FIXING The ZELDA TIMELINE: Part 2 - Tears of the Kingdom
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- Welcome to Zelda Lore! Let's attempt to fit Tears of the Kingdom into the timeline!
Part 1: • FIXING The ZELDA TIMEL...
00:00 - Spoiler Warning
00:32 - Introduction
01:26 - Story Summary
12:32 - Reconciling Lore: Intro
13:07 - Reconciling Lore: Ganondorf
23:39 - Reconciling Lore: Gerudo Law
25:24 - Reconciling Lore: Gerudo Ears
27:40 - Reconciling Lore: Gerudo Eyes
28:20 - Reconciling Lore: Koume and Kotake
31:41 - Reconciling Lore: Hyrule Castle
34:02 - Reconciling Lore: Founding of Hyrule
37:05 - Reconciling Lore: Rito Tribe
37:45 - Conclusion Introduction
40:09 - Timeline Revision
41:05 - TOTK Timeline Placement
43:50 - Outro
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I go with the re-establishment theory since the gams are so cyclic in nature. It's a private in-joke to me to imagine the three Goddesses sitting around a gaming table, naming themes, placing bets, and then rolling the dice to see what happens.
Nintendo's Zelda timeline is like watching someone carry several Jigsaw Puzzle boxes, dropping them, and hear him claim that all the mixed pieces make ONE single picture.
Well it is now
ACCURATE!!!
Yeah that’s why I think all of this people are wackadoos
Guys...remember how we had 2 Links in one game? Think of Ganondorfs existence like that. The heroes shade, also shared the spirit of the hero
Yeah, this is completely true. I do not understand why it's a law that Ganondorf's incarnations can't work that way. Seems arbitrary. I think his point about totk Ganondorf not seeking to free himself with one of his other incarnations is still somewhat compelling, but you could also very easily imagine why that wouldn't end up happening.
@NovaAlamak if he did free himself I think he would just absorb whatever was left behind at some point. Ganondorf is the type of villain that wouldn't leave behind a challenger
You should look at Tamashii and how in Japanese they can reincarnate from the Sealed Kami while the Kami is still "alive" in the seal. I still think that TotK is after everything else but that isn't something that should be a factor
@@nehpets216 Tears of the Kingdom is the symbol it has on the box, a Snake eating it's own tail, the modern day ends Ganondorf, and creates Demise, the past starts up after Skyward Sword but leads into that game with the modern consequences.
It was different because the Links share the spirit, but are still different people. Therefore, able to interact. Also the Hero’s shade was dead, so the reincarnation still happened
I see you've reached similar conclusions to me. Lourule Historian was making some headway on getting me to come around to the past taking place after skyward sword, but your video has firmly thrown me back into the reboot camp. I told you before, I hate that they would discard the timeline, but I feel like that is exactly what happened and they chose to make a new continuity.
Even if we run with the idea that it's been so long since any other games, that they are all "myth and legend", it is still functionally a soft reboot where they are washing their hands of the 30 year history of the franchise. I say 30, because I believe this decision was made well before Tears of the Kingdom.
I liked your video ZL and respect your dedication to being a lore master.
I’m sure one of two things will happen.
1: next game forgets totk’s storyline, all the new fans get upset and criticize it for its crappy storytelling
2: old fans become extra vocal and the new fans learn of the older games’ stories, now there’s a sizable amount of new fans who care about the older games as well, pressuring Nintendo to keep a consistent storyline.
There are probably other ways it could go, but I assure you Nintendo will learn and at least try to connect the stories.
I know their philosophy is “gameplay first, story second” but it’s honestly a bad mindset to have, at what point do games with a half assed story be perceived as simply a tech demo…
And yes, totk’s story is half assed.
It’s clearly trying to heavily take inspiration from oot’s story, and in some ways try to “replace” it outright.
What does this necessarily entail? Well we could see this as them trying to tell oot’s story to new fans (not like they can’t go and play the older titles smh).
Or Zelda might fall into the same shtick as star fox did, most of the games end up being retellings of the popular one because sales.
If this is a new timeline however, that’s fine, but they should tell us and not try to replace older games, how much do you wanna bet the next game will be “Twilight Princess: TotK version” or something along those lines
We're well beyond the point in gaming history where games not only can but should have stories, as theyre the most powerful storytelling mediums, and not having a good story is usually less of a priority thing I feel, and more of a not caring thing. Theres no reason you cant have both. But it seems Nintendo likes living in the past, so...
With the way open world zelda is selling despite that I don't see zelda team changing how they handle stories.
Fact is while they've consistently listened to gameplay criticisms, story wise, I highly doubt they'll change because this is seemingly how they WANT to handle it.
With how many copies tears of the kingdoms sold, they could choose not to listen to those story criticisms, continue to do what they want, and they'll be fine. I mean heck, pokemon still sells crazy well despite its problems. zeldas so popular and beloved at this point that I don't know why it would be any different.
@@brydonprice6216 the only reason totk sold as well is because it was riding on the success of botw, botw was a one hit wonder of a game, and they’ve made it clear that they want to move on to a different link and zelda.
Will people buy the next game like crazy? Of course they will, it’s got the Zelda label on it. But if that games story is received poorly due to its “lack of continuity” then that can tarnish the name of the franchise.
Continuity builds lore and community, why would anyone want to get invested into the series if they can just throw the story away in order to make a half baked story that works around the gameplay instead. There needs to be balance in both departments
Yo this thing about the new fans now looking at the older games and starting to LOVE THEM IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING YOU ARE RIGHT a lot of people who never played the old games and are now playing them are loving them more then the new games LOL
this really is curricular of human nature just as war is curricular to our world unfortunately
The far future of the downfall timeline makes the most sense in light of everything explained in this video. My only question is...when Ganondorf appeared in TOTK's past, why did an incarnation of Link and Zelda not arise to oppose him? Noone other than Zelda even mentions the Master Sword in the past. It could've been sealed away somewhere and forgotten sure...but Ganondorf, Link, and Zelda are all trapped in a cycle caused by Demise. So if Ganondorf arises, so should Link.
Link and Zelda do alaways set right the evil spread by the vessels and agents of Demise's malice, yes. But there's nothing guaranteeing how and when they all come into the tale.
I'll stick specifically with Ganondorf rather than other villains to make this point: we have a classic instance of Ganon arising without a Link arising in response during his initial time of activity-- Wind Waker. When Ganon broke his seal, the Hylians specifically lamented the fact that their Hero did not return to stop him again, nor did another Hero come from their midst. Only after the gods themselves intervened with the flood and generations passed did a successor to the Spirit of the Hero come of age and put an end to the then-latest scheme of the Demon King technically having begun ages before the story takes place.
Very like TotK, no?
I mean we can say the same thing for Ganondorf's return after oot in the adult timeline.
This theory also explains why the ancient Hyrulean warriors seen in the flashbacks were dressed like Mayan warriors. The Mayan cosmology was based on a long cycle and a short cycle. They’re also highly associated with ancient aliens conspiracy theory.
The one thing this theory doesn't answer is how was the new Master Sword created. Zelda states that the Master Sword doesn't exist in the past during one of the last memories.
It's possible that the previous timlines' kingdoms failed and the sword was taken to the future through some time-fuckery, but that's just my crackpot theory.
I'm so thankful for this video. I'm looking for an update after every Zelda game from now on.
A theory that I keep thinking of is how the events of tears of the kingdom's past align somewhat with the opening sequence of skyward sword. The "birth of the demon king" shown in tears of the kingdom is the war that occured in the beginning of skyward sword, which after "demise" was sealed away Hylia sent the hylians skyward, just how after ganondorf was sealed away in totk they raised pieces of the land skyward. Demise has the cross on his forehead right where the secret stone was, and he seemed to expect link's arrival just like in totk. The biggest problem with this theory is that demise speaks of hylia as though he's met her before, referencing how zelda is nowhere near her original magnificence or something like that. Fi describes Demise as an immortal, eternal being that exceeds time itself. Not to mention koume and koutake would be well over 400 years old as I believe skyward sword's past is thousands of years ago. However, it's undeniable that the lanayru robots as well as the sand ship share similarities with other zonai tech and symbols, but at the same time, the desert already existed in totk past, when we know in skyward sword it used to be a lush forest.
Edit: to go along with this theory, I would theorize that zelda's draconification and rauru's sealing of ganondorf created the loop of reincarnation. This would add an explanation to the ancient hero's aspect, suggesting that a hylian or zonai (assuming the ancient hero's aspect IS a zonai which doesn't even make any sense but I digress) can possess the spirit of the hero, that spirit being rauru himself. Demise at the end of skyward sword was essentially just telling link that he'll return, there wasn't really a curse he placed on them.
Another theory I like (which I haven't come across yet) is that the imprisoning war IS the one referenced in a link to the last. If the imprisoning war occurs after the "hero is defeated" in ocarina of time, then that is when the events of totk past would occur. How is that possible? As opposed to the hero being defeated in ocarina of time, this is a timeline where the hero simply doesn't exist. With those implications in place, this would create enormous inconsistencies in what occured during these two timelines. The absence of a hero results in a world where hyrule kingdom is rather undeveloped, and is adopted by the zonai. Perhaps instead of link, rauru and his ancestors carried the spirit of the hero. The goddesses maybe thought moving the spirit to a more powerful being would provide a greater defense against demise, but were proven wrong, but I'm just spitballing here.
I'd love to discuss any timeline stuff further, I just also wanted to add a few discrepencies I have with totk:
Did the sheikah come before or after the zonai? If it was after, then totk past would HAVE to take place before skyward sword as the sheikah are said to be an ancient race that assisted hylia. If it was before, then why are they completely absent in totk past? Not once is mineru or rauru like "oh hey this purah pad looks like some kind of sheikah device" nor do we see any hylians resembling sheikah. The hylians of that time were like aztec warriors bearing zonai clothing. The other way of looking at it is that the zonai and sheikah are the same somehow yet I don't really understand how that would be the case.
Where is the triforce? Literally no one in botw or totk have ever mentioned or acknowledged the most powerful artifact in the known universe, which I find to be really confusing.
What are the secret stones? Did the zonai create them or were they gifted to them by the goddesses?
Does ganondorf even know what the master sword is? Do the zonai or any of the ancient hylians even know? When you first meet ganondorf, he says "Was that the sword that seals the darkness?" Indicating that he has never seen this blade and that he only ever heard of it from when rauru told him link would appear with it. Just like with the triforce, it's another (what should be) a very very well known piece of hyrule's history that seemingly know one's heard of.
