This is a HUGE problem (Throne & Liberty)
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- čas přidán 30. 01. 2024
- Kanon exposes Throne & Liberty's biggest issue
Video edited by: @WarmWashCloth
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They should ban bots and macro abusers, but not because it directly affects your guild. It should be to the benefit of all players.
I don't understand why this is so hard to combat. Amazon should require an Amazon account with a CC attached to play, and if that account is caught botting, it should ban the entire Amazon account and any account that pops up with that CC
Money is the reason why.
T&L isn't doing as well as they had counted on. Whichbis why they've already got server merges going on. And while this game is free-to-play. And these botters are using cheats to avoid paying money. They are actively buying the stuff others are swipping to buy. The game needs both types of players to maintain its freemium monetization setup. With decreasing numbers. Banning people would drop their numbers further. Which not only looks bad to their investors and publisher. But directly impacts how quickly the cash shop purchased goods move. That then will discourage people from swipping and selling for quick gains. They've created a cyclical system that relies on a healthy population. Which they are steadily losing.
Same thing is in Lost Ark- no idea how korean servers and if they are even protected, but I think til this day botting is a huge issue in Lost Ark on global. Never in any other mmo have I seen so many bots not even trying to pretend they are not doing bot shit.
Even the name's stupid. T&L? I watch plenty of game commentary and I have no fuken idea what this game is about. They never cared to promote it. @@keldor8302
They have currency that u can buy for real money in the game, plus being f2p makes botting very tempting. No reason not to bot with that wombo combo.
@@keldor8302what a load of rubbish, they have been actively banning bots.
This Guild WHAT is well known CHEATERS/EXPLOITERS in any games they touch. not surprise
Confirmed I legit farm Shadow Crypt and Syelus everyday and see tons of WHAT botting all over both.
u blind when kanon ally botting i saw everyday in abyss so bias
Lesson I learned in Lost Ark, don’t over invest mentally in a free to play Korean MMO with pay to win. Especially if that game ever comes to the west.
"no no no bro this is pay to fast" LOL hahahaha you learn the lesson bro this is the way.
Bots will be a worse problem in this game because lost ark is pve so you can ignore more bots/rmt since you are not competing directly against abusers. TL is more a pvp game about conquest, you will have to fight against people that rmt and use bot or have bot trains "working" for then. good luck. legit players will abandom this game fast. no one can endure, no one is stupid when the own company dont care. people will quit or start bot too there is no escape.
That is the reason why developers originally added auto features in the game to make it fair to everyone to auto grind since it is impossible to prevent bots but people, especially in NA and EU are complaining about it so there you have it.
Damn. I was wondering how all these WHAT guilds were so high level compared to all top Khazar server guilds. Had a feeling it wasn't achieved in a legit way.
I just logged into the korean server, walked outside the first city and literally 6 or 7 bot trains per spot. And it continues like that until the endgame. You rarely see actual players in the map, all you can see are train bots deleting everything around in each farm area. after couple days i just uninstalled it. Dont waste your time on this trash guys.
Great vid Kanon - I hope both NCSoft but more importantly AGS see this & manage to formulate a plan, because this in the west will just kill the game within a month tops.
The other night I was showing people Syleus 5F and 6F and I just randomly found a party of those & also a solo bot down there, in the deepest parts of the dungeon.
They had a couple active guys in the group, who immediately started freaking out and typing ?? ?? in chat, it was hilarious to watch.
The solo guy, I killed by aggroing a whole bunch of mobs on him, he didn't even attempt to move to safety, just died & stayed dead on the spot for over 20mins (his tombstone stayed there when I looped back around) - footage is both on my youtube & twitch vods, I think someone clipped it on twitch too.
Ncsoft cares about 1 thing money they don't care about bots
@@bryancherwaty4320 Feel free to elaborate how they are making money by allowing this to continue.
@@ai_baggs exactly haha items getting cheaper with bots and so ncsoft will not make money :D cos players just spend lesser lucent to get the items heh
@@Sh0wx Yeah, pretty much what's happening atm. I bought my top for 3k lucent (that I farmed ingame) and now it's sub 800... but somehow "bOTsMaKEncSoFTmOnEY"
I'm hopeful that they can get this botting under control. This is probably why they haven't started global yet.
Oh wow, it's almost like a grindy p2w game is inevitably going to be plagued by bots and RMTers. Who woulda fuckin thought
A very good point, the biggest issue with the game right now are bots.
Devs are listening to the community so if they find a way to constantly remove bots the game will for sure have a bright future.
