What To Do During the Day with Severe Protracted Withdrawal
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
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When I tapered Ativan way to fast ( along with Effexor and Wellbutrin at the same time) 10 years ago. STUPID I know now.
I was bound to my bed over 2 years.
I can relate to most of these symptoms guest mentioned.
Death would have been a relief at the time. I thought sure I was going to die.
I developed MCS, cannot believe I survived it as I look back now.
I have been off Kilonopin for 3 years micro water tapered.
Currently tapering Effexor micro tapering, recently hit a withdrawal period... much harder than I expected. My Psychiatrist is recommending I stay on Effexor or switching to Prozac, I don't want to even consider that. After 42 + years on these poison s I want off!! At 66+ I want to finally know who I am!!
Im tapering off Effexor. 2nd effort. Microdosing psilocybin truffles is helping a lot.
I’m 71 and I’m with you! Stay off if you can!
How do you feel about the person that gave you those drugs that made you suffer so much? I am very interested.
I so understand! On antidepressants for 26 yrs..found this guy and want to know the cost. Effexor is hell to come off.
@@mamas3cubs 🙏 I am 63 and we are the guinea pigs of the Health care system and there's no accountability in Psychiatric Medicine 🤷😩 they put me on cymbalta for 8 years for Migraines and stopped them cold turkey and I almost died!!! I was hospitalized because my liver started to die! The doctors at the hospital couldn't believe he did that and then they tapered me off in 3 months!!. I can't believe we're alive and I'm so afraid to take any type of medicine now
Such an excellent guest. Thank you. Fighting for our lives is so true. Getting through the day minute by minute is excruciating 😢
The guy is not even off the meds!
Why don’t you help me? Please
Thank you for sharing. Gaslighted by docs is such abuse. It is horrible.
I deal with the fear like this: Satan doesn't want to discourage us, he wants to destroy us..and he uses fear to do that...I remind myself of that fact, and that Jesus will pick me up and carry me when I can't walk and that Satan can't touch me. This keeps me from giving way to fear. My daily progress record keeps me grounded and rooted in reality b/c I can see that I am in fact making progress. Humor helps too...The Bible says 'a merry heart doeth good like a medicine"...finding things to laugh at (youtube cat and dog videos) is a good stress reducer. Focusing on the hard times friends or family are going through takes my mind off of my problems which is helpful too.
I went through a similar experience after a paradoxical reaction to benzos… I was completely gaslit by medical professionals and told it was all in my head. I just remember thinking I need relief from the suffering…. Used to go on 30 kilometre walks each day to deal with the akathisia Hey, at least I got fit lol….
How long did it take you to heal?
The descriptions of the severity and length of the withdrawal syndrome, isn't well understood, but very real.I personally am very grateful to see that the good Dr is getting the information out for the medical field to witness. What is the data regarding suicide, how many at the time of the action were on benzodiazapine or antidepressants or were they in withdrawal? Another issue I have witnessed, the intentional withholding of prescribed medication, while incarcerated.
I have had to kill over 3 years pacing. I have dealt with inner akathisia, dystonia and other injuries for even longer. I have had my partner, who also has chronic akathisia, on video chat nearly 20hrs/day for the last 2 years. You literally need someone who understands this in your face telling you it’s possible to live like this. Normal people encouraging you will just piss you off. Try doing everything while being tasered by 5 guys or 10 kids pulling on you. That is what it’s like to read or make a list or do anything in chronic akathisia. Waking to this nightmare every day and being assaulted the minute you open your eyes takes everything you’ve got. Imagine doing that for years. That is what we do.
One of my symptoms was the whole world seemed like I was underwater. You ever put your head completely underwater at a beach or pool and look up at the world. That's it. Was insane.
can relate to this. It feels like some sort of limbo/afterlife/personal hell to me. Everything looks rather similar, yet it isn't. And you can't get out of it.
