Difference between Judo and Kosen Judo - From the source interview
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- čas přidán 12. 10. 2018
- From our interview with the senior teacher at the Nagoya University Judo Club on Kosen Judo, this video covers the differences between Judo and Kosen Judo, including:
- different rules, leading to a focus on newaza (ground techniques)
- the reason for pulling guard (hikkikomi) and focusing on newaza
- team competition focus
- the most common ground position
- common methods of victory
The interview took place on 16 June 2018 at Nagoya University (Gym No.4), Nagoya City, Japan. Thanks to Yuji Nimura, MD. and the Nagoya University Judo Club (Meidai Judo).
Yuji Nimura, MD.
- Master, Nagoya University Judo Club
- Special Member of the Medical Committee, All Japan Judo Federation
- Medical Commission Member, International Judo Federation. - Sport
A 75 year-old with cauliflower ear. Respect.
What does his age have to do with cauliflower ear?!
@@Gieszkanne He's still going...that's what it has to do with it.
@@NathanAGoss It has nothing to do with his age, he also could get in his youth.
@@Gieszkanne LOL what a strange and ironic comment - strange because you assume I don't know that (by implication, he got it when he was younger), and ironic because my original comment was three months ago, yet here you are.
Are you one of those people that complains about everything?
@O K perhaps the interpretation you've decided on in your head doesn'take any sense, but I'm not here to teach you how to consider all possible interpretations.
Have fun responding to year- old comments lol
This is what I believe about jujutsu 🙏 It was a complete martial art with different
styles of fighting methods
1 kendo as sword fighting
2 karate as hand to hand
3 aikido as hand vs sword
4 judo as throw vs sword
5 jujitsu or Kosen vs empty hand on ground level I believe this was the real purpose of the martial arts in the past .
2
Love judo, love kosen judo and love bjj. No matter what people say its all Ju jitsu which originated from japan and made better by modern Japanese and brazil.
Except we all agree that traditional jiu jitsu in kimonos with ponytails is bullshit. Long live the real martial arts of the samurai
Liam Parker the real martial arts of the samurai were jujutsu for hand to hand combat
BJJ is the newaza part of Judo.
Sorry but 1 thing is love Judo, another is be blind. BJJ is not based only in Judo, but also in CACC, a cool information source is the Instagram @the_catch_wrestling_in_bjj . And besides the difference in emphasis, BJJ is also different because BJJ has his own specific positioning, just search "BJJ's position hierarchy". Judo, normal judo nor kosen, is not BJJ, by saying this you just take away the credits of guys like Dudu, and Maeda's CACC teachers, these guys are part of BJJ's history and birth, as much as the judo guys and judo. Soon, BJJ is not "JuSt jU JuTsU duh duh duh 🤪🥴🙃" You Judo guys need to cut the umbilical cord 😂🤣
@@memysurname7521 Imagine if he discovers that in Brazil there is a martial art called Luta Livre Esportiva that has it roots in wrestling and is very close to no gi bjj and that they were developed together with a strong rivalry between them. And also that in Brazil there are lot of differrent styles of folk or indigenous wrestling that also had their contribution to what bjj and bll (luta livre esportiva) became.
I like the old man he seems wise
Many thanks for posting this. I found it very interesting.
Thank you for sharing it.
The part about the use of guard pull to prevent being thrown (ippon ending the game) by bigger or more experienced judokas and newaza as a way to draw against those same, as well as the team spirit of kosen judoka is also described in the book "Osaekomi" by World champion Katsuhiko Kashiwazaki.
Thanks for the comment. I have searched for Kashiwazaki's books on "Osaekomi" and "Shime-waza" but can never find them for sale (except for very high prices second hand online). Interesting that he makes the same points is "Osaekomi".
@@CombatLifeSoft Good news then: you can buy them new (reprinted I guess) for 12£ directly on the publisher's website (Fighting Films).
