The Problems with PHEVs / A False Promise?
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2023
- In most cases, I wouldn’t advise a plug-in hybrid, today, I will explain why. To be clear, there are great options and they fit some lifestyles well, but there are more limitations than what I was expecting.
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I charge my PHEV at home and at work. I don't use gas during my work week. I usually fill up after 8000 kms, just because I want fresh gas. And that is usually when I change my oil. I filled up my tank 6 times last year. PHEV's work for some people with certain driving habits. Hybrids are still a great way to go for most.
Wait, then you don't need to change motor oil that often like the normal gas car, right?
@@mswinds I still do every 6 months, just because I want everything fresh 😂
Sounds like a full BEV would work for you.
So....if you ONLY filled up 6 times, an EV would have been better 4u. Twice as efficient as dragging around an engine that still needs to be maintained and will turn on regardless of mode. I'm just saying what you said.
Sounds like your engine does not get used a lot. 2yr oil change sounds more reasonable. Modern oil don't become acidic that fast.
I have RAV4 Prime XSE Premium. It is an engineering marvel. In the Summer I get 54 miles per charge, and a full charge takes about 2 1/2 hours. My community has free Level 2 chargers everywhere. I have zero regrets
I'm sorry. Did you say it takes 2 1/2 hours of charging to drive 54 miles? That's comically horrible.
@@MrProy33 not at all. I'm able to drive EV only most of the time because most of my destinations have chargers
@@MrProy33 I don’t even get that much. About half, but also, I can recharge in one hour for 25 miles, and cost me $1 ish. I don’t sit around and wait, I charge overnight. So let me do the math. 4 hours for 100 miles @ $1.03, I’m up to $4+, try and match that with any gas car.
@@MrProy33 It's comically horrible that you think that, perhaps you forgot we don't have to charge at all and can drive and drive and drive hundred miles after hundred miles after hundred miles and if for any reason we can't charge or don't want to, we don't have to. Charging level 3 on a vehicle like the RAV4 would be comically wasteful and stupid, not to mention it would almost certainly lower the life of the battery pack significantly.
For dayli use (short driving) rav4 prime it very good car.
I have rav4 hybrid xle, and avarege mpg on short city driving ~ 41 mpg... 5 days - 20 miles each day = 100 miles a week. 2.5 gallons. Less then 10$.
He's right, PHEV's aren't for everyone but the case against them in this case appears flawed to me. I managed to go 2,600KM between fills on my 23 Santa Fe PHEV, thus moving my payback period between the gas model and the PHEV to only 2.3 years. Additionally, the 90HP of electric does just fine for me in almost every circumstance. Is it perfect? Nope, but man, I am ecstatic with my experience thus far with a PHEV.
same here, find that the arguments against the PHEV's are a little flawed, this type of vehicles (PHEV) have the versatility that a ICE can give you to go to places with the lack of a sufficient recharge grid or without having to depend on the charging stations that sometimes are a little far away; and also boast the advantage of no longer depending on fossil fuels for daily commute as the EV's do, have used only 2 tanks of gas in a 2 year time period, since i charge it every night at home for the daily use. (with a clarity PHEV)
The Chevy Volt, if it was still around, addresses most of your issues. It weighs 3800 lbs, goes 40 miles on a charge, is a 150 HP EV, never has to fire up the ICE for additional power in EV mode, then switches to a 150 HP serial hybrid when the battery drops to minimum state of charge. It’s a shame folks never got to fully understand how good this system operated before GM pulled the plug. Hopefully the Voltec architecture architecture will return someday but this time with Ultium components.
Very happy with my phev. Absolutely nothing beats it in cost and utility. We also own an EV, which I like, but would not have it as my only car.
Rav4 prime owner here. Bought mine in early 2021 when it was not too difficult (5 month wait). Used it for 2 years in Bay Area for my 40 mile commute (charging at home and work means very little gas), weekend ski trips to Tahoe, all the while using very little gas. I moved this summer across the country and used the same rav4 to haul a trailer with all my stuff (2500 towing capacity perfect for a haul 5x8). Since I moved, I have not had to gas up (using 1/4 tank).
Find another better car for me,
I have had a Tucson PHEV for two years. I live in Southern CA and usually do not drive more than 31 miles per day. My usual gas mpg per fill up is about 200.
I got $8,200 combined tax credits so I didn’t have to pay a PHEV premium.
I have solar, so I don’t have additional electric costs for the 6,000 electric miles I drive per year.
One draw back on the Tucson is that the gas engine turns on when you need heat.
I have the same vehicle for 4 months in Canada. Engine for heating is the exact benefit in Canada due to much lower temp. I would rather use gas for heating and electricity for driving. It charges battery at the same time. Really smart. Very little energy loss.
Sounds like you spent tens of thousands of dollars more so you can pretend you're helping the environment
Good luck trying to recycle your cart battery and shower panels.... adding more waste and destruction too the earth
None other than former Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda said “Toyota can produce eight 40-mile plug-in hybrids for every one 320-mile battery electric vehicle and save up to eight times the carbon emitted into the atmosphere.” And The Manhattan Institute says 250 tons of material must be mined or moved per EV battery. Mr. Toyoda would likely say building eight hybrid batteries would be a better outcome.
Then there's the reduced drain on the power grid, perhaps the same 15% effect, compared to EVs (not to mention, a normal 110V receptacle is all a PHEV requires).
I remember that outgoing message too before he stepped down. That felt like the truest words of wisdom in this evolving industry, where it's sensible to take gradual steps, by doing what Toyota is doing, diversifying their fleet to have multiple options, and therefore multiple avenues toward achieving the same goal, rather than go all-in on BEV and risk being constrained by supply issues that's going to happen as BEV ramps up, ignoring market forces that are. It just makes more sense to buy a PHEV and get the best of both worlds right now for the majority of people that are risk-adverse. As long as people keep up with their maintenance schedules, gas cars have proven to excel past 200k and do not carry the risks that come with BEVs.
@@terrancecloverfield6791Yes, “ not only can the ICE go past 200 K,” consider that my ICE (and trans) will have ~66K when my odometer says 200 K.
