This is the BEST way to visualize Neutral Steer in Racing!
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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I was driving Lotus type 49 on Assetto Corsa today, thing kept going sideways so easily, small sharper steering angle at the turn in and then just throttle play, its crazy because its very light and reaches 290+kph, one of the hardest cars to master for me
All of the classic lotus cars are so fun to drive 🤩
Trying to drive it on the norschliefe is actually impossible
This is how the lotus was driven 60 years ago, it was called the 4 wheel drift, and it's so satisfying to get right, but so easy to get wrong.
@@blacknificent-233 It's not, it just requires smoothness... There's far harder cars
@@Obi-WanKannabis example?
"I'm going to do a race with literally no practice"
Next sentence
"I'm going to practice 5 minutes"
😂
It was the warmup session inside the race session lol
the word he used was "absolutely" which makes it even worse 🤣🤣
@@SuellioAlmeida Reprehensible. Words have meaning. If we lose respect for the development of words and language society collapses.
Do better. Drop the hyperbole.
Try using language properly maybe. You're a communicator. @@SuellioAlmeida
@@matter9 you’re absolutely right, the nuances of word choice are crucial. which is why i’m surprised you didn’t take the care to consider the meaning of the word “practice” in this context, which has the explicit connotation of pre-session preparation. any iracing user or sim-racer should be aware of that connotation and therefore understand that doing only the pre-race warmup LITERALLY means no practice in this instance. the fact that you’re not versed enough to understand that nuance does not have any bearing on suellio’s communication skills, as he makes content for racing drivers and therefore doesn’t need to qualify every term he uses so that the layman can decode it. since you’re so confident i just wanted to let you know that you’re empirically false with your conclusion.
so, ya know, do better.
The way those cars slide is the definition of "a car that will dance with you" and I love it.
I’ve been grinding this car in AC with my shitty belt driven wheel and man does it force you to be super smooth. I can drive fast but forcing myself to self steer the entire way without spinning out is proven much more difficult than I’d thought. Definitely going to continue practicing with it as it’ll only hopefully improve my skills!
where can you download this car for AC?
Race department @@jianh1989
Shitte belt driven wheel what? I got a Thrustmaster T300RS and it's wayyy better than the absolute garbage Logitech gear driven trash. Though to be fair the problem is what gear's they use not that it's gear driven. After all most car's steering is gear driven too.
it's alway fun and extremely satisfying when you get the perfect speed thru a corner and manage to do neutral steer instead of drifting on winter roads, since i got my licence in 2016 i mostly only had rwd cars with manual and no traction control or abs, makes for fun times
You really showed your mastery racing this extremely difficult car on an extremely difficult track with hardly 5 minutes of practice with no previous practice, never crashing out once, going full speed and catching the other best drivers. That alone ought to make people buy your Motor Racing Checklist. As a user myself, I very much recommend this course.
Excellent video Suellio, Keep grinding!! And thank you for the content.
This car looks so fun to drive, especially at the Nordschleife! I recently got the motor racing book and am loving it as well so far
Maaaaaannn!!! This video just single-handedly convinced me to buy and start racing the skip barber. Constant neutral steer is my favourite way to drive!
I learnt how to drift, it helped me so much with neutral steer
This is a good example of both of you trusting each other when racing
Doing this race in these cars made you feel like a hero driving these. Cant wait til Reingmeister brings these back. I had soooo much fun thst week.
Hello Suellio, great video, I teach this in the real world and wanted to complement you on getting this right (very few people do). One thing I define that you should mention (you spoke about the "window") is what the limits are on the low end and high end (define the window), on the low end it is any reduction of steering (the more the rear slips the less steering angle for any given corner) and on the high end the wheel going past straight ahead (and going into counter steer) as the high end, as soon as you are counter steering you loose overall car grip and therefore are slower. So the window is any reduction in steering to straight. I call the Zero Steer (in my book Optimum Drive) not neutral steer because neutral steer often includes some counter steer (which as discussed is too much and slower). Keep it up!
I don't know anything about this game (other than it looks awesome, and apparently is very diverse)...
...but the old Formula Ford cars were about as neutral as it gets in an open wheeled car, without stepping into something considerably more twitchy and prone to snap steer (center weighted).
I was there for the full race during the stream, wow that was a fun race to watch
hey, there's me all the way in the back Tyler Young19. This was also my first time driving the skippy, I crashed like 5 times in the few minutes of practice before the race, but managed a clean race with only like 2x on off tracks. Really fun car, I wish it would race here more often.
The entirety of S3 had me rooting hard for you 😂 awesome fight down to the final few corners!
Love your videos!
