Andrew Torrance - Do Heaven and Hell Really Exist?
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
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What kind of God would create Hell? Does the nature of Hell offer insight into what that kind of God would be like? Does the truth of Christianity, Judaism, Islam depend on the reality of Hell? Infinite torment for finite sin? Are there other interpretations of scripture? Traditional views of Hell are odious and repugnant. Who’d want reality to be like that?
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Andrew B. Torrance is a senior lecturer in theology at the University of St. Andrews.
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Closer To Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
This smiling charming man has just explained in less than 10 minutes why everyone should be staying as far away from Christianity as possible. Eternal damnation for what, a single choice? Screw this.
While I am not Christian I was under the assumption so long you pledged yourself to Jesus you were saved and sins absolved
@@Fluffylives exactly my point. And if I don't like Jesus and don't want to go to hell, I'm screwed by this religion. No middle grounds. Very archaic in its thinking.
@@im_pianoit’s downright primitive
Right. Screw Christianity.
Satan was a charmer and still is.
The older I become, the more ridiculous all this seems
Yes - As my father used to say, it is all man made fairy tales.
Blind faith is what all religions demand. Do not use your brain.
Well said. So true...
@@ts8206 none of that happened at 3. None of it.
@@ts8206
Or in heaven, whose reality is it?
Are your grandparents babies, young adults or old?
In heaven, does your grand parents see you as a baby, an adult, or as old?
Who changes whose diapers… who carries who in there arms….
If everyone is at the same age, then that be be more like hell…
The guest says it is metaphorical, but plenty of fanatics believe in its just existence quite literally, and allow this to drive their political viewpoints, voting habits, etc., which is dangerous. Eternal punishment for temporal crimes is a viewpoint that is in no way justifiable, despite the well-meaning ecumenical conversations of whether it is literally a real place, or not.
I think only a madman could think of Hell or Heaven literally as physical places. But nevertheless, the idea of some metaphysical realm where the sinner (whatever his or her sins were) is supposed to be for eternity seems to contradict the idea of omnibenevolent God.
If you reject God, He’ll let you be in a place without God here and in the afterlife.
@@rickm5853 I’d like to live in a world without racist bigoted science denying Christians trying constantly to make this planet a living hell of hate, division and intolerance.
@@rickm5853Hard to reject someone who chooses not to introduce himself.
@@jerklecirque138 He has revealed Himself to us in many ways.
He made it up as he went along. Looked clearly uncomfortable and had no idea
It's why theology is never exhausted. It's a "discipline" in which it is permissible to invent any story one wants without any requirement to make it internally coherent or externally valid
Heaven and hell can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways for those who believe. It’s interesting that these faiths find themselves in need to update their beliefs. So, it was believed absolutely that hell was fire and brimstone, in the Christian faith, at least. But modern theological philosophers try to pretend that the old beliefs are just metaphors. But they weren’t. They were believed to be real. One wonders if they really understand their faith. So here, the argument makes little sense. If someone “turns away from god” and fire and brimstone weren’t real, and hell was “living” without the presence of god, wouldn’t that be what they want and wouldn’t that be satisfying to them, for all of eternity? It would seem so. Therefore, it would be a reward. And of course, he never actually answered the question.
They're good at twisting and turning.
There's also the possibility that hell does exist and we already are living in it 😂
@@digitalfootballer9032 Right!
@@digitalfootballer9032 amusing. But the purpose to hell is to have you know you’re in it and why. If you don’t then there’s no purpose.
What happened to Closer to Truth?
But God by definition permeates everything. If Hell is the absence of God then we end up with a contradiction in terms
Absence must be understood as personal not atmospheric or permeating people by osmosis. Psalm 139:7-8, “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.” The “absence” of God is that He will withdraw His personal relational presence from YOU…..as you requested.