Where I live charging an EV is often more expensive per mile than gassing up a normal non hybrid compact car, it depends on price fluctuations. I have settled on PHEV because I can take full advantage of free lvl 1 charging at work, and use gasoline for the rest of my driving whenever it's cheaper than kilowatts, whether the savings will be enough to justify the higher vehicle cost will depend on actual price fluctuations while I own the vehicle and how long I keep it. Even if it doesn't pay off it gives me some piece of mind that I have a little insulation against future energy price fluctuations.
Something to consider if you live in an area with expensive electricity.
Don't know why you pay so much for charging! My plug in at home comes out to fifty cents per gallon of gas. I'm saving a couple hundred dollars per month with my Honda clarity phev.
Love, love, love my Honda Clarity! Near perfect car. I get @43 EV range during winter, up to 62 miles during the Summer. That's right. 62 miles for a PHEV. Which is more than I drive most days. My average is 126 mpg overall. Of course, the car was discontinued because people didn't like the wheel covers. That's right. The wheel covers...
What year do you have? Mine only gets 42 tops in summer. 2018, I do love the ride, size and economy!
They should make em again. New wheel covers LOL and up the battery to about eighty miles!
I tried to buy a PHEV RAV4 but after a long wait, they called for a regular hybrid and I took it. Heard all your points and I would still go for it. PHEV is not for everybody but it would have worked perfect for me. Good video.
After 6 months of owning an Outlander PHEV, my average oil consumption is 1.7L/100 km. I have a very good and luxiorious ride experienced. I just plug it in my driveway overnight twice a week. I am happy with my purchased.
The outlander is my favorite of the bunch, congrats!
The biggest obstacle to PHEVs is that an automobile engine is far from the ideal engine type for operating as a range-extending electric generator. But, since all current PHEVs are developed by legacy car companies which are in the business of producing automobile engines, that's what they're equipped with. That engine ends up adding more weight, and taking up more space, in addition to the fuel tank and battery pack, and electric motor. If someone developed a PHEV with a smaller, more efficient range-extender, many of the issues outlined in this video would go away.
I started with a Volt, went to a Spark EV, and now have a Ford Maverick Hybrid. Where I live, I can access just about any type of store or food within a 20 mile radius. And at the time I had my Volt, I was working a job that was 5 miles away. I was in electric 95% of the time. I then started doing side gig delivery for Amazon, in which the gas engine was great to have. I still got great MPG when the battery was depleted. The Spark EV taught me through a series of traumatic lessons that a pure EV as my only vehicle is not, selfishly, viable for me. Pure EV's just simply are not for a large number of people, yet. The Maverick Hybrid has been great, yes, I wish I had more electric range, but hybrid system is great about utilizing electric only mode. Plus, having learned all of the tips and tricks from my Volt and Spark, I can really max out the electric range and MPG. I really think there's a place for all of them, caveat being the PHEV should be something with like 40+ miles of electric only range, with good to excellent MPG on gas, being of moderate price and utility. Great video!! You have really great insights.
Thank you for sharing your real life experiences. I've owned three hybrid Ford's, the newest was a 2013 Fusion so all older technology.
I wouldn't compare the Spark to modern EVs or draw conclusions from it. Having a 300 mile range and access to 250 kW DC chargers is a different experience.
@@iamalmostanonymous 300 miles range in perfect conditions, which is only a few months a year here, and then the cold sets in and the range cuts in half. And when the chargers are working, and going the speed they should, sure. But this is a problem with chargers not working, or being ICEd that doesn't seem to have an end in sight. I also never said that my Spark was representative of modern evs, but it is an EV none the less with the same charging rate as the Bolt/Bolt EUV, so charging speed is actually valid. And that DCFC with the small spark battery made for fast charges, when they worked. The experiences I had could apply to many EVS regardless of range or charge speed, and in fact do apply.
@@duster497 None of your arguments apply to a Tesla you buy today. The chargers always work. They lose at most 20% in really cold weather thanks to heat pumps. I don't know where you live, but in north Georgia (where I live) it dips below freezing maybe 3 months of the year. You must live in northern Canada to have only a "few" months that aren't too cold for an EV.
If you want to compare a hybrid to an EV, it's not right to pick the worst EVs then claim EVs are not practical.
I've owned hybrid cars for 23 years and researched PHEV's and BEV's since they've been sold. PHEV's really are the natural progression between hybrids to BEV's. And right now, PHEV's make the MOST SENSE for the majority of American commuters on a statistical basis given most people's driving habits. They will save most people money and headache in the long run as well as burn less fossil fuels. My next car will be a PHEV. In 10-20 years, when we have better battery technology and public charging infrastructure, BEV's will be the way to go.
I love my PHEV. Plug in at home at my convenience. I fill gas every 4 months. Worth the wait to buy.
I have owned a Volt and a Prius Prime (the old one that got 25 miles per charge). Both were great cars but the market is getting to a point where most people who would consider a PHEV may as well just buy a BEV. I have a Kona EV now and it’s been great, ironically I actually worry about charging less than I did with my PHEVs. I always tried my hardest to keep them charged, even plugging in at friends’ houses when I was able to. It felt like a waste anytime I needed to use gas. I only really think about range with the Kona if I’m planning a trip, I don’t take many long trips though so it’s not something I deal with often. Another consideration for me trading in the Prius Prime for the Kona was that I moved from a single family home where I could charge nightly to an apartment where I can’t charge. With the Kona I just charge at work 1-2 times a week, if I still had a PHEV then I’d spend a lot of time burning gas.
Similar experience here with respect to charging. When I had the Kona Electric I didn't even have a level 2 charger at home. I just used a regular 110 plug and then once or twice a month if needed I'd stop at a level 3 and go from 15% to 90% in half an hour or so, then go home. But now that I have a PHEV, I wanted the level 2 charger at home.
I don't want the range anxiety that goes with ev!
Ram ramcharger is making it right this year. Now if everyone else would follow their lead?