Why is the forgotten temple halfway across the map from where it should have landed from skyward sword? We know goddess statues can move seen from the spring side adventure in totk, but why did it move? Not just that, but the ENTIRE temple moved. How and why?
Finally, I want to mention this games insane referneces to twilight princess, which I don't really see people ever talking about. More than any other game in the series, tp (and the child timeline for that matter) has the most references. We have the dusk bow (formerly the twilight bow) the dusk claymore (formerly the sword of six sages) midna's helm, zant's helm, tp tunic, arbiter's grounds (in the depths there is a colisseum right below it as well), the castle's (and castle town's) striking resemblance to that of tp, you can get the mirror of twilight fabric as well as the demon king fabric (which is a tp design) for your paraglider, hell just look at the similarities between the twili and the zonai in terms of architecture. All the swirls and square swirls align WAY too much. The dusk claymore is found in the typhlo ruins, which are of zonai origin, and in the sage temple ruins you can find a stela that states a legendary blade was moved to the typhlo ruins. There's just so much between tp and totk that it seems almost too obvious.
Well, all of this is valid and it does goes in line with what Nintendo said before.
However, I believe that this game and its predecessor may be set in a timeline separated from all of the previous ones. A timeline that began when Link defeated Demise in the past.
If what I believe is true, then the statements found underneath Hyrule castle about it's origin would in fact be true. It would rhyme even better with the previously established games because it would all be, as you said before, matching events having the same importance every time.
Good work, a reasonable conclusion to draw with all the unwieldy details of the timeline(s). It could come as no surprise that you’re completely right. Nintendo might confirm someday that this is the case. Still, I think there’s still room for other interpretations, like a retcon.
I wanted to believe that the ancient past events with Zonai and Ganondorf’s war were sometime after SS and before OoT. This is how I saw it while I’ve been playing TotK. But hearing your take on the conflicts with OoT, placing the ancient Zonai events after OoT makes the most sense. It’s just not quite as epic. It would be absolutely insanely amazing to think that the light dragon has been waiting through all the ages and through all those other game’s stories for time to finally reach the TotK Upheaval.
I heard from a theory video sometime ago (probably a few years ago) that, from Nintendo’s creators’ point of view, each of the games take their events seriously as “canon” and ultimately treat all others as myth/legend. This way, when details don’t add up (like pointed or round ears), it’s not necessary to fit the details together perfectly. With this perspective, the games aren’t obligated to be seamless, and accepting that the details are inconsistent is essential. I think this might also be the best interpretation, because it allows all the games to breath-allows Nintendo to deviate without being a slave to making all the games’ details work flawlessly. From the creative professional’s perspective, it’s unreasonable to expect anyone to make this many stories work together flawlessly.
Actually it is theoretically possible that two Ganons exist at the dame time sharing the same soul when looking at the Japanese/Buddhist Interpretation of a Soul, according to this Statement it is possible that two Beings can share one soul and even act independantly from oneanother.
And seeing that at a certain Point in Tears if the Kingdom where it is hinted that Ganondorf seems to have memories of being Calamity Ganon, this must mean that at least some form of Conciousness of Ganondorf managed to Escape the Seal of Rauru while his body remains kept in the depths.
This would mean that Ganondorf could escape, yet he needed a Physical Body to show off his might.
And Therefore I see two possibilities happening:
He either posesses a Male Gerudo Body to reincarnate or he needs to make a new body on his own, resulting to give up on Reincarnation/Rebirth, yet still wanting to return in some form.
After all, it is still refered in Breath of the wild that Ganon got destroyed and revived countless times, meaning if TotK Ganondorf was the very first then there must have been many Ganons after him
This, this right here seems most plausible.
Nah this is more BS and confusing
that refers to the calamity tho. and there WERE more then the ancient one in the tapestry and the one in BOTW. heck for the ancient one to happen as it did the sheikah had to know it happened before already to prepare with their tech.
nintendo clearly wants to move on from the split timeline and just create something continues ongoing without thinking about the time line crap to much. this is why they planted HUGE massive gaps of time periods between these two games and the one before.
Great video. I’ve watched your timeline video about 4 times and I agree with it. I’d love to hear your take on the depths and the bargainer statues in the future.
As disappointing as it is to me, I'm afraid I must, at least for the time being, agree with this interpretation. I'd gotten so excited while researching the lore of this game because of signs pointing toward it being an alternate timeline version of the events of Ocarina of Time, such as Ganondorf's rise soon after the unification of the kingdom, the sages seeming to include Darunia, Ruto, Naboru, a Rito namesake of Vah Medoh taking the place of both Medli and Saria/Mido (as Mido's name was used as a town in TAoL), Mineru succeeding Impa (as the Zonai succeeded the Sheikah from BotW to TotK), a variation of Rauru, and a variation of Zelda, and the potential for Rauru, himself, to have been the hero spoken of in the Zora stone monuments, but I have found too many inconsistencies both with already-existing lore and within the game itself for me to confidently believe this to be the case, and, with Skyward Sword's events depicting a closed loop, there is no timeline split which could incorporate an alternate version of Ocarina of Time's events. I fear Nintendo may be subtly or not-so-sutbly doing away with the old lore of their greatest series due to tiring of it, a sentiment which I can understand, but I am terribly saddened by.
All of that aside, phenomenal video as always, good sir! Despite my disappointment at the conclusion, I enjoyed this piece just as much as Part 1! Hope you thoroughly enjoyed playing through Tears of the Kingdom!
I feel the same. But I think personally that Nintendo may have chosen a compromise. Rather than sticking to the timeline which restricts their creativity, and rather than completely disregarding everything with a hard reboot, I feel they instead chose a middleground, where the events of all the prior games still happened, but are so long in the past they are just long forgotten history now rendered as legends and fairy tales, myths for the recent people of Hyrule, but very much still real events. With a re-establishment, which to the recent people would just be a regular kingdom, without the knowledge of a prior Kingdom at all, Nintendo has the complete freedom to write any story they want without any restrictions, while simultaneously reference the events of the old games like how they do with Ruto.
@@ZeldaLore That honestly gives me some hope that we could potentially one day learn of, either in-game or via developer interviews, the mysterious downfall of the original kingdom and just what took place between that and the rise of the new kingdom. Also super curious about the implication that the hero of the Ancient Calamity may have been a Zonai who wielded the Master Sword!
I really hope they don’t, I really really want them to keep on going with the current timeline. It just won’t really feel like Zelda if they don’t, I doubt they will but there’s a little part of me that worries.
I can imagine a game set in the old Hyrule before its fall that led to the arrival of the Zonai to establish the new Hyrule
That would Rock.
Zelda Ocarina of time was The old Hyrule
@@danielbn5268 old hyrule would be anything of the old timeline before it fell and became the wilderness that we can see when tears of the kingdom zelda travel to the past
Now I've been having a weird idea of "What if their was one continuous timeline instead of three?" I highly doubt it could working with so many contradictions in each game but it would be interesting if it was just one huge one all together.
I have some issues about zelda being the granddaughter of a goat
This my definitive official canon timeline from now on. Yup 👏🏻😤. And now I go on with my day.
This is the only sensical way TotK can be included in the same timeline as all other games. To me, it was never a question of whether TotK happened before or after OoT (TotK happening before OoT contradicts WAY too much of the established lore, as described beautifully in this video), the question was whether BotW and TotK exist within the same timeline as other games AT ALL, or not. And the only way they make sense within that timeline is if Rauru establishing Hyrule in TotK was a re-establishment of the ancient kingdom, millennia after the kingdom from OoT had fallen into myth. I suppose it’s possible that they might just be their own timeline totally separate from the other games as others seem to suggest, but with references to SS and OoT, that would necessitate a timeline that is totally different from the one we know, except where SS and OoT still happened? Occam’s razor (or should I say Ooccam’s razor?) would imply the explanation with the smallest number of assumptions is the more likely one, so I think it’s more likely to exist in the same timeline as the other games, with the events in SS and OoT as a part of its history.
To those who think it would make more sense as a timeline split from SS where Link kills Demise in the past, think carefully about that. What would that specific change in history create? For one, none of skyward sword would have happened at all. Zelda and Link would have been born in that world and lived their entire lives in Skyloft, since Girahim would not have existed to send the storm that brought Zelda to the surface. The Master sword would not have been tempered, and existed only as the goddess sword in the sky, along with the complete triforce. The spirit of the here similarly would not have been forged, as link would not have gone through those trials. And yet somehow the Master sword would still have been tempered from the goddess sword by someone at some point, and the triforce would also have needed to be brought down to the surface. At some point, some skyloftians would have also needed to come down and colonize the surface, as there were none left there when Hylia sent them up into the sky, as stated in SS. All of these differences, yet OoT is still supposed to have happened as it is clearly referenced in both BotW and TotK. PLUS, these reasons don’t even include the confirmation in SS that the time travel was more like a closed loop than it was a timeline-creating event, as things that link and Zelda did in the past STILL EXISTED in the future world they returned to (Zelda’s bracelet on Impa, the tree that link planted in the past, etc). No, it makes the most sense if TotK is in the same timeline as the other games, but so far into the future that the previous events are so remote they don’t even matter anymore.
I truly think it’s exactly as ZeldaLore said, Nintendo just wanted a hard reset on the series without doing away with the lore fans loved. So they just made this new entry establish a brand new “era” of Hyrule, a brand new version of an ancient kingdom. AND, I just realized as I was typing this, it goes PERFECTLY with the theme of the ouroboros: the cyclical nature of Hyrule’s establishment, prosperity, destruction, and revival again is destined to repeat itself. Think of how so many aspects of TotK/BotW seem to reflect events of precious games (imprisoning war, kneeling scene, sages, Ganon monster transformation), they are echoes of the same events that have repeated over and over again, like an ouroboros. There are still questions I have about this theory, like where did the zonai come from? Were they always in the sky? Did they evolve from a previous people that lived in the sky? The Oocca, the wind tribe, the minish, the skyloftians… are they related to the zonai at all? Related to each other at all? Are the zonai REALLY descended from the gods or is that just what ancient hylians believed? WHERE IS THE TRIFORCE?? Also one last observation, and I’d love to get your thoughts… if two organisms procreate, and if their offspring can also procreate (i.e., they aren’t sterile at birth), by definition they are the same species. So if Rauru and Sonia are Zelda’s blood ancestors, that means they had kids, who then had kids. By definition, the zonai and hylians are the same species then, perhaps just different “tribes” or forms, like different kinds of the same animal. I don’t know what to make of this, but hopefully it will be discussed in the future.