Dont say your sorry for something that you are doing when it is something you feel right about. Better to say "It sucks that you have to cheat to get a head, and sucks more that it was so easy to catch you cheating"
is that the same WHAT that were known hackers in new world? lol.... seems like it.
Yes its the same
Same WHAT from BDO, New World and Albion. They're a Thai powerhouse.
This giga zerg is a problem too 20 guilds to win a pvp is nasty. They preffer nerf the maps and grinds from bot instead solve the problem. Ncsoft is a shame, a huge game company and can't fix a simple problem like put an anticheat in the game or make an update without an error.
Video with direct impact and high information power. Congratulations on the video. I hope NCSOFT thinks something about this after years and years of the issue of 'bots' in their games.
I got nearly crucified when I made video speaking openly about bots issue ...and I seen what botting did to Lineage2 ...its a dead game now thnx to bots. I am glad I am not alone in this fight! Great video!
In some games like revelation online, high guild level = high power level for chars.
You're able to research stat-increasing guild 'machines' that you can send your characters to train in.
This in turn increases stats in ways gear and accessories cannot.
so an equally skilled, leveled and geared character from a small guild will always lose to someone from a big guild.
just because they're in a big guild.
Question:
Does high guild level = high power level in TL ?
Yes kinda, like higher level guilds are able to have more members and get some bonus stats, more bosses per week and stuffs like that
@@AmigosdeViagens thank you o/ so meeting someone from a bigger guild in open world pvp is a death sentence then. Sounds like TL will be heavily unbalanced.
Just to be clear i dont see being able to get more bosses per week as having more power overall. you might have a higher chance of getting better drops, but thats not really more power, not like my example of Rev Online.
in Rev you LITERALLY are just more powerful because a lot of your stats are boosted, just from being in a bigger guild.
But that stat thing sounds like its going to be an imbalance, powerful guild members can just stomp on guildless or small guild people.
@@iscuxcar You get a lot of stuff by being in a guild, I would say this game is even unplayable if you don't join some active guild, but you don't get direct buff that increases power of your character just by being in a guild. There is one buff that's applied when you're in a guild called 'Guild Benefits' which has several tiers, the highest tier buff will give 3% exp bonus, 100 defense and 10 mana regen. To put it into perspective I have 800 base defense on my character (playing mage so I'm quite squishy) and single piece of armor gives me 55 mana regen (there is 6 pieces into armor btw) so numbers on this buff is really trivial.
Kanon for justice!
they're better off just making it a subscription based game requiring a credit card for subscription upon game registration.
i use those bots at my contract quest on purelight hill
Know how long it took AGS to ban or get bots under control in New World? Not until the "expansion". There needs to be mods ON THE SERVERS to look into these reports with mod tools and ban these people/clans. Personally, I would allow some of the bots to exist so I could follow their transactions and find the root of the problem.
( NIce to all your buddy for ranking to allkorean and non korean real players , big love
Lost Ark's economy was borked by bots. I have no idea how this game will be any different unless they completely redesign the rewards system.
Is there... like... a need to make ALTs like in Lost Ark? Which could be a thing for bots? :(
no point to have alts
if you want the best value for having alts and the least stress, you can have 1 main and 2 alts, 3 total characters. I would suggest having atleast 1 healer
mf hooky still running it up from new world to albion and now t&l lmao
I am so eager to be able to play the western version of this game (I tried it for a few hours on the KR server, but I'm discouraged by the idea of maybe getting blocked from the account or just having to redo everything when it comes out globally). But I'm really worried by this botting problem. Botting has always existed, and will always exist probably. But it has literally ruined some games, while some other games were really aggressive and proactive in removing offending players. I really hope Amazon will tackle this problem aggressively, and right from day 1. They need bo ban all of those, period.
I hope u'l be heard 😊
Posted long possible ways to combat but don’t think it saved but to simplify ( add different location cagatcha “verify if human” ) within game every 1 1/2 hour.
2. In game Gm players that check players upon seeing suspicious activity
tab targeting, you expecting WHAT?
I really hope they watch your video and address the problem before weastern release
One of the easier ways to prevent botting is by introducing a Buy-To-Play model. Make T&L $15 or so out the door cost to access and play the game, and you'll see bot numbers go down tremendously. Bots can enter an MMO's ecosystem by the hundreds of thousands like they did with Lost Ark, which is what ultimately killed the game for me. If there's a cost to making a bot account to play the game in the first place, then each individual bot MUST produce more than $15 worth of revenue before it is permanently banned so the botters can make profit. If Lost Ark cost $15 to play, sure the player numbers would have been far lower overall, but the game would be in a far better shape and I would most likely still be playing it. Now, out the door costs isn't going to 100% solve the problem, but it will cut down on bot numbers by a massive margin, and that is what counts. I hope AGS will implement this so T&L isn't DOA in the West, but I'm not very hopeful.