In my opinion, _Osaekomi_ and _Shimewaza_ are only introductory books by Kashiwazaki regarding his level. It's totally different from Kashiwazaki's instructional videos where you see the guy is top notch. However, they are very good books to work on sound fundamentals, you read here and there details from an expert and as mentioned in my previous comment, the "non-technical" part is also interesting (the history of osaekomi ans shimewaza, is it worth to apply them in self-defence and how, etc).
_Fighting Judo_ is a must though half of the moves are now forbidden :D . However, it's no longer printed so if you don't want to pay a ton of money to speculators for a second-hand book, the only option is to download it.
I also downloaded _Vital _Judo_ by Isao Okano for the same reason and I ordered the reprinted Italian version (I don't speak Italian) so that the author gets his share for his work.
PS: If by any chance you speak French and you love ne waza, you can also find the pdf version of Kawaishi's _Ma méthode de judo_ ( _My method of judo_ exists in English but I have never found it).
Kawaishi led to the development of judo in France in the 30's and his manual includes a lot of submissions that you mostly see in BJJ nowadays, useful details to really *understand* basic osaekomi (it also includes the unusual "kata osae gatame" which is more or less the "Darce choke" in BJJ).
However, the downside of this book is that throws and submissions are explained but no how to train them or the practical situations to reach the final position (though it's not always true but it is kind of bamboozling to link them together).
@@MeroGrumble Excellent - thanks for the information! I will have a look at those books.
@@MeroGrumble Great to know about Kawaishi - I don't speak French but maybe some others who watch this video will, so it could be useful for them. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing!
Would give anything to have a chance to roll with Sensei here & learn from him. So many decades of experience under his belt, it must be enlightening to roll with him... once you're conscious again.
What legend.
👍👍👍
This was an awesome video
Fascinating. Thank you for sharing.
I,ve trained at nagoya university sometimes and I have seen him there.
Very cool. 🥋
This video was so awesome bro I can't even thank you enough for going out and finding this amazing man and information.
This is basically exactly what happened when Judo came to Brazil. This guy developed it like they did. The grappling and ground game continuation. Regular Judo is the throw and if it's not ippon sarayanaga then a quick armbar and it's done... Definitely subscribing
BJJ
Basically Just Judo
JUDO
Basically just Japan JiuJitsu
This is BJJ, some of the Gracie's won't admit it but kosen had an influence on count chokes judo
Carlos Gracie and Felipe França learned "jiu jitsu". They never heard about "kosen" or "judo" in 1920. Carlos Gracie opened his dojo in 1925 at Rio de Janeiro as "jiu-jitsu classes". Oswaldo Fadda (a black-belt from Felipe França) opened his dojo in 1940 at Rio de Janeiro as "jiu-jitsu classes" too. In 1940, there was no japonese imigrants in Rio de Janeiro. Japonese people only imigrated to Rio after the 2th World War and they opened many "Judô" dojos in Rio de Janeiro.
I get what u are saying but I'm saying " count choke" trained fusen ryu" kosen judo before he came over seas brother..
In Japan they had an annual Martial arts challenge to all styles and judo placed 1st for number is yours until fusen ryu jujitsu came on the seen and they...
as soon as the match would start the fusen Jujitsu guys would pull guard straight to the ground into a choke, armbar or leg lock beating the kodokan judokas repeatedly so kano later had some of his...
students go and be taught under these fusen ryu jujitsu black belts and " count choke" was 1 of those students that went and learned fusen ryu jujitsu.
So a team mindset because of the ruleset causes individual players to use pulling the opposing player down into Newaza to avoid losing and either win on the ground or maintain a draw. This nullifies the better thrower and helps the team overall. BJJ comes directly from this idea except without the team. Nullify the bigger attacker by going to the ground.
Of course in an actual attack being adept at throws, trips and sweeps makes way more sense wether it’s so you can then escape or have to defend against another attacker.
Newaza in general but guard play more so should not be the focus if your training for self defense and even cop or bouncer would be better off on top in Newaza.
Every rule set lends itself to highlight different skills. Something to be learned from all three variations.
what is better? bjj or kosen judo for ground fighting?
In BJJ "Pulling guard" is very different than going for a sacrifice throw in Judo and thats what makes the big difference! In Judo were ALWAYS trying to WIN the takedown
I'm doing research on katame no kata.