Yeah, Link and Zelda stay in the sky in the past timeline since Demise poses no threat. That paves the way for Rauru and Sonia to found Hyrule in the new timeline, rather than Zelda or Link.
Link leaves the Master Sword in the past timeline, yet it can exist in both branches of the SS timeline split. It’s happened before in the series, and like how Link from OoT brings the Triforce of Courage from the Adult TL to the Child TL, but the full Triforce still exists in both timelines.
Also, we never really see the actual Triforce in BOTW and ToTK, so it still could be stuck in the Sky Keep hundreds of thousands of years after.
As for the references to OoT, in BOTW that’s probably because a lot of the story concepts in ToTK weren’t thought of yet, and figures from the games could still be noteworthy in the branched timeline.
In Ocarina of Time, the two timelines were a closed loop until Zelda sent the Hero of Time back into the past, as actions such as the Song of Storms were influenced across both timeline. I think the split here comes from the contradiction in how Demise is defeated.
Well said and fully agree.
The idea of SS having a split is nonsense as evidenced by a continuity between the past and the present, unlike OoT's split.
Small problem the mastersword would still exist in the past link put it in the pedestal before traveling forward in time yes there is a split one where demise is killed in the present with the triforce and 1 were he kills him after traveling to the past when ghirahim kidnapped zelda and brought her there ofcourse in the first timeline where the imprisoned is killed the mastersword should've dissappear from existence due to being taken to the past being put to rest there. Yea time traveling is weird.
Ofcourse keep in mind yes there is a split botw and totk and the past yes takes place after the fall of hyrule Ganondorf basically confirms that seeing as sense his being sealed a male gerudo hasn't been born. And he appeared in oot.
@@wholsom1003Sidon mentions Ruto and OOT in the Zora tablets in TOTK
28:47 ok that is way too subtle to not be an intentional lore detail. But man it makes the timeline all wacky.
Could I get a PDF of this? I absolutely love this reasoning ande it fixed my biggest issue with the game.
8 Years as there are kids born after Link won BotW who are at least 7 years old (per dialog with the kids in TotK)
Now do a Part 3 where you incorporate the Satellaview games, Tingle games, CD-i games, Link’s Crossbow Training, the Skyward Sword prequel manga, Hyrule Warriors, Age of Calamity, and Cadence of Hyrule.
I’ll start with the timeline that’s the easiest to map, thanks to translating the Hylian inscriptions on the gravestone on Windfall Island in Wind Waker. The gravestone belongs to “A Great Artist”-presumably Tott’s father-who lived year 831-894. I take this to mean the Hylian calendar started at the formation of Hyrule under King Gustaf Hyrule. With that in mind, the easiest timeline to map is the Adult Timeline, since we have the gravestone dates as a starting point. All dates given are estimates.
Adult Timeline:
BH=Before Hyrule
AH=After Hyrule
Unknown BH:
-The goddesses of power, wisdom, and courage create the world and leave behind the sacred Triforce upon their return to the heavens.
-The Lorulean Triforce is also created.
-Reign of Goddess Hylia begins.
-Cia, Guardian of Time, is appointed by Goddess Hylia to observe the flow of time.
4,016 BH:
-Link, the Hero of the Goddess, is born.
4,000 BH:
-The Demon Invasion
-Skyward Sword prequel manga
-The Goddess Sword is created.
-Demise is imprisoned. A piece of his soul is kept in the Sealed Grounds.
-The Hylians are sent into the sky to protect the Triforce.
-Goddess Hylia sacrifices her immortality.
-Malladus is sealed by the Lokomo.
-The Oocca establish a technologically advanced society on the surface.
3,000 BH:
-Skyward Sword past
-Demise is revived by Ghirahim and defeated by Link, the Hero of the Sky. A piece of Demise’s soul is sealed within the Master Sword.
2,035 BH:
-Skyloft Tingle is born.
2,016 BH:
-Link, the Hero of the Sky, is born.
-Zelda I, the reincarnated Goddess Hylia, is born.
2,000 BH:
-Skyloft Tingle produces a line of plushies of his likeness.
-Skyward Sword present
-The Goddess Sword becomes the Master Sword.
-The Skyloftians return to the surface.
0 AH:
-King Gustaf establishes the Kingdom of Hyrule.
-The Hylian Calendar is established.
-The parallel kingdom of Lorule is founded.
70 AH:
-The first Gerudo male, Ganondorf I, is born.
91 AH:
-Link, the Hero of Men, is born.
100 AH:
-The War of the Bound Chest
-The Oocca use their advanced technology to raise their cities into the sky.
-The Minish bestow the Picori Blade unto Link, the Hero of Men. They also bestow the Light Force unto the women of the Hylian royal family.
207 AH:
-The Twinrova witches Koume and Kotake are born.
265 AH:
-Minish Cap Tingle is born.
291 AH:
-Link, the Hero of the Minish, is born.
-Princess Zelda II, daughter of King Daltus Hyrule, is born.
300 AH:
-The Minish Cap
-Vaati is destroyed.
400 AH:
-The Triforce Wars
-The Dark Interlopers are sealed in the Twilight Realm.
-King Zora is born.
507 AH:
-Princess Ruto is born.
550 AH:
-Cadence Tingle is born.
565 AH:
-Termina Tingle is born.
-Hyrule Tingle is born.
570 AH:
-Ganondorf VI Dragmire is born.
573 AH:
-Princess Zelda III is born.
584 AH:
-Cremia is born.
591 AH:
-The Fierce War
-Ganondorf is forced to swear fealty to Hyrule.
-Link, the Hero of Time, is born. His mother entrusts his care to the Kokiri before she dies.
-Princess Zelda IV is born.
-Malon is born.
-Romani is born.
600 AH:
-Ocarina of Time present
-Ganondorf curses the Great Deku Tree, who later dies after the source of the curse is purged by Link.
-Link is manipulated by Ganondorf into opening the Sacred Realm. Ganondorf obtains the Triforce of Power. Link is put in stasis in the Temple of Time by the sage Rauru.
-The Skull Kid, under the influence of Majora’s Mask, destroys the land of Termina.
607 AH:
-Ocarina of Time future
-Saria, Ruto, Nabooru, Darunia, and Impa are awakened as sages.
-Ganondorf is defeated and sealed in the Sacred Realm.
-The Hero of Time is sent back to relive his childhood.
-The Era Without a Hero begins.
665 AH:
-Freshly-Picked Tingle is born.
691 AH:
-Princess Zelda V, daughter of King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule, is born.
700 AH:
-King Zora dies. Ruto succeeds him as queen.
-The Deku Sprout grows into the Deku’s Heir.
-Freshly-Picked Tingle’s Rosy Rupeeland
-Uncle Rupee is destroyed. Freshly-Picked Tingle becomes filthy rich.
-Freshly-Picked Tingle, obsessed with acquiring more wealth, breaks into the Sacred Realm and accidentally releases Ganondorf. In the future, this results in anyone bearing Tingle’s appearance and clothing being labeled as suspicious at least, and evil at worst.
-The Great Flood
-Ganondorf and Hyrule are sealed beneath the Great Sea.
-The Era Without a Hero ends. The Era of the Great Sea begins.
807 AH:
-Queen Ruto dies. Prince Laruto, her grandson and the next Sage of Water, is born.
-At some point the Zora develop wings and evolve into the Rito, with the remaining Zora going extinct with the exception of Laruto. The same happens with the Kokiri evolving into the Koroks, with the exception of Fado, the new Sage of Wind.
831 AH:
-“A Great Artist” is born.
865 AH:
-Wind Waker Tingle is born.
891 AH:
-Link, the Hero of Winds, is born on Outset Island.
-Tetra, the reincarnated Zelda, is born.
894 AH:
-“A Great Artist” dies.
897 AH:
-Tetra’s mother dies. Tetra becomes the pirate captain.
900 AH:
-The Wind Waker
-Ganondorf kills Laruto, the Sage of Water, and Fado, the Sage of Wind.
-Ganondorf is killed. Hyrule is drowned beneath the ocean forever.
-Tetra and Link set out to search for a New Hyrule.
-Hyrule Warriors Wind Waker DLC
-Four Swords Adventures: Navi Trackers
-Phantom Hourglass
-New Hyrule is founded. Tetra assumes the title of Princess Zelda VI.
965 AH:
-New Hyrule Tingle is born.
991 AH:
-Link, the Hero of Rails, is born.
-Princess Zelda VII is born.
1,000 AH:
-Spirit Tracks
-Malladus is destroyed.
1,965 AH:
-Ripened Tingle is born.
2,000 AH:
-Ripened Tingle’s Balloon Trip of Love
I think this is correct, but one consideration to take:
Instead of the TOTK-BOTW-TOTK occurring eons after TP in child-split for OoT, maybe it's better placed in the adult-split - occurring eons after WW, in that original land of Hyrule long after the floods finally dry out?
This would satisfy many nit-pickings, especially the 'sea salt abundance' throughout the land; and also the Rito and Korok evolutions (could presume the new zora race spawned as freshwater domains returned to the land over time).
Nope fat chance
the bridge
the castle
Castle
town
dark beast Ganon
Calamity Ganon face looks like TP ganondorf which ofcourse the official tears game retcon this
arbiter grounds
The master sword
Still exist
A replica of mirror of twilight
still exist
i F doubt the adult would ever go back to that the old kingdom is gone for good and that would also ruined the whole thing with the koroks creating new land and all and ruins the whole point and messenge of the Adult branch as a whole like pretty much hypocritical
Yes breath - tears could’ve had a flood but definitely not the great goddess flood fat F change in hell
Breath and tears are definitely more structured to be in the
Downfall
For many reasons
Or the child
If you ask me
Oh right and ganondorf isn’t ever coming back in the adult that mofo showed as smile of relief on his face kinda hinting at demise hate moved on and what do you know we got a new villain of hate by spirit tracks
I like that with more info, it confirms that it's definitely after Ocarina of Time. I want to say that maybe there was an event where a villan tried to unseal Ganondorf in a twisted way that maybe brought in other universe Ganondorfs together until they all converged into 1 being again.
I think this makes the most sense in terms of placing TotK and acknowledging the small retcons that happened. But as a totally separate thing, with the new game I honestly think Skyward Sword makes better sense being placed before TotK but after everything else. It has so little to do with anything except BotW and TotK.
