Did I Just Solve 3 of Zelda's Biggest Mysteries? - 3 The Legend of Zelda Theories!
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2023
- The Zelda series is riddled with unsolved mysteries, but among the endless stream of questions, we may finally have answers to 3 of the biggest unsolved mysteries ever to come to light!
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#zelda #breathofthewild #tearsofthekingdom #skywardsword #ocarinaoftime #zonai #nintendo #nintendoswitch - Hry
Fun Fact: Farosh is in this video. Can you spot them? 🔍👀
Theirs lowrule?
Found it, it's between 00:00 -17:27
@@beastmode9988 😱
7:40. I noticed it first pass!
@@MG-mh8xp Winner winner, chicken dinner!
If Zelda is the incarnation of the goddess... the incarnation of the bargainer must be, of course, Beedle
Oooooooh! 🪲
It all makes PERFECT sense! :O
Who would Tingle represent?
@@oldoutlet6946pure evil
Yes
Regarding statues moving themselves - you missed the part where the Forgotten Temple statue raises herself up after getting power from the three springs. It's definitely something they can do.
Also, the wellspring ones refer to the forgotten temple one as if they were separate entities.
Just like the lookout landing bargainer mentions its brothers as if each statue was someone else.
6:40
@@Aladato then do any of them actually channel the goddess, or just live as their own entities, like Fi? The Forgotten Temple one should be the oldest, likely being the same one as in Skyward Sword, so if any do, I'd assume that one does. Though, it still existed at the same time as Hylia so even that won't add up.
@xinpingdonohoe3978 What I always assumed is that the Goddess is in all of the Goddess statues, but the statues are not one and the same. So basically, they're all the Goddess, but since they're all different statues, they are not the same entity.
Basically
H (Hylia) Gds (Goddess statues
H = gds1
H = gds 2
H = gds 3
Gds1 = H
Gds2 = H
Gds3 = H
But
Gds 1 ≠ gds 2
Gds 2 ≠ gds 3
Etc.
@@TheMaskedNate you'll have to explain it in a different way. Equality is transitive, so I don't really follow. Maybe set theory would work. Something like
H ⊇ {Gds k : 1≤k≤n} if there are n Goddess statues. Or maybe not.
In art terminology, the space around a subject is called “negative space” so the three pieces of the triforce when joined create a void of negative space, no need for a physical dark piece when it’s place is implied
Exactly what I thought, thereby it could also mean that the goddesses try to restrain the darkness. Ergo, why it isn’t visible. Ergo, that the goddesses wouldn’t be there if the negative space got filled up. Quite a nice add-up to the theory on this video, because followed by the video there was only a god of chaos before the 3 goddesses showed up, as if the negative spaced triangle already was there and the 3 triangles being there for restraining the chaos.
I always love good symbolism, something never really being done in the corporate world, because it mostly lacks consistency of symbolism, it can’t be done simple, even though the result might seem simple or ‘fairy’ (dutch, zweverig). But when it comes to games and world-building I think symbolism is something worthwhile in the right setting. Maybe one of the reasons I tend to love Zelda more and more, it’s kind of world-building with world-building right? It’s a way that makes art experiential, because it is about experience and ways to look at things. Sometimes I don’t care about creators confirming theories, I just like to see meaning in stuff that goes further and deeper into the game and not waiting to be it confirmed by creators, there is also a different sense of feeling, how obvious the designer could put the symbolism in it. And when those symbolism align up in a literal sense (Triforce design stuff),it really makes me awe-inspiring with goosebumps, just because it fits in my head, and that’s enough for me.
That’s my presentation, any questions? 😆
Where there is a god of light, there is a god of darkness.
I would argue the Barginer statues are more neutral than evil
This. They even distinguish specifically that they care not for the ideas of good and evil, because they are steadfast in their purpose of guiding all souls and spirits to whatever afterlife exists within the BotW/TotK universe. I don't think they are even affiliated with the horned statue, although I do find it plausible that Hylia would have a divine opposite.
Never implied the God of Darkness, or the Bargainer Statues were evil. Because they make deals with anyone, regardless of their moral alignment, this could be perceived as evil but they are simply just non biased. They don't care what the deals are or who they deal with, so long as an exchange is made.
The bargainers are strictly neutral, they state this precise thing.. but in the over all equation.. they represent the balance between light and dark.. (imo)
Life in death, as death in life.
All part of the balance.
But they are the opposite of good kinda. As instead of being an extreme like good or evil they are as you said, neutral. Neutrality is not good nor evil and non of its actions can really be said to be either. Thus its the other extreme. Good and evil being one set of extremes, Neutrality the other side...
I love the idea that Demise is essentially a Dark Goddess's chosen Knight, fighting to defend their chaotic land from the invading Golden Goddesses. Such a cool idea and I wish I could play that game now.
I truly believed that demise was actually from lowrule looking for the triforce after they wished there’s destroyed.
I like the theory about demise and the tetraforce
Maybe Nintendo is still trying to keep botw a mystery on where it’s placed in the timeline. That’s why they named events from many previous games, to keep us confused. Idk tho
I think the sad truth is Nintendo never really intended to have a solid and coherent timeline and it wanted to separate itself as far as possible from fan speculation
I feel like it is faaaaaaar into the future and zelda traveled just after skyward sword when hyrule started to become a thing on the ground. Idk why people dont like that
@@floopsfooglie213because they don't want more questions, they want easy answers.
@@floopsfooglie213 Because then what is the point of the TotK seal on Ganondorf? If placed after Skyward Sword, then he shouldn't be able to inflict the damage he does in OoT, TP, WW etc.
Also, why are Sophia's physical traits quite different from SS Link and Zelda? Why does nobody mention the Triforce in the ancient past? Shouldn't the royal family be in possession of it, if we go by SS's ending? How did the Gerudo establish as a people?
I think that BOTW and TOTK timeline just had similar events that's why they have the same name.
What I found interesting is that the Bargainer Statue in the Great Abondoned Mine looks like it was partially excavated before the Zonai decided to just build their structures around them. I wonder if after they found that one, they took it upon themselves to find the rest. Some only partially uncovered.
It seems one of those yiga reports mentions that the bargainer statue took the soul from one of them on getting near it.
The Zonai on their mining operations might have exposed their locations so people would avoid having their souls snatched.