It is called derealization... and is a common symptom of benzo injury
I dont know what is it ,but i know its HELL !
@@Q1776Q yes I've realized that. The major clue was my feet appeared smaller than before, but my shoes still fit. They still feel smaller, but I guess it is due to the neurological damage that results in impaired neurological feedback. For me it was ritalin. Seem to have some similarities with Benzo though, at least coming off in a way. I've been very agitated for a long time.
@@TheDavveponken It will fade away as you brain and body recover
Distractions that help me: being outside in my hammock, binge watching funny/non-serious tv shows and movies, crossword puzzles, crocheting, dancing and listening to good music, small walks/hikes, baths baths and more baths :)
I am going thru the same thing of how to get thru the day. I have many symptoms. I don't dress, I like to stay in bed and try to make myself sleep as long as possible. I used to shower every day and now it is maybe once every 5 days and dread doing it.
Just thank GOD that you are able to sleep...
Bless your heart! Try to eat whole foods only. Hungry or not. Build up magnesium glycinate or magnesium L-Throarate into your system. Build up all the B vitamins too.
Magnesium is not good for u in Benzo with drawl it will increase symptoms of withdrawal
Oddly enough... One doctor told me " the only reason you are having all these symptoms is because you read them on benzo buddies"
People are fraught with symptoms for so long that they eventually turn to the internet. Hence, Benzo Buddies.
That's HORRIBLE! 😮
I believe everyone’s symptoms are 1000% real, 10,0000%, but there is some benefit to getting off the sites if they are freaking out. Even Chris Paige says that. Your doctor needs to take a look. Scared the shit out of WittD.
@@TE-7302- I agree.... But when I tried to show my doctor the people on benzo buddies..he told me point blank... "THEY ARE ALL LYING and looking for attention"...he sent on to say.."are you going to believe a bunch of 'buddies' over a doctor"...it was just IMPOSSIBLE to get ANYONE to believe me.
The doctor has a good point. When I was tapering I found I was much worse for days after scrolling through the forums. I’m not easily swayed but when you’re in a horribly vulnerable state it’s easy to pick up on others’ symptoms. My advice is stay away from the forums. BenzoBuddies is the absolute worst site in my opinion. So much crazy drama on that site. I personally feel this is where all the bored crazies go to entertain themselves and see who can outdo each other symptom wise.
I recommend Buddhist Dharma talks, my favorite was Tara Brach, she's on CZcams and other podcasts. I did that while playing endless games of Freecell. Dropping down into child's pose and focusing hard on the breath can help survive a moment. That position is also good for wailing. Put the consciousness in the legs and feet to observe the insane mind. With rage, punch the bed or pillows and go outside to your vehicle, windows up and scream and swear. Benzobuddies has a chatroom now that might help get thru a moment. Fight for your life. Don't let Big Pharma win. Stay strong and keep going.
Staring at the wall has become a hobby of mine lmfaooo
I started writing on my wall.
That was the only thing i could do for some time while on benzo acute WD.
Laughing is a distant memory when, like All of Us, you have SERIOUS BRAIN DAMAGE..
@@incognito595don’t we all
@@incognito595good that you edited it now it makes more sense
Thank you. Confirming a lot for me and can relate to all of it. I’m still in the middle of it all.
This channel has saved my life. I've been fighting to survive since 2014 and now I know what caused my collapse. I thought it was from TMS but I have all of these side effects.I only took clonazepam for 6 months while grieving a traumatic wreck and death and I thought it was from too much tragedy in my life making my PTSD worse. I thought if I strung enough days together also. I lost everything including my family. I'm 63 and grooming dogs helped save me.
I can tell you guys one thing. Start Calling it what it really is. BRAIN DAMAGE. NOT " PROTRACTED WITHDRAWAL.."
Can you understand what you saying, pretty much you sentence people for the rest of their life, its like saying to anyone its permanent brain damage you done. Better think twice before you talk, there are testimonies of 100% window during those withdrawals by using different things, if any of us had at least a window that means its not brain damage, its unbalanced gaba system and others.
