The Abandoned Timeline (Zelda Theory)
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2020
- Zelda's timeline split of Ocarina of Time has notoriously been a problematic mess for fans to explain for many, many years-- and still to this day people argue over its legitimacy and sometimes whether it should even be considered canon! I tend to believe it's all because of that one timeline split... you know, the Downfall/Fallen timeline. What if there was a way to fix it to where it all makes logical sense? Let's find out!
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Which timeline has the BEST games? Pre-split, Adult, Child, or Downfall/Abandoned?
EDIT: for those confused about the Abandoned Timeline becoming the Adult timeline in its future, that can’t be the case; if it were, games like MM and TP would either not exist or would take place in the Adult timeline. The Hero of Time was removed from the Adult Timeline by Zelda and placed in the new (Child) timeline; meaning the HoT would not awaken in the Original Timeline’s future to create the Adult timeline. If he did, that would mean the Fallen/Downfall timeline would never exist. In Zelda logic, once you go back in time, you have created a new future as is evidenced by the fact that it splits and doesn’t remain the same. Hope this helps!
Child
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.uhh hey dude i cant find website that holds the legend if zelda timeline, could ya help me with that
I'd have to say pre-split
Child
Nintendo: puts 2 seconds of thought into something
Fans: have a decades spanning debate over it
Thats kind of what I dislike about Nintendo they make these super interesting games and universes and when fans start to discuss them nintendo just say "its a game lmao"
@@collincaperton6718 Cause they really never seemed to have a specific timeline in mind, they just wanted to make games but people kept on pestering on about a timeline so they HAD to make one
@@collincaperton6718 In my opinion, there’s just not enough games to fully put the games “in order” there’s so many holes and confusing aspects in the “canon timeline”
@@AlvinaYunoa that's why I love botw it's all timelines
At least Mario 3 was confirmed to be a stage play by Miyamoto
"Time has passed in the past"
I don't think I was buckled in enough for this.
It helps if you have a 5 point harness
Well it has to, everytime you go back to do something time passes, so it's impossible to return to the time when you first pulled the sword. The time jump from past to future is reset every time you remove the sword.
Time does pass in the past, but you're playing that time. It doesn't keep moving while you're an adult the way he says it does (as far as I understood the video). You're taken back to the moment when you were going to pull the sword. If Link pulls it out at 1pm but later returns to the past and goes and does other stuff then comes back at 5pm and pulls it out, 5pm becomes the first time the sword is pulled out and the cycle of him being put to sleep and awakened 7 years later happens. The future is rewritten to reflect whatever change he made in the past. Except that if he woke up in the future at 2pm and went to beat a temple then put the sword back at 4pm, if he goes and spends more time in the past then the time he wakes up moves forward and he'll never have done the temple...and...aaagh. It gets pretty wild. If ANYthing, time moves in the future so that your future actions stay cemented and complete. Time does not move without you in the past. You always control Link when you choose to go back into the past.
I think it just sends you back to the moment you repulled the sword whenever you drop it
Every 60 seconds, a minute passes in Africa.
I love constantly overthinking Zelda’s entire timelines. Don’t you, too?
I do too. Like the time I just spent thinking about a timeline where Gannon was taking a dump and got carried away. Which scared a robin outside his window. The scared robin flew away into the timestorm, got lost and reappeared when Zelda was about to send link back in time. The sparrow flew right into Zelda and messed up her magic time flute playing which caused her to send link into the future. The timeline where old man Link comes back to a destroyed world via Gannondorf’s major evil dump. Which released darkness upon the world. During the time he was gone, Zelda tried to stop Gandiddledorf by making a clone of Link. But it failed. So now old man Link travels the wasteland with a young clone of himself. Searching for any way back to their past timeline.
|:)
Gerdy the grey :v
My brain has melted.
Guilty 🖐🏻
My theory was always that the fallen timeline was actually the original timeline, but sometime after Zelda 2, Zelda reset time back to OOT to try to fix things and give the hero of time another chance. He won this time around, resulting in the creation of the child and adult timelines.
That's my favorite one, it takes far less explanation and connects all three timelines seamlessly
Old comment I know, but if you look at a lot of Nintendo’s timelines, the Downfall timeline splits just before the triumphant timelines, which could be a stylistic choice but still
Nah maybe Link touching the triforce in aLttP undid ganondorfs actions in OOT
I had a similar thought where at some point in the fallen timeline a second chance is given. Thought this theory explains it better.
dude he literally goes back in time to meet nabooru
Link cannot both live and die
Schrodinger's cat: *allow me to introduce myself*
Only when not observed, correct? Observation forces it choose one or another. And link is definitely observed.
@@skullkid112 well, any of the zelda games can happen before we see the timeline split. But after the timeline splits, if link succeeds, then fallen timeline is *non-canonical* and does not exist. If he doesn't, then well.. the Adult/Child timelines do not exist. But we are looking at this timeline from an outside perspective; from where we are, we have NOT observed whether link is alive or dead yet. And that's why we see 3 distinct paths that for link, and although we know that they wont all happen in the future, we can tell from our perspective (not in Diegesis) that all 3 of these paths could work. Basically what I'm saying is, yes, link obviously cant live and die at the same time, but the timeline still works out because it's an if?
dunno if that works
@@azophi the problem with that its that the theory that botw is a fusion of all timelines stop making sense, and i dont have any idea of where to put it if that theory is incorrect
vayan a leer la biblia it’s not necessarily fused (though it is referred to as “unified”). It could just be inevitable and occurs three separate times at the end of each
@@santiagorodriguez6686 Well, maybe breath of the wild happens at the end of every timeline, regardless of link dies or not? Maybe it just happens to straighten itself out if you take a 10000 year nap xd
The "Abandoned" Timeline you describe has to be the Adult Timeline. Why? Song of Storms paradox. A stable information loop like that of the Song of Storms only works if you are jumping back and forth between different points of the same timeline. Otherwise, it's a spiral, not a closed loop, and would have to start somewhere. Thus, the time spent as a kid after first drawing the Master Sword and the time spent as an adult must exist within the same timeline.
That said, I have my own interpretation of where the third timeline comes from that I like to call either the Timeline Zero theory or the Ghost Trick theory. This... might get a bit complicated. And rambly. Sorry.
The timeline we're playing in throughout the game is Timeline 1, the Adult Timeline. The timeline that Zelda sends Link back to at the end of the game is Timeline 2, the Child Timeline. This timeline is created when something (in this case, Link) is sent back from the first timeline to a point where it can change the course of events. My claim, however, is that this is not the first time that something like this happened, and that the Adult Timeline is itself the result of something being sent back from a previous, unseen timeline to change the course of events. This is Timeline Zero.
Now, let's consider what changes would need to be made to the course of events in _Ocarina of Time_ for the events of _A Link to the Past_ to follow. Link needs to be defeated, and the sages need to seal Ganondorf with the full Triforce in the Sacred Realm. Ideally, these sages should all be human/Hylian, because you have their very human descendants to rescue in ALttP. ( _A Link Between Worlds_ muddles this a bit, but it came out after the faulty timeline split was codified, so I'm not considering it. If necessary, I can come up with a suitable handwave.)
Something interesting about OoT is that the Master Sword functions very differently here from in any other game. Why didn't it seal Link away in, say, _The Wind Waker_ or ALttP? Isn't Link around the same age in those games? Why _did_ it seal him away in this game?
Let's consider what would happen if it didn't. Link leaves the Temple of Time, followed by Ganondorf waltzing in (fun mental image if you take that phrase literally) and trying to claim the Triforce. It splits, because of course it does, and he walks away with the Triforce of Power, while Courage and Wisdom get sent off to Link and Zelda, respectively. Link, with his newfound sword and sudden courage boost, rushes off to gather the Sages (and Zelda) and challenges the Gerudo king to battle. This goes about as well as you'd expect. Link is killed, Ganondorf claims the other two pieces of the Triforce, and the Sages have to seal him away.
Some time later, Zelda finds a way to send information (whether it be a physical messenger or a prophetic dream or whatever) back to before Link drew the Master Sword, warning either Rauru or the Master Sword herself that Link would come to draw the sword and not be strong enough to take Ganondorf, so he should be sealed away until he is. It's not a standard function of the Master Sword; it's something set up for this one instance so that this specific Link would be able to wield it when the time came. In doing so, Zelda created a split in the timeline, with the branch she was on becoming the Downfall Timeline and the new branch becoming the Adult Timeline.
applause
Nice, I like this series of events. So basically it'd be Rauru putting Link to sleep to make sure he's stronger to face Ganon, and not the Master Sword's doing. I know he says it was the sword, but let's ignore that because this way it fits every other event.
I had the same thought that the adult timeline is a linear series of events. Time can't be moving in the past, because every time you go back there YOU are in control. When you go to the future, you're being put to sleep for 7 years and then waking up at that time. That's the only way it can work and still make sense.
