Setting up Bass Management in 60 Seconds
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Bass Management is a critical component to getting the best sound out of your surround sound system. In this #short, I show you a basic configuration that works for 90% of most speaker/subwoofer installations to achieve the best bass and overall sound.
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These short 60 second videos are really good, please do more quick guides like these
It would be appreciated a lot
I have mine set on small with a 90hz crossover for all speakers even with large towers that's can hit below 80hz with no problem. Low Frequencies uses alot more power than higher frequencies so I try to hand off as much of the load to my very Powerful Sub as possible. If I'm listening to music and feel like just listening in 2 channel I just use the pure direct mode which overrides the crossover settings so I can make use of my towers full range.
Hi Gene,
It would be great if you could also do a video for the intermediate users on what specs your speakers need to have to use lower crossover points. For example if you have towers that hit 30hz or lower?
Longtime fan, thanks for sharing all the great research.
80hz crossover is a good default setting but of you have big quality towers that can easily hit 40 Hz or below, I like to set the crossover for those towers lower so you are using more of your speaker capabilities, I may go as low as a 50 Hz crossover for towers of they can easily get below 30hz. Then adjust by ear according to make sure you don't lose any chest thump if you are not feeding it enough power. With Legacy Focus SE speakers with dual 12" woofers with a response as low as 18hz, I have my crossovers set at 45 Hz as I think that sounds the best while utilizing more of the Legacy's.
Doesn’t matter how good or how low your speakers go, they cannot do the job better than a decent subwoofer. Just because your mains spec says it can go down to 40hz does not mean it will do it at the same volume as a sub. A sub will play that 40hz note with much more authority. It also has a larger surface area than you mains to move the air.
Don’t take my word for it. Get yourself a umik-1 and run a REW scan of sub and main separately. Then report back and let me know which one can hit 75db+ @ 40hz.
@@ImBatman83 that's not always true, my Legacy's have dual 12" woofers in each tower and they are a little faster than my four 18" subs. It isn't always about how loud the subs are it's how they transition with your speakers. Just think if you had 2 subs and one was a 12" with 200 watts power and the other was an 18" with 2000 watts power, if you have the small sub handle the bass above 100 Hz and switch the the big one below that, the switch from one to the other will happen a lot and you will really notice the difference in bass quality and how it pressurizes your room. You need to find out where the smaller sub blends into the larger sub so the transfer is seamless and you don't know it's happening. For the average tower, that is around 80 Hz and that is why that is the THX recommendation so the average Joe can have good sound, if you have small towers with 5" woofer or bookshelves, you may set the crossover at 100 Hz so the transfer to the sub is seamless, big towers with powerful, quality woofers can sound fantastic down to 20 Hz and if you only listened to jazz, you would not even need a subwoofer, but for movies and some music, you don't want to notice when the bass moves to the woofer so you you adjust your crossover accordingly so your towers still have God headroom and don't sound stressed and then let the sub take over. Towers like this had their mids and woofers designed specifically to work together seamlessly, so let them do that. If 80hz crossover was the be all end all, they would never make highend speaker with the ability to cleanly reproduce below 70 Hz because nobody would buy them because you are only using half of the speakers capability.
Regarding REW, you don't want to see a huge jump in SPL right where the sub takes over and that is basically what your argument is based on. You want that chart to be as flat as possible from 15hz to 15,000 Hz. It has nothing to do with the power of the subwoofer but letting the subwoofer take over where the speakers start to lose db as the frequency goes lower.
The goal is not to sound like the 2006 Honda Civic with a couple subs turned up to 11 that you can hear from 300' away but have no idea what kind of music it is cause it sounds like garbage
@@shaneducholke364 Yeah, you go run do that and report back to him. And don't forget to salute. ;)
@@stevet7487 trust me, he knows and does it himself. You don't think he has $40k towers and cuts their nuts off at 80hz????🤪
@@shaneducholke364 I agree with you. Speaker manufacturers design a speaker to sound great with it's full range. Why spend thousands on speakers only to lop off their bottom end.
I check frequency response with REW for all speakers set to large and pick crossover points based on frequency response curve to get smooth transition from speakers to the subwoofer. Then I switch speakers to Small and check frequency graph again. If needed, adjust crossover point, phase and check again. Repeat until I like the results.
Although 80Hz is good and it is the THX or Dolby standard, in theory, you can go up to 100-120Hz before directionality of the sound kicks in. As such I do find if a speaker is causing distortion trying to get down to the sub's 80Hz crossover point, then raising the level above 80 seems like a fair tradeoff. Some woofers just cannot go much below 100-120 easily. Granted, that may mean needing to have a talk about your other speakers. But, to help on distortion or to not put too much stress on the woofer, or if a woofer just cannot reach that crossover point, there are exceptions to setting it to 80Hz, within reason.
