The 4 "P"s of DOOM's Amazing Combat
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
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A DOOM Eternal combat encounter might only last five minutes, but they’re five, utterly intense minutes: filled with quick movement, smart decision making, and more. In this episode of GMTK, I’m going to break down just one fight in the game to see how it works, and how it makes players act.
Spoiler Warnings
This video shows a combat encounter from the game's 11th level, Nekravol Part II, and so may spoil some weapons and enemies from the latter part of the game. No major story spoilers are included.
Games shown in this episode (in order of appearance)
DOOM Eternal (id Software, 2020)
DOOM (id Software, 2016)
BioShock Infinite (Irrational Games, 2013)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (Infinity Ward, 2019)
Far Cry 5 (Ubisoft Montreal, 2018)
Gears 5 (The Coalition, 2019)
Music used in this episode
DOOM Eternal soundtrack - Mick Gordon
Divider - Chris Zabriskie (chriszabriskie.bandcamp.com/a...)
Contribute translated subtitles - amara.org/v/C3BDu/ - Hry
One quote I thought summed it pretty well for me:
DOOM 2016 makes you feel like a badass
DOOM ETERNAL forces you to be one
Very true, the ressources management is pretty tough. Once you're in the loop, it's good, but you gotta work to get there. Also some pieces of level design feel so superfluous, like overly simple or overly complicated platforming sections, and don't get me started on the agressives tutoriels that spoil you ennemies before you even see them.
Doom 2016 is fun for everyone , while doom eternal forces you to learn the Game. I think its a much better game design overall that more franchises should push for
@@LOofoke True. the platforming is probably the only thing I dislike about Doom Eternal. Other than that, its a 9/10 game for me.
@@shaheryarking I'd agree, and I think it would be better if it automatically turned off tutorials for ultra violence, so you have to actually put in the work.
@@evanjohnson2658 yeah , but i think for non experienced players it might lead to alot of frustration early on.
that is why they left tutorials on by default in settings. Its alot to do with the fact that people would pick harder difficulties and later on just complain about the game rather than try to push through it and get better. Sekiro and some other games have shown how people can complain alot about difficulty , so it was a safe choice by the Id team i guess
Anatomy of a doom eternal fight: Walk into room, hear mick gordons god tier soundtrack, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA,
Look at large number of corpses surrounding you and laugh.
And them the corpses disappear...lol
Doom eternal is incredible btw
This is so accurate lol
@@junpei6180 if only the broken bodies of the demons stayed in the arena, i would love to see an arena filled with dead demons
@@joppiseni3710 me too
But it would probably consume too much VRAM I think...
>look at large number of corpses
Hahahaha not without a mod
6:34 “Choose the perfect moment to fire your get out of jail free cards, like the BFG”
Proceeds to shoot BFG directly at an imp
hurt my souls
Looks like he was trying to hit the Hell Baron, but controller...
@@adamcomerford8502
Using a controller is no excuse for shitty aim.
@@orionlax626 pretty good one tho
Ah yes the priority on the battlefield, the terrifying imp
* health is low *
most shooters: "AHHh i neeed a medkit!"
DOOM: * Gets angrier *
A good sum up of the gameplay loop
in codm i just run balls deep into the enemy
lead, lead!!!!! dr-h LEAD!
no no, hes got a point
Ultrakill: *parry their attacks with bare fist for style points and healing to full or just shower in their blood*
To answer the recurring question about playing with a controller - I unfortunately have repetitive strain injury in my wrists, which makes playing fast-paced games on keyboard and mouse really uncomfortable - so I stick with controllers! My days of playing Quake 3 on KBM are well behind me!
Game Maker's Toolkit this game plays excellently with a controller. i found that mapping L1 to jump, L3 to dash and R1 to the weapon wheel completely transforms the game to the extent that I wonder if it would have received even better critical reception if this were the default. not being able to aim while jumping or dashing is insanity!
Sad to hear, i always wondered if you would tackle some old arenashooters. Plenty of games to enjoy your commentary on though!
hope it doesn't hurt and that you get better soon
well, sucks for you cause although the game is playable with a controller, it loses so much of it's ebb and flow
Well thats sad to hear , i have had some lower back strains and its not fun. But i really think that with a controller this game loses about 30 to 40 percent of what makes it special and people are missing out on it
doom 2016 encounters are much more vanilla compared to this one and having multiple weapon inputs with a touch of a button , plus mapping the flame belch and equiment grenades to say the additional buttons on a gaming mouse , lead to some exhilarating combat encounters and exceptional control of pace as well
I would like to get you started on the Marauder.
+1 as it's perhaps THE most divisive character in Doom at this point. Would be interesting to hear GMTK's view on it.
Once you get the faster weapon swap upgrade, and juggle with Ballista/ Super Shotty, you can end him in 2 or 3 green light rounds. I don't have a problem with them on Nightmare for instance.
In my opinion it's not the enemy design that bothers me, it's the health pool, which is about the size of the Hell Barron and above.
Shoot him once when the eyes flash, then chain stagger with super shotty to the back. Trivializes the encounter.
@@jorionedwards IMO it's not a problem that he can't be beaten, or that he's too hard - it's a problem that he can only be beaten in a very specific way. The game effectively takes away most of your kit. The rest of the game (and its predecessor) treats combat as a canvas for you to get creative on, and then this guy just goes "no, you have to dodge and wait for me to expose my flashing weak point". He (and the gladiator, and somewhat Khan Maykr) don't feel like they fit in.
The artificial invulnerability makes this a frustrating enemy. If you attack at the wrong moment, that instant shield pops out of nowhere with perfect reaction time. You can't even damage him from behind like the pinky demons. There is only one specific instruction to kill him, and it's a very boring one.
If I want to deal damage to him, I have to wait at exactly 10m range, ignore all other monsters that are pummeling me and focus on him completely, then hope he does his green flash attack. Only the ballista and supershotgun standard attacks work. Everything else is too slow or doesn't do enough burst damage.
This guy deserves a re-design. He's the most boring enemy in the game.
In the words of Hugo Martin himself:
"I mean it is a thinking man’s action game...We’re not just gonna hand you that power fantasy without you earning it. I mean, you got to learn all those metas."
Going back through Eternal and stomping combat encounters that gave me a hard time is one of the more satisfying gaming experiences I've ever had.
That man has OD'd on his own farts.
@Jay marlin the POINT of the low ammo is to make it so that people have to resource manage, the game is strategy-based, doom 2016 was TOO easy, it handed you a win essentially, the solution to all problems was a super shotgun to the chest and the only reason to use other weapons was because you wanted the variance, not because they mechanics encouraged you to do so.
I think doom eternal was a MASSIVE upgrade from 2016, the strategy added whole new layers to combat that made it WAY more fun.
@Jay marlin I get that, it just infuriates me that the game is being criticised for the stubborn players who refuse to learn new mechanics and are stuck in the mindset that it has to be like doom 2016
@Jay marlin I know criticism is good, I'm just saying I don;t think most of the criticism is warranted, and as you said, completely subjective, it's like the game reviewers complaining about sekiro or darksouls because its too hard, no one takes them seriously because they can't be bothered to put any more than 2 hours of playtime into it and learn the systems, they want a victory handed to them
What's great in almost every encounter in DOOM 16 and ETERNAL is the feeling after 2 new waves of enemies where you're thinking "oh come on, more of them?" But after you finish further waves you're left asking "was that the last one already?"
Exactly, lol. You get completely sucked into it
Consider this video a celebration of GMTK (almost) reaching a whopping 800,000 subscribers! Thanks so much for your support! Consider switching the video to 1080p to see the details in all their gory glory.
Oh, and shhhh... School of Stealth will return as the next video on this channel.
Thank you so much Mark. I was thinking you should should be on MasterClass but then I remembered you already have one! And it's on youtube! And it's FREE!
You're the best
On track to hit a million this year - exciting!
I like that the news about School of Stealth is dropped in a non-pinned (stealth) comment.
Congratulations, these videos are amazing
Yay
"toxic soul juice" is a scientific term
Acid??
One of the official names for Apolemia uvaria is "long stringy stingy thingy," so it's not far off XD
well if they weren't toxic gamers, they wouldn't be in hell
@@ZachHixsonTutorials Just googled it and you are actually fucking correct. Long Stringy Stingy Thingy is one of the names for the Apolemia Uvaria.
Scientists are a bunch of nerds, I swear.
I loved them both but eternal notched the speed up. It did leave me having to play ultra conservative to try and find a zombie to punch for health or chainsaw for ammo though, both of which also stopped all the combat, making them the safe choice to pick if a missile barrage was coming in or there was a swarm of enemies around a couple of staggered. Also. The marauder was fine! Just shoot his feet with sticky bombs from the shotgun!
