What if you don't want a Thunderbird? The search for 9/5/0/2 | Flight Numbers Don’t Matter
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2023
- Why don't more discs have the same numbers as the Innova Thunderbird? We go in search of comparable discs, regardless of the numbers!
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These types of videos are quickly becoming my favorite disc golf videos on yt. Keep it up!
Near A+ work with this video. Only thing I would like to see is maybe a few different thunderbirds charted as well (champ, tour series, gstar) to compare how big the flight differences are within the plastics/releases vs completely different molds!
I love these types of videos. I would like to seem more comparisons like this.
Been playing since college in ‘01, primary forehand guy ex baseball player. There is only one 9 speed fairway that will hold stable with reliable fade and ZERO TURN. It’s a thunderbird. Backhand, forehand, it’s coming out of anhyzer… popping up flat and cruising straight for 300-325 with a reliable finish. Really not sure why more people don’t throw these. Especially on windy days.
Haha I bag the volt and I'm glad you tested a few plastics to realize there was something going on instead of just trying one and sticking it somewhere. I've been bagging volts for a while and I haven't been super happy with MVP's consistency in them over the years. I even took it out of the bag for a while and tried thunderbirds, but came back to volts after I lost my thunderbird.
I bag two first run Volts ( bought when they first released,pre flight #'s neutron) and have tryed every plastic since plus the 10yr anniversary release. The closest I have found to the orginal flight is lighter fission Volts. All of the Volts I tryed I have sold or traded away and just keep my O.G Volts.
I LOVE this video. This is the exact video format players like me need when deciding how to fill certain slots in the bag. A+ content and I can't wait for more.
Thanks John! Glad you like it, there will be more!
I've also found that fission discs at the same weight wind up being just as overstable if not more overstable than their neutron counterparts at first flight! Glad to hear some confirmation of that!
My hunch is that since fission is a naturally lighter weight plastic if you get a heavier weight fission a higher percentage of the weight is in the rim rather than the core which makes the disc more stable.
These are the exact kinda videos that answer the endless questions I've asked my more experienced friends while I'm getting into disc golf. Absolutely stellar topic choices on this channel. Thank you!
Thanks for watching, glad you're enjoying it!
I'm not sure if we have any endgame from this series, or a specific goal, other than awareness. However, I would love to see more manufacturers adjust flight numbers for the plastic, it is a huge oversight for new players that is learned through potentially expensive trial and error.
@@SixSidedDiscs completely agree. Some sort of benchmark sport-wide would be amazing but it'll probably never happen. I feel like even though not everyone could throw the same as that benchmark, it would at least give you something concrete to compare your flights to. I'm not a power thrower, but if I knew how much off I was from a benchmark, I could just apply that to each disc. Idk if that makes sense, but it's just a pipe dream anyway.
These comparisons are AWESOME! Keep these going as they are super helpful!
I very much like the X/Y axis plotter to show where the different discs fall in comparison, and relative to the goal of duplicating or approximating the flight characteristics of a particular disc. Awesome videos. Have watched many in my short time as a new player this summer.
As a statistics and research analysis enthusiast, I have to say, the " Flight Numbers Don't Matter" videos are very intriguing and eye-opening. Many of my first purchases were based strictly on the numbers being accurate to the disc's projected behavior.
The advice of a local disc merchant proved to be more in tune with what my desired results, because of his years of past experience.
Love the content. Keep it up. Subbed and I'm a fan!
This is a pretty interesting premise for a video in its own right. I enjoyed that it was motivated by real experiences with your customers. Love that! Great vid.
you do a great job man. so well done. Im from Columbus too so its awesome to see throws on courses I play
Great video, been throwing the Vulture for years, so it does confirm why I keep reaching for it. Keep it up!
this sort of testing is my new go to when it comes to researching disc's worth trying!
First video I have seen, amazing voice and really good video!
Great comparison of those discs! Not much missing, very useful to see the actual flight path and then the overview where each disc stands compared to the TB.
Such a great review, thank you!
cannot believe this is free content. Thank you for your work!
Great video - very thorough
From my personal journey I've found that the closest thing I've found to a nice Star Thunderbird is a Champion Savant. The Savant is 9,5,-1,2 but the champ plastic gives it that extra little bit of stability. I also really like the Anax for that slot between a Thunderbird and Destroyer.
What you said about the S-Line PD is spot on. This explains why I love it so much! Transitioned away from Innova to Discmania a while ago.
Yeah this was easily the most informative video on disc golf frisbees I’ve ever seen. The video example, plus the break down was awesome! Thank you! More more hahaha
Ask and you shall receive! Thanks for the kind words!