@@JohnSmith-wu6yx I made the conclusion based on what the guest says - "Hell is a place where God is not present". It's clear that neither Heaven nor Hell should be thought of as physical places, but nevertheless, a realm such as Hell (whatever it could be) where God "is not present" sounds as a contradiction. From what you said follows that God keeps his presence in Hell, but here's another contradiction - the concept of God (for example, benevolence) doesn't really go well with what Hell is (at least in accordance with the way the Bible depicts Hell, namely a realm where the sinner is bound to suffer for eternity)
@@JohnSmith-wu6yxlet us start with the word His. His implies a sexual reference, for the biological reasons to procreate. In that choice alone you are already claiming the worship of man. Since we don’t know what god looks like, why did your scholars make god in man’s image. What an ego your scholars had! And you worship that?
@@JohnSmith-wu6yxwhat’s that verse where god drowned babies because he didn’t like their parents?
@@JohnSmith-wu6yx that God…so sassy and spiteful 💁♂️ Chill out, God, it’s not that serious.
Hahaha. Thanks, Robert. These videos are fun too
I know MANY people who have turned away from god, then later came back. I myself have done that.
I appreciate how the host pushed back a little
I would like to see more of this on this topic
The short answer is no. The long answer is also no.
Spoiler: he’s just winging it
Did he said that hell is a place without god? Well sign me in, that sounds like heaven to me
I’ll pray for you.
I’d settle for a World just without Christians. That would be heaven enough. No longer having to deal with their anti-science nonsense and targeting of others with their racism, bigotry, hate and intolerance.
According to some Reformed theologians, in heaven God will reign with all his love and in hell he will be the judge. No, there is no place absent from God.
@@kreativbraseu6639 I know of no “reformed theologians” with the name “Some”. I’m not aware of any of their quotes either.
@@rickm5853 do want to know Who said that? It was a Brazilian Reformed Pastor, Augustus Nicodemus.
He said: "Hell is not the absence of God. There is no place where God is not! He is also present in hell, but in judgement and wrath!"....
There’s no shame in saying you don’t know.
There is and should be more for saying yo do when you can't!
Really, what's the point of Christianity when you are clearly just making it up as you go along like this guy. He needs to sit down and be honest with himself, retain all the good bits of Christianity; be good to others, be tolerant, choose love over hate etc etc while getting rid of all the anachronistic stuff about heaven & hell, condoning slavery, persecuting homosexuality etc etc. Adopt it into his own personal philosophy about how to live life and go from there.
for some people this life can be a definition of either or... it's sad but many people don't understand the source of their suffering while others seem to have been blessed beyond any odds...
The chosen ones, isn't it? So it seems that God has , his favorites 🤔! Es un granuja, isn't he?
@@enedinopadilla6320 I don't pretend to understand the mind of God and much less call him a rascal (granuja) or anything else while being limited in my correct understanding... the observation was intended to contrast the difference between the befallen good and evil upon certain categories of people, that's all...
If reality is a simulation, we live in Hell.
Yes because we have suffer mental or physic pain. And why? Like punishment. Maybe our past lifes. Who knows...all speculations.
@@kipponi Yaldabaoth knows.
@dubsar or we could be playing a game with the difficulty setting on very hard mode
@@jhunt5578 If this world is a game, as you suggest, god's name is John Kramer.
Heaven and hell allready exist in our mind .
And only in the minds of people
@@user-gk9lg5sp4y Well i am not sure because as a Hindu i beleive something more than that .
@@chayanbosu3293 I don't, but none of will know for sure in this life.
@@halcyon2864 May be one of the reason for hellish mind , but BHAJBATAM ( VAINSAB SCRIPTURE) says more than that.BHAGBAT GITA also says about hell and heaven.
To all the people who believe in an afterlife, what do you remember before you were born? If a stroke patient's left side goes numb, does the "consciousness" from their damaged nerves get uploaded to "heaven" or "hell"? Your pre-birth nonexistence will be no different than your post-death nonexistence. It's anthropocentric to believe that a nonexistent pre-big-bang entity would have a immaterial and nonphysical storage device just to store the sum of memories from a temporary and transitionary species.
