Did The Media Fail NBA Fans? | JJ Redick & Doris Burke Debate
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2023
- In this clip, Doris Burke and JJ Redick discuss the shortcomings of sports media not covering players like Nikola Jokic of The Denver Nuggets enough.
Don't forget, JJ will be live Monday night on CZcams to talk Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray and The Denver Nuggets vs. Jimmy Butler, Bam Adebayo and The Miami Heat in The 2023 NBA Finals.
Subscribe to The Old Man and The Three podcast w/ JJ Redick (ESPN / First Take) and Tommy Alter CZcams channel today for more NBA analysis, player interviews and highlights.
#nbafinals #miamiheat #denvernuggets - Sport
Love talking to Doris about this stuff. Be sure to check out the full interview here: czcams.com/video/_sGM8XWx1BM/video.html
It is called lazy journalism. Also real basketball fans hate the false narratives thrown around and shoved to our faces. Coz eventually we have eyes and common sence and we know this weak stuff. God bless
Nice topic
They were too afraid of being called racist to let the best player win MVP. Feelings over truth in 2023 thanks to the you know who
To hell with Doris, I cannot stand her, and she's one of the five voters who robbed Caleb of his rightful ECF MVP and I will never forgive that.
@@rudzabboid4620 Jokic got robbed MVP by lazy "journalism" Perk just threw out a hot take and it worked. I say this as a Heat fan.
The big problem with the Media vs Jokic is that the media have perfectly lined themselves up against a guy who is 100% talent and 0% doesn't care about drama.
By doing this they have proven that being talented isn't the #1 thing they look for in a player anymore. They want controversy more than they want basketball to reach a higher level.
They looking for someone with character someone that can scream and meanmug like lebron. Look what ja has became. We’ve seen some highflying dunks for decades but the meanmuggin and screaming so talent is not really what they looking for.
It never was about talent. They want people who give them good sound bites.
Duh. They want low hanging fruit. Makes their lives easier. Those narratives write themselves. Actually digging to find stories requires work
they want clicks from the casual fans and saying anything that would spark that, even to the extreme of saying outlandish things which have nothing to do with talent and having no accountability to sports journalism, shows they really aren't doing their job of covering sports properly and instead becoming TMZ reporting for the sake of headlines.
NO Fcking question the media failed the NBA fans.
I gotta defend the media on the topic of Jokic a bit. Like what is the media suposed to do here? Not only is Jokic not a flashy player to begin with, but his greatness is so consistent that it looks effortless, but therefore also boring to someone who doesn`t know already that this is exactly what makes him great. As for the media the Jokers consistency especially is a problem, because after the 100th trible double is it even worth mentioning. Like what are they suppose to talk or argue about with Nicola, he doesn`t even make mistakes and nobody can complain about his defence nomore either. The only thing they can really do is talk about where on the all time great list he cúrrently fits. And even that is hard because we have never ever seen a center like him, there is nobody to compare him to. So the media and we don`t really know what he truely is what he means for the game other than he is awesome. But again there isn`t really anything to discuss about him at this point.
None of my friends had heard about Jokic until recently. No average person knows who Jokic is. The 2 time mvp! But they know Kyle Kuzma, Austin Reaves etc.. Like he is humble, no ego, team first. Why not use those aspects of his character for a story. His game is so entertaining to watch. Yet up until recently, nobody had showcased him. What a wasted opportunity by the media. It’s so disappointing as an nba fan.
Reminds me of Tim Duncan
At the same time jokic himself don’t care about all that publicity someone like mikal bridges could use that attention
Wow what a good take because it goes to show the average fan really takes the mainstream media for their word
I’m in Denver now but I grew up in Chicago with MJ so it’s easier to see the difference. It doesn’t bother me so much the average joe doesn’t know Jokic. It’s that the “expert” talking heads don’t know him. “He can’t jump off a curb”. “Stat padding”. It’s lazy and wrong. He played 63 minutes in a 4ot playoff game 5 years ago. To make the passes, the post ups, the 3pt shot he makes is not athletic? Ignorant and arrogant.
Exactly! Why is his humbleness a negative thing? That's usually claimed to be a virtuous feature in a person yet we're not here celebrating when there is a superstar that actually is humble. He will go down as the most under-appreciated superstar ever.