Yeah. I had the feeling long time ago that Skyward Sword was the first step of a soft reboot with the final step being BotW. When I began TotK, I thought that we will discover that BotW Zelda was in fact Hylia from Skyward Sword and that the sealing war was the one in which Demise became the emprisonned. I thought that the demon king from TotK was in fact Demise with a new art direction and that the mummy was a sealed Ganondorf from a previous game. I quickly understood that I was wrong and that finally Tears of The Kingdom changed what was intended to be soft reboot into a hard reboot retconning the entire timeline. Moreover, some aspects of the plot of TotK seem to remake and integrate aspects of the plots of previous games.
Been waiting for this! ❤
This a amazingly well thought theory. And I think this is the most likely right answer. Or that all the other games, except SS, are legends and stories. I don’t think that they would invalidate the story of SS, because as far as I know SS, BotW and TotK all have the same writer/director, Fujibiashi(sorry if I spelled it wrong). I understand that they want to move on from the timeline, and I know that SS was an origin story for the the past games, but I still think that SS is and should be canon to BotW and TotK.
The only thing that bothers me is the fact that if Rauru and Sonia found a new Kingdom of Hyrule, why don’t the ancient Hylians from that era use anyform of Triforce imagery, not even on the Royal crest, but the generations of Hylians after them used and still using the same Royal Crest as the past titles. And what of all the ruïns of ancient Hylians, with the architecture and imagery of SS. Are they still older than the Zonaï ruins in the game?
This are just some questions that I can’t find a logical answer for myself. But I still love this video. Keep it going!
EDIT:
It is not entirely true what I said about the triforce missing from the era of Rauru and Sonia. If you look closely at Sonia’s arms in the cutscenes you can see the Triforce tattooed on her arms. For example the memory where Zelda explained, on the cliff where the entrance of the Shrine of Resurrection would be located in the future, that she is from a different time period.
Also in the Ancient throne room you can see a glass window with what looks like a different take on the Triforce and/or Royal Crest, even if it is a little uncertain.
Perfect video incapsulates what I have been thinking for a while.
the worst part is not only did they decide to basically retcon everything after already committing to BOTW to being far-future hyrule, but they for some reason doubled down by making TOTK feel incredibly disconnected from its own prequel and handwaving it away. I dont get why they didnt just say it was a reboot to begin with, or have made TOTK an entirely new experience if they wanted to refresh all the lore elements.
One problem: Zelda says that the Zonai lived in the time of earliest legend, and since Ruto is a legend that means the memories in Totk happen before it, and not only its unlikely for Zelda to be wrong sice she is a scholar but that is also supported by Wordsworth's statement that the name Zelda wasnt belived to be as old as the age of the Zonai. Also we have to keep in mind that the "creating a champion" book stated in the same page of its timeline that most thins in it are all just myth, they might be true or be distortions of the truth, an example of that is the Ruto tablet, in botw those tablets say that Ruto was a sage that lived way before the ancient calamity who fought alongside a princess and that her name was the inspiration for Vah Rutah's name, and what do we get in Totk? A zora sage who lived way before the calamity that fought alongside a princess and her mask looks exactly like Vah Rutah, so she might be the Ruto of those tablets, that would make sense since the plot of the game takes elements from both Ocarina and Alttp. Personally I think this is all a timeline split that happens between Skyward sword and the founding of Hyrule in the old timelines, that would explain a lot and have less holes in the continuity
i think it if the events of totk past are after the known timeline it would be the same ganondorf we know with the ear and eyes being the one of an oot gerudo.
I love this interpretation. It's makes so much sense to me. I feel like some are upset about this rebooting idea, but I don't see it like that. To me this means the old games are epic legend that this is founded from (actually true) meaning the old games feel more magical and special than these newer stories which I personally love. I don't like the idea of new stories, new players coming in and deciding their newfound, new game is actually the epic starting one that's been the real story all along. Call me petty or w/e but OoT and TP are my faves and these new ones, no matter how fun they are, pale in comparison story wise. Totk comes close though, it's nice to see it all incorporated and I love callbacks/references.
On a side note, anyone think the Zonai were going to be potentially paralleled to the sorcerer's who became the Twili? They disappeared, were magical and technological, ancient, dunno, could be something there! Especially since rauru and mineru were the only ones left, maybe they didn't take part? Maybe they found a different way back from the twilight realm? I know it's a long time between the two things but who knows with made up timelines eh!
Thank you, just rewatched part 1 yesterday so that was a quick update lol
I think TotK’s past is pre-OoT. Koume and Kotake channeled the Malice from sealed Ganon to give birth to OoT Ganondorf, a separate individual who was inundated with the sealed Ganon’s power and hatred by the machinations of the Twinrova sisters (who alone perpetuated the original Ganon’s designs). The myth of a Gerudo male born once every 100 years was a result of their experimentation with creating new Ganondorfs, which finally culminated in the one we see during OoT. The defeat of Twinrova is what “mysteriously” ends this cycle of male Gerudo births. In the child timeline, Koume and Kotake flee to Termina when Ganondorf is imprisoned and sealed. Link does encounter them there, but they would not recognize him and he is seemingly convinced by their act of leading a reformed life and no longer presenting any danger. If you believe them to be alternate versions and not the same individuals from OoT, this still leaves them alive somewhere in Hyrule during the child timeline; if BotW and TotK’s present day follow this timeline, they could be responsible for assisting Ganon with his many reincarnations. Keep in mind that the Calamity is not a typical manifestation of Ganon’s Malice. Perhaps Twinrova were finally defeated during the Ancient Calamity, so they could no longer help Ganon channel his malice into proper physical reincarnations; this would be the reason for his deviation from the usual tactics and rather channeling his malice directly into the Sheikah technology and an unwieldy form made of pure Malice. It wasn’t intelligent and relied on pure destructive power and instinct, but it was his only choice without the aid of his loyal servants.
This is the same interpretation i cane to while playing as well. Its just makes the most sense and lies well with what the devs want. Canon timelines are fun for an audience to interact with but not so fun for the people writing especially when they didnt create the franchise with the purpose of having a real stable timeline.
4:35 small question even within the lore of this game alone...
When did Raru and Sonia have baby? She could not have after this point... obviously. So where is the baby?
And given that 6:14 Raru also sacrifices himself, who's looking after the kid they may or may not have even had?
Believe me, I've asked myself that question a lot. We have no indication of the prince/princess of Hyrule, heir to Rauru and Sonia, existing at all, yet we are to believe that Zelda is their blood descendant.
I doubt the DLC will show anything, maybe it will, but who knows.
@@ZeldaLore The sheikah could have existed (even if we dont see them due to working in the shadows) could have taken the child when the war with the gerudo was going. if you look to SS impa she probably continued with the Sheikah tribe and making sure they worked in the shadows. I'm in the camp that SS has its own split given there is no mention of the triforce (not found in the past when demise was defeated) and the fact that the goddess sword and the master sword exist simultaneously. Then looking into the fact that many events in the past of TOTK play out a bit like OOT but not exactly due to the alteration of the history of the land from demise being defeated way before he was curbstomped by the goddess statue island.
Raaru can merely be the first king of a new dynasty of the kingdom of Hyrule. Sonia could be the last remaining descendant of the previous dynasty before the arrival of the Zonai. The Zonai prior to Raaru and Mineru could have annihilated the previous dynasty of the kingdom of Hyrule and conquered for their own purposes before Raaru and Mineru chose to start a new dynasty upon Raaru marrying Sonia.
Here is a crazy thought, I don't disagree that Tears of the Kingdom's past happens so far in the future, but here is a crazy thought Hyrule Warriors is canon, and Tear's past happens after it. This explains why the kingdom needed to be refunded , and why both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom can reference multiple branches of the timeline at once, because Hyrule Warriors basically combined the 3 branches, and would have made the mixed history very muddy. Hence why the kingdom would need reformation, to rectify the time paradox for its now mixed people.
Alternatively it could just happen so far after Hyrule Warriors, those events themselves become myth and Hyrule is refounded anyway. This would make sense with Hyrule Warrior's Age of Calamity , as a sequel to Hyrule Warriors and a prequel to Breath of the Wild that creatures its own branch at its ending. Game Theory had this theory awhile ago, but I think there just even more evidence to support it now.
I remember when MatPat made that video! After he said that Hyrule Warriors solves the timeline, another Zelda Theorist (don't remember which one) made a video saying "uh... NO!" claiming that Lana and Cia as the overseer of the timeline are not canon, and that Hyrule Warriors doesn't actually unite the timelines, but only takes place in the Child Timeline.
Rauru was the first ever Hyrule king?.... So if Zelda travels back to essentially Zelda bible genesis
Was she just dragon chilling for like 100000000000000++ years in a sky while every freaking game took place???
No he was the first king of new hyrule
The timeline makes my OCD go wild
I honestly think the pointed ear thing is a genuine oversight.
Games with big teams like this usually have multiple artists.
I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that whoever designed Ganondorf remembered the ears and whoever they got to design the past Gerudo did not. And the modellers are just copying the concept art.
it's easy to just say "why didn't they catch this?", but when you have a large team like this, and especially this game being developed during COVID when everyone at Nintendo had to work remotely, I can see it slipping through the cracks.
perhaps, but eiji aonuma himself said he played through tears of the kingdom like 30 times during its development. i doubt that man, the same man that has a classified document about the established lore and timeline on his computer, would see any of the finished cutscenes and not notice the ears if they were a problem.
@@v7ave Indeed, *especially* *if* the idea was to place TotK's past between SS and OoT (which I think it isn't, but if it was, they'd pay minimal attention to at least not contradict cutscenes that supposedly play in that time frame).
@@v7ave Aonuma is the Producer. He's not the lead writer, lead designer, or lead artist. When He's playing the game 40 times, he's looking for bugs and gauging how the experience feels. I promise you he is not looking at characters ears.
Sharing a soul isnt soemtging new. We see it in Twighlight princess and also every time we see Phantom Ganon
On the point of co existing Ganondorfs, there's an uncontestable case of this happening in a very similar way with Zelda in Zelda 1/2. There's also weaker evidence for this with Link, with the hero's shade in TP (but that Link is dead rather than sealed) and also lttp link being the miiverse man in lbw (but that one's left ambiguous). So it seems perfectly reasonable that totk Ganondorf could have been sealed while other incarnations of Demise's hatred were about, I'm sure there's enough hatred to go around
TotK is changing a lot of the established franchise, possibly accidentally.
Because of Rauru's re-establishment of Hyrule, it would mean that Zelda's lineage is no longer based on the blood of Hylia, but instead the blood of the Zonai, an interesting distinction, I think.
