Why I Prefer the Original Mario Maker Over Mario Maker 2.
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
- I never quite enjoyed Super Mario Maker 2 as much as I enjoyed the original Super Mario Maker. Which is kind of weird, because I really, really do like Super Mario Maker 2. It makes tons of incredible improvements while featuring basically all the content of the original Super Mario Maker. It’s as flawless as a sequel can get. At least on paper. But there is this one thing that Super Mario Maker 2 really messed up. In this video we are going to take a look at Super Mario Maker 2’s fundamental flaw.
00:00 - Intro
01:21 - Not Joy, Not Touch
08:20 - Strange Decisions
14:43 - Simply Complicated
------------------Credits for the Music-------------------------
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time OST - Gerudo Valley
Paper Mario Origami King OST - Sweetpaper Valley
------Holfix
/ holfix
HolFix - Beyond The Kingdom
• [Free Music] HolFix - ...
------Kevin MacLeod
"Adventure Meme"
Kevin MacLeod incompetech.com
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
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Nintendo be like: “For Breath of the Wild’s sequel, we redesigned the controls such that it would be fully playable in single Joy-Con mode”
It's called BotW 2 because it's a 2-player game duh
@@caiofukushima1669 The fact that it has the number 2 in the title does not mean that it can be played with 2 players, for example, I can put the number 2 to a game but it will only be a continuation of the previous one but not because it has the 2 it will be 2 players
@@jeremyhillaryboob4248 yeah, he doesn't know only Whatsapp 2 can be played with two people
@@Perla_Casanova bruh
@@Perla_Casanova /s
I appreciate how the collection of framed photos keeps expanding
What if the frame of collection photos kept expanding
I would give this comment a thumb up but it has 69.... eh
@@torbiboy3623 that's not funny give 'em a like
421 likes huh, wonder who changed it
I too enjoy this
My biggest issue is that the original felt like nothing was restricted to you. Literally everything was an experiment and it didn't hold back on a new possibility. In the sequel, I can't put 1 ups in the ground night, and heaven forbid I place water in any area that is not a "forest." Don't forget that I can't have an aesthetic only night background. It has to be tied to these braindead things. I feel if these things were present in the original, it would always allow me to fully customize. They missed a lot of really creative opportunities if they would allow complete unrestricted customization.
Yes!! This exactly! Couldn't have said it any better myself, thank you! The fact that almost all the night themes are just a simple ugly "space" background is so lazy, let alone giving us toggle to turn on and off night effects. And the way they're holding back course parts only available for certain gamestyles for the sake of the "uniqueness" to it is so infuriating. Can't even have a decently designed SM3DW level since we got no pop up backgrounds, semisolids, and bridges. It's like they don't want us to experiment.
And no pipestacking, which I loved.
yeah, i would not mind under ONE condition - if they stayed consistent, which they haven't:
There is no such thing as a spike block in any of the Mario games.
There is no skewer in SMB1.
The list goes on, but I cant think of anymore off the top of my head...
It feels like they randomly except things to be in SMM1/2 to stop any restrictions, while declining other things in order for it to be consistent of the theme and era the level is set in.
That was what was most frustrating for me...
"Just pick one!" I keep thinking to myself
Im shocked nobody has mentioned it before...
@@alex.g7317 or just make all items available IN ALL THEMES!
@@alex.g7317Heck, Ceave himself brought up shellmets not being in 3D World. Shellmets aren’t in _any_ Mario game besides Mario Maker, so why are they not allowed in 3D World? What’s the point in making so many things inconsistent between styles if it only limits your creativity?
I came from SMM1 and I never use any touch screen inputs anymore. I feel like even though the controller is not as good as it could be, I can still build faster with a controller
👀
Same here
69 likes Nice
It's frustrating because the broad control scheme as it is now works with everything. Which is bad, because it means that there are functions (or lack thereof) for touch despite you using controller and vice versa leading to it feeling half-baked no matter what side you're on.
@@lethauntic same for me
Hardware store checkout employee: "Another video, huh?"
Ceave, with a frame in hand: "You bet your mushrooms."
Mushrooms or shiny, yet deadly coins?
@@yo-yokirby6663 Mushrooms and shiny, yet deadly coins are not worthy of betting with. No, the only thing worthy of this honor is (holy) fuzzies.
@@lunasophia9002 lol
The funniest thing about that is imagining the conversation in his dialect
@@yo-yokirby6663 yum yum mushrooms*
9:30
the even more annoying part is that the two player building mode ONLY WORKS with a sideways joycon...
Why?
Nintendo like *beeg money* that's why
@@chamtheman551 you're talking about the company that didn't make the painfully obvious choice of giving the game DLC in the form of extra game styles right?
@@Marshall.R well you see... Nintendo is Nintendo
IKR?!
@@chamtheman551 they would have made more money if they let people use full controllers for multiplayer tho
You know, I often find myself being way more creative in SMM than in SMM2, it is easier and more enjoyable to do stuff and seeing the other objects in the selection menu would always make me have new ideas.
agreed. my SMM2 stages aren't horrible, but they certainly aren't great. not saying my SMM levels were much better, but they were better.
@@sockcloset9405 also Mario Maker 2 has a bunch of crap levels made by kids that didn’t exist in Mario Maker 1
@@trentoninnewjersey
I think that’s due to the fact that since not as many kids (well people in general) used a WiiU compared to the the Switch there are more kids uploading levels in Super Mario Marker 2 compared to the first Super Mario Maker. Not all levels from kids are bad but my levels from when I was a less mature kid…
The level editor in SMM1 was just so fun to use! not only was the Ui better, but the shaking mechanic had more charm to it than just tapping something, mystery mushrooms were tons of fun to use for themed levels, and there were several easter eggs to find such as the fly swatting minigame, big mushrooms giving everything mustaches, or simply goombas exploding when you shake them. I'm also sad that they got rid of the dizzy and rave sound effects.
ye, i dont have the wii u version , only the 3ds version, and i love making levels
Dizzy and rave are the most Mario Wonder-y effects you could have possibly named, wow.