Back in the day, this helped. But we live in a day where technology and Internet is where money is spent. Bots and their companies will continue to exist as long as people pay for their services. Yes, they will take a hit from a game pricetag but it will not stop them because players are still paying for their services. Im the end, these companies are still making money. Only when they don't make money is when they will stop botting.
In this day and age, the only way to really stop botting is nothing. You can't ever stop it because of the tech we have. But companies can help slow it down by having a team to actively search and ban bots and active players botting
IN A KOREAN GAME?! NO FUCKING WAY!
Bots are probably ran by game devs of the game that wants extra cash on the side. It doesn't look good for NCSOFT to directly sell gold and would drive away a lot of legit players and they know that there will be illegal gold sellers no matter what. Why not tap into the market themselves and not have to report their earnings? Look what Nexon did with Maplestory in terms of manipulating drop rates. There is nothing stopping game devs from doing everything they can to maximize their profit on a game that has a shelf life of 6 months.
Its impossible to get rid of the bots. It would take real time monitoring to eliminate them which isn't feasible. Its the fundamental flaw of all MMO's in this style.
This is actually a perfect use case for AI. You could absolutely program an AI to look for patterns associated with botting. And even have the ai message the person with an in-game response survey the AI randomizes. A player grinding monotonously would be annoyed. But the bots will ignore and fail it. The ai can work 24/7 and keep things under control. The only cost would be in first purchasing the core ai program. And the labor/time spent programming and teaching it. After that, you just let it do its thing.
Guild Wars actually have that since GW1 they monitor the players pathing since bot has the same pathing multiple times.
I doubt bots will ever be completely eradicated. This issue has persisted since the release of L1-L2. While these games may be old, the presence of bots is inevitable, particularly in NC games. Good luck! It's plausible that these bots were either created or perhaps tolerated in the game to facilitate monetization.
Botting in the west will be a freaking nightmare and given that AGS is not able to find a solution for games like Lost Ark for 2 years now worries me. TL has a solid foundation and if given some more time it can be an absolutely amazing game. Would be sad to see it dying because of out of control botting and cheating.
Don't worry, we just saw the atmosphere on the Asian servers and that happens in all the games they play. on the eu servers it'll be much more а rare
But I agree with the author of the vid
well if u ask NCSoft to fight botting, in Lineage 2 they put "legal" bot into the game...
Any form of RMT is annoying, but bot/auto-macro is the big nono for me personally.
when bot came... that's the game begins.....
If a brand new game is already merging servers to gain competition.. that spells doom
They can, they just wont
we should be able to PK like in lineage 2, death bot is useless bot
Yep!
No wonder they wanted to add a autoplay system in their game coz they dont wanna deal with real botting😂 bunch of incompetent devs😂😂😂 p2w garbanzo
so this is why they geard like hell
useless bots
If its known they barely ban bots, more ppl will do it. If its known they ban regularly, then ppl are less likely to risk their account. Its that simple.
I love pay to win, botting however needs resolved in every game.
They removed astral hunting so he could use it.
This is why lineage just broke down and allowed bottling 😊
Company should just ad botting to banned behaviours in their game's terms and conditions. Then bring the 🔨
They take out auto hunt and then people create it hahaha
I see a lot of delulu people in comments thinking AGS will and can do something about botters. I guess past experience means nothing for some people lmao
For botting issue, just use wad bdo have used. Is very simple. The game.detect u doing the same thing over n over again for quite sometimes = bot, it will appear a huge 999ap black spirit and 1 shot u. There u go, now u are kissing the floor, unable to do anything. Of course he able to revive and bot again. The system will trigger the black spirit again after detect abnormalities on the character doing same thing,same pattern, same key
Pretty sure AGS will handle the botting in this game unlike in Lost Ark... right? Right? lol
Thank you for sharing! I think you are "wrong" when thinking they cannot remove autoplay" and still let botting happen. This is exactly what players were asking for and NCSoft gave it with a smiling face. Autplay and botting only for SOME players. On the same hand extreme low drop rates, so only the botters get loot. There is no need to ban the botters, and no company will do this, most of them have hidden subsidiaries selling stuff and making a second market, opening hidden code for those "licensed individuals". My idea is, make drop rate going down for people who constantly operate in the same area. If someone is using the exact same coordinates for more than one hour, just let him get nothing. Or let drop free for other players who want to farm the area. If I can see the botters easily as a normal player, NCSoft can more easily track them down with GMs or devs...but they have no real intention to do so^^
You're right man!
p2w + bots = bye bye T&L
I'm sure devs will somehow sort this out before the global release... unless they want a nearly empty game in which devs can dance around 😂
There was bots problem in L2 and they did nothing about it so do not expect much.
