Pay to Win Update at End-Game (Throne & Liberty)
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- Will not have too much time this week so I wanted to get this quick video out for you guys addressing the P2W in Throne & Liberty. Level 50 Events have started to unlock and after about a month with most Milestones unlocked, here's our understanding of the pay to win.
One thing I forgot to mention was the Battle Pass and Lotties Shop. After completing the battle pass you essentially can continue farming it for additional items of value and this can be sped up through Lucent. This isn't the main form of pay to win but it certainly is another small element of it.
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ALSO!! One thing I forgot to mention was the Battle Pass and Lotties Shop. After completing the battle pass you essentially can continue farming it for additional items of value (sollant, extraction items, emotes, death penalty removers) and this can be sped up through Lucent. This isn't the main form of pay to win but it certainly is another small element of it.
Games like these just comfirm in my mind why it was a good idea to stop playing P2W games. Even if i was rich and could whale everyday I'd feel dirty kerbstomping F2P players. Wheres the fun in beating someone who doesnt stand a chance. I game to get away from the bullshit of real life, not to relive it.
Asian mmos in a nutshell
But they are getting play for free... so then force a box price and subscription? "I am not playing because I have to pay". So why would you feel sorry for anyone that doesn't want to support any game they play? Yes, this game does have strong p2w, not "technical p2w" but if it's free people have nothing to whine about you don't have to pay a cent, but complain that you want to have access to everything identically to someone who pays? They'd go bankrupt. The question is is the FREE TO PLAY option VIABLE given just having to invest more time but you are still competitive. Then yes, I agree a game that is F2P should have a balance of non-paying gameplay that can be competitive if compensated with smarter and longer playing. This game however is not that. BDO, Albion etc are examples of technical pay2win but a free player can easily set themselves up to never have to pay a cent.
@@Despond the point I was making is that you have to consistently pay money to have a good experience. If you don't you'll get flattened. In a game with a strong emphasis on pvp that means it's very P2W, much more so than if it was just subscription because the ones who pay more will have an overwhelming advantage. The long and short of it is if you don't have unlimited funds you'll always be on the back foot no matter how much you play.
Well then yes, I agree 100% with that scenario and that's how I judge a game's degree or severity of p2w. Are you basically coerced to swipe or else you're @ an unreasonable and significant disadvantage that even extra gaming hours cannot compensate. I find also any game with KR honing systems are the biggest culprits.
If it was up to me I would love MMOs to just be one flat subsciprtion and everyone gets access to everything, but that's not the best way to make money these days. Even WoW now has a box price+sub but also the token system/cash shop that basically inflated everything because people are buying tokens to sell for gold and get raid carries and bypass months of progression.@@Corusame
just watching this makes me not want to play not because its p2w just because its fucking annoying as shit as all eastern mmos seem to be
awesome vid! you not only explained how is the p2w but also explained the upgrading gear system so well, thanks a lot! :D
So, in a nutshell, on the prior VoD you weren't sponsored yet, so you gave us a player PoV about the P2W state of the game. Now you are being sponsored you tell us what the studio wants us to think about the P2W state of the game!😅
After being able to play the game for 3 weeks, there are three conclusions that I'm getting: 1) The game doesn't offer anything new (for me) that any other MMORPG already has. As you said in another video, Archeage/Lineage/WoW with newer skins... will be a honeymoon of a few months for a few. 2) It is definitively P2W and will get even more, the foundation is already there. 3) The bot problem will be the same as LA once releases in the west.
Give me a name of an MMORPG Game that doesn't have a problem with bots.
As you said in another video, Archeage/Lineage/WoW with newer skins... -> It's maybe because it's the point of this game. With peoples who made Lineage 2 who work on this one you know brudah?
It's the only reason i will try this game.
@@Adartaer Black Desert Online. Some cheaters yes but bots nope
You also have to buy BDO which deters bots.
@@grandtheftaudio6386 You also need to buy and sub to WoW yet they have massive botting issues. You can buy BDO for 1€ from any 3rd party site so the price def is not the reason here
The cynic in me is saying this is set up to milk players once they are invested. Will be interesting to see how the game updates.