@@Aladato Don't bargainer statues only take "lost" souls? Because if that's the case that just makes me pity the Yiga even more.
@@freshlymemed5680 Good point, that's what they said to us.
The poor Yiga have been on this quest for thousands of years, so the bargainer did not hesitate to rapture one of them.
Sad indeed.
One of the Bargainer Statues in the Depths is standing fully unobstructed out in the open. I wonder if the Zonai even discovered them, but may have been instructed to in exchange for something.
@@AladatoThe Yiga report is reporting on a rumor. Even if it were true, that's not telling the full story; did the Yiga who supposedly lost his soul try to damage it or something? Who knows?
It seems far more likely that Botw and TotK happen after the other games in the split timelines. That means even when Zelda went back in time, she was still after those games. The reasoning for this is the existence of the Rito, who were present in TotK's past that Zelda travels to. They didn't exist before the original Imprisoning War. That means the Imprisoning War in TotK is a new one. Because of her references of past games in BotW, that seems to imply that at some point the split timelines reconverged at some point in the legendary past, before the Zonai descended. Most likely some hereforeto unknown cataclysm wiped out most of Hyrulian civilization and it wasn't until it recovered enough for Rauru to come down and forge it into a kingdom that the pieces for the eternal conflict could resume.
This, exactly.
Let's say Zelda went back 20,000 years (10,000 before the first calamity Ganon, 10,000 years ago):
It would still have been many generations after all the previous events, lost to time. The "imprisoning war" mentioned within totk would be the second imprisoning war in truth.
Seemingly, the unification of the timeline happened when the entire world was torn asunder on a massive scale, affecting each timeline.
After this event (likely aided by the goddesses), all 3 worlds were combined to create the "prime" earth* represented in the new setting.
Either way, great work, love and peace folks!
That's all but been confirmed through context clues in TOTK and BOTW.
@@stickinittotheman1 It would actually likely be just another in a number of Imprisoning Wars throughout time. Lots of events bear similarities to the one mentioned in ALTTP and could be referred to as such.
"Unknown cataclysm"? It was the flood. When the timelines converged the Great Flood was still around. The only Hyrule that survived was New Hyrule (and possibly Eastern Hyrule, which might be the same place). When the waters finally receded the Hyrulean peoples returned to their homeland and Sonia and Rauru re-founded Hyrule. Also the Zonai descend from the Oocca, who in turn descend from the Wind Tribe.
This has been said by the developers years ago. They take place at the end of all timelines
In a ton of creation myths and stories the word “chaos” is not the definition we know well of disorder and craziness but it usually means nothing or emptiness (like in the Greek Creation Myth), so in the creation story they meant that there was nothing until the 3 goddesses created the world of hyrule not that there was a world of war and chaos before the golden goddesses made hyrule
Maybe that is exactly what a fourth tri-force is supposed to be.
The negative space that is in the middle is the literal allegory for the nothingness.
Worth noting is that "Void" (sometimes rendered as "Ether") is considered a classical element in Japanese folklore in the same basic way that the Greeks used Air, Earth, Fire, and Water.
"Before there was time... before there was _anything,_ there was nothing... And before there was nothing... there were monsters."
I think the fourth piece being the light force instead of an evil counterpart to the goddesses is more likely since Din blessing Ganondorf in twilight princess would indicate they they are all neutral or that Din is the rebellious if not straight up evil one
Din doing a little pranking just because she can is totally what a goddess of power will do regardless of affiliation
@@themushroominside6540 kinda messed up if you consider the consequences but yea, just a prank bro xd
Oops, another prank! Clean it up, Link!
Twilight Princess' statues kinda implied that the proto-Gerudo were retainers to a Din focused religion and like, the hatred of Demise or the entity of Ganon didn't technically enter the Gerudo bloodline until the twinrova hags performed some sort of ritual, so I tend to gravitate more towards the Gerudo just being associated with power and Din in general and that the golden goddesses themselves did not really care about Hyrule after creating it and their blessings from the triforce are very neutral.
Although, depending on how you choose to interpret the Oracles games... maybe the golden goddesses didn't actually leave the physical world after creating Hyrule, but rather just flew across the ocean and did it all over again in Holodrum and Labrynna and then incarnated themselves as the Oracles to have fun with mortals and that THIS is why the Oracles games begin with Link while Hyrule is already at peace after his previous adventure being called by the Triforce itself to go on an adventure in a foreign land...
@@Aoenias that makes a lot of sense
In reference to the Tetraforce theory, there’s also four goddesses in Hyrule: Faron, Farore, Nayru, and Hylia. The Four Sword split Link into four. Four elements. Four main races on the outskirts of Hyrule. Even the Fierce Deity has an upside down piece of the triforce on his breastplate
Doesn't the Fierce Deity only exist in Termina? So any markings on him doesn't affect Hyrule.
@@CosmicGoku529technically termina was in Hyrule
@@friendlyauthor7435from what I know that is completely wrong and termina is like a parralel to Hyrule but if I'm wrongn please explain
what about din? faron was just an incarnation of farore i believe
@@derpmonlvl7079 You are right. Termina is it's own thing with its own gods and everything.
I love the idea that the hole inside the Triforce is a fourth dark piece. And that a god created chaos before the other three came down and enclosed it.
But in reality I think Nintendo just did a hard restart of the whole series with breath of the wild them tears of the Kingdom, which doesn’t make my heart happy.
Actually I heard of a theory that totk and botw is actually a parallel timeline. Where this parallel universe still has similar events that plays out in its own timeline. Kind of like a canon event from Spider-Man across the spiderverse. This is my own personal head canon and feels better to me than just admitting that they’re doing a hard reset 🥲
@drekagaming
That's the only way to force the new canon into the existing canon: just kind of shove it in there 😂
Yeah, honestly, these two games are just a reboot.
Im a big believer in placing BOTW and TOTK in their own timeline since there is a timeline split in Skyward Sword that nobody really talks about that they would fit really well into.
Skyward Sword does effectively seem to be the one game that BotW and TotK never contradict in their lore.
And it is worth noting that SS was the last 3D Zelda before BotW, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's more or less a direct sequel.
Also, rewatching a botw video, it seems their gerudo noticed that no more male gerudos were ever born after the demon king, that from the champion book before totk came out.