Thank you for bringing up that the best way to eliminate emissions from transportation is to completely rethink how we move around, build our cities ect. As an American, I feel like cars are so deeply ingrained in how we get around that we have a hard time reimagining a different built world. Great video too!
Excellent point!!!;)
My first time in Orlando I was shocked to find I could not cross the road to a restaurant I wanted to use without getting in the hire car. The traffic signals at the crossroads never had a phase that allowed pedestrians to cross.
@Realistick any thoughts on the Rang Rover PHEV engine options? They have a bunch of them - most have good range (60+ miles) and some have good electric HP too, including a 550e coming next year (can be selected with Range Rover, and RR Sport) with close to 200 electric HP.
Lots of great points here. I have been surprised how easy my little 80 hp (60,000 watt) motor can move 4500 lbs of car...its actually quite impressive. I want to get over 200,000miles out of our 2023 KIA Niro PHEV but I can see that there maybe more maintenance required,,, somewhat ironically because of how little use the gas engine gets. Lighting up a gas engine at 65mph when its 10 degrees out and shooting fuel (GDI engine) directly on the piston, is going to require more oil changes. That said, it is wonderful short range electric commuter car.
it moves your car easily because hp are not fully in charge of "moving" your vehicle, in most situations the torque number represents the real value to move the car and beat the inertia of the standstill vehicle weight, maybe for full speed it may not be as much as someone would usually need, but for that reasons is the ICE installed... have had a clarity PHEV for abt 2 years now and have filled the tank twice in that time period, only to use the gas and avoid it going stale...
I wonder if it's powered by the electric motor only and you floor it so that it fires up the gas engine for more power, isn't that hard on the engine if it's cold? Is the engine kept warm by electric coolant heating and circulation? Something else? If so, what's the added energy drain for that, especially if it's freezing outside?
Depends on the design of the vehicle, but I would imagine the excess heat from the battery would circulate through the engine. Again, this changes on a per make/model based and there are absolutely poorly designed PHEVs.
My Prius prime is elite. I will exclusively buy them. They make sense in almost every case for me.
The only things I'd want from a hybrid right now is a fully electric ~150kW drive train with a ~15kWh LFP battery and a ~15kW range-extending generator that has engine heat recovery for fast heat in winter to get both the cabin and LFP up to comfortable temperatures without losing half the range or waiting 20+ minutes.
That's been my thinking as well. An LFP battery can be charged to 100% and drained to near 0% without reducing its shelf life like the lithium ion batteries and a range-extending generator is not as heavy or as mechanically complicated as a full ICE engine. I do wonder about how the range would work out with the generator and a 15kWh battery (in this case).
@@indigetal on average, I need 16kW to hold 100km/h when I drive my mother's Bolt EV, so a 15kW generator would be enough to drive on gas assist for ~1000km until the battery gets low in my case.
Another option would be to have a small EV , with a mid range battery for everyday trips and a bigger combustion engine car for longer trips. A great option if you have more than one driver, but only occasionally need two cars at the same time.
Exactly the route that I took - Chevy Bolt EV with a Ford Maverick Hybrid. I also own an ebike
PHEVs work well for this. I take my Cadillac ELR on road trips on occasion and it gets about 40mpg on average due to the regen. But I still have my Escalade for when I want or need to drive something bigger. Driving the Escalade isn't so bad as it's infrequent so I might have to spend $100 or so on gasoline a few times a year. It does sit most of the time though since getting my PHEV.
The downsides though are higher costs for owning more than one vehicle, registration and insurance, repairs and maintenance.
@@indigetal Like the ebike idea. Great for the environment.
No to the two vehicles for two different drives....jut make the phev with 80-100 miles of battery! Love what the Ram Ramcharger is doing !
What do you think of the nissan xtrail epower?
Seems like hybrid is still the better option over PHEV. Great video as usual!
AND I WILL BUY A FULLY LOADED 2023 OUTLANDER PHEV ANYWAY!
Not true for me. See my other comments.
@@RichardJoashTanI’ve got the eclipse cross phev for a month now , I’ve only put 25€ of fuel in it . The car is great so far so you won’t regret buying the outlander 👌
Just see PHEV as mostly a HEV
I'm not sure why the EV-only range on US models is so low. I've seen 50 miles EV-only from an Outlander PHEV done on a very regular basis, without trying particularly hard.
Actually, PHEV are great for stop and go city driving... but then so are EVs. PHEVs are not as efficient on long trips as ICE vehicles but at least, unlike BEV's you can actually reach you destination in a reasonable time. Trading some of that BEV battery weight for a small ICE actually makes sense sometimes. Just remember, all energy is local. Your mileage may vary.
By the way... Last year I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee. At the time I had the option to get the PHEV 4xe version but chose the V6 that I was familiar with.
Put the phev in hybrid mode for 200 mile trip.
Just one thing you missed. The stress of owning an electric vehicle and having to worry about finding a place to recharge. Having to drive with A/C turned off so you can make it to a charging location.
True AC and EV are enemies. They don't know what they are talking about.
I've driven an EV for 8 years (S) and these are very uncommon situations. Daily charge at home and road trips automatically map out charge stops. I've never cut HVAC to save power.
Not everyone has a home plug😂😂😂. Before EV purchase, buy a driveway first
@@iamalmostanonymousreally so you travel in holiday season and there is no queue in charging stations? I understand the ev anxiety is overblown but you will be lying if you don't have any.
@@anubizz3 I live in the Southeastern U.S. and have never waited in line. I've seen videos of people out in California waiting, but this is far from common. Also, the Tesla network manages charger usage. When you route a trip, it shows you how many cars are charging at a stop and can route you to a different location if one is busy.
I live in Arizona where cruising speed on the interstate is at least 80 mph. How will a phev handle that? Will the ice be running constantly, what kind of rpm? Considering both outlander and Santa Fe. I think the outlander has a cvt while the Santa Fe has a 6speed auto.
Outlander is a much better phev all around. It’s not a CVT in the traditional sense and operates much more like EV than the Hyundai. Highway cruising the Santa fe will kick in the engine more than likely, especially if the battery drops below 50
We own two Rav 4 Primes for the last three years.