Bring back Autocombat LOL xD
Don't forget to check your guild partners as well. 🤣🤣 You know, your allies do. But I didn't dare bring in the evidence. Because you're afraid of canceling your alliance with him. 😂
What alliance has all the bots now. KR+West alliance is currently bot free. What members are so ignorant. I bet Hooky sent you all here. You guys have no sense of moral or ethics
broo Lineage 2 was 99% bots, at least you could kill them ( PK
NO problem at all. I am all in. Am i a bot?
Make it pay 2 play with monthly subscription plan. Aren't we keen to pay for a polished title, invest in it's development instead of constantly checking "new upcoming mmo" contents? If this can prevent from issues like p2w or botting, then it's a win win, isn't it ?
i don't understand people who bot like why??? .stop ruining the game for everyone. thank you for calling them out so much, i love your content.
thank you so much!
even your alliance is using macros/boting, especially szymons, but huge thumbs up for bringing this to light! no matter if its green or blue, all bots must be banned. game would be much better without them, also without unofficial alliances and with more open world pvp zones...
actually open world pvp in bots favourite zones or possibility to declare war and be able to kill ppl from war everywhere would be also the way to decrease afk farming players and bot guilds..
Autoplay was not removed from the game lmao
what worrys me the most is that they are not talking about it! game will die very fast if the bots are this free
positive
the response time these devs are taking to address in-game issues and cheating is concerning.
There is no solution to botting. If they could stop it they would have.
@@Corusame maybe but in game gms can definitely catch them + a report system with reward incentives.+ban mac address instead of ip(pretty sure wow had that) . maybe they won't catch them all but at least people will treat people who bot like hackers and cheaters
This is why New World died TBH, Amazon dosnt seem to care about botting.
If people already figured out how to bot and afk macro, then this game is pretty much ruined the moment it hits the west because AGS hasn't done anything about the bots in LOA so far aside from ban waves, which is not a solution to the problem. That disappoints me because I was looking forward to playing this for a long time.
Botting and Ai will destroy the MMO genre for sure. At least in its current form. Only smaller, community moderated, persistent experiences will be able to feel authentic in the future. Theres just now way a large company like NCsoft can moderate thens of thousands of players. You can get a moderator AI, but as bots get better, i dont think you will be able to distinguish.
Korean developers don't pay attention. English is not their main language
NCSoft please just stop making games..
disappointing and i dont have faith that any action will be taken really :( time will tell... been following this game thru your channel for a while now, i played dark age of camelot back in the day and this is the closest i've seen to that game in 20 years
Am I the only one realizing this? if you ranked no.1 on guild ranking vs WHAT(with botting), how did you beat them in ranking? The possible way to beat that is if you have more bots on your side.
No bro they went hyper active and everyone on OneHP was almost 12/7 online. You can see some of them stream their activities.
@@MrSydjames not true, they put all the highest activity people to main guild, abusing and exploiting loopholes is kinda cheating too, but yeah, he puts it as "mechanic" nobody knew about
So basically what they did is BIG BRAIN Hoard points. They are so down in ranking, maybe top 30s so enemy would " think oh wow, we are wining big time on points now." and they felt secure rank 1 and slacks for a couple of days.. until last 48 hrs suddenly HPguild dumps all their activity points, guild boss points etc...
@@LemonBreadEnjoyer its not BIG BRAIN move lol. They abuse the loophole which is transferring ally players with high activity points to their guild.
@@xGosu WHAT did the same though. so fair game
This is somehow ironic...or not. Bots ruined Lineage 2, p2w dropped a tombstone on it.
Old L2 vets would know this is pure history repeating
yes a new generation will suffer what we suffered in lineage 2. Not gonna waste my time with this game I already know what will happen. Bot for farm and also programs for help in pvp and so on, pure waste of time and NCSoft dont care making legit players feel stupid for keep being legit.
p2w=bots incentive, so yeah it all comes down to p2w
To be honest - the alliance system is broken, bots running rampant on KR, balancing challeanges, "lack" of content - I'm really eager to play it (already tried it before the security update hit) but I cannot see it succeeding in the long run.
Lack of content = I mean there is enough to do. I just don't think what you have to do will keep players entertained for long - currently.
balancing challenges = this is the least of my concerns but still a concern.
botting = well as said in the video
alliance system = this really needs to change as well
All this is correct, but a bit disingenuous. You should turn an eye to your alliance aswell, there's plenty there that are doing it ;)
Did bots kill Lost Ark?
