Happy Ending to a Sad Story! Building a 400 Pontiac - How to install a flat tappet camshaft!
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- čas přidán 17. 02. 2024
- Joe Fernandes brought me a 455 Pontiac back in October that had a broken piston and block.
He found this 400 Pontiac on Marketplace, watch as we build it into beautiful street engine for his 1968 Firebird.
How to install a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft
How to check crankshaft clearance
How to use plastigauge to check clearance
Leaking rear main seal?
If you are building a 389,400, 428, or 455
Pontiac, watch this video for helpful tips and how to’s. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
You’re a good man. And your videos will be helping folks for a long time. Building Pontiac motors is becoming a lost art and, you’re saving it. Good job!
Thanks Bill, very nice compliment! AG
In my Mechanic days back in the 70s, I ran 2 Pontiacs, one was a 400 in a Grand Prix. The Pontiac engine is so amazing in th eright hands. I put and intake and Carter AFB off a 389 on a 326. It came to life beyond expectations. The Ram Air engines and the 428 are never to be underestimated. They are a Force to be reckoned with. Read up. Any gear head from the 70s knows about these engines and cars.
Thanks for your comments Warren. good info. AG
The air cleaner stud is clearly a case for threadlocker. It's amazing how something so simple and easy to overlock can be so catastrophic expensive. it sure pays to not rush and give yourself time to reflect as you build.
Thanks for your comments Joe. AG
Loving the detail on this sweet sweet build. 🇨🇦
Thanks Bgee! AG
Thank you for your hard work in making your videos. Trying to get a 428 short block finished for my '70 GTO in storage last 38 years. Thank you again.
Thank you for watching and commenting Kevin. Good luck on your build. AG
Great video. Thank you for sharing and the detailed information.
Thanks for watching and commenting Mr. AG
Thanks for the Pontiac content.
Your welcome WT, more to come. AG
great video.
Thanks, and thank you for watching and commenting r!g2v3. AG
Another outstanding and informative video. I especially like the technical background information you provide on the engineering that went into the original design. I also enjoyed the comparison information between the Pontiac and Chevrolet engines. Your videos communicate your knowledge and experience very well which inspires confidence in your work. Well done!
Thanks Todd. We should be ready for your 389 sometime in March. AG
Hey AG,
Tim here once more, NICE JOB of explaining the BOP rear main seal... its the only dude i use now......glad i stuck it out for the bottom end crank finish.....it validates how i do things......NICE JOB SIR!!!...ur customer has a FANTASTIC crank installed properly!!...TY for puttin up with me!!!....PEACE to you sir!!
Thanks Tim, I always enjoy your input on my channel AG
Thank you so much for doing this video. I will be assembling my Pontiac 400 within the next couple of months. So much valuable info. When i watch your videos i tell my wife “i’m going to class” Thanks again😊
Thanks for the very nice compliment, I will tell my wife about this one. AG
Thank you for another good video!! Very important to talk about the differences between the Pontiac and the Chevy engine!! Would like to learn more about the intake valve ( 30 degree) on the Pontiac cylinder heads.
Thanks for your comment 4Speed. More to come. AG
That appears to be a pretty special block looking at that lifter valley!
Chevy guy mostly, your explanation of the differences between the Chev and Pontiac engines was great. Learned many things I did not Know. Thanks.
Thanks for the compliment Dino. AG
Love your Pontiac video’s! I have a TransAm with a 400 in it runs strong but I want more power thinking about switching to a 455 Pontiac
Thanks Elaine. You're in luck. We will have Todd Browns 389 on the dyno this weekend. Watch for the video early next week. AG
Great video as usual. ARP bolts do usually have more clamping force do to being torqued with assembly lube and not engine oil.
Thanks for watching and commenting. AG
Good video
Thank you Elaine.AG
I've seen a dyno test on another respectable channel where it was shown the factory Pontiac intake manifold was stronger than the Performer across the power band.
Thanks for the info David. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 That factory manifold still weighs a ton though.😁
It sure does, a good reason to use the aluminum manifold. They look nice too! AG
They’re a runner even in stock form.. Had one in a 69 Catalina that would shred the tires from a 20mph roll every time.. Two barrel carb n points ignition to boot. Lot of fun in that ole car.