Buy proper speakers that are capable to attach to a HT amp. If you cant afford, then just buy a 2 channel stereo amp and forgwt HT altogether.
Very simple really, horses for courses, they have to match the requirements.
Gene hope you do a full feature walkthrough on that new Yamaha YPAO :) :) :) :) :) :)
Using REW, I realized my ideal crossover setting for my 7.2 channel system is 100HZ.
Update- since getting an amplifier my ideal crossover setting is now 80hz. Haha
Keep testing and learning 🙂👍🏻
I like a crossover of 100hz, it just sounds more pleasing with my Yamaha speakers, I have tried 80hz with it, and I much prefer setting it to 100hz.
See....... this is it, whatever rocks your world and makes YOU happy is great...!
That is what this hobby is all about, and all of these "guides and advice" are not rules, just suggestions to help you get the best from your hifi..... and ultimately YOU choose whats best for your ears and circumstances regarding equipment and room conditions 🙂...
I am glad you are happy 👍🏻
I have 2 Fronts Goldenear Triton Reference wich comes with integrated powered amplifier subwoofers so YES I configured them differently , ran REW EQ wizard through mini dsp to integrate xovers with them also on the each side on the back of my room have 2 supersubs XXL goldenears ... Sounds AWESOME..obiviosulsly had to spend a couple of days taking measurements to get a nice housecurves...60 seconds hehe I wish. It will be very nice of you to make a video on just powered amplifier Front Towers. Thanks
This IS the reason I subbed you some time ago, thank you!
REW yielded better integration and roll-off curves when Marantz AV7705 set my B&W n802’s to Large with dual McIntosh HT-2 subs in different parts of the room with phase adjusted box orientations of them standing on their sides and not down firing.
Im using a set of large cinema speakers with 12” subs as mains. They actually do a hood job of handling the low end. I have a large 1500 watt amp/dual 12” infinity sub cabinet but at the moment Im using the amp for two large jbl speakers for music. One day Ill have two separate rooms for two separate purposes. Ive got 15” drivers near 12” drivers etc and I know things like that can interfere with the sound. I guess at the moment Im more focused on listening to music and the surround setup is ok as is.
Great advice in 60 seconds. Had all my speakers set to small, my K-Horns as well. All settings were also at 80Hz except the K-horns. Klipsch had advised me they could take a crossover down to 32Hz. My Yamaha 9.2 Avantage only allows 10Hz moves so I took the horns down to 40Hz from 80Hz which made a great improvement in sound out of the drivers on the horns. Extra bass is also set to off. Both Subs are working fine, but from time to time have issued a loud BANG! No one seems to know why a sub does this, and it was before I changed the Hz to 40! The bangs had been so loud I was afraid of sub damage. Seems to have abated now, any info or advise on this! Love your show!!!
Cone rattle internally?.... nevwr heard of it describwd as a bang, more of a rattle......
Film the bang noise, upload to utube and add it as a link to this question, also email manufacturer the link and ask them wth this is....
Hope that helps, we need to hear and see it to know what it is....
It's Like asking, i get a tapping noise in my emgine....
Just watch PIXELS, my Yamaha RX-A3070 really came to life, one of the best Atmos sound tracks I've heard.
Jolly good, we are all jealous of your whatever you have's.......
Well Gene...
I don't disagree in that everything in small, crossover at 80 hz is tje easiest way to integrate subs and get decent sound....
But... 🤪
When one have towers, especially with big woofers and good extention, my experience is that the sound is always better when towers are in large with subs in pluss/ extra bass etc. This however is a pain to integrate, but with some effort, MiniDSP and REW, and enough power, it does become better. I have fronts and center as large (they play very good on their own). I find that my room is best with one sub directly behind me, the other one at the middle of the left wall (in reversed polarity). As I said, getting this right, is a real pain, and I have moved everything around at least 50 times before I got things the way I wanted. 🤪
Well, you are right in how you feel. But you will be saving yourself a massive Amp headroom by not sending low frequency to the mains. Amp will have more juice/reserves and may make speakers more dynamic. And your amplification requirements will be a lot lower because you will not need the juice to drive those big woofers in the mains below 80hz.
@@ImBatman83
Yup, I know doing full range demands a lot from the amp, which is why I have seperate amps for L&R (600 watts each), and the center is biamped (was kind of suprised my avrcan do that, but it does, and that gives the center 500 ish watts). Avr is class D, and I feel it manages well. It does not become hot, sound weird or anything, and drives my speakers with ease it seems. My system is a bit older, and by no means expencive or high end. It does rock my hometheater, and my neighbours house, and that is no way near reference level. -30db is usually as loud as I go 😊
Just because a speaker can do something doswnt mean that you let it....