Yeah they did.
Grind game = a lot of bots.
If they will do this game with less gring and more normal content - they will solve this issue with bots.
why tell CZcams about Bots! your trippin
ofc botting is everywhere on a mobile game. so ez to hack inputs
Yes i agree, have many many hours in kr, and seen allot from what guild and other use bots. But i also seen allot allies to hp use bots, so plz put up video on that to insted of just show enemeys guild using bots. This is a big problem with bots and understand you video but like i said both sides uses bots.
😂😂😂😂😂
hypocritical...
lol watch autoplay coming back be their solution to this.
Hey bro, I am from Brazil and I play in your server in a Brazilian alliance clans. I am not picking sides, but you need to look around your alliance, the SZY clans always used to macro and bot even before the merge. I totaly agree with you, players who use bots/macros have to be punished, but WHAT are not the only one cheating.
I AM NOT DEFENDIND WHAT, just saying that there is a problem from both sides. The problem are not What side or OneHP side, problem are the players who cheat and they are in both sides.
Szymon joined what earlier today, so yeah
Cheaters got to stay together I guess
This comment did not age well
Me deixa chateado ver tantas pessoas vão cair nessa cilada da NCSoft, vai acontecer a mesma coisa que no Lineage2. As pessoas vão quitar ou vão começar a usar bot/programas/rmt também. Não tem escapatória. Como eu sou um jogador que não curte bot/macros/rmt etc vou ficar longe, tentar jogar esse jogo legit e competir é tortura.
AGS gives 0 shits
2y after release amazon bot ark is full of bots, no hope for throne and liberty
Let check your ally guild 🤣🤣🤣
ya i see WHAT guild botting all over the place . big numbers at purelight killing boars for purple gears
I totally agree that bots and macros are a problem and I think there should be bans for everyone who cheats using macros/bots, abusing bugs and exploits. I saw that we are on the same server and coincidentally we are enemies in the game. I don't know if you are aware and I don't know why it is only showing the guild that is against yours, but your SZYMON alliance is responsible for starting the bots on the WHISP server and a large part of the existing bots are theirs. I know that the intention of the video is for the benefit of all players and I thank you for that, but don't just show your enemy's bots, show your team's bots and be impartial because they are ruining our game, which was supposed to be something competitive and for me It's been disappointing.
"Remove the bots" you says. "Don't play a game where botting is meaningful" is my answer. Game must have some trash systems in place when it makes a significant difference whether you botted or not. In any case, thanks for the heads-up, I will skip on this T&L.
You definitely did not play ncsoft games before. metagaming is part of franchise. Botting, hacking accounts of enemy clans, paying real money for some mercenaries to join siege on your side is all the part of the game!
YOU CAN NOT STOP BOTTING!! They could do 0 about it in Lost Ark and it will be the same deal in TL. Only fix is remove P2P trading.
BUT we all need to understand the real cancer and toxicity of this things is us the gamers , maybe not u and me but some of us that do use this methods , its sad to see yet again how humans wanna abuse every single turn to get a step ahead of others than play fair and have fun , no honor no character nothing , just sad..... just hope people understand this is not the devs fault dont think oh yeah but they should deal with it , as if the last 2 decades we don't have bot problems and nobody can deal with them , there is a reason ! just sad man we finally found a good game and as always abusers drain the life and fun out of it....
I played against the What alliance in elyon and farmed atleast 200-300 of those guys on the Sea server. they are so dogshit at every game they play. they just have big numbers. have slayed many guilds like them in albion.
Did anyone noticed BOTs now doing secret dgs? XD
I just stand outside of the dg exit area while w8 tried to get more ppl for next run,, and i saw suspicious players spawns next to me and insta teleport away. I did check they guild, all of they names are random letter characters only 1 leader and rest are just members and the guild is full of them 55+ BOT. I watch them and all of them using gray weapons only. o,O
Are they found a way to have non aggro and skill hack in dg or what is going on? I know the only way to spawn in front of the dg entrance/exit portal is when u leave the dg, u spawn there.
If they find the way to do secret DGs, then this game will die in global very fast for sure, cause bots will destroy the market. High end items what bots can not put they hands on it will cost thousands of lucent while every other item include dg epic trait extracts will sell for almost 0 lucent. GL make lucent to afford 10-20k lucent worth of endgame items as a player who not dumping thousands of USD on the game.
What about ur ally that botting a lot in abyss and fonos ? why dont u record them ?