I wrote a long ass comment as well detailing how the time traveling crap works and stuff too but didn't try to come up with anything to replace the way the downfall games come to be put into motion. Cheers, fellow youtube essay writer dude. We could end up making counter videos with all the stuff we wrote lol
Only the problem is link in the windwaker is old enough to wield the master sword. Since he's come of age to wear the tunic the hero of time did.
A link to e past can wield the master sword because he's gathered the 4 stones needed to wield it in that game
OMG that must have taken you like 2 hours to write
I guess Zelda is just lucky that Link was able to beat him the second time around then, because I fail to see what Link gains by being put to sleep for 7 years. It certainly wasn't training or experience, and he had the Goron Bracelet so there wasn't much he couldn't do that adult him couldn't do. If you ask me it just makes him a bigger target.
This idea of Ganon being victorious because Link vanished from that part of the timeline actually reminds me of an old episode of Darkwing Duck. When Gosalyn travels into the future, Darkwing becomes the brooding, violent Darkwarrior Duck, as a result of her vanishing from his timeline for all those years. I like this concept, as it makes sense for someone time traveling to create a cause and effect by their absence.
This is how I always saw it even before the timeline split became official. I was like “there’s a third split, the timeline Link abandons” and everyone thought I was crazy.
well cuz you are, this theory cannot work at all, its ignoring everything that happens in the fallen timeline games
@@unlostmaniac8735 it follows the time travel rules of OoT more than the official explaination
people also thought a split at all was insane before there ever was. @@unlostmaniac8735
The Fallen Timeline makes total sense IF it's the original timeline. Then it just needs a future intervention by a goddess or something to set the game events in motion by attempting to alter the outcome.
link went back in time to meet nabooru
I do have a theory about the timeline!!
There is a split in Skyward Sword even if the end of the game seems to mean there isn't because it is an incoherence.
Now that I think of it, I never talked about it in English. Sorry about eventual mistakes in the following comment, English is not my native language.
If Demise is defeated in the past, Link wouldn't have had to use the Triforce to destroy it in the present. But he did have to do it, so Demise was defeated two different times in the game, so there is two different timelines: one where Demise was sealed by the goddess Hylia for ages before Hylia is reborn as Zelda and Demise destroyed by Link with the Triforce, and one where Link from the future killed Demise after Ghirahim from the future freed him .
I really think that the fact that the game implies there is no timeline split is an incoherence, and my theory may be a bit of a fanfiction, but Hylia may have predicted a split could happen and left instructions to Impa and Fi so they make sure nobody notices the time paradox.
So here was my theory. I do hope it catches somebody's intention, and I'll wait patiently for the video!
Bruh... how did I never notice this.
Lil too complex for me..
@@themlgenius124_2 Time travel is a mess in Skyward Sword
@@traitorlord7832 Well to make it simple, two events being in contradiction can't happen in the same course of event. In Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf can't take of Hyrule after Link back from the future warns Zelda about him, but in Link's future, he did rule Hyrule during seven years. Those two scenarios are incompatible so the time travel opens two different timelines
That’s a pretty nice theory ngl
I remember someone pointing out that the Child and Adult Timelines were the result of Princess Zelda using the Triforce in the original NES game to wish for the Fallen Timeline to be undone. This resulted in the fallen Link having another chance and beating Ganon, creating the Adult Timeline. Zelda then sent him back to his childhood, thus creating the Child Timeline.
This makes much more sense than the way Nintendo wrote it
I feel like the break was because it exist in an alternate universe where everything happens essentially the opposite. Also any loose lore that could tie in just means that some things are lost to history and every game is a omage paid to "History always repeats itself"
There is a futurama episode called "The Farnsworth Parabox" to partially put what I'm saying into perspective.
Not really. If his theory is that time is still moving in the past. Then in 7 years time link will just show up again and defeat ganon lmao
How many times do you think link defeats ganon? It seems like you're reffering to ocarina of time and the fact that there is a glitch that the adult timeline could be defeated with child link with a glitch.
@@pingaspearce9403 YOURE RIGHT SO ITS THE EXACT SAME TIMELINE AND THIS VIDEO WAS USELESS :0 but it is somethin we nvr thought of rlly
Firstly, when Link pulls the master sword from the pedastal for the first time, he doesn't just get zipped ahead in time; his spirit is kept in stasis for seven years, meaning that he is still there during the abandoned timeline; he's just in stasis.
Secondly, an explanation for why when Link time travels using the master sword a new timeline isn't created (hence the doing-things-in-the-past-and-them-affecting-the-future thing): First on the itinerary for this: the subject of time passing in the past while Link is in the future... no, it doesn't. Yes, you can take an item, go to the future, and come back and the item will be gone, but that's just because the master sword only sends Link back to the time when he last pulled it/put it back. Link pulls the master sword, Ganon grabs the Triforce, Link gets sealed, future stuff happens, Link goes back to right after Ganon left with the Triforce, Link does some past stuff, goes and gets the master sword again, and gets put back to when he returned the master sword. The master sword seems to be like an anchor in the timeline for Link, because of the nature of how he uses it, but the ocarina isn't like that; the relation of the ocarina to the user doesn't matter, so there is no anchor effect, so a new timeline is created when used.
Thirdly, your logic for the abandoned timeline not becoming the adult timeline in its future (you talked about this in your comment) either doesn't make any sense, or it is just _zooming_ over my head. Link gets sent back in time, to a new timeline, by Zelda. That timeline is where the games like Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess take place, the _new_ timeline, which is known as the child timeline (just trying to keep things clear). The timeline that Link was sent _from_ is known as the adult timeline. Based on the information I provided in the first and second paragraphs (Link being in stasis and the master-sword's-method-of-time-travel's-anchoring-effect) it can be concluded that the abandoned timeline does become the adult timeline in its future, and cannot take the place of the fallen timeline (I am seriously disappointed that this is the conclusion I came to. I _seriously_ tried to make your theory work).
Man, my brain hurts now.
Also, just gonna throw this in here: since a new timeline was created when Zelda sent Link back to the past, leaving the original without him, whenever you travel back in time in Majora's Mask, you are leaving that version of Termina to be crushed by the moon, and because of how many times you have to do this in the game, you are leaving many, many, many people to die.
I have my own theory for how the abandoned timeline works. It doesn’t become the adult timeline because Ganon was defeated and there was no hero in the adult timeline , but for the abandoned timeline there was no hero and Ganon was not defeated so he would be able to take over hyrule. So Ganon would get the triforce by taking it away from Zelda and link (who was still in stasis and was not gone from the timeline) and since the sages were not awakened, the ancient sages had to seal ganon away. Which explains why the maidens are all Hylian. And then the imprisoning war takes place.
I am confused, shouldn’t the “abandoned” timeline just the events of OoT from the adult timeline perspective. Young link beating the first three dungeons, zelda flees, getting the master sword, Link’s return trips to the spirit temple, song of storms and whatever else, the 7 year time skip, and the adult adventuring. I feel like I am missing something here.
You're entirely correct. The "abandoned" timeline isn't possible because MNB doesn't understand how timelines work. The adult timeline doesn't exist from nothing, it exists in conjunction with OoT's story. Every event in OoT is the adult timeline with the exception of the ending, where Link is sent to the new "Child" timeline.
@@Its_Shio Correct! The flaw is in the assertion that adult timeline spawned from the events at the end of the line, and only the end of the line. This is impossible, since things you do in the child era carry over to the adult era in the game (planting magic beans, for instance). Thus, the "abandoned timeline" highlighted in the video is simply the first part of the adult timeline.
You can't single out the adult era like he did, because doing that would assume that the past doesn't exist in that era.
@@shinf2021 Yes. The Adult timeline is the original timeline. All of OoT takes place in the adult timeline, but Zelda sends Link back to a new child timeline. But Link warned Zelda, went to termina came back etc. Ganondorf never could have killed Link, so the downfall timeline is impossible.
@@ErenYeager-oi6hu Impossible within the events that are shown to us, yes. There are ways to explain its existence within canonical parameters, we just don't know which explanation is correct.
For instance, if someone with ill will got hold of the Ocarina after the events of OoT, they could use it to travel back in time and assist Ganon, leading to the Downfall timeline. But that's just a theory.
"MNB doesn't understand how timelines work"
BURN
You know basically we could also say that everytime we pull out the mastersword from the pedestal it create a new timeline.
Good point
Not really since all you do is go back to the point you first pulled it out and then go back to the point you put it back in the problem here is that adults zeldas timeline got cut of since its an impossible timeline because ganondorf could not be stoped because there was no hero but she was in a moment in time where he was sealed and link now in a time where he didnt even get all the stones to open the secret realm so we are left with the timeline where the door to the secret realm is open and ganondorf wins and for all this to not happen zelda would have had to send link back to the past and erasing all his memories so he would do everything again and again creating an infinite loop to keep the timeline intact.....wait where was i going with this?
Anyway if we look at it there will always be 1 timeline left behind and that is the original oot one that we start our journey in
lol. they said pull out
@@HandheldGamer1991 isn´t this the classical time paradoxon?
the one timeline you say can´t have happened actually must have happened,
not only because it´s the first but because the other timelines are created by the outcome of the first.