On a side note, the tradition of naming a Princess "Zelda" would be lost to the old kingdom. We really should be looking forward to The Legend of Sonia!
Zelda still has the blood of the goddess, that's stated in the legend of the great calamity of 10000 years ago
@@ZeldaLore I was thinking about Rauru and forgot all about Sonia. She's almost certainly related to the Hyrule Royal family. But it makes me wonder why the old Kingdom disappeared and had to be re-established at all.
@@TheMegaMarshtomp You know if it weren't for the notorious lack of the Spirit Tracks and the Tower of Spiritis we could've just easily pushed BotW/TotK to the end of the Adult Timeline with Rauru and Sonia founding New Hyrule. Sadly it's not that easy
Has it already been asked is there a pdf of sort to this time line. I’d love some one to make a website or pages of the various timeline theories that function like the official time line. I’m on the abounded (rename fallen to canonical reason), convergence, and resettlement train. With repeating themes Hyrule established by those from the sky evil rises, is imprisoned by sages, then the evil breaks free causing destruction and chaos, to defeated by the princes’ hero. Any how fantastic work, the presentation of TotK in game was not as compelling as this. Thank you, oh yeah the pdf question any chance we can get a pdf of your timeline?
This is as close to confirmation of where totk fits as any. Well done my friend!
If Rauru's Hyrule was not the original I find it very unlikely that by coincidence it happens to be named the same.
The rito in WW and BotW/TotK look far too different to be the same race, I'd say. There's also the issue of where modern rito get their wings without Valoo.
I agree with your thinking that TotK might be a Soft Reboot.
It does seem like the implied new continuity is but acknowledging the pre-BotW games, but is going its own way despite how it might contradict pre-existing lore as recent as _Encyclopedia_ - which Zelda Wiki treats as the current state of canon.
Regarding BotW and _Creating A Champion_ - the lore in both was intended at the time to be a sort of reunification of the timeline, with BotW taking place in all three time branches. but so long in the future that it no longer mattered which one, as all three, regardless of the state of Hyrule, or the planet, in AoL, FSA, or ST, would lead into BotW without fail.
TotK's new continuity adds BotW retroactively, since it at least started as BotW's sequel, but takes a Broad Strokes approach while still stating that Link aided the four races between his awakening and his showdown with Calamity Ganon.
Speaking of Calamity Ganon, I don't think the passing of 10,000 years is relative to the start of BotW, rather, it was applied in general. It would make more sense if the ten-thousandth anniversary was when the Second Great Calamity occurred. But while it would make more sense, I personally don't treat that as hard truth. Unless Nintendo states that it is.
BotW itself says that the Ancient Furnaces have been burning for "over ten thousand years" not "exactly ten thousand years" implying they've been burning even longer. Who says it's not been burning for ten thousand, one hundred years?
Not Nintendo, that's for sure.
I don’t think ToTK takes place in the future of the timeline, since I really don’t think that they’d make a game about how Hyrule was founded, but then end up making it not the same Hyrule.
I think ToTK is a timeline split from Skyward Sword, where Demise was killed both in the past and in the present, with the final boss in SS taking place in the past, as well as Link wishing for Demise’s destruction by the Triforce in the present.
In the past, if Demise is killed rather than being sealed away, then the Link and Zelda of the past in SS have no reason to settle on the surface and eventually found Hyrule, like in the present timeline of Skyward Sword, and instead Zelda’s descendant, Sonia, alongside Rauru would found Hyrule in the new split. And Ganondorf could also be an alternate version of the one from OoT, which would explain away the contradiction.
ToTK retcons a lot of what BOTW did, so maybe in Ruto’s case, she helped save Hyrule from another threat that wasn’t Ganondorf himself. I think the Zora sage from the past could also be an alternate incarnation of Ruto, since she’s never given a name.
The SS time loop is a good point. Though they didnt actually kill demise in the past, link beat him and sealed him in the master sword. They did kill him in the present.
Maybe something happened between the demise SS link fights in the past and the begining of SS? Given that TotK didnt creat any branches since other the zelda bing present, no major players where removed from the events like in OOT and the possbile branch of SS.
In SS, it was also only the goddess statue then decends back to the surface. Its possible that the early skyloftians that stayed in the sky evalved into the Zoni or ocos.
Time is weird.
I'm glad to see you came to the same conclusion as me that this hyrule must have been a kingdom founded after the hyrule in previous games, the lore just makes no sense otherwise for all sorts of reasons. I didnt even think about how hyrule castle had previously been destroyed multiple times so that just cements the idea. However i must disagree with your depiction that this was way later in the child timeline, that makes no sense. From mentions of an ancient flood, the existence of the rito and koroks, the zora tablets directly talking about the battle with oot ganon (something which never happened in the child timeline), vah medoh being named after medli and so on, the only timeline that makes sense is the adult timeline. Ohh and dont even get me started on that whole "dragon break timeline" theory, thats just idiotic nonsense that boils down to "it doesnt make sense and i dont want to solve it, just accept it"
I propose that after WW, the kings wish to wash away hyrule did indeed work, that hyrule was wiped clean from history. The settlers went away to establish new hyrule in spirit tracks, but after many many years, perhaps that kingdom fell for who knows what reason. Over time the great sea dried up (just like the lanayru sea in SS) and people rediscovered the land, perhaps those people being the zonai. Thats when this hyrule was founded. Perhaps during this time they found the master sword still in ganons stone skull and accidentally released him back into the reincarnation cycle, thus creating the new ganon. This is the ONLY way i can see this game fitting in a timeline
But i will say, even then it still has its problems, heck this games story has problems even within its own story. Such as all the shiekah tech just vanishing without a trace, and with no one ever mentioning it at all. Theres also the problem of the hero from the ancient calamity. Now for those of you who dont know (spoilers ofcourse), a reward from getting all the shrines is you get to see the hero from the botw tapestry, and it turns out it was actually a half zonai hybrid. Which raises so many issues such as, this was supposed to be just the previous calamity cycle before botw's, and there was stated to be numerous cycles between then and the imprisoning war. So how was there still clearly zonai hybrids present when the last remaining zonai died during the war? If their genetics were strong enough to still look very zonai even upto just the previous calamity cycle, then where are they all now, surely there must be others too but there isnt. I just cant reconcile this one, like alot of stuff in this game it just doesnt make sense and really feels like they didnt want it to make sense
Your videos should get way more views
The main reason I think the flashbacks in TOTK take place prior to OOT is that it doesn’t make much sense that every version of Demises hate reincarnated is almost always Ganon. You’d think it would take more forms or evil followers would try resyrrecting someone like Vaati or even Demise again. It would make sense imo if all carnations of ganon were fractions of malice from the Ganon sealed by Rauru. Makes the whole thing fit better as well imo
Ganon is his incarnation. Demise was deliberately designed to resemble Ganondorf, and we even hear Ganondorf's leitmotif before the fight with Demise. In the Japanese game, when Demise mentions his incarnation, he refers to it as an "Incarnation of Hatred and Grudge", word for word the same exact title as Dark Beast Ganon in BOTW, Grudge being the Japanese word for Malice.
All other villains just happen to be antagonists that threaten Hyrule or other locations, but none of them are the incarnation of Demise's Hatred and Grudge, that solely belongs to Ganon.
@@ZeldaLore True , that def would make sense. Bit weird that each incarnation post demise is a male Gerudo named Ganondorf with no variation. Unless the curse is the curse of Ganon that he would continue to plague the land of Hyrule. I dunno, even though there is visual similarities and both Demise and Ganon share the same cursed spirit, it just seems weird that demise had a different name and race compared to ganondorf which would continue to stay very similar throughout the rest of the timeline
What is the music from 40:09 called I can't remember it lol
This is the best explanation. I don't care Nintendo's own timeline. Time has come to listen to fans who keep the franchise alive with their money.
Then throw in Terrako causing a timeline split for Age of Calamity.
NOTE:
About the Triforce
The Historia claims that "Rauru" hid the Triforce away in the Sacred Realm BEFORE the Kingdom of Hyrule was founded after people fought over it.
this reminds me of something Ganondorf said in the end
(Spoiler Warning
He shows his dissapointment that the Hylians live in Peace instead of fighting like maniacs which they apparently stopped doing, implying that there must have been some kind of War over the Triforce (maybe the War with the Intellopers even) that made Ganondorf amazed and make him grow his love for battle.
Historia says that, yes, however, ALBW tells us the sealing of the sacred realm took place when the Royal Family and the Kingdom of Hyrule were already established. The royal family ordered the sages to seal the Triforce in the sacred realm. The books are quite outdated (and much information in them is erroneous)
@@ZeldaLore ALBW's intro also says that Ganon was sealed at the End of Link to the Past with the 7 Maidens and also that the Triforce split immediately afterwards for no explainable reason, so I don't know if I'd look to it for accurate information. Not to mention, it just says "Hyrule", not "Kingdom of Hyrule", the Historia again mentioned that people called it Hyrule long before it became a proper Kingdom.
Descendants of Hylia call the land Hyrule > Triforce is sealed in the Sacred Realm > The Kingdom of Hyrule is established to keep it safe. If TOTK were before OOT, then this would completely explain WHY Rauru founded Hyrule, and WHY he wanted the Gerudo to join it so badly. He would've personally seen the Wars over the Triforce and never want them to repeat again.
@@megamannt125 I'm talking about the Japanese version:
王家はすさんだハイラル王国を憂い
七人の賢者を集めトライフォースを聖地に隠しました
"Hyrule Kingdom raged and the Royal Family grieved. So, they assembled the Seven Sages, who hid the Triforce in the Sacred Realm."
@@ZeldaLore Interesting. Did not know that. I actually do agree that the backstory taking place long after all the games is likely Nintendo's intention, but the alternative is also fun to think about and try to figure out. Hopefully they create some sort of Masterworks equivalent that makes it clearer.
side from binding botw and totk to the child timeline (which i highly disagree with, as i believe in the "it will happen this way eventually anyway" theorem and thus making it the uninevitable future of ALL timelines) this is finally a time line video that does NOT make the mistake to miss or leave out vital information given by TOTK
I think you're misunderstanding the Sheikah tribe. The Sheikah from the present, in BotW and TotK, are not a race but an Hylian tribe. Some people from Lurelin village became Sheikah. It's a way to live. Like you don't have to be a Sheikah first to be a Yiga, only Hylian.
