Some Thoughts on Tarot of the Divine
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- I'm having a complicated and visceral reaction to faery tales. Help!
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Every story is going to have characters go through the hero's journey. As someone who has trouble getting the feel for each card (as opposed to memorizing bullet points and lists for each), this deck helped me figure out the spirit of each card. Like the Little Mermaid has her own story, but ultimately it's about someone who doesn't know much about the way the world works but wants to go on adventures anyway. Because of her inexperience, she's naive, easily manipulated, and make stupid mistakes because of an overly-simplified view of the world. That entire spirit captured within her story helped me to understand The Fool. So maybe if you're someone who sees how the cards connect struggles with connecting the cards to yourself, this deck will work for you.
I had written off this deck, but funnily enough this review has convinced me it would be an invaluable addition to my shelf. I’ve never seen anyone give it such a well thought out critical analysis, and now I can’t WAIT to do the same myself. Turns out it’s not just cute pictures and fairytales. It’s tough questions about agency, self governance etc etc.
I wish it had been framed as such by the creator, because I think it can prompt such meaty discussion beyond the usual “this card means this.”
But a huge thank you for this!! I’ve learned so much.
Oh wow thank you for leaving this comment! 😉
Huh, interesting. I was more worried that the cards would not speak to each other, because they are so centered on separate fairy tales and cultures. The first draw I had was 8/C, 10/S, Kg/P - all very intense stories about people who were basically broken completely down before they made huge accomplished legendary gifts to their people. I was really broken up about that 10/S. But isn't that how your supposed to feel with the 10/Swords? and as far as hope, she then becomes the creatures that feed all the people...what a heroic ending. I do understand what you are seeing. It's hard to look at these stories all at once and understand them in the context of the cultures they come from. Pele is pretty nice-washed in the book, but most people don't know or understand the stories and where they come from...She is Fire, destructive, jealous, angry...but also creation. If Pele loves you - you're chosen, your special. La Llorona (YO -rrrO- naH) is a tragic tale, but she is a protective story. I grew up in a culture that invokes her name all the time. The idea being to keep your children safe! don't play in the river beds and arroyos, La Llorona will get you! Where I come from you can hear her wail if you listen! Gods, Goddesses and Legends are there to connect with people and they tend to work better if they have some human qualities...unfortunately humans are pretty shitty a lot of the time. The overwhelming patriarchy in a lot of these stories serves me in that we still overcome all these trials. We are powerful despite being trapped, preyed upon, assumed to be weak, having to take a long walk around all the ego driven, power hungry, destructive forces that have tried to keep us down...but still we are the water of life...they can't do it without us.
I love all your thoughts. A problem I run into is when I film first impressions videos. My initial reactions to decks are always very firey and visceral. I completely see the value in these stories after sitting with them. I had to put this deck away for a bit, but I know it's calling for me to work with it again. 💜
I did not have the same reaction. I am empowered and do not fear men dis-empowering me. I AM. Your choice, of course, but, this deck has much to teach you. Cheers!
that's just the folklores there's a legit guidebook sold separately that has the tarot cards meaning and how it relates to the card ...tarot of the divine handbook.. the book you have is just a storybook if you wanted to actually know about folklores... I guess people been coddled so much by Disney...not every tale is going to have a happy ending.
That just came out a few months ago probably because of complaints like mine. So that’s cool that that handbook exists now.
I have this deck and book. I also was bothered by the way the Nine of Cups was portrayed in the tarot guide book, but the longer story elaborated in a way that showed that he didn’t trick her at all. He disguised himself as a woman to spend time with her in secret after they fell in love. I think they had trouble shortening the stories to fit in the tarot guide book and may have made poor word choices for that.
Reading both the guidebook and the larger book left me even more confused for understandings of many of these stories. I still love the deck and want to research these stories on my own. I agree with you that they must have not known how to translate the stories to the shorter forms, but there are many contradictions too. 🤷♀️
I have never been drawn to this deck. Traditional stories about women are pretty brutal. I hear you 🙏🏻💚
I did read in one of the reviews that the imagery and legends used might be a bit triggering and dark. Other than the art that had me drawn to it the moment I saw it, it's one of the main contributors to why I purchased the deck, I felt like it might be helpful with my shadow working and I've always associated stories and characters with a lot of things ever since I was a child. I didn't have plans in getting the book since I felt like part of the journey was researching those stories on my own, but overall, I think it's still a good review. Reading through decks is all about taking the reader's emotions towards it after all.
