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Tig butt welding thin sheet steel car bodywork getting started part 1 Tips and Tricks #38 R-tech
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- čas přidán 29. 09. 2019
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Intro 1975 by Josh Kirsch/Media right productions.
Outro Three kinds of suns by Norma Rockwell.
Trev you must be psychic. After spending several months practicing welding with a basic A/C flux core welder - fine for learning the basics but useless on sheet as it has a 60 amp minimum - I have just invested in a DC only TIG setup 20 - 200 amp range and about to start the learning curve. Your tips are therefore invaluable for the bodywork jobs I need to practice for. Wish me luck !
I have blown so many panel end welds Trev, now I know why. Love that rod tip over the edge of the plate
Me too. Will definitely try that trick.
The secret is to not blow the panel until at least the third date😂... Otherwise things get all distorted and the panel will only call when it wants a good hammering or needs something...
Just the tip of the rod😂😂🤣🤣... I'll be leaving now
You’re the best Trev! Perhaps the most instructive sheet metal working channel on CZcams.
Absolutely fantastic tutorial, I've got the same TIG from RTech and this series will help me improve my slightly dodgy TIG skills!. Thanks Trev
Thank you for the tip of hanging the rod over the panel edge. First time I have seen that one. I learn a good bit with each Blog. Thanks Charlie
Always well worth watching your videos Trev, you are a great instructor!
I've been using straitened wire myself for some TIG work since around 1985 at the suggestion of the late Ron Fornier, you are much like Ron in so far you have immense knowledge and practical experience that you are gladly willing to share, only the real pros are so open with a secure mind.
Think mild and stainless no probs without filler, its aluminium that needs filler. Good video using basic set up because there are multi process sets which do MIG/stick and basic TIG (DC only and usually lift start) so the technique shown can work with basic kit, but of course its better to have a switched torch , and as you move on, pulse feature . Yep- we have been conditioned a bit by the "stack of dimes" stuff by expert welders, your hammer test shows it doesn't need to be "weld porn" to be a sound joint.
Trev another tip to tell others about is to use thin mig wire as filler rod when tig welding thin panel steel. Hope this helps others.
@Elliot Ryland bunch of degenerate bots
Excellent - really looking forward to the aluminium one. Looks like I need to add a new TIG to the shop list now.
Trev, another great video. I'm a self taught welder. I run my own communications business where I have no choice but to be the mechanic, welder, body guy, or whatever presents its self. I found your videos while repairing my van from road salt damage. Thanks for all of your awesome uploads. While watching this video I seen something that I kinda figured out on my own. I'm glad to see that its actually a thing to not use filler in a tig weld. I noticed just while playing around, learning that I could just kind of wash the two pieces together. I've also washed over old ugly welds to smooth them out a bit. Now that I see someone else do it, its reassuring. Thanks again.
Jamey Larrimore the thing is... this is how all the old hand built cars were welded together using oxygen acetylene welding using none or very little filler rod. The big problem with CZcams and people watching videos on welding is people don’t put into context what they’re watching so everyone goes on and on about having to use filler as that’s what is used in non car bodywork scenarios. You really don’t want a weld bead on a joint in a panel because you then have to spend a long time removing it. We just add a tiny amount of filler using mig wire as filler. Cheers Trev 👍
Wow, never knew the Tig weld is softer then a MIG!! Learn something every day!!
Enjoyed that. Liked the punishing strength test!
Trev that was Amazing mate I've been restoring my healey sprite for the past few years and it's coming to the end now but it's all been mig welding but I've got a big healey as my next project and I think I'm going the off the tig , I've been watching your vids for a while and learnt so much ,just a big thank mate 👍🏼👍🏼
the tig arc is incredibly hot, almost instantaneously
something beginners fail to appreciate.
R tech is a good company to deal with, another great video, Trev.
Lovely interview, sort of a window in to your world, nice to see The Baking Bird van again, looking forward to seeing more videos of her progress.
Mig welding 25 year's, have to get a Tig welder. Thanks Trev!!
tj marshall ......hahaha yea I’ve been saying that for years ....and before that got to get a mig welder instead of my oxy acetylene.