As someone who has never supported flight numbers (for the exact reasons your videos show), thank you for doing this!
Thanks for showing the vulture some love. i throw thunderbird and vulture. Great discs. torque resistant and minimal fade.
S-line PD was a good replacement for my Big Jerm Thunderbird. Specifically the Nordic Phenom.
Well done. Great video.
When I heard Thought Space Athletics I totally expected the Votum, since it is 8.5 5 0 2 and from my experience it totally meets the flight requirements (at least in the glow plastic).
We'll have to put it on the list for round 2 in the future! I'm not sure we had any around at the time we tested or not.
@@SixSidedDiscs Well actually nevermind :D. I just found out the manufacturer has it labeled as 7 5 0 3. Those numbers above are from one of my local shops.
Since I throw quite far, this is my go to driver for 100-120m throws and when I saw the followflight of the Thunderbird, this was the disc that came to mind immediately.
Awesome video. Great presentation. 👍👍
Awesome review! Needthis for lots of other discs!
Really enjoyed this video! Would love to see more like this
And so you shall! Plenty more in the works!
Thank you so much for this review. As an intermediate armature I had the exact same experience with the volt and the c-line PD. Try the L64 opto sapphire though a 10 speed it seems similar to the thunderbird
Flight numbers are awesome! And they helped me fine tune my disc golf game. I always pay attention to flight numbers
Agree. I started playing disc golf in the 90s before flight numbers and it was a pain to find what you wanted in stability. Modern flight numbers aren't perfect but they give you an idea. You just have to know each company is a bit different with the numbers and what they mean for your arm speed and release.
legacy vengeance is also a pretty comparable option. little faster and maybe slightly more overstable but that pinnacle plastic is pretty sweet
We're gonna have to test it! You and several others have suggested it, thanks for the tip!
Well made video, thank you
Keep up the awesome content. I am sure many will tell you how many discs you missed. I do not mean to belabor the huge collection of comparisons, but am curious if the Westside Longbowman was ever considered. I think its numbers are fairly similar. Despite the numbers, I am glad that you left out the Escape. I would never think it similar to the Thunderbird.
Subscribed because of this video! Excellent review and format. I currently throw Prodigy and the Thunderbird slot has been one they haven't quite nailed down for awhile. The newest in Kevin Jones' collaboration discs called the "Feedback" is 9/5/-1/3, however a lot of the Prodigy throwers have said it flies very similar to the Thunderbird. Guess I will have to find out!
Thanks for subscribing! Glad you enjoyed the video, the format will definitely continue. The Feedback sounds interesting! Might be a good like for like!
I like your OHIO disc in the background.
Thanks! We are a sponsor of the disc golf club at Ohio State and that is their fundraiser stamp on a Prodigy Spectrum A2, we have a couple still in stock, just not as awesome as that purple one!
1st time watching one of your videos and I must say it's excellent! looking forward to checking out your library . Would love to see a comparison on the Innova It and similar disc like the Vortex, mainly because they have the same flight numbers but very different wing curve.
Thanks for watching and glad you liked it! We don't claim to know everything but its fun to experiment and see what we can learn! (Stay tuned for another new one very soon!)
I have 4 mvp Shocks all same weigh, same plastic..The purple is straigh and I get full flight from it. I have two red ones that are meat hooks, and one white in between…
I did buy the purpel first and really like/liked it a lot and they did buy 3 more and were really unhappy with them. So the variance between individual disks can be really big!
Just found this channel after the coverage of the A tier down in Arizona. Loving the content , may be the only channel I have actually hit the bell icon for lol. Curious question though, for these vids, how many throw are usually utilized for each disc test?
Thanks for watching and for asking! It depends of course but at least 5 or so throws each until we feel like we are seeing how that specific disc flies. Some videos have taken more, some less.
Awesome video good sir!
Great video
Keep them coming! no one talks about these topics and I feel disc manufacturers are muddying the waters intentionally to promote their own brands
great video!
Great video!!
Love this content. I personally tried to find an non-innova thunderbird and had a similar headache. It seems though that you're trying to find a 'Star Thunderbird' as opposed to a 'Champion Thunderbird. Just worth it to note that as you're comparing discs to a specific plastic which tends to be a little more understable than the champ. If people were looking for a champion thunderbird replacement, maybe they'd want to try the Honor or PD.