I love these added criticisms! I anticipated not enjoying some of the myths and the one you brought up at the beginning makes so much sense. I love every single piece of art in the deck but i also don’t know how to read them in conjunction with each other. Some of the tonal shifts are hard to take. This was such a thoughtful video, thank you! I hope your conclusion to not referr to the larger book helps you reconcile or reframe some of the stories in the tarot.
I think it might. I'm really good at making up my own stories. In time, I might be able to forget the legends, which makes me feel like an irresponsible librarian, but stories can evolve if we let them, right?
I'm glad you liked the video, Casper! 💜
Hi! I was too upset about some of the stories, but it actually made me want to research more about it and I will try to "re-tell" them with a feminist perspective. Also, you can found very interesting info about many of these stories. For example, the real story about Sherezade, the High Priestess, was very different, I read, she actually did a very courageous and intelligent move to prevent hundreds of women being killed by the King. I have a daughter, she's 3 years old, and I will love to tell her some new stories about female empowerment. And I think that this is a small contribution that we can do for future generations. It can seem small but I think that this is how history can be rewritten. Hugs and much love for you from Argentina 🌟💜
Thank you for your thoughts, Marcela! I agree with you and as I'm getting to know the deck, I feel I can get past many of these initial disappointments as I think it is a thoughtful deck.
Wow, you're probably my first viewer from Argentina! That's so cool. Much love back to you!
Also about La Llorona, the story was very old, before colonial times. And I read that actually this woman was a kind of omen for the people, because she was crying on the streets warning her children, aka the native citizens that a massacre was coming, aka colonialism. And then, in catholic times of course, the story change with a moral tone maybe to prevent women of being independent, or whatever, right. Because dah! These tales were told and re told by men and a patriarchal society. So trust your gut, follow your intuition, research, retell. ❤️
@@marce.munioz I love that! Trust your gut and retell these stories how WE see fit! Yes, queen!
I think I would be careful by calling them legends. I would called them stories. I learned that in a Chicano studies class, which our professor was a Mexican native and he found it very offensive calling Native American stories legends.
Oh, thank you for telling me that, Carlos. I hadn't heard that before. Legend does kind of make it sound like old and unknowable or something. I can see why that would be upsetting. Thank you!
It's not per se an offensive term. According to Wikipedia:
"A legend is a genre of folklore that consists of a narrative featuring human actions perceived or believed both by teller and listeners to have taken place within human history. Narratives in this genre may demonstrate human values, and possess certain qualities that give the tale verisimilitude."
Every culture has legends and folk tales. English is not my native language so there is an aspect of the term I'm not aware of, but as I know there is nothing pejorative in calling a story a legend - it just tells us that this is a story that has been told very often.
@@s.h.741 Hi S.H, I understand your point of view, English is not my native language either, but for me to respect the culture and understand the perception, we have to put our selves in their shoes, as A native North American, I find it sad that people want to categorize stories into a type a genre where they don’t belong. This has been happening for a long time. An example of this is calling Quetzalcoatl an Aztec God, when in reality is not. In this culture he is not a God nor a deity. That’s what I was my point.
I feel like this deck is more a work of art than it is useful for tarot as i get the vibe of the many beautiful stories more than what the cars "classically" mean. I think the deck is stunning, the back of the cards is especially wonderful, but i'd rather get this as a deck for display and use as art and education via the guide book + companion book.
This might be how I end up using the deck too. I haven't been reaching for it much for readings. It's a shame because yes those card backs are everything and that cardstock is a dream to shuffle.
I get it. It's hard to look at the history of patriarchy and be ok. I'm the same way with slavery. Thanks for doing this review. I had just ordered this deck and I went ahead and cancelled it. I didn't realize so many stories were like that. My focus is on what is and working to make this better. I don't want to do the mental gymnastics necessary to be ok with these stories.