Man, this is just a question the answer to which we can't know, I agree that from a physical standpoint all the odds are against any afterlife, at least in the sense Christianity depicts it. But, here's one interesting detail. If something metaphysical exists, there's just no way for us to find out in this life because the metaphysical is inaccessible to the material world. From this follows a paradoxical conclusion - no matter how improbable the idea of something immaterial may be, this probability doesn't really say anything, in fact, the improbability of some immaterial realms (from a standpoint of science) only proves that science has nothing to do with it in the first place. I am, for example, is not a religious person, but I don't think that science can ever reduce everything to materialism, there's always the remainder, something that can never be explained materialistically. I think Arthur Schopenhauer explained it very well
*"o all the people who believe in an afterlife, what do you remember before you were born?"*
... Everyone who reads your comment has only known "Existence." Nobody knows what nonexistence is nor what it would be like to not exist. Based on that, why do you believe we become nonexistent after we knowingly exist?
"Existence" is all about existing. What does "Existence" gain by having parts of it suddenly become nonexistent?
I really like this post. The agent that caused the Big Bang is before time, matter, and space. There is no hard drive or anything flesh, you can logically believe there’s nothing or go with the evidence there’s something beyond time, space, and matter.
@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLCI think that you are mixing existence with consciousness. All that we are will go on "existing" after we die, namely our cells, atoms and energy will transform and go on according to physics. It's just that this "existing" things are no longer arranged in a way that they can be conscious.
@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC I don't "believe" in anything.
Beliefs are based on a primal state of mind deriving from one's circumstances, mood, or relationships with others. Beliefs are mostly from the layman pushing a theistic, defeatist, atheistic, conservative, nihilistic, liberal, libertarian, socialist, or anthropocentric agenda to mask their hidden desires for a transcendence they will never find. Beliefs don't require many-valued logic, Dempster-Shafer theory, or probability theory with rules for inference such as Bayes' rule. What I'm about to say is based on systematic observations, measurements, experiments, and apparatuses to test and modify hypotheses.
It is conceivable to experience nonexistence. Remove your tastebuds, perforate your eardrum, sniff something to eliminate your sense of smell, gouge your eyes, and damage your nerves so you can't feel anything. Consider the sum of these things while contemplating your absence before birth, and it will become more comprehensible.
According to the Population Reference Bureau in Washington, around 107 billion individuals have ever lived on the planet. According to Paul Reber, a psychology professor at Northwestern University, the human brain can retain 2.5 petabytes of information, or 2 quadrillion 500 trillion bytes.
Assume that all human memories, whether they are alive or dead, total 267 septillion 500 sextillion bytes of data.
MIT's Seth Lloyd postulates that the observable universe is compiled of 10^90 bits. This means that all human memories only make up 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000214% of the 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 bits in the observable universe.
Why would this pre-big-bang entity arbitrarily store 267 septillion 500 sextillion bytes of all human memories? Would all of the 267 septillion 500 sextillion bytes of human memories be useful or have any utility? I understand that in the far future, we may be able to construct a physical storage device to hold the consciousness of the Opabinia, Plagiosaurus, Qin Shi Huang, Iannis Xenakis, or Emmy Noether. But why should we have to back up every single human being's consciousness or some random drug addict in Kensington, Pennsylvania? It would just be an experimental control on what not to do.
So no, there is no nonphysical anthropocentric pre-big-bang diety that is going to arbitrarily reward you or back up your consciousness in a separate apparatus. Our existence works based on the continued existence of organisms that are best adapted to their environment, with the extinction of others.
This guy sounds like he’s trying to explain to a teacher why he couldn’t do his homework.
And no dog to blame!
@@glenncurry3041 hahaha precisely right
That anyone can create such an incredibly ignorant and irrational word salad out of the desperation to justify the hatred and killing caused by a random accumulation of anonymous texts is horrendous! And cramming this down the throats of out most vulnerable, our children, is child abuse!
Let's assume for a moment the divine is real, and religious experiences are contact with a divine presence. How do we explain the incredible diversity of religious experiences, beliefs and teachings? I would have thought that in there was a single divine presence that could be contacted, that it would present consistent religious experiences, teachings, discernible spiritual entities. If in one country we found belief in a single god that preferred particular sacrifices, forms of worship, codified religious rules, etc and this was the universal divinity then when we discover a new country that also had contact with the divine, wouldn't we expect to find all the same beliefs, forms of worship, religious laws, etc? After all their source should be the same, right?