Which of the 2 (your speaker or your sub) can better reproduce the frequency of 70hz????????
Obviously your sub....
Hence irrespective of your mains capabilities you field your best player for the job that needs the best....
Split at 120hz and make it work.....
What about the subwoofer? LFE+main or just LFE? Also. I've heard that I should set my subs LPF at 120Hz to perfectly cross over for 80Hz HPF. Is it always a 40Hz gap if I don't use 80hz?
Update: This may be denon specific, but denon's manuals and Audyssey's people say to always leave the subs crossover at 120Hz, since LFE tracks have content that may be lost if you set it too low. Also, it appears that 2 channel music properly passes below-80Hz-bass onto the sub without your intervention. Some higher end receivers let you set the HPF and LPF per speaker.
If I don't have a bass speaker then I leave the towers large right?
Yes
Me having my cervin Vega's playing 40hrz with my sub along😂😢
Even for 2.1 music system with towers is better 80hz instead of 60hz?
OK, i got my receiver set up at 80Hz. What Hz do I set on my subwooffer and what volume? Also what level of the sub should be set on the receiver? I have a range of -12 to +12
Set to 0db and listen...
You don't want subs too loud or quiet from your mains..... keep testing and listening in 2db incraments untill the "handover" is smooth and seamless.....
Wa-la your system is tuned..... it takes hard work, no golden numbers as all speakers and room acoustics are different...... nobody can say........"set to +4.7284db and your done" you cant come here and expect that.....
Learn more like i and others have to....
Next video: YPAO volume on or off?
I have Yami rxa-3080 (former flagship) and extra bass set to ON. I notice more bass output with this setting. What's the benefit to the OFF position?
Or grossly illiterate, yet you managed to write and ask this question and expect others to do your work for you
The "furkin entitled"......
Hey Gene do have other settings for this receivers to get it sounding better and also did you find the center spread on this receiver also
Would this mean that my speakers would not output bass as much as if I set them to full range? I have full range speakers and I don’t understand why I would set them to small if I want all range sound to come out of them. I set mine to large and then for the bass management I do main+sub. What am I missing here?
You are missing this.....
Your svs 6.5 inch conned towers claim that they can play down to 20hz.... your 18 inch conned subs also claim they can play down to 20hz.....
Which of the 2 will you choose...... a thin guy that can barely lift a wheelbarrow, or a weightlifter to move tour wheelbarrow full of bricks?......
Best put toweres to their best use above 120hz, and subs do beneath 120hz.......
The reason tower specs are given as "capable of doing" 20hz is that if you have no subs, or have a stereo amplifier (not a HT setup) that has not got a sub outlet option, you can still "enjoy" those frequencies, are be it, in a diminished form.....
Like all americans, you saw 20hz and spent your money without any research and understanding 😂😂
Thats why the phrase was created... "a fool and his money are eaisily parted"........
WHY BUY A PLANE WHEN YOU HAVE NO PILOTS LICENCE OR EDUCATION?....
Can you do one going deeper into best way how to sub levels. Extra bass off, gain levels on sub, bass/treble on receiver, sub level, etc. (I have RX-A2070) what’s the best setting to use for day to day adjustment after everything else is set. Extra bass would work but seems lazy
Best setting is to go and learn for yourself.....
Each room and speaker has different circumstances..... and you "entitled" with more money than sense expwct us to give you a golden figure
You once where taught "work makes freedom"..... i suggest you stick to that wise motto and do the work to learn the answer, which will free you feom this problem
You cant "fast track" an education....
@@mohammedisaa9952 these guys are always open to ideas for more content. I’ve prob got over 200 hours in REW tuning stereo home, and car systems mine and others. All my stuff is budget and sounds better than 99% people. Who the F*ck are you comin at me.
I just ordered the Yamaha RX-A4A together with two REL T7X subs. I have large floorstanding loudspeakers in the front. As you probably know about REL subs, they always advise to hook up the high level input to the main speakers and set this up first. Then they say to hook up the LFE input, disconnect the high level input and run the setup procedure on the receiver. After this they connect the high level and lfe input to the subs. Does this sound correct or do you have any other advice for this setup ? Do you set the front speaker to large or small in this case ?
Depends on what your speakers are...... if their small, go small for bookshelves, if good towers choose either full or small and lower the crossover points to 60 or less.....
Your aiming for a smooth "handoff" from 1 to the other..... and only your ears and patiants in testing will determin this.....
People expect 1 golden value to solve all of their problems...... people expect plug and play solution's but life is not like that.......