You're right it is brain damage. Brain damage is not always forever. My son in law got thrown out of a vehicle and had brain injury so severe he had to relearn how to walk and how to feed himself. Today you'd never know it by looking at him he made a full recovery. But it was possible that he wouldn't have. Same way with this situation.
It's always a pleasure to hear from you, Chris.
Thank you.
During my deepest depression it was my community of friends that help the most over any antidepressants
I needed to hear this today! Thank you
Dr. Thanks for having this man on. I had no idea about this prostatitis symptom being so common with benzo withdrawal. I have been terrified I had cancer!
Dude (Dr. Josef), you're doing such an amazing job for those of us who don't have anyone to turn to. I have experienced so many symptoms that this man has. So I also thank him and your other guests for their bravery. You are all legends
Brilliant talk again . Chris is a great guest
Distraction helps, i colored in coloring books and didiconnect the dots books... for hours and hours ...day after day...and then online games on my tablet...like solitare and chess... and other things like that
Game mostly word
Coloring! I’m thinking about trying to get off of Pristiq again after a failed first attempt (doc was weaning me off too fast, among other things), and I think coloring could be an amazing distraction for me. Thank you!
Great topic. Thank you.
This was so very helpful, thank you.
Cant remember when I wasnt sick. Dr just loved changing antidepressant to the “new improved” version. Stop this one. Take this one. Add a benzo, which works for GAD, for years, no problem….still on / off antidepressants…what a merry go round. Then disaster strikes as benzo stops working, bit by bit dr. treats you for older age problems, memory loss, agitation, agoriphobia, panic and fear….and at 72 I (not dr.) realize its the benzo and I have to taper off and Hell begins. I see no end. And no I dont trust the doctor. I want off all pills (still on one antidepressant). Tapering is hell, I am alone and if I miss file my pills I’m in for deeper hell. Just have to move forward thru the hell and hope time passes. Thanks for the knowledge these sites provide, knowing youre not crazy helps with getting to next day.
This is brilliant
Please help me Dr Josef
Pacing all day with a catheter is true dantes inferno hell, can't believe this guy made it
I find it hard to relate to a lot of poeple in withdrawal because their symptoms are very different than mine. Mine are insomnia , panic, fear, depersonalizarltion, tinnitus , watery burning eyes. Just to name a few. And everyday felt different.
Those are very common symptoms. Just about everyone has them.
I get 5 out of those 6. Even if you don't feel like you can relate on symptoms though, it helps to relate on the grounds that there is a suffering, which can be heard and seen on channels like these. We have in common the fact that we are experiencing a withdrawal, however it manifests.
Im not able to do anything physicially..
I still find it hard to believe anyone experiences the suffering I did. I had akathesia but I couldn't pace, standing upright was too horrible on the terror burning my chest stomach and throat. I crawled on the floor and rocked all day instead. My shaking was off the scale. Even my chest was shaking. Some days I couldn't talk with how much my jaw shook. I was doubled over. I screamed until I lost my voice. I couldn't breathe.
Helps so much!!!!
Much more attention needs to be paid to helping people titrate off these drugs! People are misunderstood coming off these drugs & are becoming injured. It's miserable for the person on them & for the people who are trying to help but don't know how to. Pharmaceutical companies & doctors need to be much more knowledgeable about the reality of the harm these drugs are doing to people!
I wish there was an international call-line. (Perhaps web-based).
And of course, physical centers (at least day-time ones) to support (guidance, encouragement, keep busy if possible) those who are having withdrawal or post-withdrawal symptoms.
ARE THERE NO SUCCESS STORIES? Post after post of disaster stories? How high is the suicide rates during withdrawal? Great this guy helps navigate by describes multiple close call. That isn't an especially great hope building story.
Wow! What a story.
