Definitely. Yesterday's other finales (tennis and football) were only the icing on that cake. I know the "Grand Slam" was originally 'Tinkoffable' only, but is it really unthinkable?
In addition to wind, the improvement in race bikes and aerodynamics must factor at least 10%. It is therefor possible that Pantani was slower yet had a higher power to weight ratio. However, Pantani was also jacked to the tits on EPO which makes Pogacars performance even more remarkable.
Jonas himself said that he climbed better than ever. I think Visma did the right thing. Your assessment of Visma's tactics is bang on. I have been following cycling since 1983 and I have never seen a cyclist like Pog!
Six of the top ten times on the climb came from this year's race 8 of the top 20. With that many riders beating or coming close to the record, it's less likely a case of one person cheating and more likely access to superior science, bike tech, fitness, and nutrition that is shared by the wealthiest teams in the peloton. You should be more upset about wealth inequality in the teams than worried about one individual cheating.
The only cyclists who win back to back mountain stages = massive doping history always shows that! I can’t believe that the climbers who took it easy on the Pau to St Lary couldn’t keep up for the stage yesterday…
@@markopodganjek845 not at all, plenty of people could see that for what it was as well. However, UAE stepped it up this year. Just look at yesterday with Nils Politt dropping former GC riders on HC climbs. He couldn't do that before for Katusha or Bora... suddenly he can. UAE and Vizma are making a mockery of the sport again.
It's not clean riding obviously, just look at the history of team managers and owners. It has become a pointless sport again. None of us believed what we saw Armstrong do and we were right, we're right again, clearly.
@@cliveelliott2575yeah I read an article on that. Some of the history of UAE team management raises some concern along with pushing potentially 6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes and smashing records of a bunch of dopers. Especially considering Lance was at 7 w/kg. I'm not usually one to jump to doping allegations either but smashing this record by 3.5 min is crazy. And I do recall when many of us believed him back then too.
What I find a bit suspicious is, if the running world can't break 2 hours for a marathon how can it be modern training methods improving things so much? Bikes are the same weight as Lance Armstrong's too..
@@cliveelliott2575lance is thinking wtf are these guys on!!!😂, I could do with something on my weekend rides!!, anyone who thinks these guys are clean are delusional 😂, the drugs do work and make for great racing so I’m good with that👍
Going in, I think most people thought Pogacar would win. But, people were less certain about Vingegaard and if the race would be competitive. To me the most pleasant surprise of the tour has been just that, Vingegaard may be losing, but he is doing great and the race is competitive which makes watching it far more entertaining.
@@derosa8736 if your question is ==> only pogacar is doped ? , the answer is not of course but for him it sur , for vingegaard also Im french == fisherman ? ! !
Yes the quality of the network commentary took a net hit with Dan’s departure. He add’s a calm well reasoned approach that is devoid of ego. A nice contrast to many ex pros.
I like these comments a la "todays nutrition and equipment is way better". So much better apparently that they don't have similar times as those riders who were doped as crazy but they even beat this times by minutes!!!!
Especially when you think that at that time you could easily hear the same kind of bullshits compared to the past to justify performances…history in circle
If lebron dopes or has peds, how much more jordan? When athletes in the 90s are only tested before the season while in todays nba, athletes are tested 4 times before, 2 times in the middle and after the season and also some random testing if you are doing something crazy like scoring 60 or 70. But mj fans would not accept that mj was dopping and in peds while accusing lebron that he was on peds and dopes. Same in cycling, when armstrong and the crew was held liable for doping, people who broke records will be written as dopper, even with better nutrition, better bikes, better drafting, better training, better equipments, and better video coverage, and still the answer to breaking records from the 90s is DOPING. 😂 funny guy.
I think the UCI wised up and followed other sports. You cant ban your stars and expect to bring in revenue. They just turn a blind eye to doping. Same like the NBA and soccer.
Very impressive from Pogacar for sure! But Jonas did the performance of his life too, towing Tadej up a significant portion of that last climb. There's still a lot of wind protection benefit when you consider that these guys go faster up a mountain than us regular people go on the flat 😜
yup. it even used to be that these pros climbed at the speed where wind resistance would have almost to no effect, but these dudes rode up at +20kmh which has a noticeable effect so them being more fresh allows them to use more power for shorter sprints up the mountains so its reasonably to have these records broken
I would say it's just the most reasonable thing to do in this situation. Jonas tried to shake off Tadej a few times and get him to burst out precious energy - which didn't work - and then Tadej was just tiring off Jonas before the final attack, waiting to snap. In the end cycling at this level is as much strategy as it is strong legs.
“The last thing I’ll say for the people that don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics, I’m sorry for you. I’m sorry you can’t dream big and I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles...” -Lance Armstrong.
The list of fastest climbs to the summit Plateau de Beille includes at least 3 cyclists who tested positive for PEDs yet remain on official lists. I'm not sticking up for anyone who used PEDs. When the UCI et al include some of these folks in their official stats and leave Armstrong out, this decision looks less like a decision to uphold the integrity of the sport and more a desire to vilify one individual.
I don't know what's funnier: Evenepoel being a faster climber than Pantani, Vingegard riding the greatest climb of his life 3 months after that crash, breaking the record himself, or Pogacar smashing the record by almost 4 minutes after dominating the Giro. At least Pogacar was honest when he said he rode the greatest climb of all time.
@@julianmorris9951 What juice are you on? Dopestrong threatened anyone who spoke up about his cheating (and many were aware of it). Haven't heard even rumors of this happening over the past several years among the top teams, all of which have been dominant in every race. Just accept that more talented riders are being discovered and paid to ride, better tech is being developed, and that many lies about nutrition and fitness held dear by previous generations are being discarded in favor of better science. Tadej himself has outperformed his peers at every level starting when he was 15. Are you honestly arguing that he's been cheating since he was 15? Make it make sense LOL. You should be arguing about the "by the numbers" methodology that the most successful teams use now to min/max their performance in every area, and how it removes some of the human element from racing. In that sense, because Tadej regularly bucks authority and races for the sake of it, you should be cheering him on for refusing to act like a robot.
That could be part of it, but also there are alot more stronger riders throughout all the teams driving the pace up the climb. Plus the bikes, aero and everything else.
Dan I love your race analysis and thoroughly enjoyed you when you called races like the Giro this year. You are clear and concise and give interesting information without the fluff. I think you belong in the booth calling all the races.
This isn’t possible! How could everyone close their eyes and ignore this unreal performance! I think Pogacar and his Danish counterpart are in a good medication… I can’t celebrate this guys… if I looked in the faces during the climb the most impressive fighting performance was in Carapaz eyes… he really showed pain and power and the willpower to win this. He has my respect
When was the last time we saw such climbing feats? Let me see, oh yes, Lance Armstrong. Tadej breaks LA and Pantani's climbing records on consecutive days. This after dominating the Giro. This is not just better bikes or training. He is the new "Golden Boy" of cycling, so nothing to see here. I really enjoy all of you at GCN. I am just very skeptical of the cleanliness of Pogi and the rest of the peleton.