I don´t want this to be true, but I really think in the end it does not make sense
I've been trying to explain this in CZcams comment sections for years. You did a pretty good job explaining it and I might just reference this from now on.
One thing I'd add: every time you go back to the future in Ocarina of Time, a version of young Link is stuck in the past without the proper gear and experience to beat Ganon. So he is defeated.
Link isn't really traveling back and forth in time, because while he's in the sacred realm, he's actually just waiting until he's old enough to wield the Master Sword.
But when he travels back, he can go back and change certain things. This explains why you can plant a seed in the past to create a plant that wasn't there before in the future. But what happens to the version of history where there was no plant in the future? THAT'S the defeated timeline.
So there are actually multiple defeated / abandoned timelines. Every time you return to the past, a new one is created. (But they are all essentially the same and contain the same games).
I've always viewed it as what is essentially a "Flux Point." Ocarina of Time exists as such a pivotal moment in space time that it is able to create distinct realities the function different from the general logic of decision based reality splits (ie: decision based reality splits involving the creation of a universe for each decision per scenario).
What monumental event is capable of producing a "Flux Point." The game quite obviously tells you. It is when Ganondorf Touches the Triforce. The Shattering of the Triforce is what creates the Timeline Splits, with each Piece granting it's wielder their desired reality:
Ganondorf's is to Rule Hyrule and seize control of the full Triforce. This is the Fallen Timeline
Link's is to save Hyrule and return to his childhood. This is the Child Timeline
Zelda's is to return peace to Hyrule and banish Ganondorf's evil. This is the Adult Timeline
But the issue with each wish, is that without the full power of the Triforce, it does not come to fruition as each individual would hope.
Ganondorf may sieze full control of the Triforce, but the Gods intervene and empower the sages to seal him in the Sacred Realm.
Link may have saved Hyrule and returned to his childhood. But he lost his closest companion, and his only way to return to his friends and those he calls family (The Kokiri)
Zelda may have returned peace to Hyrule, but it is only Temporary. And as the Spirit of the Hero is gone from her timeline, Ganondorf returns uncontested to plunge Hyrule into chaos and despair.
And this is why the Timelines are as they are. Each is an incomplete wish, brought to fruition by an incomplete Triforce.
I love your explanation. It honestly makes a lot of sense as well, but fails to account for the Butterfly effect. (Something BoTW Theorists love to forget when they try to argue Convergence Theory).
Dylan oooh I love that! I never thought about the possibility that the timeline split was caused by the triforce split, but it makes sense. Three pieces, three timelines!
So, what if there was a timeline where Link accidentally gets sealed away with ganondorf?
It's a shame that the fallen time line is so complicated. Tri force heroes was one of my favourite zelda games when I was younger.
phew, this makes so much more sense. after i finished the video i was super confused, because i was like "how can a whole timeline happen in 7 or years, and if they dont, then does that mean that the fallen and adult timeline are the same?? but now that you explain it the way you did, i understand. thanks.
0:51 "And what if I told you... *You're not alone.* " Me: *Looks around*
I never had a problem with the "if" timeline because alternate/parallel realities were always easy for me to accept. I do like your explanation better tho.
As do I but at that point the official "timeline" is no longer a timeline but a multiverse theory. There's also the problem that the fallen timeline isn't part of Ocarina's story. It's a what if Link fell at the last battle.
I started to not like it after BotW made both outcomes existing at the same time.
@@seretith3513 unfortunately, we aren't 4th dimensional creatures yet, so we can only theorize about the mechanics and laws of time--we can only travel into the future and it's impossible to go back in time. There's no way of knowing if any or all of our proofs are applicable and an infinite amount of timelines is more plausible than just three (kid, adult, fallen).
@@nousername191 it can still work, time is not static, eventually link will age 7 years in the current timeline, its only if you win do you create an alternative, the master sword shoots you back and forward 7 years. but its 7 years +10 days and vice versa
hyrule is still doomed regardless of the time hopping.
When Wolf Link leaves you in Breath of the Wild, a message stating that he has returned to his OWN WORLD appear. Not age or timeline, WORLD. This is messed up beyong comprehension.
Be silent you fool! we dont need anything to make the timelines more confusing as is!
Large Nose isn’t already confusing
OliRock92 hes ded so probs the land of the dead
Wait, what?
welllll.... there is a huge amount of time between botw and tp, no matter which timeline botw is in. people in our world say it's almost like it's a different world when comparing things now with things in the past. so, it could just be strange wording
I do think there's one question you've left unanswered. How did Ganondorf get sealed into the dark realm, if no one was there to free the seven sages?
The old sages. The same ones from Twilight Princess in the child timeline, where the "new" sages also haven't been discovered. They clearly look like ghosts in a way similar to Laruto, Fado or even Rauru.
To be fair I don't understand how/why it's impossible for Link to be both alive and dead in different timelines. I think if the possibility is there, then the timeline is relevant. If Link dies then yes, the other two timelines can't happen WHILE it is happening- and vice versa... Who said all timelines have to be occurring simultaneously though? One might cancel the other to work, but both timelines will still exist and be logical to each their own.
Imagine any historical figure who had a huge impact on the world and say he died before he could do the thing that made him famous. Theoretically, that timeline could still be running. Just because it requires the absence of our timeline doesn't mean it's any less true. To them, WE might even be the impossible timeline. Either way, both outcomes can exist and I think that could be the reasoning that Nintendo used for their Zelda timeline. Their timelines may just be "outcomes" and "what-ifs". The child timeline to the adult timeline may actually be their exception.
Exactly, that's Multiverse Theory right there. There's no rule that says there can't be a timeline where Link dies and a timeline we're link succeeds.
It does work, it's just that for his abandoned timeline theory to work the downfall timeline has to not have come into existence by way of the hero dying. It's flawed logic. The only real issue is that OoT can't seem to decide whether it's using linear timeline travel or split timeline travel.
@@magnawaves Yeah, that's my problem with time travel in the Zelda series. Sometimes going back to the past affects the future, and other times it makes a new timeline. It's especially confusing in Skyward Sword as well. Nintendo should just come out and give an explanation, say that maybe something like link constantly traveling through time goofed up the forces of time and caused the timelines to split when they wouldn't have otherwise.
The issue isn’t that it doesn’t work, it totally works. The issue is that if we are going to allow these three timelines to exist, then nothing matters. There’s then no point in even attempting to say there is a timeline at all, or that each game is not independent from one another. If these three timelines exist, then it could also be possible that each game is it’s own timeline. If they create a canon where only two timelines exist due to real events, not “what if” statements, then you have an intact story, but the use of “what if” statements makes that impossible. Obviously multiverse theory exists, but if that’s the case, than sequential order does not matter. Anything can happen at anytime because another universe can be made to explain away any inconsistencies. It makes for poor story telling and allows writers to be lazy. We should be demanding consistency, or, at the very least demand the entire “fallen” timeline non-canon. I’m fine with Nintendo making games based on “what if” but that doesn’t need to be canon. They can simply make the game because their consumers desire it to be, but allowing any “what if” to be canon diminishes the need for consistency and thoughtful writing.
@@yellowkarter14 I see the point you're trying to make but I disagree they aren't going off just any what if scenario and there technically might not be just 3 timelines but the 3 we know are just the important ones that the games are following so there quite possibly is more than 3 timelines it's just the others don't matter
Okay, I get where you're coming from, but the problem is... the in the future of the 'abandoned' timeline, some guy appears calling himself Link still appears, defeats Ganon and then disappears again. Because that's where Link disappeared into; that timeline's future. To use your own example, when you get the gauntlets and travel forward in time, it's recognised by characters in the future that you got the gauntlets 7 years ago as a kid. It's exactly as your graphic showed, a single timeline at that point, but Link literally jumping between the two. Hence the abandoned one is really is just adult, at least before Link re-enters the world 7 years after leaving.
As for the basic premise, why can't there be new timelines created after each death? You could argue that only Ganon is powerful enough to potentially defeat Link, therefor any deaths not due to Ganon are non-canon. Or you could just say ya, loads of timelines.
I think the same, that the "Abandoned Timeline" period is simply part of the Adult Timeline. Otherwise, we would have a timeline that is literally missing 7 years, which would kinda break the universe.
Also how do we now for sure that link actually (time travels) Forward in time considering that Rauru The sage of Light himself states that we was sealed and if he really would have time traveled he would probably not age. (But Hyrule is a mysterius place so there is probably some logical sense that too)
On the other hand, it could be said that any of those deaths lead to a different timeline, but only the death by Ganondorf grants a timeline that leads into ALttP... meaning, it's possible that Link dying from a random mob/falling to his deaths renders the Triforce of courage unreachable to Ganondorf until he dies, and the Cycle of the Hero and the Evil King stops with the Ruin of Hyrule... just not in the way we think, where Ganondorf basically transcends into a higher being with the power of the Triforce.