About Ganondorf, I think we should just... separate BotW and TotK from the rest of the timeline. It's about rewriting the timeline. Before BotW came out, Aonuma said in an interview that BotW takes place after OoT. It was supposed to be looong after OoT, no matter the timeline. But considering the sales, he might want to recreate a whole new timeline for new players, instead of sticking to the old one. See this as a parallel timeline.
Zonai people didn't perish. They're said to be the last ones remaining. There may have been a lot that are still as the form of Gods. Maybe they were "nerfed" without the help of Secret Stones and may have lived with the Barbarians to defeat the before-last Calamity Ganon.
A lot of Zelda games have this principe:
- An ancient evil comes back
- According to the legends, people from the sky helped the hero / created the land
- The evil is sealed / killed
Most of the games are legends to each other, but also different versions of each legends. That's why I stopped trying to link each games as absolute. Some games are direct sequels, some games are blurry sequels, some games are not related at all, and other games contradict each others. That's why I prefer to have multiple boxes of timelines than one trying to fit everything.
That video is great, anyway, I'm just adding!
Also, fun fact, I don't know about English translation, but Ganondorf calls Link a kid, in TotK "I won't be defeated by a kid" (even if he's more than 20, making him the oldest known hero). These are almost the same words pronounced by Vaati after being killed (or second phase, I don't remember)
I mean technically Zelda and dragon Zelda technically both existed at the same time… and im sure reborn Zeldas were alive between Totk past and Botw present… all very paradoxical.
What about Link? When he and Zelda during this version of the sealing war ?
Why there are no master sword too ?
I think Ocarina of Time G-daddy would probably try to harness mummyganons power without awakening him.
He does have a floating castle with a giant pit below it
Makes you wonder if the Golden Goddesses truly created Hyrule, or if they were just powerful being who came before.
9:20 swiftly defeated Calamity ganon? It wasn’t swift my friend it took me like 200 hours
If the kingdom was reestablished how come the previous remnants of the kingdom from Ocarina of Time is evident.
Listen... The imprisoning war in Totk is an entirely new war by the same name as the one in OoT
I believe botw's and Totk's story takes place so far into the future that all the past games aren't even mentioned, not even in myth.
Edit: ok it seems you got to the point I proposed.
But now I'm not so sure anymore.
Good job. I just hope the next game does not contradict this
1. Zelda in botw was not being held by Ganon, she was the one containing him.
2. 8 years between botw and totk as Maddison is 7 yrs old in totk and Hudson and Rhonson only met and got married in botw.
3. The Zonai outdate the sheikah, (rest of this is theory) and so their descent may predate skyward sword. Perhaps it was Demise who wiped them out, before hylia saved the hylians, and so only one zonai family remained, with Rauru and Mineru being the children. The hero of the sky and Zelda of the sky had a child together called Sonia. Rauru then would we'd her and they established their kingdom. In the Gerudo region, a male had been born as Ganondorf. However, his Gerudo origin was not passed on in legend, hence the return of another Ganondorf in ocarina of time. Rauru sealed Ganondorf, killing Ganondorf but it cost him his body. Other Ganons and Ganondorfs etc could exist as technically Ganondorf was dead. He reawakened in tears of the kingdom prologue. Although, I do think its possible the zonai descended after skyward sword and they faced their first Ganon as there was an ancient zonai hero. It could still predate skyward sword, perhaps Demise emerged before and the zonai hero defeated him (not killed since the master sword didn't exist). Again, when the zonai descended I am not sure, but it was definitely many many years ago, probably predating most of the timeline if not all.
Zelda was both contained inside Ganon, consumed by him, and keeping him bound within the castle. They were in a constant struggle for 100 years.
We don't have any confirmation of Mattson's age.
The Zonai predate the Sheikah technology of 10,000 years ago, which was created long after all the games we knew of the timeline.
what if twinrova copied TOTK ganondorf to make Ocarina ganonforf??
So what happened to Four Swords Adventures Ganon?
Watch part 1. This theory proposes that Four Swords and FSA take place at the beginning of an alternate Downfall timeline set after the bad ending of Minish Cap
@@realMG420 as opposed ti an unseen ending in OOT
I honestly think BOTW/TOTK Are supposed to be a reboot of Zelda, and that lore of the prior games is even more cherry picked, and mostly discarded in favour of this new direction/identity for the series
The problem with the TOTK past being a re-founding of Hyrule is that that feels like something the game would have told us if it was meant to be a re-founding and not merely _the_ founding like the game says. I know there's a lot of puzzling questions that come with placing the past between SS and TMC, but such a placement would really fit well with TP's mentioning that Hyrule was founded by sky people. I know the Oocca and the Zonai are nothing alike, but you overlooked the fact that TP never actually says that the Oocca are the sky people that Shad refers to. In fact, the Japanese version of TP never even gives the chicken people a name at all, with "Oocca" being the name given to them in the English version. What's more, while you pointed out that the City in the Sky's architecture and technology are very different from those on the Zonai sky islands, the City in the Sky is also very ill-suited for the chicken people, as if it was built by some other race and the chicken folk just showed up later and simply moved in.
The Zonai just really fit the description of the sky people closest to the gods who founded Hyrule according to Shad in TP. But if it wasn't them who built the City in the Sky, could it not also have possibly been the Wind Tribe or might have built it? After all, the Wind Tribe were likewise a people connected to the sky from the kingdom's early days. They could have built the city, maintained contact with the surface via the messenger who wielded the Dominion Rod, then eventually either died out or abandoned the city, and then the chicken people moved in years later. And all the while, Shad's research into the sky peoples could have unknowingly conflated the Zonai and the Wind Tribe together.
As for the 400-year time scale between the TOTK Sealing War and the time of OOT making things difficult for TMC to fit, couldn't the War of the Bound Chest have come only a few years after the TOTK Sealing War? After the new Hyrule Castle was built over the Imprisoning Chamber, I mean. After all, the aftermath state of the kingdom following that war would have left Hyrule vulnerable to have been plagued by the monsters mentioned in TMC's backstory. While we never see or hear about King Rauru and Queen Sonia having had any children, the fact that Zelda is a blood descendent of theirs means that they had to have had at least one child somewhere offscreen. And hey, maybe King Gustaf was their son, which would theoretically place his reign far enough back.
Now, assuming that the young Koume and Kotake seen in TOTK's past aren't merely new versions of the elder ones from OOT, but are actually the younger versions of them, then we'd have a window of ~400 years between TOTK's past and OOT. If we were to place Gustaf as the very next king after Rauru and Sonia, the new Hyrule Castle could have been built by him, making the castle in TMC the same one that would later be in BOTW/TOTK. The Wind Tribe would keep in touch with Hyrule during Gustaf's reign via the Messenger of the Heavens before ascending into the Cloud Tops and building the City in the Sky.
The War of the Bound Chest would then occur a few years later, with the Picori giving the Hero of Men the Picori Blade. Like you said, the door to the Picori Realm opens only once every 100 years, but who's to say that the time during War of the Bound Chest was the first time this happened? The door could have opened a number of times before, maybe even once during Rauru and Sonia's reign (if the two had had long enough lifespans, that is). The door's opening during TMC could have only been one century after the War of the Bound Chest. This would then roughly given roughly 200 more years of time to occur between TMC and OOT. Plenty of time for more wars to happen since this isn't like Transformers where a single war can span 4 million years. We don't need multiple centuries for the Triforce War, the Triforce being selaed inside the Sacred Realm, the prolonged wars, and the Fierce War to have all occurred in succession, especially if those wars weren't fought between many multiple large nations on a global scale. All of that can happen within one century, or a century and a half at the most.
Meanwhile, you said yourself in Part 1 that the first sealing of Vaati in the FS backstory would have happened well before the Triforce War not long after TMC's Bad Ending, even implying that the Link who sealed Vaati inside the Four Sword was TMC Link himself. And since that's on a separate timeline branch anyway, it doesn't seem quite as pertinent to TOTK.
And then there's the Rito. You mentioned that they evolved from the Zora in TWW. However, that is something that Hyrule Historia said, not TWW. At no point during TWW is it ever stated that the entire Rito race originated from the Zora race after an evolutionary leap. All that is stated by TWW on the matter is that Medli (the sole Rito in that game who has Zora-esque pale white skin, while all the others have shades of tan and brown) has a Zora for an ancestor. That could mean any number of things. If TOTK's past taking place between SS and TMC means that the Rito already existed, then the very different-looking Rito seen in TWW could have very well been a hybrid race born from breeding between the Zora, the Rito, and even the Hylians since the TWW Rito postal worker Koboli is said to have been descended from a certain postman, in reference to the fact that his face resembles the OOT Running Man and MM Postman. TWW Rito even look more like Hylians than any other race, being bird-like humanoids with skin instead of humanoid birds with feathers.
As for the Gerudo's ears, it could be that they started off having long pointy ears, lost them after turning away from Goddess Hylia, and then regained them years later after coming back to find favor in Hylia. After all, popular theory is that the Gerudo were all descended from Groose, who had pointy ears too. TOTK Ganondorf could have been the first Gerudo born with pointy ears, being the incarnation of Demise's hatred and thus naturally opposed to Hylia's ways. He could have influenced the young Koume and Kotake to have likewise turned against Hylia, and once Ganondorf was sealed away, the bent Koume and Kotake could have gone on to influence the Gerudo tribe to turn away from Hylia and worship the false deity known as the Goddess of the Sand. Some have even theorized that the two of them were even behind the Goddess of the Sand, with their Twinrova form essentially representing that false goddess. Koume and Kotake would have then gone on to groom the second Ganondorf of OOT (and FSA in the 2D timeline) to continue the legacy of the original Ganondorf. And after the final defeat of both him and the two witches, the Gerudo tribe would have finally been free of their influence to eventually gain redemption and return to worshipping Hylia, giving them back their pointy ears.
I have some more to say, but the character limit on this comment isn't big enough, so I'll continue in a reply of my own to this post...
Continuing from above
As for how there could have even been a second Ganondorf while the first one was sealed deep underground, along with the lack of any male Gerudo being born afterward, I've been brainstorming about Demise's curse and how TOTK Ganondorf, OOT/TP/TWW/FSA Ganondorf, the Ganons of the 2D games and even ST Malladus all tie together with the curse, in relation to this revised timeline (which I do vastly prefer over the "official" one). You have Demise coming first, who places the curse upon his defeat in SS. Then TOTK Ganondorf is born as the first incarnation of Demise's hatred. Between Demise and OOT Ganondorf, TOTK Ganondorf physically resembles a midway point between the two, especially in his Demon King form. What's more, unlike the many versions of OOT Ganondorf, TOTK Ganondorf never obtains any upgraded pig demon form named "Ganon", he is only ever named "Ganondorf", "the Demon King", and the "Demon Dragon".