Thanks for this.
Been watching your channel with great interest for a while and really enjoying your content.
I have just had to repair my old MIG welder again, and have been pondering the HF start budget TIG set I found in a junk shop.
With your TIG welding tips and tricks basics I think I will stop dithering and get a set of consumables, and a bottle of argon, and see if I can remember how to TIG weld again. It has been nearly 30 years since I I learnt to TIG at college.
If I take to it well, I may well justify investing in the same R Tech set up you have.
Thanks again, Alfred
Yet again you've shown me something really useful ... I've not seen that method for testing a weld before.
But as ever, once you've seen it, you can't quite understand why you didn't do it that way in the first place.
Thanks!
Many years ago, not sure why, but I was shown how to butt weld panels together with gas, and a cold wet rag, but using .8mm mig wire as filler rod, I use the same method with a tig only without the cold rag. Don't know if you've tried that, but seems to make the weld better, and stops Pitts. Yes more to clean up but only I tiny bit.
Another great video Trev, nice to see you have a good Tig welder, I have the big one ideal for chopper frames!!! 260amp only trouble is you need 32 amp supply, but RTECH are so easy to talk to.
Great job Trev.
Wow, that was awesome, I've always heard that if you didn't use filler rod, the weld would crack. You blew that myth out of the water, great video.
I have read the interview - the van looks fantastic already. I hope one day I can try your coffee! All the good for you and your family!
This is a timely video for me Trev, as I am looking to upgrade to a TIG as well (re previous comments on You Tube) Great info for a dumb galah like me. Looking forward to more videos.
Mental! Astounding butt weld. 30yrs with MIG, gotta take the plunge and get a TIG
Good Day Trev, That was a great proof of concept , I do the same thing but I use .023 Mig wire as a filler. nobody in the world makes a panel joint as tight as you do . Thanks for taking the time to make these Videos Pete M
Another majestic video Trev.
I also have a TIG welder from R-tech in Gloucester - can recommend anyone considering purchasing such a welder, that they first consider them. Lots of good info from John over at doubleboost you tube channel if more evidence is needed.
I'm welding over the weekend on my Porsche - so will be "stealing" Trev's settings...
Mate your too hard on yourself.. i was gonna mig weld my patch panels and now you have just convinced me to do exact same as you have done in this video...
Thank you so much
I’m so glad you got a gig mig to show us..
Good morning Trev, once again a very informative video. Lots of tips, tricks and techniques. I like your tig info, very useful and as always clever and simple to understand. Thanks and take care.
The first time I have seen TIG welding....very very interesting Trev...MIG is my normal mode.
excellent tips with the welding wire to set the edge without blowing through! thanks Trev, awesome yet again
Thanks Trev, great video. I have the bigger brother welder still getting to grips with it so looking forward to your tips and tricks.
If you ever get the chance, spot welding (possibly plug ?) would be a wicked topic to cover Trev. I'm about to embark on a 64 Mk1 Mini rebuild and have heritage front wings and outer A panels to fit. Rest of body (sans 1 door skin and Speaker-holed :( rear parcel tray) is mint. Seen a few other videos of spot welding panels but your tutorage is next level... and very logical. Cheers for the channel... Mint!!!
Never less than amazed, always inspired !
I bought a cheap (Chinese/Italian) welder from EBAY a TM200 HF for about 140 gbp about 2 years ago, it works great having built stainless exhaust pipes ,loads of sheet metal work and even stick welding various fabrications , the only drawback is no AC so it wont weld aluminium but for not a lot of money you get a working machine .
Great video Trev , being new to renovation projects will be following these next few blogs with great interest
Great video Trev. Great job welding and explaining the settings.
Cheers, Jeff.
cabdriveruk thanks Jeff much appreciated 👍
Wow, impressive strength in that weld.
r-Tech welders are the best quality UK sets you can buy. I have this TIG/MMA and one of their MIGs.
are they uk made ,,,
tom thompson I don’t believe the initial construction is built in the Uk but they repair and service in the uk cheers Trev 👍
thats all that matters , back up ,,, as long as some one local can fix things i really dont care where they are made , you dont buy a machine these days you really just rent it , for as long as the warranty lasts , the days of soldering in caps and swaping out a diode pack vanished with transformers .