Great video AG!
Thanks for your comment Phil. AG
They say cutting the divider down 1" makes the intake better on power and torque AG.
With the screw in studs for the air filter you have to safety wire tie that or put 2 holes in it top and bottom then put small c Clips in it this way it will stop from unscrewing and dropping inside the engine block😊
Why not just put a lock nut on it?
Put a lock nut on it, nylon lock nut works well AG. Carb stud...
We use ARP L19 rod bolts with 79 foot pounds torque for turbo ls engines. Will the cap distort with those high torque bolts? Thanks for the video. I’m planning on doing my 66 Pontiac GTO 400 in the near future. I haven’t done a Pontiac since I was on high school. Class of 1969. Definitely in need of a refresher course. Thanks again for the video loved it.
Thanks Daniel. The clamping force is proportional to the torque (energy) that you put into it, so yes you could distort the rod, especially an OEM style stock rod. AG
I always thought the Pontiacs had a 14 degree valve to cylinder angle and the valve job was 30 degrees on the intake for improved low low lift flow.
From ‘67 Pontiac changed to 14deg valve angles. Prior they were at 22deg. Alan I think you mean the valve seat angle is at 30deg?👍
You are correct David, I meant to say a 30 degree valve seat. Pontiac’s built before 1967 were a 21 degree valve angle after 1967 were 14 degree. We’ve made a quick edit to the video to avoid confusion.
Thanks for commenting. AG
Thanks Dave, you are correct. I meant to say 30 degree valve seat. We have made an edit to the video to avoid any confusion.
Thanks for commenting. AG
Then I traded a braided oval rug for a 66 three duces setup I drilled all my main jets to quarter inch then put a boat electrick ful pump in the back maid a fuel rail from a chunk of aluminum fed the primary whith a high output regularfuel and word up a switch for the electric fuelpump
I really didn’t know much about Pontiac engines when I got the 400 TransAm I just liked the car so I got it, someone told me I need to switch to a big block Chevy to get real power, not sure if I want to do it
thanks for the comment Elaine, but i wouldn't do that if i were you. Stick to your Pontiac power. AG
I am glad you explained the use of ARP vs OEM GM fasteners. ARP does make very nice bolts and I always think of Bill Jenkins because he used GM bolts and oil pumps and fabricated his own spacer bearings using OEM GM bearings for swapping cranks in a small block. It is good to be frugal and wise. Have you ever used the fasteners from SpeedMaster? I have dealt with them and the products always looked somewhat inferior. I have a set of their head studs and then opted for a set of ARP. Just wondering what your experience with SpeedMaster is. Their engine blocks are supposed to be nice. I ordered one back when the LA harbor was a bottleneck boondoggle and it was like pulling teeth to get a refund a year later for not supplying a block. It was not a happy experience. The wires on the distributors are smaller gage than what is commonly used and I have no experience with their electronics. I see Summit, Jegs and I think possibly Speedway has some of their products for sale online now. I do know the manifolds flow less than what they mimic from watching a couple CZcamsrs that do nothing but head flowing. Great videos. I believe you cover all the pitfalls and give an excellent explanation of why one way vs another. Keep them coming.
Thanks for the question 4speed. I have used many Speedmaster products with good results. I wouldn't worry about it. AG
Biggest thing with ARP rod bolts is the torque spec is with ARP thread lube. It would be much higher with motor oil. Factory stuff is spec'd with motor oil- it would be less with ARP lube
Correct, thanks for your comments Robert. AG
Bigblock Chevy stock head bolts torque to 70 lbs. AG.
1k in America is the same as 1k in China? That is true. Math is the 1 true universal language in the universe. That is a good looking engine. I can't wait to see her together. Thank you for the info Sir Gold.
Thanks you so much for the very nice title, I hope it sticks! AG
No .0001 in China is different than here always double check !
Plastigage gets wider not thicker from the crush of the crank checking the bearing clearance. Less crush has more crank bearing clearance AG.