What we actually find is that even within the same culture, with the same religious traditions, and the same religious texts almost no two believers actually believe the same thing. Ive seen this myself, where religious members of my own family, going to the same church, have very different ideas about theology and religious teachings about morals and how to interpret them. They clearly pick and choose which bits of scripture to follow, and how to follow them. They're good people, trying to do the right thing, and they feel that their religion is a positive force in their lives. I'm sure it is. Yet they're not actually very far away from making it up as they go along.
This is a classic example of this, what is heaven? What is hell? Everyone seems to make up their own version of it depending on their own personal upbringing, ethical commitments, theological beliefs and imagination.
Different religions are basically just different concepts of a similar bigger picture and the concepts vary so greatly because cultures vary greatly. And this is not a defence of religion, just my general perception. I am not a religious person so I have no horse in the race here. My personal belief is that religion is unnecessary in order to believe there is a higher power.
Many illustrations have been made of the sun. Some over land, some oversee, some in the morning, some at sunset. All painted and appearing different but nonetheless of the same sun.
@@xenphoton5833 So would you agree that every depiction of the divine, from the Kali to Quetzalcoatl, Baal and the god of Abraham are the same god just looked at different ways?
Ja: hell on earth and heaven in fantasia-land ( is located somewhere in our brains! )...
Tom Campbell has ideas that should be added to the conversation.. would enjoy seeing Robert interview him
The main issue with Andrew Torrance's answer in the video is that he proposes that people will be given all the information about G-d after their death but that some will still choose to reject G-d after that. If being with G-d is the best thing that can possibly happen to a person, then why would a person that receives this information AND also understands it still choose to be separate from G-d? I could understand someone making the wrong choice if they didn't have all the information or had the information but misunderstood it, but it doesn't make sense to me that someone with complete understanding of all of the relevant information would knowingly choose eternally suffering alone over being in a relationship with a G-d that loved them and could make them eternally happy.
Exactly why people with the most information, the top scientist, e.g. 97% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences are non-believers.
Might want to get a new keyboard, yours is randomly messing up the "o".
Obviously the concepts exist at least in language form. That's called semantics. How all that doctrine translates to what we call " reality " should be the question.
Of course. Heaven is sitting in my LazyBoy listening to Jazz while reading a book. Hell is other people.
Heaven and Hell exist in 2 places?
1. In Abrahamic religious books.
2. In the mind of Abrahamic religions followers.
How does one explain the many documented Near Death Experiences?
Scientist explain NDEs as just what the brain sometimes does as a body is dying-with Muslims seeing Allah, Christians seeing Jesus and people generally having the kind of experiences that are meaningful to them, personally. But it doesn’t seem to happen to all people by a long shot, with most people brought back from the brink of death, experiencing nothing. It’s been thoroughly researched and has never, not once, not even close, revealed any kind of proof at all of an afterlife. It also seems to have some resemblance to the kind of dissociative experiences people report when experiencing trauma. There’s a lot of real peer reviewed studies out there that can be looked into by those interested. And a lot of made up nonsense, also, published in books and magazines with no peer review or dependence on the scientific method at all. If NDEs really did show proof of an afterlife, scientists and researchers would be all over it. As it would probably be the most important scientific discovery in all of scientific history and a guarantee for winning the Nobel Prize for Science.
It’s interesting how people make the best with what they got but, then when certain points blurs it’s our responsibility to pose a proper theory. Example, book of life is a record of life, like a blank record only captures the active waves, once the print is done well, we have a record. The playback happens then. Or, there’s is no record, then who’s to judge, make a bunch of noise who cares.
Children often have imaginary friends,and usually grow out of it.The delusional,who cannot come to terms with reality,cling to the imaginary,because they lack the strength to accept that life just is,that the universe just is.No more no less.
infinite time / zero time could be real residences of heaven and hell beyond physical world? energies from physical world are translated back to infinite time or zero time? for heaven, energy is directed towards infinite time?
They all start with diversion and you will notget straight answers out of a religious person they simply do not know! 🤷
Is that fair? Such an awesome question....
Bible Heaven and Hell are obviously silly fictions, but for many they are the only hope they have.
Yes. With this life we are on probation time.