It's an Asian mmo ofc they'll milk the player
@@MoistYoghurtWhy even make that distinction
Because they probably think Western MMO's dont lol@@MrCarlWax
@@MrCarlWax their dreaded grind, my glorious titanforge farm or something.
@@MrCarlWaxare you new here?
How does the gear upgrading work exactly? Is it like Lost ark where you farm mats for months and hope the rng doesnt screw you and you actually progress or do you farm the mats, click the item and it is 100% as long as you have the mats needed.
every click increases the bar to the next level by an amount specified by the current level of the gear and the "hit" you land on the score. You can get a common, good, greater and special hit where each will give you a percentage to the level-up. If you say that you just take the "common" roll into account, you can lay it out how many you would need max, but the pity system feels a lot smoother than games like LA. You will always have progress towards the level-up but it will most likely take more than a tap or two on higher levels
12:01 i know this is OT, but do I understand with all the BiS.... there is not option(point) to freely customize builds/characters (for even if u do, you will just get ostracized/flamed etc, for having bad gear/wrong build etc) ? Aka the games wants you do follow a set path?
There are a lot of different bis weapons that vary depending on the build you’re going for.
@@KanonXOI believe OP's intention is to ask: Even with multiple options present, do you anticipate based on your experience that meta-defining builds will cause gatekeeping from guilds/activities within the game? If I invest in a certain build off-meta, will I experience issues in competitive content?
I think anybody who doesn’t understand that “Korean MMO = P2W garbage, grind trash” is a universal constant, is lost in cope.
true that! look at Blade and Soul, trash P2W garbages
As long as you dont need to swipe to progress and clear dungeons then thats fine with me.
Guys, remember Black Desert at launch vs a few months into the game? yeah...
i remember a CM speaking out of turn. and many smooth brain players thinking the western cashshop was getting special treatment.
whats that got to do with TL?
What server are you on Kanon?
WHAT MOUSEPAD IS THAT I NEED THE DESIGN FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES
It's the Shylili blo'blast mousepad, you're welcome 😎
Is this on the KR servers? I'm so keen to play this game but it's not in the west yet right?
Such a handsome fella
Stoopzz rizz lol
What is the difference between critical hit and heavy attack and how do I see which of them I land on an enemy
Critical hit is hitting with the highest range your character has while heavy attack is hitting twice
yoiu can open stats and read there its written
Crit hit is chance. Heavy attack is when x2 pop ups
Can you explain the guild farming for items mechanic? Aree you specifying an item you want and if they loot one it goes to you?
The items in the guild storage is farmed from world bosses and guild raid (instanced version of world bosses).
@@Kam1I believe the OP is asking how it is decided who in guild gets what gear, or what is the priority system if multiple people want a specific piece of gear?
@COA5T depends on the guild. We have a loot council consisting of officers and the leader. On the guild menu, it keeps track of contribution points. Because the game is heavily focused around the guild, the people with high contribution points and participating in guild activities usually have priority.
@@Kam1 Thanks for the reply.
To the OP: You will most likely be at the mercy of your guild.
T hanks for the replies, do the items go into guild storage when they drop or is it a member that gets the item and then decides to gift it to the guild for redistribution?@@COA5T
I wanna play it alreadyyy when is it coming to NA or LAS?
Hello Kanonxo 👋
Yep!
Thanks for this honest vid man!
I agree with You 100% on this one.
As much as I would have enjoyed more a monthly sub system, this isn't ff14 so whoever wants to play will play this style too, for some extent I will surely play it too when the global release arrives.
Is it not available to download to try out? I want to see the cute pets
This game gives me a lot of issues like lost ark's. And it has open world and guild PvP situations. But at least no gearing and alts hell.
f2p player have to have alts to farm lucent
if you are f2p or a low spender do not play any korean mmo. these games intentionally make f2p players feel like shit in order to get you spending. also f2p players in p2w games are pretty much npcs that whales look down on and feel superior to. lost ark is p2w trash and so will TL and every other korean mmo.
Rundown of build dagger/gs? 😮
Well, I will have to feel how the content feels before I see if the cash shop messes up the experience. What I mean back in the day BDO barely gave any inventory space so you had to swipe, but now you get so many you can live without swiping. So if content basically is locked in a way that you have to swipe you will feel it.