Following TOTK Ganondorf being sealed deep underground, OOT Ganondorf would be born a few centuries later. How? Well, when King Rauru sealed TOTK Ganondorf, he essentially stopped TOTK Ganondorf's heart. When TOTK Link and Zelda first happen upon his mummy, the first sounds of a revived heartbeat don't occur until after Rauru's hand finally lets go of the mummy and falls to the ground. During all those many eons, TOTK Ganondorf was clinically dead, which was probably dead enough to let a second Ganondorf be born as the third incarnation of Demise's hatred, with the now elder Koume and Kotake raising him to carry on the legacy of their original master. As for why this new Ganondorf wouldn't have bother to free the original from his underground seal, the new Ganondorf has too much of an ego in OOT to care. The Triforce is an even greater power than the Sacred Stones, and it's right there for the taking inside the Temple of Time's doorway to the Sacred Realm. He'll go after that instead of some old fossilized namesake who failed in his mission, a legacy that OOT Ganondorf has no interest in continuing, preferring to forge his own legacy.
And once he's finally killed off for good in TP, this Ganondorf's dying words in the Japanese version are "Do not think it all ends here. Instead, think of this as the beginning of a history of blood-drenched struggle between light and darkness!" Now that we know about the original Ganondorf of TOTK, this could retroactively be taken to mean that OOT/TP Ganondorf is aware of the original and is predicting his eventual return, which comes in the form of multiple Calamities prior to BOTW and finally the Upheaval in TOTK. Plus, once TP Ganondorf dies, the Gerudo would stop having males because Rauru's seal on the original would begin to weaken just enough for the original Ganondorf's essence to start sealing out in the form of Malice-born Calamities. The Malice the Calamities would be made from might have just enough of the original Ganondorf's soul in it to stop the birth of all future Gerudo males, since the original Ganondorf, a Gerudo male, would now be seeping some of his life back into the world.
As for the castle being destroyed in OOT's Adult Timeline and damaged TP, it was said in TOTK that the castle was built over the seal to protect it, but not that the seal would break if the castle was removed. The castle just exists to hide the seal, not strengthen it. At the time that the castle was destroyed in OOT's Adult Timeline and damaged in TP, the seal was likely still strong enough to keep hold. Rauru's seal only started to weaken when all the Calamities first started, which was eons after the seal was first placed. So it was the long passage of time that eroded the seal.
Anyway, that's all pertaining to the Child Timeline on which BOTW and TOTK have been placed. Over in the Adult Timeline, the castle is destroy like we mentioned, but the seal still holds. By the time of TWW, the entirety of Hyrule is washed away and destroyed, by a wish placed upon the Triforce, meaning the gods completely wiped out Hyrule and everything in it. In theory, this means that TOTK Rauru and Ganondorf were wiped out too, meaning TOTK Ganondorf never even gets the chance to revive in this timeline. And thus, with both the original Ganondorf destroyed and the second Ganondorf killed by the Master Sword, Demise's curse has no other option but to create a successor incarnation, a new Demon King, in the form of Malladus in ST.
Over in the 2D timeline, we still get the second Ganondorf born and groomed by Koume and Kotake, only this Ganondorf first goes after the Trident instead of the Triforce, instigating the events of FSA, in which he is sealed inside the Four Sword. He eventually gets out of the Four Sword, goes after the Triforce, becomes the pig demon Ganon, and starts the ALTTP Imprisoning War. ALTTP happens, in which he is killed off. Then he gets resurrected by Koume and Kotake in the Oracle games, but is defeated once more. He then comes back again in ALBW, and here's where things get interesting, as I have a new idea that I've seen no one else ever mention.
In TMC, Vaati is very clearly blown up and destroyed at the end of that game, instead of sealed inside the Four Sword like the FS backstory claimed. You, LoruleanHistorian, and Instrutilus fixed this discrepancy by having this "Vaati dies" ending lead to OOT while the alternate Bad Ending where Vaati is not killed lead instead to the FS backstory in which Vaati is sealed instead of killed. Well, a similar discrepancy exists between ALBW (in which Ganon, or Yuga Ganon, is very clearly blown up and destroyed at the end of that game) and the original TLOZ (in which Ganon is somehow alive and invading Hyrule with no explanation). Hyrule Historia and Encyclopedia tried to fix this by just saying "he inevitably returned again, just don't question it." That's kinda lazy. SO, I have a new idea!
With TOTK's past set between SS and TMC making TOTK Ganondorf the original Ganondorf destined to reappear once Rauru's seal on him finally breaks, what if the original Ganon from TLOZ/AOL is actually this original Ganondorf who finally broke free of Rauru's seal in this timeline? The Ganon of ALTTP/OoX/ALBW would be the FSA/ALTTP Ganondorf, and would be killed for good in ALBW. Then, some time so far into the future after TFH, this timeline's version of the original TOTK Ganondorf would break free of Rauru's seal, launch an invasion of Hyrule, steal the Triforce of Power (which would be enough to turn him into the pig demon Ganon just it did for OOT and TP Ganondorf), and conquer Hyrule to set up everything for the events of TLOZ to play out. This would explain where TLOZ Ganon came from, and everyone in Hyrule would just think he's the same Ganon as before instead of a different one since they wouldn't know about the original TOTK Ganondorf being his own person since TOTK stated that the Royal Familykept the existence of TOTK Ganondorf a secret from everyone.
TLOZ's Hyrule is even as open and damage as BOTW's Hyrule, and the castle is just gone in TLOZ, which could have just been destroyed upon TOTK Ganondorf's emergence from underground and his acquisition of the Triforce of Power during his invasion. Frankly, I find it a thematically appropriate idea of the original Ganon of TLOZ being the original Ganondorf from TOTK.
Phew! I think that's everything. Let me know if I missed any other issues to address with TOTK's past being set between SS and TMC.
Wow this is really thorough! To add: I don’t believe it is ever stated in game that the Gerudo in Botw/TotK no longer have male babies. It was only stated in Creating a Champion. Since Creating a Champion was created under the belief that Calamity Ganon was OoT Ganondorf, it’s likely many of its details are now retconned. It’s possible that the Gerudo are still having male babies but do not let them enter Gerudo town or become their leader.
You know what's really disheartening is that Nintendo said they don't care about the old games (in a new interview) that means all our struggles to figure out a proper timeline are in vain and most likely TOTK is a complete new reboot of the past after Skyward Sword (we still have Fi at least).
I still don't think TotK's memories are meant to come after all the older games.
I think the intention is for them to be set during Hyrule's initial founding, & Ganondorf's Sealing is what allows him to reincarnate instead of Demise's hatred assuming a new form.
I have counters for most of your points, but instead of spending the rest of my day writing them out here in this comment, I'm just going to make my own video on the topic covering each point in depth.
Wish me luck.
Send a link to your video here in the comments after your done. I would love to see it.
Wrong
Zelda existed as the light dragon throughout the entire history of the Kingdom of hyrule. So if many zeldas can exist at once then a dead(sealed) Ganondorf and a new one can coexist.
Zelda time travelled, Ganondorf didnt
Rito appear to have both loftwing and Zora eyes in botw and totk, so these can have co-emerged in different points
The rito of Windwaker were turned into that form from Zora by the gods to prevent anyone from accessing the depths of the sea
Here's my interpretation of the timeline.
The Creation
Skyward Sword
TotK past
Ancient Calamity
The Great Calamity
BotW
TotK
All games in between SS and BotW were dreams Link had while he was napping in the Shrine of Resurrection for 100 years.
I would say that totk didn’t retcon ootdorf being calamity Ganon at all. I would argue that they were all the phantom or alter ego of totkdorf but they have no memory of the other because the bunshin was created in a subconscious act while the original was sealed.
Except that it’s confirmed no male Gerudo were born since the Gerudo king who became the calamity
@@befrescas where is that confirmed, I’ll answer that question nowhere. And nowhere is it implied that every male gerudo will become evil.
@@whyshouldi9786 page 401 of Nintendo’s official book on Breath of the Wild, Creating a Champion, literally says “According to Gerudo records there has not been another male Gerudo leader since the king who became the Calamity.” I’m not sure if you watched the full thing but he cites that exact same passage in the video as well.
@@befrescas it says there hasn’t been another male gerudo leader since ootdorf not as you are stating that there are no male gerudo after ootdorf.
@@whyshouldi9786 mmm no, “king who became the calamity” is TotK Ganondorf, not OoT Ganondorf. Like, TotK Ganondorf is LITERALLY the king who became the calamity, that’s his whole thing. And it says verbatim no other male Gerudo leader since “the king who became the calamity”. That isn’t OoT, that’s TotK. OoT dorf did not become the calamity, unless you’re saying OoT Ganondorf is the original Ganondorf that came before TotK, but then they still would not have lived at the same time, OoT would have happened first and then TotK.
Even though I love watching videos of Zelda timeline and lore, I think we're overthinking it. Nintendo intended for BOTW to be a soft reset of the timeline so they don't have the constraints of previous lore. Yes, there are many Easter eggs from previous games but it's obvious those are just Easter eggs.
Botw is still in the timeline, stated by Aonuma himself. It's just at the very end.
@@ZeldaLore I totally get that. I'm not saying it doesn't. What I'm saying it's that it is intended as a soft reboot so it can leave behind all the baggage from the past.
yeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh but that's boring if it's just after
Fully agreed, except with your restructuring of the timeline. But I do agree TotK's past plays long, long after any/all timelines.
I recommend Thinking At Max Volume's Dragon Break theory video on TotK, which also places TotK's past after any/all timelines.
I believe there's a possibility that OOT/WW/TP Ganondorf are actually a creation of TOTK Ganondorfs malice just like Calamity Ganon. We never saw what Calamity Ganons true physical form looked like, but that Ganondorf shares other forms with it, that being the Smoke form (TP) and the Pure Rage form (Ganon).
There’s actually a lot to evidence this especially once you realize that everything points to totks imprisoning war being before minish cap.