4:48 I think you're doing just fine, Doc. 🙂
Go Bluejays!!
Life is short,eternity forever.
Connectioned or disconnected.
What is the image of God?
Is it the image in which you are made?
If there was a beginning why didn’t you look for the image in which you were made?
By necessity you disallow by what you disavow.
What else are you missing by what you disallow?
Fractal meanings.
If you find any structure in the image of a fractal pattern then one ought to consider the nature of such a pattern.
Everything is recorded but not everything is recalled ( biologically).
I look at it this way, that this question cannot be fully answered simply because we do not fully know what is afterlife because what is known is the life we are living not the life after death. People have all sorts of beliefs and stories relating to death but it varies to what each person believes to be true.. We have our conjecture and what we think we know from our pathway ideas and beliefs as well as what was written in the past in religious scriptures. However our views and knowledge has changed and grown from what was written in many of these ancient texts. If you are going to ask this question then you need to have a variety of perspectives and soon know there is no consensus answer.
If I said, when you die, you live in a fish tank, you wouldn’t say, you can’t fully know that isn’t true. Because it is clearly not true. But because the book is old and millions believe, we an afraid to say, that’s stupid, of course it isn’t true.
First of all it’s a contradiction to an all loving god, secondly it’s the same as every other myth, full of magic and fantasy.
heaven and hell are right here on earth right now, after you are dead you are gone completely - consider that nobody has proven otherwise
"God does all that he can." Uh oh, it's one of those rocks that he can't lift, again....
Who still believes in these ludicrous fables?
the solution,:Closer to Truth Julianne Baggini Is Death Final?
That was Dark Age thinking to scare people from doing deplorable things.
Listening to this person describe his view of heaven and hell is akin to someone listening to a caveman describe his belief in a primitive god, either one has absolutely no factual basis.
No. Next question.
We all are capable of doing Good and Evil or going to Hell or Heaven and Consciouness and Freewill will help us making that choice.
Who does more evil in the World today than Christians? With all their hate, intolerance, bigotry, racism, science denial, anti-democracy, embrace of authoritarian leaders and eve lately, calls for civil war and violence?
Hell heaven really exist but untouched by this physical world and that is why wise human beings search for liberation and they ultimately become enlightened.i think from my perspective.
@@halcyon2864 but the question do why some one suffers pain and another one get happiness?
Dude please listen Prem rawat lecture, an international speaker on the topic of personal peace.where his aim is to guide people to feel the nature sustaining the entire creation resides within the heart of every human being.
This man is in way over his head on this question, but if you keep posing this question to enough christian believer's, you'll get better God-guided answers, so just keep searching,
one way of approaching this question is hearing the answers on why reincarnation is at odds with the traditional christian narrative, to understand why eternal punishment is
justified from only at best 80 to 90 years of earthly disobedience.
In that case we are in hell on Earth.
"Do Heaven and Hell Really Exist?"....only in the mind of some.....".
This type of belief in God is so minutely relevant to all the many billions of people who have lived, died, are alive that have, or had no concept of this idea, it's such arrogant archaic nonsense
Without any reference to God I think both "heaven" and "hell" are both possible in this Earthly life, and I think I've had a taste of both in my life!!! It is a state of mind, and the truly "blessed" people are those in control of their emotions and decision-making, any notions of an afterlife heaven or hell sound like myth and mythology to me, who can condemn me to eternal hell without experiencing my life and all it's inequities!!!
Not so sure about Heaven, but Hell does indeed exist at 31° 30' 0.00" N;
34° 28' 0.01" E
If dreams are real, then all fantasies are.
The entire purpose of human existence is a free will counterpart for God. Heaven is the word we're throwing around here that means making a choice for Him. Hell is choosing to remain absent from him. It's not hard to grasp.
Give me one good reason to believe that they do exist. I'll wait but I won't hold my breath.
Do you believe the single cell organism exist?I wonder, do you think the single cell organism believes you exist?
@@xenphoton5833 lol you're talking as if single cell organism has capacity to think about what exists and doesn't
what are you 3 yo?
@@aiya5777 💨
How does Heaven differ from our current existence here on planet Earth?
We've all got wings
@@jhunt5578, why do you want wings? Why do you want to live forever?