In this case this SS timeline split makes even more sense, as only one Ganondorf ever existed, so the ocarina one would be in a different timeline as suggested.
@@wesnohathas1993maybe SS is actually the sequel to BOTW/TOTK?!
is the split you are mentioning, the timeline branch that Ghirahim causes when he takes Zelda back to the past and revives Demise? If that's the split you are talking about, I would agree that botw and totk are in the original Skyward Sword timeline where there are no Link, Zelda, Ghirahim, Demise or his curse, and Groose
@@owenbyrne9850 No Groose? The absolute horror...
I like the idea more and more of BotW and TotK being a new timeline that has some of the same historical events of the original but sort of remixed. So much of TotK’s history feels almost like a retelling or reimagining of OoT to me-we see the Ganondorf bowing to the king scene (where Zelda looks on and knows that it’s a lie), Link having to travel to regional temples and awaken new incarnations of ancient sages, and the ancient Sage of Light, the one who built the Temple of Time, who hasn’t reincarnated (Rauru. He may be the king, but he battles with the sages and has light powers.) the secret stones could even be called a new version of the medallions.
I think this new timeline might even be one where the Triforce was forgotten, or hidden so well that no one remembers it.
A bit of a small spoiler, but the Triforce, the whole thing is seen on the back of Zelda's hand in TotK. She might actually have all 3 pieces which could explain why it's never really talked about in the games. Nobody even knew that the daughters of the Royal Family were inheriting it all this time.
@@GossipGeist I don’t know, I don’t think having a Triforce mark on your hand has to mean you have the Triforce. Link has the full, three piece mark in Skyward Sword, because he’s worthy to use the Triforce, not only when he actually uses it
@@literallywhy6162Having the mark of the Triforce on your hand usually means you have it like with Hilda and Yuuga Ganon and everywhere else in the series.
Plus it could be that he awakens the Triforce after each Secret Realm he does like how Twilight Princess Link awakened his piece once he entered into the Twilight zones.
@@GossipGeistSonia has it tattooed on her in at least one place. So it’s not entirely forgotten, as it appears long before the royal crest really appears. And Twilight princess just showed the whole Triforce on the wielder’s hand, not the specific part iirc
@TheCBoysDotCom
The royal crest of Hyrule is the Triforce and the Crimson Loftwing, due to the Hylians being the "bird folk" and the Goddess Hylia's chosen people, and the existence of the Triforce and the Sacred Realm being a secret kept and passed down through the Royal Family, the princess of which is the reincarnation of the Goddess Hylia in human form.
It's all tied together with a neat little bow on top - the lore all made sense up until Skyward Sword, and it worked retroactively to tie it all together even more. BotW and TotK don't function as seamlessly, neither with the old lore nor even really with each other. The real-world explanation is that they're just anthology games that mention old names and lore in passing to serve as Easter eggs, and the Zonai not only weren't planned but didn't even exist in BotW - Zonai was just the name of one of about a dozen sets of ruins with the same architecture, but people on the internet speculated (wildly) until Nintendo threw them in in place of the "wild people of Faron" that they had introduced in BotW; thus simultaneously erasing the Wild people and killing all sorts of lore that could have been built.
First real "you lost me" point, the bargainer statues needing to be connected to a dark god to speak through the hylia statues has no backing. It would be slightly more acceptable saying they were connected to hylia herself since there's at least the evidence that one of them can speak through her statue.
The entire Demise's origin theory section relies on that dark god assertion which still has no evidence to stand on and twists it into another 'the villain was the good guy all along'.
There is no need for the timeline to have converged, it would only be necessary for a a convergence based theory. For zelda to get back to tears of the koroks it would just be a matter of the timeline that the game takes place in occuring as usual. If Totk wasn't just a reboot of the entire series anyway.
Why would they need to hijack a Goddess Statue if they were connected to Hylia? If that were the case, then the Goddess Statue, without being taken over, could have just told us about the predicament that the Bargainer Statue was in and ask us to help him. They're definitely not directly connected to the same diety if they're having to take control over the opposing sides statues.
@GossipGeist How could they hijack a goddess statue if they weren't connected to Hylia?
We know of 4 goddesses currently in the Zelda universe. If any being of sufficient strength like you implied could take over the statue, then why do the 3 golden goddesses not interact that way?
Also how do you arive to the conclusion Demise is not a reflection of Hylia? It was said in skyward sword he was the source of all monsters. His blade seeming to be an inverted version of the master sword does not prove he was the "chosen warrior" we know Hylia and her incarnations can wield the master sword. It is unknown if she can remove the blade from it's pedestal but we know from TOTK that the blade is still connected to her bloodline.
Interesting... there has been a prominent theme of fours in botw/totk, after all.
Perhaps the god of darkness was responsible for Ganondorf's escape from imprisonment in Twilight Princess? Perhaps it was more deliberate than just some "divine prank".
Caught your last TOTK video and I was surprised you were a relatively small channel. The audio quality, editing and content are all definitely up to par, big fan of how well put together everything is. And you're good at talking, theorizing and adding a little personality into things. Keep at it, man. I think you're definitely headed somewhere.
Phenomenal editing. I feel like I'm seeing the birth of a channel with 1 million subscribers - that brief point in time before it gets noticed and takes off. Hopefully the CZcams algorithm is kind to you, since you deserve it.
It's you! Thank you for your kind words! I kneel. 👑
@@GossipGeistYou tried to solve 3 theories in the Zelda franchise in 17 minutes, and have 3.67K subs as of now.
If the algorithm doesn't like you, then
A) CZcams needs a better algorithm
B) Someone (**wink wink**) may try to hire a hacker to get the algorithm to show you to more people
Agreed
I was here
YanDev finish your goddamn game and start liking adults ‼️‼️‼️‼️
I watched this video while drinking out of a chalice
That's... actually really interesting.
Nintendo: “THERE IS NO HIDDEN 4TH PIECE!”
Also Nintendo: “In Twilight Princess there are 4 Light Beasts and 3 of them are named after the Golden Goddesses.”
Except if Ordona (the light beast that doesn't reference one of the three goddesses) is supposed to be the stand in for this theoretical evil god, why is he a spirit of the light in the first place? He should be on the side of the Twilight and he's clearly not.