Pantani was a pure climber todays pure climbers, who save themselves for one stage get thrashed by someone who can beat the best time trialers in the tt.
Most of them don't want to speak out against the very industry that pays their bills. It takes a spacial breed of journalist to report on doping practices in cycling.
Man the pharmacology of today is even better than the EPO era. I think we all need to give a round of applause for the scientists that have given us these amazing results!! 👏🏻 🎉✊🏻
Oh dear, another thicko. Records from 25 years ago should be beaten.....The sport is more professional now; diet, nutrition, training, recovery, plus all the advanced tech. Most sports get better, why shouldn't road cycling.....
There was a billionaire trying to set up the Doped Olympics, to see how far human performance could go on juice. It fell flat because all top athletes in all sports are already juiced, while having the best sports science and support from well funded teams.
What a perfect thumbnail. There is new juice for a new generation, and the entertainment quality is just as high as it was under Il Pirata, the public is just out-of-the loop on how the solution is being applied.
Not suspicious at all to be 10% faster than anyone did on EPO and all the other doping they did back then. Without even looking particularly tired. Totally clean I'm sure.
I wonder how much of an effect better gear, better training, better nutrition, better technology, better tactics, and better planning has to do with better results. So easy to speculate EPO, and so easy to forget that the sport has advanced on a multi dimensional level as well.
All of these younger riders have had a biological passport since they started racing. Unless Tadej and Jonas and the rest have all found a chemist that can make them a designer drug that isn't detectable by blood and urine testing AND doesn't cause big spikes in testosterone, hematocrit, or cortisol then you're just talking out the side of your mouth.
@@markmcdonald9260 Then why not find a better hobby than posting idiotic comments on a video about the TdF? Are you looking for attention, or trying to appear smug and superior? If so, you failed. Just go away and do something constructive with your life. You won't be missed here.
I remember a Greg LeMond interview when he saw Armstrong smash it and leave Ullrich for dead. He said, he's not suffering. It was as clear as day. Then Pantani being told to cool it but then went balls out and stood out like a saw thumb. I hope for cycling this kids a genetic masterpiece, but fear that sort of effort followed by not being fazed or out of breath immediately after the stage leaves me fearing the worst.
I dont understand how he doesnt look tired at all, hardly breathing just when he crossed the finish line. also when he talks about his performance, i dont feel it means much to him. this does not look good to me...
They also used to marvel at how amazing it was, and how it was down to his equipment, training, team, and technology. I hope it’s not the case, but I agree. It feels like we’ve heard this story before. Having said that. I unashamedly love pog and am happy to believe it until proven otherwise
Isn't there something "fishy" about how pog flies up the final km on after an incredibly hard stage. That "effortless" riding style bring back images of Ricardo Ricco and Piepoli. I have been watching the tour since the mid 90's and though all the Indurein, Riss, Ulrich, Armstrong, Rasmussen, Landis and let's not forget the very clean Horner (vuelta) , who just happened to be in the shape of his life at age 34... I hope I'm wrong, but I cannot escape the feeling of this being a movie I have seen too many times. And oh, I have heard the better equipment/theconogical advances/ nutritional science / better training / hight camps etc. "Effect" all those times as well.
Having watched cycling through the 80s - 2010, I can;t help feeling that these "fastest ever" performances are as suspect as those in that era. What explains the sudden acceleration in terms of power / power to weight, speed numbers. I really, really hope I;m wrong, but I feel I;ve been here before. BTW, I;m a huge Pog fan in spite of the aprehension.
I actually feel the same way. How is it possible that they are smashing times from people who were clearly doping? And how is it possible that Jonas is that good after that shitty preparation for the tour?
@@CaminoCarpet That is definitely true, but I'm sure that the UCI actually prefers it that way. It doesn't look good for the image of cycling when one of your current superstars gets busted.
@@gcnracing You don't recognize sarcasm when it slaps you in the face, do you? He refers to Pogacar (and propably Vingegaard and Evenepoel) obviously being doped.
I maintain - despite there being an element of luck, part of being a great champion is avoiding falling off or crashing. And avoiding falling off or crashing when riders who are good at that around you also avoid falling off or crashing. And having the physiology to recover well. Bike handling, reading the road, panache and nouse. Like Sagan. Unlike Froome.
Based on the data / history, this was a good strategy for Visma. Pog just learned his lessons and I think prepared hard for both the Giro and the Tour. He has elevated his performance. Jonas has ridden great, no shame in his performance. He was just beaten by a better man.
I struggle to understand how someone can do a 40 minute max effort after a day of insane racing, get off their bike, speak normally and look like they've done nothing... I've been following cycling for over 40 years. I understand the improvements in nutrition and equipment that have resulted in faster times. But the watt per kg numbers are out of this world....
Plateau de Beille. for reference I did a virtual race through Rouvy on Saturday morning up this climb and it took an hour at a little under 4 w/kg. The elevation profile was the same. I was able to benefit a little from drafting and there was was no wind, no spectators throwing crisps, no flags or smoke bombs. I was giving as much as my body would allow - so yeah 39 mins is easily going to be around 7 w/kg. Now, if he had practiced beforehand he'd have known thhat there are two very short - maybe 100m each - descents during that climb.
I saw an estimate that Pog's effort would have been about 6.9 w/kg, but they are at altitude. At sea level, that would be 7.1-7.2 w/kg. Just pure insanity.
Power from Pog was definitely historic, but at 24/26kmph, analysts of the TdF need to be looking at the effect of drafting on these climbs. Historically we wouldn't need to due to the gradient/speeds neutralising this, but this is going to change team tactics going forward. Jonas himself said this was his best climbing effort, but it was almost working against him because his speed was creating a draft for Pog to sit in and then go ahead to take the record.
Drafting in a climb is not that great compared to drafting in flats. It was tested also in gcn. It is more like a psychological draft on the climbs. And also pog let jonas draft during the last 5km unfortunately he can’t glue to his wheel. Not pogs problem that jonas can’t glue to his wheel when he was willing to let jonas draft to him.
Pogs power is estimated at 7.2 w/kg AFTER ditching Vingegaard. This is the most doped era of cycling ever. The 90s have nothing on post Covid pro cycling.
@@johnnycab8986 haha you are so funny, all of the better equipment, better teammates, better drafting, better nutrition, better training, better food, better vitamins, better fuel, better bikes, better wheels, lighter bikes, better gears, better cadence, and all you can give a reason is doping HAHAHAHA. if someone is doping, the guy that has only a month of training and is 2nd for GC. That is dope (amazing). And also athletes now are being checked before, in between and after the tour de france, even after that stage 15, surely top 10 are being randomly tested. Just accept that cycling has evolved so with other sports.
I can't even tell you how many people were trolling the comments of people who knew about the topics you just listed, by saying exactly what you just said.. in the '90s and '00s. People aren't as stupid as you want them to be.