All will be revealed one day.
God knows who will believe Him or not and their final destination is based on this knowledge. " The Lord knows those who are His."
So he just loves torturing humans for kicks! Got it!
Hello. I see an interesting thing here. The Eastern world is full of theoreticism when it comes to science without any experimentalism.
However, in the sphere of religion, they have experimentalism as well as theorism.
In the world of science, the Western world has a lot of theoreticism and experimentalism, whereas in the sphere of religion, it's always theoreticism and no experimentalism!
And there I think lies the confusion in the idea of the question of heaven and hell or other deep spiritual questions.
Only exists in Mythology
The Church in the beginning believed in reincarnation and only changed it at one of the Counsels.
Is it true that Jesus taught reincarnation, but it was took out of the Bible?
Yes, this is easy to ridicule and I can see this heading down a “Monte Python” script - but I think there is something about accepting your inner “spirituality” and rejecting it. It’s not confined to any sort of scripture. It is: be true to thyself. Everyone who is born is attached to their inner spiritual “being” and it is only through life that we either retain our inner belief system or ignore it. Being at peace with yourself is “heaven”. Hating yourself is “hell”. Have you fought the good fight? Yada yada…
Long and short term memory?
Really?
czcams.com/video/hpTCZ-hO6iI/video.html&feature=share
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If you have memory wrong what else are you missing?
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Inside an imbedded Julia set of a Mandelbrot set at twice the depth of the imbedded Julia set is a mini imbedded Mandelbrot set within the imbedded Julia set. Still within the imbedded Mandelbrot set is the memory of where: which Julia set it is Imbedded in.
924 trillion gods. Living without a 'god' sounds like heaven not hell. Luckily there's Leprechauns in the afterlife and perfumed farting fluffy ducks to bathe with while smoking marshmallows. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Good luck!
@@halcyon2864 I made it up but it happens to be 109% true according to my new book called 'Making up the Numbers.' If you believe hard enough anything is possible to make up and there will always be someone who will believe it even if it's just yourself! 🙃😂👍
Question: do heaven and hell exist? Let’s ask 1 christian bloke.
If there isn't a heaven, this guy is going to be rather cheesed off to say the least when he does die 🤔
How can a grown man actually believe that? To actually swallow this utter tripe at his age is beyond me. I made up my mind at the age of seven that there was no such thing as a God, I knew it. I'm now seventy three and mind has never faultered.
Can a grown man believe a single cell organism? Do you think a single cell organism can believe in a grown man?
@@xenphoton5833 What are you talking about? What single cell anything believes or even thinks?
@@toni4729you missed his point. He's saying that the human condition is too small to grasp the concept of God. It's like an amoeba trying to understand the existence and the concept of a human being.
@@aneikei Considering that man actually wrote the Bible, who do think you're trying to fool?
@@toni4729 incorrect, the correct phrasing is "considering that man actually transcribed the bible".
Is it safe to say that no one really knows anything, everyone is just speculating and there's nothing wrong about that😅
Children are killed by parents "speculating" rather than taking them to medical science based doctors. There is something very wrong with this.
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If a spider an extend its mind via a grid circle then what is the tree doing with a grid circle cross section?
What is mind?
Memory?
Consciousness?
How can a man mistake his wife for a hat and no nde is multiple persons in a single experience?
Yes I saw the old video with Ramachandran
What kind of channel are you, "Closer To Truth?"
Scientific?
Well…"Do heaven and hell really exist?" is NOT, a scientific question. Where are your 🧠?
Hell….🤔?……seems
like we’re already here.
Modeling their make believe to be palatable and more socially acceptable is another step away from this mythological worldview.
So, the “omnipresent” god is not present in hell.
According to some Reformed theologians, in heaven God will reign with all his love and in hell he will be the judge. No, there is no place absent from God.
So many different versions of Christianity
Only in the minds of the misguided.
Well then. You do not understand the full Mandelbrot nature
1. God is The Almighty and created the entire universe and absolutely everything that exists in it, therefore including good and evil or at least their foundations.