Ordona is not the only time in the Zelda series that a fourth major element is introduced alongside the three goddess: in Majora's Mask a time goddess is mentioned and there are the Four Links for the Four Sword games and minish cap. My guess? Whenever said fourth element is present is supposed to be a stand in for Hylia which is a goddess after all.
@@Xfushion2 who said Ordona is supposed to be evil? I’m going back to the removed triangle thing.
The Light Spirits aren't the Golden Goddesses - just their namesake. "Eldin" is named after Din; "Faron" after Farore; "Lanayru" after Nayru - "Ordona" is the only one that isn't named after one of the goddesses. These Light Spirits look over the regions named after them: Ordon, Faron, Eldin, and Lanayru. They're what's often referred to in mythology and fantasy as "lesser gods"; they work in service to the "higher gods".
You are a genius theorist and I LOVE it!!!
I thought everyone just forgot about the Tetra Force theory. I think this does make a lot of sense, especially when looking at the series through a Japanese cultural lense.
Keep up the great work! I really like your theories and how to tend to ignore any information not in the games themselves.
I would imagine that the Japanese audience has a deeper understanding of Zelda than we do in the West.
i’m really liking your content, i love the idea that there is some type of metaphorical tetra force and anti hylia, but one think i wondered was maybe instead of hylia moving the statue instead it was actually zelda? i mean when she moved into the hateno village house it was directly in front of her… perhaps she took some initiative and moved it herself while the statue mistook her for hylia since she technically is
Interesting... I like this theory
Although Zelda isn't Hylia this time round, she's descended from her
@@that_nerdy_hylian still there is correlation between the two, maybe enough for her to be mistook
@@constant249 just an idea man... not trying to convince anyone
The most interesting part about the tetraforce theory, in my opinion, is that it’s the only fan theory that Nintendo has not only acknowledged, but outright refuted
I absolutely love this! Your theory makes so much sense and brings together so many questions I’ve had for the longest time. Unless something major changes, to me this is basically canon.
The Imprisoning War in TOTK is almost certainly the second “imprisoning war”. I still think you could say the timeline is convergent, mostly because it’s an interesting reading of the story, but also because the previous Links’ armors are now canon in TOTK. Just say the goddesses did it or something.
This was more lore and education than I have EVER hoped to receive. Whether it was about the goddess Hylia, the horned statue, the triforce/tetraforce, what the 3 dragons of hyrule did during its creation, and demise and the dark god.
This whole video was a BLAST! Thanks
the bargainer statue being underneath the temple of time in the sky, there's a sidequest that when you finish, a construct tell you it actually used to be grounded
Definitely gave me more to think about. I can tell this is going to be a video I watch over and over so that I can think about each of your theories one or two at a time.
I don’t know about the theory regarding the bargainer, their dialogue seems to imply they’re neutral, while the concept behind and the dialogue with the horned statue seems to imply that they’re to some degree more evil, and the Zelda series seems to quite often have a distinction between darkness as an element of nature and as it relates to evil. For example, a lot of games have darkness represented with the sages while also having it represented by the antagonist
I've subscribed to that precise idea as a personal philosophy for a long time. There's the natural "darkness" that is of night and shadow. It "moves aside" for light, and gives the contrast which makes light observable at all. It encompasses concepts such as void and emptiness - space, the substrate of existence, through which everything else - light included - moves. And then on the other hand you have what's really just better called evil, but is frequently called "darkness" too because we have such a paucity of useful descriptive words that make distinctions like this in English. It seeks to blot out light, not to serve it. At any rate, it's thrilling to me to see these ideas advance on a large scale thanks to popular accessible works like the Zelda series.
In the kakiriko mine the yiga notebook (I think) states that one of the statues took a yiga members soul despite the e member not dying. Considering the Yiga and demon king are unofficial teammates this doesn’t make sense.
What doesn’t make sense is that link is on Zelda’s side but also on the bargainer statues sides who in this vid are seen to be evil as well as the horned statue.
I'm so glad someone else noticed that the three Goddesses "descended upon the chaos that was Hyrule", meaning Hyrule had to have existed beforehand. Din absolutely sealed the Depths beneath the Surface, which is why demons came up through fissures in the earth before Skyward Sword.
The problem with that theory is all the Zonai stuff in the depths. That stuff was originally on the surface as said so byt he Constructs themselves. So that means that the Depths in TOTK was originally the surface, but the goddesses would have created the lands prior to Zonai which means that in order for your theory to be true, there would have to be an entirely different layer of Depths even further below the one we see in TOTK and I just don't see any real evidence for that
@@Wertologistyes the forges ect but they started the mines after discovering the depths and I think you might be confusing the sky islands with the depths
Your theories actually make sense and it was interesting to hear, nice!
I love hearing your voice in these analysis videos! Great quality content too, and no dumb gimmicks. Great job!
the idea of these statues (even hylia's) moving around when no one is looking at them just like weeping angels from doctor who is pretty creepy
they might as well make a mimic enemy out of it
Zelda does need a mimic type enemy. Those treasure chest octoroks in BotW/TotK don't really do the whole mimic thing very well.
@@GossipGeist the evil tress come real close to it, but so far the fake doors from oot's fire temple are the most mimic esque they ever did
@GenMars I guess there's sort of the Yiga wearing disguises too. One of them even disguises as Zelda on the Great Plateau. Still not as good as it could be though.
@@GossipGeist true, true
This is one of the most well made and creepy intro on all of ZeldaTube. Good job man🔥
This is my first vid of this channel, and this was such an amazing vid to introduce me to an amazing creator❤
I haven't watched a lot of your videos (admittedly just the draconification one before this), but I'm SO glad someone has talked about the converging timeline theory. I was already solidly in the boat after going through BOTW twice, but TOTK really sealed the deal, mainly with the reference armor sets. Previously amiibo-locked, you could find ALL of them in the depths (except for the Link's Awakening armor set, which you DO find on the surface, which is interesting in and of itself.) Since they're now part of the base game as opposed to fun little add-ons (they still are, but you can now get them BOTH ways), same with the BOTW DLC additions (Majora's Mask, Zant's Helm, and Midna's Helmet), it sort of confirms in and of itself the timeline having to converge at some point. The only thing I would disagree with is the time and place Zelda gets sent back in time to: with Rauru's Hyrule, there are still the existence of the Rito, who don't exist until the Adult Timeline, meaning sometime after the timeline convergence, but before the Great Calamity of 10,000 years before BOTW/TOTK. Overall, though, a fantastic, FANTASTIC video and I look forward to watching more of your content!