Multiplayer editing isn't really that good either, honestly. When you need to swap your item, player 2 gets to have a quick menu from what I can remember, but player 1 has to pause the entire game just to change their selected item.
this is correct, I really hate this feature.. they should seriously do an update all about redoing and remastering their whole UI, get help from the community since they are the ones who will use it.
@@nekosh1ru i spent the last 20 minutes making a stage with a friend for the heck of it and not only was it awful to do with the sideways joycon but the stage sucked and he could really only reliably place solid blocks or normal enemies.
Plus the idea of two people trying to make a level together just sounds like it'd be a mess anyway.
Can confirm personally
It’s awful and I hate it with a FIERY PASSION
I'm glad I'm not left handed because everyone forgets they exist.
yeah i was about to mention that? that sounds like the reason for right stick moving cursor, but even then it’s confusing wether or not they want to prioritize touch controls or controller controls
@@snitchbug mirror a ui mode would cover that, the main issue is just that nobody is ever going to need *both* hands for the same function
@@badmanjones179
yeah of course, that’s not what i was talking about tho, i was trying to understand what they were trying to do not what they could have done instead
it seems like they did that to have it be left/right functional without needing to flip it, but the issue is that the sticks are useless if you plan to use touch controls regardless
@@snitchbug yeah, as someone left handed I can't tell you how many Nintendo games on the 3ds were so stylus AND joystick heavy (at the same time) that I had to return it to the store because I couldn't play it. I don't buy Nintendo games anymore unless I can try to play test it for at least 15 minutes or so to see if it's playable or if I can make it playable.
I am!!!
There IS another reason for some of the mirrored functions that you haven't talked about: left handed people using the touch controls... however that can be accounted for by having a left-handed option for the controls/UI
yeah left handed people exist. source: i'm one of them
@@vinegar...unreliable source, I need research papers.
The thing is that even then it still isn’t that useful since, at least in the my case and the other left-handed people I know, we just end up using the left side functions anyways even if the right side does the exact same thing cause we’re used to games not accommodating for it unless they explicitly state that there’s a left-handed option somewhere. So even then having the mirrored functions is still kinda silly when they could be used for better things.
(I do realize how old this comment is and that my reply doesn’t matter but I wanted to share my thoughts, also this isn’t meant to be rude sorry if it comes off that way 😅😅)
I appreciate the perspective and don't think it's rude. @@IcySpicy_Yeet
@@IcySpicy_Yeetwell, I think it’s meant to be played one hand on the switch one hand with a stylus, source: flip note studio, an animation suite for the dsi has basically the same controll scheme
Ceave: no one ever uses the right shoulder buttons because of the stylus
Left Handed People: *am I a joke to you?*
I stand by the side of the argument that Nintendo should add a left-handed toggle in the user interface, which has a direct and easy benefit (both for the lefty and righty creators) that the second analog stick can be used to speed up the task of scrolling the camera view in the level editor.
Also, you just copied a top comment.
@@DimitriPilot I literally didn’t read any of the comments so this is purely coincidental
*I'm left handed*
aight then, no one ever uses the left shoulder buttons because of the stylus
I feel like part of the problem in the SMM2 UI might be that it was designed like a game menu rather than the UI of a creative tool. While Mario Maker is a game, it is also a tool, and the tool part should be treated as such. And why not have different menus for the touchscreen and controller, with the possibility to modify and mix them to your own taste?
It's designed to be a game yet the multiplayer is so horrible and laggy, no servers so you are connecting to other people directly.
Are you retro hippie
I miss being able to download other player's levels and checking them out in the editor to see their set ups and contraptions.
You can kinda do that by viewing the failure points
@@xboydubose7254 you can only I view failure points on your own levels
@@DavidTurner2 oh
As a programmer who loves complex systems and troll levels and such, Nintendo's efforts to dumb things down makes me lose my appetite for their games. I wanted them to make contraptions easier to build, not harder. Ideally, even give it a scripting language. But no, they did the opposite.
As a UI designer, I thought MM1 was fantastic and innovative, while MM2 makes me want to cry. Instead of optimizing a specialized UI for each controller type they wanted to support, they did a lowest-common-denominator generic approach, the worst traits of each combined into one, but worse because it also has a bunch of designs which are total nonsense.
As a free software geek, MM2's lack of collaboration tools (level download/view/edit and the level browser site) feels like an insult to my entire profession. For a healthy community, people need to be able to collaborate... but Nintendo took a pretty hard stance against the tools needed for learning and sharing.
As an egalitarian, Nintendo's decision to lock 99% of the game behind a paid subscription feels rather greedy and classist. MM1 was $60 for about 5.5 years worth of gameplay. MM2 is about $170 ($60 for the game, plus $20/year per person). If they don't want to pay for server infrastructure, or if they just want a healthy, loyal, and long-lived community, they should open-source the server code and let people run their own maker services.
And as a long-time platforming junkie, MM2's laggy, icy, floaty physics engine and control scheme make it feel like the entire game is made of only ice levels and water levels, with a heavy reliance on nearly-frame-perfect inputs with unintuitive timing windows. Even top players still have trouble with incredibly basic things, like bouncing off of note blocks. It's necessary to commit to actions really early, almost like there's online lag even in local mode. Normally I love speedrunning difficult games, but MM2's controls make me feel like I'm total garbage because even easy things are difficult.
Overall, it seems like Nintendo has been trying very hard to give their fans a huge middle finger. They don't seem to care about what's good for their fans... Nintendo only seems to care about profit and control.