Well, the thing is, you're playing out a story that has already been told. Canonically, Link doesn't die from mobs or anything like that. The story is already written and you're just experiencing it for the first time. In short, the OoT Game is always going to be the story where Link defeats Ganondorf and wins. The "Hero is defeated" timeline ISN'T the story you're told through OoT.
Think chat nailed it. Hyrule gets taken over, they seal link, zelda gets away with impa for training, and whatever young link does is before ganondorf starts his takeover.
I personally never had a problem with the Timeline and the Fallen Timeline specifically, but I can see why it would bother some people
And I have to say, this was a really interesting explanation on how it could work differently. I really enjoyed this video
Yeh, never had a probs, Obviously, each Link knows what timeline he is currently in, and in the games you are Link and so you clearly know that if you are playing a link to the past, link did not succeed, but from just an outside Zelda fan's non diegetic perspective, all 3 timelines exist (schrodingers cat)!
In my opinion the Adult Timeline is the Abandoned Timeline (What if Timeline). Hero Winning results in Child Timeline and Adult Timeline. This makes no sense. It can only result in one being possible. The Child Timeline would erase any future events and cause the prevention of the Adult Timeline. Ganon Winning would make the fallen hero timeline the only other possibility.
@@speedy_brennan Unless the future timeline is a completely separate timeline to the one link came from. Otherwise like you said sending Link back erases the events of the adult timeline.
Yeah, I think that anyone that doesn't get the Fallen Timeline is overthinking it. The Defeat/Fallen Timeline is Ganondorf winning at any point. All possibilities converge and become one timeline, from the perspective of a legend, by the time A Link to the Past takes place. It's so much later in the timeline that how Link was defeated/Ganondorf was successful doesn't matter, only that he was. That's how the legend of Zelda is told, at least in that timeline =P
@@speedy_brennan Adult Timeline is what the entire game is set in. The Ocarina of Time is Link's anchor to the Adult Timeline, allowing him to stay in it when he goes back and forth through time. At the end, when the Ocarina is returned to Zelda, she sends Link back in time to before their first meeting, where Link doesn't have the Ocarina. At that point he is now in the (new)Child Timeline, Zelda is alone in the Adult Timeline with the Ocarina(the anchor). With Link's knowledge from the future, he and Zelda reveal Ganondorf's plans to the King and he is imprisoned. Ganondorf is thus defeated in both Adult and Child Timelines and they exist simultaneously and separately from the other, through the power of the Ocarina.
Just came across this video, and initially this theory seems to make sense, but after thinking about it, the timeline between is only just part of the adult timeline. Because in that timeline, later on, Link should still appear from the past to defeat Ganon, then get sent back to before, which creates the child timeline. That’s at least the only way I can work it out in my head. Definitely a clever concept though.
I never really had a problem with the timeline split, because I never really thought that all three timelines had to occur concurrently. That being said, I do like this theory and it makes it possible for them all to be all three parallel timelines. Well done
Fingers crossed for circular timeline like viking lore.
Time travel is a mess
@@geianimari65 not really time travel, more like it just keeps going on and on, just like that "if you give a mouse a cookie" children's book. In the book, it starts with "if you give a mouse a cookie..." and then it's like, "he'll want some milk" and then "he'll want to use the bathroom to clean up his milk mustache" and then eventually it ends up with him wanting a cookie again.
“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again."
Andrew Sattler ^ this is it chief
Not is imposibble only you need is see in this orden child, young and fallen
Your theory is also pointed out by Nook n' Cranny Gaming and, honestly, this is the best timeline theory for Zelda.
Its really not considering it contradicts itself and the other games.
The Timeline is a lie, don't be convinced by the fools. Granny Zelda is just telling little babby Zelda bedtime stories about fencing, fighting, torture, revenge, giants, monsters, chases, escapes, true love, miracles!
@@WoodlandDrake yeah pretty sure the timeline of games is legit. Especially when backed up by the games themselves
@@voltrainer the first 3 Zelda games never backed any timeline. Miyamoto never planned this out when he made the first 3 games.
The "official" timeline is all hastily made up and Miyamoto and Aonuma didn't know what to do with it for several years, constantly changing it. I wouldn't be surprised if Aonuma changes the timeline AGAIN within the next 2 or 3 years to include BotW.
@@gamephreak5 Yeah, but considering that these games are legends, and stated in yhe Hyrule Historia as being told by fallible men, this "Abandoned Timeline" explanation is best at making sense of these amazing games at the very least. If there is another explanation that's better at explaining the time splits I'm open to it, because at the end of the day a game is a game and for Nintendo the gameplay comes first, lore second.
Doesn't the Fallen timeline state he loses this battle with Ganon? Regardless I always thought that they meant he only dies in the fight with Ganon but not during the quest. So to me saying him dying during the quest could open up several different timelines doesn't fit because it's presumed that he lives until the Ganon fight. I think that's why they made it that way.
When you talk about time travel. It's a good thing Link never ran into himself. 😅 That definitely would change a timeline.
not the best editor? i think your edit skills are great, sure they can improve, but that is already really good edititng
Well, hes still not the best seeing as how he still can improve, best implies that the person is uncontested in the that field, he is a great editor yes, way better than I could do, but there are people who are better at editing such as the super pros in the ytp market.
I always had a theory that a timeline could exist where in after defeating Ganon and instead of being sent back in time. Thus creating the two timelines. That there could be a alternate universe where Link chooses to stay in the future. Wherein he could change events that would have created the adult era.
Well even if it might not be canon there can be certainly many possibilities. And I agree with you, I would imagine a timeline where Link never was sent back as he already was alone and didn't have a good childhood and also got the praise of being the Hero of Time!
Heard of Adult Timeline? Wind Waker then Phantom Hourglass then Spirit Tracks.
@@tamaurice6961 Yes but that is the timeline where Link is not present after going back in time. I'm talking about if he decided to stay resulting in a different timeline.
@@tamaurice6961 He literally said adult timeline, but with another possibility!
This would explain the breath of the wild timeline more than any other timeline cause all of the events In all the games can and did happen in that alternate timeline and we're now experienceing the future of this timeline some it's been 10000 years after most of that history and knowledge is gone asides from tales and the occasional hint we get in that game such as how the land has changed so drastically and once gannondorf was kept barely alive for all this time he hasn't been able to reincarnate like he's supposed to instead becoming an immortal being sometimes winning and then losing horribly after awhile till you get a kingdom and a link so tired of him not dying and being imprisoned in the master sword since this timeline it would already be imprisoning a version of him so the kingdom of hyrule just has to keep him in a state of near death constantly just so that when the version in the sword is weakend enough they can do it again but since it's taking so long for the sword to do it and it's only his soul in that timeline and not his whole being as evidence by calamity ganon coming from him and the hero of time stayed in the new version of this alternate timeline and only stabbing ganon in the head made him lobotomized with no soul but still alive he has taken on different forms coming back at times sane and others an absolute monster that other links need to deal with still causing an all new paradoxical timeline and yet no new ganondorfs being born into the gerudo or any other group but what's left behind trying to work with what it's got being malice and many a small sliver of his soul and maybe one or two memory's left from link beating him in the new timeline that's what could've led upto breath of the wild from ocarina of time
My head cannon was always that Ganondorf doesn't exist in the "abandoned" timeline because he was sealed in the sacred realm after adult like beasts him, and the sacred realm exists outside time itself.
I wonder how things would’ve gone if Link knew he couldn’t wield the master sword till he aged those seven years? I don’t think he would just go into hiding like Zelda and Impa did while the people of Hyrule suffered under Ganondorf. I think he would probably stay on the move to keep from being trapped in one place by Ganondorf’s monsters while still helping others whenever possible
I LOVE HOW WE ARE STILL MAKING UP CONSPIRACY THEORIES FROM A 20 YEARS OLD GAME, THIS IS LITERALLY WHAT I LOVE THE MOST 😭😭
Me too
MY FAVORITE ONE IS LINKS MOM BEING A TREE
@@Anths_art You watched THAT video I see lol
aw, nine more hours..
that means i'm 3 hours late.
What did I miss? ;D
Your time stamp different from every one else comments
Broockle they were on the video preview so they were waiting for the video
Perhaps the problem with the time split is that we keep viewing it as alternative timelines when they are actually adjacent realities.
Great theory video! The abandoned theory is a good theory. My way of looking at it is a bit different. The official Nintendo timeline does mess up at the what if fallen scenario. It doesn’t matter much that it’s official either if it doesn’t follow logic well.
The child era where Link returns to a point in the past to warn Zelda should be separate from the original timeline where young Link first pulls the Master Sword. The original timeline should just be abandoned, since Zelda’s powers to send adult Link back to an earlier point in time doesn’t place the Master Sword back into its pedestal. Link, or rather his soul, gets sent back, but all of his inventory as an Adult with the Master Sword included doesn’t go along with him. What Link returns to is an alternate point in the past which has not been ruled by Ganondorf, since Ganondorf hasn’t arrived in the Sacred Realm thus meaning the Sacred Realm is protected within an alternate past, but one where the Master Sword in OoT has not been pulled from its pedestal.