I loved your theories, but I’m already subscribed, so I had to leave a comment. The one about the tetraforce and Demise being the knight gave chills. And that ‘not a curse’ part is what I felt, too. Of course light can’t exist without darkness. But this was great!
Glad to hear you enjoyed the video! It was an absolute blast to edit this one.
the best theory I've heard so far about the horned god and the bargainers, makes me think they might not be part of the tetra force, but everyone seems to forget Lorule is a thing and had it's own triforce restored, the upside down triforce I've always wondered if it has it's own gods attached to each piece, or was Lorule a product of the three standard goddesses creation. What if the bargainers and the horned god are just two of the lorulean gods, that when their world finally did fall had to reach into Hyrule for worship.
On that note, the tetra force may be real and the two triforces might actually intersect with both top pieces resting in the others center.
Yes this!!! I've been theorizing that the Depths are Lorule for a while now!
This was a very well-thought-out and impressive theory!! And the production value in the video is so high, I really love the editing style and the shots of you talking behind the journal were really amusing. Thank you for working so hard to make such high quality content! I hope it gets the attention and respect it deserves!
Dude your video style is lovely the quality is pleasant excited for more!
It makes sense that demise is the chosen hero of darkness, if you consider the final boss fight of the demon king in totk having similar abilities to link. It was link fighting dark link
Two warriors able to flurry rush each other. Makes sense. It was a really cool fight.
At 9:04 there’s literally a 4th circle in the underworld on the mural! Totally thought that was why you were showing the mural at first.
same
There's also a parallel between this and the Four Sword in Minish cap too. The sword is restored by first receiving the Earth element, and then the elements often associated with the other Goddesses (since in OOT the magic powers you receive are associate with 2 of those elements, but with Nayru's power being called Nayru's love instead of something associated with water). So if the God or Goddess of Chaos does exist they are likely associated with the color purple.
And purple is usually associated with Shadow, rather than Earth in Zelda games (which would make sense if the Goddess of Darkness/Shadow/Chaos was the Goddess that made the planet or Earth, and the other Goddesses just overwrote it). Also the Shadow Medallion in OOT features an upside down purple triangle, surrounded by 3 circles while the Light Medallion features 3 gold triangles facing in more of an upward direction also with 3 circles, like the pattern shown in this video that was believed to be associated with the 3 eyes the Zonai have, or the 3 Goddesses.
And then Lorule, a parrallel version of Hyrule, where the power of the Goddesses was fading away because the Triforce was destroyed, all the parallel versions of characters that usually have yellow hair, the color of Hylia's hair as well as the triforce, have purple hair instead. Like the yellow color of the Light Medallion and the purple color of the Shadow Medallion. Also the power of the goddesses being lost drove the land into chaos and made all plants start to die, like how it was before they used their powers to form the lands of Hyrule.
Great video. I especially like your first two theories. I admit that when you started by talking about the Tetraforce I was going to turn the video off lol. But your thoughts actually line up with a lot of mine, and you brought up some things I hadn't thought of before.
This is good! I think if the Zelda team says there's no fourth piece, then there probably isn't. BUT I like your theory about it because instead of saying there's another piece, it's just saying that the fourth piece is the negative space in the middle. It works perfectly on a thematic level. The Demise's origin part was really cool too, "the sword that seals the light" just sounds metal, I love it!
Long paragraph about the timeline ahead, short attention spans beware:
I definitely buy into the timeline convergence theory. I've heard people say Nintendo rebooted the series or whatever because there are some contradictions, but they haven't at any point in the 6 years since BOTW came out completely changed the timeline or announced that BOTW is a reboot. All they said is that BOTW takes place at the very end of the timeline and left us to "figure it out". I'm not sure which specific theory I like best tho... Like at first, I thought the founding of Hyrule mentioned in TOTK was the same one from the end of Skyward Sword, and y'know any inconsistencies could just be the result of a story being passed down for a long time. Then I also thought, maybe the past in TOTK also takes place at the end of the timeline, after every game before BOTW and this world just has an impossibly long history. This makes a little more sense to me and I personally like it because it doesn't require past games to be reinterpreted. This way BOTW and TOTK can be "separate" and it doesn't exclude previous games from discussions about the new ones
As for how the timelines actually converge, no idea. I heard one theory from Thinking At Max Volume about the possibility of a dragon break kind of thing like in Elder Scrolls where all possible timelines become equally real. I think he explains how it's possible pretty well in his video and I like it a lot, but I'll admit I had a hard time following toward the end. Definitely go check out his video if you haven't tho
I love a few of these theory pieces.
I completely agree with the existence of a dark deity to contest goddess hylia. Due to the creation of the dark master sword. And it's animating spirit Girahim.
And there has always been a source of demons, designated to be the demon realm. Or dark realm which is usually a dark mirror of Hyrule.
But I have issue of it being solely demons. Because of a link between worlds where we see lowrule. Filled with regular people trying to live their lives.
They even had an entire inverted triforce themselves. And Princess Hilda still seemed good. Not like a dark dimension evil Zelda.
But that hitches on Lowrule, and the dark world/demon dimension being not the same mirrored reflection of Hyrule.
In D&d the primary material plane has 2 mirror reflections. 1 being the feywild, and 2 being the shadowfel.
What I'm thinking is that yes your theory that the golden goddess trio building an entire world on top of the primordial/demon filled world is interesting. But I think that there are multiple shadow versions of Hyrule. Each with their own casting light.
I refute your idea of a real tetra force. As I always saw the 4th triangle under the shield to represent Goddess Hylia herself.
The 3 golden goddesses ascended to a higher plane of existence. While Hylia stayed bound in flesh to the people. (Even though you are right, that a version of Hylia's goddess power still acts independent of Zelda in the form of the Hylia statues.
I really enjoyed this video. Keep up the great work my brother.
"Let's just put a bargainer statue exactly underneath the temple of time and fans will come up with a logical explanation."
Another good video. I remember the first time people really started talking about the convergence theory was after Mat Pat (yes game theory) made a video. It was a very flawed video but also quite on spot. He thought that the game Hyrule Warriors (the Wii U one) suggested that a convergence of timelines is on its way. I played the game and was kinda obsessed with it as some point and ngl while it seems to not be canon, it… kinda is? Its similar to what’s happening with FNAF, where there are now books that are telling a story completely separate from FNAF and the original game characters but hint to whats going on in the actual game lore.