Glad you're enjoying the content, thanks for watching! Love the mention of just swapping to another disc as a Star vs Champion slot, I've done this with other molds before. I'm not a huge Innova fan personally, I've thrown a lot of their discs in the last few years but I'm not a huge fan of their plastics so I usually end up with that sort of scenario where I want a "Firebird" but straighter and so I have an ESP Raptor or something like that
Back when I threw Thundies, Star was a beat in Firebird replacement and Champion was a longer TL... So the replacing discs from MVP were Wraths and Teslas. Nowadays I throw Volts and Terras in those slots. And yeah, Fission discs take some time to get used the, they tend to lock onto an angle so you kind of have to throw them like a putter.
Just recently found the channels and the video quality is top notch and content very interesting. I'll definitely sub and go through some of the earlier ones.
What comes to this video in particular, I would've loved to hear your thoughts on DD Getaway as the numbers are close and what I've heard could be the best bet from Trilogy.
L64 Culverin would be another interesting one.
Thanks for the suggestions! Every time we do one of these videos we get a ton of great suggestions on other discs so I'm sure we'll end up back at the same flight numbers multiple times to test a few more and see how they compare.
Love this! What is the “7/5/0/0” the dead straight woods disc DD Maverick, TeeBird, Lonestar FRIO there are so many
I love the vulture!!! I bag 2-3
Closest I have found to a thunderbird is a VIP Bear 8, 6, -.5, 2.5. The turn of -.5 helps it stay straight for a long time and it has a consistent fade at the end of the flight like a thunderbird.
In what sense did this prove that flight numbers don't matter? Every single follow flight looked fundamentally the same. He even pointed out several times that a disc was more or less something according to what the flight numbers said it would be. I feel like I just watched someone show me all the data and then talk loudly over it with the opposite conclusions. Great production quality on the video though, so hats off to that.
I feel like one contender was missed. The Convict in lucid plastic for me filled the Thunderbird slot in my bag.
One improvement if you do more of these videos, please flip understable to be the right side of the graph and overstable to be left side of the graph, it feels a bit backwards with overstable being on the right of the graph in a disc golf context (similar to how you would see it on a stability chart of discs). First time watching one of your videos, great video. Definitely going to go check out the backlog of videos now!
Check out our midrange video, while we didn't use the exact same chart, I did take the feedback on over vs under stability being left and right respectively. Hope you enjoy our backlog!
Great video, very informative. Would love if you added a 800ish rated more noodle arm player to your tests. Love the graphics and the follow flight.
Its hard to get the 800 rated thrower (me lol) to release discs consistently enough haha but worth a try!
@@SixSidedDiscs Love to see you throw in the video, give it a shot. I saw Robbie C recently do a MA-3 Tourney commentary and it was one of my favorite videos. Helped me finish top-5 in my league recently, and is a nice separator as most content online is geared towards MPO arms. Once again, thanks for the time you put into these.
I love my diablo. my game wouldn't be the same without it
Talking about soft plastic I had a g star avery Jenkins destroyer I loved that plastic it was awesome
cool video, good info. what about a Getaway? that's what replaced the Thunderbird in my bag.
my Champion Thurderbird is nice for hyzer to 275 into headwind if low head wind i use my Champion Firebird.. if i have a tailwind i can use a mid ranges like a beat up Star Jay for strong tailwinds or my beat up Star Caiman for low tailwind situations.. all 275 hyzer all the way shots.. i can pop them all up to flat if i need more distance! Wind mainly decides my shots and disc selections..
Really loving these videos. It's like you reached into my brain on what I would like to see when comparing discs.
great video
Yeah the Honor is basically just a thunderbird with better plastic and more accurate flight numbers.
Personally though I also think Lat64 Musket perfectly matches what you described.
As a plastic, Diamond is definitely unimpressive. Gateway has some wayyyy better blends
Lets gooooo, love me a PD for my Thunderbird slot ;)
Hey Greg, I've seen recently in a comparison by Taylor at Desert Trek Media that the MVP Tesla (9 5 -1 2) is a bit more stable than 2 other discs he compared with nearly identical flight numbers, so that might actually fly close to a Thunderbird.
Yes! My tesla at least flies almost exactly like the thunderbirds I've thrown
Thanks for the tip! I'm sure it depends on the plastic/run but I had only had one Tesla available, it was a Proton lab second from the gyropalooza box and it was SOOOOO overstable it wasn't worth mentioning, though we did throw it.
No. A tesla is more overstable. I have both in my bag and don't really use the tesla much.
@@SixSidedDiscs what about big z vulture. I Know it's a 10 speed but it's flatter making it feel smaller than thunderbirds. Flys the same for me.
@@SixSidedDiscs also COSMIC Neutron lift is pretty close
I think different runs are different stability on some of those suggestions. I had a champ thunderbird and an esp undertaker that flew identically. I found my undertaker was more over stable than other people's undertakers (after throwing a few). Thing had 0 turn for sure.