Umm Suellio, we all love you. You’re a treasure in this community, but you can’t say “I’m going to do a race with absolutely no practice”and the in the next breath say, “I am going to literally practice for five minutes.” 😊😊
5 minutes in sim racing clock is absolutely no time
I was using this technique last night on ACC with a 911 GT3 at Hungaroring to link sweeping 3rd gear corners
Correct!!! IRL I do 50 laps/week at MSR Houston in a ND2. I use a very adjustable front ARB to maintain neutral steer and save the front tires wear.
Just shaved a solid half second consistently off laps in the MX5 miata of all things, this week on Summit Point. Where a half a second is the difference between pole and middle of the chaos, 1.22.2 or 1.22.7 is that spread. All by initiating turns with a mor stabby motion to get the weight transfer to do the work without using front tire grip to force it around. Lots of physics going on, but this video explained exactly why it was advantageous to do so. Kicking the ass out a bit on entry just with a flick, quite a trick.
That overtake at the end of the long straight before finish was intense! The line you were on would be so easy to touch that right-side curb and fly into the car on the left.
As a controller driver on AC, I by default do lots of neutral steering when cornering Nordschleife with AWD road cars. I find that the most consistent way of cornering with only throttle application, since mid corner corrections with a controller can be very hairy.
i’ve been trying this in the Miata races. 👌🏽
This week's daily race A on GT7 with the MR2 is a good place to practice a neutral steer technique. Dab the brake, turn in and let the car rotate all while adjusting the wheel from -2○ to +2○.
My y favorite coach!!!!
This skippy drives like a Fun Cup which I am racing IRL. To be fast, you need to drive it on the slip angle. It uses a radial tire like the skip barber and gives so much fun in return.
BEAUTIFUL!❤
That was a perfect race! Good battles, good overtakes, and an epic finish. I'm just getting back into iRacing after a long hiatus, maybe I'll check out your course.
This car looks so fun to drive holy shit lol. Thank you for this excellent video!
Hey Suellio, I support your content and the information you share to us fellow Sim Racers. Keep it and Happy New Year.🎉🫡
Somewhere I heard or read that the slip angle with highest lateral grip is 8°, so if you set a few degrees toe-in on your front tires and go to turn into a corner, your front tires are already at the optimal angle and you just have to transfer the weight to get the lateral grip going. That's for faster turn-in, of course you lose top speed and tire life whenever you add any alignment other than neutral.
"i'm gonna race with no practice" proceeds to practice for 5 minutes
One of the most fun ways to race is with this type of cars
10:45 was a pretty genius play. You stuck your nose in there, but not really committed. However the other car left space, messing up his line, so you got the better corner and got him in the next one.
I used to race the Skippy cars irl. The iR representation of the car is actually pretty realistic. Throwing that shitbox into Sunset Bend at Sebring at ~130mph was terrifying. Lmao.
Excellent video as always. Can you make a video on how to drive the FIA F4 in iRacing? Or are there any other cars that you may recommend before jumping into the f4?
love the skippy
After watching this video I wanted instantly buy barber 2000, but I decided that better way to spend this money is to buy your book, tbh its the first book I ever bought in my life ;)
Hope it will help me much more than this car, also I'm saving up to buy checklist so hopefully I will improve from 800IR and making mistakes every lap to something cool...
Cheers!
Welcome aboard!
@@SuellioAlmeida I didn't expect it to work as fast but I'm proud to say that today I won my first ever race in IR (F4 on snetterton) and finished p3 another race!!!
I was just reading for 30 minutes while driving to work, chapter about focusing on the race and not thinking about the wining was cruicial today.
Thank you so much Suellio!!!
I can't wait to improve even more and more tommorow :D
I feel like the Skip Barber is one of the best cars to learn in, everything in the car almost feels exagerated. You can clearly feel the tyres go from cold to warm, the car slides but without punishing you too much. I think anybody who has driven the car, circa gets what i mean.
Would love to get an opinion on this. I loved the skip in iRacing and went pretty quickly into gt3. With GT3's I feel somewhat lost and slow. Should I go back to Skip barber and use this as a learning platform? I really love GT3's though and would love to be able to master them. Should I just keep driving GT3s or stick with the skip for some more months?
the beginning of travel and in the end. So when you SSU that i skuld be able to brake to 1%, 2% and so on, so its hard beucase i Might think om braking 25% but im relly just costing. What do you recomend i do to fix this?
I use to be so afraid of the Nürburgring Nordschliefe. My first experience was on nfs shift. I took my favorite the Pagani Zonda R and around the back straight I went max out and this was my first time running the track so I felt like I could you go flat out around the corner at the end. And instead I got too much air flew up and then rolled about 6 times. And scared the crap out me.
Does anyone know how to get the steering and pedal position overlay in project cars 2 by chance?
8:42 and onwards was insane.
"Why is it not killing the tires when it slides so much?"