Is it possible to have a document or to know which were the techniques of the first katame no kata with 10 techniques?
Watch Chadi videos
💯💯💯👍👍👍🔥🔥🔥
Good !!
so in short kosen judo is focusing on newaza and competition aspect? correct me if what I understand is wrong
Yes, that's correct - more chance for newaza in competition
This is the martial art that the Gracies learned from Mitsuyo Maeda, renaming it Gracie Jiu Jitsu, deceiving the whole world by saying that they were the inventors.
No. Sorry but 1 thing is to love Judo, another is to be blind. BJJ is not based only in Judo, but also in CACC, a cool information source is the Instagram @the_catch_wrestling_in_bjj . And besides the difference in emphasis, BJJ is also different because BJJ has his own specific positioning, just search "BJJ's position hierarchy". BJJ is a grandchild of Dudu and of the guys that taught CACC to Maeda as much as is of the japanese judo guys. Give credit where credit is due. Good bye.
@@memysurname7521 So, BJJ is fundamentally different from judo because someone figured out that being on top or in someone's back is more advantageous than being pressed or choked from behind? I feel enlightened. :)
@@memysurname7521 I know you must hate the fact that the Gracies literally just marketed Ne Waza as theirs even though majority of the techniques were invented in Japan.
Helio Gracie denied in inventing anything. The only Gracie who made such a claim is Kron. The accusation that the Gracies have taken credit of everything seems like a strawman lie fabricated by deluded egotistical fools like you
The Gracies learned Kodokan judo. Maeda was a Kodokan black belt. He left Japan in 1904 before the Kosen rules were established.
Kosen is a set of rules, not an art. The title makes little sense.
The conversation in the video is about IJF rules vs Kosen rules.
The art is the same.
Exactly. Kodokan Judo is the OG Judo.
This looks better than judo or bjj to me. If I were going to start again I would want kosen judo
So the Gracie's trained kosen judo changed the rules like.. Eddie bravo bjj comp rules from ibjf but thats all because of.. helio he invented the guard and leverage and the wheel 🤷 so kron Gracie and his sons said
Dude Kosen Judo is what they call today “Brazilian” Jiu-Jitsu
I'm just waiting for catch wrestling enthusiasts to claim they taught judokas submissions. Jujitsu submissions have existed since the samurai
In that case don't watch Shayna Baeszler's channel. She's big on letting people know that certain holds came from catch wresting.
What does CACC have to do with the video? Why can’t you just enjoy the historical knowledge this man is dropping without name dropping? 🙄
They do already claim that. I figure there’s only so many ways to bend an arm…I’m sure more than one person thought of them all independently of each other.
Kosen judo seem very near to bjj..it all focus on ne waza
Ok the sensei only explained the different rules between both judo and kosen judo ... and I knew that, already. ..
The golden question was and still is - who is better, stronger and more complete in a fight. .. kosen judo or kodokan judo ...
I belive that this is the milion dollar question. .. what style is in fact more complete in a real fighting scenario. ...
Please if anyone knows for sure or has an idea of what style it's better please say it and give me the reasons for your answer. ..
Thank you for helping me on this ...
Luis, I believe kodokan judo is more complete art (hell, it even has atemi-waza), YET it is hard as hell to find schools, who teach it in its full form. Atleast here in Europe, vast majority practice the "sport", olympic version, sanctioned by old men in suits. Half or more of original arsenal is banned under their rules in competition, therefore young athletes are very limited.
@@OkurkaBinLadin that's new to me , and great thanks man, you pointed out valid issues that I didn't imagine and changed my position about kodokan Judo ...
Cause I always thought that kosen judo had the advantage over judo and pretty much over most martial arts out there, beside jiu-jitsu , Sambo and wrestling ...
Thanks once more for sharing with me a little bit of the insides of kodokan Judo ...
@@luisphilipesilva try Luta livre
@@oneguy7202 I would love to tryout Luta livre but I don't have any gym near me teaching that type of grappling. ..