Thanks for the update, really unfortunate. Hopefully it changes before it comes west
So by the time TL releases in Europe/US (2024 Q2, iirc), there _will_ be purple items in the AH, from the Korean players, right? (assuming they globalize AH, which seems logical)
why would they globalize AH? lol AH is not even the same in other servers of korea
What a shame, gone are the days of 30 day subscription MMORPGs and no ingame shop.
It will be great if u explain how to get easy epic trait lvl4 through stacking blessing at rare weapon stage
Yo kanon, you can use trait from green and blue weapons or gear, you dont need same item with same trait you need same for unlock it
Yes well aware, at a 10% chance at a grade lower
@@KanonXO y its cheap + can be done by market. P.s as I have information amazon games will have a different market than we have now in KR
@@MMOLater yes I mention that you don’t need the base item for the upgrades, only to unlock. My point is it’s still difficult at this stage to get all your traits unlocked for bis items. Haven’t seen a single heavy melee attack up for morokai.
everything you said just proved the game is 100% pay to win
P2W in my logic is that you can buy better tiems with cash, if you can farm that item in game its not p2w its just you can swipe,but nobody judge if you want to spend money
@@LithuanianBadger If you and I both play the exact same amount of time but one of us swipes money, the one swiping will have an advantage. That's p2w. Stop rationalizing this bullshit business practice in circles. I hate that you people have allowed MMOs to do this.
@@StandardsFtw who cares about person who swipes? Its about proccess how you get to that and not if you spend 100€ and play game for a month and drop it because there is no content
Who cares if people swipe. You won't be competitive anyway, because if games are not p2w then you would complain about jobless players who can farm all day. It's always something with you whiners
@@StandardsFtw same time spent, casher gets advantage = pay to progress, its seems like many people forgot how koreans mmorpg used to be where u had 0 chance at getting anywhere near BiS without paying, for example gear gets deleted when not upgraded woth cash materials...nowadays atleast u have the posibility to farm Cash Shop items in game but people start shouting p2w because casher has 2 Dexerity more than non casher for 3 days untill non casher catches up😅
Just heard about this game. Checked it out, saw it was made by NCSOFT, 2nd video on CZcams is yours and about P2W mechanics. What a Shocker. How many games has NCsoft ruined with piss poor monetization options now?
So, while yes, this is 100% a pay to win game, and from someone (myself) that does not like, even hates p2w. I can confidently say, this is a better p2w system then some other games. Someone with free time, if you can just farm items and sell them for the prem currency, it feels more like pay for speed. IMO, that doesn't feel so bad, I can see how annoying it might be to others tho, with less time and or money. (Note I have not played the game, and this is my opinion from only watching streams and videos on yt.)
But you pay for speed of progression, but not directly buffing items(?) like damage add or or whatever that are exclusive to the shop?
I remember you saying that Lost Ark p2w isn’t that bad. It turned out it was.
it depend. LA get p2w at later on vs at the start. but yeah cant blame the guy.
I can see that but also this is Korea. They did not state they were removing pay to win. that was amazon who said they would limit the Pay to Win. So we must wait for the notes and facts from North American release.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. No. It will be nearly identical in NA like every other KR MMO business model.
great breakdown, look forward to checking out game when it releases globally
mf dont u dare steal my name
would be interesting to know what whaling in this game would cost
Thanks for posting this. This game appeared on my radar this week and is now crossed off my list.
how do i play this in america?
Getting some lost ark/blade and soul vibes where early on everything is fine but as time go and your reasonably achievable day 30 adventurer swords +9 turn into ANUSFUCKER OF THE BLACK ABYSS + 30 [Enchanted] [Awakened] [Transcended] then newcomers aren't coming in and f2p/dolphins players just quit from never catching up.
is lucent / sollant account wide?
Can you trade in game currency
No, you can't trade in-game currency with other players. Not even tradeable items, gears, ect.
Thanks for mentioning that it will be more P2W in the future. The fact that there is no inventory of the P2W items is like saying LAO was not P2W in the first month because you could not buy gems 10 on the market. Well, yeah people are likely to gear themselves and their guild first (or cater to the ultra-whales and put those rare listings). Now, of course, it's all expected, and if the game is fun and not completely unbalanced (especially in PvP), as you seem to say, then that level of P2W is simply what's unfortunately deemed "acceptable" nowadays.
