ELECTRIC vs PETROL vs PLUG-IN HYBRID CAR - which is REALLY cheaper?? | What Car?
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2023
- #WhatCar #KiaNiro #FuelTest #EVvsPetrol
Is an electric car REALLY cheaper to run than a petrol car and a plug-in hybrid car? We do a long 280-mile journey AND a short town trip to crunch the numbers and find out.
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Why would you not charge to 80% in Birmingham whilst having a coffee!
Octopus energy currently gives you six hours through the night at 7.5p per kWh. A quarter of the 30p used in the test. Myself and everyone I know with an electric car will charge through the night, off peak. When filling up my petrol car with fuel, I wouldn't fill it at a petrol station that was 4 times more expensive! But charging your car at independent charging stations is ridiculously expensive and makes no sense.
Not everyone can charge at home
But the EV had insufficient range to use home charging exclusively on the Birmingham trip
No but there isn’t any mention of the cheaper charging costs that are available to those who can do it’s a bit of a skewed review and assessment of cost. What about mentioning for those that can and mentioning that there are cheaper public charging points. They’ve filled up at cheapest petrol prices, no mention of how much fuel is on motorways etc.
@@ianroe6678 but petrol and hybrid cars have decent range so it's easy to avoid motorway fill-ups. Not so with BEV
But you can't take your home everywhere
Point 1.
Why charge it back to 100% on the way back. Only needs a 10min charge at those highway expensive chargers... (this is what they said at the beginning, then he ended up only charging for 30mins roughly apparently). Instavolt being one of the most expensive chargers to add. Would have made more sense charging in Birmingham when they all had a stop for a bite to eat and all would have got back at the same time, plus the cost of charging probably significantly less.
And why not charge it when they stopped in Birmingham? It was set up to fail the EV.
Sponsored by the oil industry.
He was at the charge point for 34 minutes...... He didn't charge to 100%
@@reddeviluk the Niro is economical, he probably didn't even need to charge. A 34 min charge at a high speed charger is a lot of Kw.
@@Mexi257 It wasn't that high speed though as he was, I think, on a 150kW which shares its delivery. Having made that point, he said the eNiro only went up to 75+kW anyway. I'd have charged at this price, just enough to get home with a few % to spare, part of the fun and it hasn't failed me... yet 🙂
I think the real takeaway here is that you should only charge at home wherever possible. If you are lucky enough to have a solar roof then this could be an even bigger delta
This. Most people don't do long distances that often either, so even if you had to pay the ridiculous 75p per kilowatt because you couldn't plan to use a cheaper service nearby it wouldn't be often enough to really make a difference. Most EV owners charge exclusively at home, and they wouldn't likely be paying 30p as they'd change tariff - and that's before even looking at things like solar (perhaps with home battery) to further reduce the electricity costs. Such a setup would become more economically sound if you had an EV, so you'd save on your home energy costs too.
@@JonathanMorris777 Sounds great. What about people who don't have a drive?
In London thats a majority too so they are stuck with public charging at all times.
Its also ignoring what the extra cost of the car means in real terms because an extra ~£8k is going to attract interest or if you pay it outright you are missing money you would otherwise be investing. Either way its another cost.
Then there is the inconvenience factor. These guys got lucky in that they pulled up, straight on a charger and it was all working. I've owned ev's since 2010 and from experience I know thats certainly not always the case but even presuming things go well its still another half hour standing about for nothing.
Would you go to work for half an hour for free? How about once per week? How about once per day if you have a decent commute or can't afford a car with a large enough battery to cover your trip?
Oh and solar - again sounds great if you have a roof of your own, don't mind forking out a good few grand and if your insurance company doesn't then hit you with a much higher premium.
Or you could just save around £15k between the car and solar and all the rest and drive the hybrid - regardless of where you live.
@@JonathanMorris777 Then you have to factor in the cost of a home battery wall plus solar...and of course charging overnight at home without a battery means it wont be even approaching free.
Fine if you never travel far. They need to be cheaper to run( which they are not) as they cost thousnds more and depriate like stone.
My son drives a 110 miles a day, his BM cost him £500 a month in petrol. His new BM EV is less than £200. 😊
I live in SW France in the French countryside, lots of hills and very winding lanes. I use my electric car a new version Dacia Spring Expression for shopping, taking the dog out, visiting friends etc. It costs me €6 for a complete fill at home (box charger on house). But normally I follow the 80% rule. It is capable of doing just under 300 km in the summer on one charge, and far less in our winters which are mild until Jan/Feb. It suits my needs perfectly, the nearest petrol station is about 17 km away, so saves me that. Plus Macron extended the scrapage scheme to the end of this year, so I got €5000 plus €2500 for my very old Toyota Yaris Verso diesel. Job done. Very happy with it. Does 99% of what I want, and for the other %1 I would hire.
Hello, may I ask do you have a special EDF contract for electric car ? or just a normal contract
@@MoNsTeRhOaNg Why would the Op need a special contract? France didn't privatise its electric grid, and has capped electric prices at, I believe 2cents per kWh.
In Spain, where I live, we had a cap for a while, but we're back to "Normal" pricing. It's only the UK and Germany that have ridiculous electricity prices, both self inflicted.
@@davidcolin6519 Lol, no. A simple search reveals that the cost of a KwH in France is 25.16 Euro cents. Cheaper than the UK, but still over two times the price you claimed.
I am an owner of an EV. From my experience, if you can't charge at home off peak hours then you shouldn't consider an EV. EV is only suitable for people whose daily journeys only uses 10-20% of the EV's charge capacity with only occasional long trips or best if you have a 2nd ICE car for long trips. I do only 20 miles round trip daily from work and charge with overnight fares. An EV is saving me a lot of money compared to my previous 30 mpg ICE car. For my ICE car, I had to top up 30-40 quid of fuel every week. My EV for daily work trips cost me less than 5 quid each week for overnight charging.
Is your 10-20% based on the 2 hour overnight cheap rate your electricity company gave you? 🤔 I'm currently on a day night rate 33c day, 10.5c night. But it's night rate from midnight to 9am. So I don't have to worry about trying to fit the charge into a 2 hour night rate window. 🤷🏻♂️
My daily EV commute is a 135 miles round trip, so about 55% of the battery. I don't have night rate so pay about 30p/kWh. It costs about 10-12 pounds a day, which i think diesel drivers will think isn't worth it. But the performance and comfort is likely not comparable. The fuel cost of a similarly speced petrol car (diesels don't exist in this segment) would be eyewatering. Anyways, just wanted to point out that long daily commutes are completely doable in a decent EV.
I would urge people to consider likely future costs as well. If EV vehicles ever reach 50% of all vehicles on the road I don't think an off peak cheap electricity rate will exist.
Also as petrol and diesel vehicles reduce the government lose lots of tax (the cost of a litre of petrol or diesel is mostly tax). That lost tax will switch to EV which will make them even less affordable.
Many people don't buy new cars. A used economical petrol makes more sense for many. Who would buy a 10 year old used EV?
For EV to make sense I feel the price of the vehicles needs to reduce dramatically. Many can't fit solar panels on their roof and in winter they might not generate enough electricity for some people (those who do 70 miles a day or more).
I get the sense that the politicians are beginning to realise their aims for phasing out ICE aren't feasible. Not enough public chargers and a public who simply don't want to buy EV. Some German and Japanese car makers are openly looking at alternatives like lab fuels and hydrogen.
@@EwanM11 ahhh I did the 24hour rate myself for the first year and have noticed the savings on the night rate. I agree the comfort and performance is great in an EV 👍
@@GaryBox i expect prices to come down as the supply chains for batteries ramp up to meet demand. China is a much bigger market than the UK and they are further along in their adoption of EVs so we'll benefit from global economies of scale. The battery supply chain was sized for the laptop market, so it needs to grow by a factor of about a thousand. Battery costs have come down a lot in the past 10 years and will continue to decline.
2030 may seem ambitious but a lot can be done in 7 years. The Tesla model 3 didn't even exist 7 years ago and they're everywhere now.
2 notes I'd add as an EV owner myself:
1 that electricity was expensive. Many others are cheaper, esp with subscriptions which you quickly save money on (Fastned Ionity Tesla, etc)
2
When you took the break at the turnaround, THAT is when he should've charged. May very well have saved him the need to stop to charge. It's not uncommon to need to pee, get a drink and or eat at one of these breaks. That time adds up and you might as well charge the car.
And when you think about the other two who had nothing else to plan or to think about. Most people are nowhere near ready to shift to living with EVs.
@@aacmove True, but ideally your car does that for you like in AAOS (Volvo/Polestar and Renault atm) or Teslas
@kimjaeger4399 none of those brands mentioned are affordable to most people. I personally would not pay north of €32k for a car, new or otherwise. And that's with equity in my current car. A mini for €40K with hardly any buttons and what looks like a second-hand panty pad for a dashboard. F that.
@@aacmove sorry if I wasn't clear, those are only the brands I know of that do it now. But more are getting better with route planning. German and Korean brands in particular from what I've seen. In time Ford and Stellantis will join and the tech will trickle down to cheaper cars.