Example, change a large piece of furniture in your room, add acouple of paintings, change a rugg, move a chair or sofar, and all of your values have changed.........
How many cones in your speakers, what are their frequency responces, their db outputs??????
How far can a "Car" travel on 1 gallon of fuel?........ whats its shape, engine size, is it going up or down hill, is the wind blowing or pushing and at what speed?????
You might as well have asked, "what colour is the sky"....... i think you should watch more videos, learn considerably more and come back, you may even learn the answer to your question....
THERES NO QUICK FIX FOR A FORMAL EDUCATION, AND TO EXPECT ONE HIGHLIGHTS THAT PERSONS NEED FOR ONE. (EDUCATION).
Kef r11 lovely bass but having 2 subs that deep lower once I turn them on I lose bass somewhere between subs and kef. Cross 60Hz(as the kef play awesome)
The only reason I set my Klipsch towers to Large is it helps being the dialog up from my center which is below tv. I do worry when I’m really cranking em though. When on small I don’t worry as much🤷
Put an angled wedge under your center to aim it at your head and then turn up the center. My receiver set my center to -12db but I eventually settled on 0db
Don't turn your center up. It completely messes up the frontal soundfield. Try to relocate center or get a better speaker.
@@arikononen4022No I wasn’t going to. I have a nice matching Klipsch center only 3 inches under tv. I only sit 10 feet from my LCD Tv. I run the center +1db but that’s nothing. It’s kind of the nature of the beast but I do remember having a Sony receiver once which had a center raise function. Yamaha doesn’t. I think Sony with the A90j have speakers inputs is only way to get good dialogue direction. And none of us would use it even if we had it. Maybe someday, they’ll make that work. Would add so much to the tv though to fit a 700 dollar center in the tv😄
If its the nature of the beast, why complain, you were told to change it, yet you refuse eventhough the problem continues......
Enjoy your problem then, and stop bitching
hi
I have mine set on large end 80 Hz whit extra bass on, (two channel music klipsch rp-8000f).
grz from Belgium
Ben.
Hey Gene do you where to find the bitrate information on these units
? What the hell kind of question is this
The amount of americans with either 0 or -0% of an education is mind blowing.....
i have the 9080x defiitives for fronts plus i have 2 subs but your sayig to turn them the bass off ??
YES
........
go learn why......
@@mohammedisaa9952 how do I learn how send me a link
I believe Gene is right, but it feels so wrong to set my towers to small 😳.
When people like us start looking at actual large speakers ($$$$$$$$), only then you we realize that no, our towers really aren't very big.
Lol, don’t worry, I used to feel the same way. Small is ok for tower speakers integrated with subs. He is not asking you to select small for your manhood. 😂
@Wayfaerer not true, the difference between small and large is the crossover slope
Recalibrated with audyssey that advised 40hz for all 5 speakers. Adjusted it to 80hz (thx). Before I had the front speakers on full range. Now the bass is much better. I think it's very hard to get the same frequency from both front speakers and subwoofer right. In my case some frequencies got too loud, others almost disappeared. Now they sound nicely balanced. Speakers to small, 80hz.. did work for me.
I have a denon avr x2300w. When i use the remote app on ios. In audio why is subwoofer always toggle off? It's like i have to always turn it on to get bass
Ask them?......
Luckily if you have a Denon, they got rid of the lame small/large terninology that confuses people.
Please help I got a Denon a/v receiver it has a set up menu like the receiver in this video I got the speaker set up just like that and it’s great but I’m lost when it comes to the analog digital feed (I’m wired up right when I can get it on it rocks ) rename sources I got it used so it’s set to the previous owners equipment ps2 blue ray dish tv I’m so lost I’m not explaining this right but if anyone understands help
READ THE MANUAL it can be downloaded from the "internet"......
Who needs help managing bass? I don't! I go full send. It's all or nothing go big or go home! If I don't look like Marty mcfly in front of the guitar Amp in back to the future then there isn't any reason to have my speakers on!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
🤣
@@vancybergoth 🤣🤣🤣
Send it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Im glad that your system is so missalighned your even capable of making anything out..... just turn up the watts and fk everyone else ey?
"Living the american dream"..... hoo rar.....
My surround’s and atmos roll off around 100-120hz, still set them to 80hz?
No set them higher
Like Chris said, set them higher. They can’t play that 80 -100 hz as loud as you sub may. Take the 80hz advice as a good starting point but you need to assess the capabilities of your hardware and adjust accordingly.
Them crappy atmos ceiling speakers people are buying nowadays, are no better than car speakers were like back in the 70's........
If you want decent atmos, buy modern 3 way oval car speakers......
Modern crappy atmos speakers will be lucky to go down to 150hz....... consider the specs of the worst ever bookshelves ever made.