When I started playing Doom Eternal, I immediately set the difficulty to Ultra-Violence to give myself a good challenge, but still be fair. It was instead brutal and unforgiving, especially ammo, which depletes extremely quickly, and I was almost frustrated enough to lower the difficulty.
Until I realized two things. The last charge of the chainsaw regenerates, and zombies constantly respawn in arenas. This means that if you can just find the time, there are infinite resources to be gained in any arena. Flame belch for armour, blood punch and glory kill for health, and chainsaw for ammo. This system of resource management at first feels like a chore, but once you get it to flow, it just becomes another mechanic.
I really disagree with your idea of the weapons and enemy weaknesses. The example of cacodemons is true to an extent; the best weapon to kill them quickly is the grenade launcher. But this is really only true early on. Once you have your full arsenal, the balista is generally a better choice, but they can be just as easily handled with the chaingun or super shotgun.
Enemy weaknesses just mean that against a single enemy, perfect play exists. The whole point of the game is to throw enough stuff at you that doing everything the most efficient is just not possible.
Every weapon has multiple purposes, and every enemy has a weakness that can be exploited in multiple ways. The mancubus can have its guns blown off with the cannon's aimed shot, but also the grenade launcher. Same with the revenant's missiles. You can also blow them off with the plasma rifle's heat blast, or well aimed missiles. The chaingun deals damage really quickly, but is ammo intensive, so its best to use on big demons that need to die quickly. It can also be used to deal with lesser demons if you need to get lots of armor from flame belch RIGHT NOW. The super shotgun is probably the best designed weapon in the whole game. Its meat hook can be used offensively to get you close to a high priority target to get a full damage blast off, or it can be used defensively to pull you away from a big nasty towards a zombie to replenish you resources. Once you upgrade it, and the meat hook can regenerate armor, the choice becomes even more nuanced. Suddenly hooking right into a Baron of Hell or an Archvile isn't crazy, because you'll get some much needed armor from the first blast.
Doom Eternal is a panic simulator. It forces you to constantly put out fires, which means managing multiple systems and changing priorities. The constant feeling that you're one step away from complete disaster is what is so enthralling. It's a lot like Starcraft in that way, where there are just too many things going on to ever play perfectly. All you can do is follow the gameplay loop best you can, and readjust priorities to make it through.
yeah. I've also noticed that playing the game on the higher difficulties really lets the new additions and changes to the gameplay in Eternal come into their own. If you aren't being constantly challeged by the game your not really getting the full experience.
I haven't got past the "chore" feel of it. I'm using infinite ammo on my first playthrough... I just don't find it fun to be missing ammo, especially for those secret challenge missions - I find it absolutely crucial to have max rocket ammo. I'm also doing all the collectibles, so that doesn't help.
@@afatchimp You can't treat the chainsaw like a special item. It's a tool just like every gun. Even if you need ammo for one or two weapons, just chainsaw a zombie and refill. The only thing wasted is a bit of time waiting for it to recharge. Switching guns often is also crucial, but sometimes you just need the super shotgun in a fight, so get sawing and don't sweat it.
@@Spec49423 The interesting thing is that I dislike using the chainsaw as often as the game wants me to. The sweet spot for me would be a higher ammo capacity, and heck, a lot more ammo dropped per chainsaw kill.
On my play through on ultra violence, the enemy weaknesses felt like a shopping list. Shoot the mancubus cannons. Pop a grenade into cacodemon. Shoot revenent launchers. I would usually prioritize these things first. It pauses the games. This of course only applies when you walk into a room. After the second or third wave this logic fails and the fun of the weapon weaknesses is shown and it adds to the combat rather than pausing it. So overall I like the weapon weaknesses its just that you can make them not fun by optimising it too much.
The idea that “you can find yourself spending more time patching up your resources than slaying demons” doesn’t really vibe with me. One of the best parts of this game is that if you need to get more resources, you just need to keep killing demons. It’s the same activity, you’re not really trading time spent on one for the other.
It's also an absolutely necessary break in the action on the higher difficulties.
It's about HOW you kill demons though. I personally don't like watching the same 3 animations 20 times in a row just because the game wants me to constantly be in the demon's faces with glory kills. Granted the whole system is neigh unavoidable since the new Doom games trade the classic map layouts for more linear ones with action bubbles which makes backtracking impossible and kinda eliminates most other approaches but to me it just feels really awkward that way.
In Doom 1 and 2 you felt badass because you could quickly strafe around enemies, dodging their rather "slow" projectiles, prioritizing hitscan demons like a shotgun guy/chaingunner and fat damage dealers like the Mancubus while in the new titles it's more about the flow that is heavily reliant on that whole drop system since otherwise not even the basic enemies will drop ammo like they used to. Oddly enough for me it doesn't feel much like a real flow that way just because it boils down to "low on ammo" -> "search for Zombie/Imp" -> "pray they get staggered" -> "press button" -> "watch animation" -> "continue shooting" -> "repeat".
It's a more CQC-oriented system which I can personally see others loving and I that's great but for me personally it's more tedious than anything.
@@chiiku4639 ive never played doom eternal but from what ive seen its very repititive, the same encounters for like 10+ hours
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Play it and make that opinion then
Diadomergaming555 you are very, very wrong. Ive played this game 100% like 10 times. Theres always room to be better.
I adored the ammo reduction because it actually made weapon swapping important instead of just super shotgunning everything, having resources be infinite and on demand also made it so that running out is always your own fault.
Archiville being so demanding was fine because he was so uncommon, it made it an encounter more about avoiding everything while trying to deal with this one guy which was a good change of pace as long as it was clear what was happening.
I used to be on team fuck Marrauder but after learning how to deal with him he's become one of my favourite demons because he is so simple to deal with, its literally just kill all demons in the area while running -> wait for him to attack you -> ballista ssg ballista x2
Not the first time one of his "points" in one of these videos is just "this is hard and I am upset the game makes me get better"
The Marauder and Archvile are two of the best demons in the game. Every single Demon is "How do I kill these demons in the proper order?", but with these two it's "How do I stop this/these demon/s from killing me?". They are the only two huge threats in this game that actively fuck you over and require 100% of your attention and I LOVE that. The better you get at the game, the more you appreciate them.
The Archvile is also a perfect evolution from Doom 2's Archvile. It's perfect.
I agree the ammo reduction is the best decision ID made, you could finish 2016 without ever using some of the weapons it had (barely used chaingun and super in 2016), Eternal makes you use everything.
Same thing happened with me and Marauder, but I think the thing that ruined it for many people was the guide, the guide was objectively wrong, you are supposed to run away and bait his attack, not stand at midrange.
Haven's bought the game but I hear that you get unlimited ammo from challenges as a reward, so I don't know why some complaining.
@@JWalters388 It's a cheat code you can unlock, so not considered a valid option by many.
The Archvile being so particularly dangerous is him fufulling his intended role. in The Classic Doom games , the Archvile had one of the most thoughtful and deliberate designs. In a game already pretty free of redundancies. All other demons were specifically programmed to never infight the archvile. And if they do aggro him he will just revive them anyway after killing them. A single enemy eliminated all the usefullness of infighting. You had to make him a priority and get aggressive against him or else no prgress can be made. And yet the Archvile was dangerous on it's own as long as it had line of sight. You had to move quickly with consideration for your environment. He existed as a counter against normal player strategies. An utter bastard of an enemy design but that's exactly the point. Doom Eternal continues taht deliberate purpose as he will continue to make your life hell unless you can chase him down and interrupt his spawning. This is probably why Doom 2016 replaced him with the Summoner. 2016 never wanted to be that player unfriendly so it gave a new enemy a similar role without the infamy. Eternal on the other hand always wanted to be a more intense and challenging game and further call back to the series roots. It brought back the enemy that would most easily create that feeling.
Doom 2016 was never really challenging enough for choices to matter. Eternal wants to be the unfiltered id game but reflects the intense side of that philosophy. Constant switching of weapons and a concern with resources actually was a big part of many classic shooters. Eternal brought that back in a different way. Zeroing in the constantly moving agression interpretation. The deliberate enemy behavior is called back to with Eternal's greater depth of player interaction with the enemies. While it does push even further into arena style combat encounters, Eternal is the greatest evocation of the Classic Doom impression. Doom 2016 felt like developers hedging their bets and trying to appeal to as many people as possible. This can be seen in the visual design as well. Eternal is them spurred on by success to be more confident in what they want the game to be and more genuinely calling back to the design of Classic Doom.
Eternal really is incredible man. Love it so much
yeah, exactly. i dont understand "heres two examples of things who upend that priority list" as a bad thing. if someone said "here are two huge gamechangers that increase the intensity of the fight and make you think differently" i would say "damn, that sounds good."
same with the "you feel like youre regaining your resources instead of slaying demons" line. you literally regain your resources BY slaying demons, theres no and/or. they are the same act.