@@whyshouldi9786 Right, and in regards to the Memory thing Zelda Lore mentioned in the video, we have no idea if Calamity Ganon and Sealed Ganondorf share memories, and there's actually a lot that contradict that idea. (Calamity Ganon didnt send any monsters underground to attempt to free him, and Sealed Ganondorf only recognized Link because of Rauru)
Yeah but that was never hinted at mi amigo
@@clonetrooper2003 except for the evidence in the video and the fact that the imprisoning war takes place before oot
If two Zeldas and two master swords can coexist, it could mean that two Ganondorfs can co exist aswell
Those two examples were caused from them travelling time. Ganondorf did not
Lol, man's spends the entire video building up the idea that BotW and TotK come after windwaker. Then proceeds to put it after twilight princess 🤦♂️
Watch part 1
@ZeldaLore I did... not sure what I missed in it that would have the events of the adult time of Ocarina of Time, destruction of hyrule, and rito evolving in the child timeline
@@mmaaauuuuiiiii he explained that in part 1
Hold on at first, you say that no Ganondorf tried to free the imprisoned version, from TotK past, then you point out that two absolutely destroyed the castle. Also, I don't see where Sonia's ancestry ever came up; just that she was/is Zelda's ancestor. The largest problem I have with TotK past being after Skyward Sword, is that the Master Sword was completely unheard of, aside from what Zelda tells them. If the sword existed, even a hint, Rauru would have wanted to make use of it, or find someone who could.
I place that past before Skyward Sword, even before the war with Demise. The Ganondorf in TotK obviously drew power from Demise. When sealed, it gave Demise cause to emerge. Over time, the Ganondorf sealed by Rauru managed to leak enough power past the imperfect seal, and reincarnate himself. Then, with each destruction of the castle, the seals weakened. The male Gerudos stopped being born because the seals were weakened enough for Ganon to manifest more directly, in the forms of the calamities.
That doesn't mean the MS doesn't exist in TOTK past. Rauru doesn't know about anything other than the Goddess Hylia so why would he know about the MS?It seems like the Zonai just came down and proclaimed the kingdom of Hyrule but who knows if Rauru and Mineru weren't told that the name came from an ancient kingdom that used to exist on the surface?
Also this Rauru is not human and the 1 we see in Ocarina of time is and it's that specific Rauru that Hyrule Historia says built the temple of light inside the sacred realm and built a new temple of time over that point in the sacred realm over the sealed temples ruins. So this has to be a new Rauru. Nintendo has also said in interviews that BOTW takes place after Ocarina of time.
1.) No previous Ganon's actions were directly aimed at freeing himself. Also, if Ganondorf was sealed under OOT's and TP's Hyrule castle he would have been freed during those games or very shortly after. In BOTW even though the castle was in an awful state the basic framework was still there. It wasn't any damage they couldn't repair. And that minor damage weakened Ganon's seal. Now imagine how weak the seal would be with the entire castle flattened.
2.) Sonia has to be a descendant of the goddess Hylia and SS Zelda because Hylia in SS Zelda was the first ever person with the blood of the goddess. She has to be the oldest woman in the Royal Family's line. Because Sonia directly says Zelda shares a blood connection with her and Rauru she has to be after SS Zelda on the family tree minimum.
3.)Even if Rauru wanted to use the Master Sword he would have to first find it, then find the current incarnation of the Hero's spirit. And there is no telling if the Hero's spirit even incarnated at that time. Also Zelda would warn him what Ganon did to the Master Sword in her time. Why would Rauru waste time and resources to find the sword, and a wielder for the sword that did nothing to Ganon?
@@adamant_viewer
1) The castle protects the seals, not the seals directly. The damage caused in both games obviously didn't go deep enough to destroy the seals. The deepest shown damage was Ocarina of Time, and it was a small divit, compared to how fat down those seals were. Link has to dive down into the depths, then go deeper still. The attacks may have sped up the breaking of the seals, but showedvno sign of going deep enough.
2) The blood connection between Zelda and Sonia, as presented, are ancestor (Sonia) to descendant (Zelda). Zelda being directly related to Hylia does not mean that Sonia is. Sonia was a priestess, a servant, of Hylia. Her own linage is never stated.
3) There should have still been a recognition. To assume the past takes place any time after SS, it would mean that the Master Sword was completely wiped from historical awareness, the hero's spirit wasn't born during Hyrule's greatest need, then people somehow remembered about the weapon, and the spirit of the hero went back to work.
@@nworder4life
Your first point only works if the entire kingdom is made of Zoni. No, we have numerous races that would have been there to pass on the knowledge, and stories of the hero and blade. No spark of recognition from Sonia. No spark of recognition from the sages. No spark of recognition from the chamberlain who carvrd the floating tablets
As for Rauru, in Ocarina of Time. It is stated that he existed for a huge amount of time. It is also suggested that he is already inna spirit form before Ocarina of Time Link ever meets the sage. King Rauru is shown to be a builder king, who uses owl symbolism, and builds with portals. Why are the portals important? They are the easiest way to allow the Temples of Time to exist in a logical manor, while also keeping the resting place of the Master Sword the same. We are shown that spirits can interact, can put off moving on near indefinitely, and can change how they appear.
As for your last point, we are not given an indication of the time gap between Totk past and present. BotW, and TotK present are undoubtedly in the furthest future we have. Zelda being sent to before any other game does not change this.
@@RyuuKageDesu the castle point is easy to argue about for eternity so I will disregard it to save us both time.
But the biggest piece of evidence that immediately disregards your theory is that Skyward Sword always refers to the surface before the Skyloftians defend onto it as, the surface. And in the ending of Skyward Sword Groose, Zelda and Link all talk about what to name the new settlement of the Skyloftians. Which the game HEAVILY hints at was the moment Hyrule was named. They also HEAVILY hints that SS Link and SS Zelda are the founders of the kingdom. Retconing Rauru and Sonia to be the founders would be erasing 10 years of accepted lore.
Also another piece of evidence would be the total lack of Gerudo, Zora, and Rito.
None of those races existed before Skyloft was raised because Hylia would have recruited them to fight alongside every other race. The Rito, Gerudo, and Zora would have no reason to refuse.
The reason I think SS lore should be taken as fact is because Hidemaro Fujibayashi is the director of SS, BOTW, and TOTK. If any game were to be retconed I think SS is the least likely.
Its such lazy and dare i say it BORING storytelling to set this all after everything and say it was lost to time. Ugh.
Im in the camp of ToTKs memories being before Skyward Sword altogether. The Zonai are the functioning society/conflict that Link visits in Skyward Sword's past. TOTK's Zelda, in that era, makes the ORIGINAL prophecy that Hylia then fulfills by building the Goddess Sword. It explains Koume and Kotake. The constructs are the Lanayru robots. Ganondorf (totk memories) is the OG, the first surrogate for Demise. Once he is sealed and dehydrated, Demise leaves his body and wages war on Hylia (SS past). The other iteration of Ganondorf (OoT, Ww, TP, etc) is another Gerudo male with Ganondorf's (TOTK) spirit. Yes that one random excerpt from the book that states another Gerudo male hasnt been born since the one who caused the Calamity...undoes itself. Ganondorf isnt really alive under the castle. Until the Calamity, he isnt stirring. His spirit, and Demises power, have inhabited another body. But after the calamity, as his original body becomes less dead and more undead, the Gerudo male bloodline stalls.
Legitimately everything else is so cosmetic. The rito, rhe gerudo ears, the desert being a forest, the location of the Temple of Time (its different every game, folks) etc. COSMETIC. the storytelling is so much more compelling and epic if Ganondorf's body has been underneath for the entire lore, and respectively Zelda being the light dragon the ENTIRE time. Bigger scope and better story.
You could consider it to be lazy, not like it, etc, but it's something that Nintendo would definitely do. Look at how they completely rebooted the Pikmin series the with Pikmin 4.
TOTK's past events can't take place before SS. Ganondorf is the incarnation of Demise's hatred, Demise was the first demon to rise in Hyrule, the source of evil in the world, he brought upon the demons, he's the first demon king.
There's also the fact the Zonai placed artifacts of the heroes of the past in chests across the depths, with maps to their locations in the sky islands that no one, not even the Rito, could reach on their own, and for those artifacts to exist during the time of the Zonai, must mean the events took place after the known games (and of course the Zonai era, when they were at their prime, being long before Rauru's time as well)
@@ZeldaLore i hear that, but its not nearly as compelling a story. I do believe Ganondorf (the man) could have existed in an era pre-Skyward Sword, and the obtaining of the secret stone allowed Demise (a primordial God, who Fi herself has said predates time itself) to enter his body and use him as a conduit for his power. Him being sealed in this form would necessitate Demise's breach (you may notice that Ganondorfs corpse does not have the demon king hair or the horns,, he is just the man... Demise left his body) which would necessitate Hylia coming to the rescue. If you think about it, at that point Zelda is a dragon, Rauru is dead Sonia is dead, there's no one to protect Hyrule except Hylia, who at that point would KNOW that TotK's Zelda foretold a hero with a sword. Then she just builds the sword.. How cool is that! that the prophecy made of the ORIGINAL hero could very well have been made by the most recent iteration Zelda, back in time.
As far as the old map chests are concerned, they're the amiibo gifts from breath of the wild. Fan service. Again a lot of these minor things are really cosmetic but when it comes to these central characters, the story is much better served by a past that predates everything we know
@@ZeldaLore further, how is it that the Zonai who seem to know all about the Cap of the Wind, the Biggoron's Sword, Majora's Mask etc enough to hide them in chests, know nothing about the Master Sword when Zelda visits the past? My headcanon tells me that (besides the chests being mostly easter eggs and not plot/lore related) they don't know about the Master Sword because there isn't one yet, aside from the one that gets sent back from the future. Didn't the writer/director of these games also write and direct Skyward Sword? It makes more sense to me that, after Totk memories, the events take place that lead us directly into the prologue of Skyward Sword. If this is the case, I think its brilliant. Youre right,, it doesn't explain some of these minor inconsistencies, but it makes Ganondorf, Hylia, Zelda, and even Koume/Kotake's back stories much richer
I personally feel like ganon being under the castles and Zelda being the light dragon the whole time in all the other games completely undermines them and makes it all pointless. I much prefer it being so far in the future that the story is just repeating itself and will do forever, I guess that also makes it pointless but in a more pleasing way to me personally. That's the beauty of this, we can all think what we like because none of it is really canon, despite what the Nintendo books say! I would have liked it to link back to SS better but it doesn't without undermining everything between so it's a no from me.
@@misseskimo1 you're right! We can all have our own headcanons and that's beautiful. I think those two characters being in their respective "prisons" for the whole lore doesn't undermine much except little insignificant stuff. To me, it ADDS a tragic twist, a dark truth, and significance to both these iterations of Ganondorf and Zelda. It makes the Ganondorf in particular seem like the phsyical SOURCE of all the other incarnations. The weed that finally gets pulled