Naruto vs Ichigo - The Honest Outcome
Vložit
- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Since both series were ongoing back in the 2000s and ended in the mid 2010s, Naruto and Bleach have always been compared to one another, being a part of the biggest 3 franchises in the Shonen jump’s ever expanding catalog. Fans of both series or potentially detractors of the other often compare Naruto and Ichigo in terms of their power, Many Ichigo fans claim that he could simply stand there while Naruto is debilitated by his spiritual pressure and Naruto fans on the other side claim that Ichigo simply doesn’t have the feats to compare to the whisker faced Nine Tails Jinchuriki. Today, we are going to take a look at both sides of the argument to determine who truly comes out on top in a fight between two of the most iconic main characters in all of eastern storytelling.
The Critcal Drinker Original Video
• The Flash - A Hot Mess
Senna and The Valley of Screams Star Level Calc:
vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Use...
BGM in Order of Appearance
Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 - License Card Theme
The King of Fighters XV - Member Select
Shin Megami Tensei IMAGINE - 21 Home No. 3
Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 - Ghost Rider’s Theme
Deadpool (2013) - Main Menu Theme
The King of Fighters 2002 Unlimited Match - Desert Requiem (Ikari Warriors Theme)
The King of Fighters XIV - Follow Me (Instrumental Ver.)
Samurai Shodown (2019) - Sturm und Drang (Main Menu Theme)
Samurai Shodown - Banquet of Nature (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Remix)
Samurai Shodown (2019) - The Crow (Kurama Yashamaru Theme)
J-Stars Victory VS+ - The Styx
Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 - I Wanna Take You For A Ride (Rock Remix)
J-Stars Victory VS+ - Ninja Slayer
The King of Fighters XIII - Tame A Bad Boy
The King of Fighters XIV - Member Select 2
The King of Fighters XV - Sadistic Eyes Remix
Tokyo Rose - Goodbye Almond Eyes (Postal III Ver.)
Chapters
0:00 Introduction
3:38 How Strong is Ichigo?
7:00 Why Ichigo's Power Is Exaggerated
22:52 How Strong is Ichigo? (cont.)
27:21 How Strong is Naruto?
34:45 How Fast is Ichigo?
40:44 How Fast is Naruto?
46:10 So, Who Wins?
53:37 Outroduction - Zábava
bro u are gay
😭😂😂
Yeah definitely is
Homiesexual
This shouldn't even be a question, Ichigo wins without a problem even if you give Naruto six paths
Fr
Yes
He diesnt get past kaguya and surprisingly enough, general consensus still say naruto wins usually. As it should be tbh. Ichigo is only 3x universal in his strongest form. Kaguya made six spacetimes and hokage naruto in base was able to fight someone stronger than kaguya. Base ichigo doesnt have that kinda scaling
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy. you realize kaguya only created a solar system sized realm, meaning she is just solar system
Can you prove that it caps at solar system?
I love both guys but you downplayed Ichigo a lot. You said it yourself, all he does is swing his sword, but his sword cuts souls, Naruto does have healing but to heal his soul? And Ichigo was never really a strength character he was about speed, a fast character with a sword that cuts souls is a nightmare
in fact, the Shinigami do not only cause physical wounds but also to the spirit, for Naruto it would be critical his chakra would become unstable and also that of Kurama, both of them would be exposed to any attack, incredible that it is not talked about especially in the world of Naruto the manipulation of the soul is fatal for everyone, they have their own god of death who is probably, if not, the strongest being in the Naruto-verse.
Ichigo’s has othe abilities this guy just didn’t give a shit to mention them
@@Chillchildren999he has like 5 abilities
@@user-kq9wb6by5v Probably more as an adult
master of 1 vs a knucklehead full of parlor tricks @user-kq9wb6by5v
true bankai ichigo was stated by yhwach to be a threat to him i dont think naruto could even scratch him
Man tried to compare yhwach and naruto cognition skills😂 yhwach whole jig is seeing every outcome
If you think that is bad, you got to hear Naruto fan's argument of:
"Sasuke beats Yhwach because Yhwach fails to see Uryu's arrow coming. Therefore, it's a genjutsu gg, ez clap, low diff fight"
@@Shootingfoul lol
he did tell yhwachs was better than naruto
@@Shootingfoulusing a genjutsu argument is more comparable to kyouka suigetsu. We saw what happened to Aizen
@@joshiiwuh1875 Not the same thing at all
naruto is not underrated everyone watch naruto bleach is underrated bleach need more love my guy ichigoat for life
Fr
Also da man disrespected ichigo bye not giving him any of his great feats
Everyone despises Naruto. Its heavily underrated. No one trashes bIeach anymore. Now yall get overloved.
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.nope everybody despises boruto not naruto
@@mufeezsyed2664It's warranted tho, Eida and Daemon suck balls as characters, and don't get me started on Shibai.
At this point in the manga, Ichigo just achieves his shikai and bankai and is not near to mastering them. We didnt even see his bankai to make a better judgement. Ichigo is always incalculable, and who knows, maybe he can still use Mugetsu. Ichigo is not losing this.
If you think about it TYBW Ichigo is just SS Ichigo with his true zanpakuto man is far from his strongest still lol
Hell arc ichigo will prob be multiversal considering in one of yhwachs futures ichigo beat him in bankai. And he'll will have stronger enemy's that will force him and his son to get strong.
I mean ichigo had trained for what... like 1 year max if that in the entire series. Naruto trained for years to achieve what ichigo basically has by default. If ichigo trained for even 1 more year or 2 years by the hell arc everyone is fucked. I mean could you imagine ichigo if he trained like Goku and how strong he would be by that point.
@@Rory2347If Ichigo did the Goku routine, the verse would erase from his spiritual pressure
@@Rory2347 Ichigo is stated to have mastered his Quincy and Hollow Powers by the time he's an adult so like, imagine a Tri-Bankai-Ressurection-Voltstanding Ichigo.
In the most recent Bleach episode Senjumaru said that Squad 0 had sealed away their true powers behind eachothers' lives due to the fact that they could shake the 3 worlds by simply attacking. She then performs her bankai which is shown to visibly cover and shake the sky of the 3 worlds, and we even see Isshin in the world of the living look up to the sky reacting to it. This means that it travelled through dimensional barriers without a portal, passed through the garganta and valley of screams, and effected these entire dimensions. We know that Ichigo is more than a step above her by the time he fights Yhwach, and were told that he's been fighting while on vacation after TYBW in the CFYOW novel. So by the time that we're caught up with modern day Ichigo, were talking multiversal at minimum. Even if you for some reason ignore muken (which is repeatedly stated to be infinite, so I don't know why you should see it as exaggerated in any way), then you still have the fact that all three worlds have stars and outer space. Gremmy even creates an entire pocket of outerspace with multiple galaxies in it casually, then forgets about it, which destroys it.
Bro you could have just said ichigo successfully passed irazusando( his candidateship for sk ) which said ichigo tanked the gravity of all the cosmology of bleach and then ichibei tell that ichigo has surpassed the normal shinigami( which makes sense because he regained the strength he used to defeat aizen which later confirms by yhwach himself) yes eos ichigo now has solid uni scaling( minimum)😂
@@mufeezsyed2664He’s had Uni scaling since the Arancar back when Aizen destroyed The Cleaner which is a Cosmic being
Squad 0 would smack ichigo
@@IchigoTheQuincy Altogether yes, but 1v1 nah. Ichigo is the only one who could even stand up against Almighty Yhwach. Ichibe didn't even expect to win against Yhwach, he was going to replace the soul king with Ichigo if Yhwach ever won
@@bmxgu2361 just bc ichigo is who they were going to use to replace soul king it doesn’t mean that anyone else in squad 0 wouldn’t be able to be used as a candidate as well and saying ichigo would beat ywach in a 1v1 just is so false, we’re forgetting that ywach demolished ichigo like 4 times all in separate fights, ichigo wasn’t able to beat ywach without aizen using his hypnosis and the silver arrow. Even when ichigo pulled out his final bankai it got completely one shotted and destroyed and in most cases being able to one shot ur opponent would put them in the 7x-10x range of multipliers. Ichigo can’t even beat aizen either, the only reason he even did “beat Aizen” was bc aizen refused to use hypnosis on ichigo and when ichigo surpasses aizens strength, he was about to get back up and smack ichigo but he got sealed by kisuke. Ichigo has literally never beat a final villain by himself ever.
Even if you try to highball naruto and lowball Ichigo, Ichigo still destroys him. Plus Shadow clones share the chakra, it doesn't multiply the chakra. More the shadow clones, lesser chakra they have and easier they'll be destroyed by Ichigo. Ichigo with his false bankai in ss arc (with mere fraction of his true power ) was so fast that he created after images of himself which easily puts him mtfl. His true bankai will massively boost his base stats by 10x at least or more since he's transcendent.
Naruto can transform to Amp himself too
Afterimages isn't mftl, it's like supersonic
@@kakuzugoated873Weaker characters dodged light in the same arc. It's mftl
@@QrowxClover They dodged like 3 meters when the light traveled well over a mile. Speed is distance over time, it's like saying i dodged a car that came at me from a mile away, I'm not 60mph
@@kakuzugoated873 It's still light speed dude, and there are other feats too in other arcs that match it.