@@aacmove Route planning is a solved issue. This is just a software issue and lots of manufacturers improve their software over time, even for used EVs. Soon every EV will have decent route planning. And even for the remainder: There are apps for that, where you just plug in some details and your destination and the only thing you have to worry about is what kind of fast food you get at that charging spot.
I want to say a big thank you for doing this video & others like it regarding the costs of running Ev's in 2023.
As an Ev owner for a few years now ive seen a big change in the running costs of Ev's sky rocket. But there seems to be a sort of cult around a lot of Ev owners that always shout people like me down who are just trying to be honest around the true costs of Ev's in the UK.
If a lot more people / dealers / manufactures dont start being more honest around Ev's I can see the Ev market totally collapse. People who are new to Ev ownership have a massive shock to the system in the first few months. Some of the major issues they encounter
1.THE QUOTED RANGE they are shocked in most cases that the car they have bought only does 200 miles instead of the 300 miles listed.
2. THE QUOTED CHARGING SPEED they are shocked again when there car takes double or triple the time to charge.
No one tells them that the quoted range is rarely assessable & in some case a 300 mile car , can only really do 200 miles in the real world.
No one also tells them driving at motorway speeds will lose them more miles of range or when the winter come they could lose 30% of there range.
I bumped into a guy at Tesco who was struggling to charge his Mercedes EQC , After helping him download the App for the charger because the card reader wasn't working & showing him what to do. I found out he works in Dubai & the rental company at Heathrow had given him this Ev & said it was cheap to run. But after driving from Heathrow airport to here a total of 128 miles , He was shocked & in a bit of a panic as he got to the charger on 0% & couldn't get it to charge. He had rang the rental company to tell them there was a problem with the car , because when he had collected it , the range said 238 miles. They then told him Ev's aren't to good on motorways.
I told him if you drive at real motorway speeds & have the climate on & generally treat it like a normal car you will lose range & 128 miles is most likely right , As those Mercedes only really do between 180 & 200 miles driving them efficiently. He was not a happy bunny also when the car was saying it would take 2 hours 28 mins to fully recharge on the 50kwh rapid charger & when I also informed him it would cost around £50.00 he said wow that's more than this journey would cost me in a petrol car , I thought Ev's were cheap to run. I said not any more. He said if this is the way it is , he will never buy an Ev. And you can't blame him as I worked out how much petrol he would get for £50.00 at Tesco where we were & it would be 8.3 gallons so that journey cost him the same as a petrol car that only did 15.4 mpg.
People need the whole truth around Ev's
They need to know the real world range of the cars summer , winter , motorways speeds plus the real world charging times & the difference between AC & DC charging plus speeds. And the true cost of using public chargers. Plus the real costs of charging at home. People talk a lot about cheap night rates & one of the most popular ones gives you 4 hours of charging at only £0.10p per kwh , But what they dont tell people is that 99% of home chargers can only supply 28 kwh in that 4 hour window , So if your driving say a i pace & only averaging 2.3 miles per kwh you will only top up your battery by around 64 miles max during that cheap rate. plus no one also mentions you can lose up to 15% of the electric your charge for by the transfer & conversion from AC to DC that your cars does. And that for the other 20 hours of that day which includes all peak times you are paying an extra £0.08p to £0.10p per kwh. So even when not charging your Ev its costing you money.
Then there the purchase prices because Ev's version of a petrol car costs in most cases at least £9,000 to £25,000 more normal people who finance there cars are paying thousands more in interest charges which even if you can save a bit on your day to day running costs far out ways any savings by a few thousand.
Like one of my friends who sticks to the cheap night rate charging & drives according & his Ev is very efficient , he averages 3.8 miles per kwh & he saves around £900 a year based on him doing 10,000 miles. But because his Ev cost £16,000 more than the petrol version he pays a lot more in interest charges & its roughly £1200 a year in extra interest charges. So he isn't really saving a penny.
O and a few myths to ignore Ev dont need servicing or are cheaper to service , Technically they dont need servicing but 99% of dealers require it every 12 months & at least for the first 5 years you might only save pennies as most dealers charge roughly the same to service an Ev compared to a petrol car. Plus Ev are more to insure over there petrol models. Road tax any Ev newer than 2017 April will pay road tax at the starting rate of £180 I think. O and dont forget the cost of a home charger min around £1200
Its a Crazy world in 2023
Thank you, a EV owner that tells the truth so refreshing.
have to say it's still a crazy world in 2024. After being continuously attacked by two EV (Tesla) zealots on FB yesterday for discussing similar things it is indeed freshing to read an EV owner how it happy to discuss the good and bad and bigger picture of EV ownership
I am an EV owner who only drives locally 90% of the time I charge at off peak rates and using solar when nice and sunny .Its the cheapest car to run that I have ever owned .If I go on holiday I suck up the cost as its probably Once or twice a year .The car has lost £10000 in the year I have owned it admittedly, but I plan to keep it for a long time so I am not to worried.
Wow! Charging prices are extortionate in the UK.
I’m living in continental Europe and really expensive fast chargers are less than 65c here. My local 50KW charger is about 17c.
Until the UK gets electricity prices cheaper, electric cars aren’t going to make much sense without a home charger.
Yes big oil is pricing EVs out of existence
Agree! There in the UK electricity prices are quite an abuse!!!
My electric at home is 29p per kW expensive, I stick with petrol car for now
Everything in UK is expensive. When you have a corrupt government, a prick of a London Mayor, and taxes that make sure you'll never get ahead of the game, we have no chance. The rich get richer and the rest of us suffer.
@@See_more....You're not wrong mate!
Why fret over a charging strategy when you could've just charged when you stopped in Birmingham?
Exactly. They’re stoopid.
That's a good point, but it depends whether the destination is somewhere you're able to charge
Probably wanted to try and make the whole journey without having to charge, but had the contingency in place in case
If you'd charged up the phev and left it on hybrid/auto mode, instead of seeing how far it would go on battery alone, the fuel cost result would have been very different. There was no need either to fully charged the EV on the return journey.
Did you decide the outcome you wanted to present before you actually did the test?
Electric cars pollute more than petrol cars & are less recyclable, try in the cold or hot weather , the figures will be far worse, electric vehicles are a con !
We run a fully electric car and a petrol car. We find for day to day running, work, and back etc, the electric car is much cheaper, but we have given up on using the electric for long journeys. The cost and inconvenience of public charging and finding chargers that are faulty has put us off.
We drove our Tesla from South Florida to Atlanta. What should have be. 10 hour trip. Turned into 16 hours. Filled with anxiety
Can you also take into account purchase price, maintainance costs and depreciation?
Strangely since 2023 I can do my first 250+ miles in my EV for £6. I pay 7.5p per kW when charging (in the day as well thanks to octopus intelligent).
I wonder if this video is designed to make us argue about reality when they're skewing results?
It'll be more accurate driving from the UK to Greece and back, but most of us don't do that trip? Consider if I only charge at home & drive 200 miles per day (£5), that's 73k miles PA. £1825 PA. Compare against a petrol Kona 2L TGDi.
Mileage: 73,000 mile(s)
Fuel type: Unleaded
Fuel price used for this calculation: 143.54 pence per litre
Mpg used for this calculation: 32.80 MPG
Total fuel cost: £14435.10
I think people need to consider their actual driving, not fictitious driving.
Toatally agree
You do need to offset the cheap rate with the increased rate for non-off peak electricity that you use. You'll find that the saving is not what you think. I've done my maths, and concluded not to go for Octopus, but use slow charging combined with solar panels and off peak charging with another supplier. Octopus is not so silly as to give you something for nothing.
Mate, you don't have to justify why you bought your EV. It's totally your choice and if it works for you then fair play. But for me the extra cost of a new EV compared to the miles I travel it would end up costing me. Plus the depreciation of the EV is so high that you have to factor that in. As well as the devastating effect the mining and production of the EV has on the environment I just can't buy into this "green energy" mullarkey. Many traders won't buy EV's due to them not making enough money on the secondhand market. And while many people are saying "no, my EV is worth £XX when selling" that's a trade in price against a new EV. The actual value of just selling them is much lower because people aren't buying them. Your servicing costs should be much cheaper but for some reason they're not. My friend's Renault Zoe first service was nearly £500. Why???? I have two cars, one classic and a 3.0 TDi Audi. Both of those combined are still cheaper for me to run than one EV. (And the classic is appreciating not depreciating.) But that's just my personal situation. Petrol here is currently 137.9 and diesel 139.9.
@@See_more.... As I said, I bought a cheap second hand EV for £11,000 because we need two cars for the family. I chose an EV simply because it is very cheap to run with my solar panels and off-peak charging only. As for servicing, it cost me £100 to £150! Your friend had been fleeced by Renault!
I'm so glad to see other ACTUAL EV DRIVERS also telling the truth behind this grossly misleading video.