I about had a stroke heart attack months after stopping benzos of eight years from a doctor who then decided to give me some after a year . He said he helped hundreds of people stop benzos, I wonder if they are still alive.
V we’ll expressed & so true
Hello Benzo Warriors
Thank you for sharing your story Chris 💚🙏💚
How can you determine if have neuronal damage via Scans if so what type of Scan would be done?
Keep Strong
💚🙏💚
Thankyou .. my doctor doesnt validate me. She just puts me back on the drug and shrugs her shoulders. I dont think she even believes me or wants to follow up and understand. Been trying to come off Cipramil. I got down to half dose after 6 months and I started to get akathisia, hallucinate devils and monsters, seeing a watery viel in front of my eyes, anxiety, suicidal ideation.
Hi everyone. I wish you all the best.
Question: Does/Could getting on trt (as a man) help with Benzo withdrawal? Ty.
Can you speak to the recovery time and some positve stories. Also natural remedies. To help calm down you nervous system.
Methylin Blue, Hydrogen Water, Red light therapy. All these help restore brain damage.
These videos scare me to the point of not wanting to try and stop the medication
I want to know in which cases re-instatement works. It's so important. We don't know even anecdotally?? We need STUDIES done!!! Wake up medical community, we are dying here!!! (YOU have left us dying here!!)
Will you do a video on side effects of tamsulosin?
One big reason I want to go off meds is to help others. I have tried to go off ability many times and keep going back on because I know I will try going off again.
Call out to Jesus . Going through the torture of protracted withdrawal will definitely make it easier to believe in evil forces of darkness. Call out to the one that can set you free and bind the evil one.
The only way out is through... my personal mantra
How long were you on what drug? What dose?
How long?
Then how long was the withdrawal?
I think in this discussion it is forgotten that often SSRIs induce akathisia in the first place while taking the drug, benzos only upon withdrawal. Some insight to be gained from that.
Also, akathisia happens in parkinson' disease.
I'm pretty sure it is iron deposition in the brain causing akathisia. Just trying to build a good case. For example, insomnia (akathesia induces insomnia I assume) patients have high brain iron deposits. Not clear which way the causation goes. Ssri induce insomnia.
(I'm dismissing the entire literature on restless legs syndrome - closely related to akathisia - claiming that it is due to a lack of iron in the brain.
For one, low serum levels does not prove low iron tissue levels in any way.
For the later MRI studies that tried to confirm the hypothesis that low iron in the brain was to blame: the only consistent finding was lower substantia nigra iron levels vs controls. The problem with these studies is, MRI can only show you relative differences of iron in different regions of the brain, NOT the absolute levels. So what could equally be the case is, that iron tissue levels were all HIGHER in the rls brain, and that the substantia nigra had less of an increase. Which is what I'm claiming is happening.
So this explains everything. Never mind that nobody ever found 'too little iron' in any tissue outside of the rls hypothesis, and that parkinson's, which can induce akathisia, is always associated with too much iron in the brain)
And here's how:
Ssri's force the brain to compensate the extra serotonin with more calcium, hence it adds more calcium channels over time. But calcium channels also act as alternative iron gates to take in free iron. The diabolical difference to benzos is, when you start getting akathisia symptoms, you can lower the ssri dose before more channels are built. But benzos also act as calcium channel blockers. What that means is the brain also compensates by building more calcium channels, but you don't notice because it only builds as much as was there before and not blocked. But when you get off benzos, you suddenly have a giant number of calcium channels that you didn't feel because they were blocked, ie much more severe iron inflow.
Which is why benzos must be tapered very slowly, you start out with a ton of extra calcium channels, that can't all be unblocked, whereas with ssri, there are no extra symptoms on tapering because you were always exposed to all the calcium channels.
Being on both benzos and ssri is even worse, because the benzos now covers over both the channel growths which compound.