Even if these guys had same stats ichigo would stomp, zanpaktos cut trough souls, it’s stated that even if your clone gets his soul sealed it affects your own soul so it makes sense the same logic applies to getting your soul destroyed, Naruto while having great regeneration has never shown any soul regeneration feats, this means than any damage to his soul is permanent, if damage to the soul affects the original too and Naruto can’t regen his soul it means that Naruto can’t use any of his clones as if ichigo kills even one he’s done for, now that we have that dealt with this also means Naruto regeneration won’t work because ichigo’s attacks will all affect his soul, rasengan won’t even work because it’s stated that yin chackra is the spiritual part of chakra, this means that while Naruto can see ichigo, he should need to infuse yin chakra in his rasengan to do it, something we don’t even know if it’s possible for him to do, so Naruto can’t use clones, can’t regen from ichigo’s attack and his rasengan and rasenshuriken won’t work on ichigo while ichigo can regen his soul as it’s shown he regents after getting hit by others zanpaktos and remember he’s a soul so any regeneration feat we see from him it’s a soul regeneration feat. In other words even with equal stats ichigo stomps, (there are so many people who have aldready scaled his stats and it’s as clear as day they are leagues above Naruto’s) Also for the soul thing of clones affecting the original there is a youtuber whose name I don’t remember right now whose whole channel is about Naruto and he’s the one who states it (im gonna search the name, if I remember correctly the dude completely hates Sasuke).
Edit: oh I found him it’s NCHammer 23, I don’t remember the video but I know he said it.
Great points
@@Chillchildren999 thanks
So does Naruto's TSO. It also ca damage and sever soul of the Opponent.
"there is the data book that states that the muken is indeed infinite, but we ain't using that"
There were a few things I found wrong about your bad Bleach takes.
1. 20:26 Hueco Mundo is said to be an "infinite desert" in the light novels. This means that it would be at least universe sized as a galaxy can't be infinite.
2. 19:07 The term "universe" that Rukia used could just be a statement describing the Bleach cosmology, and not limiting it to a universe in size. Rukia stating that it makes up the "universe" is a dumbed down interpretation of the cosmology, as to not confuse Ichigo. This makes sense as this is early in the story and Ichigo is inexperienced with this kind of stuff, so Rukia dumbing it down would make sense.
3. 21:09 The Valley of Screams is infinte because it can house an infinite number of souls, and souls can't just be sealed off or concealed in the SOUL Society, since they are made up of Reishi, therefore the Valley of Screams would have to be infinite in order to house those souls. The translation you found is also dicey, as all other versions I've found said that there are an infinite number of souls, so the one you saw might not have been a proper translation. Although your statements involving Muken can be correct, Muken is hard to include due to being serparate from the SS. The Valley of Screams IS canon as the first movie is said by Kubo to be canon, he debunked the other 3 saying that they are alternate worlds. In a scan describing the size of the Soul Society, they used the kanji: "Uchiu", which means "universe." Unlike "sekai", which is more loose and means world, which can be interpreted differently, "Uchiu" is a universe. So the Soul Society without the Valley of Screams is a universe alone.
4. 16:53 Gremmy saying "space itself" could be a mistranslation, since VIZ in the later chapters have made mistranslations before (see also: Muken mistranslation), meaning it can't be taken for face value as any other translation could just be Gremmy saying he created space. Trusting the translation is a dangerous game in the later chapters since there are errors that have been made. It's always best to translate them yourself if possible to find any wierd scrutinies.
5. 17:05 Although Hell Verse is non-canon, Hell is. It's stated in a scan that hell is a mutiverse, or multi-world, but the kanji is congruent with the multiverse theory. The Soul King created Hell from the primordial world, where it was just a pit, this is stated in the novels. Putting this together, this means that the Soul King made it a Multiverse.
6. 10:10 What Aizen said cannot be Hyperbole since he himself has already transcended. He is also one of the smartest characters in Bleach, and would have to be serious to say that. Him being "enamored" is only a temporal thing, and being on another dimensional plane does not mean you are invisible, it means that you are simply far less bounded by dimensional limits. Ichigo could have also been making sure Aizen could see him, since we know that Yamamoto's flames in his battle against Yhwach would not be visible under any normal circumstances, meaning Ichigo could've dumbed down his form so that Aizen would be shitting bricks by seeing him. Aizen also could not sense his reiatsu in this state, meaning that Ichigo would've surpassed his existence if he can't sense it. There also is a translation that has Aizen saying that Ichigo is on a higher dimension, which is onoy slightly different from the original, but not insanely different from the VIZ one.
7. Just Gremmy in general. Gremmy can't be accurately scaled at all. His power is only limited to his imagination, meaning to do all that he did, he really pictured himself doing this with his clones. Gremmy in theory can also just become stronger than anyone in the verse if he wanted to, even Yhwach was afraid of Gremmy's power, hence why he kept him locked up. If Yhwach didn't lock up Gremmy and/or taught him how to use The Visionary, he could solo his own verse except for Yhwach, who would just take his Scrift away, if he doesn't imagine himself stronger first. But due to a lack of combat experience, he isn't that battle smart to do that. This does not fall under the "no limits fallacy", because he has a limit, his imagination, which was HEAVILY limited. Gremmy becoming as strong as Kenpachi was a mistake he made due to his inexperience and thinking that nobody could wield Kenpachi's power, which made it come to life when he tried, thus contradicting himself. You also said it yourself that Askin was fearing his safety, someone stronger than Gremmy. This does not mean that Gremmy is beyond tiering, it means that he can't be scaled at all, calling him galaxy is a lowball, and calling him outer is a huge wank. He is only really as powerful as the verse he's in is, which even then, he could imagine the verse being vastly larger. If you say that he gets tired when he uses it, he can just imagine himself having infinite reiatsu. Gremmy also is potentially nigh-omniscent since he could imagine having all the knowledge in the verse. Of anything, Gremmy could imagine he's Yhwach, powers and all. Gremmy is a potential platonic concept, but he has no battle experience. Basically, Gremmy is a strong as he wants to be, which unlike Saitama, is only limited by imagination, which is a pretty small limit, and a "no limits fallacy" is not triggered. Saitama is only as strong as Murata wants him to be, which he shows via feats, meanwhile Gremmy is a strong as he fucking wants. Saitama also has been shown to have limited stamina as shown in his fight against Garou, so Saitama does not have the infinite power people make him to be. He has potential, but that's up to the writer. This is why scaling Gremmy is impossible, he has truly infinite potential, since he could upgrade The Visionary, himself, the universe, the multiverse, the complex multiverse, the hyperverse, the outerverse, basically, Gremmy is Gremmy levels of strong, not galaxy level or uni, just Gremmy
Now for some better scaling of Ichigo's speed. Ichigo has infinite speed because he was able to dodge and react to Yhwach's shadows, which covered the INFINITE void of the Gargantia. Ichigo also has irrelevant speed, since he dodged Lillie Barro's sniper shot, which he stated "ignores the concept of dodging." To dodge something, you must be as fast or faster than it, meaning Ichigo would've have to have been ignoring the concept of speed to dodge an attack that ignores the concept of dodging, thus giving Ichigo irrelevant speed (speed that moves beyond the concept itself.)
As for strength, using my points above, which rebunk the cosmology, Ichigo rivaling Yhwach would be at least Low Multi or Multi+.
As a rule of thumb going forward, I would suggest using a translator rather than using the VIZ translation, or better yet use both, since you can distinguish the differences and use logic to deduce which one is the more believable. I want to debate this, since I know both verses well and know illogical arguments and lack of evidence when I see it.
For 5 kubo recently confirmed canon hell is a completely different structure from the movie hell
@@alswisha8519Ok, noted. I'm pretty sure that Hell is still a multiverse is it not?
Edit: The hell I was talking about was a multiverse
@@bootlegspinjutsu9966 yeah the movie for sure
1. I addressed why Hueco Mundo is not infinite in the video and even if I didn’t, I already said I am not using novel content regardless
2. An assumption on your part, but this explanation would make sense if she did it in chapter 1 and not chapter 46 after Ichigo has already been a substitute soul reaper for quite some time and she gives him a full lore dump on the eradication of the Quincys and explains how their killing of hollows would’ve led to the soul society and world of the living spilling into each other, aka, the collapse of the universe, since the collection of the realms is described as the universe
3. I already addressed why the valley of screams is not infinite in the video and I also addressed the translation where ganryu’s voice actor does not mutter the phrase “Mugen”, infinite in Japanese, once. I never said Memories of nobody isn’t canon and legit used it to compare to hellverse as what is canon and isn’t, there is no scan where the soul society is described with “Uchu” in the manga
4. An assumption on your part, I am aware the manga has mistrans moments as I state in the video for both Naruto and bleach, however even discarding Gremmys statement, there is the way Kubo draws it happening as I pointed out in the video and still the novel scan saying he “materialized outer space itself within the seireitei, as well as the fact it takes 2 of him to make an at best multi continental meteor, I have no reason to distrust the statement gremmy makes
5. That scan is for hell in the hellverse movie, which as the comment replying to you stated earlier, is not the same hell from in the manga, and even if it was, the movie is very blatantly not canon
6. I explained why it is hyperbolic in the video and there is nothing else to suggest Ichigo is higher dimensional in the entire series, even True Shikai Ichigo who is stronger than Mugetsu, and being transcendent is just a state or form and doesn’t mean you’re higher dimensional, Yhwach is stronger than aizen yet he can still be sensed by fodders and yes, having a higher dimensional existence than someone else means they cannot sense you or even comprehend your existence, aizen can see Ichigo just fine and it’s the difference in their power that has him freaking out. You also can’t prove Ichigo is “lowering his dimensional existence” and such a thing is never demonstrated in bleach. Kubo is also a very poetic man so using this poetic figurative language is not out of the ordinary
7. I explained why the Lille Barro statement is hyperbolic in the video, he literally gets dodged several times by an injured Shunsui even while in vollstandig, so it does not “ignore the concept of dodging”. The sternritter also exaggerate their abilities or power pretty often, like the numerous statements of one of them saying they’re the strongest when there’s no way they could be
This didn’t rebunk a single thing imo and it makes no sense to go questioning every single translation I read, especially when most of these things the characters say are instantly contradicted on the page after they say it.
@@alswisha8519To be fair, we don't know much about the manga hell. We do know the Soul King controls it, so Yhwach still has the power to affect hell. There's also the other Soul Societies from Burn the Witch, but for continuity sake and for relevance, I'm going to ignore that one, since BTW is somewhat a contreversal thing in scaling Bleach, especially since Bleach made no point to show that the verses are truly connected.
