There is something in us that feels we must be for or against what we see. We approve or disapprove, while the subject of our gaze just "is." We attach our inner world to it. As you say, we project onto the image or issue, as if the artist asked for our advice.
This and your video "Best of 2023" must be shown at every photography school. Such a relief to see people like you removing all the nonsense from what truly matters. We who share your thoughts on this have been the "silent majority" but I'm so glad that more of us are speaking out, and by "us" I mean people with common sense who just want to do the best job they can. I love your final point about AI; which came along as a disturbing force for many creatives, but in the photographic field it will serve as a useful treatment for the disease of Art-ivism. Please keep these coming.
Sherman's work is most impressive but to be honest I never heard of her until now and her work intrigues me to the point where I'm going to research her some more. Thank you Graeme for another great video and introduction.
So she has been culturally and politicallyappropriated by feminists and the woke in general how ironic and disturbing, I agree entirely with your observations, it incredible how people want to pull you into their own box. Thanks for introducing me to this powerful work and persona, am keen to see more and learn more about this amazing artist and woman
I do like Cindy Sherman's work, the skill, knowledge and research is obvious and for me it is image making in the best sense, whereas most Conceptual Art usually leaves me cold - just because you have an idea doesn't make it art IMHO. Art can definitely make a statement, it rarely as an individual piece defines an ideology - even propaganda 'Art'. Its a pity that two fairly extreme views try to either claim or vilify her work, although when an artist puts their work out there into the world it is inevitably going to be interpreted, its your child but you can't control its destiny.
Mr. Williams, I completely agree with your statements about Cindy. I believe that fanaticism is a social expression that reveals the drama of the 20th centuries and the passing of the 21st, which does not promise much, I am referring to the destruction of social ties. Its causes are too many to be analyzed and I believe that this space could not contain an extensive comment. In any case, your points of view about all the artists that you have shown us are very powerful and, together with the chosen works, they are helping me think and I must thank you very much for this.
Thanks for this wonderful video of a great artist of our time, love watching your photographic conversations. All of them are well researched and I always learn something new.
Great: thanks! Cindy! The place of politics in art is such a big, and for me painful, subject. Not sure they don't intersect, but for sure the influence of politics is way out of balance....IMHO.
Thought-provoking video. All great art is political in that it represents the freedom of the individual to express themselves in a manner outside the strictures of societal pressures. Intentionally political art runs the same risk as protest songs; all but the rare abstract few (Blowing in the Wind) become quickly dated and of a particular time and place, antithetical to the eternal relevance of great art. It is Sherman's art'srelevance to the relation of the self to the world that makes her work timeless, but it would be naive to not also see the potential for messages about women's multiple places in society to be also read into some of it.
Hi Yes, Bobby can do no wrong in my mind. Even when he was going through his political and religious phases, he still managed to speak/sing with a singular voice.
@@PhotoConversations He has a great track record, but even he falls prey to the sell-by date syndrome with something more obvious like "Hurricane," which doesn't age as well as most of his other work.
Great video, Graeme. Excellent intro to a very, very influential artist. Huge numbers of imitators in the world today exploring the construction and fluidity of identity and gender. In the later part of your video I am not convinced that you’ve managed anything approaching a coherent statement about art and politics. There is a wealth of great political art (as well as a lot of not-so-great art). And political reading of art is a vital approach, irrespective of artistic intentions.
“Untitled Film Stills” addresses the way women are so frequently treated as victims and vulnerable in even the best movies of the 50s and 60s. Frequently movie plots manipulate women into situations in which are isolated and can be threatened. Sherman’s stills chime with early feminist critical readings of Hitchcock, Film Noir and so on. Quite subtle in presentation, they are open to reading and interpretation.
Wrap your head around the fact that she seems to WANT to be one of these victimized, romantic, 'Femme Fatales'. She relishes in it. Her stills are often written about as "Powerful Woman" but I see a lot of Masochism and submission. Dare I say a "damsel in distress".Not the stuff those Feminist want to hear. There is more to the story.
oh.. Cindy's work absolutely tells all about her-they are the perfect self portrait ....except it's not the cindy in the photograh so much as it's the cindy the art director - thru the photographs, we can climb inside her head. These are the things that she came up with..so they are way more telling than a portrait of herself would be.. the photographs are brilliant - but the concept of the photograph is genius
I think art is up to the artist. There is no rule that says you must be one thing or another. It is just the artists choice. I cant look at the world in purely aesthetic terms. Life is a political arena. Debates surrounding many progressive issues in modern western societies, such as gender issues, environmental issues, and personal liberty have become toxic. Progress itself has become a divisive issue. At the moment more people seem interested in finding things to disagree about, than things worth agreeing upon.
