Which Spoke Pattern Should I Choose? | Between Two Wheels Episode #2
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- čas přidán 24. 06. 2024
- Does it matter which spoke pattern you choose? Calvin and Truman discuss the different patterns and what you should keep in mind before you lace up your wheel.
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A great distraction during a long COVID lockdown (in Australia) was building wheels for my old hardtail MTB. All done by following Park Tools videos. Apologies for my belated but most grateful thanks.
A Covid Distraction? Then you must have seen the best....55 minutes at the height czcams.com/video/paaWO01z9HU/video.htmlsi=WVGhLtlsooFdd9YW
It's rare for me to watch a 20min YT video at one go. This is one of them.
My custom wheels from Universal Cycles have 12,000 miles on them since 2018. Still straight as new, Spank Spike Race 33 rims and Hope Pro 4 hubs, DT Swiss Competition spokes with brass nipples.
They are 3 cross.
They've been up and down Pikes Peak Barr trail twice and Mount Elbert 3 times.
Get a wheelset for durability, not for weight. You'll save a lot of money over the years.
I bought a pair of raceface 35mm rims and halo hubs. Just told my guy “make them as strong as possible”. Raced on an ebike for 5 years. Never had to true or tension them. No dents cuz Cushcore with meganorris on top front and rear.
Really enjoyed the comprehensive breakdown of wheel lacing in this video. Some nuggets of wisdom here. Thanks gents!
Both my touring bike and my tandem, have wheels built by my local shop owner, who has since retired, but keeps busy at a another shop a couple of days a week. He's one of the best, anywhere. The touring bike has a 36 spoke front, small flange wheel and a 40 spoke rear. The tandem has a 40 spoke high flange front and a 48 spoke rear. Both have cassette hubs on the rear. In the many years that I've ridden on these wheels, I've never had a broken spoke. I've never paid attention to the cross-pattern, but they are super durable and have taken quite a bit of abuse, over the years. An excellent video, as always.
Make sure you stay on top of truing them and keep them in good shape! Those are one of a kind!
@@SerPurple51 I always keep an eye on them and they've never come out-of-true. I ride almost every day and both bikes have rim brakes, so I can tell if something is out-of-whack. The touring wheels were built in the mid-2000's and the tandem's were built in 2012. He just rebuilt a friend of mine's wheels and did his usual superb job.
48 spoke wheel and hub are quite uncommon these days. Even a 40 spoke wheel is getting harder to find. If the hub, wheel, spokes are high quality. And the wheel builder knows his craft. A 36 spoke wheel/hub should be fine for most riders and situations.
@@spektrumB My touring bike is a 1981 Miyata 1000 and came with the 36 and 40 spoke wheels. When I had the bike upgraded in the early-mid 2000's, the rear freewheel hub was replaced with a 40 spoke tandem rear cassette hub and both wheels were rebuilt. We went with 105 SIS and crank, with a Shimano STX RC rear derailleur. This system has been flawless for me, since then. The tandem received the same treatment around 2012. The old 105 is bullet proof, for sure.
I work on everything on my mtb bikes but I’ve never built a wheel. As always another great video lads!
My favorite to build is 3x with a twist at the 3rd cross. Just fun.
My race wheels I build are just standard 3x.
I also like the "crowd foot" a 2x with a radial up the center. Light and unique.
Hello bonjour , Calvin & Friends is masters in the field 😄 Thank you
Science of wheel building has been debated for 100 years. Fifty years ago, had a tandem that broke spokes on the rear wheel. I removed freewheel and drilled 9 holes in hub and rim and added 9 spokes only on freewheel side. Problem solved. What is the best kind of tandem? Someone else tandem!
Not really debated, more like improved.
I'm convinced tandem riders wear each other's underwear
excellent video
Currently waiting for my spokes for my first build. 24/28 hole 2 cross. Using black and silver stainless spokes. All leading black, all trailing silver. Eventually, I plan on rebuilding my single speed bikes wheels as a snowflake.
Snowflake lacing: the least useful wheel pattern, done by bored kids because they've nothing better to do. Reconsider.
@@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589 funny thing is, that's pretty close to why I am doing it. Just for the looks and like to stay on the odd side of things.
I had my 04 Cannondale R500 sprayed with Cerakote, including the 20 year old carbon fork (oven cure). Put a set of Rolf Prima Vigors (16 and 20 hole paired spokes) and 2x11 R7000 105. I dumped close to $4000 into a 20+ year old $500 bike. I am not worried about doing a snow flake pattern on a $200 single speed with a flip flop hub.
My favorite looking wheels are 28 spokes straight pull with 2 cross on sweet DT's. Everything else look busy!
I still run 32 spokes J bend 3 cross sapim steel spoke on fat rims for the DH bike 😂
Very informative. Would it be beneficial if I opted to have a 3 crosses on my 20 size set of wheels, 36 holes and a 24 set of wheels, 32,36 holes?
Love these videos,so informative 👍how about a video on how to do snowflake pattern or flower pattern and the advantages or disadvantages of each 🙏keep it up 👍
Because only idiots want snowflake wheels, and neither Calvin nor Truman are idiots.
I've seen snowflake and crows foot. Super neat. My favorite personal one is 2:1 lacing patterns for mismatched hub and rim, though I'm no Clyde and those wheels aren't heavy duty.