This show is so great. Daniel is just a natural, the scripts are concise and on-point, the video editing is crisp and unobtrusive, and it's just calm and civilized. We're lucky that these episodes exist.
thats is right..everyone playing down pog man like he is up against a sick injured man but jonas numbers are on par with what he produced last tour de france...nobody is mentioning that pog man came of the giro italia a tired man but still kicking azz..Pog did his highest numbers ever when visma was pulling with the american SO THOSE IN DENIAL PLEASE DONT GIVE ME THE JONAS SYMPATHY STORY
You're right to question it, it's impressive to see new fans be skeptical, so genuinely good job. There has probably never been a clean era in cycling. History keeps repeating itself. Pog's times are absolutely not believable, everyone knows it but there's something called "Omerta." Look up this phrase, what it means in pro cycling, and you will understand. Basically, everyone is cheating, so it hurts everyone and the sport to call out cheating, so everyone keeps quiet and just doesn't talk about it.
Because it's all a big show; big bike brands and the UCI benefit from it when the show is entertaining. For all I know, I don't care if these guys are doping themselves. But I care if they take us for idiots if they believe we won't notice.
It reminds of a similar rival in tennis between Federer and nadal. They dominated the sport, they were cordial and respectful with each other and other players. Players want to hate them cause they won everything but they couldn’t cause they were just nice people. This is definitely repairing the image of cycling this rivalry. Chuffed
Amazing performance but is anyone going to pose the question that we are all thinking - how are these performances possible with no performance enhancing drugs 4mins is alot "clean"
Look at the last era of rampant doping, heroic seemingly effortless wins in grand tours, spectacularly fast spring classics. And what do we have today? Fastest ever Paris-Roubaix, record times on TdF climbs. There is a doping problem in 2024, the only question is how long until we know exactly what is being used.
Vingo also beat their times and Remco as well. Some people are just content to piss away their one life being cynical about everything. They do it to themselves. 😀😀
❤❤no one expected Pogacar to smash all of the doped records of all time by over 3min. Smoked all of his predecessors records on this climb even though they were on epo, blood doped, and using growth hormones. Beat pantani by 3 and a half minutes, lance Armstrong by over 5min and countless others. This will almost definitely eventually go down as another tour of shame❤❤
The tactics the other years have worked because of the team. (Vingegård Roglic, Vingegård Kuss) This year Vingegard have to do more him selves. Pogi only have to pay attention to one rider.
This is a big margin back to a doped cyclist. Pantanis hematocrit was high 50,s...to beat his record he would need equivalent and this cannot be achieved naturally. If you have ever been involved with doping you know this.
50% is considered the maximum allowed or you are disqualified. Your comment is wrong because what was Pantanis VO2 max? A rider with a lower crit level but higher VO2 will beat him. All the extra red blood cells help but your bodies ability to actually uptake the oxygen matters and add modern nutrition, training, equipment.
@@OxygeneAirTime I just find it difficult to believe that one rider could obliterate such a record set by convicted dopers. Biology hasn't evolved that quickly in 20 years but the UCI and the bike brands do make a lot of money selling us the dream that us mere mortals could go as fast as Pro cyclists if we buy their 20k$ bikes.
Thank you for the tactics overview. Indeed, a posteriori, it doesn't look great, but it was probably their best chance. Without a chaotic event, Pogacar wins; with a chaotic event, he probably still does, but it's your best shot regardless.
@@garyvanbarnevoort6091 then why comment? We know that everyone in the NFL and MLB are juiced, but whenever someone does something amazing, you don’t hear every comment “must be the roids“? It’s tiresome.
From @muradtalukdar: “The last thing I’ll say for the people that don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics, I’m sorry for you. I’m sorry you can’t dream big and I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles...” -Lance Armstrong.
Sepp Kuss not being part of the team at the tour has totally hurt Jonas Vingegaard. Sepp Kuss is Jonas key rider like George Hincapie was for Lance Armstrong. I believe if Sepp did not come down with Covid before the tour this tour would not be such a blowout and especially the past two mountain stages.
Even with S.Kuss or S.Kruijswijk in Peak Fitness did'nt think Pogi would be cracked this weekend (He looked so strong on both Stages) Roglic(Bora) was the key this year (with J.Hindley in his Giro form) - But that did'nt happend Such an epic show between Pogacar & Vingegaard
Pogi once he got out of the saddle and attacked was like a feeling when I would watch Lance get up a go. It was awesome to see but have that feeling again.
More like UAE said "never again" after last year's tour and crammed all the latest doping innovations into Pog. Now he's a glowing thermonuclear mutant who beats the classics riders in spring, the Giro, the climbers on climbs, the rouleurs on cobbles/gravel, and the TT specialists in time trials. Absolutely taking the full piss. Sickening to watch.
Why do I feel like it would be a good idea to be skeptical about this? Doping? Motor doping? I hope not, but there is so much cheating in pro bicycle racing.
I agree, for me both remco and Jinas are highly suspicious. Pog is climbing champion entire life, but cmon, renco is irdinary flat road racer. And then Jinas with broken ribs, and without training for month.
Admittedly I am not a Pogacar fan. Dan you forgot to point out that Roglic, and Kuss are not there, and Wout is not in top shape. Having watched Pogacar in the Giro, and now the Tour. Something is not on the up and up.
If it looks too good to be true it usually is. Cycling has not changed one bit. Mouths are zipped and sponsors dollars are protected at all cost. Winning means contract expectations are fullfilled, no matter how that is achieved.
I honestly don't understand why people come to the comment sections just to slack off cycling as a sport and claim it is the hub of doping, unlike other sports... I am not saying that I believe Pogacar is clean, but people should also remember that cycling is actually the sport with the highest rate of doping controls in the world! One of the reasons we know about all the doping scandals is exactly that. Please imagine they would start doing such rigorous testing in Baseball, American Football, maybe even Football. It's ridiculous to believe all these athletes are clean. On top of that, people make it sound as if Pogacar and other cyclists just turn up to a race, take some drugs, race fast as hell, and don't sweat doing it. Doping doesn't turn a donkey into a race horse. This is still incredible performance, no matter what they take. It requires a daily dedication and hard work that is unbelievable. I would love to know which sports all these people watch and celebrate - because I am pretty sure that none of them are more 'clean' or 'unproblematic' from a health perspective
Maybe they just use something that's not on the Doping list. I.e allopurinol a medication against gout has proven to lower the damages to muscles after hard exercise.
No mention of drugs or mechanical doping in the discussion. Bizarre omission when Pantani was doped up to his eye balls when he did his time. Surely this performance can’t be down to training methods, equipment & diets 🤷♂️🤷♂️ great to watch but there will always be a big question mark for me ⁉️
No one Talking about the fact that all the other people in the record list of Plateau de Beille are from years where pretty much everyone doped Era of Ketones
It’s a headline you’ll never see. Sporting organisations have no interest in catching their athletes doping anymore, especially the top athletes. They just make a show of it for the public. It’s not just cycling it’s every sport now, although cycling is certainly still one of the worst imo. They don’t want the controversy and it’s in the organisations’ best interest for their athletes to not be clean. Not only do they perform better which makes their sport more exciting, they also recover a lot quicker (notice how quick Jonas came back from his serious injury and is already performing at a near all time great level) and get injured much less.