I commute to work on the interstate and it stays in EV up to 86 mph. (The owners manual says 84 mph) and temps down to 14 degrees Fahrenheit.
Other PHEVs like the Jeep I rented constantly kick into ice even on gradual inclines.
Toyota Rav 4 Prime is really a great automobile for me. 85% of my driving is in EV and on vacations I can net 36 mpg driving 85 mph in ICE. Not bad and even at freeway speeds 75 -80 mph (legal in rural Utah) I can reach 105 mph in the length of a semi when passing.
@realistick- well-balanced review. I have no regrets about my XC90 T8 PHEV... the technology is a bit quirky, but that is Swedish engineering for you. The biggest challenge of the car has been Android operating system. You are correct, it is all about a certain lifestyle. We needed enough room for a big dog, enough power to make me smile when I hit the gas and enough range to take me 10 Mi to the gym or to the store without having to use the internal combustion engine. And then enough range to not worry about having to stop for 30 minutes to an hour every 250 me when I am doing a 900 mile road trip for work. Sure it was hard to get a year-and-a-half ago, but the combination of luxury, performance and practicality for my particular situation works out quite well.
I drive an Honda Clarity doing Lyft in a college town. I love it in every season but winter. I can make $59 on a $1 charge if I limit myself to local drives. I don't have to worry about range if I do pick up a drive to the airport. Winter is an adventure because low temps degrade my battery capacity by 1/3 and I have to discharge the battery by 25% to get decent hybrid performance.
Thanks so much for the video!!!;)
Coming from an RX350 I'm considering the Prius Prime as my next car as it has 45 more horses than the regular Prius. Sometimes a lil more juice can make the experience more enjoyable. But for now gas is cheaper than a new vehicle
I have a 2022 Rav4 Prime and I love it. Yes I paid way too much for it, but Toyota does PHEV right. I don't drive a lot of miles, but I have about 1000 miles on my current tank of gas and I've on;y used a quarter tank. Some PHEVs aren't very fuel efficient when the electricity runs out, but mine is a Rav4 hybrid when no battery power is left, so I get at least 38 mpg. Also, in warm months I get between 49 and 51 miles range on a charge. And it's quick in EV mode and quicker in hybrid mode. I hope I can make up some of the cost when I trade it in someday. Great vehicle!
uh my 2013 chevy volt has 120k miles on it and im currently getting 47 hwy miles on all electric range. true on the hwy i would only get like 39 miles before i added 90$ worth of flexible solar panels to the roof. the irony is that gm accidently built the perfect EV with no real battery degradation 15 years ago, but everyone was too dumb to realize they were not just priuses. I spent 7k for mine last year and have already saved 2k in gas compared to my mpg modded 02 civic. its almost guaranteed that I will realize the entire value of the car in gas savings in just a couple more years, and i have literally never been inconvenienced by it unlike EV's with their multi decade ROI
These only make sense if you charge at home and regularly do not drive many miles day -to-day. Level 3 charging is great, but some of the places charge almost 60 cents per kwh...which is more than gas for the equivalent amount of miles.
model y vs rav4 prime same price, ok but rav: better range, cheaper to run, more offroad capabilities, much Much more reliable, has two propulsion systems and hybrid mode where it charges battery using fuel, more practical interior layout, build quality, has frickin knobs and real buttons to push, can do 560 miles on gas and 40 on electric which is plenty for most.
I'd take the RAV4 prime too if it was an msrp deal, it's just a hell of a wait time in most places or you're paying way over sticker :(
Eh....range anxiety is real, especially given that most EVs lose their range pretty quickly due to various factors like cold. Until chargers are as fast and as plentiful as gas stations I'll stick to Lexus/Toyota HEVs and PHEVs. Awesome resale value and reliability, unlike EVs lol.
Great video. You deserve more clicks. I enjoy the car reviews but this is next level. You just reviewed an entire automotive trend with great depth and balance.
Tyler is very smart and one of the best car people on YT
I've watched many EV and Tesla videos where they're long distant driving. The entire trip is planned around going from one charging station to the next. A PHEV does NOT have that problem.
Well alot of this video never done it in busy holidays season where alot more EV drive and need to charge in the same charging station.... This make having EV much more nightmare.
Have never charged at a commercial site. Level 2 charger at home is great. Love the X5 45e.
I am extremely happy with my PHEV. Some months I do not charge gas at all. I live in Europe, gas es very expensive, running with home electricity is 70 % cheaper than running on gas. Thanks to tax breaks the PHEV was 30 % less expensive as the same car with ICE motor. It is a large 4WD SUV and thanks to regen with empty battery it consumes like a little boring 1 liter ICE VW Golf. So if you do most of you commute with home electricity and do not need to pay a fortune for the PHEV I can't imagine a better solution. If you just do long journeys and charging at home is not an option you will not enjoy those benefits and a normal hybrid or even an efficient diesel will do. About the issue of carrying the ICE when using as EV I prefer that than carry a battery five time bigger than needed.
The biggest challenge now is battery production is constrained worldwide, so I see PHEV as a bridge until gas engines go the way of the steam engine. The battery in one 240mi EV can make 6 PHEV or 90 HV. An ICE powertrain is heavy, but so is carrying around an extra 200mi of battery you don't use every day
Some put a 500$ deposit and withdraw the order one two years later for no show! Toyota especially!
I’m thinking of a PHEV because I don’t drive very far daily but I do make somewhat regular trips that take a few hours. I would consider BEV if I had a garage with 240v charging. But I can get enough in a PHEV on 120v to get me to work and back.
My issue is finding one with AWD and a heat pump. The math for extra cost just doesn’t work if I have to run the gas engine for heat for 5 months of the year (Canada).
So far I’ve only found the Wrangler 4xe that fits. I would prefer the Kia Niro but it’s fwd only and no heat pump.
The vehicle's miles/kWh, battery capacity, extra cost for the PHEV, cost of gasoline in your area and cost of electricity in your area all MATTER for financial analysis.