Every true hoops fan I know, myself included, thinks it's good for basketball that teams OTHER than the Lakers, Warriors, etc, are in the finals and getting all the attention. The Nuggets winning and the Heat competing is SO good for the game.
It really is good for the league, especially considering the fact that there were multiple people bringing up how the ratings for a Nuggets-Heat Finals would suffer. If I'm being honest, I think NBA fans, especially casuals, should get used to seeing teams like Denver in the finals or at least making deep playoff runs every year because that era of Bron, Steph, KD, Kawhi, etc is slowly coming to an end, and I like all of those players but it's just the truth
@@flordiin yep
For real I'm a bulls fan nd im rooting for Denver and joker ...cuz every one disses that team
@Gregor Collins Agreed but JJ is part of the sports media and he's been involved in the silliness because he simps for current players, can't be objective, called former players firemen and plumbers, said Larry Bird was not a great 3 pt shooter, and countless other awful takes.
The only part I disagree with your statement is that the Nuggets & Heat are getting all the attention. Unfortunately they're not, we've been hearing about Dame trades, Ja suspension, Lebron retirement, Chris Paul waived, just as much as we have about the Nuggets & the Heat.
Whenever a Davis, Williamson, Lillard, even Doncic, the media makes it a point that they would so much bigger if they were on the Knicks, Lakers, etc.. instead of enjoying them trying to build their initial team. It's so boring that players and the media care about like 5 teams.
Speaking for Dallas, the media still hates the Mavs for beating LeBron in 2011. LeBron was their golden child, Wade was popular as well and when they teamed up, the league was rubbing their hands together. Then Dirk came along and spoiled the party and the media still hasn't gotten over it.
Part of the reason people don't know about Dame is because if you're in the East you'd have to stay up past midnight to watch see him play, understandable. But yeah they could talk about what he does for his team instead of always saying he needs to leave Portland. I swear Stephen A can't talk about players like Dame without saying they need to leave to goto the Knicks. I understand you're from NY but give it a break, we heard you the other 2 million times you said it.
@@cryptidian3530 SORRY CHARLIE I'M GOING TO USE MY COMMENT TO FLAG THE INTERNET TO YOU BEING A HYPOCRITE SOCIALLY!!!!
. YOU'RE COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE THE MEDIA TREATMENT OF THE 2011 MAVERICKS IS HYSTERICALLY HYPOCRITICAL BECAUSE IT'S MY ASSERTION THE MEDIA AND NOT THE MAVERICKS ACTUALLY BEAT THE HEAT; BECAUSE THE MEDIA WAS THE SPEARHEAD FOR CRITICISM OF LEBRON FOR DOING AN ORDINARY LIFE MOVE AS IF HE HAD COMMITTED A CRIME. AND THE GROUND SWELL OF HATRED BUILT UP FOR AN ORDINARY CITIZEN MAKING AN ORDINARY JOB DECISION WAS MANIACAL AND PSYCHOTIC AND NO HUMAN COULD FUNCTION NORMALLY ON A JOB UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS AND THAT'S WHY THEY LOST THAT CHAMPIONSHIP WITH LEBRON DRIBBLING THE BALL OFF HIS LEGS.
BECAUSE IT WAS MADE BY THE SAME MEDIA THAT YOU'RE CRITICIZING THAT IT WILL BE A HORRIBLE EVENT FOR THE MIAMI HEAT TO WIN THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SUCH A HYPOCRITE AND A CASUAL SOCIALLY BECAUSE IF YOU WANTED MORE EVIDENCE OF THAT WHEN LEBRON AND D WADE COUGHED TO SHOW HOW RIDICULOUS WAS MAKING EXCUSES AND PAMPERING DIRK NOWITZKI WHEN HE GOT SICK THE MEDIA JUMPED ON THAT OF HOW HORRIBLE IT WAS THAT THEY MADE FUN OF NO WIN SKI THE SAME MEDIA THAT YOUR CRITICIZING ,THAT'S WHY I'M EXPOSING YOU AS A SOCIAL HYPOCRITE AND MY COMMENT WILL SILENCE YOU FROM HERE ON IN, WHENEVER TALKING ABOUT THIS AGAIN AND YOU'RE SILENCE WILL BE AN ADMISSION THAT YOU'VE BEEN EXPOSED BECAUSE IF YOU REPLY AGAIN I WILL EMBARRASS YOU AGAIN GOTCHA!