I never got this deck and I think I would be too overwhelmed by all the stories to be able to concentrate on reading with it. 💜❤️
when I saw this deck I was immediately drawn to it. Yeah, I agree that the separate book doesn’t necessarily compliment some the cards in the best way possible ... but I think researching more about the stories and how they speak to you will really help ! I agree that it can be really confusing though, since I feel as though some of the stories/scenes (specific parts) Yoshi chose to portray can be pretty sexist
It's funny with this deck I don't read the guide book. I do 'straight' RWS meanings. The pictures are gorgeous. The stories are interesting but like you once I start to apply them I get confused🤣😊
Thanks for the in-depth review! After few times going through the flip through and review videos, my feelings about these cards changed. That's why I always watch these reviews before buying. I agreed that those story will affect tarot readings.. 😆😆
That's an awesome review! I mean, it's definitely not sugar coating the product and I really appreciate that you've reviewed the story book with it. I own the deck, but wasn't sure if I would benefit from an... let's say it - additional expense in order to to use it better. The illustrations have such a good vibe about them (not to mention the choice of linen cardstock, superb ♥) and I would like to keep this deck in the 'feel good' drawer, you know? ^^' Anyway, a very unique and valuable perspective, thank you for sharing - loved hearing it!
Stay in the "feel good" space! 😊
I too have this deck and can’t part with it yet. But I also can’t use it in spreads because I can’t look at the cards as a whole in a spread. Maybe I’ll use it for one card pulls in the morning and see if that works, to give me a story to focus on for the day!
I essentially put mine away after that first week or so and haven't reached for it again. The art is gorgeous, but I'm not sure how I'll work with it either. Let me know if you figure her out!
@@MixtressRae I sure will!
I agree with you. It's why I haven't gotten this deck -- even though I do like the artwork, but the legends/myths themselves bum me out. I'm Asian and the two cultures I grew up in weren't very good about empowering women. It took me most of my life to break those mental chains and learn to (for example) be brave enough to stand up for myself instead of withering away & hiding when I'm faced with belligerence or anger from others. I knew those problematic myths you pointed out (Sita, etc) because we were taught them growing up. So even though I like the art work, my visceral reaction was to be repelled by the cards because I recognized a lot of them and knew the legends behind them. So I completely understand you! And we're likely to be one of very few. I dunno, maybe I should be less analytical and just be "oooo pretty pictures hehe" but I can't. And to reiterate what you said, it has everything to do with me and the burdens I carry and nothing to do with Yoshi Yoshitani so this isn't a diss on Yoshi in any shape or form. Just a bummer that I cannot enjoy certain things due to personal experience.
Thank you for your thoughts, PaintedTurtle! I am heartened to hear your story. Tarot is all about visceral reactions, so it makes sense to follow your gut reactions to the imagery. I'm glad to know about these legends I'd never heard of before, but it's also so sad.
That Sita story was the first one that really knocked me down. The imagery to me suggests such strength, but the story seems to be a "stand by your man no matter what" storyline. In many ways, I think Yoshi's art is empowering if you can manage to ignore the legends, but of course if you were told them growing up, you can't ignore that!
I want the book. If you haven’t returned, send it to meeeeee!
I ended up donating it to my library. 😬
Thank you for your review
Thanks a lot for sharing it. I'm waiting for my deck to come, which I personally ordered exactly because of the Russian fairy tale about Vasilisa)) so I'm especially grateful you read this from the book, pronounced correctly the names👌and shared your ideas. Having watched this video I came to the conclusion I don't need the book either😄😄😄
I can't believe I pronounced something right, ha! 💚
I hear what you're saying about this book and deck. I find the deck so beautiful and will definitely keep both it and the book. But going through the stories brought again to the fore for me just how misogynistic pretty much every culture has been all over the world. It's actually pretty depressing. I tend to focus on the RWS meanings of the cards when using them in a spread. But remember that even in the tarot there are a lot of outdated ideas about gender roles and the qualities that are supposedly meant to be "feminine" or "masculine" (e.g., why can't bravery be considered "feminine" or gentleness and nurturing be considered "masculine" traits for instance?). I have connected a lot more to many of the more contemporary tarot decks that have come out recently, with fresh interpretations of the cards and their meanings. I of course go back to certain classics written for instance by Rachel Pollack or Juliet Sharman Burke, but a lot self-reflection tools for spiritual growth that stem from so called "new age" origins have all the same problematic elements and ideologies associated with them as do traditional religious ideas. I think it's really time for a reimagining and re-envisioning of a lot of these modalities. We have to be bold enough to dispose of misogynistic, transphobic, homophobic, racist or ableist messaging in whatever tools we have access to that are meant to be used for our enlightenment.