@zygmunthecacaokakistocrat6589 so the next headline would be "Vingegaard and Evenepool banned too for doping violations" if you say Pogacar can't be clean, you also have to say it about the other two... But people always just focus on the guy the like least and forget about their favorite...
Still the same doctors/DS/staff from Rabobank and Saunier Duval 😉. Still I agree on the progress made across all variables. But not to the extent that the improvements are solely because them.
Do you mean to say that it's not just the wider tires and better nutritional strategies that are enabling them to smash the records of former riders who were doped to the gills? 🤣😂
to all the people claiming there weren't worthy opponents at the Giro. Despite having JV in the race, that held TP back in a couple of stages, he has already 5min on RE, and 10min on the rest
I watched a bit of Lance's "The Move" podcast and was amazed to hear George Hincapie, and another guy (forget his name) say that had Jonas been fully healthy, he would have "100%" won that race. Huh???
Are you not entertained? Let us know what you make of this year's TDF in the comments 💬
Definitely. Yesterday's other finales (tennis and football) were only the icing on that cake.
I know the "Grand Slam" was originally 'Tinkoffable' only, but is it really unthinkable?
why does no one take the wind into account?
Yea, it's dope. Literally.
In addition to wind, the improvement in race bikes and aerodynamics must factor at least 10%. It is therefor possible that Pantani was slower yet had a higher power to weight ratio. However, Pantani was also jacked to the tits on EPO which makes Pogacars performance even more remarkable.
@@jackdoesengineering2309 sceptical the bike makes 10% difference up hill
Jonas himself said that he climbed better than ever. I think Visma did the right thing. Your assessment of Visma's tactics is bang on. I have been following cycling since 1983 and I have never seen a cyclist like Pog!
True, but Jonas also stated today that he probably would have performed better without the crash
Then you'll remember the Lemond/Fignon TT on the final day.
Doesn't this Tour also finish with a TT?
Could be nail-biting stuff....
@@carlfrancis8565 Only if Jonas pull back the time within seconds before then! this tt is not long enough to make a huge difference 34km
@@carlfrancis8565 Super Pog will definitely be further ahead before TT. In other words: your nails will be safe ;)
@carlfrancis8565 yep, i think Remco will overtake Jonas for second!
I agree that Remco has exceeded expectations. He is having a good tour!
First TDF, and after that accident. He’s a marvel of the new breed.
3rd place to 2 future legends of this sport is excellent.
What an amazing climb. His pharmacist is truly exceptional.
Or electromechanical engineer.
Six of the top ten times on the climb came from this year's race 8 of the top 20. With that many riders beating or coming close to the record, it's less likely a case of one person cheating and more likely access to superior science, bike tech, fitness, and nutrition that is shared by the wealthiest teams in the peloton.
You should be more upset about wealth inequality in the teams than worried about one individual cheating.
We return to coverage of the TDF brought to you by pfizer 😂
I am really impressed by Remco so far. Didn’t thought he could be that consistent, really looking forward to his future grand tours.
He's a real danger! That last day TT could work wonders for him 💨
The only cyclists who win back to back mountain stages = massive doping history always shows that!
I can’t believe that the climbers who took it easy on the Pau to St Lary couldn’t keep up for the stage yesterday…
Nah, it's the ketones drinks :-D
Different drugs different year. Same story.
Here we go again. Last year when Jonasvwas winning was everything ok and i didnt hear anything.
@@markopodganjek845 not at all, plenty of people could see that for what it was as well. However, UAE stepped it up this year. Just look at yesterday with Nils Politt dropping former GC riders on HC climbs. He couldn't do that before for Katusha or Bora... suddenly he can. UAE and Vizma are making a mockery of the sport again.
Not only were climb records smashed, they were climbing Plateau de Beille after climbing 4 cat 1 climbs! That's just crazy!
Super impressive right! This years tour is amazing 🙌
It's not clean riding obviously, just look at the history of team managers and owners. It has become a pointless sport again. None of us believed what we saw Armstrong do and we were right, we're right again, clearly.
@@cliveelliott2575yeah I read an article on that. Some of the history of UAE team management raises some concern along with pushing potentially 6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes and smashing records of a bunch of dopers. Especially considering Lance was at 7 w/kg. I'm not usually one to jump to doping allegations either but smashing this record by 3.5 min is crazy. And I do recall when many of us believed him back then too.
What I find a bit suspicious is, if the running world can't break 2 hours for a marathon how can it be modern training methods improving things so much? Bikes are the same weight as Lance Armstrong's too..
@@cliveelliott2575lance is thinking wtf are these guys on!!!😂, I could do with something on my weekend rides!!, anyone who thinks these guys are clean are delusional 😂, the drugs do work and make for great racing so I’m good with that👍
Going in, I think most people thought Pogacar would win. But, people were less certain about Vingegaard and if the race would be competitive. To me the most pleasant surprise of the tour has been just that, Vingegaard may be losing, but he is doing great and the race is competitive which makes watching it far more entertaining.
lol vingegaard lost even doped
poga is 10x doped that everybody (look the recor of plateau of beille)
0 doubt possible
@@morphilou so all 4 others including fisherman are doped because all are with record🤔
@@derosa8736 if your question is ==> only pogacar is doped ? , the answer is not of course
but for him it sur , for vingegaard also
Im french == fisherman ? ! !
@@morphilou cause he is a hater and thought you are a fan boy of the "Anchovy" and tryed to hate on Poggi
@@heidewatzka no i m french physicist therefore a scientific
I analyze facts not fantasies
It's those low PSI tubeless/hookless aero gains, combined with integrated cables which obviously drive these natty gainzzzzzzzzah.
And aerodynamic chain links
uphill tailwinds
You've been missed on commentary Dan. Hope the third week somehow manages to match the first two for enjoyment!
We're sure it will! We hope you are filling your boots with Dan here on GCN 🙌
Yes the quality of the network commentary took a net hit with Dan’s departure. He add’s a calm well reasoned approach that is devoid of ego. A nice contrast to many ex pros.
Yes. Dan is an awesome host, commentator and analyst. Keep it up!
I like these comments a la "todays nutrition and equipment is way better".
So much better apparently that they don't have similar times as those riders who were doped as crazy but they even beat this times by minutes!!!!
Especially when you think that at that time you could easily hear the same kind of bullshits compared to the past to justify performances…history in circle
If lebron dopes or has peds, how much more jordan? When athletes in the 90s are only tested before the season while in todays nba, athletes are tested 4 times before, 2 times in the middle and after the season and also some random testing if you are doing something crazy like scoring 60 or 70. But mj fans would not accept that mj was dopping and in peds while accusing lebron that he was on peds and dopes. Same in cycling, when armstrong and the crew was held liable for doping, people who broke records will be written as dopper, even with better nutrition, better bikes, better drafting, better training, better equipments, and better video coverage, and still the answer to breaking records from the 90s is DOPING. 😂 funny guy.
@@TeacherNickoy cycling is not any team game…nothing to do with it;)
I think the UCI wised up and followed other sports. You cant ban your stars and expect to bring in revenue. They just turn a blind eye to doping. Same like the NBA and soccer.