Its obvious who he likes more and wat he actually pays attention to😂 missing hella key points for ichigo
I personally still have no idea who would win, but I hate the fact that he completely write off Ichigo's Bankai ability simply because Naruto changed his fate of him and Sasuke always killing each other in past reincarnation.
@@Shootingfoullet me be the one to tell you: ichigo absolutely stomps
@@Stanzbey69 with what feats
@@xlightcooper7543 he smashed what is essentially a black hole with his bare hands in his 4th strongest form
@@Stanzbey69 so what?
I’ve never seen a harder naruto glazer
Kurosaki + Messi
I literally could NOT stop laughing while watching this 😂 every ichigo point he brought up was sum of the dumbest low balls ive ever seen to the point where i kept watching the video to hear more ridiculous takes for kicks and giggles
They weren't lowballs at all, the video is fine
@@DeAngeloJohnson-ee9bt bro he lowballed the fuck out of bleach and high balled tf out of naruto. Naruto cannot beat any of the the people Ichigo has. But ichigo very easily beats all of narutos opponents.n Its not even close
@@basil_uwu8541 explain
@@DeAngeloJohnson-ee9bt Naruto peaked at sage of 6 paths mode. Baryon mode is shit. It's only good for ishhiki any other enemy can just stall out baryon mode. Ichigo alone is faster stronger and just plain better in horn of salvation. Naruto literally just evaporats in his spiritual pressure. And if we ignore that the grand ray cero getsuga tenshou literally one shots the verse let alone Naruto. Comparing these two verses just isn't fair. Naruto gets shit on without even trying
@@basil_uwu8541 let's not forget baryon mode is a copy pasta of Mugetsu xD hilarious people think naruto could put a decent fight against ichigo
Nothing in the Hueco Mundo poem contradicts what’s already in the manga. In the note you showed about how a large portion of it is a desert, it also described it as "Endless" and a large portion of it being a desert doesn’t mean its not infinite, some infinities are actually larger than others. The soul society should be a high end multi solar system sized realm if you take into account the stars themselves and the distances between them, making the WOTL also high end multi solar system sized. Kubo wanted his name removed because he felt that he didn’t do enough to warrant the title, he doesn’t hate the movie. In you’re speed section you said that "spiritual light" isn’t the same as actual light but I could say that Grammys meteor isn’t a regular meteor, so why is spiritual light not light but the meteor is a regular meteor? Authors intent is a good way of determining if something is hyperbolic, The data book statement about Ichigos Bankai describes it as "like lightning" and "godlike" this doesn’t contradict what’s actually happening in cannon at the moment since Ichigo could speed blitz Byakuya, who is compatible to Yoruichi, who is faster than Soi Fon who is referred to as the "fastest shinigami" so Ichigo would be one of the top tiers in terms of speed at that time in the series. Using Occam’s razor and authors intent, we can conclude that the sokyoku can destroy the soul society, you didn’t actually refute the argument about the blue sky. The Mullen statement can be a bit confusing but this is where the idea of authors intent can help, in the manga it’s stated to be "Almost infinite" and also "Infinite" in the Data book it’s stated to trick you into thinking its currently expanding into infinity" and in the anime it’s just "Infinite" so its most likely infinite. If Mukden was always infinite but was tricking you into thinking its getting bigger would that be a contradiction? I don’t think so.
a lot of good content here
I disagree with this I think ichigo wins respectfully
But why’d you say horn of salvation bankai ichigo when we don’t know what it does
We have an idea but we really don’t know what his bankai really does
Yes we do. It just makes him stronger and faster than his shikai. When he went false Bankai for the first time was his Bankai really all that different from his shikai? No It literally just made him faster and stronger and his getsuga tensho was red and black instead of blue that’s it.
@@yatsuto6088 duh we know it makes you stronger and faster we don’t know the specific abilities and how they work because yhwach broke his zanpaktou when ichigo went true bankai mode for the first time
@@saadsahi3741 You’re overthinking it, Yhwach broke his bankai because ichigo was strong enough to actually kill him, all it took was one slice and yhwach was done. Ichigo most likely still has the same abilities like in his shikai but just way stronger.
@@yatsuto6088 he most likely has like an broken ability for his bankai but I guess we can’t say anything about his bankai off of pure speculation I think his bankai is prob fate manipulation but we will never know unless we get anime only info or if the hell arc continues
@@yatsuto6088 it has been hinted at that his bankai is able to shatter fate
Buddy getting cooked in the comments under his own video 💀😂
Bro is missing key scaling for ichigo like his ability to change the future with hope and scaling to yhwach and btw yhwach also has a universal argument thats pretty obvious major downplay for ichigo
That is absolute head canon
Ichigo glazing is wild? Naruto solos the verse negative diff 😂
@@NoU-pf8fcwhat in the dickride
compare two beings
Naruto: Planetary Level
ichigo: multiversal level
I wonder who will win, it's too difficult!!!😜
A real nail biter here
Ong bro finally someone gets it
Debunk the vid then
@@enquixLr Ichigo would literally kill Naruto just by his presence what are you even saying ?
@@Archaoen0 Lmao Ichigo can't soul crush people who are relative or stronger than him.
Ichigo easily.
Naruto has absolutely no resistance against soul destruction(quincy power) or soul cleansing(zanpakuto base ability) and wouldnt even be able to see ichigo.
The fact orochimaru couldnt see the shinigami with the reaper death seal shows people cant see spiritual beings without special circumstances.
Sasuke was able to see momoshiki interact with boruto on a mental plane .
Ichigo one shot a being that was just moments earlier destroying three worlds (universal+ sized constructs) simultaneously. Naruto is inpressive but even his baryon mode worked only because of the connection between all chakra causing their sacirifical gamble weakning isshikis life force big time. Baryon mode wouldn't work on ichigo who has no chakra but naruto does have a soul and ichigo can easily remove it.
Ichigo has broken through dimensions just by going fb bankai (much stronger now) naruto held a dimensional rift from closing for about a second but couldnt open it and as far a i remember naruto has never broken dimensional barriers.
mf said he'll not be biased and then went on the most biased yap session i've ever heard
I have two major qualms with this:
1. Ichigo's DP was downplayed. All of your logic was airtight and correct, however, at the very conclusion you simply referred to it as "at least planetary" and continued to use that as the benchmark, despite already scaling him using the feat of one shotting Soul King Yhwach, a Tri-Solar threat, to scale him. Ichigo's power output is tri-solar without even using rhe Horn of Salvation or Getsuga Gran Rey Cero.
2. Kakashi's light speed in OG is an exaggeration. Kid Kakashi was able to react to and attack lightning, ONLY when momentarily amped by Raikiri. That is not his base. The data books are inconsistent at best for basically all series. I prefer to only use interpretations directly from the manga. The claim that Itachi's water bullets were light speed and thus base Sharingan Kakashi is light speed in OG just does not mesh with the rest of the verse at the time. Kakashi himself, even by the Pain arc, does not believe himself to be stronger than Jiraiya, who is relative with Orochimaru, Tsunade, and old Hiruzen. None of which have gone on to show light speed feats at any point in the series, even up to Shippuden. Quite simply, Naruto reaches lightning speed when he evades rhe Raikage with KCM, light speed when he avoids Juubidara's light fang with Six Paths Sage Mode, and faster than light in his fight with Kaguya.
3. Shadow clones are not equivalent to your power in base. They aren't power multipliers. That's what's meant to set Limbo apart from all other clones. The reason Naruto is always shown to be relative to his own clowns is because they have been consistently stated to divide your chakra equally. The only reason that making so many Shadow Clones is an effective strategy for Naruto is that he has enough Chakra for an individual clone to still be relevant and he has hax abilities like the Rasenshuriken that each one can use on its own regardless of Chakra.
And as a final note, Naruto's abilities are not much better than Ichigo's. He only has Shadow Clones and multiple varieties of Rasengan (this includes the Rasenshuriken). Ichigo may just have the Getsuga, but he's been shown to use it incredibly versitaly as well as infuse other power into it like the Getsuga Gran Rey and Getsuga Jujisho. It's just about as useful an ability as the Rasengan. They both have numerous forms that mostly just boost their overall stats. And Naruto just has Shadow Clones up on Ichigo, however, as I pointed out before, Ichigo is far faster and Shadow Clones are all divided in strength. Ichigo still wins.
His logic was garbage. Every "bad Bleach take" he debunked was inconsisent, and his refusal to use the light novels when he used the scans is hypocritical, if we use your logic and say that you only use the manga statements. Him talking about the Gargantia was what sent me over the edge, since it's a major part of the cosmology, as in, it's basically the whole thing.
I also gave a numerity of points debunking his other statements which were quid pro quo without any further research or critical thinking. The inconsistency in the scaling and the massive lack of evidence makes the claims incorrect. The quid pro quo in his statements were also inconsistent, sometimes it happens, which is clear bias, and when it shouldn't, it's almost convenient.
As for me personally. I like to use all of the canon content and descriptions and compare them to finalize a true assessment by eliminating hyperboles, inconsistency errors, and/or mistranslations.
@@bootlegspinjutsu9966 Honestly man after looking through all of the comments, you are so great at debunking all of his ridiculous points. Like HOW ARE YOU SO GOOD AT IT? Love the work you're doing!
@@astroverse1Aw shucks 😅
All he’s done is double down on his points without addressing any of the counter arguments I make, hence why I stopped replying, but I guess that might be enough for you💀
@@DiegosBloodsprayYour counter arguments are useless. You are quid pro quo the debater. YOU doubled down and failed to debunk my arguments. I provided proof and even debunked the credibility of the WHOLE video. Miss me with that
Honest to god man, this is the most streigh forward video about this. Amazing video man!