@@ToyKeeper What do you think of Levelhead?
One solution they could start with is making UI for both the joystick and touchscreen then giving the player the option to choose which one.
this might be controversial but I don't really mind the UI when creating levels and I kind of like switching back and forth between touch and joy stick.
I would be saying that if the joycons actually worked properly
Weirdly enough, I get the feeling that the 3D World style was designed to deliberately NOT have funny contraptions and stuff. That's what they WANTED. They wanted that style to be more limited and simple so more traditional type courses would've been made instead.
Nintended
You call them funny contraptions to minimise them, but they're actually the crux of the game. Simple minds.
Oddly enough, it's possibly the most broken style...
Vindication! CarlSagan42 uploads a video called 3d world jank the next day after this comment! Lol
@@YounesLayachi I know that. That’s what makes the game great. NINTENDO just didn’t want this for some reason.
There's really no sense in deliberately designing a style to be more limited from the rest when nothing actually stops you from building a traditional level with more broken toolsets...plus gamers being gamers anything and everything will somehow be abused regardless.
It's definitely a moment of Nintendo telling us Nintendon't, but it's also yet another thing on the long list of "why?!?" in this game's design...
This video should be called: "Ceave roasts lefties for 21 minutes straight"
Why? I saw at minimum that the left has minor parts.
@@the_player_2 Because he doesn't understand that a bunch of controls are designed to be used for both right and left handed people
And now claims its a whole seperate thing which doesn't even make sense
And the worst part is most people won't even think about it (like him probably) because they're likely right handed
@@nettalie4435 They could just add in a "Mirror UI" setting, it's not that hard.
@@nettalie4435 Or just, idk, add in the game "Left hand mode" or as said above, a Mirror UI setting. Other games do it, Non Nintendo games that is. Nintendo for some reason thinks we use both hands at all times. Games have settings inside the game to compensate for what hand you use. Yet Nintendo does the laziest way possible, designs both to be the same and calls it a day with no options.
@@nettalie4435 I’m pretty sure Ceave just didn’t think of that, and I don’t think Nintendo thought of it either.
The lack of the bookmark site is my biggest issue. I loved being able to make a list of levels I wanted to play online and just be able to play them. Not using the Switch app with it was stupid.
You can actually place straight up spiny shells in 3dw
they just go unused for some reason (ah nintendo)
You can get them in using a 2d -> 3dw import glitch with spiny shells
they even save.
Ceave: "we simply dont have our right hand on the controller while building a stage because we are holding the stylus with it"
Left handed people: am I a joke to you?
that is indeed, the reason why they are the same on each side. so that left and right handed people have the same inputs with touchscreen
Came to the comment section to comment this and, as a Leftie, I feel satisfied not to have to comment it. Take my Thumbs up to the top, Mr.
And this is basically the reason for 99% of the "strange decisions" in reality. Tying a lot to the stylus + gamepad meant both sides had to do the same things, to accommodate both left and right handed people. There's really no conspiracy theories required.
But it doesn't matter if it's the left or the right hand the point is you're only using half of the controller so half of the buttons can't really be mapped to. That's why they just copy the other side.
wouldn't it be more convenient to just put an option to invert controls between sides for left handed ppl? and i mean everything, so that are ingame ui and joycons (obviously separate option for each)
or going further, remapping all controls for each button like in most normal games
A comment I saw somewhere sums nintendo up: "90% great, 10% weird design choices that almost ruin the experience"
My son started making MM1 levels when he was 4. He couldn't read, but he figured out how to build levels because the interface was so user friendly. When we finally got a Switch for Christmas 2020 when he was almost 6 he was incredibly excited because of MM2. MM1 was so intuitive that he figured it out in a few minutes. He got so frustrated with MM2 that he started to cry, went back to MM1 and didn't play MM2 for a month. He prefers it now because he has so many more options and has figured out the UI but it was incredilby sad to see him go from exicted to crying in frustration because the UI in MM2 is so less intuitive than in MM1. I think MM2 is a better game in almost every way, but give me that MM1 interface any day.
I totally forgot that SMM2 had a co-op building mode. That thing would be awesome if it had online capabilities.
I never knew they removed shake to change, that was the coolest thing about MM1
Ikr? I loved that
Really?
definitely not the coolest thing but yeah it was cool
it was an interesting gimmick for 2 mins and then it was a pain
Yes it was
As someone who only picked up Mario maker 2 recently, the menus have really confused me. If you don’t have everything memorized it’s painfully slow and awkward.
Just got a switch last friday, it's really easy for me to pick any item I want to use because of the menu names that tell me exactly where I can find any item
Really? I barely got a switch with smm2 in December and I think it was fairly easy to navigate.
It's confusing at first but you'll get use it if you use it enough, at least that was the case for me.
Its confusing for like 5 minutes, and then you figure it out. I thinkvyouvjust need to make more levels and it will make more sense.
It once took me a whole minute or two to find the bridge obstacle.
I was never able to figure out why I couldn't get into 2 like I could 1. I loved all the features so much more, but I just didn't have the urge to play as much. You have explained my feelings to me. Thank you.
i think the thing i hate the most is that they got rid of the ability to place multiple things in the same place. it made contraptions much more easy, compressed and surprising, you were able to make pipes throw multiple stuff at once, you were able to have a goomba and a coin in the same place. getting rid of that feature makes the space in the grid massively more restricted.
edit: i made this comment before finishing the video, he kinda covered it, so yeah.
20:44
"I hope you enjoyed this little video. If you did, don't forget to leave me your thumb."
*your thumb, hand it over*
yubi yubi
@@lor84881 *wh- where is your thumb? I need it*
@@lor84881 My left one or my right one?