I’m bringing this up because the convergence theory might connect your previous theory about light and dark. The whole game of Hyrule warriors is about a battle between light and dark!!! There are two non canon characters representing light and dark, the two are against one another but at last they’re sisters.
I might be wrong about this, its been about a decade that I haven’t played that game but I think we see more than 3 triforces in the game too…. Tbh it was a good lore-packed game. There are lots of references and stuff thats fun to revisit before TOTK and after BOTW (stuff like textures, weapons, characters and places that we see being hinted to in TOTK a lot)
I’m fairly certain this game really sparked a lot about the convergence theory specially since the literal level selection of the game is a time lime fork that converges.
0😊wL
another channel worth subscribing too! keep this kind of content, lad. i love it!
Thank you!
All you need is like a solid headband or a hair band, see how it looks pushed back but otherwise just absolutely S tier!
I personally think that The Horned Statue is the god of evil, like Jerrin says outside of the hole, and The Bargainer Statues were a past race of Demi gods that were like Hades, guiding them through the afterlife.
Demi-gods, you say…
If the Zonai were on the level of gods, maybe these beings were equal to the Zonai
Also, you have to wonder what that other race down there was that’s seen in statues
They look like evolved Mogma. The Miner's outfit is themed after them, which is the best clue we get about them other than their statues.
@@GossipGeist do you mean depths armor?
@@HeatherCosby no, the depths Armour more resembles the Barginer, the mining set is different
@@GossipGeist Yeah, my first thought too, especially since they brought back Rito so it makes sense if they brought back another tribe from the past
Imagine if the timelines didn’t converge and in two other timelines the light dragon is just there, chilling in the raised island in the sky waiting for a none existant link to be brought to that safe place and later pull out the restored mastersword *In the other timelines botw isn’t in (if the timeline didn’t converge) we can assume the mastersword didn’t break else Zelda would be receiving 3 masterswords to heal
Oh god now I just imagine Zelda getting three broken master sword at the same time and being like: wtf
…
wait if that was the case wouldn’t Zelda just come back in each timelines with three mastersword. That means that Zelda would have found a duplication glitch
Coming together of the Triforce to seal chaos makes perfect sense. Every time we see the Triforce shattered chaos, ensues in essence, unleashing chaos once again.
The tetra force stuff was so convincing it’s probably going to be my new head cannon now whether I like it or not. Really good video dudes
How much would it cost to do the evil toby macquire dance....
Usually for a mere 20 Rupees, but today, you get a free pass.
Yeah, knowing how absolutely awful and cruel the goddesses are already portrayed as (the cycle of damnation they keep doing throughout all the games because of demises curse, the flooding of hyrule, the banishing of the twili, other things) them coming in and ruining their sister's chaotic demon world and kicking her out seems pretty on brand. And hylia doing nothing to stop them.
It’s incredible that this is the first video I’ve watched linking the apparent lack of a Tetraforce to the Japanese superstition surrounding the number 4 when, in hindsight, you’d think that it’d be one of the easier Zelda theories to come up with.
Amazing presentation! Great production values too. Subbed.
Anyone else notice how the backs of the Bargainer Statues looks like the face of a boar?? czcams.com/video/eJ_GmwhAxTk/video.html
Yep, and the only one that allows you to see this is the Cliff Bargainer Statue. Arguably the oldest and most major one of them all, being directly under the Mother Goddess Statue from Skyward Sword.
Smashing together the timelines never sat well with me at all. There's no event I can think of that could make it so all the continuities converging make any sense.
That said, making the original Hyrule Warriors canon to the Official Zelda timeline would give Breath Of The Wild a chance to explain how it knows about the events of the from parallel timelines. Throwing characters and locations from the Era of Twilight and the Era of the Sky etc. into a single game just long enough for their battles to become legends passed through the royal family lines up with Breath Zelda's speech if you stick Breath of the Wild some after the events of Hyrule Warriors. I know, I don't like it either.
Throwing Zelda back to the "founding of Hyrule" could mean the founding of *her* Hyrule. For all we know the cataclysmic events of the Wind Waker are just one of several ends to kingdoms named "Hyrule" that have happened throughout history. There's no real need to try to squeeze Zelda past the pesky time split if it makes more sense that multiple Hyrule Kingdoms have risen and fallen ad infinitum since skyward sword and the one founded by Rauru was merely the latest one.
Man, your videos are absolutely fascinating!
On an unrelated note, you look like RE4 Leon❤
15:55 - It could be a new continuity in which all of the other games are legends.
The two new games really seem to be their own thing.
Hey, gossip
Shoutout???
Just checked out your content. You've got some clean edits, clean footage and have some real potential. I suggest structuring your videos such as scripting for your more focused content. I can tell you've got drive, so keep at it and always aim to improve something with every new video, that's what I've always done so far.
@@GossipGeist thank you 😊
The Imprisoning War only happens in the hero is defeated timeline--and the tears of the kingdom lore is all about that so Zelda travelled down that timeline
It isn't the same Imprisoning War, though. That's why I made the claim that BotW and TotK are in their own separate timeline that have unique but similar historical events.
@@GossipGeist That's quite possible, although there isn't any proof that there were different imprisoning war and that the two games were on their own timeline. (I think that they might be, just because of the Zonai who haven't appeared earlier in any game exept from BOTW.)
I'd really love for this to be the case, since it allows Nintendo to potentially remake a lot of older Zelda games but with a unique story twist to them.
It makes a lot of sense. I agree 100%. yesterday, on twitter, I replied this:
Botw is about the wilderness
Totk talks about civilization, the "kingdom"
There's room for trilogy, to talk about gods, now, and with a title that plays with it, breath, tears and... ???
I mean, there's a hook also. The depths (poor explained), the poe receiver...
I love these theories, thank you for sharing! ❤
I never thought much about the tetra force but you got me thinking it'd be really cool now. It's now my head canon.
This is an excellent video, and has absolutely gotten you a new subscriber!
Dang you went IN on this one. Well done
Convergence makes sense on a marketing level. There's no more distinction between the handheld and console anymore, so there's no more point continuing timelines that won't be in production anymore. Bringing it all together will simplify it and reduce headache going forward since this can be used to effectively hard-reboot without destroying continuity and serialise the story down one path.