I recently rented and then calculated the numbers for a PHEV SUV for us. It would be cheaper to operate the non-PHEV variant. And, save the $10k price differential to boot.
Again, it depends. One size does not fit all.
All in all, PHEVs deliver the best features of both ICEVs (care free use and autonomy) and BEV (energy recovery, parking at charging stations, instant torque) and none of the limitations. I own now Volvo S60 Recharge and the fuel consumption has dropped twice (
Regular Toyota hybrids are perfectly efficient, except for short commutes. So it would be nice to have a relatively cheap PHEV, but with a 15-20 mile range!
Hybrid or PHV for me, but I will go for the Hybrid. I am shopping around for an RAV4 Hybrid base trim.
had the rav4 hybrid, switched to Escape PHEV, super happy and the $3750 tax rebate helped sweeten the pot a lot. It gets better MPG than Rav4 Hybrid in HYBRID mode, and it gets 37 EPA rated EV range, but I get 44+ EV range all the time
Uhm, we charge our Escape PHEV at home. At night. When we sleep. In a 110 outlet. We also -- gasp! -- charge our telephones the same way. It costs about two bucks a month. Who TF would try to charge it on the road? That is not the point. And we got a tax credit.
Some folks talk about PHEVs putting out worse emissions when the engine comes on (assuming the battery is charged and you are going up a steep hill or need more power than the electric motor alone can provide) because the cat isn't hot. I haven't investigated this but it seems logical.
Too bad the Mercedes A series is not available in the US. 44+ miles Electric range, 7KwH charging rate, 12.5KwH battery size, does up to 87mph electric only, and has impressive 'waft' getting there. Also does 50mpg gas only mode. It works for me, in the UK.
PHEVs make much more sense for more people in Europe than in the US!
I have a Honda Clarity PHEV and I’ve absolutely loved it.
Well, a PHEV was the only choice for me. In my area, you cannot buy a decent NA ICE-only car nowadays, but I got a 6.5K euro incentive for a PHEV with an even bigger engine. LOL... Anyway, charging it daily really works wonders inside the city. Therefore, there was not a single reason why I would not buy a PHEV
I don't see a disadvantage here. When you're stuck with your EV in Moosebutt Montana checking out the beer can museum and no charger for 150 miles you will WISH you bought that PHEV! 😂
If that unlikely scenario occurred you'll want a mild hybrid, not a PHEV. Otherwise, it'll be EV all the way.
I have an XC60 phev, it suits the pattern of my driving very well.
Phev would make sense if they were more like the volt or insight where it is more of a range extended electric.
Definitely, a phev is much better when it is primarily EV! The mitsu and Toyotas do a decent job of this too.
My Kia CEED is exactly that. Works perfectly for me.
Also BMW i3 REX?
@@toronado455 RIP
This makes no sense for phev. If you want efficiency, EV does not have the efficiency at high speed but engine does. Phev should be multiple modes, EV only, parallel hybrid with engine direct drive, series hybrid with EV motor direct drive. If people want series hybrid with EV direct drive only, just buy pure EV. Phev is a wrong choice. Phev is to serve some purpose, but not the same purpose as EV.
We only average 750 miles/mo. Currently paying $3.20/ gallon of gas and $0.17/kwh for electricity. Looking at Tuscon PHEV milage numbers. we would only save about $15/mo assuming driving on 100% electric. But the $7k price difference between gas and PHEV takes nearly 13 years to break even though I expect both gas and electricity costs to increase.
I see your point about the video, and I agree it mostly applies to the situation outside of China.
Over here, there's been a huge uptick in sales for extended-range EVs (promidantly large SUVs) like those from Li Auto (e.g. L7, L8, L9), AITO, and Leapmotor this year, which boast electric ranges well over 200 km. They usually have a battery of around 40 kwh, several times the volume of triditional PHEVs, full electric-driven (0-100 in 5s) with engines just for generating electricity, making them more like EVs than traditional PHEVs, and cheaper than EVs too (Large electric SUVs need to have a battery with over 100 kWh to achieve a decent range, which makes them much more expensive). For most daily driving, they're all-electric, only using gas for long trips.
Extended-range EVs have grown so rapidly in China this year that they could even surpass the sales of traditional PHEVs, mostly produced by BYD, next year. I think it's a trend that could catch on globally, especially in North America. This could be the best solution before charging stations are available everywhere.
Driving a C-Max Energi which replaced a Fusion Energi. Runs fine in EV mode, doesn't need the gas engine to run at all. Only 20 miles all electric, but I'm retired and live in an urban environment and everything I need is nearby. I get 40 mpg on long trips running on gas. Can get an aftermarket replacement battery for around 4K, my 11 year old battery is still at 90% of original capactiy, so no need there. If you're a low mileage driver who lives near your needs, they can be ideal. When I go on trips, I don't bother plugging in, I just drive in hyybrid mode so don't have to concern myself with finding a charger. Costs me about 60 cents to chagre at home on 110 and takes about 5 hours if drained completely.
Perfect usage for phev!
Similar. I have a RAV4 Prime and get about 50 miles on EV about town, which I need because I drive a bit more than you, but still rarely need gas except for long trips, which I do take. For me when traveling long distance I also don't worry about charging, however, all other things being equal, I'll pick a hotel with a charger and if it happens to be available I'll charge when I arrive, why not, free 40 miles or so on the interstate the next day on the next leg of my trip. But if it's broken or being used, no worries, I just carry on in hybrid mode. Had a C-Max Energi a few years ago and loved it, what a horrible name for a great car lol. It was my first PHEV and other than terrible range in cold weather, it fit my needs quite well at the time.
I drove a 2023 PHEV Santa Fe. There was a definite difference in the driving experience vs the regular hybrid. Plus, there was a $5K-$6K difference in price. I bought the regular hybrid. I agree with some commenters that PHEVs can make sense in certain situations.
Maybe those are problems with USA models. I think European PHEVs from stallantis group or VAG are better balanced. I drive a cupra PHEV with 245 hp and the ev power and range is perfect for everyday use. For longer journeys where the battery gets discharged, the full hybrid mode is excellent and I get figures around 2-4 lt/100 km. Until EVs get minimum 800 km for the base models, PHEVs are a totally viable solution to the balance between ev mode and range anxiety.