@@JeramieM Both. Both is good.
As someone who is left handed, I appreciate having the ability to access functions on the right side of the controller while using a touchscreen with my left hand.
But if you are using the joycons:
Wouldn't it be preferable to get asked "Are you left-handed?" once (to swap the shoulder buttons) and then having four instead of two functions mapped to the shoulders?
@@blackbot7113 such as the Wii did in 2006 :P
That's what I thought, even though I'm right-handed.. it would be great to assign the buttons on your own, though.. but nowadays it's more important to give the same accessible features for everyone which is great. Though - customisation is the core of this game..they just missed it on the controls...
yeah, they could fix this in a heartbeat by having a left handed mode that flips everything
i'm left-handed, all they needed to do was make a left-handed mode.
8:40: I’m not sure if Nintendo realized this when designing the fact that the right joy stick does the same as the left but I find it really useful the right joystick doing the same as the left since Since I’m left handed so My left had is normally not on the controller since I’m using the touch screen with it so When I want to move around to look at different areas when I’m building a course I use the right joystick since my right hand Is already on the Right controller a similar situation exists with the right shoulder buttons not doing different things Overall There’s a second reason to have every option be assessable with one controller because due to the fact that some people are left handed so they would only really have access to the right controller buttons well right handed people can only really use the left controller so to have everyone be able to easily use every feature each controller has to be able to do every action so the 2 players mode isn’t the only reason both controller have to have there buttons mapped so every function is usable also with the you have to problem that you have to be holding both controller to navigate the selection menu to change sections that doesn’t actually exist you can use the touch screen by selection the areas where it says L or R to change wheels though also if there are other fractures that you really need your hand on both controllers Atleast with the way I play I just realized I normally already have my hands on both I just use my thumb for the touch screen and use the hand that’s closer Not sure if that’s a thing anyone else does though
yeah
They could have implemented a southpaw version in the options or something. most games have this feature
@@paulsingleterry1604 Thank you! Most people don't realize this!!
A web based editor would be fantastic, if I could make levels on my computer with mouse and keyboard shortcuts, and better mapping tools. Then import it to the switch and clear check it like normal.
That would be usefull
As someone who mostly plays with the Switch docked, I find myself using a claw grip to speed up having to place down blocks.
Joycons/Pro Controllers just can’t match the speed of a stylus.
I couldn't understand, I mostly play handheld and unless I'm playing with friends I almost never use docked version
Especially with a joy con with drift
It's a lot better to use a stylus because you can move the cursor faster and with more precision. It's faster to place blocks on opposite ends of the screen with a stylus than a controller. Plus you can navigate the menus on the stage map faster.
They can match the speed, if you use both joysticks on a pro controller, the cursor will move at double speed, and by holding Y, it will move even faster.
But i get what you mean.
@@maratby4364 yeah by pushing both sticks in the same direction and holding Y you can move through your course really fast. This is only useful if you are only using a controller because you can skip having to select the level length editor and sliding the bar around.
Never forget the formerly global-ground icicles 😭
GAGAGAGAGAGA!!! I want to cut my toe nails... NEVER! I am the feet CZcamsr. Thanks for being a fan, dear ji
Ikr
@@AxxLAfriku you
Never forget
@@AxxLAfriku you bastard again
While I agree with almost all your points (great video by the way), I wanted to bring up something:
Left people exist, I am one, and use my left hand for my stylus/finger. Thats probably why both shoulder buttons aren't being mapped to different buttons
I understand most people are right handed but nintendo has to make the button mapping work for all dominant hands
Yeah they should've put a left handed mode in the settings
they could add left handed mode and then boom now your other joystick has a use now, this benefits everyone
What I miss the most about the first game is all the available items being displayed on one screen and the possibility to rearrange the item menu how we want.
16:18 I think it's actually because they might have wanted 3D World to be more platforming-based and open and just more like regular Mario levels, instead of a bunch of small rooms with big contraptions that alter the gameplay in hundreds of ways.
I think that's why they removed and added what they removed/added between 3D World and the other styles. 3D World's items have much less technical uses, but instead are pretty specific in their uses and functions to being a unique obstacle that Mario (or the others) has to face using only a few amount of methods.
I mean they removed the tracks, the dotted-line block (which did get added later but still), the shells, the note blocks, the various semi-solid platforms, the night mode, etc. but they added things like the Dash Pad, the Charvaargh, the Peepa, the Tree, and more that have more specific uses.
I think it's stupid because in smm a big appeal is to make non platforming Mario levels
I wouldn't say they removed night mode, they simply didn't add it in like the Stone Blocks and Toads.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 No the night mode still mostly works except for the background
platforming = bound to have a lot of fun kaizo stages, but it just made creating fun kaizo 3DW stages near impossible without some of the features in other game styles.
One thing though:
The nintendo 3ds version was a huge scam and I'm still salty they had the balls to make it that way.
Wasnt It Just Suppose To Be A Port?
I KNOW RIGHT! I was so disappointed when I got it!
I actually loved the 3ds version just because of the single player content with how you unlocked the parts as it just felt way better than the Wii U
@@QuinPlaysGames I myself think it's still a scam
The hype about smm was building levels and playing levels made from Users.
Not giving us any multiplayer function at all apart from "recommend levels" just didn't do the job for me :'(
Yeah, made me so disappointed when I realised the disadvantages of it :(
8:40 Love ya Ceave, but I think you forgot that left-handed people exist. I'm not commenting on the UI itself, but I believe the reason why the controls are mirrored on both sides of the console is so that no matter what hand you use to draw with, you can still do all of the functions regardless. Sure, mirroring the controls would be pointless in docked mode, as apposed un-docked, but I think that they wanted consistency across all forms of creations-- Not that that's a good thing, clearly. If they had some way to have specific controls/layouts depending on your chosen method, then that would be ideal. Having a choice wouldn't be too difficult, right?