On your speed arguments:
Bleach:
1) Yamamoto never said the light was tangible. He said they were in another world. You put the page up as you spoke about it . . . They literally became intangible as soon as the light touched them. You also misrepresented what happened with Hisagi. The manga clearly shows the light coming out and then him reacting to it, not reacting to Soi Fon and Yoruichi. It only happens close in the anime, which takes a lot of liberties that create inconsistencies. Rangiku just moves her hand.It's definitely not like a cero because it doesn't hurt anyone, just puts them in the Garganta.
2) You do have ways to interpret how speed works in manga: through what you're shown and what you're told. The panel arrangement shows the hole is already in the wall when Aaroniero sees it and then he moves. When he doesn't move in time his face is exposed.
3) Your Nanao statements validate the first two feats you tried to discredit. All characters mentioned scale higher than her.
Naruto:
1) Kakashi's fatigue is not a factor. Raikiri amps his speed to the point that he cannot safely react to his opponents until he gets Sharingan, which gives a type of precognition when it comes to movement. This means that his movement exceeded his perception and combat speed.
2) Holding back doesn't mean that movements are slower (in the case of Itachi and Haku). It can mean a variety of things. He could be leaving openings, not striking with lethal force, choosing jutsu that can be countered, etc. Holding back is always a weak argument because it's impossible to quantify.
3) If you go only by what is shown and not extra material and character conjecture like you did with Bleach, Naruto characters don't get as high in speed or strength as you assume. Zaelleaz has a set of videos where he only goes through feats if you're interested. The last vid also dropped 5 months ago.
I noticed you gave a lot of pushback on Bleach feats and lore but not much to Naruto. You basically assumed every statement was hyperbolic except universe, which is a vague term when not used by actual scientists. That's a big trend with these types of videos. Hoping you've looked at your sources since posting this and found some less biased logic.
This right here is correct
Also i think the video didn't mention that Ichigo's reiatsu, prior to TYBW, always fluctuates. Ulquiorra stated that Ichigo's reishi fluctuated between being weak (possibly the Quincy side) or far more powerful than his own (possibly either his hollow or soul reaper powers). Upon him regaining his powers in the Fullbring arc, rukia stated that what Ginjo absorbed was just a small percentage of Ichigo's true power.
Meaning, everything that Ichigo had up until that point was like a small puddle. Despite him having a reiatsu comparable to that of a captain or an Espada as powerful as Grimmjow, and I'm going to mid wank him to at least Nnoitra. True Bankai/Shikai Ichigo wrecked four captain class Quincies without breaking a sweat. The same Sternritter that mopped some of the captains.
agreed I think the fluctuating was from Ichigo's depression and inner turmoil at the time. Another thing is that since you can control how much spiritual pressure you have at any given moment you won't always just start soul crushing
@@mr.quirrel4982he also failed to understand that Ichigo can not soul crush due to the fact not only old man his sword was suppressing his powers but also the sole society was doing the same thing and he still was able to fight at a much higher level then some of the most strongest captains and arroncars
Narutos in the same boat. From beginning of series to end of series, Naruto was only using half of kuramas power.
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy. bad phrasing, it wasnt so much that he wasnt using half of kuramas power, it was that he only had half of kuramas power which only changed after the war.
@@Replies.Delete.Sometimes.IDKy.Naruto only had half of the nine tails until he got the other half from Minato in the 4th ninja war.
There is one thing to suggest Adult Ichigo did some training since the TYBW arc. That would be the fact he casually cut through the hell chains like butter. Meanwhile even Bankai Yamamoto couldn't (based on the fact Yamamoto in the hell verse movie said "nothing can break the chains" which would include his attacks). You could argue the lack of canon but, I feel like the chains are still important.
True shikai Ichigo in the tybw is already stronger than bankai Yamamoto
@@DiegosBloodspray I'm aware of that but, the fact he destroyed the chain so casually, is impressive. I also think that Ichigo's true Bankai can just negate hax, hence why Yhwach was afraid of it. I mean, Ichigo was beating Yhwach and if Yhwachs Almighty wasn't a factor and Ichigo got a powerup from the Bankai ontop of that, he'd have won easily.
@@matthewjutzen424 if it could negate hax would it not just negate the almighty and resist being destroyed?
@@milli_the_ashawo It doesn't negate anything. It's just an on-going theory because people still can't accept the Stillsilver Arrow's use before Ichigo sliced Yhwach with his "TRUE" Bankai.
Even tho it is implied in there storywise
You do know that Aizen himself said he lowered his own existence in KT arc when he was about to kill Ichigo’s friends
With how much you reach in this video you're going to outer space my dude
Luffy cameo
Naruto is getting pieced up with point precision accuracy my boy.
I seen Ichigo destroy a dimension by simply going into Bankai there is no Naruto vs Ichigo debate it’s a wash
Heck Ichigo from the end of soul society arc is already planetary since he blocked the sokyoku and destroyed its podest
btw yukio dimensions contain moons and stars in them 😭
That dimension showed only karakura Town in it mate. To think is anything above town level is wank and baseless assumption
@@marcoslightspeed5517Nobody in Naruto has ever destroyed a Dimension before and Yukio can literally control Time in his Dimensions
@@marcoslightspeed5517Gremmy created space with stars and galaxy’s n Kenny cut through it to Aizen created a black hole and Ichigo destroyed it too
Good stuff!!
Nice video!❤
Bro is yapping about nothing, don’t cook again
This man has a whole section adressing "bad" Bleach arguments but where is the bad arguments for Naruto?
Spent a whole section downplaying Ichigo just to wank Naruto
Don't use work wank if you don't know extent because wank could even reach to m+
He did address “bad” arguments for Naruto. Did you watch the video?
@@onesmart229he barely addressed anything at all while he has a clearly long section of what Bleach does wrong
@@kaimobley5324 he addressed the main points. What are some things you believe are misconceptions that you feel should have been addressed?
@@onesmart229 Naruto seeing Ichigo for one, how the souls are being seen and interacted with in Naruto and how that would transfer over to the Bleach canon, Kaguya creating dimensions, Naruto being solar system level, Cero's not being light attacks themselves when Hollows have abilities themselves stated to be light but then says "real world light is intangible" when yes that's true however the Spiritual Beings in Bleach clearly don't follow "real word logic and laws" to the T and show breaking them effortlessly early in the series. Then we have to remember that even tho they are what they are they still have their own specific traits in how they interact. In addition to the fact Ishida in the Soul Society Arc before Ichigo got Bankai blitzed a lieutenant so fast that his own shadow was still in place in the spot as opposed to where he moved to, that by itself legitimately is a faster than light feat and Ichigo in Bankai during his fight with Byakuya scales faster than Ishida just like Byakuya does. But then saying that in Naruto bcus Itachi's water bullet was "light speed" in the data books and Kakashi reacting to it means that Kakashi is light speed during part one Naruto but yet 8 Gate's Guy who is beyond faster than that specific Kakashi isn't light speed at all when fighting Madara and can easily be seen and be reacted to by characters who 1) Don't have a Sharingan/Sage Mode/Sensory Abilities and 2) don't scale to Guy in that state or even close to it aka Rock Lee being able to throw a Marked Kunai just in time before Guy was hit by Madara's Truth Seeking Orbs. Are we to believe that same 6 Gate's Lee is able to throw ergo move FTL as well and if so why doesn't that same Lee scale to character's in the Akatsuki whose speed is far slower but can still tag him like Hidan. Like where's the consistency here.
Mainly overall constantly saying "In my Opinion" through the whole video. If your going to say "this thing is a fact or scales to this range" you can't constantly say "in my opinion" bcus then your whole argument is very questionable and inconsistent
I have never seen someone investing time in this topic and still be wrong about so many things lmfao
Great video man! Also would love to see another Anime vs TV Series character like your L vs Walter White. Maybe, L vs Sherlock holmes? Anyways, keep up the great work!
I like how 80% of the comments on this video are full on essays explaining how this guy was deepthroating Naruto with the utmost sensuality and lowballing Ichigo to an ungodly degree even going as far as using mistranslations and completely ignoring parts of the bleach universe such as the novels, like that is crazy, like that is an aboslutely insane feat to get shit on by that many people for having just the most atrocious takes.
What mistrans did I use????
@@DiegosBloodsprayYou didn't use enough translations. And did you see the comment, you forgot the LNs. You are literally missing everything to make any point of yours valid.
People writing long comments where they use mistranslated and contradictory Bleach Novels doesn’t mean anything.
happily using data books its insane
@@onesmart229"Mistranslated"? "Contradictory?" These novels are canon evidence and scaling in areas where they are needed. You are supposed to use all of the evidence you have and discern the consistent scale. For example, if SAFWY says that the Soul Society is a universe, which it is, and nothing else scales the Soul Society properly, then it should be scaled as a universe. All of the novels are properly and officially translated, but you also need to translate them yourself to match the consistency. That's how you truly powerscale anime characters.
So a man surrounded by lightning is faster than light but a spiritual beam of light is not light speed?
What kind of downplay is this?
So one series actually uses the term light speed to confirm the speed of various characters and abilities while the other series does not.
The most idiotic kind. He said himself in multiple comment sections he's responded to that he's not using the Novels for Bleach. Off rip cutting down the true power it brings down to half
@@kaimobley5324 he didn’t use the novels for either series.
@@onesmart229 But most of the Bleach lore comes from the novels.
If he doesn't use them, this really isn't a vs battle
@@rayqwonjackson3474 if he uses the novels from one series then he has to do it for both. The most important parts for the scaling are still in the manga.
Had a whole segment titled why Ichigo’s power is exaggerated. Already knew where it was going
Why does everyone misinterpret the truthseeking orbs to be "spiritual" and "durability negating" ? The manga was explicit in saying that it "nullifies ninjutsu" which subsequently nullified any regeneration that could be utilized FROM ninjutsu. It is not durability negating and is not spiritual because it harmed edo tensei reanimated bodies. It only nullifies ninjutsu.
Read the manga
It literally destroyed Minato's soul. Dude.
I think this was really well done. I don't fully agree on some things the vid was very well researched imo.