Interesting to hear the right wing version of the basis of art. "Political" art is a choice. Artists who choose to explore the world around them expressing a political slant on life does not necessarily make good or bad art. Georg Grosz, John Heartfield, Goya, Heinrich Kley, James Ensor, Honore Daumier, the First World War poets, Bertholt Brecht. the list of politically engaged artists goes on. Choosing to base your own art on the study of the fluff in your own navel is your own perfectly legitimate choice. If other people choose to interpret it as a feminist statement is not a matter for you, the artist. You cannot make legitimate art criticism on the basis of a perverse or unsupported interpretation of the artist's original intent. So the critics mis appropriations can be safely ignored
AI slop will always be slop. I think you did a good job of introducing her and her work but I do question, what value is there in picking on artists whose main fault appears to be being a bit "cringe" in their unsubtle attempts to make statements that they feel speaks some truth of the world? I'll take 100 enthusiastic, overzealous young people over a single person who feels it better to just be a spectator.
Hi Yes, I don't like to pick on individual artists, but I feel that the leanings of the art world are open territory and they have a lot to answer for.
"Another unfortunate result of Sherman's legacy is that following her success there's been proliferation of dress up self-portraiture in the art world...Unfortunately there's been very little real innovation in this arena during the past half century. Most of these pieces look a bit like first year art students attempting to make radical statements." There's nothing wrong with being inspired by someone's work and attempting to imitate it or adapt it. What makes Sherman great is that she did it so well and captured it even better. But there's no need to diss student or non-student artists. I think everyone should be able to do art and photography, and not have to worry about being "great" and having their work made fun of.
There is something in us that feels we must be for or against what we see. We approve or disapprove, while the subject of our gaze just "is." We attach our inner world to it. As you say, we project onto the image or issue, as if the artist asked for our advice.
Great presentation. I love that Sherman's work is produced without regard to convention, peer presure, commercialism or politics.
Not knocking her, or you… but “without regard” ? Joking, right?
Another excellent and informative video. I’ve known a little of Sherman’s work, but you have opened it up for me. Thanks Graeme.
This and your video "Best of 2023" must be shown at every photography school. Such a relief to see people like you removing all the nonsense from what truly matters.
We who share your thoughts on this have been the "silent majority" but I'm so glad that more of us are speaking out, and by "us" I mean people with common sense who just want to do the best job they can.
I love your final point about AI; which came along as a disturbing force for many creatives, but in the photographic field it will serve as a useful treatment for the disease of Art-ivism.
Please keep these coming.
Many thanks Ed!
Sherman's work is most impressive but to be honest I never heard of her until now and her work intrigues me to the point where I'm going to research her some more. Thank you Graeme for another great video and introduction.
There is a lot to look at and her dedication was impressive.
So she has been culturally and politicallyappropriated by feminists and the woke in general how ironic and disturbing, I agree entirely with your observations, it incredible how people want to pull you into their own box. Thanks for introducing me to this powerful work and persona, am keen to see more and learn more about this amazing artist and woman
Screw the critics, accept the art for what it is. As we know you can't make everybody happy. Therefore make yourself happy.
Hi Pamela I'm with you on that one!
I do like Cindy Sherman's work, the skill, knowledge and research is obvious and for me it is image making in the best sense, whereas most Conceptual Art usually leaves me cold - just because you have an idea doesn't make it art IMHO. Art can definitely make a statement, it rarely as an individual piece defines an ideology - even propaganda 'Art'. Its a pity that two fairly extreme views try to either claim or vilify her work, although when an artist puts their work out there into the world it is inevitably going to be interpreted, its your child but you can't control its destiny.
Hi Iain Yes, art isn't for the faint-hearted.
Mr. Williams, I completely agree with your statements about Cindy. I believe that fanaticism is a social expression that reveals the drama of the 20th centuries and the passing of the 21st, which does not promise much, I am referring to the destruction of social ties. Its causes are too many to be analyzed and I believe that this space could not contain an extensive comment. In any case, your points of view about all the artists that you have shown us are very powerful and, together with the chosen works, they are helping me think and I must thank you very much for this.
Many thanks!
Thanks for this wonderful video of a great artist of our time, love watching your photographic conversations. All of them are well researched and I always learn something new.
Thanks Ralf
Content and context - what a channel! 😊
Thanks SOOITU
Great video with interesting insights into Cindy Sherman's work, which I greatly enjoy.
Wonderful video of an artist I was totally unaware of.
So interesting to listen to your thoughts.
I don’t follow many photographers on social media. Of those I do follow, at the first instance political ideology, I no longer follow.
A large red flag!!
I really appreciate your channel. thank you
Great: thanks! Cindy!
The place of politics in art is such a big, and for me painful, subject. Not sure they don't intersect, but for sure the influence of politics is way out of balance....IMHO.