IThanks for the demo. I have have a small mig but been contemplating buying a tig too. Sure does a nice job.
Last bit of welding I did was the deck on a john Deere lawnmower. Pretty thin stuff, and did it on an arc welder. Wish I had a tig or mig
Very well done demonstration. I'll probably be coming back to this one when I finish getting my equipment together. Thanks for sharing!
I definitely had my "AHA " moment, thank you for another excellent video.
I jumped into tig 7 years ago, and it has been a worthwhile adventure. First efforts with butt welding sheet metal were not nearly as good as you did here. I'd like to get a copper heat sink with a magnet to hold it tight on the back. My machine is an old style 240V professional Lincoln transformer, but I do envy those who have the new inverter devices that can run on 120V.
Thanks for the vid!! It’s a great helmet, I have one also. Excellent field of vision. Brilliant product without breaking the bank💪🏻
great work trev , had a tig for years but never used it so will now give it a shot after this
Hi Trev, another great vid mate! welding without filler rod is known as welding autogenously, but I guess you know that. I normally get great results with the gun size dropped down to a WP 9 with a stubby gas lenses with 1.6 mm tungsten. Keep it close to the work but welding without filler rod always leaves a very slight crater. Keep it up Trev we love blog mate.
Nice work, and awesome study. I've sure made a few tests like that, and all new data is superhelpful. Everyone called me crazy when I broght a hammer to the stuff I've spent so much time making nice and flat. I went and got a Esab Sentinel A50 last year, expensive, but well worth it for those low amp aplications. What I've learnt is that if you can reach from the back, you should hammer and dolly as you go, like when the steel is hot, like when MIG welding. I figured out this is super awesome for another reason then setteling the steel and releasing tention. Like when the steel is hot, it will release the hydrogen as well, like the fizz out of a soda pop, so if you agitate it when it's abowe like 200 celcius, it will make the weld less porus as well. I read a study on that, but it was about stainless, it still aplies for normal steel in the sense of purety and microscopic pores. The surface of the structure will have a crazy lot to say about cracking it, like cutting glass, so like a polished surface will have noticebly more strength then a slightly thicker one with edges, or even scratches. When you get a nice and even surface like that, it is perfect in that sense, and it looked like it just cracked slightly in one of the pores. Like if it's on something that need the strenth, you can just re-heat that, and tap it as it cools down to relive the tention from the steel and knock out the hydrogen at the same time. You can get 0.8mm tigrod, but you probebly need to special order it, 1mm will work fine as well, but I've done just fine with 1.6. The 70s-6 makes the back of the weld most pretty acording to Jody over at welding tips and tricks here on youtube. My cars are less then 0.6mm being old VW's, and I think I ran a tad under 20 amps before I started pulsing. I didn't do full runs like that until I felt comfortable with the pulsesettings. Think I run about 50/50 with like 10% off current (don't think there are many machines that can run at 3 amps, and finding settings is both personal and equipment dependent), and I dab on the first pulse, and melt it into the steel on the next pulse. When you pulse you can get closer to 30 amps, when I've put down a rod on there, I sometimes pulse up to 40 amps to make sure I boil out all the unpureties, like if I dip the tungsten or otherwise notice unpureties in the weldpool. Think I run the gas at like 8 or 9, and I use a gaslens with a number 6 cup I think. Gaslens makes the coverage much better, because the flow of gas is evenly distributed. I got a gaslens so I could use less gas, but it will let you use more gas as well. Like if you turn up the gas the covrage will get worse because there is to much pressure or something. Well, I just forgot to messure my gas flow, and figured it was better with a tad more gas. I welded outside this summer, and windy was no problem. I had to get better at overhead as well this summer, and turnes out it can be done with a lot of practice and proper settings, but it didn't feel that good having that weld pool over my junk, knowing how little it takes to burn through. The van is looking great BTW :D
TIG welds are just as malleable as gas welds, and far easier to work compared with MIG and MMA.