@@tdtbaa exactly. "Oh man I can't shoot this demon to kill it so chainsawing it in half is not killing it"
+ the plasma rifle design
-in 2016, it looked like Doom 3.
-in Eternal... it exactly looked the original in Doom 1
I disagree, first of all, there is no infighting in practice in Doom Eternal, and the enemies that you have to jump past everything to reach, (totem an arch-vile) are not very fun to play against.
I'd argue that the super-limited ammo capacity is in fact an attempt at a tutorial, constantly trying to re-enforce this idea that, if you want to survive, you need to use your *entire* arsenal. You can't pick favourites and use just one weapon, because that'll get you killed. By giving the player reduced ammo capacity in the early game, you force the player to swap weapons constantly and re-enforce this by giving different enemies weaknesses to certain weapons - you build a positive feedback loop wherein changing weapons arguably makes the player more likely to win the fight. I've noticed in a lot of gameplay that those who struggle with the game tend to be those who haven't learned this yet, especially with regards to the ice bombs and frag grenade launchers - you kind of need to learn how useful these things are by yourself.
Exactly! The low ammo capacity was my favorite thing about eternal. In every other shooter I only use a fraction of the weapons, but in eternal I used every weapon equally
I feel like the plasma canon is the most overpowered, i would calculate the ammo depending on how much demons i can kill with a full clip. I found the plasma has too much ammo and the plasma wave using no ammo makes it even more OP. And i feel the nerfed the double barrel too much, having only 11 shots is laughable, it always Overkills weak demons so you can't glory kill them. Personally i would add a few more shells to shotgun and nerf the plasma rifle. Also the ballista ain't got shit on the gauss gun, but that was kind of OP in 2016
I absolutely agree with this. In Doom 2016 it was really easy to just use the super shotgun and blast my way through everything. Eternal is the antithesis of that mental mentality
the ice bomb and frag grenade's semi long recharge times but extensive upgrades gave you more tools at your arsenal than just weapons, forcing you to manage not only ammunition but time. really nice addition imo
But Doomslayer see this situation like this:
* Step 1 - RIP!
* Step 2 - TEAR!
* Step 3 - REPEAT 1 AND 2 UNTIL IT"S DONE!
I’d love to see this become a series. Not specifically about DOOM Eternal, just games in general. Encounters are one of the things I find most interesting about game design.
Halo would be ideal for this.
I love games with this kind of decision-making and would really enjoy more analyses of interesting encounters. I find RE4, RE5 (especially Mercenaries), Evil Within 1, and Metal Gear Rising really do this for me.
Rob Taylor I have high hopes for Halo Infinite
Duke nukem comeback?????????
Spawn logic (and overall gameplay loop) for Deep Rock Galactic would be epic. I imagine it would be similar to Left 4 Dead's AI Director.
I don’t think I can go back to Doom 2016. The movement of Eternal is too enjoyable to move around in. The dash is so wonderful for any combat encounter. I also much prefer the resource management and weapon switching in Eternal. In 2016, I don’t think I ever touched the Gauss Cannon. I just didn’t use it because I liked my other weapons more. In eternal, I definitely had to learn how to use the Ballista and every single weapon and I think I came out much happier for it. It really makes you feel like a master of weaponry. Love the video, Mark!!
LiL Frailecillo I tottally get where your coming from but it’s intresting how different people have different gaming experiences, cause I never touched the ballista but loved the Gauss cannon😂
@@syntheticreality549 The Siege mode was so broken though. And the infinite ammo rune was bonkers as well.
Azuma I can see that. But we can both agree that the meat hook was a great addition to the SS🤟🤟
if you touched the gauss cannon you would have found an extrimely unbalanved weapon that trivializes every single encounter once upgraded
Wait really? I got the total opposite reaction. The Gauss cannon seemed so op to me I even felt bad using it, like I was cheating
Me: i need to use a variety of weapons to efficie-
My brain: SUPER SHOTGUN
"You can find yourself patching up your resources more than slaying demons."
You do know that you have to slay demons to patch up your resources most of the time, right?
I'm supposed to be working, Mark.
"resource management puts the demon-slaying on hold"
- Refills resources by killing a demon in one of the most grotesque ways allowed in a video game...
Refilling your resources, particularly Glory Kills and Chainsaw are effectively 2 second cutscenes where you have no control over the action. Sitting still for 2 seconds might actually kill you otherwise. This is why it puts demon slaying on hold, it a 2 second cutscene where nothing else happens, you just watch an animation then continue the fight.
@@SorinPetrov Sure doesn't *feel* like two seconds.
Sorin Petrov I mean, sure, but it’s two seconds. It doesn’t kill the pace nearly to the degree you’re making it sound.
@@brigidtheirish try it in multiplayer mode when the slayer is immune to all damage and you're just sitting there looking at him. Feels a lot longer than 2 seconds then.
@@mr.cup6yearsago211 I'm just explaining what GMTK meant by that in response to the comment, I personally don't feel that it's that disruptive to the pace.
Another thing I noticed in Doom Eternal is that it stepped back from the stragetic design of enemies.
In Doom 2016 enemies had very set behaviours they adhered to. Imp's were ranged combatants and they would only melee if you got too close, then try to get distance on you again. Revenants were similar in design as were many other ranged units. This meant that you could properly prioritize based on where every Demon was and what they do. However in Doom Eternal you can find Imp's and Revenants dashing across half a corridor to melee you. Basically all enemies are now melee, some of which happen to have ranged attacks as well and take a moment longer to get into melee range compared to more melee oriented Demons. This means that there is much less choice in who to attack first compared to Doom 2016 as everything is out to rip you with their bare hands.
This causes all kinds of problems with the rest of the design. It's great that you are more often doing glorykills (but they reduced the amount of glorykill variations?!?), chainsawing through enemies and using flame belch for armor. But while you are glory-killing every single enemy on-screen and off-screen will be gathering around you. At lower difficulties that isn't a problem, but when you play at Nightmare and an Imp+Gargoyle instantly melee you the moment your Glorykill ends and as you dash away backwards you find two more demons have closed in and are blocking your path. This means that Glorykills and Chainsawing can't be done as on-the-fly as in the previous game as you have to know all the time where every enemy is, even during Glorykills when you can't see if they are gathering behind you or not.
Dashing into two non-fodder Demons, even ranged one's, means they can melee you from fully upgraded health&armor to an inch of your life in one go. Basically the "faster glorykills" rune is mandatory for higher difficulties, but that still doesn't protect you from the slow chainsaw kills forcing you to single out a Zombie at the other end of the stage and dash there ASAP so the other demons don't have time to surround you.
Another problem is the chainsaw. I rarely chainsawed enemies in Doom 2016, but I did chainsaw more large enemies than I've done in 1 and a half playthrough of Doom Eternal (which was said to be twice as long as Doom 2016 yet I cleared it in about 2 hours less time than Doom 2016?). This because you always need ammo and there aren't enough fuel pickups around. You'll spend most of your time unable to chainsaw large enemies, especially since Doom Eternal changed enemies that used to take 2 fuel and made every one of those take 3 fuel instead. When you CAN chainsaw large enemies you usually have full ammo and don't need it yet. You are also trained to think that you can't chainsaw large enemies because you never have the fuel to actually pull it off.
They could have prevented this. Imagine if enemies required less fuel the more you damage them. This gives you the ability to chainsaw kill any staggered enemy with 1 fuel, which gives you the choice between a Glorykill for health or a chainsaw kill for ammo on larger enemies as well without players easily bypassing the fight with this enemy.
Don't get me wrong, for every step backwards Doom Eternal also takes a step forwards in it's design so overall it's still as good as it's predecessor, which is awesome as all hell (heh). It's just that I don't understand why some of these steps back were taken at all.
The ability to derive everything you need from any enemy makes Doom Eternal's combat notably better. You never have to hunt for a pickup, or backtrack to make sure you nabbed all the goodies. I just miss the gauss cannon. The ballista is not as satisfying. Also I liked the dark, sciencey feel of Doom 2016 a little bit more than the mystical feel of Doom Eternal. But, I do like the lore of the new one. It picked up surprisingly well where the last game left off. Wishing we got more demon speeches on audiobook, though. "In the first age..."
the gauss cannon was unballanced as all hell imo
especially the charged shot
ultra nightmare- the only thing it didnt 1 shot was the baron, and you only need to slap it once to get the glory kill
@@alfonsocyrusjoshua9551 The unbalanced weapons and mods is part of why weaknesses and whatnot were implemented, to incentivize switching up weapons to fit the encounter instead of just having catch-all loadouts.