I think the big issue with EV running costs are the difference between home and rapid charging. I have one on order and I probably do South Coast to Birmingham once a month. I will be able to charge at home for 7.5p per kWhr and at work for 11p, which makes the journey cost £8.33 for 280 miles
Don't forget that the cost of using public rapid chargers can be reduced by subscribing to the network you might use the most. The Ionity Passport for example, gets you around 30p per kwh off the cost of using their rapid and ultra rapid chargers. Other networks have their own subscription schemes too.....
Is Shell big oil, Ionity owned by big oil trying to make EVs uncompetitive only in the UK
Yes, this is horseshit. Why would you charge 100% when you could just charge enough for the trip home and then use your cheap home rate?
Also how often would you need to make a 280 mile journey?
I could do that trip for £20 in my much cheaper small petrol BHEV. Would never be cost effective to go all electric at that and all the hassle that comes with it. 2 mins max and I'm refilled for another circa 600 miles.
That’s works out perfect for you. Sadly, many ev owners are paying a lot more. It would seem electricity prices have tripled, but fuel has actually come down narrowing the gap.
I'm a petrol and diesel car owner (at the moment) and while the test is useful and has it's merits its also fairly inaccurate to the majority of EV drivers. Home charging can be had for as little as 7.5p per KWH which is 4x cheaper than the figures used in the test and would have made the city drive cost just 79p. The EV driver also put more electricity than he needed to on the public charger so again, there could have been less at £0.75p per KWH and more at 7.5p per KWH.
Spot on. He only needed 25kWh at the rapid to complete the trip.
That of course also would have made his stop a lot quicker , (which was a complaint in the clip) .. basically by the time he had gone in for a wee stop and grabbed a drink it would have been ready to go again.
I assume you did not calculate the cost of installing a home charger. Which the HEV would not have.
@@batira You can often get a free home charger when switching to a EV friendly provider
@@mattstambach5401 In which country? :)
As mentioned above the charge at home rate is 7.5p per kh, the Nero would only have only needed a small top up at a rapid charger, therefore the EV cost would be a quarter of the cost quoted. My EV would have done the Mway journey on less than a full home charge and cost less than £6.00. While not everyone can charge at home, most EV drivers do and use an EV tarrif. In 18 months with my current EV I have only used public chargers about a dozen times for my mostly Mway driving. As a result I find the reporting less than honest.
Wait til it needs a new battery. Hope you are saving up cause it will be around£8000.
@@Anonymous-ib8sono he will not need a new battery,he will sell the car a lot sooner negating all the green thing by having a new car
Their reporting was quite transparent. Very useful even if you don’t like the results!
@@Anonymous-ib8sothe average lifetime of the battery will be around 180k miles, by which point most cars are dust.
If you believe that then you can plait fog. Utter nonsense@@raffiefoxmew3691
I’m the owner of a full ev in Ireland. Regularly have to drive from Dublin to Galway. Before i used a Diesel and at €1.60ltr it would equate to around €35 for a return trip, not including tolls. I charge over night to full capacity for these trips it costs €9:38 on the nighttime saver charger plan. Tolls are reduced for EVs 50% less at peak times 75% less off peak. The long range vehicles are expensive but savings can be made.
Do you have to then charge in Galway to get back to Dublin? Or can do return trip on one full charge?
@@snoopycharlie8718 That was also my question when I read this too. It is a 250mile round trip. There still aren't that many affordable EV's with that range and lets be honest it doesn't just stop with the round trip does it... there's always some deviating from the route and some running around when you get there... Even if the car can actually deliver 280-300 mile range, thats going to be an anxious last part of the journey, with the heater or AC turned off LOL
@@TheComputec Exactly 😅
@@TheComputec when I drive to Leeds, I plug the car overnight and it is fully charged to go back home. Sometimes , I stop for 10 min comfort break on the way adding 70-150 miles in that time in my 'tank' especially when with kids.
@@yuriy81uk average out the additional cost of buying an EV over an equivalent ICE car over the typical three year ownership cycle and then work out how much money it has saved you
I have a company car so I log all my miles. I have just changed from an ICE to an EV.
My EV costs £160 a month less than the ICE for the same mileage and that’s using a standard electricity tariff. It would be cheaper if I used an EV tariff @ 7.5p per KW.
As it’s a company car I save about £170 a month in tax vs the last ICE car too.
It is a more expensive car to buy though.
Also i get 340miles real world range from my car, so it could have done that journey in one charge.
Switch to Octopus Intelligent. It costs 7.5p per kwh now, and the daytime rate has been reduced to 30p per kwh.....
depends on your usage pattern but I WFH and agile is far much better, currently only 16p/kwh @@Brian-om2hh
If you left with a fully charge battery, how come you only charged 34.5kWh at home when the battery is 68kWh?This tests makes no sense whatsoever. Anyone sane would fully charge at home on an EV tariff which would cost £5.10 for the 68kWh and put the bare minimum in at the services which would be 18 kWh giving a total cost £19.32; making it the cheapest!
You should also include the difference in insurance groups. The hybrid is 20-21*, the PHEV is 23 and the EV is 28-29*. Depending on your age that could make quite a difference per year. (* Dependent on trim level)
I was about to make this point! I know someone with a Tesla model Y who's in his forties and pays £1400 a year to insure whereas I pay less than half of that for a CLS63 at 30. I don't know whether it would be as extreme on a Kia niro but definitely worth considering! The other item is tyres which are generally much more expensive for EV tyres. On the flip side maintenance and servicing is cheaper for the EV!
The elephant in the room is always the purchase price and how long it will take to get that payment back....
To be fair a 13 year old Toyota Prius would return over 60 mpg on that run and would only set you back £4k for a good one 👍
The point of this test was a direct EV / PHEV / petrol-only comparison - hence they picked three otherwise identical cars. It wasn’t a model-vs-model comparison. Enjoy your 13 year old Prius! ❤
To be fair, the whole f*cking POINT is to stop burning f*cking FOSSIL FUELS.
The world is literally starting to roast itself in its own fossil fuels and you guys are worried about the cost of running electric cars because your own government, ably supported by "Journalists" like this WANT you to keep burning those fossil fuels.
There is one BIG difference between a stramlined Prius and a metal box like a KIA. The amount of air you have to move over. And that you pay.
Let's enjoy our Prii.
Sadly new Prius not being sold in the UK, but my 18 year old one took me to Leeds and back last weekend, still got 58.6mpg on the journey. I’ll be sorry when it finally bites the dust.
@@alexwhite2791 I really don't see that as being particularly spectacular. My Clio diesel from 2007 gets 58,9 mpg all the time, and that would be better on a long run.
I thought I would weigh in here with some figures. 2 Years ago I switched from the 2.2l Diesel Kia Sorento to the new Kia Sorento PHEV (13.5kWh battery with 1.6l Petrol)
In the Diesel car, we were doing an average of 60.8 miles a day with an average running cost of 18.8p/mile. It is also important to note that the average price of diesel when I had the car was £1.21/L compared to around £1.40 today.
In comparison, with the PHEV we are doing an average of 72.6 miles a day with an average running cost of Petrol 8p/mile and Electric 3.7p/mile for a combined 11.7p/mile.
Straight away you can see the saving in the Diesel for 1851miles/month it was costing us £354.94. In the PHEV for a greater 2209miles/month it is only costing us about £250/month.
Not to mention that after nearly 50,000 miles in the PHEV we have only gone through one set of tires and are still to need to have the Break pads replacing. In the diesel we must have gone through 3 or 4 sets of Pads and the same tires.
Of course there are a lot of Caveats in this, for starters we are on a variable tariff so we only pay around 6.5p/kWh between 12:00 and 05:00. Due to the low EV range, we still charge outside of this, however our average cost/kW is still 15p/kWh. (This tariff ends this month at which point we will switch to Octopus Intelligent where I estimate our bill will increase by around 15% overall)
The majority of EV owners who can charge at home will get a variable tariff as it will drastically reduce costs. As we anything each use car as a best case scenario and each will be best depending on how you use it. For us, the PHEV has been great, we would have gone EV but at the time there wasn't a reasonable full BEV 7 seat car that suited our needs. We have since just ordered the Kia EV9 which should arrive in January fingers crossed. Based on my calculations, I should be able to reduce the charging costs to around £50 in this car.
Instavolt is among the most expensive charging network and I would only use this in an emergency. My local Tesla Supercharge is open to other EV's and is only 51p/kWh (58p peak) so far more reasonable. The difference between EV and Petrol is the range of prices, you can shop around different chargers to get a better deal, with Petrol, the difference is only a few pence/l so it's barely worth it.
Yes the car's are more expensive but with other savings such as tax and running cost's, this makes up a lot of the difference. But not all, I just like my gadgets lol
wow u gone through 3 to 4 sets of pads and tires. Did u go drag racing with that thing? It takes a couple of years to replace a set of tires and brake pads. Lol
Not really realistic on the long run to add the whole charge of the Instavolt KWH if they weren't used on that journey.. that's like adding the cost of a full tank of petrol even if the fuel was unused - not really comparing apples with apples..
Anything to try to get the EV to get near top parity with a IC... keep trying.
Using the price cap is basically like only using motorway services for petrol
You have a choice with a 650 mile diesel of where you buy your fuel ( cheap supermarkets ) With a short range EV you generally can't on a long run and are caught by the motorway vultures.