Every time you force a spoke round a bend, you make it weaker. Didn't you listen to Calvin about spokes bending into nipples at the rim? The only useful bends are those that are at standard crossing points.
Best keep things practical and simple. Cross 3, 36 or 32 hole.
Fully agree
Hello. What do you think about the road bike Campagnolo G3 spoke pattern?
It’s allways bin 3 cross for me 🚲💨
I loathe and despise paired or grouped spoke attachments to rims, with big unsupported arcs between them (I'm looking at you Campagnolo {and their imitators}, with your counter-factual, marketing-driven G3 malarky. GITB). These patterns make the wheel impossible to true accurately, once they've had a knock or two, and the wheel needs a heavier rim to withstand the point loading that the spoke groupings apply. Also: aluminium spokes. Which jeenyus thought those up? I haven't seen a wheel more than 5 years old where one or more nipples haven't seized onto the spoke it's threaded to, meaning that you twist, fatigue then snap the spoke as you attempt to turn the nipple. Or lightweight steel spokes into alloy nipples without proper thread prep compound. Pshaw!
Have good experiences with 28H 2 cross.
i managed to break a SRAM DualDrive 3 hub with 3/2 on 36L crossings, 3 holes in the hub flange frayed. :(
Cuál más recomendable para bicicleta de montaña 29.....tres cruces .o. cuatro.???.
I have a 36h rim snd a 24h hub could i make the 24 work in it and will it run true
Unoccupied spoke holes in the flange make it weak.
The non-drive side usually has lower spoke tension. Most of the time I think it doesn't matter. However, someone suggests I can do 3-cross on the drive side, and 2-cross on the non-drive side. The tension on both side would be closer. Has anyone else tried to build the wheel this way?
If anything it would do the opposite. The spoke will be longer on a 3x and the bracing angle would be ever so slightly reduced. So the drive side would have an even worse bracing angle and the non drive side would have an even better one than normal. In the video we show the Mavic wheel where the drive side is radial and the non driveside is crossed. The goal is to achieve closer bracing angles side to side. Radial driveside, high drive side flange, offset rims, or asymmetrical rear triangles are all ways that companies try to increase driveside bracing angle. Depending on your application you would be better off doing the same pattern on both sides.
Would a greater number of spokes and more crosses be better for a bike that carries a lot of weight?
Most of the wheel strength is in the selection of the rim. More spokes allow the spokes to better share the stress cycles. A 32º wheel will not be "stronger" with 40º but the spokes will last longer.
I have 24-spoke Bontrager wheels which have spoke pairs close together instead of evenly spaced. I tore a spoke out of the rear rim while torquing uphill a few years ago. The hubs are not damaged. I never get motivated to do anything with finding rims and spokes to rebuild those. The bike those wheels were on now has wheels which I built in 2021. They are DT Swiss R500 32-spoke rims, 14 gauge spokes with 3 cross lacing, Deore disc brake hubs.
I'm guessing radial is the weakest option. Do more crosses equal more strength?
Yes, if done right. But it also means more weight and rotational mass
Depends on the application and the parts chosen.
@@komoonkh Depends on parts chosen and application. Much more nuanced than any blanket yes or no can accurately answer.
I have RD-R7000 GS , can i install cassete 12-25T? Is working?
A 12-25T will work great with that derailleur.
Saving this video. Great information. 🛞🛞🛞
What about tied and soldered wheels? Used to see that in the old days
That is a topic for another day. A fun skill that does perhaps nothing but entertain us.
Good for endurance races. A broken spoke stays in the wheel and not flopping about.
Usually this means faster and more responsive, but also not as comfy, and it can potentially put increased stress on the rim.
I tie and glue all my fibre spoked rims. Cuts flex noticeably.
I would love to get your opinion on the old practice of tying the spokes at the final cross. I think it was big for people that did touring and loaded down their bikes for long distance trips.
I have "tied and soldered" a few wheels. It does not do much for durability.
It is great for endurance races. If you break a spoke it does not flop around. It is held in the wheel allowing you to continue.
Now that rim extrusions/mouldings are much stiffer than they used to be 30/40/50 years ago, it's not all that necessary any more.
Lacing and truing bike wheel is dark arts.
you have to be a Jedi
Not "dark art". Just science and math.
Para bicicleta electrica.cual es recomendable.3.cruses.?...o.,4
Cruces..
Escucha!
،Nice
G3 still the strongest for my personal experience.
HAHAHAHA! Try to true one after it's had a serious knock, and you'll soon change your mind.
@@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589
never had the issue. in fact my G3 from campagnolo is the oldest WS i ever own. never gone trueing only change bearing and hub body because wearing from long term usage.
Whatever pattern uses Berd Spokes. Try 'em. You'll never go back.
Can spokes and nipples be reused?
Good question. Possibly, if not badly damaged or rusted. However, spokes are subject a stress cycles, and with enough use will break even with normal use. If you have a newer wheel that has a smashed rim, the spokes are likely fine and can be used. If the spoke has lots of miles, they might only have a bit more left in the stress cycle life.
@@parktoolgood points. Thanks guys
What about mixing a 36 hole hub with a 28 hole rim?
Technically possible, but you will end up with several lengths of spokes. A fun math or CAD problem certainly, but not practical.
17:35 "more neighbours taking the load"
If carrying about optimization and ur performance/results, u need try and feel. U just never know what u like, but knowing is The first step.
there are only two good options 36 3cross and 72 radial