The abandoned timeline itself is also cut off point from the Adult era, since Ganondorf entering into the sacred realm to make his wish to rule all of Hyrule is what creates the part of the split in the timeline where Ganon gets sealed by Adult Link. So the abandoned line has no OoT Link who’s absence means he’s assumed to be “defeated”, an OoT Ganon who has been “sealed” into another realm (going by the description of the sealing of evil that took place in the intro of A Link to the Past), and a young OoT Zelda who’s escaped Ganondorf and is kept alive by the Sheikah in order to continue the dynasty of Hylia’s reincarnated heiresses.
Ganondorf created the first split in the timeline by entering into the Sacred Realm and using the Triforce *there* to create a world in which he would rule. That first time split is where young Zelda grows up to become Sheik. Link sealing himself away made the opportunity for an Adult Zelda disguised as Sheik to strategize in those 7 years on how to defeat Ganon within an alternate timeline that he had created. However, that came at the cost of abandoning the original timeline. Both young Link and young Zelda in the original timeline were too young, and not strong enough to defeat Ganondorf at that point. Ganondorf was also too cunning to be caught without their having knowledge of future events in the timeline he would create. After dealing with Ganondorf and sealing Ganon in his own timeline, Adult Zelda makes another time split by sending Link back through time to his child-self so he can properly live out his youth, while also ensuring Ganondorf’s capture and execution by the Hylian royal family. It wouldn’t be possible for Link to return to a normal life as a child through using the Master Sword, since putting the Master Sword back into its pedestal would undue Ganon’s defeat.
No.
1. It doesn't matter when in the story of OoT that link dies. As long as that link dies during his quest then the downfall timeline will exist. It even says "the hero is defeated" not "the hero is killed by Ganon".
2. The word timeline is probably not the best term to use for this because it comes with the problems of people being confused on how everything connects. It's much better to call alternative dimensions. The theory that every choice we make changes the world and events to a certain degree, and over time as the choices differ and the negative and positive consequences add up, you end up with completely different worlds. Which just happens to be the case in the Zelda universe, they are all vastly different from each other, because they are alternate dimensions, but they share certain similarities because they were spawned of the original "parent world".
3. All three of the dimensions can easily exist. Because of Zelda's decision to send him back in time which creates the alternative dimensions, it also creates more than one Link being alive. You have the original Link living in the forest as a child before the events of the game start (which I will call the secret 4th dimension. More on that later.) The 2nd version of child Link that was sent back in time after defeating Ganon has a adult. This 2nd child Link's world is where the child timeline (dimension) takes place. Now you have a major problem with the adult portion of things. The adult timeline (dimension) is the world where Link was sent back, so the events of OoT happened but didn't happen at the same time, because the hero was sent away. When you start messing with time and other worlds very little starts to make sense, but there is still some logic that can be found. So Ganon is revived in the world where Link is no longer present, and that then leads to Wind Waker, the adult "timeline". Judging from the events of the games and the Hyrule Historia's graph, not much time has passed. In Wind Waker the opening scene shows that the people believed the hero would come back and save them. It doesn't say a hero, it says "the hero". Implying that Link could easily still be alive, he's just not present because he was sent away to another "timeline". So with that in mind you have another "timeline" where Link is adult after defeating and sealing Ganon occurs. And then Ganon is revived but Link is present and even older, in this 3rd dimension this is where this Link could be defeated. Hereby creating the fallen dimension. Now all three worlds exist in a way that makes some sense, atleast when compared to "if the hero is defeated". The Hyrule Hystoria shows that Link wins and losses at the same time in order for the different worlds to exist. And so far my theory atleast to me makes some logical sense to how it could possibly happen. This is a game world of Gods, goddesses, demons, magic and time manipulation after all, so by it's very nature things are a little weird, but that's why we love it!
4. Now to finally address the secret 4th world. The world of the original Link before things started. This is where things get really crazy. You now have a Link with no duty to fulfill and a world with no villain present because he's either dead, sealed away, or Ganondorf's existence was deleted. This is the true abandoned world, the original world. No hero with a duty, no villain with a evil master plan, no sacred princess with the sealing power, and no Triforce. It was all ripped from this world and given to the others. This world is truly abandoned, it's been basically frozen and locked away with everything stolen from it. But time still passes, but the world is a empty vessel. They all exist in the other worlds now.
5. Now you may be asking what's the point of the world and how does everything fit. Well with BotW there are elements of each world in it that shouldn't exist because they happened in the "timelines". The way I see it is the worlds slammed back together at some point and that's how those things exist in BotW. A timeline merge. Time or alternate worlds that are created by someone playing with forces they shouldn't are unnatural. You could see everything including time and the fabric of reality and a living organism. There needs to be balance. The separate timelines or dimensions as I call them are a result of the original breaking into multiple pieces, and if you view time or reality as a living thing, then it needs to be fixed. The Zelda universe must heal itself in order to move on and grow. So BotW happens after the timelines are healed and joined back into the original world or original timeline as you may call it. Turning that 4th abandoned timeline into the renewed timeline. That's how elements from each timeline exist, and it makes complete sense lore wise and gameplay wise for Nintendo. They can honor the past games and bring new elements and ideas to the Zelda series without being burdened by the previously established "timeline".
6. This is just my theory on things. Feel free to tell me how wrong I am, or share your thoughts and opinions too.
In the end this is all subject to change based of future installments in the series that Nintendo brings and makes new things cannon. All of our theories could be completely wrong and idiotic 10 years from now. But that's what makes this so much fun. Coming up with wacky ideas and sharing them with people that love this franchise as much as we do. Don't ever forget that guys.
Cheers everyone!
I actually really like this theory, and the thought of a completely abandoned world ending up being the funnel for the timelines is really interesting.
This should be a video all on its own.. SPREAD THE THEORY
So if you don't mind, I think I have someone who can back up your theory. MatPat from Game Theory
czcams.com/video/W2DMiZ1e574/video.html
here is the Link pun intended 😁
The "timelines" coming together is similar to the TV show fringe (paranormal crime fighting division of the FBI with some wacky alternate worlds colliding stuff, only watched season 1 so far), and would make sense gameplay wise. Maybe even a game where we see this proposed collision happen, creating a new hyrule, the one that BOTW takes place in
@@ranaoblivious2122 hyrule warriors doesnt fucking count
Honestly half of me thinks you're insane, half of me is insane.
😂
I think the reason why the timeline split works is simple, it doesn't matter when Link dies, child or adult, it's that if he did die. It doesn't have to be solely when he's an adult because Ganondorf's plan would come to fruition regardless of when he dies. The only real thing that matters is if Link opens the door to the sacred realm or not, allowing Ganondorf to obtain the triforce of power. The rest lines up nicely.
Yeah but there are weird people who say “any link could die at any time in any game!” but that’s not the point. Link winning is canonical to the timeline in other games. In this one for the sake of story there is three branches.
You are right my g 👊
As a software dev, I'd like to introduce you to the elseif statement. Yes you can have a 3 way branch. 3 branches make sense, youre idea doesn't. The original timeline is becomes the Adult timeline, while the fallen timeline is the inevitable outcome if link doesn't defeat Ganondorf regardless of when, all events lead towards the same outcome.
Link is not "gone" from the timeline. He's sleeping in a chamber.
No he's got it spelled out for that. Yes he's sleeping in the chamber for 7 years, but when he puts the sword back, he goes back to the last moment he pulled the sword out. If zelda sends you back to the beginning before everything, then adult link never goes back to that in between state, leaving it heroless.
Boris Rupe paradox. She literally doesn’t send you back before you pull the sword. We are seen putting the sword back after she sends you back. Meaning..... drum roll. The door of time was already opened. Meaning the events of the child portion indeed took place.
@@mattlawrence6077 except Zelda is back in the courtyard meaning Link is back before pulling the sword.
@@KitsunetheWolfdog oh wait thats actually a really wierd point... Matt's right in his statement but so are you. So wtf? How can the door of time be open for link to put the sword back, and still find Zelda in the courtyard, when you can't OPEN the door until AFTER she's thrown you the Ocrina while getting kidnapped.
Thats pretty inconsistent there Sakurai.
Ah I get it the manga at the end of the hyrule historia book
The way I've always thought of the timeline split from ocarina of Time is a pair of if/else statements, something along these lines: if link equals dead, return fallen timeline, Else, continue. If link equals adult, return adult timeline, else, return child timeline.
I don't think this exactly works better, because the "abandoned" timeline should still be just the adult timeline based on this. But I do think this is still a BETTER explanation for the third timeline rather than just "Link dies".
I think the best theory on this is still the theory someone made on how the golden goddesses split the timeline into three (I don't remember the whole theory off the top of my head).
The Fallen Timeline is impossible!
Not really, We see Link at the beginning of the game dreaming of himself getting killed by Ganondorf.
What if that dream wasn't a dream?