2. If God were only love or were or wanted good, he could not have created evil or suffering.
3. However, if there was only evil, this would be normal and there would be no prospect of anything different.
4. For evil to exist and be perceived, good must exist as a contrast.
5. Therefore the deduction is that God is and wants evil.
No, the answer is No.
Religion means hallucination.
None of this made any sense.
Heaven and hell are belief systems.
No, and they never have
The confidence that these people have that a god exists and an afterlife is astounding. Where do these people get there information from? A book?
I’ve had a real demon on my chest,it was not a dream or nightmare,I get mine from proof.
It was muscular and it felt like it wanted my soul,hell and heaven for sure exists the ones who don’t believe it when they take there lasts breath on this earth will find out.
@@ANT1714 what did this 'real demon' look like?
@@derekallen4568 very muscular and large about as big as my queen mattress,it was past horror.
Anyone that try’s to tell you hell or heaven ain’t real is a idiot who has never been thru anything on this earth.
Estoy verdaderamente impresionado por la audacia de este imbecil!
😂.
if life is the result of material processes, then eternal consciousness is inevitable.
How does that follow?
I actually do think consciousness is eternal and can't be created or destroyed, but not because life is a physical process. 🤔
@@BugRib if space-time is infinite and matter is finite, every atomic arrangement will repeat an infinite number of times.
If your brain makes mind, your mind will repeat an infinite number of times.
The gaps (when you don’t exist) between are experienced as instant, because without conscious, time does not exist for you, personally.
You’re a person in infinite repeat. You strobe in and out of existence as random processes configures atomic arrangements that constitute you.
Much in the same way random processes reproduce hydrogen molecules, over and over.
If you believe in materialism.
@@dr_shrinkerInfinite time doesn't mean infinite combinations or infinite living creatures. The heat death of the universe, for example, would have time marching on but with no available free energy for constructing bodies and living lives.
@@not_enough_space true , heart death is certain but you aren’t thinking big enough.
this universe is one of infinite universes in the multiverse. Yes. The heat death is certain, but in the infinite multiverse, it’s irrelevant.
My comment still holds. I think you misunderstand the nature of the multiverse theory OR the nature of my comment.
it’s not infinite time. It’s infinite “space-time.” They are one and the same.
If you had infinite chances to play the lotto and only had 50 number combinations to choose from, how many times would you win the lotto? 1? 23,000? 2 million?
You’d win infinite number of times as would ALL possible combinations.
If the mind is physical,
If there are infinite universe,
If there are finite particles,
That’s the ONLY logical conclusion to make. Regardless of the physics involved in the other universes…it’s a known fact that our universe exists, and why would it not exist in this same configuration? And why not trillions of other universe types that are very similar to within 99% of this one, if given infinite chances to replicate based on random chance?
Infinite mirrors of our universe exist and always.
The opening question is basically this: how can it be fair for God to consign people to either eternal torment in hell or to annihilate them for evil deeds done in one short human lifetime?
I don’t think Andrew really answers the question. I’m an evangelical pastor and I’m also a member of the Rethinking Hell ministry team. So, I’ll give it a shot and see if I can do a bit better than Andrew did.
First, I agree that it would not be fair to consign people to eternal torment for sins committed in the short lives we live here on earth. I don’t believe our good God will do that. I realize that eternal torment for the lost is the traditional view in Christianity and also the majority view among evangelicals today. But I don’t believe it is the biblical view. I think this is an area where many have misread God’s Word. Instead, I believe that the Bible teaches a doctrine called Conditional Immortality, which is also known as Annihilationism. If you want to see biblical evidence for this, you can look at my own CZcams channel where I have a collection of videos on this topic.
But what about annihilation of the unsaved? Is that fair? I think it is. Here are two truths that most people probably can agree with: (1) None of us have lived such good lives that we deserve to live forever in a perfect world and (2) the way we are now, we would ruin a perfect world if we were placed in one. Based on these truths, none of us, based on our lives, deserve to live forever in the New Earth that God promises. If we don’t deserve to live forever, then it is not unfair if we perish in the final judgment. And living forever or perishing are indeed the two possibilities that Jesus points to in John 3:16.