I don't like the Arbalest at all. I mostly used the Blade mod and combo'd it with ice bomb to buy charge-up time. Not a bad combo, but I'm no ultra nightmare player, so I can't give any strat much weight beyond "it's fun," which it is, lol.
two words, DESTROYER BLADE
"angry pinball" the accuracy
Doom 2016: Angry pinball
Doom Eternal: Angry Pinball *_on fire_*
I honestly think that Doom Eternal did it best because it gave you more things to focus on. The destructible enemy parts are something you have to focus on right away, in order to not get destroyed. Everything is fast and to compensate they made you fast with the amazing dash ability. I will agree that the arch-vile was more annoying than fun but I loved figuring out the marauder. The marauder felt like the dance you have to do in a souls game but with guns now. The first encounter was frustrating but when you keep seeing him towards the end of the game, I loved waiting for that brief window to blast him in the face. Excellent video Mark and I would love to hear what you thought about the new Ori game!
the weaknesses aren't even the best path to kill any of the monsters. the only demon i exploited the weakness on purpose was cacos. the rest died much faster by just straight killing them.
@@GraveUypo On the other hand, hitting weak points is a good way to drastically reduce the threat level of a major enemy when you otherwise don't have the resources or attention window to deal with them. See a Hell Knight show up with a Mancubus behind it? Two quick sniper shots can make deal with the Knight way less dangerous. It isn't necessarily about time to death, it's also about changing the terms of engagement.
@@Greninka for me, most of the time i just targeted the mancubus weak points cuz that screen shake and painfull 80 damage just fucks my shit up
also the empyrian drones, mostly those
Giving you more things to focus on isn't always a good thing.
"You can spend more time patching up your resources than slaying demons."
But... it's the same thing? I never used equipment in Doom 2016, not a single time past the introduction. I hardly ever used another gun that wasn't the machine gun or SSG. I knew exactly which demons to prioritize and how to take them down (and the answer was always SSG them to death). Doom Eternal's resource management gave me a a massive appreciation for the extent of the arsenal and it taught me *different* ways to take enemies down. And weak points just expanded the options. An Arachnotron's cannon wasn't a priority on smaller, more vertical maps so they could be ignored, and a Cacodemon taking a grenade meant I was out a grenade that could have been used to stagger a Cyber Knight or to farm massive amounts of armour from a group of fodder demons. With eighty trillion shotgun shells and more machine gun bullets than you can shake a stick at, there would never be any reason to switch weapons or explore how to efficiently farm resources. And taking resources means removing demons from the fight. These aren't opposing systems.
Doom eternal is everything I've ever wanted in a FPS
While I understand that having everything at the same time to deal with is very intense, and perhaps *too* intense for some people and that drives people away, for me, it's the perfect challenge, and I'll try to explain why
Difficulty feals really dull when they only change how much damage you take and how hard are enemies to kill, but doom eternal is harder than other FPS games because it forces you to have this chess battle against the way the enemy wave is designed at every combat encounter, which I think is amazing. I think good game design, while it means many things, one of the things it means to me is understanding why players like something and amping it up and I think just like Sekiro was the perfect experience to provide the feeling of mastery with it's combat system and boss design that souls players liked souls games for, doom eternal nails why a lot of players enjoyed doom 2016 more than other shooters and enhanced that in doom eternal, which for me is: swap weapons all the time, never stop to take cover, keep moving, run enemies over instead of running from them, pretend the ground is lava, etc
But I think people who aren't able to play to that level of multi-managing won't enjoy it as much. I'm not saying it's the player's fault, after all, if a player doesn't play as the creator intended, it's the designer's fault not the player's. But I think they nailed their target audience perfectly, retro FPS enthusiasts, and I'm happy to be part of that audience because I had a blast playing it!
really well put. It wasn't as fun as 2016 for me until I really mastered the rhythm of balancing soooo many mechanics automatically, but I could always SEE that it was going to be amazing once I got gud. Doom Eternal respects us enough to make us earn it.
I believe the resource management is to force you to use tools and other weapons more often. switching weapons and dancing through the arena is always more badass than sitting there using one weapon
In Doom '16 it felt awesome when i was constantly switching guns to deal with everything, in Doom Eternal it feels forced
@@TheZampa Did you switch because you HAD to or because you WANTED to? That's the problem here. You can beat D2016 with the SSG alone.
But can't you go through a lot of fight by just using the Super shotgun and the chainsaw. Do you go through 24 shotgun shells, before the chainsaw reloads (I guess it only releads to 10 or 12 or is it 16 end game?).
I will say I almost never used the Arbelast or the chaingun. The gauss cannon was my favourite in 2016, and I just didn't like the speed of the arbelast.
I mostly just used the Super shotgun, heavy cannon for weakspots, rocket launcher and occasionaly plasma rifle for trash and doom hunter.You could probably kill most stuff with just super shotgun and rocket launcher, with occasional blood punch against the doom hunters sled. You can use the chainsaw against the trash, with occasional grenades.
@@MJuegaES: sure it's possible to casually play Doom 2016 without switching guns, but I've watched enough speedruns and other high level play to know that constantly switching tools turns the player into a literal meat grinder.
That's the difference to me, 2016 is a game where you can switch weapons to maximize efficiency, whereas Eternal is a game where you have to keep switching guns just to survive.
@@MJuegaES The possibility of beating D16 SSG only is not inherently a problem, it comes down to what you want from the game.
That out of the way, even tho D16 is a more generous game with ammunition (yes, I know about the Eternal's chainsaw and i'll get to it), i don't think it's fair to say that the SSG or any other gun is the best for every scenario. There are still moments in combat where is way more advantageous to switch to a diferent gun.
I agree with @TheZampa here, but mostly because mechanically speaking, D16 was the perfect balance of engagement and gratification for me, and the ammo abundance empowered me to customize my experience better.
Eternal brings to the table a design of scarcity where it makes abundance achievable trough a more tactical engagement and doing so hinders the player from doing things other than the "correct thing". This is also not a problem. It just create a more difficult and demanding experience that is not going to satisfy you if what you want is to just fell awsome while killing demons.
I personally don't think the amount of tactical decisions in Eternal changed my experience for the better:
-My relationship with the chainsaw has to be infinitlly different in eternal while in D16 I used it more as a one hit kill for demons.
-You have to use the flame thrower to get armor constantly.
-There is the dashes and the pole things.
-Too many actions are cooldown dependable, so on and so forth
The point is, there is no way for me to play Doom Eternal as I played Doom 2016 because it's not the same game. Im happy it worked for some, sadly not so much for me.
Maybe i'll get back to it when I'm in a mood for a more demanding game. I just wanted to rip and tear for a bit, there is already too much thinking in the real world for me to do right now.
In defense of the Marauder let me say this:
Most people who dislike him say that he goes against the rules and principles of Doom's core gameplay. Unlike the other demons, the Marauder forces you into a too strict of a playstyle to deal with him. Fair enough, I think.
He is a wildcard. He stops the player from become too comfortable and too complacent in their own role in the combat dance. A good comparison would be Gracious and Glorious in Bayonetta. They nullify the effects of Witch Time which is one the core pillars of the combat in Bayonetta; the others being Dodge Off-set and Wicked Weave attacks. The game also doesn't tell you this, so you might think you're just missing the timing on your dodges. It's risky design.
Of course, to the credit of Bayonetta, that game never chucks these enemies in with a room full of other mocks to deal with. It is always strictly a Gracious and Glorious fight.
Although I think it's charming how the Marauder hilariously sprints into the screen with little fanfare when he shows up, I also get that a lot of peole balk at his appearences. I hope id's designers aren't discouraged by some peoples' dismay of the Marauder, because I think that the impetus behind his inclusion is the correct one. It just seems to have misfired somewhat as some people aren't ready to follow Doom Eternal down to that particular place in hell.
Fuck the Marauder! Long may he live!
He's basically to Doom Eternal what archviles were to Doom II. Sound concept, execution could use a little work.
Which is funny, since this game also reintroduces archviles. And they're very nearly as annoying as they were in Doom II.
iD in the DLC: TWO MARAUDERS BITCH
You could have gone deeper on the marauder other than "screw that guy"
Yea, drill him too.
Full stop: Doom Eternal. My brain feels like it's making decisions during fights in that game more often then in Doom 2016.
In doom 2016, it very quickly turned into 'kill the biggest demon first with the super shotgun'. Plus you had to go out of your way to get something that made monsters drop armor, leading to a little frustration when I continuously ran out of the stuff. Eternal makes you constantly swap weapons on the fly during fights. 2016 feels like a power trip while Eternal feels like a fair fight.
While I dont entirely agree with some of the negatives you put up towards the end, I at least see where you're coming from with a lot of them. Which is more then I can say for other critics.