Ok Leonard, poor choice of words, I think you know what I meant. AG
Hey AG,
Tim here, i've known that cam # for a good while, as yes, you know i'm one of ur Poncho nerd sub'rs, its a great cam, has a bit of lope, and does well to 5500....not massive lope, and NOT for 6k rpm.....i can see the Performer intake, the motor wud do a bit better with an RPM, and the loss at low rpm wud be minimal....i have one here in my shop.......if customer just wants to drive, fine, great intake, if he wants to R&R a bit, the RPM is a much better choice.....the runner design is nite and day.....and again, we dont lose much at all at 2000 rpm, maybe other factors are in play.....i stopped the vid at 11 min to comment, i'm probably speakin to soon, but the combo seems appropriate.......OH, those #16's look to be the late '60's itteration, as the '70's version are quite difrent....i search for those #16 ('68) castings all the time...they are lovely!!......#48's or #62's can net same result......i ran 12:09 with stock, unported '62's in 2008......ok, i gotta get back to the vid
Thanks Tim. AG
excellent video. please explain why the middle three main caps look like the ends are broken off? Its a 2 bolt block but it looks like a 4 bolt with broken main caps, Thanks
Good catch Michael. The dowels are just for location and do not contribute to the integrity of the main bearing cap support. There is sufficient material there to locate the cap correctly. AG
I appreciate your response, keep the great content coming. @@goldsgarage8236
same thing happened to my 390 ford.it beat up the piston and cracked the cylinder wall
Thanks for sharing, more instances of this than I expected. AG
I built mine in in a coal garage
I put a ram air 5 cam in mine 67 GTO engine
The Ram Air 5 cam will only work if you have the RA5 heads with matching intake and exhaust system.
Hey brother I just replaced my head gaskets on my engine it want crank didn't remove distributor still locked in place could my timing still be off
Sorry to hear Dean. If you think it might be timing, try cranking the engine with the ignition turned off. AG
I could not keep a clutch in it had my muncy rock crusher rebuilt had the biggest shift rods hurst maid with bronze bushings could never get third feet with all the two barrels kicked in
Thanks for the info Michael. AG
What threaded rod was it? The rod looks like one that is used to hold the air cleaner set up to the carb. Where did it come from?
Thanks for the question Bill. Yes, it was the threaded rod that holds the breather in place. AG
Great video, lots of good info for Pontiac folks! I would have opted for a Hyd-Roller cam setup, as it seems the straight Hyd cams seem to fail more often than not - ask me how I know. 😵. My next project is to swap out my Hyd cams in my 400 to a Hyd-roller. Enables me to run higher lift (without losing street manners). Thanks again (subscribed)!
Thanks for commenting and subscribing. AG
What’s with the broken alignment pin holes on the main caps?
I was wondering the same thing
I see the middle main bearing caps have a small chunk of casting missing on the edge where the dowel pins are. Is that okay
Good catch Christopher. The dowels are for alignment only and 75% is enough to accomplish alignment. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 Not sure I'd run those middle main caps like that? Somebody got happy taking that 400 apart and busted the dowel alignment holes in the castings. Not good for a performance build imho. Center caps take take the heaviest load too and the main caps can walk. But thats the problem with finding good pontiac engine block cores today. The last thick casting 400's were built in 1974, pontiac did hold back a few thick casting 400's for the W72 400 4 speed TA's up to 1979 but those are also getting as rare as hens teeth.
What is the deal with the broken ends on the main caps where the locating dowels go? There is no way I would use that block or at least have good main caps installed. The machine bill to have other caps installed could exceed the value of the block. Here it costs about 7 to 9 hundred depending on the engine.
Was going to replace them, the machine shop told me they were more then fine to use.
Thanks for your comment John. The location dowels are just that, they locate the caps. They are outside of the main bearing bolts and do not contribute to the strength of the main bearing caps. AG
@@67Firebird I would not use those caps on any build in that condition.
What is going on with the main caps? Each is broken where the dowle pins are
Good catch Jim. The damage was from a former life of this block. The dowels are still effective for alignment. There are similar comments on this video and I have provided a thorough technical response to them. AG
When setting the thrust bearings do you have to hit the front first then the rear? Or does it not matter……
Good question Trent. IT doesn't really matter, as you see I moved it back and fourth with a screwdriver when checking the thrust clearance. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 yeah i didnt even think of it that way…..thank you for confirming my thoughts!!!