I recently lost my esp vulture and just ordered a color glow champion Thunderbird. I hope it flies similar with better grip.
I had a big z vulture that I really liked.
Love these vids. But feel you should have the overstable section to the left of your grid. As that’s the side over-stable is when tossed with a backhand. Just a thought. As your placement of discs always throws me off when I see the visual portion of your vids. Cheers.
The Vulture is a great disc. I would put it between the Teebird and Thunderbird in regard to speed. The rim on the Vulture is not as wide as the Thunderbird, so it feels more comfortable. I've thrown the PD, Thunderbird, Orion LF (underrated mold), Getaway, and Banzai. I settled on the Vulture as the best of all worlds. Highly recommended for those looking for a manageable stable disc. Try the ESP or Titanium for a less stable version, if need be.
Love your channel < 3 i just purchased a Flare btw which is similar but not the same as a Thunderbird
The Flares I have thrown are really overstable
@@SixSidedDiscs some would say too overstable hah..
Wraith/Destroyer discs would be nice to see :)
When i want to fill a slot in my bag i buy 3-4 similar discs and throw them until i choose 1
My most recent battle was a discraft scorch vs a innova mystere vs a mvp wave. The wave made its way into my bag
Its cool to test a discmania PD but it seems you missed that innova has that exact disc, which is the Invictus. And both the PF and invictus DO have the same flight
I recently fell in a rabbit hole with your flight numbers don’t matter series. My favorite disc-related videos on CZcams. Do you have a compilation of the graphs you show at the end of all the videos anywhere?
Hey glad you’re enjoying our videos! We approach each video/set of numbers differently and some have charts and graphs and some don’t. At the moment there isn’t any compilation of them but perhaps we should pit one together on our website
@@SixSidedDiscs as a newer player watching the flight paths of each disc was very eye opening. I hated my Gstar thunderbird but loved my champion thunderbird. You made it make sense 😂. I was going to just screen shot the charts at the end of all the videos but if you do make a chart and post it anywhere that would be greatly appreciated!
Thunderbird are also WILDLY different depending on the run. Probably the biggest difference of any disc I've ever seen. The old 2017s were nice and straight with a hard finish yet the new halo ones are more stable than me 11x firebird. If you want my opinion the old 2017s are what I consider a true Thunderbird. The discraft anax is an amazing substitute. They are basically exactly the same.
Give the new RPM Tara Iti a go. We have thrown them side by side with Thundys and feel it throws exactly the same. Cheers
I love my thunderbirds. I do like to know what other companies make in similar flight numbers. I bag the Anax as my beefy thunderbird for windy and longer courses.
I can see the PD or C Line PD being a step up for different conditions as well, obviously that's the best part about modern disc golf is if you find a disc that is pretty much what you want but maybe you don't like the plastic or want to support a different company instead, you have options.
i love my mint alphas as a thunderbird replacement. the most recent runs of sublime and eternal fly like my thundy, but without the sharp flashing. maybe less glide though
All the talk about flashing on Prodigy discs thanks to the Gannon Bohr lawsuit reminded me that I've cracked open boxes of plenty of Innova discs with flashing as well, and of course other brands, Prodigy are far from being alone on this issue.
@@SixSidedDiscs Flashing might not be the right word. i just mean the little (intentional) bevel on the underside of the rim. the thunderbird was one of my first fairways and i absolutely loved it, but now that i'm used to a different hand feel on the alpha i find the thunderbird uncomfortable in my hand. still love the way it flies though
I would love to see one done with the Innova Star Leopard 👍.
I use really beat up innova monsters to fill that slot
I like domey mvp volt for that spot. less glide but if you get a domey one it glides better than the flight numbers indicate
The mold I found to be most similar to a Thundy is the Culverin.
Would love to see this with the discmania vanguard in both their plastics
Big issue with a lot of manufacturers is consistency. Innova has always been a crapshoot for me.
Discraft and Lat 64 tend to fly by the numbers more often (but even then some randomly are meat hooks or Flippy).
Would love to see you compare something like 10 different Thunderbird's (same weight/plastic) vs 10x Vulture's. My money is on Discraft for a consistent flight.
DD Getaway: 9 5 -1 3. Can't believe you didn't try this one; it's slightly less stable than the new Honor and flies remarkably similar (IMO) to the Thunderbird. I've been bagging it for over a year and haven't found anything that can take it's place. Great video, thanks!