This shot is not well done at all he Downplayed the hell out of Ichigo and then highballed Naruto so much
@@Chillchildren999 I agree tbh looking back
I think you have read this enough (Looking at how filled the comments are and the dislike ratio), but your bleach scaling is way too skeptical to the point of downplaying.
Bro you cooked fr 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
In Tybw Senjumaru said the slightest spiritual pressure of her Bankai can make the Heavens and Earth of the Three Realms trembles, In Japanese Heaven and Earth refers to the universe itself meaning that when unsealed everyone in the Zero Division is at least Uni+ to low Multiversal, Yhwatch even considers Ichigo and Aizen to be a bigger threat than Senjumaru
Ok this is why i dont take power scalers seriously. If anyone says naruto is stronger or that naruto wins against ichigo shows ignorance and that you didnt read bleach. Ichigo destroys naruto with all his last powers
Never make a video again‼️‼️🗣️🗣️🔥
While i agree not to use the "adult" forms of each character, the only thing i'll say is in an interview/q&a with kubo on kluboutside (its like kubos own little spot where he can share drawings and ask questions regarding bleach) but when someone asked Kubo about adult Ichigo's zanpakuto and why it looked like his old shikai instead of his dual swords, Kubo mentioned something along the lines of that ichigo has gained a mastery over his own sword to the point where he can split/fuse his sword sort of at will? and that his larger sword almost acts like a scabbard/sheathe for his smaller sword.
And while all captain level shinigami/soul reapers need to be able to manipulate the size of their swords as stated by Isshin, this takes it to a whole different level, which to me suggests that he's gained a certain mastery over his own powers since his fight with Yhwach.
Now after watching I do have to admit that Naruto seemingly has a lot more hax than Ichigo and might be "stronger" in terms of attack potency, i'm a bit iffy on the speed thing given how fast Ichigo returned to the soul society after training with the Zero Division, managing the trip in days (or at least a day or two) rather than weeks. Ichigo might be a "spiritual" entity in his soul reaper form, however given hollows are also spiritual creatures and the fact that quincies and fullbringers can interact with said spiritual creatures I can't see Naruto's truth seeking orbs doing any more damage to ichigo than a cero, cut from a zanpakuto or a quincy arrow. I think at the end of the day, Ichigo is more durable and has...whats the word to use, multiversal maybe? dimensional? capabilities given his potential candidacy for a soul-king replacement and how he managed to take down (a weakened) Yhwach who felt threatened by him moments earlier.
All in all i think an Ichigo vs Naruto fight would be extremely close and would push both characters to new heights regardless of who would win
And how has ichigo not gotten stronger in his adult form, he literally broke the chains of Hell in his sealed shikai base form.
You are confused dude.
It's also stated that Ichigo mastered his Quincy and Hollow abilites. Do you know what that implies? Ichigo can fire Quincy arrows, shoot Gran Rey Ceros like they're Cero Matrelletas, use Blut, Hiero, Hirenkyaku, Sonido, Quincy spells, A Quincy Blade, etc. Ichigo has gotten WAY stronger and has much more abilities as an Adult
@@bootlegspinjutsu9966 I wonder if Ichigo would be shown using Vollständig, cause we know his Resurrección is associated with his HOS .
And ichigo was just experimenting with his powers in the whole battle with Yhwach. There are so much potential to ichigo's power.
Hopefully Kubo will showcase ichigo's power in the upcoming Hell arc and since no one is rushing him this time we know he is cooking good.
@@bootlegspinjutsu9966how do you know he mastered his quincy and hollow powers was it stated in cfyow
@@number1927It was stated by Byakuya that it takes 10 years to Master Bankai and Hell arc takes place 12 years after Tybw that’s plenty of Time for Ichigo to Master it
@@Excaliber682his resurrection is the horn of salvation well it heavily implied to be
Bruh even the worst of the worst debunks puts ichigo at multi star level 😂😂😂he is easily neg diffs naruto and not to mention bro got ratioed so bad😂😂😂its okay midruto fangay we get what you were trying to tell....and dont come at me saying bleach fanboy or anything i like both of the anime and manga and as a neutral standpoint without anything bias ichigo bodies naruto no diff at max
Oof, the pin of shame for speaking fax. What a world
@@bootlegspinjutsu9966 bruh pin of fax🗿
@@dumbnoob779🍷🗿
Naruto already beat ichigo in deathbattle and in this video
@@jameswilliams6008This video and DeathBattle are biased af
When did Naruto ever destroy five layers of hell?’,.
It’s literally stated in the cyow novel that gremmy created outer space. And just because it say he “materialized outer space itself” dose not necessarily mean his being something that already existed to somewhere especially in this context as it’s hyping up his abilities
Also kinda weird that you try to make it seem like Aizen is lying about everything about the soykoko when both the databook and so foi back up the notice of it atleast having the power of one million zanpakto at base. Implying that Aizen is simply just lying about the use of the soykgo rather then its actually power
For least. Naruto is Solar at His Full Power, which is six paths. Ichigo in the Fullbring Arc(which is weaker than Dangai Ichigo) is Low Multi in Bankai, Dangai/Base Ichigo is Low Comp at LEAST(Scales above Soul King and Squad 0, with the latter being High Multi already), and at Full Power is High Complex Multi at least. Coupled with the fact that Ichigo is 5d(vs. Naruto being 3d, meaning he can't sense Ichigo), and that TSO would do nothing to him. I can't see how Naruto wins. SAWFY also stated if im remember correctly , Kenpachi = Fb Arc Ichigo, making Kenpachi low multi, along with the fact that Gremmy actually made GALAXIES fighting Kenpachi.
"No hate, all he does is slash his sword and yell getsuga tenshou" Definitly hate coz that aint true... In most of the fights there is quality swordsmanship. you make it clear you havent watched or read the series. And I could say the same about Naruto, all he does is spam shadow clone jutsu and rasengan with no strategies
Bro i am not a hater but i have say that he has more power scaling knowledge than you or me . Idk about the outcome but the way he explained it and did a such a fantastic job but only to declare Naruto the winner but you bleach fans just can't accept the outcome and come up with anything ( by anything i mean like ichigo is multiverse etc ) . If you outcome were to reverse then you bleach fans would have just straight up worshipped . Idk who wins but the amount of hate you guys are giving is unreal
@@iam_pain10He's missing piles of evidence and he scales using fallacies. He failed to proof dog piss and even can't debate to save his life in the comments
I mean that literally all ichigo ever does. From start to finish all I’ve heard ichigo say is getsuga tensho, Yh he has ceros but he hardly uses them as much. I don’t know what you guys be reading or watching but it’s definitely not bleach.
@@The_endlessV1Naruto using Shadow clones and Rasengans doesn't make him any more better.
wrong naruto has used rasenshuriken so many times and he even perfected it so much that he can amplify it with all the elements. as soon as naruto learnt sage mode he would spam rasenshurikens because of context. then not only that but as soon as he learnt the tailed beast bomb he spammed that as well and used it so much he learnt how to compress it and change its shape. i dont know what you be wathcing but its not naruto. go and watch actual naruto fool.@@AlbertEinstein-ch7vl
Now since we know how specific english words have been interpreted in sentences in Bleach.
Lets looks up how the Japanese words are interpreted in their sentences.
Every time Sekai has been used in Bleach its used in the context to mean Universe unlike Naruto.
And that's just in the context of the Japanese translation and not its English counter part.
You don't believe me well..
Learn Japanese, or search up a Japanese CZcamsr power scaler and ask them.
What are you saying? There's no context suggesting it means universal. In both Naruto and Bleach they say sekai referring to spaces of entirely different continuum that hold stars and systems.
@@kakuzugoated873 Yeah, sekai when translated to English can mean World/ Universe/Society.
In Japanese depending on the context of the sentence it's easier to distinguish what it really means and in most cases Sekai has been used to describe a Universe in Bleach on contrary to Naruto.
@@kakuzugoated873 To make it clear:
In the CFYOW light novels, it is confirmed that the three realms! make up the universe in Bleach. They even refer to them as "sangai (E) in the original Japanese version of the CFYOW light novels. And according to Jisho, which is recommended as one of the best English to Japanese dictionaries on the internet, defines "sangai (E) as "the three realms of existence" In Buddhism, as well as "the whole universe (of a billion worlds) that Buddha enlightened." Which lends credence to the argument of Bleach's cosmology being identical to Buddhist cosmology. And it was stated multiple times that Yhwach was straight up going to destroy those three realms, not the boundary. Which is why "sekai" has been translated to "universe" in official translations for Bleach
and not Naruto.
@@Excaliber682SAFWY also used "uchu" in it's description of the Soul Society, so the SS is cannonically a universe. Therefore making the WOTL and Hueco Mundo universes
@@kakuzugoated873 Where did you get your info from?
final coffin in this video, dude said: "i don't care about the garganta because is not relevant TO MY SCALING here" yeah sounds shaddy and poor researched.
I don’t care about the size of the garganta bc no one in the manga destroys the garganta or threatens to, the only person who says the garganta is gonna be destroyed is ganju who is an idiot, Yhwach and Askin only say he plans to destroy the three realms, meaning only the three realms are relevant to Yhwach’s scaling
@@DiegosBloodsprayYhwach covered the Gargantia in shadows. Tf you mean about it's inaccurate to his scaling?
@@DiegosBloodspray Ganju is a decendent of the five noble houses and Ganju been an idiot is irrelevant when his info came from his sister who gave him the map and is more smarter than him. Second point, in the novels Yhwach is stated he is going to undo his father's work by destroying the boundry that holds all the worlds together. The Boundray been the garganta itself. By doing that he will them merge everything together with his quincy matter manipulation skills that he used to built the castle and the shadow dimension but on a universal scale.
MOST accurate naruto vs ichigo video fr
More like the most Bs
How do you feel about you claim now ??