I bought a 6 year old Prius V 5 years ago with 29,000 miles on it. Now have 119,000 miles on it and it is going strong. Just oil, trany, & coolant fluid changes. Bought cheap, runs cheap, cheap maintenance & insurance (liability only now saves a ton of cash), 42 MPG, and hauls 80 gallon water heaters with all the door closed. And now with the rising price of vehicles, it is worth the same now as when I bought it 5 years ago. Thanks Bidenomics!
Can i use solar to offset the price of the battery or lack of batteries in the future? Yes. If no batteries are avaible you can just remove them and drop the excess weight. Use the engine
More components = less space + more to fail + a more expensive fix. That 50c connector or sensor that fails is buried and will take 10 hours mechanics time to replace it. Battery pack configuration is custom to each manufacturer. Potentially batteries last a long time but the weight does not diminish over time but their propulsive value (charge state = range) does.
PHEVs will be viable when they get 100km range and you can DC fast charge them.
At that point you can fill up with gas on long trips AND fast charge for an extra 100km in 5 minutes.
It is much more practical for a lot of people to own a PHEV not being forced to rely solely on electric power to fuel their car, but still picking up much of the advantages of EVs at the same time. Minus price differences, a PHEV is beneficial over a hybrid for like 90% of drivers. I can get like 70 mpgs in my AWD SUV PHEV doing a 75-mile roundtrip in a PHEV vs a hybrid (which gets like 32 mpgs), then charge it up on my solar panels at home. Furthermore, PHEVs allow you to use the electric range when it makes sense, such as when stopped in gridlock traffic, so you can really dial in your energy usage for your precise needs. I often hold the EV range for when I get stuck in a jam or when in town. PHEVs are utilizing the advantages of battery power and spreading the 'battery resource wealth' over a larger number of vehicles. The battery for one EV would create like 8 PHEVs that are all capable of being just as 'green' as an EV for shorter drives, which is most drives for most people. And PHEVs are full on hybrid vehicles when that electric range runs out, so at baseline without the EV capabilities, they are roughly as efficient as a hybrid.Also, you are doing WAY better in and EV or PHEV than the Honda Pilot in the Tesla if you are powering up with a more sustainable energy mix. Even if you are driving 3X the number of miles. How many grams of CO2 and other pollutants is that Honda Pilot emitting? A whole bunch. About 200 lbs of CO2 over a 200-mile drive alone (10 gallons of gas x 20lbs of CO2 per gallon burned). How much pollution was emitted just delivering the Pilot's gasoline to the fuel station? The delivery of the fuel and the actual driving of the Tesla (or other EV) may have resulted in close to zero air pollution/greenhouse gas emissions. Imagine 100,000 Teslas driving around a dense metro area at one time vs 100,000 Pilots. Just a night and day difference in pollution levels. I do agree that less driving and more public transit is an answer to the problem of overall emissions and 'the future of transportation'. People need to chill on their long distance driving and use more sustainable options.
The best part of owning a PHEV is, if it was a Heat Pump, it is "essentially" a dual fuel vehicle that can work in EV mode, hybrid mode, or with the battery depleted, full ICE mode. if you live in an area that is at risk of long electricity outages and/or don't want to be trapped to the ever changing gas prices, you can adjust to each scenario. yes, the battery ranges are low but they will improve as the battery tech improves. yes the charging rates are low, but for those that charge at home overnight it is a moot point. 12 hours at level 1 to charge? that works perfectly for me and I don't need to have an electrician install an upgraded plug in my garage.
Everyone's driving situation is different. The U.S. Infrastructure for charging is a nightmare, but that will eventually improve (maybe). Meanwhile, for me, I am trending towards a PHEV over an EV ONLY because of charging access when I'm not home. Plus, I lease, and leases are eligible for the Federal Tax credits so that's $7500 off MSRP, making the price more in line with the vehicle's ICE trim. Also, by leasing, the battery degradation or other maintenance issues don't arise within the first 3 years. Then once the lease is over, in 2027 or so, either the battery technology and infrastructure has improved, and if not, you could always go back to an ICE vehicle. Or upgrade to a full EV at that point if the tech and charging speed does improve. I mean, Toyota is working on solid state batteries to replace Li-Ion, and hydrogen or ammonia-fueled engines may become a thing after years of research. Who knows? At least, I can predict that flying cars won't be a thing yet.
Also, getting a used Tesla is a better financial decision, but I personally would NEVER buy anything associated with Elon Musk!
Im glad to see a car reviewer acknowledging that car dependency is not a good thing!
thanks 😀
The bottom line is anything you have to plug in, forget it. Non plug in hybrids make some sense, but just to save a few dollars a week in fuel, do you really want the extra complexity and extra purchase price, and you still have to replace the HV battery at some stage?
EVs and PHEVS were more compelling when BEV had shorter ranges. But now with a majority doing over 400kms, access to 150kW chargers (and 95% charge at home) for the very rare time you do drive way over 400kms, I wouldn't base my purchase on that 5% scenario. Like I wouldn't want to by a pickup for the one time/year I go to a friend's cottage way outback.
You missed an indepth point of the new EV game that is all the rage!! “ Charger Charger Where’s a WORKING Charger, and will I find a working one before my car dies?” Sub-game is: @Oh what will I do for the next 30-50-90-120 minutes while charging my EV?”
Most EVs these days charge up to 80 percent pretty quick. They're not for every lifestyle. However, if you're regularly driving long distances, you could also buy a regular hybrid for much less money that doesn't weigh a ton or require a private investigator to buy at msrp (Prius prime and RAV4 prime)! I made this video because I used to think PHEVs were the best idea out, and then I started driving more of them.