The use of 30p per kWh for home charging is not sensible. Anyone who owns a PHEV or EV and can charge at home should have a EV electricity rate. I have had my Tesla Model Y for a year, done about 12000 miles around 10500 on home charging (7.5p), about 500 on the public network (~75p) and about 1000 miles on Tesla's Supercharger network (~40p). My energy usage has cost me less than £700 for a year's driving, it about £2k less that my previous petrol ICE car. My previous ICE car was a lot cheaper than my Tesla, so I'm still out of pocket, but very happy nonetheless.
Is motorway service petrol 4 times more expensive than elsewhere?
Night rate electricity is less than half the price.
@@davidm7237 7.5p compared to 30p is actually a quarter of the price. Imagine paying 100p per litre of petrol at a motorway services compared to 25p elsewhere, that's the difference and that's the margin that this video gets it wrong. It's either woefully uniformed or it's designed to maliciously manipulate their viewers.
This uses the price cap for charging whereas most people who invest in an electric car will be paying 10p per kWh on an off peak charge rate. This alters the numbers significantly for the around town driving/short commute, which if is a majority of your use changes the value proposition significantly for the phev and the ev. You should also factor in the savings on servicing or lack of.
Dont forget to factor in the extra cost of electricity during the day if your getting cheap night rate
@@Markcain268 to make the numbers easier I used 10p as the OVO anytime tariff which doesn't increase your day rate. As opposed to 7.5 with octopus which does.
Don't forget to also factor in the cost increase of purchasing an electric car over the equivalent ICE version....
@@lenzilf1 yep, £500 for cheap ice, £5k for the cheapest ev
@@Markcain26830 p in the day too plus you can use appliances over night on the cheap rate so other savings there!
Interesting to see some EV evangelists talking about cheap night rate electricity as if that makes everything OK. The higher purchase price and higher depreciation are a significant factor in cost. Plus the range anxiety and time wasted at public charging stations means EVs have a long way to go before becoming the first choice for many people. No wonder they are having to force them on us.
How would you come to the assumption that electrcars have higher depreciation that ice cars? Theres plenty of examples where those opposite is the case. I bet a high milage niro ev is a lot more expensive that the phev/hev variants…
Range anxiety is only an issue for those who don’t own an EV. For short trips it’s a non issue and for long trips you need a break every 2-3 hours anyway. It’s easy to do that at a charging station, just like you would do with your petrol car.
And EV owners generally don’t waste time charging,, since they do it at night at home or close to home.
Personally, I swapped both my cars for EVs. Much more comfortable, and cost effective.
@giovannialtamore seriously? EV owners don't have range anxiety but ICE owners do? Behave.
@@benzo5799one example of a Taycan owner who has had his £120k car for 2 years has been quoted £51k to sell it. I would say that's serious depreciation. I have a Civic ehev, best of both worlds.
@@artovnoyes8479 ICE owners *think* that range is an issue. Once you have an EV you will understand that it is mostly a non issue.
That's insane how you managed to make the EV cost so much to do a 278 mile trip!
True. I drive a Zoe at half the cost of a petrol Clio/Polo/... And 10% city miles and 90% motorway miles in this test are not very realistic either.
In my Niro EV I do a 17 mile commute each way every day. It’s a mixture of dual carriageway, city driving, and hilly A and B roads in the countryside. I’ve never had a journey as low as 3.1mi/kWh - my average in the car per recharge is normally 4.1 to 4.3. On top of that he’s charging at normal household rates, not an EV tariff, and he’s also charging at a public charger via contactless, at its highest rate. That EV has an authentication card (that you have to make an account for and activate) that gets public charging at heavy discounts on certain networks. Also… he actually says in the video that he drove much further on the way back!!! The whole video felt like they were going out of their way to make the EV more expensive.
Why charge only what you need to at 75p/kWh when you can charge to full just for the hell of it!
The editor is Steve Huntingford. Anti-ev brigade appears on GB News looking for old fogies to support his agenda. :/
In reality an electric car is far more expensive. It costs more to buy, and the life expectancy is half of a petrol or hybrid. Batteries for a full electric car last on average ten years, at which point in reality makes an older electric car worthless. Hydrogen was always the way forward, especially as a full electric car leaves an enormous carbon footprint and helps hand over even more control to the country that produces nearly all the batteries, CHINA.
Iv just got the new Vw Touareg R hybrid and I am getting 68mpg on hybrid mode on mixed trips
I came from a tesla and won’t be going back. Good video 👍
Ive owned a KIa EV for 9 months now and have used a public charger half a dozen times during my 8000 miles of use, the cost to charge at home is 7.5p which means i can do a 100 miles journey for about £2.00
Yh enjoy these good times, until more people join EVs and the government start putting tax etc on the electricity and when the grid gets crowded. Its cheap now bc not many got evs but when more and more moves to evs, the government loses tax money on fuel which they would need to get from electricity.
@@mr.darknight416I think a road tax (based on vehicle weight) would work better than just relying on petrol tax.
Not 100% guarantee it will actually do those 100 miles
@@Alexperrin98 You'd struggle to get less than 100 miles out of a ~280 mile range EV, even if the weather conditions are terrible.
Here in the Netherlands you pay road tax based on the weight of the vehicle and the type of fuel and extra tax on petrol.
plus additional purchase tax when purchasing a new car.😳@@paulgoudfrooij6561
My apologies if this has been mentioned before. To realistically make a financial comparison among the three types, the maintenance costs and insurance costs should also be included. I believe that over time and mileage, the EV will prove to be the least expensive to run. I have a 2014 Chevy Volt that currently has 176 + thousand miles on the odometer. It still has the original brake linings and rotors (regeneration is cost effective, too). My total cost per mile to run this car has been $0.083US. That includes gasoline costs, electricity costs, maintenance costs (two additional sets of tires, 8 oil and filter changes, coolant changes, air filters, windshield wipers) and insurance costs. My lifetime miles per kWh is 4.3 and my lifetime mpg is 40.3. The Volt is a plug-in hybrid.
In the UK (wetter climate) brake rotors often have to be replaced before they’re worn, due to pitting (caused by corrosion) to the braking surface.
Also if you want to compare that way. How come you don't include life cycle cost. The cost to extract rare earth materials from the ground and cost of disposing harmful chemical materials? Purchase price is one thing, but u don't realise new EVs are heavily subsidised by government in all countries especially in China.
Consumer Reports released their annual car reliability survey on EV's from the past 3 model years. EV's had 79 percent more problems than conventional cars based on owner responses from more than 330,000 vehicles. Some of the most common problems EV owners reported are issues with electric drive motors, charging system, and EV batteries. Those are all big cost items. I've run across a few videos on CZcams recently of EVs that had batteries fail to the point the entire battery needed replacing according to the dealership. Worst example was in Canada where a Hyundai dealership wanted just over $50'000 CAD to replace the battery in a 2017 Ioniq. That one made it to mainstream news. If there are parts that cost 3/4 of the entire cost of the vehicle that is a major issue for me moving to an EV.
The article is called "Electric Vehicles Are Less Reliable Than Conventional Cars" if anyone want to look it up.
@@GazzaDazzle Yeah that's true. To get the complete cost everything needs to be taken into account not only just expected operating maintenance. The issue is EV laws and regulations are still being figured out. The latest is Government procedures in some areas now state a damaged EV should be quarantined 15 meters from anything else due to the battery fire risk even if it was a minor accident. Storage at a repair centers/parking costs will be a lot given the space that would take. Its possible insurance wont cover some of this extra cost. I've heard that some people dont want EV's in parking garages mainly due to the fire risk when charging unattended and being in a confined space with fire hot enough to melt concrete and create structural damage. I was surprised to hear EV fires are around 1500C/2732F temperature. Electricity costs are also going up everywhere. EVs may cost a lot more in some areas to charge even from home in future. I think it will be some years before we see the true cost of owning an EV. I'm staying away from owning one for now.
Like many comments point this out, if you own an EV, you are highly unlikely to pay the market cap price of 30p per kWh when home charging, instead you will charge it off peak which with Octopus energy is 7.5p per kWh. Yes we use our car on longer journeys as well so we are occasionally using public chargers, also we always shop around when looking for public chargers, prices vary a lot! So I personally find this review highly misleading, despite the fact I really like this Chanel.
For additional insight, we do around 12k miles per year and charge about 95% of that at at home, our total monthly electricity bill which includes home usage, is around £120 a month.
To get the special overnight rates, you need to be on a non standard tariff. That means the capped rates don't apply and you have to pay around double the normal rate for all of you day time use, so you should take that extra cost into account.
@@PaulWingfieldNah, my e7 tariff is a few p/kWh more in the day but less than half for 7h. Double the normal rate is a bad deal if not fiction.
3 mins into the video and already I have a gripe. Why stop at Banbury and charge to 100%??
If you plugged in for 15 minutes while you stopped in Birmingham for a coffee, there would have been no need to stop at Banbury.
This is such a rookie mistake, thankfully you didn't go to 100%.