Won't do much good going forward if you have to make obligatory side titles to continue with the story you're trying to make. Better to let those other timelines get the occasional reference game, like Link taking on some other side enemy in a small top down adventure.
Otherwise, it looks like they made up their minds that this is where they want to go and continue, which means they need to curb the rest of the side stories. So convergence would be a good way to do that, and Zelda taking a time skip definitely helps to effectively bootstrap a timeline into convergence with divine intervention.
I'm sad that Ghirahim is just dead. The master sword can be reforged, why not the evil one? That's my favorite character archetype, the Number Two who just wants to serve so badly that kinda seems like a love or obsession for their Number One. Now he's just gone.
He was pretty beat up by Link. I imagine damaging the spirit of the sword directly would probably do some irreversible damage. Fi being untouched and in perfect condition slumbering within the Master Sword is how the sword is able to perpetually repair itself.
Very underrated video!!😮 this was awesome
This channel needs more subscribers! Keep it up!
I just realized how desperately I want a metroidvania Zelda game. And with the art style of the 00:52 Ocarina of Time illustrations ala. Hollow Knight, Cuphead, Guilty Gear sort of hand animated style graphics. How dope would that be!?
I always figured that the Horned Statue was Chancellor Cole from Spirit Tracks. The two horns is kind of a giveaway, but Cole was also able to interact with someone's spiritual enemy, and it can be assumed that greed would be a motivator
A lot of talk about light and dark... I'm going to point something out about the light and dark abilities in the Switch games, but this contains spoilers for them both, so I'm writing this first as a disclaimer.
If we ignore the fact that the powers are called Light and Dark, and we ignore any affiliations or opinions we have with any characters, what have we seen these powers *actually* do?
The power of Light in BotW created an explosion that killed a bunch of guardians and another later that destroyed or sealed away Calamity Ganon. In Tears of the Kingdom, we see it wipe out a whole bunch of giant creatures, the molduga. We also see that this power will repair and amplify a particular sword, a tool of war used to kill or seal away.
Let's not forget the associated elements to these powers. The light _element_ is what Dazzlefruit and Mirrors hit things with. They stun creatures to make them vulnerable to attack, and if they're a certain type of creature, they kill them outright. Ancient Arrows and Light Arrows are shown to be the same, so these arrows are made from harnessed light of some sort. Ancient Arrows remove creatures hit by them entirely, either disintegrating or banishing them. If you cook Dazzlefruit, adding some light power to your food, you get 1/2 heart per fruit used and no effect. That's the bare minimum health for any cooked item that gives any at all, and the lack of any bonus is interesting. Star Fragments are also related to Light, and they can be fused to weapons to power them up, adding the ability to create blasts of Light that can kill creatures hit by them. You can cook Star Fragments as well, but they don't add much health to the created meal and add no special effect of their own.
Based entirely on how we see it used, the power of Light is associated heavily with killing and banishment.
What does the power of Darkness do? Every time the Blood Moon rises we see the power of darkness restore and revive creatures who've been killed. In Tears of the Kingdom, we see the first Blood Moon create this plethora of creatures to begin with. We see that Darkness creates Calamity Ganon over time as well (multiple times over the years). In Breath of the Wild, we see it take control of war machines and turn them against their users. We also see it create blight copies of the pilots of the biggest of these war machines as part of doing so. In Tears of the Kingdom, we see it create copies of Princess Zelda & Ganondorf. It also manifests as substances that can be toxic to touch (Malice & Gloom), one of which creates a piece of a creature (Malice creating flying stal- heads). There are weapons infused by Gloom as well, which can punish their wielder for using them against creatures by draining them of life as well. At the start of TotK we see the power of Darkness used to disarm somebody (both of their weapon and of their arm), and lift a castle into the air. Later we see it take control of a construct to use it against its creator.
As for the Darkness element, there's an item called a Dark Clump, which is a clump of pure Darkness. It does not function as a weapon (which is interesting here), but you can cook one for a bonus heart of resistance to being effected by gloom, which means that Darkness acts similar to a snake venom. You can consume it to resist the damage it can cause elsewhere. It's its own cure.
Based entirely on how we see it used, the power of Darkness is associated heavily with creating life, opposing or punishing the use of weaponry (including turning advanced weaponry back on its masters), and replicating an opponent's strength and abilities. It also does a better job of supporting survival when consumed than Light.
The only time we actually see Ganondorf kill anyone (outside of Game Overs) is with a knife that isn't a Gloom weapon. He was hidden while using that weapon, but he was also channeling Zelda's strength and (some of her) abilities at the time. She started that encounter hidden, ready to ambush him. He turned that (being hidden) against her by becoming similarly hidden himself.
Which of these powers is supposed to be the "good" one again?
That is not to say that _Ganondorf_ is good. How a power is used matters. In context, Ganondorf is consistently the aggressor and the Light power's pure destructive force has been used primarily in defense in these games... A good power can certainly be used to do evil and vice versa. It's just interesting to look at the details.
i always felt the center triangle of the Triforce represented something that had been removed, a darker force as it would be, so its really cool if the God of Chaos is real because it would also explain things like Dark Link and of course the Underworld/Deep where all the Demonic like beasts/creatures come form in the first place.
it would make sense that all three timelines would converge in a way, all of them would end up where events of BOTW and TOTK occur.
Absolutely loved this video and your theory! I when you brought up the fourth triforce below the royal insignia on the master shield it made me think what if that was meant to imply that the goddess of chaos was already there or just the idea that the goddess of chaos is separate entity to the golden goddesses and not a fourth golden goddess
The theory I like best is that Demise is from Lorule. His sword is just the Lorule version of the master sword. And Girahim is just Lorule's version of Fi.
My guy just articulated my head cannon and put it on the internet. I approve sir!
nice one. But I'm still hesitant about accepting the unified timeline theory. I would take a closer look on this later, but I think Zelda going back in time probably opened a new branch rather than going to an stablished one.
But I still like your approach to the whole light and darkness, that's something I myself considered, you did a great job of explaining it.
For anyone wondering, the opening music is from the Skyward Sword e3 2010 reveal trailer. It was also included as a cut, bonus, orchestral track on a TP OST CD, but was never officially put to use until the SS trailer.