Thanks for the suggestion David, we tested the ones we had available to us at the time, but this is just one of many other suggestions we've had, so I'm sure we will revisit the Thunderbird slot in the near future.
Funny I use both a halo thunderbird and a stock s-line PD. Thunderbird or CD1 are my go to fairways and when the wind is a little too strong for them the PD comes out.
I bagged both a Star Thunderbird and an S Line PD for awhile, I sort of still do though I'm not throwing either much at the moment because of my elbow issues.
Love the Nordic Phenom
i like Savants as well.
Did you happen to try the prodiscus talisman? It flies similar for me personally but I do not have a huge arm I typically throw 320-340
im shocked that you didn't try the getaway, In my experience its pretty similar
Over the last two weeks I purchased and immediately lost not one, but TWO Halo Roadrunners. Given how pricey the Halo discs are, I've been trying to figure out what standard disc they fly most similar to, because it sure as hell isn't a Roadrunner. These are the exact type of flights I'm looking for. I'm mostly an MVP guy, so I'll have to take a look at the Wrath and Coalesce, maybe even the Thunderbird and Vulture. Thanks!
I never throw my Thunderbird backhand lol i swear it was made for forehand. It handles torque so well, i trust it more than any disc in my bag for forehand shots. Ill literally pick it over a midrange or putter and just slow it down to 150-250 or step on it and get 350.
This is another thing that goes under the radar. Just how different a disc can feel from one person to another. I've never felt a Thunderbird that worked with my forehand grip, it always feels a little too deep and digs into my hand along the inside edge of the rim.
Awesome format. If your testers aren't too shy about it, it would be nice to see flight distances or at least know their average distance with the relevant type of disc.
Yea, we're not too focused on the distances but I wouldn't mind making that part of the video, I think a lot of time it isn't all about distance but about the shot shape, how it gets there, but I have no doubt you're not the online one who'd like to have them!
Should try viking Discs-Barbarian.
my experience with thunderbirs was great, It was my first driver and as i got more experience, I loved thunderbird.
unfortunately one tournament it flew into water and lost forever.
I bought one thunderbird and it was hella overstable - felt like 9/5/0/4 and lost it...
So I bought another one with better expectation... it was like 9/5/0/3... then i lost my patience and had to try new driver for me..
numbers does matter ( you are looking for understable or overstable disc it is lot easier ) - but you have to expect that every disc is flying differently. same with clutch in car, every clutch is little bit different in every car
Thanks! I also love your suggestion because you mention 2 discs that have straight flight numbers (Maverick: 7/4/-1.5/2 and Frio: 7/5/-1/1) with the TeeBird (7/5/0/2) but so so many people I know throw the TeeBird slot for a "Straight fairway driver". When Discmania started making the FD again recently, I was excited, like ooo 7/5/0/1, straight fairway, I need this. So I grab a C-Line off the shelf and it flies like 7/5/0/4, absolute beef cake. This will 100% make it into a future video LOL
@@SixSidedDiscs Same with FD last year and propably same numbers like you.
BUT! from other side of this.
I found Svea 5/6/-1/0 - immidiaetly switch from fuse (which every Fuse was different) and LOVE Svea!
Then my friend bought two Grym drivers 13/5/-2/2 and both of them flight as number said! miracle we tought, BUT! every disc from kastaplast is doing everything as printed numbers.
I have no idea how or why or if every disc was just chosen one, but for me Kastaplast discs... I can confirm from my experience, they fly as their numbers.
(might be realy realy realy lucky hand, but not even close with another brand of discs ever was even close)
ps: sorry for broken english
Would love to see you compare a Discmania Vanguard to a Thunderbird. Its supposed to fly between a pd and cd1
Funny you should mention it…it is in my bag for my Thunderbird slot lol
@SixSidedDiscs 🤘Do a video on it, man. Great disc, and it supports a great player. Kyle Klein is my guy.
I know youre not an innova fan, Greg, but why was the Teebird3 not included? Near the top of the list when you searched on trydiscs. Its my go-to in a headwind.
We actually threw it in a Teebird comparison video very recently!
My neutron tesla flies almost exactly like my friends thuderbird. Maybe a little less glide but otherwise really comparable
Surprised the Lat64 Saint didnt make the list but realized it had a -1 turn. Still, ive always thrown it as my thunderbird alternative. Same spot in the bag you know?
The Saint is one of those discs that I wanted to test in this video but we just didn't have any in stock right now. Putting it on the list for a follow up!
Discmania PD is very close for me.
I bagged both a Star Thunderbird and an S Line PD and after awhile I wasn't sure had both, I think I convinced myself that I liked the PD for big high hypers but not for lower flat shots