You could have all arrived back at the same time.
If you charged at home, not all can, a full charge would cost £5. A quick charge in Birmingham would be at most £10 which means a total of £15.
Add another £5 at the very most for the next day and you have a total of £25 at most.
Why use the max UK electric home price??? Absolutely no one I know with an electric car pays 30p per kilowatt to top up their car at home. This is nonsense.
I got this impression. I’m just starting to research an efficient switch to electric (and keep a tasty little classic on the side) and even I know that these rates are a joke. These are motoring journalists with experience running electric long-termers, they know this. Maybe it’s a test designed to appreciable to a particular, ie lazy, audience.
@@Whatshisname346unfortunately this really is extremely lazy journalism. The moment the young guy sighed when he realised he had the EV, I knew this was going to be a load of bollox.
This is unfortunately misinformation.
Please include a diesel for reference next time
My BMW X1 2.0 diesel gets 42mpg.
I have had an EV for 3 years now both the first the ENiro now The Niro EV both great cars. I manly charge at home at 7.5p per KW I would say 95% of my miles are done from home charging. The rest being done on longer trips and only using public charging to top up enough to get me home.
Depending on your annual mileage you can save several hundred pounds a year on fuel costs also the costs of services.
which one you have?
@@xeniosaias Nero EV 4
I’d love to know if there is a difference in the monthly insurance cost for the three cars - that might tilt the balance away from the electric vehicles.
Im in the US so it may not compare to UK and the cars arent similar, but I have a 2011 Silverado which I pay $390 for annually for 3000 miles coverage and a 2023 Bolt EUV which I pay $530 annually for 9,500 miles coverage.
The Journey to Birmingham and back, would have cost £6 in my EV.
Which car do you have?
@@ExclamationMarx polestar 2
@@stephenmumford9629 A very good looking car. I've seen a lot of them around England
@@stephenmumford9629 Hope you bought it second hand. 24 month old ones around 50% of new costs
@@FirstLast-rh9jw leased
I am shocked by the results. I am shocked how you managed to get such terrible efficiency from the BEV and why you didn't talk about:
Cheap off peak electricity prices
Zero road tax
Reduced cost of serving
Cheap EVs like the MG4
Manipulated figures is the answer
Talk about all of these things then you also need to discuss the elephant in the room when it comes to EVs - depreciation.
Depreciation for EVs is quite shocking at the moment and will add significantly to the overall cost of running such a car.
Not everyone has access to cheap off-peak electricity prices in the UK, the servicing isn't reduced to a significant amount. MG4 is a cracking car though. My aunt has this Niro PHEV and hasn't visited a petrol station since she got it - she does really short journeys but likes the thought of being able to do a longer journey every now and then if she needs it.
Doesn't the zero road tax for evs end next year?
@@spectralcav there’s a clue there ‘at the moment’. I bought new 6 months ago and dealers were selling nearly new ones for not much off list price due to the shortages. We also sold my wife’s petrol mini back to mini for a ridiculous price. There has been a correction but I’d be fairly confident it will level off over time.
I'm very fortunate. I have solar energy at home and that would change the figures on EV and PHEV quite a bit. After doing some sums of my own the PHEV works out better for me personally, Over 80% of our driving is very local , (20miles round trip) and I now have a new charge unit that can draw from the solar if charging in daytime instead of grid. So some of my electricity is free. And petrol engine gets used on the rare trips of 40 miles+. It's clear each person needs to crunch their own numbers based on individual use.
I wonder if you crunch TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) including servicing whether the numbers on a pure EV might work out better for you over, say 5 years, of motoring. If it's rare you do over 40+ miles then you are lugging a heavy petrol motor around a lot of the time. Love to have solar myself BTW ;-)
Solar is the go if you plan to own an EV. After 55000kms, I have spent less than 400AUD on ‘fuel’ and maintenance on my EV since buying in Jan 2020. And that included a 4000km road trip from east coast to West Coast Australis where I now live. Sunlight is free and abundant in WA. (I used to drive Mercedes., AMG and BMW in the past, but would never buy anything other than electric now).The driving experience on a trip is so much more relaxing, safer too as passing a 53mtr long road train is quicker than the AMG!
Interestingly, I just did a similar journey in my 530d. 51.8 mpg, so just under £40. But I still had over 300 miles in the tank. And the ability to get to 60 in less than six seconds if I choose. And it'll return the same economy in the winter. Oh, and I live in a flat, so EVs are about as much use to me as a chocolate teapot.
lol me too i have a 3.0l d 330bhp jag xfs and a 500+ mile tank and its more fun than a ev and i can fill up anywhere in 5 min
Not a BMW 530d I hope, once you factor in maintaining it, a private jet would be cheaper.
Why did the BEV have to charge up so much to just get back to the start point? The other cars didn't top up their tanks when they got back. So confused how this was comparable.
its not, they have an agenda
Because the EV's range was less than the overall journey, but, the EV driver could have done it better, and he admits this himself - when they went for lunch in Birmingham, both the PHEV and EV driver should have found somewhere to plug in while they ate, and if the EV driver still needed some juice on the way back, he should have only put in just enough to get back, he put in at least twice what he needed to, costing him lots of time and money.
Ps. I forgot to mention the £8000 costt difference between the hev and EV. Equivelent of £51 per week over three years. Surely isn't that a free tank of petrol every week for the hev.
Those annual service soon build up over time. Change the fan belt fill up the oil etc etc. Live in the real world.
@@tagware And increased tire and wear shouldn't be forgotten from fat lardy EV's.
@@tagware £499 for five years servicing.
I love my daily 50 el. Km in my PHEV
I was shocked (no pun intended) to see that your charging cost at home was so high. The general public here in Australia is complaining about our high energy costs but the home charging cost you quoted in the story is over twice the price per KWh we are paying in Australia! 😮
Our energy costs are almost uniquely high in this country, although since the video was made they have started to fall. However, it looks like he was charging on his normal home energy tariff, whereas most energy companies offer an EV tariff that will charge the car far cheaper, with the best being a firm called Octopus that does it at literally a quarter of the price he quoted.
Same as New Zealand. The charging cost used here is twice my day rate and almost four times my night rate. In addition, my account with Genesis Energy means I get the same rate at any Chargenet station in the country.
Not really a fair test i think
It would be good to see someone do an article on how to get the best from your EV. There are lots of people now who are experienced EV owners and their learnings can really help new EV owners. Often, Dealers aren't actually helping new EV owners. This affects their enjoyment of their new car.
EVs charged at home are very cheap to run. At charging stations you pay much more. Plus you save time as charge is always full in the morning.
Having an EV affects their enjoyment of their new car.
One could have went at 55 mph along the A roads and coast n regen into roundabout. That’s 6 kms rolling or regen, distance
Get a home charger and use one pedal driving.
He best way to use your EV is take it to a dealer and swap it for a diesel. Life is to short to waste it waiting for you milk float to charge
Charge to 100%? That's a poor charging strategy for any EV, because charging generally slows considerably over 80%. Better to fill to 80% and do more stops.
The previous comments are spot on about charging at home on a cheap rate and I think this was a point that should have been given more prominence in the video. Several suppliers offer EV tariffs. We bought a three year old i3s recently and so far it has had one third of the running costs for “fuel” than our previous similarly sized car. Also there are lots of memberships that give discounts on charging that are worth looking at.
Never go anywhere then?
@@Anonymous-ib8so Be quiet
Cheap overnight tariffs are non standard, so not at capped rates. During the day their rates are typically double the normal tariff, making your heating, cooking, and everything else twice the normal cost. So good luck with that.
An interesting comparison for sure, although I wouldn't have thought many people buying an EV would just charge on a standard home rate. The vast majority will surely charge on a cheap overnight tariff, which swings the running cost easily back in the EVs favor.
Completely agree. These guys completely missed the point. They made all the rookie mistakes instead of telling people how you drive and charge an EV to get the savings.
@@tomm5936I think your taking your knowledge about driving an EV and saving on cost for granted. Most ppl are not gonna know all the details about maximizing cost per watt. If they have to go far and are unable to reach home on a single charge. they will be happy to use a public fast charger and will wait for a bit of extra charge to avoid having more range anxiety so they can reach home safely. Your knowledge puts you in a much small pool of EV drivers that can drive far distances without putting you at such a high expense.
@@LimitGTX it is true I look at it with the knowledge I have. I just feel these guys seem to on purpose do this the wrong way. I admit I am an EV fan and I wish they would at least try to do this the way an EV driver would. I know some people buy an EV without having a clue about how to optimize it and would do stupid things like this. I just wish the media would try to educate people instead of making themselves look stupid.
I disagree with the home change at 30p. I can do full charge at 9.5p per kWh giving me well over 200 miles and it cost about £7. Public charging is expensive but like said it was not necessary to put a full or almost full charge for a remaining 80 miles. There is a learning curve with EV driving which one still try figure out, but if your smart you will reap the benefits
9.5p per kwh? Oooh, that's pricey. Octopus Intelligent recently reduced it's price to 7.5p per kwh.....