I had a similar theory and interpretation of Demise's origin, with a huge difference: Demise isn't a chosen warrior fighting for s Dark God, HE IS The Dark God. Said by Fi "He has conquered time itself", we know also that he's the source of malice and monsters, and I believe he was angry at the goddesses for tampering his world and imposing their will. Demise made his own dark sword and servant, and a proof of him being a Dark God would be the fact that he was unstoppable until he and Hylia fought each other. Gods are immortal, but they are vulnerable to their own kind, even so Hylia couldn't defeat it, only weaken and seal him.
The reasons why SS Link defeated Demise were three:
1-The Master Sword being a direct counter and kryptonite for the Demon King.
2-Impa said that Demise would not be at his best yet despite recovering his body, because it would take him time for him to absorb Zelda's (Hylia's) soul. So Link still beat Demise when he was vulnerable.
3-The last 2 are actually the most important and go in tandem: Demise was overconfident. He did not saw himself loosing against a human, while he respected Link's courage and strength as a member of his kind, he didn't acknowledge him as a threat, nor worthy foe. He recovered his body and thought "I won", without the Goddess Hylia no one could be able to stand on his way, regardless of him not yet recovering his full power, and this made him even more vulnerable to defeat.
In other words, Link had to take advantage of all of this to defeat it in a weakened state or else it would be impossible, most likely because Demise would've recovered all his Godly power and literally be unkillable for a mortal.
Him conquering Time itself could be an analogy for besting Hylia in combat. Hylia is said to still reside at the edge of time. She's referred to as the Goddess of Light a lot but also the Goddess of Time. Good comment by the way.
I feel like the existence of the Rito during the imprisoning war kinda screws up all of the timelines. They didn't come into existence until after "Ocarina of Time's hero gets sent back" timeline. The world gets flooded with salt water and the fresh water Zora evolve into Rito to fly out and survive and exist in Wind Waker.
Well damn that would make a lot of sense and answers a lot of questions. A few thoughts:
Firstly ever think about how the mechanism for using the Triforce is essentially a bargaining of gathered power? The fourth God is the mechanism by which that bargain takes place. The 5th being Hylia who seems to either be a creation of the Goddesses, or a natural outcome of Hyrules creation. To make a reality shifting wish you need to control the fundamental powers that created Hyrule as well as the ability to shift what happens/will happen as well as be able to manipulate the souls/power that exists.
Taken as a whole you have the three golden gods of the triforce with the implied middle being the Shadow/Death God, with the Time Goddess that encircles the whole triforce. Both of the implied pieces are either creations of or resultant of the Golden Goddesses.
Like everything in Zelda is a cyclical tragedy.
The hero’s never win because they can’t ever win, because they world they are trying to save was founded upon false pretenses.
If Hyrule is essentially a prison for a Golden Goddess level entity everything kinda falls into place. Like what if the bloodmoon isn’t a moon, but the core of the planet/remnant of primordial Godsoul whose reality we stand in.
The bargainer statues seem to have been built to either recycle the souls, of the surface races, or help them escape the realm of Hyrule. Monster souls don’t need to be guided because the soul of the planet created them. Returning to the oneness is easier if that oneness exists in your reality. Souls that are unable to leave Hyrule become monsters (I.e lost souls in the lost woods become stalphos) or solidify into stone.
Rly rly cool video!!
I read a fan novel called “Forgotten Goddess” as a kid many many years ago that coincides with the 4th triforce piece theory so I am very a
excited to see where Nintendo may take this.
As someone that was really into the "dark triforce piece" theory back in the day, this was a lot of fun and seems to track pretty well!
Reused names are proving to be a common occurrence in Zelda lore that is starting to breed a lot of confusion. So basically: not the same Rauru, not the same Imprisoning War, not the same Ganondorf, heck, maybe not even the same Hyrule
I have a theory that the botw hyrule is some kind of new established hyrule
Basically SOMETHING happened that caused a new shieka order (it is said the zonai are older than the Shieka which doesn’t sound possible.) new hyrule to be established.
I really like your theory for Demise‘s origin. New headcanon unlocked
4:49 correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't hylia only reincarnate as the first zelda? Every time after we hear about zelda, we only get "the blood of the goddess hylia", not hylia herself. Therefore its possible after her reincarnation died, she just asciended back to the heavens and resumed her duties as the goddess of light.
Its interesting the detail Twilight princess also mentions where light cannot exist without darkness and also Gannondorf mentioning the history of light and shadow being written in blood after his defeat with link.
What if botw and totk are both a convergence AND a reboot.
Think of it like this, time forked and regardless of which line you follow, going back will lead you to the stem of that fork. So with zelda going back she both brought them together and created a new line.
Cool theories video. Very nicely done and presented. 😊👍
This video definitely felt like I was in some place new in the Zelda theory lore. So big and so hidden but something that could complete several lore and world-building. Just discovered you though, impressive intro. It might not even feel ‘fanny’, it’s executed horrifyingly Zelda-like. Inspired from Majora’s Mask? 😜
I have a theory. Dinraal and Naydra are the Draconified versions of Din and Nayru from the Oracle games, whilst Farosh is the person from the unreleased 3rd Oracle game
we do learn that in totk, in order for someone to become a dragon, they would have to swallow a secret stone, and since the Zonai have the knowledge of what happens when a stone is swallowed, there's standing proof that it had happened before or they wouldn't know what happens. so my personal theory, is that the reason the zonai know of such rituals is because Din, Nayru, and Farore(who have alot of supporting details that indicate they were zonai(the dragons ears, the eyes and noses too)) were the original three to swallow the stones. they might have performed the draconification ritual some time after the zonai decended(for the zonai to be able to bear witness) and also some time after they blessed the chaotic land of hyrule. they probably draconified theirselves so they could eternally watch over the land of hyrule, not knowing that they would lose all mortality once they performed the ritual.
it would also make sense for them to want to watch over hyrule since the goddesses hero was not yet prophesied prior to SS, which is more than likely when the zonai decended(right after the great war between demise and hylia), and the zonai have no records or history stating anything about a chosen hero, at least not that we're told
You know what would be cool?
If Nintendo updates every game to include a flying light dragon in the distance to show that Zelda was alive all those previous eras
8:33 didnt expect to see bully mcguire in this video