What is the actual gap in combat between a fully kitted player and an average player? Can skill make up for it?
no. 0 chance. Someone with gear absolutely destroys anyone without gear. It makes a HUGE difference.
@@Mordarim Ugh. Sounds like the definition of P2W to me.
Yea thats it for me. Sad. Will wait and see if amazon changes this with global launch@@ptahm1808
Was looking forward to playing this but it seems it's going to be region blocked for Africa and Middle East
Do you need to grind alts on this game to keep up? Was tired of that crap in Lost Ark. Still seems like fact you can buy the premium currency for gold + bots gold selling it is most likely this game will have the same p2w issues as LA. I just fear it will end up leading to the same gatekeeping. At least LA had fun combat, don't think I want to spend a ton of time for a mediocre looking tab target combat based game.
There is no Alt Grinds.
It is NCsoft they will put those parchments in events for purchases like NCsoft always do and it will be like $5-$10 a pop.
Really can't wait to play this. I have a VPN but I wouldn't know how to get an account over there.
Monetization in Korea is different then west releases. Not all the time but most of them, yes.
Thank you Brother... Patience
I like your thoughts, but u do waffle allot XD
The p2w looks pretty bad tbh, regardless i'll give it a try when it launches
What matters is how enjoyable the endgame is. *P2W or not doesn't matter at all*
LA was as p2w as it could get from day 1 yet many people played it for thousands of hours and only stopped because how brainded, stressful and unfun the weekly/daily content was.
Heres hoping that Amazon makes some changes to make it less P2W. I understand they cant get rid of all of it but everything helps.
What will happen when lefendary gear releases and you'll need copies of each ? Only whales will be able to buy them off the market and if you don't get super lucky to drop one for yourself you'll hit a RNG wall. Doesn't this remind you of smth that's in Lost Ark ?
I think you are wrong , it is VERY pay to win. In my server I use the staff from Paola's chest, all the traits are available. I was lucky enough to get on my 2nd chest the heavy magic attack and bought the crit with lucent from Marketplace, of course I won't pay for this game so I am out of lucents but someone can literally get a weapon to max traits if the swipe. Moreover, there is a big wall in game with Sollant, that you can bypass by buying Epic Marids and sell them, blue ones give you I think around 500k Sollants. That means a swiper can get max rank their skills which is very important, and max rank full traits(in most pieces) for gear. In my server there is a tank(maybe more) who has 20k HP for the past 3 weeks. 3 of us attacked him with normal gear and couldn't even get him to 17k.
So if someone willing to spend thousands of dollars they will be way ahead of everyone
Dont think, of future, dont prepare for future. Just download, log in, create character, go on an adventure. And decide on your principle policy - Do you want to pay for extras? cosmetics? boost etc. w.e - Then have no 2nd doubts. stick to your policy and enjoy your game.
If you plan on not paying for anything with your monies, and want to just enjoy the free play experience? then thats it, stick to that, whatever you do, or decide. Play, Have fun, No stress. No drama, no negatives. Just PLAY. Adventure. IN THE Present. dont worry about Future, or What will happen , or what IFF. my god, just PLAY Have fun, face challenges, deal with them like a GAMER and log out!
My fellow gamers. Return to gamer mindset.
PS (ALL above said, Be wise all the same, be aware of the features of these games, as applied by these devs and publishers. Know where you stand, and stand by your policy in how you as a gamer think games features should be. So we can continue to stress to these *Apparently greed stricken devs* what we gamers call standards we apprechiate.)
So many folks are gonna be disappointed when this comes to the west.
The game looks good. But due to their monetization, I won't play it. And the fact that good equipment is only rarely listed is not an argument for me.
It's fully P2W let's just settle with that. Anyways, thanks for the details. Will check in on Western release but will jump ship once it turns out to be predatory P2W.
this system reminds me of archeage unchained, it's p2w but it's still requieres you to play the game 12hs/day to compete regardless of how much money you spend, so the guys that play 12+hs/day and pay will dominate in a 2 months , then the game will get updates and it will keep increasing the gap
Another bs mmo, i stick to bdo ngl, thx for the effort Kanon tho ur always not biased and speak truth
Correct me if i'm wrong, but my opinion of Pay To Win is when you can only win with real money. As Pay to Progress is when you can either pay real money or gain through gameplay, which i'm fine with the last one.