You have any soecific profe or you just soreading some, hate agenda? If you have dont wait, report immedaitly otherwise f..k your mouth close
Pogi was eating and drinking on all those climbs including during Jonas's attack. He wasn't about to bonk.
Mind games!
I said the same thing.. If you watched Tadej, he was eating and drinking more than normal. He knew what was ahead on that last climb..
@@gcnracingexactly, even after winning, I have never seen tadej more tired and looking for water and air
@@eduardoschneider2010 do you mean Vinegaard? Pog looked fine, it was Vin that was on his knees.
@@gcnracingno mind games, when the legs talk!
Very impressive from Pogacar for sure! But Jonas did the performance of his life too, towing Tadej up a significant portion of that last climb. There's still a lot of wind protection benefit when you consider that these guys go faster up a mountain than us regular people go on the flat 😜
yup. it even used to be that these pros climbed at the speed where wind resistance would have almost to no effect, but these dudes rode up at +20kmh which has a noticeable effect so them being more fresh allows them to use more power for shorter sprints up the mountains so its reasonably to have these records broken
I would say it's just the most reasonable thing to do in this situation. Jonas tried to shake off Tadej a few times and get him to burst out precious energy - which didn't work - and then Tadej was just tiring off Jonas before the final attack, waiting to snap. In the end cycling at this level is as much strategy as it is strong legs.
You can't ride the Tour de France on mineral water.
“Jacques Anquetil”
yep you need sugar water
"Jacques Anquetil said that about Bordeaux - Paris, not the Tour de France"
- Abraham Lincoln
@@Hubertus-ko6ylelectrolyte water would be better
@@TeacherNickoy electrolytes and carbs, both needed
Dan Lloyd: Hold my mineral water 🍺
“The last thing I’ll say for the people that don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics, I’m sorry for you. I’m sorry you can’t dream big and I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles...”
-Lance Armstrong.
He was right about the dreaming part.
Ya, lol. Miracle juices.
@@muradtalukdar4401 Thanks for the quote. That is perfect!
The list of fastest climbs to the summit Plateau de Beille includes at least 3 cyclists who tested positive for PEDs yet remain on official lists. I'm not sticking up for anyone who used PEDs. When the UCI et al include some of these folks in their official stats and leave Armstrong out, this decision looks less like a decision to uphold the integrity of the sport and more a desire to vilify one individual.
I admit I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind...... anyone else?
Evenopoel is riding a smart race. Knowing third place and a stage win is a huge win for him
That final TT is going to be his time to shine though 👀
@@gcnracing Not really. It is mostly either uphill or downhill, not so much flat. Pogacar is better at both.
I don't know what's funnier: Evenepoel being a faster climber than Pantani, Vingegard riding the greatest climb of his life 3 months after that crash, breaking the record himself, or Pogacar smashing the record by almost 4 minutes after dominating the Giro. At least Pogacar was honest when he said he rode the greatest climb of all time.
What gear was Pantani using?
@@indonesiaamerica7050 all the gear he could get his hands on
@@jonathanbrooks5279 Pogacar's gear is legal and a lot more efficient.
I’m just happy we’re back to juiced to the gills racing!!! , this is more like it guys 👍
@@julianmorris9951 What juice are you on? Dopestrong threatened anyone who spoke up about his cheating (and many were aware of it). Haven't heard even rumors of this happening over the past several years among the top teams, all of which have been dominant in every race.
Just accept that more talented riders are being discovered and paid to ride, better tech is being developed, and that many lies about nutrition and fitness held dear by previous generations are being discarded in favor of better science. Tadej himself has outperformed his peers at every level starting when he was 15. Are you honestly arguing that he's been cheating since he was 15? Make it make sense LOL.
You should be arguing about the "by the numbers" methodology that the most successful teams use now to min/max their performance in every area, and how it removes some of the human element from racing. In that sense, because Tadej regularly bucks authority and races for the sake of it, you should be cheering him on for refusing to act like a robot.
I am celebrating winners of each TourdeFrance 10 years after victory.
And you’ll still be a sad cynic that pissed away their one life being a sad cynic. 😀
Amazing performances, it's just like the 'good ole days' of the 90s...
clean as a whistle those guys. Bread and water :D
dont forget the carbs ha
anquetil said only a fool believes it's possible to ride from Bordeaux to Paris on just water
@@2011hwalker ...and ketones!!! 😉
@@fanda6122 he also actively resisted the early drug testing, if memory serves.
That could be part of it, but also there are alot more stronger riders throughout all the teams driving the pace up the climb. Plus the bikes, aero and everything else.
Dan I love your race analysis and thoroughly enjoyed you when you called races like the Giro this year. You are clear and concise and give interesting information without the fluff. I think you belong in the booth calling all the races.
Pogacar eyeingup the vuelta too?? Absutely zero sign of fatigue after a giro win and 16 stages. . Just unbelievable...
This isn’t possible! How could everyone close their eyes and ignore this unreal performance! I think Pogacar and his Danish counterpart are in a good medication… I can’t celebrate this guys… if I looked in the faces during the climb the most impressive fighting performance was in Carapaz eyes… he really showed pain and power and the willpower to win this. He has my respect
When was the last time we saw such climbing feats? Let me see, oh yes, Lance Armstrong. Tadej breaks LA and Pantani's climbing records on consecutive days. This after dominating the Giro. This is not just better bikes or training. He is the new "Golden Boy" of cycling, so nothing to see here. I really enjoy all of you at GCN. I am just very skeptical of the cleanliness of Pogi and the rest of the peleton.
Pantani was a pure climber todays pure climbers, who save themselves for one stage get thrashed by someone who can beat the best time trialers in the tt.
Cycling news media needs to STEP UP and GET SOME INTEGRITY. Unless you're openly accusing these mutants of doping, I don't want to hear it.
Most of them don't want to speak out against the very industry that pays their bills. It takes a spacial breed of journalist to report on doping practices in cycling.
@@santiagobenites Sadly I know you're right. Just hard to watch for me, I've been through this pattern so many times.
D. Oping has entered the chat
Man the pharmacology of today is even better than the EPO era. I think we all need to give a round of applause for the scientists that have given us these amazing results!! 👏🏻 🎉✊🏻
Oh dear, another thicko. Records from 25 years ago should be beaten.....The sport is more professional now; diet, nutrition, training, recovery, plus all the advanced tech. Most sports get better, why shouldn't road cycling.....
Ain't cheating if it's not on the list eh? 😅
@@WerdnaLiten 🤣 😂 🤣 It will all come out. Some day.
@@WerdnaLitenthere is no diet or nutrition capable of beating doped up riders. Get your head out of the sand
Love Cycling...but nutrition ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I believed they are all juiced out of their minds. The greatest cyclists ever + most advanced bikes + TONS of PEDS = Record times. No doubt about it.
Who cares still top tier entertainment
There was a billionaire trying to set up the Doped Olympics, to see how far human performance could go on juice. It fell flat because all top athletes in all sports are already juiced, while having the best sports science and support from well funded teams.
What a perfect thumbnail. There is new juice for a new generation, and the entertainment quality is just as high as it was under Il Pirata, the public is just out-of-the loop on how the solution is being applied.