Yeah, I played Doom 2016, and half of the weapons I didn't even touch. Every combat encounter was just "Shoot big thing until it dies". But now, the weak points are fun. I don't need to use the Shotgun or Rifle scope, I destroy weakpoints with grenades, RPGs and Ballista shots. The game teaches you the basics, but the best way to finish an encounter always depends on you.
ingredients for a doom dish:
at least 30 or 50 demons at once,
6 or more crunchy sounding weapons
2 fists
1 kick-ass soundtrack
and about a metric ton of blood
Add 1 tablespoon of boiling rage and voila, DOOM!
you forgot "huge guts, rip and tear"
& SECRETS!
And Elizabeth from Animal Crossing!
What bothered me about Doom Eternal was that health felt like exactly what you called it here: a resource. In Doom 2016, it was an actual indicator of how well you were doing. It often felt like it was possible to make it through complex situations without getting hit at all. In Eternal, there is always so much stuff going on all around you, and the projectiles are so fast that losing health didn't seem to be a punishment anymore, just another number to be factored in. Making health meaningful feedback AND the process of refilling it a fun incentive was what Doom 2016 did a lot better in my opinion.
Doom Eternal is the first game in a long time where I've had to take breaks after playing it for a while, just to give my brain time to rest
Vr games
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 VR breaks are to give your whole body a rest. Not the same as Doom Eternal breaks IMO
I found myself way more engaged every second of eternal than I ever was in Doom2016. Everything is just cranked to the max and demands so much more of you. It felt lame to feel so vulnerable at the start with such low ammo caps, but once I realized that the chainsaw now is on a cooldown and learnt to switch weapons quickly everything fell into place.
I initially read that as "way more enraged every second," which kinda fit my experience.
"So this is what the Doom Slayer feels like."
Run out of ammo more like great excuse to use the chainsaw
YEAH!
I wish they made all three fuel pips regenerate.
more like be forced to stop shooting in a first person shooter to use melee when it's not necessarily convenient
@@VladiMatt if it's not convenient, switch to another weapon until it is. It's really not that hard, people.
@@VladiMatt BRUH
I've gone back and forth on this, but ultimately, I think I like Eternal's combat system just a bit more. For all its upsides, '16 never really *forced* you to use your full arsenal (once you had the fully upgraded Super Shotgun in that game, there was zero reason to use anything else). Eternal gives you more tools, but since your resources are so limited and the enemies so numerous, you actually *need* to use them all.
I think the biggest downside to Eternal's system has to do with the specific enemy weaknesses. It's cool that they're there, but I hate how the game just flat-out tells you what they are the first time you see them. How cool would it be to, say, snipe off a Mancubus' gun by accident, notice the effect, and start experimenting with other weapons (you might try that with the Revenant and discover the same thing)? It's like how Halo will never come out and say "use a plasma weapon to get rid of shields, then headshot anything without them," figuring it out yourself is much more fulfilling.
I agree, from what i've seen of playthroughs with the tutorials turned on they are pretty annoying and unnecessary. It seems a little too much like the game just hands you the winning strats instead of teaching / letting you figure them out organically. It feels more like you are being railroaded than being clever and figuring things out yourself.
Creative designer Hugo Martin specifically adressed it: he strongly believes, that figuring out the rules of Eternal is not the fun part - mastering them is. Some games let you discover mechanics on your own, but Doom doesn’t, and that’s fine. As for tutorial messages, I really don’t understand the complaints - they always tell you something useful, they are short and to the point. There was never a time when my reaction to a pop-up was “yea, obviously”.
To be fair by the end of Eternal you can pretty much just use the super shotgun + blood punch to beat almost anything lol.
@@apocalypselemon2209 Not really, that gets you killed more often than not. That's a bad trade in terms of damage against most enemies.
@@RicochetForce if i have max health and armour then armour/health for blood and a flaming meathook is all i need
Saying you weren't paying attention is a god Teir way to avoid spoilers
To sum both games up in one sentence each:
"Doom (2016) is more fun to play poorly."
"Doom Eternal is more fun to play well."
The rigidity of the Chess match-style gameplay is much more pronounced in Eternal where there is, in fact, the "optimal" answer to many questions the game poses. As both games become more understood over time, I'm convinced Eternal is going to resonate longer.
Agreed. Although once you get the weapon switching, flame belch, and mobility down it begins to be a lot of rip and tear and less thinking. But i think that's because all of the decisions that are necessary to make in combat become background processes. You're still making those decisions, but at such a high rate that you nearly dont think about them
yeah, it's about building *routines* that you have on speed-dial.
-Does it have weak points that can be destroyed? Sticky Bombs.
-Is it a cacodemon? Sticky bomb, grenade, or Ballista.
-Is it a hell knight variant? Chaingun.
-Is it an imp? Machine gun.
-Is it a former human? Shotgun.
It's like flash-card matching.
Then there's knowing your cooldown for dashing, where, after you get your dash fully upgraded with two charges and the cooldown acceleration, you can hit the dash once about every half-second, listening to the audible 'beep' when your dash returns. Instead of always using up both dashes, you just continually use that first dash which, if you've been paying attention to the room layout, can make a "circuit" around the room, constantly dashing and preventing the enemies from accumulating in the area you dwell.
As you encounter enemies on your circuit, you play the flash card game and bop them, and, if you don't manage to kill them by the time you pass them by, you can just keep running past them and continue on to the next enemy and get them on your next orbit because they have no way to regenerate health.
I found the marauder to be a pretty cool enemy design. He's almost the inverse of the other super demons. Where demons like the baron or the archvile demand instant aggression to handle, the marauder's bait and counter ability force you to leave him alone and focus down other threats first. I've found the best thing to do is to kite him around the arena while you focus down other special demons first, and only counter him if he gets in your face. You can usually outmaneuver him, and his ranged attack can be avoided with constant dashing and breaking line of sight. Only after you thin the herd, can you turn your full attention to fighting him with your super shotgun/ ballista quick-switching. Happy hunting slayers!
**edit**
Just to be clear, I am playing on PC. I can only imagine that playing on controller drastically changes the difficulty of the marauder. If anyone is playing on controller, especially on higher difficulty I would love to hear about how that impacts the difficulty of the marauder!
He's cool visually, but game design wise he makes no sense in the cooking pot. The fact that you yourself mention how you should cheese him is pretty telling to me. None of the other enemies work this way for good reason. They gave him immunity to make him artificially more difficult. He's an interesting boss once, but eventually just becomes a chore to fight. Waiting for a counter window is simply not in line with the rest of Doom Eternal IMO.
@@Ayoul He's the counter to just aoe'ing a group of enemies with grenades, ice, and rockets.
Zoots Alure I disagree with the Marauder’s design. I think it goes against the flow of combat in D:E to have an enemy whose most effective strategy is to leave him alone and wait for the 1v1. As a boss enemy, that’s fine, nobody’s complaining about the tactics or game design of the Gladiator.
This game’s strengths is the constant stream of proactive decisions and multiple options present to the players. Marauders limit those options to one, wait and then SSG at the correct time. There’s many ways to kill a Pain Elemental, many ways to kill a Tyrant, and it involves doing what you do best, aggressive, proactive attacks. It stops the game dead when, after everything else is dead, I have to sit there and wait to attack. And it’s not even hard, once you’ve killed one Marauder, you can kill them all.
Waiting for the game to tell me to attack is anti-Doom.
The marauder completely shatters the normal rhythm and flow to doom combat. As a boss fight it was fine. Was a neat change of pace. But then he starts showing up in the middle of much larger encounters, at which point he just makes the game unpleasant to play. Normal arena fights are constantly shouting at you to keep moving and keep shooting or you're dead. And then comes the marauder, who can only be fought by slowing down and waiting. And then just for extra salt in the wound, he's completely immune to the standard "I don't to deal with this" responses. The game gives you the crucible and BFG, shows you that both can one hit kill any normal enemy, and then spits in your face and tells you those don't work on the marauder.
@@derekjones5419 That's not entirely correct. He is indeed limits your way of dealing with him, but he doesn't really iterrupt the flow because he can be killed from two-three staggers, which you can do while other monsters in arena didn't spawn yet, and he staggered by SSG, railgun, rocket, grenade (both usual and sticky) and BFG (one shot in the face and he's dead). Furthermore, you can damage (and kill) him even without staggering him - rockets and grenades behind his shield, and BFGing him inderectly (when BFG ball flies behind him, he will turn around to protect himself, exposing his back to any of your weapons).
Imo he's a great addition to Eternal. At first I hated him, when I didn't know about quickswitching, but now he feels like perfect addition, icing on the cake.
The specific weaknesses that enemies have to certain weapons (like the Cacodemon being weak to the sticky bomb mod) in addition to the strict ammo supplies combine to force players to use the whole arsenal. In 2016, most of the time the SSG was a great option, and when it wasn't, the Gauss Cannon and BFG (which, once introduced, had ammo in almost every arena), would pick up the slack. I think the devs wanted players to use every weapon, and I believe they succeeded, as every weapon fills some important niche (though the plasma rifle is a bit weak IMO).