Simple, an option to mirror everything
@@robuxyyyyyyyyyy4708 I know that Nintendo has a fetish for simplicity and all, but even a few easy to select options would make it all so much better. The "one size fits all" approach isn't always a bad thing, but it leaves things half-baked for no real reason. It's not like your teacher is limiting you to one control scheme only, c'mon Nintendo.
This is a problem with consoles not just this game itself. They make left handed mice why not left handed controllers as well? Makes no sense to me.
@Logan Herrera You can't expect Nintendo to do something in a huge release that they used to do in games that were basically tech demos. That would require Miyamoto not to be a raving lunatic.
@@lethauntic teachers love limiting students
As a casual player who doesn't even dream of exploring the kaizo aspects of Super Mario Maker yet highly enjoys coming up with more "regular" levels and dislikes broad social media, what killed Super Mario Maker and prevented me from getting deep into Super Mario Maker 2 is the lack of Miiverse and SMM Bookmark.
The game being connected to the "outside world" is what kept me coming back to Super Mario Maker. When someone had to say something about one of my levels I'd always go check it out. Then even when that was out I tracked how my levels did in SMM Bookmark. Super Mario Maker 2, on the other hand, once I put the cartridge away and got engrossed into something else, it just stayed away.
As somebody who prefers the first Splatoon over the second, I'm also with you on this opinion. The OG Mario Maker made course construction FEEL like a game. This time it... well, it feels like a streamlined course creator.
why are you like this? Did your dad beat you?
@@pkfiremain710 What???????
his whole point was that its not streamlined ?????
@@pkfiremain710 oh HELL nah bro what da phuc
exactly mario maker 1 was fun, not this mario maker 2
You never mentioned it but having both shoulder buttons do the same thing means left handed people can still use the stylus how they want to.
or add a left handed mode
@@thisisthecat9518 Exactly, all these left handed comments are missing the point.
There's a different option to accommodate for [X] people because they're not the main target audience, when in doubt make it an option.
@@rewrose2838 In Mario Maker 1, duplicating the functionality of the shoulder buttons/triggers was definitely the right call. Right handed people *cannot* use the right trigger, so adding extra functionality to it would be a bad idea.
@@rewrose2838 The default should be a majority but there will usually always be a option for the minority
19:33
This video does a great job expressing all my problems with SMM2. I actually stopped playing before making a single level because the UI was so bad, whereas in SMM I was able to fill 8 worlds with decently lengthed levels.
Yes, the UI sucks, but it's not *that* bad
Bruh 💀
"my little thoughtlings"
"thinky-think"
"maybely-why"
"in my dumble opinion"
I haven't played the game, but controls could've been also about being accessible to left handed people, and people with only one functional hand... but these could've been optional toggles instead.
This is what I was thinking the entire time. I remember in The World Ends With You, you could control your partner with either the D-pad or the 4 face buttons, letting you hold the stylus in either your left or right hand. Hearing that all the controls are mirrored just made me think that they were thinking about people holding their Switch in their right hand and holding the stylus in their left.
I was thinking this too
Ceave: we actually have shellectricity in the 3D world style! **proceeds to explain Bob-omb contraption**
Spike ball: am I a joke to you
They came half a year after the launch as dlc.
@@LuigisLegend what dlc?
@@thegodotcat im think it was the same dlc that introduced pockeys and spikes
Here is a link to a vidio to the updatd: czcams.com/video/e0II9zErqgE/video.html
@@LuigisLegend
it’s not dlc it was just a free update
haha, the timestop glitch in SMM2! Where everything is static and cannot move, even in midair, including Mario. The only thing that gets to move during that glitch is conveyors, and nothing has a hit or hurtbox, even lava. Through that glitch, one can make a setup that drops Mario in lava, but render the game softlocked instead of killing Mario, which I assume all SMM2 players and Makers are aware of.
I believe they designed the controls (joystick and shoulder buttons) in order to allow left handed players to use the stylus on their left hand and still control the shoulder buttons and joystick with their right hand.
I love how you decorate your room more and more with each video
As an amateur game designer, I really appreciate videos like this. I'm pretty guilty of just following my first impulses, and not considering whether or not there are more optimal design options. So, it's nice to see someone put so much thought into it.
As for my experiences with MM 1 & 2, I was never a big fan of shaking items to change their state, but holding on them for a moment is just as tedious. A simple double-tap would have been better for me. Also, I can't navigate the radial menus very well. I do feel like they had to change it some to account for the extra items, but I would have preferred just having categorized lists and a search feature.
And I wholeheartedly agree that the menus around the edges of the screen get in the way far too often.
Don't forget, they also removed pipe stacking. There were so many fun things you could do with pipe stacking in smm1
I have no idea why they removed that
Nintendo CZcamsr: Makes a video
Gerudo Valley Theme: It's showtime
It’s scary how much of these arguments can be answered by remembering left handed people exist. In a game where you use a stylus for precision building, of course you’d want to use your dominant hand and have the right shoulder buttons be accessible.
There should have been an option to reverse the buttons/layouts if you are left handed though
Its scary how to counter your argument Nintendo could have just added in what 99% of other non-Nintendo games have, a Mirror UI or Left Handed option. Viola' you can now use the other controller and buttons for anything
As someone else in the comments has said, "Though that does make me wonder why they didn't just add a lefty control scheme option."
There are so many non-symmetrical options though, and the issues would far better serve ALL parties if a mirror controls option was instead included.
@@blinkingberry9591most 3ds games I have tried playing with are stylus heavy do not have that kind of option. It's sad. I've returned many a game after finding I can't physically play it because I need to use the stylus while steering/controlling with my left joy stick.