One other thing I should mention is that almost each of the stories have some kind of intergenerational trauma inherent in them, whether the protagonists are male or female. So child abuse of some kind is ever present. I think you could be right that despite the seemingly cheerful images on many of the cards, knowing the introduction to these stories indicates this deck might indeed be a good one for shadow work.
Totally hear you on this topic! Fairytales and myths are pretty rough on women, not to mention just generally dark in general. Like Sedna for the 10 of swords! Man, that’s rough. Have you ever heard of the podcast Deviant Women? They have a few episodes where they reclaim female mythological figures. They have an episode each on La Llorona, Sedna, and Donkey Skin. Could maybe help in working with these problematic stories?
I have not heard of that podcast. That sounds like exactly what I need! Thank you!
Hey, actually I have not really had this Kind of Bad feeling about the Deck, but if You have a more hopeful, empowering Interpretation please let me know/ Share it with me☺️
I‘d love to have such thing😊
I didn’t end up keeping this one.
If you don't like it, just admit it! It is disgusting to pretend that you are not offending this deck but you actually are.
I love this deck. Got it yesterday and can't put them down 😊 I did some readings for myself and it blew my mind 😮 scary accurate 🤯
Thank you for your review. I received this deck earlier in the week, I didn't get the book but in my initial draws with it I wanted to dig a little deeper so I googled a few of the legends and I couldn't connect the legend of some of the cards with the tarot. The art is lovely and I was looking forward to using it with my Legendary Ladies Oracle....but I'm not sure now. I put in on the shelf and decided to try to work it with later. Thank you,, I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one a little confused by this deck. I'll still try again later because the deck is gorgeous and maybe like you I just need to focus on the tarot guidebook 🤔 I'm just not sure yet.
For me, I think I'll just have to make up a different story to fit the legend? But this is definitely a deck I'll need to spend time getting to know, for sure. She ain't gonna be easy!
Old myths and legends are pretty terrible. Disney changes them all the time.
Well hundreds of years ago…the world was a dark place and very dangerous. They’re all stories to scare and control people or learn something from…
I just got it lol let’s see how the inboxing goes for me!
I agree with you 100% on 9 of cups. Isis too. That bothered me. I actually found quite a few of the myths didn’t line up as well as they could have. They were shoe horned in.
I do like a lot of the art, and the card stock. But I have critiques that grow the longer I work with the deck.
I do think it’s gross that the only Christian story was very localized to Mexico. Pagan and Jewish stories are listed along side fairy tales which felt meh to me.
The book was not good. I regret buying it.
I know this is an old video and I just recently got into tarot, this was my first deck. I didn't do any research on it or enough but I love mythologies and folklore. I love stories and telling stories. But I'm also now having trouble with readings. I was curious if you ended up keeping it or not? Or if you kept it, do you use it or just as a display?
I didn’t keep it, no. It was too distracting for me to use when the mythologies were attached; too much “baggage” for me made it harder to read with. Lots of ppl love this deck though, so trust yourself and how you are feeling about it.
I have this deck and love it. But I didn't buy the "Beneath the moon" book. And I was thinking if I should get it. After watching your video, I don't think I am going to get the book. I didn't read the guide the book either. I guess I am better off not reading it haha. I agree with you, perhaps reading the book would make it difficult to relate with the cards. And I have no clue why Sita was portrayed as the 2 of swords. She was not only strong but also very wise. That said, I still love the artwork. Did you keep it aside or decided to work with it ?