- Because its a shallow angle slide, so basically normal driving. Even if you drive perfectly straight, constant speed, and on a good tarmac, you are constantly about 10-11% in a slide. So that shallow slide doesnt cause any significant increase in tire wear.
does someone know alternative of this car in AC
If the car could ( and some of then do) move the rear tires slightly following the angle of the front tires, that would make a closed corner without losing that grip ?
Try and race Dallara 317 on AC. Or Tatuus, is so much fun to drive it
well, it's like drifting just more subtle and harder cause you need to be way more precise
Dang I thought that was just an initial d gimmick. It’s pretty sick that it actually works
thats what makes initial d so good, when they get into the details and technical stuff its all pretty accurate obviously the races themselves are crazy dramatic and unrealistic but the techniques they use are real and explained pretty well
@@logantunstall308 yeah I agree with you there but some of the stuff like the “Fujiwara Zone” was obviously bs and I thought this was like that
The other car you have to drive like that, is the Lotus 49 based on the 1967 F1.
Man is driving the car that handles the same as AE86 Tuned in Assetto Corsa
I did Assetto Corsa league racing with no FFB. Won a few races and ended up P3 in the standings. You do not need the top of the line stuff to get better. Your learning might happen faster because you got more information, but as all sim racers know practise is key
ig that's the difference, here suellio jumps into a car track combo and is immediately up with the fastest guys in his split, if he had no ffb, i'm sure he would need a lot of practice instead
Mx5 cup cars are no different haha feels like tandem drifting at times💀💯
What music of in the background?
I really like your videos, you clearly have a lot of racing knowledge, but where does the neutral steering come into play?
I know real world racers, and when they talk about neutral steering, it's nothing like what your doing here.
"5 minutes of practice" said Suellio on a track that takes 5 minutes for one lap
@0:09 "I'm going to do a race with absolutely no practice. I'm literally going to practice for 5 minutes"
Faz uns videos em Portugues tbm. O Brasil hj em dia está crescendo muito no automobilismo virtual e temos pouquissimas referencias. Não estou falando para largar o Ingles. Porém acho que poderia fazer uns basicos que o povo iria gostar muito.
Sounds like slip angle to me.
Do this all the time with my Fugu Z in Gran Turismo
Doesn't the FF1600 (Formula Ford) slip even more? It feels like it does to me when driving it, but maybe it's just the differentials these cars use. IIRC, the diff in the FF appeared to be more sophisticated or at least more adjustable as far as behavior through different sections of corners goes, somewhat reminiscent of vintage F1 (Lotus 79) adjustability. I could be dreaming of course. But I know the FF scares the crap out of me sometimes because it feels like the rear axle was replaced with a skateboard truck or something.
FF does slip quite a bit at the limit as well, very fun 😂. Skip Barber still uses street tires where you can hold a slightly higher slip angle I think. FF is almost like a semi slick, at least in iracing
These cars seem so fun to drive I wish i could afford iracing
Get rfactor 2 bro
iRacing is much more realistic
There's a pretty good mod of the Skippy for Assetto Corsa and RFactor 2
Assetto Corsa has fun cars to drive, just the organised racing is the best on iRacing
Ray FF1600 - more fun with manual gearing :)
Came here for Neutral Steer.
Stayed for Initial D practice sesh
Suellio, paid for your 2.0 course but have an issue with Discord - not fully functional because of some password glitch. How do I get access to the course?
Send me an email with your order info and email, contact@suellioalmeida.ca
after watch hundred videos of misha in nurburring i recognise that this track is nurburring in the first corners XD
Wich car is this?
An explanation on why Radials can slide but Slicks cant would be awesome. My assumption is that the air gap allows for less resistance for the rubber to deform but I could be wrong
youre pretty much on point with your guess.
more grip = less slide, i've noticed that trying to slide with slicks is harder because they snap back to grip faster and maintaining the slide is thus way harder to do than with street tires
@@nielsoudegriep2900 yeah their slip angle graph is much tighter and that peak grip is much harder to achieve with slicks when on the limit
I could be wrong but I’d imagine the skip cars were designed originally to give people a teaching tool to understand over steer, understeer and feel very connected where every action the driver makes with the car amplifies. I don’t think they were designed to be super fast race cars.
What is the triple throttle stab technique at 3:16?
im guessing he kicks the throttle 3 times to get the rear end loose to initiate the neutral steer.
Honestly, 5 minutes is all you need for a new car. But learning a new track to perfection can take unlimited hours. I am still learning on every track because during races you have to take all kinds of lines.
What is it? Is it rFactor?
What does “neutral steer” feel like through the force feedback?
If its what i think it should be almost floaty or could also be interpreted by your body as very grippy depending on the car. Because thats the angle some cars would prefer to corner in. Dirt and cement oval cars are built to specifically aim for this angle to be able to rotate as necessary, since oval cars are almost always front end limited.