Are you using a windage tray on that 400?
Yes, it is still in the other block as is the pan and oil pump. We will get to it. AG
In my experience you should never bore a Pontiac block they have a elliptical bore and will not hold together even at 30 over but that’s what I learned the hard way
Thanks for sharing your experience Michael. AG
We usually need to take them out to .065 to true the bores up due to core shift.
These good looking 65s got 396 s ! Till 71 i paid little attention , but built a455 dont put over 300 shot or u see a burn ring around the engine room from the lifting heads ! About 15 years ago we were home page picture , about 2 foot up an 9.20s with only 2 gears out of a 4001🎉
why do some of the early aluminum sbc heads have pontiac molded into them
i think they were nascar heads
I believe that is correct. Thanks for the info. AG
why did they have Pontiac molded onto them did they fit on a Pontiac engine as well@@goldsgarage8236
Your explanation for number one cylinder is a bid confusing. Distributor rotation is correct.
Sorry for the confusion, The front cylinder on the drivers side is #1, however the front cylinder on the passenger side is forward to it. The connecting rod for #2 cylinder is in front of the crank journal, so the rod for #1 is to the rear. I will follow up with this point in a future video. Thanks for the question. AG
Its too bad that the pistons had only two valve reliefs instead of four, would raise the compression some, plus fuel would swirl better in the combustion chamber and carbon buildup.
Thanks Leonard, we will be calculating CR and DCR in a video soon. AG
never liked sealed power bearings
Thanks for commenting K3. AG
Just out of curiosity, why did he build a 400 instead of another 455?
I had a hard time locating a 455 block for a decent price
@@67Firebird Didn't want to have the 455 crank turned to fit the 400 block?
Have had some bad luck with Pontiac's over the years LOL .so I decided to just build a 400 instead of trying to stoke it @@thegdfp6447
Thanks for commenting on your engine Joe, please continue to do so as you see fit. AG
@@thegdfp6447 For what I'm using the engine for i didn't think i needed a stroker
CR?
Thanks for the question Autonomous. We will be calculating CR in a future video. AG
Unfortunately thats 0roly happened many times
Thanks Ricky, yes it does, hopefully we can all learn from Joe's bad luck. AG
Why would anyone use a flat tappet cam anymore ?
Because roller cams are very expensive. I have installed may flat tappet cams and haven't lost one yet. A very detailed process for installation, start up and maintenance is necessary but it works. AG
@goldsgarage8236 it's a lot more expensive when a cam gets wiped out and you have to pay twice to get the whole engine redone. I will pay the extra few hundred forward every time.
Thanks Mitch, that is a good strategy. Thanks for commenting. AG
Pontiac blocks are inherently weak. They crack between cam and the valley, only good for about 450 to 500, maybe. The clamping force on the heads isn't a good as a small block or bigblock with 16 head bolts.
There are 17 - 7/16 head bolts on a SBC. Each has a clamping force of 9,550 pounds. 9,550 x 17 = 162,350 pounds. There are 10 - 1/2" bolts on a Pontiac, each has a clamping force of 12,750 pounds, 12,750 x 10 = 127, 500 pounds. You are correct. AG
I'll take a Pontiac 400 over a 396BB any day. Pontiac doesn't have a history of losing to Chevy's.
Combustion chamber on a Pontiac heads is a poor design...
U might be a nice guy , but we as juniors were fixing the slow turning 389s and then direct from junk yards into 65 gtos ,the biggest cams would only turn 6000 ,please stick Chevies , u barely know a little more there or about as much as u think u know about rear ends !
You certainly weren’t learning the English language. You must be a miserable person to take time out of your day, to bash people who are trying to help others on CZcams. I’m sure you must have a very successful CZcams channel with all kinds of great information and knowledge but, I can’t find it?
Honest questions. Are you actually going to use those broken main caps? And why are the cap pins pushed so far into the block? The one on the middle main is so far into the block that it doesn't even touch the cap, and you can plainly see that. There is no way those caps will ever stay in the right spot, they will move on every heat cycle...