Simple argument, The world of the living is just the same as our world. Does that mean they are speaking about just Earth? or does it mean our entire universe? I like to think it's the universe, 1 given if the Soul Society is parallel and equal, it has to contain all the souls that ever died through out all time, gonna need a fairly large space for that. Second point, if you still don't believe that, then the Bleach Universe is all the realms combined and they are not separate universes, fine, Yhwach is stated to destroy all the realms and recreate them, so he is just inherently universal after absorbing the soul king. There is no arguing this unless you agree with the former. Ichigo scales directly to Yhwach making him relativistic to Universal at a bare minimum, that is the low ball. Next argument. Ichigo is a Shinigami, they exist in Naruto, Ichigo is the equivalent to the God of Death you mentioned. They have never been fought against or harmed in the entire Series of Naruto, only the summoner, if you take that into consideration, why is that? Could it be because there is nothing they can do against them. Yes spiritual based attacks are used, but only against physical bodies with a soul, so does it even work on a soul? I assume no, or else people would probably just fight the Reaper while the summoner was rendered useless and stop themselves from dying. If you draw a few conclusions from Naruto itself you will find that no one in the Naruto verse could do anything at all to spiritual based entities in the Bleach verse. Just my head cannon though, could never truly know the answer to the second argument posed, without asking both creators what they thought.
Additional note, honestly the guy who probably knows the most about Naruto as a series and verse just blatantly saying that the Bleach Verse scales higher then the Naruto Verse czcams.com/users/shortsiyk3j2gskcY?si=2aXBD7WB6SfmcOYm
your just a naruto fan boy but well see how much more powerful ichigo gets in the hell arc
Good job with the video. Learnt a lot.
I think we can compare without going to the soul crush win con. I agree that as for the state of the series, it may seem naruto has more to him at his peak than Ichigo has at end of the current Manga. I could argue, but for now one could agree Naruto wins high diff. But Ichigo is far from full potential yet unlike Naruto so it can only go to Ichigo favor moving forward even if just by raw power without hax or special techniques
the bias is crazy lol.
So much assumptions is being made in this video with bleach. of well it might not be his power breaking out but his higher power negating it.... Like waht that's not how that works. You can negate spiritual based effects if you have higher not raw negate abilities like yuki creating a realm. if that was the case all of the captains could have broken out with increase reatsu without fighting or break others out from the outisde with an increase in reatsu
Yo.
Nice video.
Anyway who would win Sasuke vs. Aizen? I saw this debate on twt with a lot of people saying that Sasuke wins... In your opinion who wins?
quite simple. Aizen wins. not just cuz of kyoka suigetsu but his iq, speed, strenght, senses and abilities, with his proficiency with kido, and with his immense spiritual pressure. And let alone the Aizen who already merged with hogyoku, with the sailormoonlike butterfly form. Even the lieutenant Aizen slams sasuke so hard it's not even funny.
lol aizen is quite literally immortal he cant die that fight is a stomping fest hell his shikai alone is a problem let alone his Iq Insane spiritual pressure mastery of every kido sasuke wont stand a chance in hell
You know you are right When there are people crying in the comments
Not even a fair fight 😂
I mean Mr hokagay win
But in His dreams
Wake up to reality
Ichigo using max powerful rasengan meanwhile ichigo what this fly is doing , ichigo slaps naruto naruto dies 😂
Naruto stomps negg difficulty
Result - mr hokagay died due to spiritual pressure of ichigo
So I read the shunsui vs Lille fight a lot cuz I love it to me it never seems like when Lille shot at shunsui that shunsui dodged them the one time he did as in the manga panel u showed lille had no idea exactly where shunsui was and fired in his general direction hoping that it would draw him out from hiding that’s what I think happened and I believe it’s plausible since every other time lille shot shunsui it was dead on and he couldn’t react lille schrift does exactly what he says it does read the chapter again it’s clear lille doesn’t know exactly where shunsui is within that building and fires to destroy the building drawing shunsui out shunsui didn’t dodge his atks he reacted because lille more or less found where he was hiding and took evasive action
Nope, Shunsui literally dodged Lille's trumpete before it hit him and Nanao reacted to his light also.
@@pacmiller7564 nanao sword draws in his light and reflects it I will say it impressive on her part since she has to at least brace herself but Lille straight didn’t know exactly where he is in that building and we know Lille ability takes effect to what’s in his line of sight but I did here from someone that they think shunsui just felt the fluctuation in Lille spiritual pressure and new an atk was imminent and dodge in a random direction in other words he got lucky with a little skill and intuition involved
@@alizewalker2712 Why do you keep mentioning a building?? I'm talking about Lille's trumpete. Lille was looking right at shunsui during that attack and shunsui dodged it. Fluctuations of Lille's spiritual pressure?? Or he saw and dodged it like it's really that simple we don't have to make up headcannon.
Dang. Right & wrong I don't know why people getting press over this.
Great video, bro.
no hate but what in the context says that when ywach was going to reshape the 3 realms its referring to the " planets " also didnt u claim and prove that the soul society and world of living have stars?
I don't know why people still get this confused with bleach realms. Yes world of the living is a realm where the earth resides and all of its cosmology and ss is parallel to wotl and along with hueco mundo all these realms are inside the infinite pitch black garganta and these realms are connected with dangai so yes yhwach was going to affect everything in bleach to create the original primordial universe.
How are bleach wankers calling this man biased? Did they forget that this man blatantly said he likes ichigo more than Naruto. 😂
The haters will say it’s fake
@@DiegosBloodspray fr 😭. W vid & I love seeing bleach fans mad 😂
@@dingoflex9338 yet he ignored and downplayed a lot of Ichigo’s feats and scales
nice i like that you went in depth for both characters and when info there full moveset
he didn't go in depth with there moveset at all he just ended it say ichigo only usen getsuga tenshou then ended
He didn’t he Downplayed Ichigo’s feats and Abilities and Highballed Naruto’s so much
A thought I had: Ichigo would technically have a decent counter against Naruto's rasenshuriken. After getting his fullbring shikai form Ichigo casually cuts the literal sky above him in half clearing it of clouds and rain meaning his getsuga is capable of easily cutting through air and weather itself, and the rasenshuriken is at its base a wind style ninjutsu making its composition be air which Ichigo could just cut through with a more condensed getsuga.
Not to mention blut vene
Destroying the realms and merging the realms are the same thing in the bleach cosmology merging the realms would cause both of them to break down and no longer exist as realms and Yhwachs goal was to break everything down back to the base state of the universe and then reshape it with him as the center like what the royal families did with reio and Yhwach later
The disrespect are real on bleach 🤡
Just fullbringer bankai ichigo is more than enough for sage mode + truth seeking mode Naruto 😂😂😂
Thanks to his Fullbring Rasengan and Truth Seeker orbs should have zero effect on Ichigo
@@Chillchildren999 yups 👍
Ayyy glad to see bro doing good on yt
you should remove the "the honest outcome" part in your video tittle, its a bit missleading
Dued You didn’t mention how Ichigo leaned to use his Sensory powers in depth in the Lost Agent arc and He was taught by Ginjo how to Manipulate the Souls inside of Matter literally those abilities would give him an edge against almost all of Naruto’s attacks especially his Shadow clones, Rasenshuiriken and Tailed Beast bombs
Bleach downplay and naruto highball, classic
Can you tell me how I highballed Naruto
@@DiegosBloodsprayan obvious one is saying kid kakashi is even close to light speed. Made me laugh though so good one
@spencerdunn5604 I didn’t say that so I dunno what you’re talking about
@@DiegosBloodspraymy bad not kid but og naruto kakashi. Either way he isnt light speed atp
@@spencerdunn5604Kakashi litteraly blocked an attack that was lightspeed lmaooo. Even if he wasn't LS in pt1, he definitely was by the war arc.
Both Migh Guy & rock Lee in base were reacting to Haku who's forced to be bloodlusted. Also Might Guy in base is keeping up with Obito who's ftl by that point. Kakashi who's a rival to Guy at the upmost 7th gate easily scales to being a lightspeed tier. And Naruto can output their level of chakra by thousands of times with kcm2 lmaoo.
It's not even a highball or anything. Kishimoto on text wrote that naruto could share thousands worth of kakashi's chakra. And then you have people like Madara who surpass that in edo, then gets an upgraded 10tails, rinnegans, God tree and a third eye AND NARUTO STILL MATCHING HIM BAR FOR BAR lmfaooo. The power cliffing between 6th paths naruto & kcm2 is insane
i will admit your vids are pretty good overall keep it up
Question: What software do you use for editing?
I used to use a free software named shotcut but I recently made the move to adobe premiere pro, specifically for the purposes of this video in fact
@@DiegosBloodspray thanks broski
16:55 I’m confused if gremmys power is to just imagine things into existence wouldn’t that just mean that he can’t imagine himself summoning a meteorite without 6 of him? Rather then that being the limit to his power and abilities… That just seems more like of an lack of intelligence then anything.
Like for example how you pointed out that he imagined himself surviving a meteorite that no one else probably would have. Could he not just imagine himself doing things he supposedly can’t do?
Gremmy is a very strangely written character, his ability is really broken but he is an idiot and he died an idiot, my explanation for it personally is just that his imagination has limits, which makes sense since he needs two of him to make a meteor
@@DiegosBloodsprayIt's ironic because he's the BRAIN of the Soul King, yet he's as dumb as a box of half eaten crayons
@@DiegosBloodsprayyour debunk of bleach is every easily to rebunk
Id love to see you try
@@DiegosBloodsprayI did, you failed to see
Not to mention
Naruto reacted to amaterasu in base form from sasuke after using up all his chakra from the collision of indra's arrow with tailed beast rasen shuriken and regular rasen shuriken
He didn’t that was thanks to Kurama’s chakra and Ichigo’s Spiritual pressure blocked the flames of the Sokyoku which is capable of overcoming anything in existence
@@Chillchildren999
Naruto was fast enough to sense it and also to dodge it don't forget
This is the Naruto that had been fighting war for 2 days straight and shared his chakra(kurama's chakra) with more than 10,000 shinobis twice
@@Shek-nz6wb the same 10k Shinobi forces are not even a scrub when compared to Naruto's maximum Chakra Pool. Not siding with anyone, but people often make this out to be a big deal, when really, it's not.