These days any form of Pay2Progress is equal to Pay2Win for 98% of people. I'm in the same boat as you and i literally couldn't care less. If i'm able to do everything without being paywalled in the game, it's not P2W to me. Even Lost Ark isn't P2W to me and i have 6 chars 1600+ and play it since day 1.
Not great, I wish precious stones weren't listed, but at the end of the day it's more of a catch-up pay to win used for eating guild leftovers.
Its only pay to win if your doing pvp , but like how much real life money would i need to get kitted out
Been playing roughly 2 weeks full +9 blue weapon and armor and play fairly casually, the game is one of the best korean games when it comes to gearing and how much mats they actually give out for not a lot of work. I come from a background in Lineage II & Black Desert Online, T&L is a much better gearing experience hands down.
All this P2W won't effect any gameplay till after the market is flooded with mats for upgrades which won't be a thing till a month into the game as everyone is going to be needing all these mats to upgrade their own gear, hence noone is going to be selling all these mats when they still need their upgrades. So two weeks in and I'm able to pvp and I'm not getting 1 shotted like I would be getting in BDO compared to a whale + no lifer.
I agree mostly, but at the begining everyone wants to upgrade and there are not going to be a lot of mats, so the price would he higher, if I can advise you can always sell them early release, and buy them later when there are more on market for a lower price, if you don't mind gearing up later ofc.
My head just went blank as you explained all the currencies and "enhancing stuff" Another game to pass on.
Let's hope the western version will be less p2w..
so you can either farm and grind or speed it up with money which is fine by me as in all modern games...apart from skills which is ok again
hope hordes of people aggressively fight back against the p2w and get the devs to stop that shit
So the point is... without pay2win and swiping your card... can you actually get endgame equipment easily with the amount of currency you get from game activities or you get a very low amount and you must swipe or farm for years? That is the only important point. Because in Lost ark, BDO or any other like that, it does not matter that people swipe their card and get gear... because you can actually get everything, easily just by playing. But on the other hand, in Lineage 2 official(ncsoft), you get a ridiculous small amount of currency by playing, so low that you can´t even upgrade the lowest gear in months unless you pay2win. And that is what people actually want to know, in which side is Throne and Liberty?
I’m never a competitive player so I don’t care for if a game is p2w or not. But of course I’m appreciate when is not.
But being realistic here. The question was never if the TL would be p2w. But how much p2w it is. Same with every other mmo that has launched and will be launch.
Apparently ff14 and guilds wars are good games on this aspects, but I didn’t like them much. 🤷🏻♀️
In short:
The game is P2W. However for the first 1 month of the game being released the "gap" between F2P and P2W players may not be that wide. Though, once the auction house becomes more fleshed out with more listings of rarer items then those that pay will have a more of an advantage as they can just buy most items from the auction.
Didn't spend even 1 cent to this game. Only farm and sell on marketplace. 1 month - 63 items sold for over 14k lucent.
Have blue-purple items full trait, 8-10lvl equipments upgrade. All purple skills. Dagger +great sword. Helpie server. Iron wolf guild!!
We still don't know if it will be the same in the west.
Ask that like this: Are they willing to serve to west with lower profit compared to Asia?
1- Yes, no p2w elements.
-yes because there is much more people to reach.
2- No, they wont.
-no because there is much more people to sell.
They already mentioned in a live stream that they will keep the same monitization everywhere
@@Tek21502 ah! well that is bad.
Adding a currency exchange like gw2 (gems in gold). fixed. :D
The gear race better not be crazy 3-6 months down the line. I dont like the fact you need multiple of the same weapons to rng the trait you want. Sounds ridiculous.
i got bored and went back to GW2
Well this actually makes me a little more excited. Knowing I'll be at a somewhat even playing field for the first 1-2 months is huge. Then by then I should be able to keep up with most whales who didn't start day one.
TLDW: Its pay 2 win, DUH, its free to play
Not every F2P is P2W.