Comparing DOOM 2016 with DOOM Eternal, I must say that I love Eternal's combat the most!
I play Eternal on Nightmare, because I like the challenge. The constant strategies and weapon switching, when you enter a slayer's gate is god damn fun, even after 20 tries!
Eternal made me feel like a better player after several hours in and that means that I wanna go back and play the game again and see how good I am!
Great video! :)
Have you tried ultra nightmare?
"It's not unusual to come out of these gauntlets with an elevated heart-rate and a white-knuckled grip on the controller ..."
*heavy inhale *
"... or mouse"
*heavy exhale *
I consider the per-demon weapon weaknesses as an addition to the tactical possibilities. As you say it (and as it is) it's only a *feeling* that it's the only way to take them out, when it's just the best. However, things like rockets vs fast moving critters does, in fact, make rockets a bad choice.
This brings to mind a companion vid that might be nice, something on weapon upgrades, runes, etc. These really affect the way a battle goes. Rockets more than most. IMO, it should be in this vid where weapon choice is talked about, but it may make the flow of the vid break.
Anyway, I liked it, and people who complain about the lack of resources, etc, should watch it.
Thanks.
lock on rockets is dollar store bfg
5 charge grenade launcher and ice bomb with double damage is a very balanced and acceptable way to clear out whiplashes
mobile turret with haste and the bonus movement speed of the glory kill rune is the fastes way to clean the room
change my mind
Yeah this guy shouldn't be making that video because he clearly doesn't understand those concepts hahaha
Also, the weapon weaknesses were done to help the player get better, the cacodemon and aracnotron weaknesses both get you used to the arc of the sticky bomb for example. Also, weaknesses aren't necessarily THE BEST way to kill an enemy, for example, a grenade and full auto delete an aracnotron quickly, no switching to sticky bombs required.
These Anatomy videos, the Doom ones especially, are my favourite videos, outside Boss Keys. Really enjoying seeing how different antagonists work together.
If you think about, the doomslayer is technically being calculative and less of a raging monster with his guns
"I wasn't really paying attention to the story"
Aw come on!
Excellent job with the video, Mark!
Ew you called him Mark
@@geneyhoudini lol Houdini 😂
I disagree with your positions on the weaknesses, ammo, Buff Totem, and Archvile.
Weapon weaknesses give the player a temporary 5th question: how are you going to tackle this specific demon? Are you going to hold your ground and wait for the perfect time to strike and destroy their rocket launcher or frag its mouth (which gives it or others time to kill you), or will you focus fire and tear it to shreds before it has a chance to threaten you? I for one rarely used the Cacodemon's weakness. It better suited my play style to just pop an arbalest into its face or use the meathook, one of which I was probably already holding.
The lack of ammo is a critical part of what makes this game tick. The player is constantly on the verge of failure, desparate for more ammo and armor. The chainsaw exists to give them an out, but the gasoline requirement also adds a difficulty in timing and opportunity. Sure, you have one gas tick on cooldown so you can get a Zombie or a Soldier pretty quickly as soon as you see it, but good luck when a Prowler's on your tail and you just used the last gas tank on the field. The chainsaw doesn't act like a tool in Eternal, it behaves like its own weapon, and like the others you'll need to know when to use it for maximum effect.
The Archvile's job is to piss you off, flood you with enemies, and put a stop to your progression. It's not there to simplify the mental load by eliminating the question of priority, it's there to raise the mental load by complicating the other questions and making them impossible to answer (unless of course, you came in with a Crucible pip). The Buff Totem is similar, but here's a curiosity: while Archviles love spawning in Pain Elenentals and Mancubi galore, most of the Buff Totem enemies are fodder demons, namely Gargoyles and Soldiers. This isn't a coincidence, it's a new question: _when_ do I get rid of the totem? As long as fodder demons keep respawning, the player has an infinite supply of health, armor, and ammo ready to exploit if the started the fight on the brink of death. Plus, if your timing is impeccable, you can kill a handful of demons then get rid of the Buff Totem before they respawn, lightening the workload for the rest of the fight, and maybe making the Buff Totem meaningless if you can do all that on your first sweep.
Nice insight. Thanks.
You can cheese a cacodemon with grenade and you should otherwise it will launch helluva projectiles at you . I cannot see a difference between using ballista or frag . If you wanna a challenging gameplay play it on ultra nightmare difficulty
Wholly agree with your points here. DOOM Eternal feels absolutely amazing to play. It's miles more engaging and challenging than DOOM 2016, and it lays it's core functionality really bare, at least on nightmare. I suspect lower difficulties might hurt the experience a bit, but I haven't tried yet. In Nightmare you rarely intentionally finish an enemy without either glory killing it or chainsawing it, because you need that ammo and health (and that speed buff rune is bliss
i agree on ammo, archvile and the weaknesses, but come on, buff totems are awful, fodder demons already respawn anyway, so why put a tiny new thing i have to find and punch? i cant even throw a grenade at it so i can keep moving
I can understand that. I didn't mind them so much, evidently, but there's a good case to be made for it being somewhat of a joke
It's so amazing how much thought and care is needed to make a 5 minute combat sequence. I imagine people spending a week just to make this single part of the game
"Everyone is here!"
Doomguy confirmed for Smash!
He's a mii fighter in smash now actually
Admit it: you've been looking forward for this one too.
I absolutely love the new combat system so yeah, when I saw this notification I was hyped
Yeah and then I was really dissapointed by this shitty video
Looking at console shooters over the past 2 decades, I really appreciate how id Software doubled down on demanding a lot from the player. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some CoD multiplayer as much as the next scrub, but the high barrier to entry with Eternal is very welcome, I feel.
As for the Archvile and Marauder, they pose a challenge which at no point felt unfair and by the time I fought against the final of each they weren't a big deal as the game taught me how to play to the best of my ability.
To struggle in Eternal is where the fun lies
Once you get the crucible, the archvile is pretty much a non-factor
@@Ozymandatory yeah, I disagree. I enjoy the mix up he provides, plus he's cool AF.
Then again I'm not the type of player to decry lost souls in Doom 2016 because I got killed by one in an ultra nightmare run. The fault was mine, the player.
@@Ozymandatory personally i love the marauder it adds another level of chaos to the fight but I can understand not liking it.
@@Ozymandatory There is a plethora of strategies and guides made by near-masters of the game that allow you to take down the Marauder in less than ten seconds. The Marauder in particular is what makes me want to master every mechanic in Doom Eternal to a tee, because I’ll know I’ve gotten good once I can take him out in a similar fashion.
Stellar stuff as always, thanks Mark! I’m always amazed to see how much strategy goes into building these encounters.
Really can’t wait to get my hands on this game, DOOM 2016 completely rewrote the book on first person shooters and will be really hard to top in my mind!
Another amazing video Mark!
DOOM Eternal took longer to learn. There's a higher skill ceiling than in DOOM 2016. With the addition of flame belch and the dash, there are 2 new invaluable skills that players will have to use to succeed in the later encounters. I think the Slayer Gates in particular showcase this. They take place in some of the most well-designed arenas in Eternal and you constantly need to use your entire arsenal and set of skills to succeed. By comparison, I got through DOOM 2016 despite having 2 main weapons (super shotgun and gauss cannon) and ignoring some weapons like the plasma rifle and combat shotgun entirely in later levels.
I disagree with a few points made in the video:
-I think the Archvile is actually pretty good. Having this enemy appears completly changes your priorities, keeping you on edge and building up tension by reducing your number of options momentarily. And the summoner from the previous game pretty much worked the same way for me. The totem is useless though, just being a button allowing you to start the fight.
-The Maraudeur isn't that bad imo, once again forcing you to change your way of fighting, but it as way to much HP, forcing you to use a particular strategy again and again, making him a boring opponent. But I like the idea to shake things up by putting you on the defensive.
-The point made about indisticted ennemies, covert-based shooters and weapon limitations. Of course, a lot of games used those mecanics in a dull way, but there are also clever ways to use them. A game more based on cover can push you to use different routes to flank ennemies, wich can be interresting in other ways than being higly differentiated (team-based strategy, behaviour,...), weapon limitation forces you to make choices,... My point is that there are a lot of ways to bring intensity in a fight, and that we shouldn't throw away mecanics just because they were poorly used or over-used by convention without thought behind them.
I liked the buff totems for 2 reasons. 1: it was intense trying to find the thing with fast baddies chasing you. 2: after they slowed back down, I felt like my skill increased substantially because now I was used to them moving much faster. That was a great feeling
@@MisterMashu I see what you mean, but it felt very artificial to me, and pretty useless since totems are in the fight during 10 seconds before you take it out without even considering the demons around. But at least there is one thing that we can all agree on: tentacles are bullshit.