From this perspective, the best tapering approach when you are on both ssris and benzos, is to first taper ssris completely, and then wait some more, before starting to taper benzos. That allows the undoing of all the extra calcium channels due to the serotonin excess, so you have less channels to remove on the benzo slope. When you taper the benzos, as a guide you could take the increased akathasia symptoms, don't taper anymore until the symptoms are significantly less, meaning the surplus channels exposed have now been removed.
Edit: adding some more nails to the rls research coffin:
Does hemochromatosis predispose to celiac disease? A study of 29,096 celiac disease patients, 2013 (answer: yes, OR 2.54, pretty substantial I'd say)
Restless legs syndrome is a common feature of adult celiac disease 2010
"Excessive % body fat was significantly associated with increased serum hepcidin and ferritin and an increased prevalence of severe risk of iron overload "
Risk of Iron Overload in Obesity and Implications in Metabolic Health, 2021
with
"Both overall and abdominal adiposity are associated with increased likelihoods of having restless legs syndrome (RLS)"
Obesity and restless legs syndrome in men and women, 2009
Association of restless legs syndrome and cardiovascular disease in the Sleep Heart Health Study, 2008 (OR >2)
with
"Higher dietary intake of heme iron was associated with a greater risk of CVD mortality" (linearly)
Dietary iron intake and risk of death due to cardiovascular diseases: A systematic review and dose-response meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies, 2020
"We could not replicate earlier findings describing reduced regional brain iron concentrations in patients with RLS"
Normal regional brain iron concentration in restless legs syndrome measured by MRI, 2022
My belief is RLS is just pseudo akathisia if it isn’t accompanied by the inner terror. I’ve come to realize Benadryl was my first akathisia offending medication. I thought it was “just” RLS. Now I’m positive it was akathisia. I had it happen again from Pseudophed in college and avoided antihistamines like the plague only knowing that I never wanted to feel that way again. I also avoided alcohol like the plague b/c I never wanted to feel that way again. Those were akathisia moments. I am sure of it.
Ssris can also have withdrawal akathisia- I was always stable on mine but listening to advice like this made me so so very sick since I was in multiple withdrawal akathisias.
I don't think you have bad intentions or bad advice, I just want to throw it out there some people have to hold on their meds to heal and we are just all different.
No doctor has ever believed me when I explained the symptoms that occur when trying to come off antidepressants. The only time a medical professional has shown empathy was in Montreal, I went there for a long weekend and forgot my meds. Went to a pharmacy and the pharmacist first said no then saw my face and took pity on me. This was back in 2007...
Ran out of meds in California in 2022 and went to two different GPs who both refused to write a prescription. I came close to admitting myself to a psych ward.
Long walks, hot shower and/or bath, do yoga, write in a journal, drink herbal teas like passion flower and chamomile, volunteer for a cause you support. All of this will be very hard, like changing the course of the Colorado River, but it will make the day go faster and may help you sleep. Never give up.
LMBO! Just stop with the quacky crap bs
Dr. Josef, how can I best speak to you to see if you may want to do an interview? I have been dealing with the head of legal from one of the biggest global pharma giants and interacting with the CEO. I have compelling evidence of their blatant lies. I have a long email thread. My experience similar to your guest in this. I'm still going through it. I was prescribed a benzo around 2002. Please let me know how best to reach you. Thank you for your work and deeply appreciated empathy, medical understanding and expertise.
I’ve been going through this for 2 years. Not as extreme but a human explanation can never come close to expressing the torture of the experience.
He lost all his support, as I have. Hope in recovery is purposeless if there’s nobody at the finish line. 😢
How about people with zero support. How does one go through a couple years minimum to come back to a functional life? Especially when you have Dr.s that don't get it nor believe it?
IT TOTALY STEALS YOUR LIFE , AND YOU HAVE A FRONT ROW SEAT , IT IS ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE !! I HAD TO COLD TURKEY PROZAC , VALIUM , AND GABAPENTIN , ALL AT A HIGH DOSE TOO , CANT BELIEVE I LIVED , BEST TO ALL SUFFERING, EVERY DAY GETS A LITTLE BETTER. POWER THROUGH IT !!