@@DerJuvens name one
@@JoaoPedroDamaso what specifically? MMORPGs? Well tbh for MMORPGs it's kinda rough, but Albion Online isn't P2W, unless you consider goldsellers, which exist in basically any game with currency. In Albion Online it doesn't have an effect though. The lack of games without P2W should still not make it normal.
Albion online not P2W? idk bout that so far I heard it is very P2W@@DerJuvens
@@DerJuvens yet f2p games are always the most expensive games.
Not a surprise tbh 😂😂
there are already many free to players to make $200 amount of lucent by selling one purple drop item.
as long as there is nothing in the cash shop that you cant get with any other way by playing then its all good
It looks to be similar to warframe monetization which is good.
What happen when everyone want to be in the cool.guild that achieve pvp and raids? You have one big and powerful guild and several crappy small ones that will never win world PVP and keep down :( ...
Gamers have forgotten who the enemy is. P2W,P2Progress,microtransactions are all just more ways to get less game for more money. Its sad the gaming industry has fallen so far.
What caliber of gun do they use?
@@6foot7dad im sure that has some meaning that I am missing. But, if your asking me personally then my answer would be yes...
every thing requiring solant or literally taxing that much is not good tbh
Lost ark cured me from playing p2w games. It was the best most fair clearly straight up p2w game I've ever played but it still ended up feeling as a chore. The only MMO I've played that didn't give me that chore feeling so far is FFXIV but the combat and PVP is not as good as WOW if those two could have a baby, it would print money.
Oof. Yep.
so you have 900k solent and 4k lucent for auction great :D so player buy lucent for totaly p2w items :D
so u just play 24/7 or swipe osam no comment
You don't have to explain yourself man. Just move on I appreciate your videos.
❤🔥
i just dont see what this game offers for it to be so p2w. why play this over bdo or new world which has better combat?
It's not bad, and being a f2p game, revenue has to be made somehow. IMHO, it seems right now to be a good mix of p2w, and f2p
Hard pass on this game already got too many games i gota swipe for lmao
It's p2w but I've seen worse. If I can play the game and get strong anyways, I'm down for It. my only concern is that the game is heavy pvp oriented, This feels like Aion all over again
Good. They're preparing for aion 2!
@@ifeawosika966 aion 2 already at the end of being finished, its mobile game, like literally mobile game the same as bns2
@@ChoJun69 It's not. Aion 2 will be a full fledged mmo. They talked about it already
@@ifeawosika966 hmm, how recent is this info? Ill look it up since they kinda changed throne and liberty to be full pc+console game, but still.
@ChoJun69 It was in the Financial report for 2023. They claim they are working on aion 2 and it will be for both PC and mobile. I'm sure they learned their lesson after T&L got shit on by their initial mobile focus features.
Oh no! Please don't make me play the game to get my gear! Repeating dungeons, events etc. to slowly get my gear up is the very reason to play. Usually, once you have that gear, there is not much left to do anyway in games.
to be honest i cant be asked, these people in comments crying about p2w then paying 15$ a month in wow and 80$ on top of that for cosmetics like ffs... complain fiesta. Game is great, i'll play it , cry all you want
So its not immediately P2W... its bait-and-switch P2W.
It'll be p2w once you're too invested to quit and so you'll just suck it up and deal with it until the next big mmo pulls you away?
Outside of GW2?
GW2 is full P2W... Some of that community takes major copium to explain how swiping through the primary rewards isn't P2W, it's ludicrous.
I dont understand the argument. I know you say its 100% P2W but then you follow it up with "well the best of the best gear is really hard to get and theres nothing listed"
Its like saying yeah, you can just swipe and buy headhunter off the AH, but its so rare there arent even any listed! So the gap between F2P and P2W is purely due to scarcity, not because of some game system that doesnt let people lap you with a credit card?
EDIT: if anything doesnt that make it worse? You get your BiS weapon but youre not done, you need to get it again, perfectly rolled several more times. Seems like the best case scenario is the person whaling isnt even playing the game so they arent seeing the drops youd see running dungeons or doing guild stuff. So yeah i guess if you were just sitting there waiting for the best stuff to be listed on the AH, its not that bad lol
I summarize the whole thing at the end with text. I was trying to explain why the power creep isn’t bad atm while being clear the game system is for sure pay to win.