Link has just slept during 7 years, he hasn't time travelled so this explanation is not realy possible. Thus what you call the Abandoned Timeline is actually the Adult Timeline.
If you want to find a game where some new Timelines are really abandoned, there is Majora's Mask : a lot of Timelines are just Termina being destroyed by the moon and could be a devasted world without any hero (until A Link to the Past). But this time, we don't really know if Majora's Mask really took place (Hyrule encyclopedia)...
Maybe we'll know the answer to this question in a futur game, after all, the official Timeline has already been modified a lot of times and is doomed to change again.
I don' know if I'm understandable because english is not my native language and I really enjoyed the video :D
I seen some theories where people ask what happened to Termina in the adult timeline, since the Mask salesman probably never went to the woods and got the mask stolen. One theory stated that PH takes place in a flooded Termina.
Your English is good and you made better grammar than some native English speakers.
@@RobbWes Thank you, I'm glad to see it :)
@@arcticdino1650 I've never thought about it and this is a really good idea :D
Fraise this might help czcams.com/video/nffFcfCNGYQ/video.html
Great theory.
I have always argued that there is technically there is another time like I call “Time of The Hero” where Link was not sent back at the end of Ocarina 🤷♀️ I always thought it would be really cool to have a future incarnation of Link and Zelda rejoining the timelines and undoing the split. I’m not a creative genius so not sure all the “ins and outs” but as a big picture could be interesting...
I’ve been watching some other timeline theory videos, and yours makes the most sense. I’d seen it first, and came back a few times already. This is the most logical reason for the timeline split.
The planned Sheik game by Retro Studios was likely going to cover the non-canonicity of the fallen timeline, I think. My guess is that the plan was for the Sheik we see in OoT to _not_ be from the adult timeline, but actually from the _fallen_ timeline, come back in time after Link's (inevitable) death to ensure his success in the adult timeline. That way they could canonize the fallen timeline within the whole time travel complex, since they could actually explore Link's death with Sheik as the protagonist.
That would have been a badass game
I always thought the fallen timeline as an "if" timeline where if Link dies or otherwise fails at any point of his journey, and the end results are always the same to the point where they're basically the same timeline. Which still fits in the abandoned timeline.
Wait. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that time he's putting as the abandoned timeline just be a period where link would be asleep for 7 years in the adult timeline? The adult timeline would be very much what we played before the last few ending scenes. Link would be a child, sleep for seven years, wake up, defeat ganon, then essentially "disappear" out of that timeline for those that live in it. Young link still existed in the adult timeline.
I'm a little confused why Link falling in battle can't just be taken as an alternate timeline that was parallel up until that point... It never really confused me, beyond the initial surprise that they considered a world where Link fails, so I'm surprised to see people take issue with it
But wouldn’t the “abandoned timeline” just merge with the adult timeline after 7 years?
That is what I was thinking, cuz those events in the past effect the adult timeline and if you existed on that timeline in the past then the events of the adult timeline would come to pass.
Not if you use Zelda's branching timeline system. Basically, when somebody leaves a timeline, they can't return to it. It splits in two. Every decision creates, basically, two separate, alternate universes.
That's what I thought. It doesn't even have to "merge," it's the same damn timeline! If you plant sprouts in that timeline, they're pads in the future. Things you do in that timeline affect the future, because it's the same timeline!
I don't think so. Sorry if I don't sound clear, but although the "abandoned timeline" also didn't have a hero like the adult timeline, the difference is that the abandoned one didn't have a hero to defeat ganondorf in any point, while in the adult timiline link did defeat him but was sent back. So ganondorf had all the freedom he wanted because of the hero's absence.
I don't know if It's clear but that is just what I think.
Yeah that part confused me also. The only way I can see the abandoned timeline existing is if when child Link originally goes forward in time 7 years it actually creates a new timeline rather than remaining in the same one. Like if he was somehow able to stay in his original timeline and also go to the one 7 years in the future the two Links wouldn't meet because they are not the same timeline. That doesn't really make sense to me, but I believe that's the premise of the abandoned timeline...
So yeah, the Fallen Timeline is just an Alternate Universe spawning from that particular moment in OoT. The only one (of endless possibilities) explored in the franchise. So calling it a timeline is an understatement.
The entire timeline is the child timeline and a split paradox is formed when the Adult timeline is born. I’m pretty sure the whole point of the timelines is that all 3 are what if scenarios where only one can exist at a time but all 3 can exist equally, then BotW follows from a point where the current Hyrule is now the same cannon to all 3 potential timelines. As in, no matter which of the 3 is real BotW still always happens when it happens. The timelines are then Schrödinger’s timelines, they all exist but if you open the box only one can exist. Nintendo will of course never open the box.
This is exactly how I've thought of the fallen timeline and I'm glad to finally see that someone else thinks of it this way too. It keeps everything exactly the way it should be. Plus, if you listen to the beginning opener of WW then you see that they explain how Ganon escaped the seal and the hero wasn't there to save them, which basically aligns with the adult and child split when he was in Termina as a child.
There's no Ganon in your abandoned timeline. He's still just ganondorf.
It's plausible he turns into Ganon after obtaining the Triforce.
plus the 7 wise men and the seven sages in the fallen timeline are strongly hinted at being decendants of the awakened sages from oot
Very good observation
Then why in a lttp there’s ganon
@@KiddArachnid exactly, so the abandoned timeline has a major plot hole until it can explain how he became Ganon
When nintendo adds this I will remember this day so I could tell stories to my grand children
1. Nintendo will not add this
2. Why the hell would you tell this to your grandchildren? Even if this did happen, that’s the lamest thing possible to tell your grandchildren.
@@Edgeperor you must be fun at partys
Basically this.
Timeline 1 (Fallen timeline) - The original, doomed from the start timeline where Link pulls the Master Sword, wakes up after 7 years in the future. There is no way for Link to get the Lens of Truth nor meet Nabooru in this timeline which forces him to travel back to the past creating a new timeline > Timeline 2.
Timeline 2 (Adult timeline) - Link gets the Lens of Truth and meets Nabooru, he then "waits" for 7 years to pass in this current timeline, Nabooru remembers him, Link then defeats Ganon as an Adult. Zelda then sends Link back to the past, again, creating a new timeline > Timeline 3.
Timeline 3 (Child timeline) - Link is a child again with all of the items and knowledge that he gained from both previous timelines. He goes to Zelda and they prevent Ganondorf from taking over. This leaves Timeline 1 & 2 with no more Link to save the day, and Timeline 3 leads Link to Majora's Mask.
Tbf it's a good theory, but I think that both the song of storms paradox and all the time travel in skyward sword prove that there's always been at least two timelines. Meaning the link that originally taught the windmill guy the song of storms was the one that died to Gannon, after all there has been multiple time travel devices in the Zelda series not just the master sword and ocarina of time.
Yo MNB I got a random theory that been stuck in my brain for a while.. who was the protectors of the triforce.. how about if the Zonai tribe where the guardians of the triforce of power that's why they were so unstoppable to the Hyrulians who were guardians of triforce of wisdom. So ancient hyrulians conscripted the sheika to make weapons to fight the Zonai.. but all the Zonai were doing was finding worthy opponents to reclaim the triforce of power.
Gannon saw the weakness in the hyrulians and sheika and used their war with the Zonai to attack the castle himself however the sheika guardians...the ones with the lazers were already operational.. then a Zonai chieftain or champion saw that opportunity to take out Gannon because he was a worthy opponent.. then in the aftermath of that battle the Zonai where then taken by the sheika and teleported to the research and hidden chambers to be studied because of there emence power to fight Gannon. The Zonai warriors where teleported via the ancient arrow daggers but at this time they weren't arrows. Sheika wouldn't abduct Zonai warriors.. maybe that's why their civilization were suddenly wiped out and erased from history..
Just a thought x.x I had to share, its been bugging me for weeks
Have you played Skyward Sword? I highly recommend it.
I believe that the Zonai Tribe was created from generations of twilight/ interlopers that were formed, some (or most) of which were descendants of a cult formed by Zant and Ganondorf while he was sent to the Twilight Realm.
In Twilight Princess, Zant claimed that Ganondorf could resurrect him. What if Ganondof did resurrect him before that final battle, and that is how Zant was able to live on, even after snapping Ganondorf's neck in the end ( probably giving him a little bit of life to hold onto so he could be healed. )
To back that up, the Zonai were said to have been the ones who created those structures, which have similarities to the designs created in the Twilight from the Interlopers ( Fused Shadow, Zant's Armor and shoes, and Midna's true form's hair tie, Ganondorf's Armor. Even the Spiral symbol shown on Zant's Gerudo-Twilight-Symbol )
Perhaps some Zonai were actually good people, or maybe all secretly evil, and pretended to work with the sheikah in attempt to let Ganondorf ( Zant's god ) be able to take back their once ruled place. Could explain how their technology, like the Guardians, were easily over-taken.