The itself part is emphasising that even outer space can be materialized with grimmy's power, the itself is comparing it to space that already existing. Being that it is such a crazy idea to materialize space itself. not say grimmy is creating a universe probably just a space like a pocket dimmension
if grimmy did materailize it from outside the atmosphere keeping it open why is it not casuing a vaccum how space would usally make?
@canaan_crystalwing99 kubo confirmed he materialized the outer speech which included planets and galaxies
@@silvertongue-242_99He created a Pocket Dimension
Bro really said honest outcome😂🤣
Yukio made dimensions like Kaguya and it has a moon and everything and he was able to control everything inside it so the weakest person in Bleach destroys Kaguya, Yhawch on the opposite side cannot be compared to anyone in the Big 3in terms of strength and hax he has control over all timelines and does whatever he wants In it, and every time line there will be at least one universe since he control all bleach cosmology in those Infinite time lines, and he can do whatever he wants and kill whoever he wants without moving, and even if there is someone in the Big 3 who can change his fate like ichigo, for the Quincy King. He jumps from one grain of sand to another on a beach that contains an infinite number of sand grains, all under yhawch control , what i want to say that ichigo cant even be copared to any one from naruto because he is far stronger faster and have a better hax and abilties with better stamina and iq and better endurance if you hate ichigo its okey but this is the truth he destroyed Kido considered to be a black hole (smashing time and space) with one hand, Aizen said he was a being from the fourth dimension and he couldn't feel Ichigo's power as a sign because he was from a higher dimension, he destroyed an entire dimension by just saying Bankai, he exceeded the speed of light in the first arc, he fought for three months Complete without rest, Candidate to be the King of Souls due to his high reiatsu that can cover at least an entire universe ,Received attacks from Quincy girls without a scratch If someone else was hit by those attacks he would turn to ashes, Manages to fight Yhawch That should be Enough
That’s literally what I’ve been saying
Ichigo is the most broken MC out of the big three, imagine this he got the best genes since birth and learned everything so quickly that would took some soul reaper 10 years to learn it
Compared to Goku and Naruto who would actually have to train hard to get power not to say that Ichigo never trained. But when compared to them Ichigo just built different man, Goku he is just common Saiyan not even as strong as Vegeta when they were a kid, and there is Naruto who got chakra so low that he can’t even do simple ninja techniques when he was in class (this is before he learned clone technique)
Saiyans are born with relatively equal growth rate, theres nothing to really suggest that they aren't aside from special cases like hybrids and broly. ichigo only learned bankai because of kisukes method that he used to learn his own and even then ichigo was being crushed by his own bankai. He also doesn't really "learn" anything aside from bankai and getsuga tensho and like I said bankai was due to special circumstances and getsuga tensho is a Shiba clan ability or something because ichigos dad has it aswell.
Dudue really said Naruto has low Chakra! 😂
@@Thashneem when Naruto is kid, he can’t even do simple clone techniques when we first saw him isn’t it?
| BLEACH - Bad takes and mistakes |
1. 9:02 When Unohana mentioned Muken to be "closed off" she didn't mean as if it's completely disconnected from the Soul Society, as it was never implied, said or even suggested neither in the anime, manga or light novels. Saying that it is completely disconnected from the Soul Society is just wrong.
2. 9:24 This is a slothful induction and incorrect in a mathematical sense of speaking and is another bad take, infinite means infinite; it can't mean that something is "notably vast" or "a great ammount of something", as "a great amount or something" or "notably vast" is countable and it's end is reachable and "infinite" means literally "limitless" or "endless". There are some other translations that say it's "endless" or "unending" (For Muken).
3. 10:25 Sure, let's go by this logic and then let me give you an exemple: Welt Yang from HI3rd is 12D, but other lower dimensional characters can interact, speak and even touch him. Does this mean he is not 12D? No, this is how game devs/authors make interactions between different character on different power levels and dimensional planes possible. This can also be the case with Aizen and Ichigo. Aizen is also infused with the Hogyoku, which has similar properties as a Hyperspace (a 4D construct). It transcends everything, as in Hollows, Soul Reapers, Humans and so on. (No, it doesn't transcend logic, matter, mathematics etc as they are platoonic concepts and it was never stated that the Hogyoku transcends platonically.) Hollows and Soul Reapers are 3D since they transcend Humans (which are 2D) Aizen being infused with Hogyoku, scales above them (4D)
4: 15:13 Gremmy did in fact create the outer space, this is backed by the CFYOW light novel where it's stated that Gremmy and I quote: " 'A quincy brain' that would be able to withstand the turbid waters of spiritual pressure surging like a vortex of chaotic consciousness. On top of that, the ability to INSTANTEANOUSLY create outer space, with the previous owner of that brain's konpaku long gone. That thing, which turned into a husk without life..." . In the manga, a galaxy or a star cluster can be seen and as creation feats > destruction feats, Gremmy would scale to bare minimum solar system to galaxy level. Asking is not stronger than Gremmy and him saying "Yhwach needs protection" was a hyperbole as Askin is easily scared and exagerates in the series.(He got scared by Grimmjaw. Does that make Grimmjaw stronger than Gremmy? No.)
5. 16:53 Hellverse Movie is not cannon. No Breaths From Hell is cannon. 17:05 What you have present is the fact that Kubo didn't want to be "executive director" since his ideas didn't get implemented, but not even once was it mentioned he hated the movie
6. COSMOLOGY: 20:03 Soul Society. Rukia and multiple others(e.g. Urahara) states Soul Society and WoTL to be "universes" and not Planets, and SS is also the "Mirror dimension of WoL". Soul Society contains stars just like WoL. Now the WoL and Soul Society can't exist in the same Universe. One world represents life and the other life after death of the context we understand that they are completely seperated. If they exist in the same universe that means that life and death are not separated. In addition, Garganta exists between the two and also Dangai also condradicts the fact that they are in the same universe. Also, Muken exists in Soul Society which was stated to be infinite multiple times across the anime/manga/lightnovels, making Soul Society infinite asl well.
6.1 20:23, You forgot that Hueco Mundo(HM) has an infinite ammount of spiritual matter. the case with the spiritual matter... Well... Rudobon is a being in Hueco Mundo which is capable of sucking Reishi and is capable of making endless supply of soldiers. Also the trnaslation of the Kanji used is "infinite supply". The "infinite supply" has to draw the power from an infinite source and that source is the Reishi from Hueco Mundo.
6.2 20:52 (almost only details) - This can be interpreted two ways: Firstly, it gives the watcher/reader a better understanding of the surrounding of the characters and secondly: ... Yea, I've got nothing here. Anyway, the "Large portion of HM is desert" can be debunked easily. For it to "expand" for infinite or to be infinite, we need to understand that it has to expand in a certain direction (Left, right, up, down... And so on.) So, HM can be simply a flat dimension that expand in either direction or even in all directions or a planet surrended by an eternal darkness. (I tend to believe more that HM is a flat dimension more)
6.3 21:11 The first translation is the official one, while the other is a fan translation. Again, infinite can't mean an exagerated ammount of something since that ammount has it's end is reachable and it's countable. Even with the "constant" translation, we can deduct that there is a constant flow of souls getting transported into a Valley of Screams(there are multiple valley's) and that is only one of them and it's constantly pilling up souls, this happens in an interval of time. It can be since the Primordial age (when Reio was walking freely) or recently, so yes, this can be a debunk, but very inconsistent.
6.4 22:00 Most, if not all are infinite, including Valley of Screams, it's not hyperboles nor contradicting if the Light novels and manga are read correctly and the meaning/translations are correct. Infinite 3D construct = Universal+.
7. 24:58 It's not contradictory and it's easy to understand. Destroying the main three realms and combining them. If they are destroyed, they fall on a single dimension(which is Garganta) as it was during the Primordial Age when Reio was mutilated by the 5 Royal Households and they merge into a singular one.
8. 26:12 Yhwach states that Ichigo's suppressed reiatsu is comparable to when he fought Aizen and that's in his shikai without the horn. Also, Mugetsu was only the release of the fraction of power that old man Zangetsu couldn't suppress. True Shikai Ichigo is founded on ALL of his latent power and potential. A Gran Rey Cero Getsugatenshou can be comparable with a Mugetsu.
| Naruto - Bad takes and mistakes |
1. 30:56. It refears to the planet or society. It's not baseless since it can't be universe.
2. 32:34 the statements that Kaguya creates her dimension are mistranslation. Kanji used is "Tsugu (つ-ぐ)" and "Kukan(空間)" which translates to ''Gathering and assembly of space" which imply Kaguya assembled these dimensions rather than creating them. We've never even received a time frame of this so called creation feat. It could've taken years, who knows? The context behind Kaguya's ability is not creating any dimensions because there is no actual proof for that. It's in context to her linking her dimensions with her teleportation ability hence why she can access anyone she wants. Saying she calls it "Her Dimensions" means she created them it's a slothful induction. (Exemple: I can own a house but that doesn't make me house level). Plus Kaguya was effected by the gravity in the Super Gravity dimension. It is also mentioned they at least have a star, which can mean sun to solar at best.
SPEED OF ICHIGO
1. Quilge shoots a "ray of light" or "light arrow" at Ichigo inside the Senkaimon. The arrow is able to blitz and close Soul Society gate in front of Ichigo. In the databook, it;s shown how Bleach's cosmology looks like(similar to what I explained earlier) Soul Society is the same size as our universe since its a parallel world/dimension and Material World (WoTL) is also infinite,
Material World: 495px = 46.508 billion light years
Distance: 271px = 2.54619556e10^10 light years =>( Based on other existing calcs. )
The arrow traveled 25,461,955,600 billion light years of distance in a matter of seconds. You can even see the timeframe of mere nothing when he fires the second arrow at Ichigo. Ichigo is MFTL+ I'm not even making a calc here, even do I have distance, timeframe and speed of object.