@@TheVal990 yes lol. They were added to "keep the player engaged in between combat sections" well guess what... Just make the whole game combat sections and it would've been the best game ever made! The in between sections just killed the pace and were so pointless
@@MisterMashu Well I'm not angry with the plateforming and exploration personnally. It's not the core of the game and it's not as interresting as combat, but it's important to not exhaust the player. and once you finished the game once, you can go through those in-betweens really quickly, (at the exception of the tentacules and purple goo parts), so you can spend most of your time fighting when revisiting levels.
Well said
Thats an amazing explanation and breakdown of that combat gameplay. Helps a lot ! :)
this is the best analysis of this game i've heard, expertly put together
Am I the only one who loved the tension that I had from the presence of a marauder? His low power long range attack put him as a dow priority in my eyes, but he forced me to be constantly on the move, and always forward until I managed to clean enough of the room to make facing him a viable options. Yes, it was frustrating to get killedlike a dog afterwards, and have to redo the whole hight, but I felt that he did add a lot of tension whenever he appeared.
Personally, I liked Eternals weapon-specific weaknesses and limited ammo. It actually made me think about what weapons I wanted to use for what enemies, rather than just picking one and using it for the entire fight
Thank you for this video! Thanks for your time and your work :D
Someone WITH A BRAIN explains the games.
This channel, the thing you did here is what I call a school. This channel IS a chapter in the book of every game designer, architect and engineer. What makes it valuable is how the information is displayed and the rhythm of the presentation.
This is why youtube should never cease to exist.
“What’s your favorite puzzle game?” “Doom Eternal” “ Thats not a puzzle game!” “Oh... You haven’t heard?”
I really hope devs of FPS games learn from DOOM, both this new revival of the series as well the original one. Fast paced action, with no bullshit covers is the way FPS games are meant to be played.
Unfortunately, FPS games are designed to sell. And if the skill floor is too high, the average gamer will bitch and developers will lower it. That's why most FPS titles released today have 2 weapon arsenals, regenerating health, and cover. Notice how each one of those largely removes things the player has to worry about and actively manage.
Why does everyone forget about the Shadow Warrior games? They aren't better then Doom, but Shadow Warrior in 2013 was pretty much Doom 2016, with a lot less enemy variety, and Shadow Warrior 2 in 2016 was Doom Eternal meet Diablo, where you pretty much dashing around and flying.
If they made a Shadow Warrior 3 with great open levels, but kept to around 8-10 guns, instead of 30+ like they had in SW2, and stayed away from the RPG elements, it would probably be the greast arena shooter ever. SW has the best first person slashing I ever seen.
I do wonder if the developers of Doom 2016 played Shadow Warrior in 2013, and thought "People don't just want Bioshock Infinite, Call of Duty and Far Cry, but also want single player arena shooters? Awesome".
@@ghosface353 I almost never used guns in Shadow Warrior the sword fighting was so fun. Yeah they need to make a SW3 but remove the fluff like RPG mechanics and Borderlands loot.
How could you make a semi-realistic modern military FPS game with innovative gameplay and no covers or regenerating health?
Genuine question, not here to prove your wrong or anything like that
@@RicochetForce and that's what happened to Doom Eternal too lol. Everyone bitching about the mechanic, while the fault entirely sit on their end. Either they don't want to admit it or couldn't comprehend the learning curve, ie lazy. The game has solution for every problem.
I’ve been watching this channel for a while but this is one of the best videos I think you’ve put it - never played doom but all of a sudden I can see the complexity in it and why it’s a good game - gonna have to pick it up:)
i love how there's a fuel jerrycan on the entrance of a citadel in hell like it's normal
The weapon specific weakness add a new layer to gameplay. I’d have to consider saving enough shotgun ammo to have a sticky grenade to take out a cacaodemon. This makes the game more complex and enjoyable.
And screw the Maurader.
@@ankereisenman4824 I like the Maurader.
But a regular frag grenade works as well.
Same, I can't go back to Doom 2016 without constantly thinking of how I can't destroy the Mancubus' and Revenant's guns, overload the zombie soldier's shields and kill the Cacodemon with a single grenade.
I love that every demon has a weakness against a specific gun. In Doom 2016 it didn't really matter what weapon you chose.
Also, every weapon on itself feels more powerful, not only because of the new (or in some cases classic), better looking designs and their new, much more powerful sounds, but primarily because now you can see the damage you are doing to a demon. It's like a health bar for the demons.
It helps in predicting when I can do a glory kill. Often I start one without even seeing the demons flash, and if I misjudge, they're probably dead anyways because most of the time I have a blood punch ready.
Also you have both your normal grenade and sticky grenade, so it doesn't even have to interrupt the flow of gameplay because you can just use your normal grenade instead of switching mods or weapons. It also makes you actually use different weapons and abilities instead of just using 2 or 3.
Amazing video as always
One of the first things I recognized about Eternal after scraping through the first two or three levels on Ultraviolence (shut up, I haven't played a twitchy FPS in a while and I'm rusty) was that they were definitely taking the "never stop moving" aspect of 2016's combat and ratcheting it up to eleven. You really, _really_ cannot stop moving and taking action in Eternal's combat, or shit will hit the fan hard and fast for you. Even the weapon mods that slow you down when you use them, like the shotgun's sticky-bomb launcher and the heavy cannon's zoom, require you to 1) keep moving even while scoped, 2) get used to both lining up shots while moving and quick-scoping your targets, and 3) heavily encourage you to go for the upgrades that increase scoped movement speed and/or reload time.
And I love every second of it. It is so insanely satisfying to run past an arachnotron or a revenant, switch to the c-shotgun, pop a grenade and see it land right on that cannon as I turn around, and keep on running to the sweet sound of a weak spot being destroyed. Hell yeah.
In fact, now that I think about it, some of the mods that don't slow you down actually help you clear a path or move even faster, like the super shotgun's meat-hook and the heavy cannon's missiles!
Can you get started on the marauders and talk about how they completely break the philosophy of the game?
Or a tutorial so you can get good instead of blaming ur ineptitude on the "philosophy of the game"
@@LukeStoyanoff ohhhhh, so you are one of those dudes that gets butthurt about their doom game having flaws, aren't you? "Getting good" is not a valid excuse for inherently unfun mechanics in videogames, that's why very difficult games are so boom or bust. Getting your ass handed by almost any Dark Souls boss is fun, but then you get to bed of chaos and that is clearly a poorly designed fight.
Marauders are not inherently hard to defeat, but they just break the flow of the game. Push forward combat just breaks with them, since you can't really do anything to them aside from throwing explosives and playing their green light minigame (that sometimes just doesn't work because AI screws up). And yeah, it's easy to combo them with the shotgun and the railgun and kill them in a few cicles, but is that fun? I literally just ignore them, clean up the arena and then stand still doing my weapon rotations to kill them.
Yes, standing still in DOOM, the very thing they don't want you to do. The Marauders work well enough as a bossfight, but throw them in a regular arena and it would be like throwing pizza in a chocolate fondeu. Both things can work well on their own, but they are ruined together.
They also remove almost all choice from you, whereas most enemies are pretty open about how you want to deal with them. You can kill a pinkie by shooting it by the front if you want, it may not be the most effective strategy, but you can. Same thing with the cyber mancubus, you can kill them without using a blood punch on them. Marauders force you to do one thing, and one thing only and it feels very cheap.
@@leinadlink how does pizza with chocolate fondeu even taste
@@dangerouslydubiousdoubleda9821 I don't really want to think about that
@@leinadlink just a question:/
I like the fact that you keep the footage of your gameplay imperfections in the final cut of your videos.
To show us a realistic gameplay and not media hyped perfect trailer gameplay.
I believe you choose to do so on purpose..... but maybe im wrong and you simply missed a couple of shoots.
He never says he is the best at games. Also he said Titanfall 2 was easy I think he didn’t touch Master since you get 2 shot in it.
Honestly, I thought that the poor gameplay was almost entirely due to the controller. Watching the camera overcorrect time and again as he's trying to aim and land shots is... Really hard to watch. I can't help but feel if he was playing on PC, his aim would be a boatload more consistent.
I didn't mean to criticize his gameplay, Just wanted to point out that his videos are relatable because they are not with perfect gameplay.
To be fair, almost ALL gameplay of this game looks like "media hyped perfect trailer gameplay", even on console, because that's how the game is meant to be played, and that's just how average gameplay naturally looks like.
This guy's gameplay looks super slow for some reason, which isn't "realistic" at all for this game
@@Drukzul I played on console and I definitely didn't struggle like he did here. I think he's just not a pro FPS player which is fine.
superb analysis, wonderfully communicated, Game Maker's Toolkit is a great resource for budding devs
I love the flow of doom! It really forces you to keep moving all the time and keep in rythm, otherwise you are dead. Super smart design!
does the pain elemental really spawn lost souls?
i've never encountered lost souls just roaming around to attack me later or from another angle from memory
it felt like they were glorified fireballs to me to look like demons
Unfortunately no, Pain Elementals don't truly spawn in Lost Souls like the originals. They're basically if not literally just the glorified fireballs. If you kill an Elemental, the Souls will automatically vanish with them sadly.