I was brought up using O/A starting in the ‘60s and only now trying TIG.
Will be doing a butt repair to my NS Austin Seven Ruby door lower section that had a horrible UNSEALED lap joint repair.
Your video is just what I needed to give me the confidence I needed, BUT I still keep dipping the **** tungsten.
Thanks Trev 👍
A great tip to pass on is matching the tungsten diameter to the sheet thickness. If you have them the same it is much easier to weld. Use a filler rod the same or slightly less then the sheet as well. Mig wire is good for this.
That’s was great including reading the article too. Thanks for sharing! Van’s looking schmicky!
I like the intro music, I saw the credit you gave but it sounded more like Isaac Hayes Truck Turner.
I love your content Trev. Keep em coming.
Thats pretty fine Trev . . .
Very interesting to see Trevor thank you
Thanks Austin 👍
At 5:00 or so, I thought, I HOPED that you were going to make a tack IN TO the hole in that washer! It seemed like a new world opening up. As it happens, I have some heavy copper strap ("bus bar") that has holes in it every inch or so, and was just imagining clamping that down and making all the tacks in that way. Good job, in any case, I just got a little excited there.
On the other hand, the treatment of the very end of the joint (rod hanging over) is completely new to me, and makes perfect sense. This is a really nice demo! "Autogenous Welding"!
Well trev you tempted me to buy a new tig welder and of course I bought the R-tec ac/dc rig looking forward to welding aluminium.
A lot harder to weld aluminum. Start with steel if you've not tig'd before!
nice, I like the way you handled the edges I will probably start doing like that. I have my own way, which is to shove a little extra filler as I approach the edge to make sure my puddle is big and then just back up a little. but I think your way is better, I'm almost positive your way is better. thanks for the lesson.
I’m just about to start getting down to the nitty gritty of welding shut the massive hole I cut out of the back of my project van. I wanted to use tig, but had been persuaded to mig. I’m probably going to reverse that decision now. Only issue is that I will be welding outside so might same shielding gas issues as you.... time will tell. Subscribed, can’t wait to see the next. Between you and this old tony you have my CZcams tied up nicely :)
actually, if you are dealing with old panels that arent perfektly clean and that you dont want to form after welding... use mig... its far mor forgiving when it comes to dirt and wind. Tig is essencially the way to go if you are building panels especially if you want to form them after welding because of the soft and clean welds.
Trev ... I really like your style & your work.
nice weld, nice tig machine, wonder if they have that sort in Aus...Thanks again Trev.
Your nearest BOC outlet has lots of choice, all in one place. Wetherell Park is the one I go to.
Nice clear and simple. Thanks a lot Trev
Physical considerations aside, the big thing about filler rod is that it helps the welding, it's not just more metal! Our typical MIG wire for example is full of deoxidisers, and silicon and so on. It's definitely not the same as using some stray wire (coat hanger wire!). I have used "tie-wire" and coat hanger wire, they both work but there's a lot more sparks and a lower quality weld for sure. It's much worse with aluminum, some alloys show a lot of shrinkage cracking, and I think are almost impossible to weld w/o filler since every bead will have a big crack right down the middle! Someone here has mentioned using MIG wire for this; there's a little gadget called TIG PEN I think? You hold it like a pen in your off hand, and it feeds MIG wire toward the weld. Haven't actually got this to work yet, but it's made exactly for what we see here, and I think it WOULD work for someone who had, ah, more steady hands than I do!
Cool technique tips that I will definitely apply with my powertig welder.
When you crack an arc to see where your weld is going to be… That’s old-school arc welding...Classic
Right on!… Strike a light
piet mondrianstudent ... so do I… it also fits my magnified Lens in the hood for tig welding and my eyesight Isn’t as good as it used to be
As mentioned - the Ah ha moment when you showed the wire on the panel edge! Noted for future use !