@@luisphilipesilva unfortunately the Luta livre have very poor organization is funny that you can find a ll gym more easy in Europe than Brazil, also bjj absor/steal a lot thing from LL and call it no gi
二村先生です 木村は間違いです
The real judo
the father of bjj
So Kosen is better? This makes it look that way.
It just has a different focus because of the different rules
It’s a different competitive ruleset of the same art
Kosen (technical college) is an abbreviation for KOto-SENmon-gakko (college of technology). "Kosen" judo is still Kodokan judo. They still learn the same throws and pins that you do at any other club around the world. Its just that the kosen clubs focus most of their training on newaza and are more proficient at it than regular judo schools. Its not that its better, its just what this sensei was trained in and prefers.
@@barrettokarate if they're the same thing. Then what are the types of Judo ? I know that there is Shotokan and Kyokoshin etc... for Karate... What about Judo ?
dude i respect both judo and bjj. I have been training judo for abour 4-5 years and i recently started bjj, but please, stop saying that this is bjj, bjj comes frum judo,judo comes from ju jitsui
I hope to practice this one day. Shame in Jordan we don't have kosen judo
Assalam Alaykum wa Ramatullahi wa Barakatuh. I can go to Jordan and teach Kodokan and Kosen Judo.
@@EduardoRodriguez-ks4em wa alaikom al salam!
How can this be done?
Honestly BJJ is better. Kosen judo does not allow leg locks and only grapple with gi. BJJ has evolved with global participation and is even included with JJIF, Abu Dhabi, and is gonna be a introductory sport in 2024 Paris Olympics
@@EduardoRodriguez-ks4em where are you from ?
BJJ = guard.
Kosen Judo = turtle position, flat on the belly position.
That is far too simplistic. You will see guards in any kosen judo club in Japan. Turtle and flat positions are common in international judo, because of the rule to re-start the players standing if there is not action on the ground. There is no rule like that in kosen judo.
@@CombatLifeSoft , this is only after the BJJ influence. If you see videos of Kosen tournaments from the 80's the were not playing guard at all.
@@CombatLifeSoft Sorry but the truth is that your video is a judoka's wet dream. People want kosen to be bjj before bjj. Hasn't this idea that the kosen had a guard been refuted by Osvaldo Alves years ago? And Osvaldo Alves was a huge fanboy for judo and kimura. Sorry but ... come on.
One more thing, BJJ is not based only in Judo, but also in CACC, a cool information source is the Instagram @the_catch_wrestling_in_bjj . And besides the difference in emphasis, BJJ is also different because BJJ has his own specific positioning, just search "BJJ's position hierarchy". Good bye.
@@memysurname7521 You are gravely mistaken: Use of the guard can be seen in old black&white pictures, on many pages of "My method of judo" by Mikinosuke Kawaishi (trained in the 1920's), Isao Okano's books (who trained... Oswaldo Alves), Katsuhiko Kashiwazaki (deeply influenced by Kosen before BJJ was even a thing internationally), etc. Pick a book, it will answer your question above.
@@markymarco2570 They werent playing guard in the 80s? Video evidence begs to differ.
czcams.com/video/H-T1Ol9dL8Q/video.html
This seems like a More affective form of Judo
Nope, is similar to bjj plus osekomi, oswaldo Alves,George Mehdi and Joe moreira bring things from kosen judo directly to bjj
Just a different focus.
BJJ and Kosen Judo is a more affective form of grappling than Kodokan Judo. They’re searching for the finish while Kodokan Judo is searching for a throw
@@wayne47able judo have finishing move..
JE Auto Sales Judo does having finishing moves that they rarely use and the techniques aren’t as advanced the way are in BJJ in terms of the set ups and the various options to finish them
What are these prayers he keeps talking about. Lol
Lol judoka (players), but yeah, he has a very Japanese pronunciation
Gracias didn't invent shit.
Can't wait for their and the Valente brothers reaction when the Robert Drysdale documentary finally comes out. Its already pissing off guys like Fabio Gurgel.
@@barrettokarate when will it come out ?
be funny to see some punk thinking how he will rob this old man..................
id beat him in a fight
youth beats skill !