SPEED OF NARUTO
1. I do not know much about speed of Narutoverse/Borutoverse, so I won't touch this subject and I am going to believe what you said in the video.
| CONCLUSION |
There were many mistakes in this video, but even still Ichigo still negs the whole verse.
Your scaling for Ichigo was terrible. Why didn’t you bring up the dangai statement from Kisuke, literally the smartest and most credible character in the series. You know the one where he straight up states that the dangai is a hyperspace. Aizen before he reached KT Obliterated the Cleaner, this is the entity that controls and is over all space and time in the dangai making it 4d at the least as the dangai is a space-time hyperspace. This means it at the least has 4 dimensions and an add temporal dimension. The cleaner since controlling and being an existence of reason alone and has it to where the dangai is reliant on it means it would have to be 4d. Aizen glared at this entity with gin saying soul reapers can’t even comprehend it nor harm it at all. Then Aizen would have like 2-3 more transformations in his fight with Ichigo. And in mugetsu Ichigo quite literally transcends this Aizen on a higher dimension and this is reasonable as Aizen states he can’t even feel any of Ichigo’s spiritual pressure. And we know Ichigo got a crazy buff after becoming one with his two souls at that time. Aizen only survived because he is immortal and the Hogyoku saved his ass.
Also the Hueco mundo scale is also terrible, as their is an espada or former espada who creates an army of arancar soldiers using the sand from Hueco Mundo and it’s stated he can create an infinite amount of soldiers.
Without watching the video as yet, Ichigo slams
Lol that’s the problem with u bleach tards.. ya just say ichigo slams and don’t kno why 😂
@@obliteratex8966ichigo bodies the who verse this vid is basically downplaying/ext lowball bleach to try make naruto look strong
@@giodonn5172Naruto stomps trashchigo. You have no arguments 😂
@@sting0262naruto doesn't win in anyway ichigo is leagues stronger and faster
@@imanamerican553 Again. You have no argument
This is one of the most well put together videos I've watched in a while and I'm only half way through, good work king.
Yeah, the Bleach lowball was too crazy for a sub, but keep at your craft dude.
wait the gremmy thing, his power is imagination, not teleportation, saying he just brought outer space to kenpachi or vis versa is weird because he doesn't have the ability to teleport, unless you said he imagined outer space to be constructed there or something, but that isn't stated, it's simply his imagination imagining outer space with actual stars, it has been animated now and he doesn't just teleport him to outer space or vis versa, because it can be "broken" if you just imagined someone somewhere that would inherently give you any power technically, like why imagine kenpachi in outer space instead of teleporting him to literally anywhere and forgetting he exists because he is nowhere near the fight to begin with, he made the space of outer space but could just do that, make it with his imagination, not just give himself teleportation, he duplicated himself in order to do this feat of imagination, otherwise he could just give himself the ability to teleport kenpachi to outer space and leave him there
More Dislikes than likes.
That tells you something about this video.
(I use an extension that lets me see the dislikes in the video)
i pressed on this video expecting it be an unbiased almost hour long video on who would win between ichigo and naruto. but halfway through ure scaling of naruto i was just straight done with this video cuz of how dumb and much downplay u commited on ichigo. i would like to say thank you for wasting 33 minutes on 24 seconds of my life for this shit
This was before the new anine only scene but now its obvious ichigo slams
See this is why I'm doing an ichigo vs naruto vs luffy but as guardians from destiny.
Zetsu comments that Kirin would just be directed lightning before he corrects himself when he states that Sasuke tamed it. Id est, it would not be inconsistent for Kirin to actually go beyond typical lightning speed with Sasuke directing it.
Naruto actually loses his ability to use Yin-Yang Release after he sealed Kaguya since it was bound to his Sun-Seal which returned to Hagoromo, but special mention to his paralyzing Magnet Release Rasenshuriken or his Boil Release which can amplify him to the point of sending Kaguya flying.
Great video overall.
He doesn't loose his Ying-Yang release. If he lose it, He wouldn't be able to Use remaining Truth seeking orbs against Sasuke, Because Ying and ying release are needed yo yse them. But he cannot use it to the extent he used it with that seal of Hagoromo's. If ge tried, He could have regrown his limbs. Because of plot, Kishimoto didn't do it.
@@ThashneemYin-Yang Release is not needed to use Truth Seeking Orbs. Obito, before he stabilized, used them to blow apart Hiruzen before he then regenerated. Yin-Yang Release imbued Truth Seeking Orbs negate Edo Tensei regeneration. Truth Seeking Orbs only require simultaneous usage of all five basic nature transformations.
Truth seeking orbs. Negate justu and regenatrion. Ichigo has soul destroying damage. Naruto precognition is not working on ichigo. He has fought people that had better precognition. Also ichigo is far faster then naruto. Light speed feats was in substitute shinigami arc. Ichigo also scales to multiversal. Burn the witch is a big thanks to that. The light novel and data books have debunked some of what you said. Ichigo would win. The thing is his actual bankai ability in which is why people believe it is fate manipulation cause Kubo has brought up fate and defying it several times, having this bankai yhach. He even injured yhach who had already got almighty and he took damage from ichigo. Also something most people get wrong is that kaguya made dimensions. She did not. She teleported naruto and sasuke to a place she desired. Never did it say in the data books that she created in the details of her abilities and how they work. It is a theory that it was other dimensions but from what the last movie showed it was most likely other planets that they are able to breath on like how naruto could breath on the moon. But still ichigo is stronger. Muigetsu was a 4d-5d attack that was meant to kill a transcended being. Aizen who has transcended became so piwerful that humans were able to interact with him that had no powers. He defied reality and broke through the rules of it frim trying to become strong enough to be the next soul king. Ichigo in Danagi form also was at this level of strength and was able to see hy his friends. Fun fact muigetsu was so strong that roka paramia a character i love in safwy was crumbling from just trying to copy his attack. Her ability enables her to copy and store data in which she can use. So if someone like naruti did a rasenshuriken then roka would have the information about the attack saved like a computer and be able to use it at the levek or stronger then naruto did. She was dying trying to use muigetsu. This is no where near how strong ichigo is in tybw. Ichigo has gran ray cero getsugatensho and gran ray cero getsugajinsho. Ichigo is not meant ti have many abilities bevause he does not have a established connection woth his zanpakuto and hollow/quincy sides of him. Once he does he has a bankai ability in which kubo will say what it is later. But for all we know it can ve something. But his prevois feats and abilities are while he was nerfed and with a fake bankai to boot.
Conclusion to the video is pretty simple
Ichigo’s Striking Strength, AP, and Durability scale to the entire verse’s cosmology as he scales to one shot levels above Soul King Yhwach…while Ichigo’s nerfed himself.
Yhwach’s passive reiatsu holds the entire Bleach cosmology besides hell together, and even then his Reiatsu pushed back Hell while Aizen was sealed.
Bleach has several universal to infinite sized realms, the Dangai which is. Hyperspace, meaning it’s beyond 3 spatial dimensions, and the Garganta which is infinite even compared to the Dangai. all separate space times
So that’s Low Multiversal easily. Uni+ of you’re an extreme downplayer and say they’re all one space time.
Naruto doesn’t scale to his cosmology per say, but he scales insanely above Kaguya who created space time continuums. No confirmation on the size but let’s say they’re universal. She created 6 universal ST continuums. But it never said she created all at once, and her Expansive Truth Seeking Orb which is above her normal stats and output by a considerable amount was only able to destroy one of her dimensions. So it’s likely she’s Uni+, possibly Low Multi but not very likely
Speed wise it’s hard to get a consistent scale like AP cuz Naruto and Bleach’s light speed scaling can start anywhere from the first arc to the final arcs depending on what you interpret as valid
Though unless there’s an infinite gap in speed, speed doesn’t matter much due to Ichigo having passive abilities like Reiatsu Crush which would be more devastating than things like Kaguya’s gravity dimension
As for hax, Naruto has more but Ichigo’s are more potent. Ichigo resists most of Naruto’s, Naruto only resists some of Ichigo’s. Soul being pulled out and soul destruction, which means Ichigo cutting him won’t instantly dura neg one shot. Matter manipulation as well since he can touch TSOs
He debunked all that bs
@@MrLoops-dq9xt He didn’t. Arguing against doesn’t = a debunk, especially if your points aren’t valid
I could say DBS Goku isn’t universal and give reasons why, but if they aren’t actually valid to the series then it’s just my flawed interpretation
The anime/manga, data books and novels make it clear the Bleach cosmology is beyond universal by including things like hyperspace’s and the Garganta being infinitely larger
@@jocoolshow he already debunked those arguments as well
@@MrLoops-dq9xtWith baseless statements and quid pro quo. Rukia stating that the "universe" is made up of those realms does not mean it's a universe in size. The databooks even call the Soul Society a universe with the Kanji: "Uchu", which means universe. Therefore, using the statement that the Soul Society and Hueco Mundo mirror the World of the Living, we can conclude that those three realms are universes. He said that they never used "uchu" in the manga, when there's the databooks, the novels, the author statements, etc. He limited the criteria of seeing Uchu in any way describing the Soul Society to the manga only, when the Databooks and the light novels are also canon, and probably much better/consistent sources
Yhwach who posses the SK's reiroyko * was holding the realm together reiatsu has nothing to do with that.
To the point about Cero's being light speed, isn't reishi just the spiritual version to kishi (regular matter) hence the need of a kishi to resihi conversion device. So light in soul society being made of reishi is the 1:1 equivalent to light from the human world
So then a cero is just the manipulation of spiritual matter, so if there was an equivalent in human world it's just matter manipulation which is kinda busted now that I think about it but then again quincy literally absorb spirit matter and has some very nasty side effects on the world around them