INTRODUCING THE EVIDENCE EXHIBIT B SINCE 20:11 THE MAVERICKS HAVE ONE SQUAT! PROOF THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE WON IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Right@@cryptidian3530
JJ is one of the very few people in the mainstream media who constantly makes it a point to call out his peers and higher ups for failing the fans with how they cover sports. Big time respect 💯
It’s because they can’t hurt him. He’s rich. He doesn’t need ESPN or any of them. They cut him, and his audience follows him wherever he goes. He recognises this, and uses that power.
The NBA media fails for their small market fans tremendously.
The NBA media pushes who their overlords NIKE tells to push. Just wait, when Jokic gets his own shoe line, they will start talking about him more. Look at all the players they discuss way to much, all have NIKE deals. How many hundreds if not thousands of times have they either debated Lebrons legacy or Lebron vs MJ?, Its all about the shoes.
@@5IvanDrago5 Adidas has a lot of athletes under their umbrella too, many of them from smaller market teams. Dame, Mitchell, Trae Young are just a few. Great signature shoes too.
And consistently
@@5IvanDrago5 he will never get a shoe line, he got 2 mvps and no shoe line. I'll be getting a pair the moment he does.
@@daltonfarris I've got Zoom Freak 4s and Giannis Immortality 2s, and if Jokic gets his own line, I'm right there
The fact that jokic is somehow still underrated is scary to me. I didn’t even know he was. Maybe it’s the small market but he’s been doing his thing for years now so everybody should know
Tim Duncan won 5 NBA titles and is completely forgotten today. The media has always ignored the most quiet/humble small market athletes.
@@chrisolivo6591 I think about this often when they bring up best players of all time and Timmy never gets mentioned. I am sure he doesn't really care though.
@@natureboy6268 I think Hakeem is another forgotten player when they mention the greatest Centers. You hear Shaq, Shaq, Shaq, yet Olajuwon schooled him in the 95 Finals.
@@chrisolivo6591 yeah absolutely true. I will say Shaq is one of the first to give Hakeem his flowers whenever he has a chance though. Hakeem's post moves changed the game, game's just gone away from post play unfortunately. But damn his dream shake is probably the prettiest thing in basketball
@@natureboy6268 And Hakeem is #1 shot blocker in the history of the NBA. The TNT crew asked Shaq where he ranked as he thought he was top 5. He was #9 and even Kenny and Charles were surprised The Dream was #1. The guy was a beast on D too.
She answered everything but the question that was asked. Why the media ignores Jokic.
He is WHITE. She even mentioned DL... The is overhyped, and she talks how he is not appreciated.
She made it about women’s sports which is just not comparable because it’s an inferior product
@@ryanolson2308 Did you listen? she used WNBA to show how "character" of players is made more important than the actual sport in the NBA coverage. This year WNBA as unusually more covered because there was narrative about players.
@@ouicertes9764 yes I listened, the better question is can you read? The wnba is not comparable to the nba in any way so there’s zero reason to bring it up. Then you get JJ and his other host pandering about women’s sports the rest of the video. Saying “there was more buzz around the women’s final 4 than the men’s” when the men’s championship still had millions more viewers than the women’s despite being a terrible game?
@@ouicertes9764 I’m what universe is the wnba more covered, and what narrative are you talking about?
I remember ESPN's "Embrace Debate" marketing run, that's about when I thought it was official that sports media had looked at Skip and Stephen A and decided that that was the direction they wanted to go. I felt very failed
agree with this. I saw one of SAS guesting in one of the exNBa podcast. That's where i learned that he was the one who brought that style. Yeah, it definitely brought success, views, money into the show but in the long run, it damage the main product itself. Basketball
he felt very failed
@@pWoLiAnFeel better?
@@august6281 Basketball cannot be damaged by the media. The business of basketball, maybe, but the way celebrities talk about basketball has no effect at all on the game.