Sheet metal workers of old would nearly always use the fusing run technique when butt gas welding steel or aluminium panels, followed by a light hammering to stretch/flush the welded seam; further shaping or wheeled would then be applied as required. Very experienced 'sheeties' would weld along a seam without tack welding along the joint due to problems of distortion. This would commence with the two sheets touching at the start of weld and the free end separated by a considerable gap, as welding proceeded they would use their free hand to manipulate one of the two sheets (the second sheet being held by some other means) to control the amount the sheets were pulled together by the contraction of the solidifying weld pool. Not easy to describe or do, but very effective when done by an expert !
Beautiful work. This his how half wings and rear arches should be welded in.
I have both. I picked up a tig welder for aluminum. I like how tig does not spark and spatter like mig.
Good video trev. More tig welder videos especially on using the pluse function.
Thanks Trev, good information, AHa -filler rod on the edges!
hi trevor well done man, excellent explanation. nice trick with the rod not to blow the edge, won´t be much of a problem once you get a pedal but on the fixed amps machines it´s a super good technique. and man did you beat that panel! i´ll do asap as anger management therapy :D:D. i´ve said it before i´m learning a lot about auto body work from you so thanks again, and now will tackle as my first project the replacement of the whole front panel of an old vw jetta for my son. need to bore the spot welds first. i´m thinking of reshaping an 8mm drill bit so to cut flatter. take care. peter
So that is why it is called The Baking Bird
Another great vid Trev...… hope I can master what you are showing me
That R-Tech helmet looks remarkably the same as my Miller Digital Elite!
"Isn't where I wasn't " love it .😁
Steve Williams that’s “Trevspeak” 😂
Thank you. I use a MIG welder, but, would like to eventually have a TIG welder. The welds are cleaner, softer, and done faster.
Good stuff Trev! Cheers, Doug
Been looking at buying an R Tec tig but wasn’t sure if I should get the 160 or 200a, you’ve just answered question.. cheers once again informative and fun to watch
Nigel Gregson it’s always down to the thickness, if you’re only doing 1mm steel then a 200 is useless as you’ll only be using 20-30 it ramps up if you’re going to weld thicker aluminium. Cheers Trev 👍
Thanks for sharing Trev!
Nice subject. Thanks a lot Trev.
U are certanly very skilled
Standard Whitworth Gauge is still in use GOOD!
I have tried your trick starting the arc on a filler rod but all to often it didn't work for me and I ended up with a big hole. What I found to work reliably for me is to clamp a little piece of sacrificial sheet metal to the ends so that a T-joint is formed. Now I can start the arc on the sacrificial metal piece, use some filler rod and I don't blow a hole. When I am done welding I cut it off.
Great timing Trev! I'm in the process of choosing and buying a TIG welding machine and your videos will be very helpful as examples how to use it! Maybe you can make a video (or just put few comments in next one) how to choose TIG welder for sheet metal work? What is important and what is not? I'm a little bit confused by all the options!
dawid oszkiewicz Thanks David rather than blinding the viewer with tons of info I’ve kept the detail to the absolute minimum and will build upon with each episode. Cheers Trev 👍
Great job. Unbelievable strong weld for without filler! Would be great for body worrk.
Gracias por este video con subtítulos en español me sacaste de muchas dudas que tenía gracias trev eres el mejor
2 reasons you blow my mind , you look like my dad in his early days , He used calafonian poppy oil for his hair , Deer dad has left us , never forgotten ,your a cleaver son of a gun..
buy both if you can afford it, they both have their place
THANKYOU once again ,lm so looking forward to the aluminium instruction video as you Trev are a great instructor . Once again thanks
Great video thanks once again Trev
Great demo !
Trev,that should have been crap,but no,it was friendly and interesting.That rtec welder looks very satisfying to use,makes me want to buy a shagged out car to repair!
cheers
Very helpful - straight to the points -- AhhHa indeed. Thanks!
great info thanks very much.
Great video Trev
Nice, good info I appreciate it. Please keep it up
Thanks Trev again great vid
Very nice
doubleboost thank you John for your videos on the welder and your mention of myself to the company, keep up the good work and the baking. Much love to you. Trev
Thanks. Appreciated.
Thank you 👍
Need more of this lesson