Thank god we’re back juicing 😀 the racing is great!!!!, just like back in the day, the tdf is back and I love it👍
It'd honestly be insteresting to know what kind of sauce they're on to get such performances.
HP?
@@gcnracingwhat chemical compound is HP an abbreviation of?
Not suspicious at all to be 10% faster than anyone did on EPO and all the other doping they did back then. Without even looking particularly tired. Totally clean I'm sure.
I wonder how much of an effect better gear, better training, better nutrition, better technology, better tactics, and better planning has to do with better results. So easy to speculate EPO, and so easy to forget that the sport has advanced on a multi dimensional level as well.
But notthe human beeing!
@@boxofspaceTrue Believer, eh?
All of these younger riders have had a biological passport since they started racing. Unless Tadej and Jonas and the rest have all found a chemist that can make them a designer drug that isn't detectable by blood and urine testing AND doesn't cause big spikes in testosterone, hematocrit, or cortisol then you're just talking out the side of your mouth.
@@RocksOff72 Yeah, because the history of the UCI isn't full of examples of giving carte blanche to select riders or teams, right?
Clean as a whistle! What a f@cking joke. Tour de Farce.
yep do not watch it anymore it has become a JOKE.
@@markmcdonald9260 Then why not find a better hobby than posting idiotic comments on a video about the TdF? Are you looking for attention, or trying to appear smug and superior? If so, you failed. Just go away and do something constructive with your life. You won't be missed here.
I remember a Greg LeMond interview when he saw Armstrong smash it and leave Ullrich for dead. He said, he's not suffering. It was as clear as day. Then Pantani being told to cool it but then went balls out and stood out like a saw thumb. I hope for cycling this kids a genetic masterpiece, but fear that sort of effort followed by not being fazed or out of breath immediately after the stage leaves me fearing the worst.
Pogi also has the Giro in his legs. 😆
I dont understand how he doesnt look tired at all, hardly breathing just when he crossed the finish line. also when he talks about his performance, i dont feel it means much to him. this does not look good to me...
@@erus0n exactly. Everyone else looks exhausted…. Except the guy breaking records.
I guess he just gulped a shed load of water down for fun then at the end and was heavy breathing for a laugh. C’mon man
You can hear him heavy breathing on the recording
hes doped to the grills. even more than fishboy. Remking is clean tho you can see it
@@jakobknipfer4809🤣🤣🤣🤣 right
faster than all the drugies from the 90’s. Thats kind of hard to believe
Mechanical Doping > Blood Doping?
Definitely not clean
It's hard to comprehend the advancement in tech, training and recovery. Riders these days are in a very different race 🏁
@@gcnracingI have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you
@gcnracing And Mr Olympia won with chicken, Broccoli and Rice.
Everyone used to say Lance was clean
They also used to marvel at how amazing it was, and how it was down to his equipment, training, team, and technology.
I hope it’s not the case, but I agree. It feels like we’ve heard this story before.
Having said that. I unashamedly love pog and am happy to believe it until proven otherwise
. Well said. On my part, I dont care, what difference does it really...?!
People still say that about Mercx... having tested positive more times than is allowed before a lifetime ban in today's pro cycling
Isn't there something "fishy" about how pog flies up the final km on after an incredibly hard stage. That "effortless" riding style bring back images of Ricardo Ricco and Piepoli. I have been watching the tour since the mid 90's and though all the Indurein, Riss, Ulrich, Armstrong, Rasmussen, Landis and let's not forget the very clean Horner (vuelta) , who just happened to be in the shape of his life at age 34... I hope I'm wrong, but I cannot escape the feeling of this being a movie I have seen too many times. And oh, I have heard the better equipment/theconogical advances/ nutritional science / better training / hight camps etc. "Effect" all those times as well.
@@JC-ib3cpI am shocked shocked to find that gambling is going on! Your winnings captain Renault.
Must have been the 165mm cranks
I also saw that his team car gave him a 8oz coca-cola with about 25k to go. That explains his super powers on the last climb
Having watched cycling through the 80s - 2010, I can;t help feeling that these "fastest ever" performances are as suspect as those in that era. What explains the sudden acceleration in terms of power / power to weight, speed numbers. I really, really hope I;m wrong, but I feel I;ve been here before. BTW, I;m a huge Pog fan in spite of the aprehension.
I actually feel the same way. How is it possible that they are smashing times from people who were clearly doping? And how is it possible that Jonas is that good after that shitty preparation for the tour?
Dopers are always years ahead of UCI detection capabilities.
But then question any record on any sport (Usain Bolt); if everyone is doping, they all are at same level anyway.
@@CaminoCarpet That is definitely true, but I'm sure that the UCI actually prefers it that way. It doesn't look good for the image of cycling when one of your current superstars gets busted.
@@Pgcito Greg Lemond would disagree. As a non-doper he could spot the dopers and explain why.
I prefer it when the riders seem to be trying hard and are tired at the end.
We're pretty sure they are trying hard 👀
@@gcnracing You don't recognize sarcasm when it slaps you in the face, do you?
He refers to Pogacar (and propably Vingegaard and Evenepoel) obviously being doped.
@@thomaskositzki9424 He understood
I maintain - despite there being an element of luck, part of being a great champion is avoiding falling off or crashing.
And avoiding falling off or crashing when riders who are good at that around you also avoid falling off or crashing. And having the physiology to recover well.
Bike handling, reading the road, panache and nouse.
Like Sagan. Unlike Froome.
Based on the data / history, this was a good strategy for Visma. Pog just learned his lessons and I think prepared hard for both the Giro and the Tour. He has elevated his performance. Jonas has ridden great, no shame in his performance. He was just beaten by a better man.
jonas himself said that he put in the climbing performance of his life. that shocked me
Some amazing times on that climb! We still have a fight on our hands 🙌 Do you think Jonas can catch Pog? 🇫🇷
@@gcnracing it's entirely possible but i doubt it
I struggle to understand how someone can do a 40 minute max effort after a day of insane racing, get off their bike, speak normally and look like they've done nothing...
I've been following cycling for over 40 years. I understand the improvements in nutrition and equipment that have resulted in faster times.
But the watt per kg numbers are out of this world....
Thanks Dan and crew...what a race !!
Plateau de Beille. for reference I did a virtual race through Rouvy on Saturday morning up this climb and it took an hour at a little under 4 w/kg. The elevation profile was the same. I was able to benefit a little from drafting and there was was no wind, no spectators throwing crisps, no flags or smoke bombs. I was giving as much as my body would allow - so yeah 39 mins is easily going to be around 7 w/kg. Now, if he had practiced beforehand he'd have known thhat there are two very short - maybe 100m each - descents during that climb.
I saw an estimate that Pog's effort would have been about 6.9 w/kg, but they are at altitude. At sea level, that would be 7.1-7.2 w/kg. Just pure insanity.
Nice w/kg Kudos 💪💪
Power from Pog was definitely historic, but at 24/26kmph, analysts of the TdF need to be looking at the effect of drafting on these climbs. Historically we wouldn't need to due to the gradient/speeds neutralising this, but this is going to change team tactics going forward. Jonas himself said this was his best climbing effort, but it was almost working against him because his speed was creating a draft for Pog to sit in and then go ahead to take the record.