@@Brian-om2hh many EV drivers cannot get IO, tell Octopus to hurry up and add support for the Zappi
@@Brian-om2hh octopus go my pod point home charger doesn’t support intelligent
@@rickmoznor my pod-point.
It does support lots of EVs though
Take depreciation into account and with an EV, you are burning money faster than throwing your wallet on the fire. That is if you can find a buyer to take your battery degraded EV off you at all. They are standing on dealer forecourts for weeks at a time, some dealers will not even stock them now after being burnt so badly.
On the long run more power than required was put into the ev … so there should be a reduction in the cost of that trip … it doesn’t make sense / surely this is misrepresentative ? & no, I don’t have an ev
Very good video, just could be possibly to know comparing all three a cars,how much produce CO to make this car's.
I drive a 2022 Toyota RAV4 HEV and on the motorway it will return an easy 56mpg, driving in slow city traffic it returns at least 66mpg (a journey lasting just over an hour for a distance of 26 miles) - I have seen 108mpg for shorter distances in stop start traffic.
It would have been great if you had compared it to the cheapest overnight EV tariffs available, some are 7.5p/kWh overnight! Also if you can have solar panels on your house you can really bring the costs down long term!
That doesn't solve the points being made about those who cannot charge at home. Are you suggesting that only those with a driveway will be able to afford an electric vehicle. I live in a Town (Goole) with one of the highest council taxes in the whole of the UK far more than many London Boroughs where billions of UK tax payers money is being spent on transport infrastructure and according to my local MP or should I say local dimwit we pay more because there is a far bigger precentage of low cost housing i.e. many terraced streets that are usually filled with cars all day and night so where would they charge their cars?
Also when does it become cheaper to drive an EV after the huge cost of buying an EV compared to ICE cars and also facturing the cost of having solar panels fitted?
@@oorya1780 the government needs to do more to make elective cars a better solution for everyone. The point I make is that the numbers used in the video are flawed because anyone who can charge at home would charge at far cheaper rates than they quoted. Cheap overnight electricity tarrifs weren't even mentioned by them
Then also include extra cost of normal household electricity at higher rate. £600 per year for us.
Except you would have run out of charge!! DOH you EVers are dumb
but you have to pay the solar panels too
And what is completely, completely constantly ignored, is all those living in flats, apartments, townhouses, etc., etc., with no ability to charge at home, and thus no other option but use the outrageously expensive public charging points. So again, if you are fortunate enough to own a nice house with off-street parking - well done, life has rewarded you again. But if you are young and/or financially less well off that you live in a property with no off street parking, YOU once again, are screwed with a higher expense to the benefit of those more well off. An absolute disgrace - utterly shameful.
Of course this does not apply to every flat or apartment building but, most apartment buildings provide you to a personal parking spot where you could put a charging dock. And most flats also have some charging stations for the whole building, which is of course worse than an own charging dock but better than having none at all.
@j800q I think you'll find most flats don't have charging facilities, there is no incentive for land Lords to install them, my own land lord refused when I had my EV and had no plans to. Also only one apartment block out of the 3 I have lived in had specific parking for my flat... EV for regular folk is unsustainable hence I am going back to PHEV, would go fully petrol/diesel but company car tax is a joke.
Good video. For me, I went PHEV. Covers my commute, avoids range anxiety for longer trips, and avoids bigger replacement costs for the battery.
Thank you for doing real life test driving and cost break down. I wish someone would do something like this for the US. Our electricity and gas prices vary quite a bit from state to state though so it may be harder to do.
A basic rule of thumb to compare them, take your kWh price and multiply by 9.5 to compare to US Gallon prices, or 2.5 to compare to per litre prices.
@@brushlessmotoring
Well 1kwh is about 0.11-0.14usd. One gallon is around. $3.15 at the moment.
My answer to the final question: I will wait for BEVs to drop the price as all products' life cycles do.
Hey guys,
Good video overall, but it feels like you didn't really give much thought to the EV driving. If that was intentional, that's fine, but it should be acknowledged in some way. 3 things that really didn't sit well with me in order of importance to your test, from most important to least important:
1. The efficiency of the e-Niro in town was worse than on the motorway. That is close to impossible, save for some extreme weather conditions, which didn't seem to be the case. Which leads me to believe that your calculations must have been off a significant amount.
2. The pricing for electricity. You used a worse case scenario for electricity pricing (most expensive public charging, and highest possible home rate). Mentioning in passing that it could have been better does not really help educate the people. I believe a better approach would be a realistic approach, where the driver has spent a couple of hours looking into what would work best, not for this one journey, but overall. After all, you would accumulate a lot of experience over time.
3. Staying on the self-proclaimed, extremely expensive charger for way longer than needed in order to have a safe-margin charge. This adds to your inconvenience, the price hike, as well as potentially inconvenience other EV drivers.
I really liked the concept of this test, and I would really like to see you guys do it justice. Either doing it again with 3 cars of the same family or 3 similar cars trying to match the price tags instead.
Cheers!
No, they didn't use the worst case scenario for EV. Worst case would be only public charging.
So why did you not charge while you were in Birmingham getting your coffee probably would have got the change required for the return journey in that 15 to 20mins?
A lot of comments are saying that the comparison is invalid because they aren't taking into account special ev charging tariffs for home charging. These comments make a valid point, but the review is still relevant for a couple of reasons:
A *lot* of people cannot charge at home because they don't have a driveway or allocated parking space with a charging point.
The price per kWh you pay at service stations is ridiculous. This needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
I can’t charge at home and I knew that, when I put my name down for a first gen Niro EV 64kWh. Which after personal testing, would have given 2.8-3.1mi avg. per kWh, (summer) in hilly Wales. However, circumstance change and the Kia dealership gouging the market by upping the price by over £8,000 forced cancellation and I carried on with the Mondeo 2L, which easily did 38-42mpg avg. in hilly Wales; and had a £295 VED. I now drive a Polo 1.2L, which does 51mpg avg. year round; and has a £20 VED.
I really looked forward to owning an EV. But with the quadrupling of public charging rates and the charging networks being no more reliable than four years ago, plus the planned near £190 VED for EVs. I’m now so glad I’m not an EV owner.
I think the main takeaway from the video should be that in most normal use cases an EV is cheaper to run. If you're charging at home and commuting to work the chances are your EV will get you there and back without any need for public charging which is stupidly expensive. The PHEV being the worst is no surprise, I had work colleagues that only got 2 miles per kWh in their PHEVs, so they had very poor efficiency in electric mode and of course with the battery weight also had worse MPG while running the engine, pretty pointless unless you have solar or very cheap electricity rates to offset the inefficiencies.
This weekend I drove to Nottingham and back from Pembroke. £110 in charging costs. I rarely use public charging I'm lucky, I have solar etc. EV is not a viable option if using public charging and this needs to change!
I have had my Niro EV since June and have averaged 4.5mi per kWh so far. If the test had not been intended to make the EV lose (which it did seem to be) the EV could have just about made the Birmingham trip without charging or just a few minutes to give some reserve. Overnight charging tariff is 7.5p per kWh. Best case scenario for the EV based on my use case and experience of the Niro EV would have been just over £5 for overnight charging assuming i made it home from Birmingham (which i would have done at 4.5m per kWh.) it all comes down to use case in the end. My specific use case is that i have a sal-sac lease through work and pay effectivly £100 per week including charging, at home with the provided Zappi, servicing, insurance, tyres, breakdown etc. Given the BiK rates on sal-sac, the EV was by far the best choice and I am vey happy with my costs to run a brand new car with no suprise costs.
You are correct, this test had a clear objective and they made everythign worst case scenario for the EV.
Conveniently ignore congestion tax, pick the most expensive charger, ridiculous price for home charging, not picking a ground up EV.
IGNORING MAINTENANCE COSTS,...
This channel has a history of being unfair towards BEV's, they seem to not change.
I have an EV, it is a 2016 Zoe so I don't do huge amount of miles on it, and I pay 30p/kWh. The Octopus EV tariff does not work for everyone (you pay more at peak time to offset lower off peak) and 30p/kwh isn't a crazy price. Of course, once electricity prices drop - and they will, considering that the price more than doubled from 14p to 30p in just over two years - it will be once again be considerably cheaper to run EVs. In addition, you can bet that fuel duty, which had been frozen for 6-7 years, will probably start increasing again with the new government.
Agree. Not a coincidence they chose a turnaround location that made the journey outside the Niro EV range, then filled up at a ridiculous 75p/kwh, then based all other figures on a 30p daytime maximum home rate. @@timmos184
Makes me quite happy with my 2014 Tesla Model S with free supercharging. The old lady just did a trip from Denmark to Poland and back (around 2,200 km). Added more than 400 kWh of free electricity on that trip alone.
Out of warrnaty? Its a housebrick waiting to happen.
This only applies to about 10% of all journeys 90% of normal use is covered by home charging for an average person
You know this how? Remember in winter or bad weather the range plunges 20-30% for EVs. Lots of people in city apartments can't access home charging.
Only for those who have the ability to charge at home, which many people don't.