My SantaFe charges at 10 miles an hour. 3:30 from empty. I get 2.4 miles/kWh
I have a proper wall charger set at 3.6kW
I really enjoyed this. A couple of things that you may want to add. How does the PHEV model handle heat? The Outlander PHEV has a heat pump and can heat using its ev battery. Most other PHEV models turn on their ICE engine to heat their car. The other area that no one really discusses when they discuss PHEVs.. is the maintenance cost for the PHEV? I have a 2018 Model 3, and I have had no yearly maintenance cost.. no oil changes.. no new brakes... etc. for the 5 years that I have owned it. The same for my 2022 Model Y. I have been looking into PHEVs for another geographic location.. I have come to a similar conclusion. The PHEV Outlander is my preference, but a loaded used 2022 Model Y would be a lot cheaper.. especially with the new Model Y redesign coming. Once again great work on this.
You have done a lot here. But, I cannot agree. I have a Kia CEED SW. Yes, I am in Europe... the place with very high fuel prices. I drive to work 5 days a week... 40 miles round trip. I drive set on EV.. and can drive electrically for 95+% of my trip. So, I am a very efficient EV each workday. On the weekends, I go shopping and do local things... always as an EV. I plug my vehicle into a standard wall socket every day. So, I have not seen a filling station in a long time. Sometimes, I go on a longer trip (100- 200 miles) and set the car on hybrid mode. Then I get about 4 - 5 liters / 100km ( about 50-60mpg with 4 people and other things on board). The overall effect is very fuel efficient and environmentally friendly.
Used correctly PHEVs can be very economical. My wife uses a '17 Volt for her commutes. We charge every night. Her range is still at 49-50 miles after 6 years (started at 52). With home solar and TOU pricing, we only pay 9 cents/kWh starting at midnight. Even with charging her car every night, our total electricity bill for all of 2022 was just over $500. Yes PHEVs are not for everyone, but can be extremely efficient in the right situations. Unless you can use the Tesla network charging at public chargers is aggravating at best and catastrophic at worst.
Say, if you always drive less than the EV-only distance and never use the gas, what would happen to the old gas and the gas engine itself? No one talks about this possible problem.
Change the oil and it should be alright (more time could say otherwise). I was going to talk about this more here but after researching, I could find nothing remotely conclusive to support that it causes problems.
You must think about using the fuel in about 6 months. Not a big deal. I need to drive some longer drives and run on Hybrid mode..I.e. I use electrically supported fuel burning and make sure that the fuel tank goes to
I think most of these cars are smart enough to force the engine on periodically in order to address these issues.
@@toronado455 Not the real issue here, which is that gasoline gets old and becomes less efficient and in the worst case, can even damage an engine. So, you have to keep track and run the tank down to
@@labradoodleparadiesTakes a LONG time for gas to go bad.
I think it's a better use of batteries to put them in PHEVs and HEVs. EVs only get 1000 charge cycles while PHEVs get 5000 and HEVs 100k
Depends on where your electricity comes from but potentially yes depending on how you drive the phev!
I recently bought a new RAV4 Prime and the wait was about 1 month for the color I wanted (red), with black and blue ones available on the lot. Hopefully the wait time issue continues to get better.
Where in the world did you wait just a month for the arrival of a new Rav prime?
@@zekew7546 Buffalo NY
Well mate I for one cannot see the advantage of owning and running a hybrid vehicle because I live in a rural area in Australia and the mileage I would get from the battery which in my mind would be just excess weight after the battery runs flat and the iCE then has to take up the slack! Plus waiting for the battery to charge would just be so annoying and as it is we do not have the infrastructure to be able to charge at will and after seeing other places in the world and California comes to mind the number of charging stations that one fellow who was testing an EV found that many of the charging stations simply did not work or were broken or would not accept his payment method that alone is just pure madness.
Here in BC Canada, PHEV’s like the RAV4 Prime beggar logic. Wait lists of a year or more, and out the door prices well over $ 70,000 when they do arrive, and heaven help you if you are financing that at 7 or 8 percent compounded for five years or more! My goal was an all electric range of at least 60 km / 40 miles to justify the expense and complexity of these cars. As a rural resident this would at least allow routine outings for groceries and appointments to be sans fossil fuel. The list of PHEV’s with (especially) winter range approaching this is short. Then add the appalling dealer wait lists, mark-ups, luxury tax, GST, etc. and even the “EV rebates” don’t allow you to bring the premium you pay for these vehicles down to a reasonable level. I can buy a lot of gasoline for the $20,000 premium on a RAV4. Full EV’s in rural Canada are just not a sensible option. No infrastructure, and a rapidly increasing demand for what little access to charging you have. It seems that the best we can do is still a typical hybrid if you want to reduce annual operating costs, and reduce carbon emissions, without breaking the bank. The only PHEV’s I would even consider are ones that came well equipped for under the $55,000 luxury tax threshold, qualified for full rebates, were readily available, AND delivered an EV range of 60 km. Current selection : ZERO.
Reality check: *most* people drive less than 40-50 miles per day *most* of the time, but occasionally drive up to several hundred miles in trip.
Consequence: any vehicle that gives much more than 50 miles of range is *wasting* energy during daily use (due to the added weight and volume).
Therefore: any means of supplying further range (both generation and refueling) ought to be designed to optimize efficiency during the sub-50 mile daily driving-not during the extended range driving-whether than be a larger battery, a generator or fuel cell, or a larger gas tank.
Conclusion: most people will greatly benefit from a PHEV-but not those who either frequently drive more than the battery range or do not have access to slow charging at home or work.
Yep, now let’s make more PHEVs like Toyota’s and Mitsubishi’s that aren’t just overcomplicated, overpriced, and hilariously heavy compliance boxes! Something like the chevy volt would be awesome to have back on the market for the masses.
Pure EV will always have 'range anxiety' issues. Besides, we talk about how clean they are but no one talks about the production process and the dark side of it. What to do it spent batteries in years to come?
As a uber delivery driver, I avg 69 mpg. That's at 6k miles. Frd fusion energi.
My wifes Sante Fe PHEV typically gets over 1000 miles per tank.
Sooooo convenient.
My Volt gets 4000 miles per tank.
So an EV is only 4% less carbon emitting than an average ICE vehicle? Get a higher MPG ICE vehicle like a Civic or Corolla and an EV is worse then.