Yes, I commented earlier, saying that politics is probably impossible to avoid, but ideology is a creativity killer.
Thought-provoking video. All great art is political in that it represents the freedom of the individual to express themselves in a manner outside the strictures of societal pressures. Intentionally political art runs the same risk as protest songs; all but the rare abstract few (Blowing in the Wind) become quickly dated and of a particular time and place, antithetical to the eternal relevance of great art. It is Sherman's art'srelevance to the relation of the self to the world that makes her work timeless, but it would be naive to not also see the potential for messages about women's multiple places in society to be also read into some of it.
Hi Yes, Bobby can do no wrong in my mind. Even when he was going through his political and religious phases, he still managed to speak/sing with a singular voice.
@@PhotoConversations He has a great track record, but even he falls prey to the sell-by date syndrome with something more obvious like "Hurricane," which doesn't age as well as most of his other work.
@@hoagyguitarmichael Yup he got that one wrong.
Great video, Graeme. Excellent intro to a very, very influential artist. Huge numbers of imitators in the world today exploring the construction and fluidity of identity and gender.
In the later part of your video I am not convinced that you’ve managed anything approaching a coherent statement about art and politics. There is a wealth of great political art (as well as a lot of not-so-great art). And political reading of art is a vital approach, irrespective of artistic intentions.
Mmm we will have to agree to disagree on that point. Politics is everywhere, but ideology needs to be guarded against.
Thank you.
“Untitled Film Stills” addresses the way women are so frequently treated as victims and vulnerable in even the best movies of the 50s and 60s. Frequently movie plots manipulate women into situations in which are isolated and can be threatened. Sherman’s stills chime with early feminist critical readings of Hitchcock, Film Noir and so on. Quite subtle in presentation, they are open to reading and interpretation.
Wrap your head around the fact that she seems to WANT to be one of these victimized, romantic, 'Femme Fatales'. She relishes in it. Her stills are often written about as "Powerful Woman" but I see a lot of Masochism and submission. Dare I say a "damsel in distress".Not the stuff those Feminist want to hear. There is more to the story.
Excellent clip on Cindy. I’ve always loved her work
Thanks Di x
Well said! Art is enough.
oh.. Cindy's work absolutely tells all about her-they are the perfect self portrait ....except it's not the cindy in the photograh so much as it's the cindy the art director - thru the photographs, we can climb inside her head. These are the things that she came up with..so they are way more telling than a portrait of herself would be.. the photographs are brilliant - but the concept of the photograph is genius
Hi Yes, there is a grey area in all of art that is hard to be absolutely categorical on.
I think art is up to the artist. There is no rule that says you must be one thing or another. It is just the artists choice. I cant look at the world in purely aesthetic terms. Life is a political arena. Debates surrounding many progressive issues in modern western societies, such as gender issues, environmental issues, and personal liberty have become toxic. Progress itself has become a divisive issue. At the moment more people seem interested in finding things to disagree about, than things worth agreeing upon.
Hi Roger Yup, a genuine desire for common ground would be a good start for us all.
Interesting to hear the right wing version of the basis of art. "Political" art is a choice. Artists who choose to explore the world around them expressing a political slant on life does not necessarily make good or bad art. Georg Grosz, John Heartfield, Goya, Heinrich Kley, James Ensor, Honore Daumier, the First World War poets, Bertholt Brecht. the list of politically engaged artists goes on. Choosing to base your own art on the study of the fluff in your own navel is your own perfectly legitimate choice. If other people choose to interpret it as a feminist statement is not a matter for you, the artist. You cannot make legitimate art criticism on the basis of a perverse or unsupported interpretation of the artist's original intent. So the critics mis appropriations can be safely ignored
AI slop will always be slop. I think you did a good job of introducing her and her work but I do question, what value is there in picking on artists whose main fault appears to be being a bit "cringe" in their unsubtle attempts to make statements that they feel speaks some truth of the world? I'll take 100 enthusiastic, overzealous young people over a single person who feels it better to just be a spectator.
Hi Yes, I don't like to pick on individual artists, but I feel that the leanings of the art world are open territory and they have a lot to answer for.
"Another unfortunate result of Sherman's legacy is that following her success there's been proliferation of dress up self-portraiture in the art world...Unfortunately there's been very little real innovation in this arena during the past half century. Most of these pieces look a bit like first year art students attempting to make radical statements." There's nothing wrong with being inspired by someone's work and attempting to imitate it or adapt it. What makes Sherman great is that she did it so well and captured it even better. But there's no need to diss student or non-student artists. I think everyone should be able to do art and photography, and not have to worry about being "great" and having their work made fun of.
It isn't the individual artists that I have issue with...it is the trend setting art world. It is the art world glitterati that I have in my sights.