Most people will charge at home or at work. Fast charging is only used for long trips. I’ve rode almost 80.000 km with EV so I can speak from experience.
@@SkaffenUKyes I think this will be a deciding factor. If you generally do small journeys and are based out of a semi detached/detached house, EVs will be no brainer currently. Beyond that, it starts to get difficult - or at very least to involve some serious forward planning.
@@FirstLast-rh9jwpetrol MPG drops by similar on cold engine starts
Point 3.
EV stats are wrong. They said they charged 100% from home at the start of the journey. Thats over 60kWh in the EV. Yet, they said in the stats he charged over 50kWh at Instavolt, and less than 35kWh (around 45%) of the battery at home. So they lied and/or they did a poor test as the first 100% of the battery would have been charged from a home charger by most people.
Finally someone who spotted the wrong math :) I was afraid I was the only one. More than 900 commenters, and only a handful noticed.... Scary.... Don't people go to school and learn math anymore?
@@Gonza1000 I think the 35kWh was the charge at home *after* the motorway trip. So total charge to get back to the 100% starting point was 85 or 86kWh (whatever they said), so that's the amount used on the trip.
And I assume the same again next day to measure the 10.5kWh.
The maths on the EV makes no sense. 75% of the motorway journey was done on the home electric before charging yet the calculation showed only about 34kwh vs 50+ for the public charger to do the last 25% of the journey.
This makes absolutely no sense.
Also comments about time of day tariffs are relevant and would make it much cheaper too.
This is very poor journalism. Are they just Ill informed or sponsored by BP?
I too use Octopus Intelligent so only pay 7.5p / kW, but I have to agree, away from home charging costs are ridiculous making it less desirable to own an EV.
Should of bought a Tesla. 😂
@@tagwarebut you might have to sell your house to be able to afford it....
On a recent 2-day holiday to the highlands of Scotland which is pretty up and down my Honda Jazz Crosstar achieved 74 mpg on a total journey of around 328 miles and the car cost £27,000 so I would agree with the results and that the 'normal' hybrid with Atkinson cycle petrol engine and two electric motors with rgenerative braking is cheap to run and a lot less hassle than having to re-charge either at home or at the equivalent of Instavolt. The McMaster (see channel on CZcams) did a return trip to Mansfield to Skye which involved if I recollect properly 4 recharges en route and accompaning waste of time and extra expense since he only used the home charger at the outset and public chargers the rest of the time.
I have a Clio hybrid and love driving it. I usually fill up about once a month now, it was once a fortnight before. I like the smoothness of driving in ev mode and the power is there immediately. I do mostly commuter driving but do long distance, so for me a hybrid is the best of both worlds and excellent on petrol.
My neighbour a former BMW petrol head , changed from his M3 to a tesla 3 , his weekly fuel cost went from £100 to £20.
So you used the most expensive charger AND topped up way more than you needed to. You are fooling the public with this video. Bad form gents. Bad form
Good real world test guys. Another cost - TIME. Imagine those forced lengthy stops with kids in the back too. Had the choice of an EV and it made little sense in the real world.
But are you realistically going to do 280miles/5hrs without a stop?
EVs are great. I'll never goes car car again.
@@71brp84We have holidays up in the Western Isles. During the last one I framed it from an EV perspective, including seeing queues of them at the charging points on the way home. Looked a logistical nightmare we could happily live without.
Great review! Worth mentioning that the London Congestion charge exemption does currently cost an EV owner £10 per year however, within the next 2 years that benefit will end.
Excellent comparison! It is exactly what I was looking for! Good job! Thank you!
Seems like the ev costing included what was left in the 'tank' after getting home, which was probably a lot if he charged to 100% and no mention of cheap off peak rates. Also electricity prices are expected to drop quite soon.
Agreed, fully charging the cars and refilling with petrol at the end of the test would have been a more representative comparison. An experienced EV driver would only have charged enough to complete the journey, not to 100%. Making it clear that EV tariffs of 7.5 to 10 p/kwhr are the norm for EV drivers who charge from home. The nearest public chargers to us are free, but that is the exception and not the norm.
Sure 🤡☝️
Would be interesting to see real cost difference including price of ownership built in for each:
- Monthly PCP
- Monthly Insurance
- Monthly Road Tax
As I'm sure that would make the electric option look even less appealing. Electricity prices are nothing like they were when electric cars appeared to be the solution for cheaper motoring!
Would also be good to see how the above figures compared to a similar sized petrol and diesel car.
Interesting video though! 👍
This was altered because they used the top back up to full price to calculate the EV journey. If you leave home with a full battery charged on cheaper home rates, the top back up figure should be this price. They used the most expensive way to recharge the EV. He didn't mention what he was at when he got to the instavolt and then added 150 miles. If the whole journey was 280miles and he was half way back when he charged, he only had 70miles left to go. So he overcharged at the expensive rate when he could have done the minimum charge there and the majority at home. Rookie mistake there.
Yes, a used ev would cost me around £6k so id need a loan for that, my current car cost £500, no loan needed!
Agree. Think you would also need to include the depreciation of the car too.
I've seen other comparisons where an EV lost 50% value compared to a petrol losing 20% value in a similar period, as the market for secondhand EVs is bad.
And as for recycling....
@@jimwhook Banbury isn't halfway back - its closer to Birmingham and there was probably more like 80-90 miles to go. Considering it dropped its "285mile" range to needing a top up by then - somewhere around 200 miles, even adding "150miles" would be nowhere near that in reality so it might have had ~20 miles left when they got back.
Would you run it much closer than that to save a quid?
@@siraff4461 well, I don't know the UK and I was going by the rough map. They never stated what the EV was at when they stopped to charge but they did say themselves that they overcharged. This was also to simulate leaving from home and returning to home. So yes, I would do this. I also would drop back to 65 on the motorway. It doesn't add much to the time on the journey but it extends the range. There are also cheaper public chargers. With an EV with a max of 80kw, using a 150kw was just pointless. I would have gone for a cheaper 50kw. I would have spent the same time as this guy but would have just put in enough. The petrol refill should have been on premium to match. Not a far comparison when they are putting a foot on the scales... 🤷🏻♂️
I have an EV that I use primarily for driving to work and running errands in town so I rarely charge it a a public DC fast charger. Since most of my mileage is from home charging, my running costs are very low.
I agree with most of the comments and really they add up to a slightly flawed comparison. Could you re-publish your figures using an overnight home charging rate and also only topping up at Instavolt with enough charge to get you home? I suspect you will find the PHEV comes out best overall.
you cant just pick and chose 1 thing yours is better at its a average they could have put a diesel or a lpg in and beat the petrol and went around looking for the cheapest for prices for fuel
To drive the PHEV to the spec you need to fluctuate the driving modes on the motorway as you might recover 1-2 miles every 20miles downhills etc. Also you never start on EV mode just to drain it - you use just to get to the motorway speed and then hit Auto mode not Hybrid. In city driving I get 40miles even in heavy traffic it is obvious you did not drive it like an EV but as a normal petrol car. The plug in tech is not meant for everyone- my PHEV averages 85mpg in past 10k so we are clearly not on the same page here. Cheers
Sounds a faff
My experience is similar to yours with my Toyota Prius Phev. In winter, I get about 25 - 30 miles, from the battery on mixed A & M roads and 30 - 35 miles in the summer. On roads that are less than 40mph, I would switch to Eco EV, and when I am driving on 40mph - 70mph, I switch to the normal hybrid mode. I have driven 26k and, I have averaged 105mpg and over 4 miles/kWh. My experience is that some people who talk bad about PHEV, do not use it as it should. They either don't charge it regularly, they have got a heavy foot or they just want to sweet-talk one to buy an EV. Then they offer a Telsa referral link. lol. In Summary, EVs are most enjoyable to drive within the city, with a cheap overnight electric tariff.
Unbelievable. If that's the true cost of owning an electric vehicle then the only people who will benefit are company car drivers.
30p is not a real world charge rate at home. Much less. Are BP funding this clip
Superb review thank you!
Cheesus, eletricity is expensive in the UK. Here in Finland charging at home costs about 10-15c/kwh depending on your contract, and 20-70c/kwh for public charging. Meaning that 100km with a petrol costs about 5l*2€=10€, while in an electric car it costs about 18kwh*0,15€=2,7€.
Yeah most people can stick to ABC and K-Lataus chargers for about 0.33€/kwh CCS charging.
A few relevant factors:
Servicing cost: both HEV and PHEV need regular oil changes, while the BEV does not (although it would still need most other maintenance items such as coolant and brake fluid flushes, along with tires and suspension components).
Charger installation: owning a PHEV or EV means hiring an electrician to install a level 2 charging station at home. That’s fairly expensive on its own, but-to make matters worse-your existing electric service may well not have sufficient capacity, meaning you’d also need your service upgraded which adds considerable further expense.
Overnight rates: many local utilities offer cheaper overnight rates which is when the bulk of at-home charging would occur. This means the charging cost itself would be far less than stated in the video…
Fair point. I wonder about one thing, doesn't EV chew through tyres faster than petrol, being heavier and having higher torque? And how much faster? It probably wouldn't bother the first owner, but given the car will likely be used for 10+ years, this should come into consideration.