As for their disappearance, maybe the ones who were on Zant/ Ganondorf's side disappeared after Giving their energy to revive Ganondorf using Dark Magic that's probably came back to them thanks to Ganondorf with Zant.
As for the Triforce, We seen in twilight princess that Zelda gave Midna her power since her main body seemed to be sealed in the castle. In the end of TP after Link impales Ganondorf with the master sword, the triforce seems to disappear from Ganondorf's hand, and then Zant does the Infamous Neck Snap. My thought is that after the Triforce left Ganondorfs hands, perhaps it was transferred to Zant? That's probably why nobody really recollects the triforce after so long, and only knows of the princess's sealing power.
Either way, I can't wait for the next game!
Genius. And as a programmer, I fully endorse the logic behind this theory. Well done!
The theory is impossible because everything in OOT is the adult timeline until the end, when Zelda creates the new timeline. (The child timeline). That means the abandoned is the Adult Timeline.
I've been using and telling people this explanation for years. Thank you for explaining it cogently in a form that's easy to link. I like your other Zelda stuff that I've seen so far too, so I think this merits a patreon sub. :)
The Encyclopedia that came out in June 2018 says the timeline goes
A. Hylia And The Hero Of Time
B. The Hero Of Time Is Defeated
C. The Hero Of Time Is Triumphant Child Era and finally
D. The Hero Of Time Is Triumphant Adult Era
Also B in the timeline happens in the tower when you fight with Ganondorf first if the Hero Of Time lost his strength and died fighting Ganondorf is when B in the timeline happens
This theory does make a lot more sense to me than the official Nintendo timeline, but it still blows my mind either way that people figure these things out 😂. Also the editing part wasn't bad at all and it definitely still got the point across, so great job as always!
The triforze of courage splitted because it's vessel exited the timeline at the end of oot
I still like the Many Worlds Interpretation of the Zelda timeline using the concept of
Schrodïnger’s Cat to explain Link being dead in one universe and alive in another simultaneously, but since it is possible to beat OoT without dying, this theory allows for all three timelines to exist inevitably and canonically without asserting that the world of Zelda is necessarily a multiverse. In the same way that the real universe isn’t necessarily a multiverse, this allows for a simpler explanation and doesn’t require a larger claim about the Zelda universe. This was a particularly insightful theory - I wish Nintendo had explained it this way in the official timeline! Well done.
I still think Link is dead in Majora’s Mask though 😂😂
I really like this theory. It really makes sense and fixes things in a reasonable matter. Also if you waited a few months to release this you could have just drawn parallels to Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity in your explanation since *spoiler warning* the guardian egg time traveling is like link going back to his childhood at the end of OoT whereas the fallen timeline would be like the original events of the flashbacks we see in botw before the time traveling guardian changed everything
My interpretation was always that Link got to Zelda's castle in Ocarina of Time, she didn't recognize him, he got kicked out, went around trying to collect the spiritual stones but failed and ultimately tried to fight Ganon around seven years later and failed.
That caused the downfall timeline, but then the sleeping Zelda that you save at the end of Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link sends a prophecy back in time to the Zelda of Ocarina of Time about the Hero of Time, and that creates the new two timelines. So they all three happened in a meta-timeline, and there aren't any more branching timelines from Link failing or dying.
I like this because it preserves the value of all the game stories, including the first four which are some of the most beloved games of the series (okay, maybe not Zelda 2, but it has its fans, myself included).
It makes me so happy to know that there are some people that know of Vortexxy's work. I have yet to find someone as good since her passing
This... Actually works in my head in a way that the other theories don't. I'm going to have to remember this one, I think it's better than what was posited in the video.
Noah Claydon check out Vortexxy Gaming's channel. She does a whole long form video on it explaining everything
@@SlickTater Thank you! That's what it was. I encourage everyone to watch that video, I will see if I can find it.
And wow, I did not know she had passed away, I tried reading about this and it sounds like a close friend reported she had died but no details. That is terrible.
Finnaly someone else is thinking about this timeline I thought I was the only one .
You madlad just amazed me!
A few weeks ago I noticed the plothole of "How can it be possible for the Child-Timeline and Adult-Timeline not to merge, if Link travelling back in time still affects the Adult-Timeline, but being sent further back in time creates it's own timeline?" Making all the Multiverse-Theory, the Butterfly-Effect and the Time-Paradox canon.
But taking an big IF the timeline where Link is sealed is separated from the Adult-Timeline, than that creates the possibility of the "Abandoned-Timeline".
There’s no abandoning of any timeline. He’s traveling back and forth within one (the adult timeline or his original). When he goes back in time to be a child the stuff he does has direct consequence on the land of the future. These two are not separate timelines they are one cohesive string. No matter what link does in the past it’s a canonical fact he eventually goes to sleep for 7 years. He can reverse this process and change stuff by doing stuff in the past but then he just goes back to sleep again for 7 years. He’s not skipping around through realities. When link AS a child (not child link because him and adult link are the same person) does A it causes B in the future. He then ages 7 years and experiences B. There’s not a separate timeline there. Everything done in the “past” or as a child is the same timeline as the adult timeline. It has to be.
The problem is the way you put it on your timeline makes all three timelines look like they are a part of the same thing. This is impossible though. Zelda is not sending Link back to the beginning of his original timeline (well in a sense he is) but it’s a separate timeline because he warns Zelda as a child.
So we have child timeline which is put simply just after the events of ocarina.
Now there are two timelines. You propose that the fallen spawns off the extra time as a child but that makes no sense. With the events of the original timeline past having direct correlation to the future of the original timeline they can’t be different.
The difference here is the way we view it. You view “kid link” in the original timeline as resulting in a new ending because for some reason the time of the past is not directly correlated to the future because “time passes.” This simply is not true. We know that no matter what happens in the past the future still comes forth. There is nothing as a kid link can do to stop ganondorf now. This means that the events of the future always happen. If we can establish that fact then Link going back in time and tweaking the past simply changes what is present in the future. The future is a guarantee.
So planting a seed in the past that grows in the future is now a consistent point on the adult timeline. There are not two separate timelines just one adult timeline.
I’m not good at explaining and I’m just rambling so I’m sorry if this doesn’t make sense but the main point is that
what you view as two is really one continuous string of events in ONE (adult) timeline.
I think even if I got details wrong that fact still remains. It’s been awhile though so 🤷♂️
I always made the Fallen Timeline make sense by assuming it's not the timeline where Link is killed, but rather it's the default timeline in place before Link ever pulls the Master Sword and alters time. This matches with the logical causalities of the actions Link and Zelda took in canon, as opposed to Link somehow dying in one of many multiverses.
EDIT: Well it looks like your idea is a bit similar to mine. Good job!
I mean, technically the fallen timelime as it is, is realistic, it fits with the multi-verse theory. And I'm talking about the one we're everyhting that can possibly happen and a given point in time, can and will happen but each possibility is it's own universe, aka timelime in zelda's case.. For example, let's say u wanted to chose between eating pizza, or going to McDonald's, in reality, u technically went to both, in one reality/universe/timelime, u went to McDonald's, let's say that's the one u r in now, and I'm another u went to eat pizza. And this is just a simple example, things can be waaayy different as decisions lead to more decisions etc. So in one reality u r a rich genius man, and In another you could be poor.
Now this hadn't been proven and its all just a theory, a scientific theo- okay sorry.. and I'm by no means qualified, but this is what I know. So if u know more about this, please correct me. And don't get me wrong, I love your content, and Im always waiting for your next video to come out. Okay imma stop typing now this comment is already wrong enough.
But as he points out in the video, wouldn't this mean every chance Link has to make a decision lead to a different timeline instead of only one moment in one game.
Llama99 yes, but that doesn’t mean all of the other timelines have to be important
@@bentleythecar8738 But there are multiple are moments in the Zelda timeline that are as or more important that do not result in a new timeline.
@@lama99654 more important by what measure? It seems pretty evident that the creators of this series aren't too concerned about the timeline as a whole. The writters of Hyrule Historia seem equally as easy going with it. My conjecture is that they put together a timeline post hoc and centered it around what is arguably the most important game in the series, Ocarina of Time, because of it's real life importance. This series has always had a loose relationship to the idea of "canon" anyways.
@@SixFlagsSlave Yeah. I have also found the whole timeline kind of confusing.
My headcanon is that the Child Timeline now had two Links, but because "our" Link was sent from another timeline, he lost his Triforce and became a regular hylian. After passing away, he became the Spirit of the Hero from Twilight Princess, passing his learnings to the new hero incarnation.
Dude, I'm so glad I found this video, this solves all the timeline for me, you are a genius my dude
This video explained all the stuff I was confused about PERFECTLY.
Thanks you so much MaskedNintendoBandit!! It really helps!!
Until you realize that the abandoned timeline is the Adult timeline
Well this is actually more accurate than the fallen hero timeline being caused by dieing during the final boss of ocarina of time.
Exactly, this would just make it a "what if" scenario. Still works in its own way, but do not make much sense since the other two timelines are actual time split.
