Raider, Land Speeder etc. were not written as referring to the ground anyway.
@@branominal8564 Still not a retcon.
@@harfgarflarf It’s not a retcon, you do not know what the word means. They simply expanded the lore. If this is a retcon, then Darth Vader being Luke’s father was a retcon.
Astartes are actually named after scientist amar astartes
2:36 to see tom fucking die
thank the Emperor for Jebidiah Plasma for inventing the plasma gun
I like how in real life glock is named after gaston glock, so this won't be so far off
And that is how we almost lost Tom ... Again XD
Dumbest retcon? Pretty sure thats been lore for a while. I know this video is 2 years old as I'm posting but i even mean for a while from the context of this conversation as it was happening. Dont get me wrong, i think its a stupid thing too but thats just GW lol
Nobody said anything about Amar Astarte...
Ah yes
Ronald Melta
Daddy spacebucks
Best chat comment ever !
Hey, Land dates back to 1990, just two years after the Land Raider. If the Horus Heresy stuff is guilty of anything there, it's being too faithful to early lore.
That isnt a retcon. It was about in 3rd ed.
The worst retcon in 40k is Erda
A 2020 Classic
What I don't get is why. Like it made complete logical sense to have them be called Land Raiders but no, we gotta have a dumbass reason.
Who in gods emperor holy divinity
Names there child “lands”
land is a family name in real life: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_(surname)
"dumbest retcon in wh40k"......... well that didn't age well.
To be fair to Games Workshop, this isn't a retcon, this has been established lore for a very long time.
Still a retcon because the name was given to the models before the lore was out there. And it's a pretty safe bet they were just trying to think up some cool names for some land vehicles when they first got called it. Even if the dumb joke lore followed only shortly after. An old retcon is still a retcon.
@@EddThe19th That's not what a retcon is. A retcon is when you take already established canon lore and either change it or remove it entirely. Adding backstory to a name or a technology or a person is not a retcon.
@@rosie8059 It had previous lore granted not much but it was very much there then changed to the lands stuff. Stop struggling to be right
@@rosie8059 Retcon does not need to replace established lore. It could also simply change the interpretation and understanding of established lore.
@@EddThe19th Unless it was established that it was called “Land” for another reason its not a retcon
Hello from reddit
reddit moment
yo
A naked man the size of a planet floating in space? Yeah, makes sense.
Giant superhuman warriors that can learn memories by eating their opponents? Yeah, makes sense.
Some of those superhuman warrior like to paint gaudy patterns on their armor, and go into battle armed with nothing but an electric guitar? Yeah, makes sense.
An invention was named after it’s inventor?
*REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*
It's not that it doesn't make sense.
It's just that it's absolutely dumb and pointless retcon
I'm the 2,000th like.
But isn't that a thing that happens now and then?
Discoveries being named after its inventor/explorer?
I get the joke, but it's hardly fair towards GW and poor Arkhan.
Their point is that they were already called "Land Raiders", and someone came up with a backstory that the inventor was actually called "Land"
As if that was a name that didn't make sense and needed explanation!
@@ChrisHaldor I see.
Still kinda get why they changed it tho.
Like, what kinda name is "Land raider", really?
Its kinda silly and doesnt really say much, which isnt necessarily an issue, but Im not surprised some thought it needs bit of a background.
Also goes well with Leman Russ, namesake wise.
I suppose its question of personal taste
@@schizosamurai8840 I mean, the T-34 just means Tank 1934. lots of military stuff has really basic names. (also yes the T-34 was not produced in 1934, 1934 was the year that conceptualization of the model began, no I don't know why they stuck with that name)
@@renedegames7219 but that is very much a Russian thing. Like, most western military-tech producers name EVERYTHING.
@@draochvar9646 _Meanwhile in the land of the free_ The soldiers were marching behind an M1 tank, while fixing the M1 bayonets on their M1 Garands, or fastening the belts of their M1 helmets and M1 flamethrower canisters.
Absolutely beyond stupid take. Ever heard of Ford Motor Company? Kalashnikov Concern? The Dragunov rifle, invented by Yuri Dragunov?
You missed the point.
@@branominal8564 the point is a carpet bagger twitch loser thinks he made qm oh so clever point.
@@megumin1054 you're still missing the point
the problem isn't people naming things after themselves, its when GW claims that something that has a bog-standard name was actually named after its inventor.
it would be like if henry ford was named "henry Fordmotor" or if the inventro of the dragunov rifle was named "rifle".
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516 the tank is named land raider. "Land" is not a nomenclature or vehicle type. A M1 Abrams is a type of tank, the US military is not referring to all Main Battle tanks as "abrams". Your point is invalid.
Why is this considered weird? Automobiles are named after their creator more often than not. Henry Ford, Carl Benz, ...
Mostly cuz “land” is an actual word that would have already made sense
@@louie97ation Land is one of many last names that exist.
@@pauliusthemad3498 I’m sure it is. It’s still silly. If I found out LAVs were named after a guy named Light I’d think that was stupid too.
@@pauliusthemad3498 Ever heard of Bobby Tank?
@@louie97ation Enter the "Sharps Rifle". Not called that because they're meant for sharpshooting... But after Christian Sharps.