@@vaclavdockal6272 Not to mention EV tyres are more expensive as well and less choice. One of the many things i learned having an EV for 3 years. Now driving a hybrid and next car will most likely be a return to diesel.
@@MG3-Hybrid I chose used hybrid in 2019 as it was the most ecological and economical option in my eyes. Until battery tech changes a lot I still think it is.
@@vaclavdockal6272 It certainly would do, unless driven quite conservatively.
servicing cost: both HEV and PHEV need regular oil changes, while the BEV does not ......I lv i wh u u sma it proves h intel u r. I w i was s intel as U. pwigoiwbat abbrievate awa u lv u bro
It's good to see that many people realise that you guys at What car have done an unfair test and comparison. How about doing it again and properly this time with real prices, and sensible charging choices. Be honest guys, EVs are clearly much, much cheaper than ICE in almost every scenario. Many public chargers are FREE!! Show me a free petrol station...... I'm waiting...
I'm amazed at the low efficiency achieved by the BEV in the test, less than 3 miles per kWh. I regularly exceed 5 miles per kWh with an average of 4.3 to 4.5. Driving a BEV is a skill the tester needs to learn.
I get that in my etron 55 and I am very well aware that it is low efficiency for an EV
There is no skill to it on the motorway like this. Especially if in cruise control. The efficiency just is what it is. Do you get 4.3 at 70mph?
If you are asking me, no I don't. I was comparing my car to the "less than 3 miles per kW" I get which should be bettered by the Kia EV@@spamfremail
@@philhartley7551 sorry no, I meant the OP @GHB-eb8wg saying "regularly exceed 5 miles per kwh... average 4.3-4.5."
I've never heard of any EV that can do 5, least of all anything over 4 at motorway speed. If there is, I'd like to know what it is and I'll go and get one!
@@spamfremail I'm not really sure how they got 2.7m/kWh in town and 3.3m/kWh on the motorway. I regularly do motorway journeys in mine and get 3.9-4.1m/kWh, only getting less than 3.5m/kWh if its lashing it down with rain. This is at an indicated 74mph. Around town, easily north of 4.5. Over 20,000miles I've averaged 4m/kWh according to the car. Not doing anything special, just not driving like I stole it all the time.
I've got a plug-in hybrid: a little Jeep Renegade. I was on a tariff which cost me 5p/kWh to charge up between midnight and 5 am. The range on battery is about 25 miles in Winter, 30 miles in the Summer. Work is 7 miles from home, so my daily commute cost me peanuts *and* I could travel for long distances if I had to, with all the benefits of regenerative braking (about 50 mpg running on petrol).
BUT... my 5p per kWh tariff just ran out and my supplier wanted to charge me 20p/kWh for the night-rate. I'm in the process of switching to a cheaper company, but it's like swimming through treacle. The switch has been "pending" for a month. All the electricity suppliers can tell me is that there has been "an error". When I ask what the nature of the error might be, and how could it be rectified? I'm simply told that it's an "error in the system". If the switch goes through then I'll be paying about 11p / kWh to charge my car.
I drive about 6,000 miles a year, or less. The plug-in hybrid was over £10,000 more expensive than the equivalent petrol model with the same specifications.
I love my little Jeep. I'm really happy that I don't have to visit a petrol station more than once every two months. Nonetheless, it would, overall, have been cheaper to keep putting diesel in the old Land Rover. Less comfortable, perhaps, but just as much fun to drive. Arguably more fun.
If the Government wants us all to drive EVs then it's going to have to (1) make it feasible by beefing up the electricty infrastructure and encouraging the installation of charging points - right now there isn't enough juice in the grid for us all to drive EVs and charging points are hard to find - and (2) make it cheaper to run on electricity than fossil fuel.
Most people are not going to spend more money on buying cars that are more expensive to run. The environment argument is important.. but what is the enviromental impact of building, maintaining, and eventually recycling EVs compared to the enviromental impact of (say) keeping a 30 year-old Land Rover on the road?
Interested to know how an eHEV would fare. From what I can tell eHEVs, like the new Civic (which use a petrol motor as a generator and electric motors at low speeds, and direct power from the engine via a single speed transmission at higher speeds) are more efficient since they leverage the two motor types at the peaks of their respective efficiencies; electric around town and ICE on motorway.
Se my report on eHEV Jazz Crosstar - 74mpg.
My E-HEV Honda HRV has averaged 64.6 mpg over 8000 miles since the beginning of February this year. 80% motorway 20% local trips. My friends Jazz e-hev has averaged 69.4 mpg over 11000 in 18 months 50% motorway 50% local.
We are both very impressed with the running costs.
To me it was flawed as it didn't take into account the TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP. Servicing etc . The BEV will be significantly lower as theres less moving parts and less to service.
Also a good ev driver would have slowed down to say 60mph this would have made the EV do the trip in one hit . As the presenter said you would only put enough in to get you home . Ive done this a few times also took advantage of discount cards too.
TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP you say? Including depreciation? I can get a 2020 or 2021 BEV for close to half price. What does that tell you?
@@FirstLast-rh9jw Lovely reply. Also, another to add is the cost of the wall charger and installation, which is not free. Most PHEVs can do without it and hybrids don't need it. Many EV tires are more expensive than their hybrid/PHEV counterparts. Out of Warranty repairs for Telsas, like replacing a worn-out rear motor or particularly, the traction battery, usually wipes out any prior savings you have made or even hope to make.
The experiment is good but more factors could be added. Such as (1) possibly higher car insurance with many EVs, (2) the service cost of some EVs is as high as some Hybrid/PHEVs although most EVs cost less to service (3) Despite Hybrids/PHEVs having more moving parts, Toyota hybrids like Prius and Corollas are super reliable/safe and very cheap to run and that is why many taxi companies use them in busy city centers like London, and Birmingham. (4) If the speed limit states 70mph, I would be inconsiderate of other road users, if I choose to drive at 60mph. Hybrids and PHEVs are mostly efficient between 50 - 60mph (5) If you also consider your precious time, as part of the total cost of ownership, on the road, there is a very high chance your journey would be longer than a comparable hybrid/PHEV because the charger point is either faulty, ICED, slower charging speed or is been used. (6) Lastly, when we consider depreciation, even if you charge your EV for free for the lifetime of the car, EVs would come out more expensive to own than Hybrids/PHEVs.
For both trips any idea what the CO2 level were for each vehicle?
to get that answer you would have to start by the beginning by knowing how much CO2 you get for the petrol extraction, transformation and transport then burning that petrol in your combustion car. On the other side you have to know how much CO2 you get in the atmosphere from the mineral extraction required to build the batteries plus transport at each steps of fabrication and most important how much CO2 generated to get the production of the electricity required to charge that car and this last detail depend a lot of where you live. I am sure I am not mentioning a lot of potential CO2 issues in both cases.
The electric had the most.... it starts with aronud 90 000 mile sbefore it starts up the first time plus depending on the electricity sourc etimes 2 at the charging stations on the same route than a conventional car.
Who cares?
Great video, thanks for the info!
I'm glad I bought the Hybrid Kia Nero (2019) I'm getting 54.7mpg which is fine for me.
2023 Prius. 😎
Uk prices are too high. Here when I charge at home is around 0.10€/kw depending on the day(sometimes lower than 1p like this Sunday) and the fastest charger I can pay for on the road is a 50kw/h one that costs 0.41€/kw. and let's not forget that there are a lot of 3.3 or 7kw/h public chargers for free in shopping center and such so it's much cheaper to run the full EV.
I had a mild hybrid car previously and I have notice huge savings since changing, form expending 200-250€ per month on gas to an extra 30-35€ on the energy bill in the house. Plus the 20€ occasional public fast charging I still save over 100€ each month. Getting close to year 3 of owning that car the initial price difference is almost payed for
Add to the BEVs high purchase price, high insurance, high public charging cost, the depreciation of the vehicle and you have to accept and dismiss it as the sadists option.
This is an incredibly important and informative video, thanks for the hard work that went into making this video. Keep up the good work and informing your viewers.
An interesting test, but i would have been useful to see other metrics and scenarios compared auch as low price charging overnight and C02 emissions comparison.
It just shows how efficient new petrol cars have come.
Hybrid ❤️
Great video guys!!! Really interesting and very informative!!! Pretty Ever results. Keep it up with the great videos!
I have a full solar array on my bungalow. During fine days that runs the house first, heats our water, then charges the car. So free energy at point of delivery. If I have to charge overnight then it’s 20 p per hour on economy 7. Solar charging is more gentle so I always get a higher range than the manufacturers figure of 214, using that method. I’m semi retired so the need for 100% is very rare. Also you must take into account the minimal cost of services. My MG5 cost £95 for the first full service and that included full AA recovery for one year, even home visit! Very useful when I had a puncture. As a disabled driver I can’t change my own tyres! Charging network prices are extortionately high, and some sort of common sense has to prevail! Give the fantastic value for money across the MG range I have no hesitation recommending my car!