So what do you do now ?
I have been dealing with akathisia and severe fatigue at the same time and it has been horrible.
Chris paige is the best!!!
I had sessions with Chris last year
In 2024 I went to florida with my ex fiancée and forced myself to go
I ended up in the hospital with blood clots and after coming home I was able to with help from my friend Jeanne to get a spike protein level in my blood which was high
More loss after 3 years but I will not give up
The 29 minute mark about attempted suicide is very true
We don’t want to die but we try to let our loved ones know it is worse than they think- and they don’t know how to help us- what do you do when they call the police and you get locked up
It does happen and it is so ghastly unconstitutional, so wrong, the locking up thing. Unbelievably gruesome and archaic. I am so appalled with the “mental health” ideas in this country.
Im 72 been clean for 25 years
I need help after psin management dr now 2 yreas of opiated
He got mad for asking for my medical records shut me off of every thing
Hes hiding something
Plus i need videos of detoxing opiats again in my language i dont understand titration
PROPRANOLOL taken while closely monitoring your blood pressure has shown to help many people with Akathisia.
I read that Akathisia has 90 symptoms. 😓🤦♀️
Lunesta for me think I will die
John 8:32
yay Dr. CHRIS PAIGE!
He is not a doctor.
Stop lying.
@@Pattycakes-hc4pmWhat is he? He mentions having patients.
@@anteg9084 therapist
@@anteg9084 He is not a doctor, not even close. Look up his "Credentials" on line. This guy can't even get himself off the psych meds, and he has no business coaching anyone about getting off, since he himself cannot even get off. sheesh
I gotta know the guest's Beliefs...
play a video game. shake a tambourine. smoke pot. sleep. walk dog. those are good days😊
If I smoke pot during this benzo stuff I would go nuts😂
@@louisgeen765 I do too
I have a question and I hope someone can help me with it. I’ve been on 2 mg of Xanax for 5/6 years and I’m gonna switch over to diazepam for my taper but my doctor wants to put me on 20mg of diazepam but I thought 2mg Xanax was equal to 40 mg? I’m so confused… I don’t want to start my taper with the wrong diazepam dose. Can someone light me in please?
I looked it up on a conversion calculator and it came up as 20mg diazepam for 2mg Xanax.
@@staceyseymour9297 that’s why I’m confused because in the Ashton Manual it says 40 mg and people that tapered off it also say 40 but then again allot of sites say 20. And from 40 to 20 is a big difference
@@TE-7302- thanks for your reply! So it would be bad if the doctor put me on 20 mg right?
Be sure you get it right because my doctor gave me 20mg diazepam to taper when I was on 2mg of klonopin and I felt like I was going insane by the second day. .5mg of klonopin is equal to 10 mg diazepam. I thought zanax was the same but I'm not positive.
40 mg is correct, but you can taper with Xanax. Maybe your doctor would prescribe a compounding liquid of Xanax.
nevermind...
What a great business model! Get people addicted to Benzodiazepines then charge 100k to treat the damage 😂
To me it doesnt quite make sense, sorry i this sounds insensitive or basic, but if you were in such severe situation of suicide, why not just go back on the benzo drug? First step to remove the symptoms, then stablize and then work on a tapering system. If you get to a level where you cannot reduce any further, then just stay there and test to see how you might work to very slowly reduce it over a long period. It doesnt make sense to me that people should have to suffer so much they would prefer death, than to just go back to the drug and try again later usiing a more cautious and slow approach
Well, for many of us with psychiatric iatrogenic harm, like the man in this video, we've sustained a brain injury. Protracted withdrawal is a literal brain injury. And going back on the medication that caused the injury not only doesn't help, but can often times cause furthur damage. Reinstating is not an option for many of us, unfortunately.