Thanks for your question David. The 1/4" pins are for installation alignment only. The clamping force of a 1/2" Grade 8 bolt torqued to 100 ft.lb is !4,000 pounds. There are 2 of them, so a total if 28,000 pounds or 14 Tons. The expansion of steel at 300 degrees is less than .001". Once the cap bolts are torqued, the pins are redundant. Pretty sure GM engineers didn't depend on a couple of 1/4" pins to hold the crankshaft in place. Hope this helps.
@@goldsgarage8236 Pontiac blocks don't have registers for the main caps where they sit in the block, to stop them from walking, and the pins are what holds them from walking, period. The bolt does the clamping force, which has nothing to due with location. Why do you think blocks use pins or registers, or both? Expansion of steel is great, but it is a ductile iron block and none of the surfaces are unform thicknesses in the block side area of the main, which further promotes the walking due to flexing and uneven expansion. Flexing is entirely load related as well. You have stock brittle caps, that walked and popped the corners off, due to expansion, flexing, and walking on all 3 center caps.. Did you think that someone magically dropped all the center caps and broke all of them the same way? We are both looking at flex and walk damage to the caps that is all to common in Pontiac blocks.... It will be far worse as HP or load goes up as well. Ask yourself why only one side of the cap broke, on all 3 caps, the same way? It wasn't a fluke....There is a reason that only one side breaks like that, it is called cap movement and compression flex from crankshaft side loading.... Not a problem, until it is, and it is obviously already a problem that you can plainly see. Now the 3 center caps will walk even more than stock, unevenly, and pinch the bearing circle slightly out of square. The caps are moving, and the evidence is the broken caps...... I have redone many of those blocks and specialized in endurance Pontiacs for years. You do what you want thou. Thankfully, it isn't my engine.... And if it was, it would be getting new center caps to ensure the bearings stayed in the block, and out of the oil filter where they are going to be if someone beats on it........
Thanks again David for a thorough and detailed response. I respect your point of view and your knowledge and experience.
First, i should mention that Joe brought three new caps to the machine shop with the block and it was their decision not to use them. I was not part of that decision but I accepted it so now I own it.
Lets look at it from an engineering point of view. First I have to correct my initial comment. The clamping force of a 1/2" grade 8 bolt is 12,750lb. not 14,000lb. as i stated. (14,000lb was for a fine thread bolt)
When the bolt is torqued, it imparts friction between the cap and block. The coefficient of friction between cast iron and cast iron is 1.1. (1.1 x 12,750 x2 bolts = 28,050lb) or 14 tons. so it takes 14 tons of tangential force to make the cap move with respect to the block.
If you are depending on the location pins to prevent movement, the mode of failure would be to shear the pins. The shear strength of a 1/4" mild steel pin is 355lb x 2 pins = 710lb.
The pins are alignment dowels similar to the dowels between the head and block.
I stand behind my work and I am confident that Joe's engine will give him many miles of good service without issue.
David, thanks for watching my channel and commenting. We are all learning. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 I am well aware of what the clamping force does. The pins are a hardened alloy, and should have 11,000 pound per pin 18-20k in pairs shear strength, just as all 5/16 GM had in that era.. No idea where you got 710 from..... The pins wont ever be the failure point, that cap is far to weak there to overcome the pins failure point, which is exactly why the caps broke in the first place....... That is not cocking breakage on the caps from tightening them down wrong either, they break the entire end off when someone does that.... Those caps were forced down at an angle from crankshaft torsional forces, and the broken side of the cap moved in and back, and broke.... I would bet good money you can see that in the bearing wear on the 3 center mains as well. You are denying evidence, that is right in front of you. By the way, the torsion forces on the mains at 375 hp @ 5250 rpm spike to about 35,000 pounds per main in a 455...... And that is from Pontiac's engineering info from the 455 HO in 1970, written by Skip McCully, the lead engineer of the 455 HO project....... I learned a lot from Skip, including what happened to your main caps on that block....
The 'locator' pins were replaced with roll pins on the 500557 block, making the bottom end weaker. The pins do more than locate the caps during assembly; they help to keep the caps located during use. I would not put broken shit in my engine.