Excellent video Ceave! But you forgot something: you CAN use touch controls in the radial menu! By touching the icons at the top, you instantly jump to that section, then you can swipe to move through that section MUCH faster than with buttons. You also don’t need to use the control stick to select an item, you can just tap on it. I personally have never found touch controls to be any harder now than in MM1, other than multiselect and clone being bound to the same button.
He also forgot to think about lefthanded people for the UI.
He kind of forgot about a bunch of aspects that make sense.
But hey I guess looking for a conspiracy theory when there really is none that makes sense is easier.
@@nettalie4435 Or just add in a mirror UI option, This left handed argument is getting annoying. It makes no sense to think its designed like this "For left handed" people, when Mirror UI options exist in other games. Many just call it Left handed option. Designing controllers to be useless means Nintendo essentially hates Left handed people
The point isn’t that you can’t use touch screen controls with radial menus, it’s simply that they are more effective for stick controls than touch controls. Even when being able to switch tabs by clicking on the different titles you still often have to navigate a couple radial menus to get the part you need, compared to Mario Maker 1’s much quicker touch design.
TL;DR: Touch controls are way less efficient in MM2 than the original.
@@jasbitmaster it’s the most efficient way they could’ve done it 🤷 i’m sorry but i’ve never once spent more than 2 seconds in the items menu, and i can’t say the same about mario maker 1. my point was that ceave exaggerated how bad the radial menus are by a LOT.
You didn't really talk about it much, but an eyedrop tool that can select an item already in the level is the one thing I never knew I needed
I like the editing options being mirrored because I'm left handed, but they could easily just have implemented a handedness setting and used more functions on buttons too.
3:02
Left-handed people DO exist, Ceave
But the button layout also works for left-handed people since L=R and ZL=ZR
Kinda rude there no mention of left handed people what whatever
And they also make up only about 10% of the population. Not saying they don't exist, nor am I saying we should discard them, but if it wasn't symetrical to make more features, some people would be uncomfortable using the buttons on the side you are using your stylus. On one hand, you annoy 10% of the population, on the other, 90%.
Or you know... do it like they did and annoy 100% in the sequel
@@SeeTv. That's the point. Since L = R and ZL = ZR, it works for left handed people. Ceave wants it so that none are equal.
They could just add a left-handed mode.
A lot of Nintendo's so called "weird decisions" like doubling up on functions so that they can be accessed on one joycon can be explained in four words:
Left Handed People Exist.
well that shouldnt be the intention though, as he clearly describes later that the main problem is to always swap between pen and controller which is just stupid.
If you could access 99% in a good way with a pen, than the doubling up would be okey. but you cant, its not a list anymore, you wanna use controllers and why cut short on controller options if you can just add an option to mirror mappings for left handed people.
I had that thought man he isnt taking left handed people into account for about 3 minutes of the video than I realized thats not the problem here you could make all sort of things if you care for left handed people.
yea just making a "left handed" and "right handed" control scheme would solve all those problems and free up controller space
The solution to that is multiple control schemes, not butchering the menuing and making it an unbelievable hassle to do anything.
Left handed people may have been the reason, but their solution that they did was bad.
Guys stop arguing over this because the controls are literally fine. Can you play the game? Yes. So the controls work.
I do be one of those people tho
Ceave I've always loved how wholesome your channel is. Not to mention all the interesting stuff around Mario maker. Love it.
Hi Ceave! I just wanted to say a couple things:
- I really enjoy your channel. At first I just enjoyed you creative and analytical stuff about SMM and now I stay because you take something I (and a lot more of people I guess) feel but can't properly explain and you word it perfectly plus almost all time you give reasonable explanisons about how all this happened to be. And also, the funny ways you find to do it. It's all incredible.
- The main reason I'm writing this is just to comment what you said about why they prioritize the two player mode and other couple things. When you said you didn't know it came to my mind a discussion I had about matketing and why I didn't understand ads - people like me look for products, but almost all companies nowadays are selling feelings. Just look at car ads - most of the time there's just people enjoying driving and then a quick mention to the specs. And Nintendo sold the switch as "portable fun with friends". And they sold SMM2 as two things - multiplayer fun and new items like slopes, ON OFF switches, slopes, 3DW stuff, slopes and few more. Or at least it is what I remember. And that's it, they wanted to sell multiplayer fun and more items and that's where they started messing up the UI and forgetting about some things you already commented in some videos like thoose many interactions between objects. Or at least this is what I believe that happened.
Something I’ll miss that MM1 levels had that MM2 doesn’t have are the amiibo costumes
I did like them as well, but it only gave us an over abundance of levels based on Mario 1 and “Showcase levels”, which are probably lazier than MM2’s “refreshing levels”. Heck MY biggest nitpick in that we couldn’t use them in 3 or World. But with the removal of the costumes and the addition of so much more content to toy around in, I as the maker can create levels far more complex than the original, and I as the player get to experience more level variety; which I’d say is more important to get right in a game like this.
they should have definitely brought them back. It would have been cool to play someone's Mega Man themed world or a Metroid themed world with them. MM2 is still better overall but there was no good reason to remove those costumes.
could've been a rights thing more than a decision made on the fly. they had a LOT of costumes
@@peliukun8164 could have kept the Nintendo ones
they have mario an link thats probly enuff nintendo for em
Alternate title: Ceave forgets about left-handed people for 20 minutes. :P
Though that does make me wonder why they didn't just add a lefty control scheme option.
Or just a whole custom controls/menu option in the settings. I really hate scrolling through all the menus, having everything on the table was so much better imo
well i thought about that, but he it doesnt matter you know.
the main problem isnt that its just mirrored, it is that its mirrored because they couldnt decide if you should play it with touchpen or with controller.
obviously its good to have mirrored controlls (or just a left control scheme) for lefthanders. but it shouldnt matter if the main way to play is with controller anyway it only matters when the main way is to play it with a touchpen.