Good question. Especially if you play AC too much, then you can't know this haha Generally steering is just getting bit lighter because of rear end rotating, yaw rotation. But steering doesn't reverse as in case of oversteer, instead wheels just points at about straight direction. Although often neutral steer is quickly altering between oversteer and neutral steer, and sometimes understeer too - in same turn, depending on car and setup. Sometimes you can completely forget about FFB guiding you in such dynamic, because you have to be able to read car and anticipate what happens very fast, so you aren't too late to catch possibly rapid oversteer, as well as rapid understeer to snap oversteer situation, neutral steer can really put you on your toes, especially with high performance, stiff, high frequency, downforce developing modern race car. In AC it doesn't really happen. IDK how it is in ACC now, don't use it anymore, but I remember in early access of ACC such dynamic was quite pronounced and typical AC enjoyer absolutely hated it because "FFB not communicative enough".... But thats how neutral steer is - it is neither understeer or oversteer. Worth to mention that depending on tires and geometry understeer will also have little or no hint through steering torque. You might also see RL drivers sometimes actively sawing the wheel back and forth when in neutral steer, because it is hard to decide what to do... well they also do that sometimes because peak steering torque and peak of slip angle doesn't happen at the same time, but that is a bit different topic. Simracers absolutely forget the eyes, and believe it or not - without what we see and what we anticipate there would be no FFB, it wouldn't make sense, visual cues + anticipation are probably at least 95% of importance.
the fastest lap at the end wasnt set by you fyi. something i noticed. the guy who won got the fastest lap by 2 seconds to you! great content!
he practiced
@@SuellioAlmeida I sure did :-)
What car is this?
How do you still have rear tyres after 2 laps of that?
Tire wear is actually perfectly balanced with the fronts
"This is a pneu de celta 1.0" me matou
"Absolutely no practice" "I'm going to practice for 5 min" What the hell did I just hear?
Can someone explain me what neutral steering is(question mark)
All four wheels are at similar traction level during a slide. Usually steering is pointed straight in case of perfect neutral steer, and with RWD car 99% of steering might be done with throttle. You can find some youtube videos of 1967 911s being driven with extremely pronounced and long lasting neutral steer applications, almost through entire turns from entry till the exit, I have worked a lot to replicate that in rF2. There is probably no other situation when driver and a car works as much together as in neutral steer, and it is most spectacular vehicle dynamic IMO.
what is neutral steer???
It’s the same as a Rotax kart they also need a 4 wheel teeny tiny slide to be the fastest
This car is so much more fun and harder to drive with a proper stick sequential instead of paddles.
Those aren’t bias ply tire model?
Good question, I guess they aren't. Rubber compound and tires having thread also gives some compliance, no reason why radials can't have little play in them, even in downforce car.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is just a controlled four wheel drift?
It is same thing. Doesn't matter how to call it. Essentially understeer is when front slip exceeds rear by significant amount, oversteer is opposite, and neutral steer is when slip is very similar at front and rear and car is just rotating in yaw angle, and it is a VERY real life thing, would say it even means that car is properly set up if it works like that.
@@41BOT I'm aware it's a real thing having used it before but I tend to find in my car that I throw it into a 4 wheel drift and use the throttle to control the rotation instead of the brake
Never before has slip angle been so easy to decipher, I've understood the concept but this put it into perspective.
it was a fun video but I don't see the difference between slip angle and what you call neutral steer. at the minimum it appears they happen at the same time.
Slip angle is the general idea of how tires actually turn a car, neutral steer is the technique that allows mess with it in a way to reduce your lap time.
I'm trying force to this all cars i race in Assetto Corsa 1, but I feel like idea of this game to have it all cars understeer ;]
Suellio, what car is this please?
skip barber formula 2000 i guess
@@zurielheros8872 yes you're right. He actually mentioned it in video it's Skip Barber.
"Absolutely no practice, im literally going to practice for 5 minutes"
Takumi driving style
I can't help but think
In real life, the floor of this car would be toast after lap 1
wouldnt drift like that warm the tyres too much?
You saw one guy at the start getting his tires overheated. Anyway, it depends, for those tires it makes sense to have a bit more roomy operational windows. I would even guess that aerodynamic yaw sensitivity is perhaps more influential to these cars for how much they can yaw and still go fast.
GrandPrixLegends... grandpa of iRacing was all about that, 4wd`rift :]
I believe all oval cars are built around this principle lol
5:26 😂😂
🤘
So you realy didnt explain what neutral steer is, how to use it, or why its i.portant. 😢
I have a video about that!
czcams.com/video/98TCC6z8dB8/video.html
Aww! I see I've accidentally found a place for myself :)
Hey!
that's Ayrton Senna driving style!