Lost Souls DO appear as normal enemies in Cultist Base, but that's basically it. They're not used NEARLY as much as they were in 2016, which is unfortunate cuz I actually really like what the modern one-shot-kill Souls add to fights. Snipe em before they see you or wait and blast them with the shotgun as they charge you.
Whiplash shouldnt be shotgunned in my opinion, you should stay at mid-long range. Instead, use the missile launchers autoaim attack which one-shots it.
Dont use ballista on imps, just use a shottie/ plasma cause the ballista takes time to fire
Great video!
A couple of things off my mind about your points:
- The "one way to kill" thing it's a layer added to the priority question. You see, the Cacodemon can be staggered fast, so he's close to a fodder "heavy" so to speak. You could leave him alone, but the Cacodemon becomes a threat if you leave him. With a rune, it also becomes a dash refill in mid air to get out of trouble faster. It makes you think if you should leave him or take him down quickly. Same with the Arachnotron and Mancubus weapons, you can take it down with the grenades, or the sniper, or the super shotgun. It already gives you alternatives, so what if you use the flame chain of the super shotgun? Or maybe take advantage of a group of enemies and throw a grenade? I think that it opens more routes, than those it cuts.
- The Archvile, in my opinion, it's damn perfect. It accomplishes two things: One, in-lore, it's the de-facto commander of demons in battle. It must be a priority, in-gameplay, it becomes a priority. Second, in the original game, the Archvile was one of the most creepiest enemies to face. How could you achieve this in the current state? Well, with a high priority. Also, the guy freaking hides behind you. You don't even know he's in the arena until you have move enough to find him. It furthers encourages fast movement, but it also provides focus from time to time. He doesn't show up that often, so it's more of a change of pace than a breaking of one.
- The Marauder, it fits close with the Archvile in its purpose. It needs focus BUT it needs to be LAST. It's like if you had a rotating flame chain from Mario constantly following you. Killing him is easy: flash-super shotty-quick swtich to the balista-repeat. But to do that, you need to clear the arena first. It's the complete opposite of the Archvile. If you've been just playing the game, these two forces you to be actually strategic, kinda like how the glory kill system forces you to play aggressive.
For all of this, I think that this game does it better than 2016 in the gameplay perspective. It's not that it's leagues above, it just improves and solved on the key problems of 2016 (that you once mentioned long ago): it does become repetitive. Doom Eternal never becomes repetitive. It gives you tons of fights without a specific route, but then it does make you strategize on the fly, it forces you to manage your resources, but it gives you many more tools to do it however you think it's best.
This video was an unexpected but welcomed surprise! I love how id Software decided to craft an intense shooter that requires so much thinking and almost puzzle solving just in its combat.
"Dissecting" Doom? Don't you mean ripping and tearing it apart?
@@jeanlepage4264 Mark has missed the mark :-)
Doom Eternal combat, one word: Badass
A years-belated thanks for getting me interested in DOOM 2016 two or three years ago from your vid on its and Titanfall 2's campaigns
Hooray! Glad you like it
Really well made and constructed video, I am very amused! :)
The marauder became one of the easier super demons to kill once I got used to him. I look forward to fighting him because he demands so much attention.
Also once you figure out Gauss is better than the shotgun. The issue with him isn't difficulty it's that he forces a vary specific play style. Honestly if he didn't have the dog I think he would be fine.
Shoot the dog with the icebomb. The icebomb Kills it and you get some health
@@Darknessblade4me that doesn't sound reliable as he can respawn the dog very quickly (I think he did it back to back once)
Honestly I agree with fake banette, dog spawns too frequently
@@hector-m-carrillo that fully depends on Your own decision. If you lay into his shield or it gets damaged frequently, he will spam the dog like a madman. The only exception is frag grenades because he ignores them.
@@hector-m-carrillo to be fair I am not even saying it is hard to deal with. But you bring up the main point is it happens too often.
I really like how all the enemies give you different ways to destroy them.
Was waiting for this inevitable episode.
You explained very well the short comings of Doom Eternal, especially with the Marauder.
When you fight the Marauder, you're no longer in control, you have to wait for him instead.
Hey Mark. wanted to express my respect to your channel at first hand! and wanted to share my thought about Dooms resemblance to The Darksiders. I looooooove this series (first one was gold for me, but unfortunately after that, none had met the hype) the mythology behind 4 horsemen (as parallel to Sentinels) Hell (...HELL) Heaven (like heaven) monsters and graphics (with larger textured swipes and monster design). even Doomguys attitude is very much like the WAR from the first game. quite sad, that Darksiders is not as famous as it deserves IMO. Hope you find my comment interesting and really would love the game to be featured in one of your vids. Cheers from fellow creator!
The Marauder felt like a pace breaker for me in doom eternal. I really didn’t like that enemy because it wasn’t really hard, it was just time consuming to kill because you had to wait for a specific time frame to be able to damage it
Past honeymoon period, I agree with you.
Marauder isn't hard, like at all! It just isn't fun.
It would have been better if they lowered the instances of him using the shield and instead gave him more movement like another human player would, using monkey bars, dash and circling the Slayer.
Not only would that make an encounter with him fun, but it would also make him challenging
Once you learn how to fight it you can take it down quickly. Even in one cycle.
Very elaborate Mark!
Nice analysis man!
"Dont get me started about Marauder"
Nah, a lot of people hate him, but in reality he is fair oponent and something to diversify the experience, just like climbing, exploration, cutscenes etc. Just shoot it with ballista and super shotgun right after seeing green eyes, never shoot him while he is not attacking so he wont summon his doggo and keep your distance so he wont shotgun you. He is a part to give you some rest between arena fights to give you something more personal.
Except when he appears in the arena fights
I know how to fight a marauder and i still think it doesnt belong in a doom game. The green eye mechanic is a stupid gimmick. Just because something diversifies the game, that doesnt make it good. Also it doesnt give anything more personal. Its ruins the pace of the game. Its the only demon that i dont want to fight because he is no fun and annoying.
The issue with the marauder is something Mark touched on when discussing the Cacodemon's instant stagger weakness. The game presenting the little popup telling you how the Marauder works causes people to limit their understanding of the enemy to that information, this coupled with the fact that the Marauder's blurb lies to you about how the Marauder works in this context, and it's really easy to get where the hate comes from.
That's like taking a break from running to go running.
@@ZefulStarsonTo kill the Marauder you can use: Super shotgun, Ballista, Grenades and Rockets. However, the most efficient way is to weapon switch between the shotgun and balista, since you can get 3 shots in this way.
I feel like adding in Preservation to the mix as a more constant priority hinders the experience of Doom Eternal, even if in an understandable way. Doom (2016) was balanced around making the player feel like a powerful entity tearing through the UAC facility like a predator, but Eternal seems to evoke more of the feel of a resistance fighter who is up against an almost insurmountable enemy.
I understand why the push is made, but it also creates a feeling of frustration as every glory kill isn't made as a triumphant "screw you" to the demons but as a frantic scramble to claw back a little more life. Doom (2016) was rarely easy when playing on Ultra-Violence but in Eternal it feels punishing more often than fun. Then again, perhaps I'm just pushing myself too hard and should drop down.
Also, fuck the Marauder. I've seen the videos explaining how to take him down but they don't work damn it.
doom eternal can feel like an absolute power trip, even more so than 2016, because once you do defeat it all it feels completly earned. the intensity of the combat makes you feel even better beating it. as the creator put it, "I'm ok with pissing off the player, as long as they learn something." so if you take away something from the combat encounter, the next time youll rip them to shreds. and if you feel its too frustrating just turn down the difficulty, if you dont want nail biting, tense encounters you can turn down the difficulty and feel the power trip you crave without having to dedicate a too much time to it.
Love these videos. Incredibly informative. Perhaps in a future video-if you haven’t talked about it already-you could talk about “Replayability”: whether that takes the form of “New Game Plus” in some games, DLC, collectable/completionist content, etc. What developers offer a player after the credits roll or the story portion is completed. Keep up the great content!
YOU good sir, have made an EXCELLENT video! Subscribed!
Please yes God damn it this is what I needed
Doom is the first game in years to actually hurt my eyes from looking at it too long
.... in a good way .... ;)
Then you won't like mine, but yes you are right about that but it makes it feel more lively and retro
Always happy to see a new one of these, he has been extra active recently.
dude i love your videos!
GMT: "The Mancubus."
Me: Guess it's good I didn't stay indefinitely at The Lodge.