No it’s not. A higher mpg does not necessarily mean less carbon emissions. An EV releases no evaporative emissions which significantly contributes to its lower footprint overall. It’s quite a simple logic. Only reason why PHEVs are inefficient when not using solely battery is because you carry a battery and aren’t using it. It affects fuel economy and it affects the car's handling.
The base price of a Tesla model 3 RWD is currently $38,990 plus a current tax credit of $7,500 if one qualifies. This is less than many ICE. What many don’t know is that EVs are very efficient. Source: fueleconomy government (gov) website: The MPGe equivalent of the model 3 is 132 combined city/highway, city is 138, highway 136. No ICE comes close. 25 kWh/100 miles, do the math. No oil changes,no tuneups, very seldom brake jobs if ever thanks to regen braking. Estimated savings on gas is $1,000 a yr or more plus if you have a home and charge there, esp if you have TOU rates savings will be higher. Having solar panels and net metering lowers your costs even more. For most people cost of ownership will be much less than driving an ICE. As people realize this they are switching to EVs. Many are not aware of Tesla’s ever growing Supercharger network which will be opening up most stations to non-Teslas starting next year in the US, already open to all EVs in Europe. See the supercharge ^ info site, which is updated daily, quite amazing, ditto the Find Us page at Tesla’s website updated qtrly. Both sites show the global SC network map. Btw, Tesla EV batteries last 300,000 to 500,000 miles, how many years is that for you?
according to klaus ev hummer = good, ice honda civic = bad
That 2023 Toyota Tundra I’m now driving? It replaced a 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe, which I drove for only six months. The Tundra is a V6 twin turbo, and I am getting far better gas mileage with it: 18mpg for the Jeep, and 23mpg+ with the Tundra (I’m not even exaggerating.) More than the MPG, I switched because the Jeep relies so much on the electric motors that the ICE is under-powered. In city driving when you’re out of juice, the Jeep’s 4 cylinders sound like a Cessna on takeoff.
Tundra conventional ICE or the Hybrid-MAX?
@@toronado455- ICE.
It's hard to find what seems to be objective criticism of ev's from car channels but I thought this was fair and I mostly agree. Would be interested in you expanding on your last point regarding the Tesla model x vs Honda Pilot. Why does distance traveled mattter with regard to environmental impact?
wear and tear on roads and tires?
One use case where PHEV makes the most sense is mobile office/worksite and camping, as well as backup power at your home in a power outage. The PHEV engine as an on-board generator means you have extended use of your HVAC and built-in inverter before you need to go find a charger (in the case of an EV) or a gas pump (in the case of a regular hybrid). It just lets you stay off-grid longer. It makes it probably the best "prepper" vehicle.
That’s definitely true, it’s just unfortunate that most of the off-road oriented or capable models have such bad ranges!
Although hybrid (some, at least) can be set up as back up generators at home, or run overnight for camping temp control, granted, using some gas.
I don’t know how this video got on my list. I gave it a shot but had to quit within minutes. Dude is pulling blanket statements out of his arse, left and right. A 2nd gen Chevy Volt, for instance, gets 50-60 miles of pure extricate before the engine kicks in. My 1st gen is 10 years old and still gets 32 miles of electric range of the original 38 miles. And it’s got 170k miles. Don’t get me wrong, I love my Porsche Taycan, but the PHEVs have their uses too. Hence, YMMV.
I hear you, this video is more negative and topical than my usual stuff. I do back up each statement but it is a personal take. I wish we still had a volt like that, the best ranges these days are like 40 miles. I'd also point out that any general statement I make here is followed up with me explaining an exception or two. I made this because I used to think they were an amazing idea until I started driving and researching more of the current ones. I've found some to make a ton of sense (I point them out in the video) and I've also found many to be unimpressive for the money and extremely niche. In the US especially, I think a regular hybrid or a full EV would be more beneficial to more people, not all, and some PHEVs are far superior to others.
Here in Northern Europe you got a tax break for owning an EV you paid no emissions taxes this was around 5 years ago , now they are realising that the weight of these cars is cracking up and wearing the road surfaces more than fossil fuels cars every did , so the tax breaks are not as generous as they once were. I don't really get how they say EVs are greener anyway the Lithium for the batteries has to be mined by people in third world countries these poor people get paid minimum wage and the Lithium slowly kills them, you then have to ship the Lithium and the nickel for these batteries around the world on Diesel Tanker ships not so green, then when the batteries reach the end of their life cycle they cannot be fully recycled as the recycle process releases toxins and heavy metals into the atmosphere again not as green as everyone thinks.
If your car has a chimney its not electric! I have been driving BEVs for 15 years now and most of my journeys are long ones as my work in forestry takes me to remote areas.
My longest journey was just over 500 miles with a lunch break & a 40 minute charge in France.
You in Europe, you don't even know what's the meaning of remote area 😂😂😂😂 remote area in your place is like in the between city in my country, and if you stuck in remote area because your EV run out of juice = death sentence in my country. Yeah alot of European tourists die here because they think it's not necessary to buy emergency petrol or spare tired.. Let alone with EV
At 4:47 some errors. Ride quality for heavier vehicles is better, better sprung to unsprung weight ratio. PHEVs also benefit from a lower center of gravity and better front to rear ratio . . .
Sure, add weight and make the spring stiffer, that’ll help with ride quality 🥴🥴
@@Realistick Ask a truck driver. A loaded truck rides better than an empty truck, even with air suspension, which provides the proper spring rate in each circumstance Basic physics.
@@billurban1581sounds great, super comparable 🫨🫨
The voiceover is so funny 🤣
Solution: install higher density LiFePO4 battery- offers 60-70 miles range. The Clarity plug-in runs 50 miles per charge.
Just don't look for a tan interior with Tesla or a display in front of you or details on what battery you are buying or ground clearance.
Towing is a reason for a PHEV. EV’s have VERY short towing ranges. Most of our driving is
I do ok with my Ford escape plug in hybrid I'll buy a full ev next time 😊