Drafting in a climb is not that great compared to drafting in flats. It was tested also in gcn. It is more like a psychological draft on the climbs. And also pog let jonas draft during the last 5km unfortunately he can’t glue to his wheel. Not pogs problem that jonas can’t glue to his wheel when he was willing to let jonas draft to him.
Pogs power is estimated at 7.2 w/kg AFTER ditching Vingegaard. This is the most doped era of cycling ever. The 90s have nothing on post Covid pro cycling.
@@johnnycab8986 haha you are so funny, all of the better equipment, better teammates, better drafting, better nutrition, better training, better food, better vitamins, better fuel, better bikes, better wheels, lighter bikes, better gears, better cadence, and all you can give a reason is doping HAHAHAHA. if someone is doping, the guy that has only a month of training and is 2nd for GC. That is dope (amazing). And also athletes now are being checked before, in between and after the tour de france, even after that stage 15, surely top 10 are being randomly tested. Just accept that cycling has evolved so with other sports.
I can't even tell you how many people were trolling the comments of people who knew about the topics you just listed, by saying exactly what you just said.. in the '90s and '00s. People aren't as stupid as you want them to be.
Some people are content to piss away their one life being cynical about everything. They do it to themselves. 😀😀
Vingegaard with no Itzulia Crash '24 > Pogacar '24 > Vingegaard with crash '24 > Vingegaard '23 > Pogacar '23
This show is so great. Daniel is just a natural, the scripts are concise and on-point, the video editing is crisp and unobtrusive, and it's just calm and civilized. We're lucky that these episodes exist.
thats is right..everyone playing down pog man like he is up against a sick injured man but jonas numbers are on par with what he produced last tour de france...nobody is mentioning that pog man came of the giro italia a tired man but still kicking azz..Pog did his highest numbers ever when visma was pulling with the american SO THOSE IN DENIAL PLEASE DONT GIVE ME THE JONAS SYMPATHY STORY
Given how many people is calling it suspicious i dont think anyone missed that.
@@Pawsk nothing to be suspicious about. They're all doping, including riders struggling with the time cut
@veganpotterthevegan if you want say it I will you mean Mark C right
I agree he has done nothing in my book
@kdb991 everyone in the peloton includes Mark. Also, Cav didn't finish last and someone missed the time cut
Pog is certainly giving it his all 👀 Will he be able to keep this up?
As a new cycling fan, how does someone beat Lance Armstrong's ascent if he was doping so much?
Because we know what Lance was up to and the riders from the 1990s as well
It’s not a good look to be beating those times by that many minutes
Welcome to pro cycling
You're right to question it, it's impressive to see new fans be skeptical, so genuinely good job. There has probably never been a clean era in cycling. History keeps repeating itself. Pog's times are absolutely not believable, everyone knows it but there's something called "Omerta." Look up this phrase, what it means in pro cycling, and you will understand. Basically, everyone is cheating, so it hurts everyone and the sport to call out cheating, so everyone keeps quiet and just doesn't talk about it.
Because it's all a big show; big bike brands and the UCI benefit from it when the show is entertaining. For all I know, I don't care if these guys are doping themselves. But I care if they take us for idiots if they believe we won't notice.
It means they are doping it’s that simple
I knew he was doped when Amstrong put in performances like this. The facts just didn't add up.
If this wasn't doping; I'd be very, very suprised.
It reminds of a similar rival in tennis between Federer and nadal. They dominated the sport, they were cordial and respectful with each other and other players. Players want to hate them cause they won everything but they couldn’t cause they were just nice people. This is definitely repairing the image of cycling this rivalry. Chuffed
There’s now way you’re being fr 😭
Peleton lookin juicy again, multiple riders beating prime Pantani and Armstrong easily even after 5k meters of climbing. 😂
absolutely. You'd have to be blind not to see it
Amazing performance but is anyone going to pose the question that we are all thinking - how are these performances possible with no performance enhancing drugs 4mins is alot "clean"
Give Pantani today's bike, nutrition and updated juice 😂 Pog and Jonas are using and he would have done it in 35 min
I want to see Tadej's actual power data. And Jonas'. If ASO required it released after stages, it would make the race more interesting.
ASO don't have any power to require or claim power data. UCI can.
Look at the last era of rampant doping, heroic seemingly effortless wins in grand tours, spectacularly fast spring classics. And what do we have today? Fastest ever Paris-Roubaix, record times on TdF climbs. There is a doping problem in 2024, the only question is how long until we know exactly what is being used.
So Pogi beat a doped up Pantani and Armstrong’s time but people think Tadej is clean🙄
Nutrition has improved!
Lol
@@niceguy1774 yeah nutrition and Aero socks 😂
Vingo also beat their times and Remco as well.
Some people are just content to piss away their one life being cynical about everything. They do it to themselves. 😀😀
Why comment, honestly, why comment if you’re just going to throw mud?
When everyone starts improving, you bet something new is on the market..
Would love to see how fast they climb it on a bike the same as pantani's.
doped to the gills
I hope he is clean but I must admit I’m a bit skeptical. He outperformed all the previous riders that we know were doping. Hmmm?
❤❤no one expected Pogacar to smash all of the doped records of all time by over 3min. Smoked all of his predecessors records on this climb even though they were on epo, blood doped, and using growth hormones. Beat pantani by 3 and a half minutes, lance Armstrong by over 5min and countless others. This will almost definitely eventually go down as another tour of shame❤❤
Dopegacar is 1000% clean 😂
Pog is unreal, what a ryder! we love u Pogi u the best of the best...
The tactics the other years have worked because of the team. (Vingegård Roglic, Vingegård Kuss) This year Vingegard have to do more him selves. Pogi only have to pay attention to one rider.
This is a big margin back to a doped cyclist. Pantanis hematocrit was high 50,s...to beat his record he would need equivalent and this cannot be achieved naturally. If you have ever been involved with doping you know this.
50% is considered the maximum allowed or you are disqualified. Your comment is wrong because what was Pantanis VO2 max? A rider with a lower crit level but higher VO2 will beat him. All the extra red blood cells help but your bodies ability to actually uptake the oxygen matters and add modern nutrition, training, equipment.
@@Banjoman-p7t Pogacar's VO2 is 89.4. Pantani's was 90. How you like them apples?
@@OxygeneAirTime I just find it difficult to believe that one rider could obliterate such a record set by convicted dopers. Biology hasn't evolved that quickly in 20 years but the UCI and the bike brands do make a lot of money selling us the dream that us mere mortals could go as fast as Pro cyclists if we buy their 20k$ bikes.
Anyone else hearing that burp at 9:46 ?! 😂
Thank you for the tactics overview. Indeed, a posteriori, it doesn't look great, but it was probably their best chance. Without a chaotic event, Pogacar wins; with a chaotic event, he probably still does, but it's your best shot regardless.
Not normal.
Pogacar was faster than Pantini and Pantini was super doped. There is no way modern riders are doing it without doping.