You have to play Nintendo's way. Left-handed what?
Things I miss (before watching the video)
- Title screen easter egg
- Mario paint flies easter egg
- Shaking stuff
- Placing blocks in the starting place
My favorite contradiction, "Simply complicated."
Ah yes. I forgot that it's possible to be simple and complicated. 🧐
Surprisingly simply complicated, of course. :)
I think the "simply" part is referring to the fact that it is obvious to deduce that that is complicated, like it's not a mystery to if it's complicated or not.
Unsurprisingly surprisingly complicatedly simply surprising.
I felt the exact same way. The gamepad and general UI felt far smoother, and easier to access. Also, the soft plastic on the stylus for the Wii U was far nicer than the rubber-like finish on the end of the MM2 stylus.
That and the idea was far more fresh in 2015 compared to 2019.
Both games are good, but given how much the 2nd game adds, it makes it the better game overall (IMO).
Personally I never had a problem with 2’s UI, I agree using a touch screen is better, but that’s probably my biggest complaint since a joystick isn’t as good as a touch screen for making 2D levels (at least in the way it was done in SMM).
Placing items is easy in both 1 and 2.
I don’t have a problem with the buttons in 2 (outside of using the joystick for moving).
Though I don’t know what the right joystick would have been used for. I don’t think it’s bad that it’s used for movement, unless there’s something it could be used better for (though IDK what).
I imagine you can’t shake items cause many have more than one state, plus it’s easy to hold.
Being able to hide the sides could have been neat, but I don’t think not having that option ruins it.
I agree we should be able to place shells on their own in the 3D world style.
Not seeing all the items at once isn’t as convenient, but I don’t mind a radial menu.
I don’t think small changes makes the game more complicated in general gameplay, but it’s true that it can affect contraptions, though many of them are still possible to make in other ways.
Even with all that, I still think the additions to the game makes it overall better.
I also think it’s still generally easy to make standard levels.
Agreed
Yes
Hooray
the Wii U felt better when making levels handheld but if you buy a stylus, it's not terrible on the Switch. I just hated it trying to do it with a normal controller and docked.
To me, the radial menu actually makes the buttons easier to press on a touch screen.
I know why they removed the ability to place items in the start area, but I loved being able to instantly give the player a power up to start with. The real question is though, since you can hold on the character to give them power ups, why isn't your selection the default state when someone plays your level?
I miss you man. Please come back. Your videos are so good and when I watch you video, it gets me into wanting to play Mario maker, super Mario, and more
I just think the novelty is gone... the appeal for the first super mario maker was just how hype it was to be able to make our _very own_ mario stages! the new features are great, but I didn't have any motivation to create levels in mario maker 2 because the novelty died off years before the sequel even came out. mario maker 2 just feels like it's trying to start a new spin-off series, when a concept with this much novelty really only works as a standalone title. the awful UI and general lack of charm in comparison to the original were the final nails in the coffin for me.
I'm still addicted to online VS though please help me
I don't think this is the case, I played the original Mario maker relatively recently and really enjoyed it.
The fact that you can’t edit the courses that you downloaded anymore (e.g. for practicing certain sections) was the main reason I’m not a fan of the sequel
My understanding was that this was because of people stealing levels. YMMV on whether that was enough of a problem to warrant removing that feature. It sucks that we lost a cool feature because some jerkwads were abusing it.
@@Greywander87 Well they could have made it so they can't upload downloaded levels.
I think instead of removing the feature altogether, they should've restricted the editor for downloaded levels: Only inspecting and only placing Mario (no editing, no copying, etc)
@@BusterBrown1217 It already was like that if I'm not misremembering. It just made it easier to copy levels when you can look at a level in the editor.
@@BusterBrown1217 Or they could have attached a tag to downloaded levels that said who made it in the first place.
Hey Ceave! Loved the video as always, but I do have to wonder. Are you ever going to go back to the content you used to make like “what is the lowest score you can get while beating super Luigi U”? That’s one of my favorite series, and so I’m wondering if you will be going back to that anytime soon, or if you are just chilling with this new style of video.
This is a master class in UX design and critique. Yes its Mario Maker specific, but the concepts translate very well outside of gaming.
What I enjoyed more about the original was the online. You didn’t have to pay for it.
Lmao
To be fair, that’s just because of the Switch. Can’t really blame the game for that
Imagine being 6 and not being able to afford below 2$/€ a month
This
@@zeemilios9327 but also affording $300-$400 for the console and mm2 lol
11:27
Left handed people:
Am I a joke to you?
7:50 Jesus... no wonder I thought I was wasting so much time in building mode.
Your content was great a couple of years ago, but now it’s even better!
Because it had some features that were "bugs" and Nintendo removed them...
Any fun you experienced was a bug, we apologise for the convenience.
Indeed, if every item were visible at the same time in the menu, it might lead to more creativity than otherwise (since out of sight out of mind), and that might lead to people doing things that *they didn't specifically intend*, which is a heresy to them.
By splitting up the items into multiple menus, it means that you might not be able to think of all the items instantly, which means that you're less likely to get creative with mixing/matching, which means less glitches.
Nintendo's modus operandi is "Stop having fun wrong, or else!", and they enforce this with an iron fist.
You could argue about *why* they're like this, but its notable that emergent game design is chaotic and can lead to anything, where as having an iron fisted glitch policy ensures that they're never in a state where they don't have absolute power over the gameplay.
@Thibault PECCOUD If Nintendo could figure out the impossible task of how to remove shellectricty without altering the way shells traditionally behave, I'm 100% certain they would do it
*cough* weird mushroom *cough*
The original just feels more nostalgic and natural.