I didn't end up getting along with it, so I gifted to a friend.
i just recently found out about this deck yesterday while scrolling on amazon and i immediately came to youtube to find any reviews about it. i watched a good one by truth in story and i recall having the same feelings about some of the stories as well. the fool card story is the first one i heard where i had an antagonistic feeling towards the story. i too thought that these old stories depict women in a very subservient and one dimensional way. it saddened me to know that women all over the world had to grow up with and integrate these vile and repressive stories into their psyche. that 9 of cups card...at first, i loved seeing it because i actually thought it depicted two women on the card and i wanted to get the deck even more based on that. however, after hearing you read the story, i feel disappointed. :(
i am not sure if i will still get this deck even though i find it stunning and beautiful and the stories do offer a new perspective on reading the tarot. i love the diversity in the deck and the artwork is amazing. i have a few thoughts on this: sometimes when i read books that use the pronoun "he" to stand for everyone...i will just strike that out in my mind (or sometimes literally on the page with a pen) and make it "she" so i feel more empowered or even seen.
another thing is i like how disney retold the story of maleficent and turned her into an empowering woman with her own agency and story to tell. perhaps the same can be done with doing readings with this deck. if i do get the deck, maybe i'll just pretend that that 9 of cups card is a happy one because the woman tricked the man! not saying tricking anyone is great, but if we're going to have this discussion, then it may as well be vice-versa if i am going to get something positive out of it without feeling violated every time i see the card. that's just some ideas running through my head right now. it's early and i still need to have my coffee. oh...one more thing. perhaps as this deck becomes more circulated, more and more women will begin to notice and have the same feelings about how women are portrayed throughout the history of story, and that might spark off some sort of dialogue that seeks to make things better for women in the stories and ideas we tell ourselves or that the world says who we are. thanks for sharing your concerns with us. i felt the same way.
Wow, you nailed what I was trying to say! My current thought is to try to make my own edits, kind of as you suggested. I totally have done that changing he to she thing in books!
This deck is definitely bringing awareness to legends as they are. Like Yoshi maybe wants us to confront our inherent sexism in the stories we've told for millennia.
I'm wondering why the version of Little Mermaid told in the book isn't the one where she turns into an air spirit instead of sea foam, though, because that's a more empowering version of that legend that could have been used. 🤷♀️
Definitely a deck that's making me think!
@@MixtressRae i don't know or even understand if this has anything to do with it, but i've read that yoshi doesn't use pronouns when referring to... to her/him/self (maybe yoshi is non-binary and doesn't like pronouns?) 🤔 perhaps that might explain some things as to the inclusion of female subjugation and lack of agency in some of the selections that were chosen to bring forth as representations of certain female cards and their interpretations. i don't really know... i'm just taking wild guesses. that 9 of cups card you read is very telling about what is seen as acceptable. 🤔😳😒🤨🧐😱😡
@@questwings I don't see Yoshi's inclusion of the myths as endorsements of them, necessarily. They chose relevant myths to each card and that would be a very difficult task! I do think we can choose to "rewrite" the tales as we use the deck...at least I hope I can accomplish that! 😬
@@MixtressRae i agree. i don't necessarily think of it as an endorsement. i do think the myths and tales correspond well with the traditional tarot meanings. i think yoshi did an excellent and outstanding job all around creating this deck and doing the research to even find the back stories. i do wish that the stories weren't so viscerally disturbing to my female sensibilities though. i am pretty sure i will get the deck, and perhaps later, the book as well in the hopes that i will eventually be able to transmute the sense of woman into something more powerful for today's times. i think this is work women usually wind up doing anyway. we work with what we have. i hope the deck does well and i'm eager to see people start reading with it. i think it can help deepen our understanding of traditional tarot meanings. peace and blessings to you. 💖 😊
@@questwings I had that same thought earlier today as I was reading the book! I can't stay away; despite my misgivings, I read the whole thing today! Anyway, the thought about it being traditionally "women's work" to do the best we can with what little we're given. Most of the tales are about women wronged by men and what they do with their cages made by the men around them, while most of the stories about men are women helping them through the stupid shit THEY got themselves into! 😂
Peace also with you, friend! ☮️
I think I will not to read the stories and just use them like Waite-Tarot 😂 I didn't buy the book