That is correct.
Then why bother watching. If you think they’re cheating, don’t watch
@@suziederkins3310 I dont think they are cheating, I am sure they are cheating. But I dont care, I like the sport.
@@garyvanbarnevoort6091 then why comment? We know that everyone in the NFL and MLB are juiced, but whenever someone does something amazing, you don’t hear every comment “must be the roids“? It’s tiresome.
@@suziederkins3310 What is tiresome is people telling other people what they should do or say, or what they shouldn't do or say.
From @muradtalukdar: “The last thing I’ll say for the people that don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics, I’m sorry for you. I’m sorry you can’t dream big and I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles...”
-Lance Armstrong.
Solid argument and explanation regarding what happened on the stage... and what is happening for the remainder.
Pogacar is on a different level this year
Thanks to his doctors.
A different level of doping
@@ianbrown4833 innocent until proven guilty but he's SUS fr
@@Gamingtingz98 Also Im not naive anymore :)
@jurom6765
No, you’re just a sad cynic. 😀
Sepp Kuss not being part of the team at the tour has totally hurt Jonas Vingegaard. Sepp Kuss is Jonas key rider like George Hincapie was for Lance Armstrong. I believe if Sepp did not come down with Covid before the tour this tour would not be such a blowout and especially the past two mountain stages.
Even with S.Kuss or S.Kruijswijk in Peak Fitness did'nt think Pogi would be cracked this weekend (He looked so strong on both Stages)
Roglic(Bora) was the key this year (with J.Hindley in his Giro form) - But that did'nt happend
Such an epic show between Pogacar & Vingegaard
Pogi once he got out of the saddle and attacked was like a feeling when I would watch Lance get up a go. It was awesome to see but have that feeling again.
More like UAE said "never again" after last year's tour and crammed all the latest doping innovations into Pog. Now he's a glowing thermonuclear mutant who beats the classics riders in spring, the Giro, the climbers on climbs, the rouleurs on cobbles/gravel, and the TT specialists in time trials. Absolutely taking the full piss. Sickening to watch.
Imagine being so doped in the 90s and early 2000s and still your time got beaten by all "natural" guy.😅
I appreciate you..great information..thanks!
The way after coming first he didn’t look tired one bit. Very Very hard to believe this guy isn’t clean.
Why do I feel like it would be a good idea to be skeptical about this? Doping? Motor doping? I hope not, but there is so much cheating in pro bicycle racing.
My dad was a low level pro and he’s always told me that the minute they start breaking records again it means they’re doping
I agree, for me both remco and Jinas are highly suspicious. Pog is climbing champion entire life, but cmon, renco is irdinary flat road racer. And then Jinas with broken ribs, and without training for month.
Admittedly I am not a Pogacar fan. Dan you forgot to point out that Roglic, and Kuss are not there, and Wout is not in top shape. Having watched Pogacar in the Giro, and now the Tour. Something is not on the up and up.
If it looks too good to be true it usually is.
Cycling has not changed one bit.
Mouths are zipped and sponsors dollars are protected at all cost.
Winning means contract expectations are fullfilled, no matter how that is achieved.
GCN merch is fun. I have both their cookbooks and enjoy them very much.
10% Better than the most well-known dopers in the sport’s history.
Hmmmmm….
I really want to believe this is all legit but breaking records of known dopers by that much. Sigh.
I honestly don't understand why people come to the comment sections just to slack off cycling as a sport and claim it is the hub of doping, unlike other sports...
I am not saying that I believe Pogacar is clean, but people should also remember that cycling is actually the sport with the highest rate of doping controls in the world! One of the reasons we know about all the doping scandals is exactly that. Please imagine they would start doing such rigorous testing in Baseball, American Football, maybe even Football. It's ridiculous to believe all these athletes are clean.
On top of that, people make it sound as if Pogacar and other cyclists just turn up to a race, take some drugs, race fast as hell, and don't sweat doing it. Doping doesn't turn a donkey into a race horse. This is still incredible performance, no matter what they take. It requires a daily dedication and hard work that is unbelievable.
I would love to know which sports all these people watch and celebrate - because I am pretty sure that none of them are more 'clean' or 'unproblematic' from a health perspective
That is the Power Pogacar was talking about when we kept saying he has no strategy last week
If all those guys were faster than an elite doped rider (who was clearly the world's best climber in the late 90s) then you know what that means . . .
Maybe they just use something that's not on the Doping list. I.e allopurinol a medication against gout has proven to lower the damages to muscles after hard exercise.
No mention of drugs or mechanical doping in the discussion. Bizarre omission when Pantani was doped up to his eye balls when he did his time. Surely this performance can’t be down to training methods, equipment & diets 🤷♂️🤷♂️ great to watch but there will always be a big question mark for me ⁉️
Go get your own “truth” on the dark web
10 percent better drugs today then those days 😂
No one Talking about the fact that all the other people in the record list of Plateau de Beille are from years where pretty much everyone doped
Era of Ketones
"Pogacar DQed and banned for X months/years for doping violations" is a headline I won't be surprised to see in the next while.
I think we’ll have to wait a long time before we see that since they’ve probably been paying off the people testing them for a while already
It’s a headline you’ll never see. Sporting organisations have no interest in catching their athletes doping anymore, especially the top athletes. They just make a show of it for the public. It’s not just cycling it’s every sport now, although cycling is certainly still one of the worst imo.
They don’t want the controversy and it’s in the organisations’ best interest for their athletes to not be clean. Not only do they perform better which makes their sport more exciting, they also recover a lot quicker (notice how quick Jonas came back from his serious injury and is already performing at a near all time great level) and get injured much less.
@zygmunthecacaokakistocrat6589
so the next headline would be "Vingegaard and Evenepool banned too for doping violations" if you say Pogacar can't be clean, you also have to say it about the other two... But people always just focus on the guy the like least and forget about their favorite...
Still the same doctors/DS/staff from Rabobank and Saunier Duval 😉.
Still I agree on the progress made across all variables. But not to the extent that the improvements are solely because them.
Do you mean to say that it's not just the wider tires and better nutritional strategies that are enabling them to smash the records of former riders who were doped to the gills? 🤣😂
Another ignoramus......
Be clear. Any evidence of doping?
Exactly all of the things you listed create marginal gains while doping is what creates Dopegacar level gains
Funny to think that Pogie would have dropped L.A. & Il Pirata (M.Pentani) had they been riding...😂 Simply put : Astonishing...!!😳
to all the people claiming there weren't worthy opponents at the Giro.
Despite having JV in the race, that held TP back in a couple of stages, he has already 5min on RE, and 10min on the rest
Time to give Lance his titles back. 😉
I watched a bit of Lance's "The Move" podcast and was amazed to hear George Hincapie, and another guy (forget his name) say that had Jonas been fully healthy, he would have "100%" won that race.
Huh???
I think Poggi just need to loose time on purpose before it’s become a joke
theyre on the good sauce !
You should give credit to Patrick Broe for identifying Pogi’s historic performance, not just a KOM.
ALL prior ascent / power records were by SUPER-DOPED riders ... just saying