Yeah! I feel the exact same way!
Simpleness is the most important part of a level creator
They removed the Mystery Mushroom in Super Mario Maker 2!
@@harrybest2041 the only reason (that I can come up with) is for Online Multiplayer purposes. But even that doesn't make sense if we can get skinalts liket the Link powerup!
This guy for real has a framed picture of Princess Ruto on his wall.
Can ya blame him?
Another thing I didn't like about Mario Maker 2 compared to the original was the fact that you can't stack enemies over items anymore.
I used to mostly make music stages in the first game, and I often found myself having to put an item on top of an enemy so that two instruments could play the same note at the same time. In the sequel, they for some reason decided that we can't do that anymore.
As much as I hate to say it, it's honestly made it harder for me to want to make anything in Mario Maker 2.
The first half of this video sounds like an April Fools against left handed people
7:16 why DO you switch to using the shoulder buttons here?? you can still use touch controls in this menu: just tap the blue terrain tab and select the noteblock. i would argue having tabs like this is easier than having to search for the noteblock in a random list of 60 items.
In Mario Maker 1 the list of parts was not "random". You could customize their order to your liking.
@@zerarch77 yes I know, but I'd often find myself still searching for items I want to use. Also I think the pinning feature in Mario Maker 2 is slightly better
I kinda agree. He made it seem MUCH more tedious than it actually is.
I love how Ceave just forgot that left handed people exist.
What bugged me about it was that they removed the amiibo costumes, and a few other silly things like the Weird Mushroom, The Gnat Attack minigame, and the weird costumes enemies get when using the Big Mushroom
2:45 That is true of people who are right handed, but the opposite is true for left handed people.
11:27 Also no, for the same reason. I agree that it is still the most accessable area though.
It’s interesting. This video is almost entirely from the level creator point of view. As someone who just plays levels, SMM2 is better in almost every way.
I think part of the reason why the ZR and ZL (and R and L on SMM1) have the same function, is because when editing with the touch screen some people are right handed and some are left handed. Making the buttons be the same function across both sides is meant for accessibility, and the same thing goes with the right stick mimicking the left stick.
Why not add more abilities to their buttons/joysticks, then add a lefty mode in the options
Screen: Not Touch, Not Joy
CZcams Chapters: Not Joy, Not Touch
Me: (does) Not Compute, Not Happy
3:04
Left handed people:
Or the buttons are repeated on both sides so that it isn’t inaccessible for left handed people
I think he generally didn't think of that lol
Then they could just make a left/right handed choice option in the menu. Don't see the problem here.
@@joostinatortje true
Your videos really bring me joy, I love the way you talk, it's so... friendly ! Thank you and keep going :D
mario maker 3 idea: theres a 'refreshing' tag but any course that has it just says it got corrupted but in reality nintendo deleted it
All of these things are literally why I just stopped playing MM2 relatively quickly.
I like to watch people play MM2, but the building aspect just felt too frustrating to deal with.
It's a far more minor point, but I still feel like the costumes were also an unfortunate loss. The odds weren't great anyway, but I would've been intrigued if they carried over all of them, including the bizarre guest additions like Chitoge and Shaun, and more so if it meant complete backwards compatibility with the first game's course library. Alas. For that matter, they just axed Amiibo support altogether for SMM2, which feels like a bit of a missed opportunity considering that we could've had miniature Ridley or an 8-bit style Cloud.
I have been putting off watching this video for a long time. I still haven't quite processed my own heartbreak over Super Mario Maker 2. I knew you would have a great analysis that would only make me more sad about what could have been. Thanks for your amazing work here and in all your other videos.
Hoo-acutal-ray for you
Honestly I would love if SMM had keyboard & mouse controls, like a desktop app. Adding parts would be as simple as left clicking, editing the state of an item would be a right-click to show the menu. Numbers 1-9 would correspond to selecting the most recent items in the top menu bar. Holding space and dragging your mouse like photoshop would move the whole canvas. There would be common shortcuts like CTRL+Z and Shift+CTRL+Z to undo/redo. There could even be a search bar to search for the exact part you need. Once done, you could be able to take your hands off the keyboard and mouse and pick up the controller to play.
I have to agree the first game was amazingly interesting and the second just isn’t as fun to create levels with
20:47 "Maybe you feel especially like interacting with a user interface and want to hit the subscribe button as well."
I see what you did there!
4:47 yeah I was so confused when your first thoughts on it from the trailer were "hmm maybe they'll do motion pointer controls" when it looks like it's designed perfectly for a joystick lol
100% agree. i spent 8000H in the mm1 editor and i loved it. so simple and effective. some things boils down to the wii u gamepad being better than the switch for building though. just the fact that we could use any plastic pen on the wii u screen is a big plus. it becomes much more exact with a smaller tip and more comfy pen, and its alot cheaper and easier to buy that than the stupid clumsy "precision rubber circle tipped capactive style stylus" that we have to use on the switch. and dont get me started on the fact that we cant stream in handheld mode on the switch... i loved to stream mm1. it was such an interactive game, being in the builder with an easy to use editor on handheld, and at the same time managing a stream on a computer screen. it was a flawless combo, making it easy both to build, testplay and handle the stream. enter the switch and mm2... if you wanna stream that, you are forced to use the stupid joysticks to build. i just wont do that. i chose to stop streaming, which is very sad. but since everyone jumped ship from mm1 to mm2, all i could do was to follow the community, since being on twitch in the mm channels is 100% integrated with the games. even though mm2 has so many good new features, i would 10000000% prefer if it was never made. that way we could still enjoy mm1 with what ever was left of that community. /kuru
@Walther Penne Its the only game i played for 4-5 years :D