It's not an actual timeline, it's just an alternate universe. The fact that there are some people still don't understand this is amazing.
@@IamCanadian3333 People understand it, but this is exactly where the problem lies.
Child and adult are proper timeline splits caused by time travel, and fallen is just an alternate scenario because whatever.
Does not make much sense to go this way and is not at all satisfying, even more so with the other two having a lore explanation for it.
@@IamCanadian3333 It IS a timeline, not an alternate universe.
@@DarkBloodAssa The only thing wrong with this is calling it a timeline, because it's not an actual timeline. It is merely an alternate universe where an alternate outcome occurred. That's the explanation, Link lost in this outcome, it's as simple as that. People clearly don't understand it. You don't have to like it, but don't lie and claim "it makes no sense." It makes perfect sense actually. Link lost and Ganondorf was victorious instead of the other way around, as simple as that. It was a way for Link to the Past and all it's linked games: ALA, LoZ, AoL to make sense.
Just like how (in theory), in this universe, I played my friend in a game of poker and won. But in an alternate universe, I played my friend in that same game, but lost. Or in this universe, I decided to go for a walk today, but in another universe, I instead decided to stay home.
The Arrowverse does this exact same thing actually.
Looks like someone forgot Legacy of Kane... "Time abhors a paradox."
Your timeline doesn't work. There are various reasons but the simplest is that your "abandoned timeline" ends when Link comes back. Which means its not a timeline but a seven year gap where Link disappears.
When Zelda sends him back that either
A. Creates a loop
B. Creates a "second" Link
In this case it has to be B since Majora's Mask cannot happen otherwise and the timeline would effectively end being trapped in a perpetual loop if A occurs
In the beginning you are correct that Link can't be victorious and defeated simultaneously. Since the dark world is created at the END, Ganon cannot "win" in the MIDDLE. If that happened, it wouldn't create a timeline, it would create a paradox as Link can't die & be sent back in time simultaneously.
Correction "Time abhors an unstable paradox" it can handle a proper closed loop paradox but an open loop forces multiple paths to split as a result for stability. first path being the original timeline, second path being the altered timeline, and the third path where the loop never happens because an "issue" in the future is already addressed creating a mirrored path of the original( with certain levels of distortion based on the changes of the loops).
1:50 brah, that image of him looking around in confusion is so cute and funny, I can't believe this kid was able to tackle two timelines like this..
THE ANTICIPATION IS KILLING ME
Edit: this was another excellent theory
You are the first
Bramesh
And I said nothing of it. As everyone should do.
This may actually break my insomnia, get my ass to bed so I can watch it "sooner". Haha
It’s kind of funny that all the games that the Eiji Aonuma didn’t make or had an influence on, so basically every single game mainly made by Shigeru Miyamoto, is in the fallen timeline. This timeline that basically is not conically correct and gets rid of all the lore established. Lol
If Link cannot both live and die, then no choices are possible at all, and it doesn't matter what you do in any timeline because you aren't doing it of your own will, you are just a cog turning as was predestined. The whole point of the IDEA of a timeline split is that _multiple disparate mutually exclusive things_ are _all_ canon.
The multiple timeline idea is basically what happens if you examine all possible outcomes of the wave function collapsing.
That it means that there are only three branches is that regardless of whatever else Link does, if the conditions are met for A, then A is the branch you follow. For B you follow B... for C you follow C... All of them exist simultaneously because the if statement you mentioned has to _exist_ in order to run.
Just because all possibilities can't be true at the same time when the statement is evaluated (an assumption you're making that multiple possible realities cannot overlap) does not mean that that statement must only be evaluated as if one sequence of events has happened.
From the FUTURE, you can only see one result, yet you can even so imagine what other paths might have been. From the past, before the statement is evaluated, you can see many possible paths.
There IS no basis for your assertion that only one path can be taken. The reason there is no Child Fallen path... is simple... if child Link dies, its effectively the same as if adult Link dies.
What we're seeing isn't all possible timelines, we're simply seeing the three major branches of possibility.
Incidentally, you're also ignoring quantum programming which does in fact assume all branches run simultaneously regardless of their mutually exclusive result.
That is exactly my timeline theory.
I've heard a similar idea before too; in another video somewhere.
I love it! Totally my accepted head cannon now! It changes nothing and yet everything!
I liked the ElderScrolls Dragon Break - Legend of Zelda theory:
Basically once Gannondorf split the Triforce in Ocarina, it set all three timelines into motion. All three occur at once moving forward. It also clarifies that the Downfall Timeline only happens if Link dies DURING the Ganondorf fight, creating three distinct timelines based on Power (Downfall), Adulthood (Courage), and Childhood (Wisdom) then doesn't come back together until the Past of TotK/Beginning of BotW/Then TotK forreal this time.
Dragonbreaks, of course being Bethesda's "a Wizard did it" handwave to make all events in each choice in their games technically canon.
Credit to "Thinking At Max Volume" and their video on the subject. Much more informative than my butchery above 😂
Although many others have made similar videos, that one happened to be the first I watched and liked best on the subject*
Wonderful video. This view is completely flawless and would make much more sense than the fallen hero timeline. Some people struggled to understand it but it is actually a perfect idea.
I finally started to understand the timeline.... then this happened
Could It be
HYRULE WARRIORS?!?!?(or a different game)
Joker of The Wild Card Arcana
Game theory already did that
@@nightwalker174 r/woosh
The events in HW are non canon.
@@Borgdrohne13 still, it is a good explanation and theory
@@MiguelRodriguez-zr7of not really
This is what I understand and what actually makes sense.
If Link dies as an adult he CAN'T also live, if link is alive then the timeline where he is supposedly dead cannot exist.
I was thinking that OOT link actually dies originally leading to the events of ALTTP in which ALTTP link defeats ganon. And after defeating ganon link touches triforce and his wish will be granted. We never learn his wish so he might have wished for the fallen hero (OOT link) to succeed. Why wouldn't he right? This would undo the damage dealt by ganon and the sorcerer. But unfortunately thats not how altering past works so he creates two other timelines where the hero is succesful.
Looking at your theory it makes sense about the fallen timeline being a what if scenario but it's not possible that the abandoned timeline (fallen timeline) happened because of Link's absence...
I like that you are brainstorming about this, another possibility could be OOT Link dies and someone time travels to help OOT Link from dieing to create a better present day but does nothing for their fallen timeline and only creates a second universe/ multiverse, the adult timeline. Then OOT Zelda sends Link back 7/8 years in the past to have him create a better present and also out of pity for Link. When Link is changing the past it does nothing for the adult timeline causing the child timeline. Unintentionally Zelda made a third universe/ multiverse.
Ganon rolls a die before the battle.
Abed: Remember you’re about to create six different timelines
Ganon: Sure I am Abed
As much as I want to believe this theory, because I hate the fact that the fallen timeline is so badly explained, it has a mayor hole in it: the chunk that you describe as a forgoten timeline is actually just part of the adult timeline.
Remember, Link does not get sent to the future in a fast travel kind of thing, his consiousness is "sealed" in the sacred realm for 7 years, and then he's awoken by Rauru, every time he's sent back to the past to solve a puzzle as a child, he only takes items that he cannot take as an adult, and since we don't see those items in the future again, it means that Link in deed took them from the past, he just doesn't know that he did until he goes back and does it, those are events that belong to the same timeline and thus are bound to happen at some point (altough it's kinda dumb since that emplies that Link had the items the entire time as an adult, since his body doesn't travel, it just goes in stasis and his consiousness is the one who travels, and if he takes something in the past and keeps it, he should have it in the future from the very beginin)
The only flaw o that way of thinking are the magic bean sprouts, since planting them in the past and having them magicaly apear into the future is imposible, it's like a Trunks situation in wich you can go back and change the past, but that only creates a new timeline where things are different, and you have to make the choice to either go back to your time with nothing changed or live thruoght this new timeline.
The fact that Link is sent to the past to alter the course of history creating the child timeline doesn't afect the Link that's in stasis at the light temple, however, him taking the eye of truth, the silver guantelets or planting trees does, since all this actions create new timelines, and Link goes back to stasis and wake's up in this new timelines everytime, wich means there are timelines to wich Link never returned, and since it's not his body that travels, this timelines either get magicaly distroyed, or there are a few timelines where Link never wakes up from stasis again, since the changes in this timelines are minimals, maybe they could merge into the fallen timeline, who knows this shit is a mess.
*makes Link jump off mountain on 1 heart* The fallen timeline...has begun...
I HAVE LITERALLY BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS! Thank you for making this video, because I now have an easier way of explaining this to people and I am now vindicated
Honestly, this is actually a very good explanation for the abandoned timeline
Solid theory. And it’s funny because I used that same concept of time being constant to prove that the “song of storms” paradox is also invalid since there’s a clear beginning and end.
The only time that link could ever canonically die in OoT is during the Ganon fight. The end. Not that complicated. If you died to say a tektite, that would not count as a canonical death. Therefore it wouldn’t add any potential timeline.