But there is Good News. Through Jesus God has made a way to deal with both of the problems mentioned above. He died for our sins so that we can be justly forgiven. He also promises that those who trust Him will be transformed (a process that begins now but is only completed when we are resurrected) so that we can be fit for eternal life with Him. These gifts come through a relationship with Jesus as our Lord and Savior. That is not unfair. That is amazing grace.
So Mark. You're an evangelical pastor. You've just presented a load of evidence-free assertions, all prefaced by 'I believe' and 'I think', just like this clueless grifter. Can you set the bar any lower? And you wonder why religion is having such a hard time in the 21st century?
What utter nonsense. It's like sitting down with someone to have a serious intellectual discussion about whether the Tooth Fairy should put more money under the pillow.
The Word is here now. Living with Him is ALREADY LIVING IN HEAVEN. without the Word is living in HELL, ALREADY. Speaks to the heresies of the protestants and catholics where y they invent whatever they feel like.
Easy: No.
Ohhh don't be mad about spending eternity in hell and its eternal conscious torment-tier badness where god is not present, you're voluntarily choosing it by _involuntarily being unconvinced by god's advocates and god himself._ God did all he can. It's the best he can do. He can't do more. This _omnipresent,_ _omnipotent_ god. This is why christianity is on the decline, and rightfully so.
O.o
Does hogwarts and narnia exist?
This video is a huge leap backwards in logic. I just lost a few braincells listening to this.
Religion is a joke. If you genuinely question the core philosophies that drive Chrisitans and Muslums to pray to their gods with all their hearts and souls, they outcast you and label you as a non-believer. But it's like isn't blindly believing in a religion is the equivalent of gambling? Why the fuck should I go all in for a religion who's biggest proof is 'just to have faith', and after I die realize oops I rolled the dice wrong and my entire lifes work went to nothing. Judaism is the only religion whose appealed to me in this regard, because every question you will possibly ever ask has an insanely satisfying answer that has been dwelled on and thought about for thousands of years. You will never ask a question and be left with the answer that you just have to 'believe', because there are extremely satisfying answers to every question that you will ever bother to ask. That's why to me at least, it isn't 'gambling'. That's why if I was religious I couldn't bother to believe in anything besides Judaism
We have always been in Heaven, (Rainbow) the 7'th Heaven,
as holds the Six 'Under-Heavens',
= Physical Condition + the Five Deep-Sleep-periods.
So, Heaven is a Circuit, of Heavens.
Hell is mostly experienced in waked condition,
in physical condition, where resistance and pain is real.
(REM) is our Coupling-Body, as bring our Day-Consciousness
to the Night-Bodies, one by one.
Nightmare is experienced through the Coupling-Body (REM)
So, Orange=Animal-Kingdom, and the Coupling-Body, is the Only
Zone or 'area', where Hell is Real.
In a Eternal Perspective, Hell is the Bell, as keep the Eternal Life,
from falling a sleep, and Light a new Developing-Circuit,
in reality, all Life-Unit's Only experience absolute minimum
of suffering, to get the eternal life going, if there were No Contrast's,
there would be No Life-Experiences, No Development.
NO! That was simple!
But for the simple minded, it becomes complicated?
And to gain control and suck cash from sheeple.
Wow what a crock. Heres a question… if there is an all knowing all loving God controlling all creation.. as Christians believe, why does he/she/it allow infants and their mothers to be blown to pieces on a daily basis? What good does that serve? And if I renounce this so called god… in the name of something good that is ignored? Why is that a sin against this all powerful being? Why suffering? Why is most of life a war against suffering? Even if we live forever in the afterlife, why do some people experience unimaginable suffering and others escape all judgement? Ill tell you why… because god is a lie meant to control people. Wake up. Its up to us to save ourselves.
sad that so many can not see the obvious... well written
Heaven l am not sure, just don't know..full stop!...Hell l believe is here on Earth,it can't be any worse than this surely?😮
I dont think you understand who Hell is for. Its not for the ignorant, the incapable/handicapped, the obedient. It is for the Evil doer, the Arrogant, the rejectors of Truth or those who close their eyes and ears to study the Truth.
How will a limited death sentence of Hitler account for 6 million plus innocent lives he tortured?....an Eternal Hell will suffice.
Read Quran.