I don't remember the specifics of that, help me refresh my memory, if you don't mind.
Your interview with Dame was so enlightening for me, and I ended up doing a lot more research on him. He's my favorite player now, has been since that interview. ESPN, or whatever major presentation you want to call out, isn't giving me the awesome viewing experience that I get here. You. Let. People. Speak. But not just that. You let them pause so that their thoughts can be completed. The format you have is just better, and you're great at what you do. That helps, too. Interesting topic in this one.
The reason I agree that Jokic is the next Tim Duncan is because he has the potential to be an all time top 10 or top 5 great that nobody is talking about.
I'm exposing you is another victim of the media because you can't be another Tim Duncan until you've done what Tim Duncan did That's true of anything in life You're not a partner in a law firm until you become a partner in the law firm You're not the best salesman in the car dealership until you sold those number of cars so don't you dare ever put choker joker in the same breath as Tim Duncan who has more rings in in reality potentially that he could have fingers!!!! choker a joker hasn't got ONE got it? Get it!
Timmy is number 6 on my top 10..
If nobody is talking about him, why does he have 2 MVP trophies?
@@seanbell69 Americans need to get over themselves at this point honestly.. They have a good league that can br marketed globally at this point but 1 they need to get over the fact that most of the top dogs are not American anymore n thsts not cause of lack of talent its more of sense of entitlement and lack of work ethic..
2. Stop with the woke bs.. Social justice Champion? WTH is even that..
3. They have to move away from the 1 star drivem league u had 1 mj he did wonders for ur game n none had his pull since use ur platforms now to promote more players n more teams n people will come..
4 load management is a joke now.. Its gotten so out of hand that ur regular season is a complete joke..
5. Stop handing so much money to mediocre and unproven talent the more that players have to earn for what they have the hungrier they will become n its a win² for both sides..
@@seanbell69 Timmy had two MVP trophies as well and the only thing I remember people saying about it was that Kobe got robbed.
I appreciate this topic so much. I have been saying it for a while now. The NBA is changing rapidly and the National Media in general has not changed with it. It factor comes in many forms. I get the NBA has been made its butter by promoting stars and personalities. With the expansion and 4 of the NBAs best players being international you have to buck the trend that has been set from the past. Point Blank. You can have your super hero figures like Lebron, Ja, KD. But you can also have an everyman type figure like Jokic. The relatability he presents. Young people who have no hope whatsoever to be like Lebron or KD who is interested in Basketball. They could easily look up to a guy like Jokic and be hey maybe if I work hard enough I could 1 day become him its a lot more realistic. You have to accentuate the positives in the landscape. The media will have to be advocates for lesser known players and markets. Jokic and Nuggets are getting their flowers now but there was a lot kicking and screaming doing it. You can still be all about the legacy teams and players but dont neglect the rest of the league
Perfectly said ! I would like to add that I think Adam Silver has done a great job trying/implementing new things over the years, especially during covid. But that NBA & National Media should revisit how they intepret the league and make some changes
Jokic is 7foot
@@iiMOJA Yes I know but that isnt exactly what I meant. Obviously Jokic has traits that dont come very often. I am talking about more of what he represents. Hard Work, Perserverance and will to be the best you can possibly be. He is a guy who isnt the most athletic, isnt the fastest, cant jump the highest. What he does have though is the will and want to learn and get better. When you look at photos of him when he was a kid the first impression is there is no chance in hell that kid is ever going to make it to the NBA, Let alone be considered the best in the world. That is what people can relate to. The everyman character traits.
Weird question for you: Have you ever watched professional wrestling?
What makes it worse is people like SAS who complains he can’t go to LA for the finals. He doesn’t wanna go to other states or cities. I remember him complaining when the Bucks were in the finals. Us here in Milwaukee were so damn happy to be there and we were so enthusiastic and when he was in Fiserv, we booed him. So sorry you have to do your job and broadcast teams that are in the finals and make the league refreshing and new instead of the same old teams going to the finals.
And ratings for this finals is high. Hillarious that media thinks they know what people want
The media hangs on to old stars and certain franchises to the point its pathertic.
"The Knicks are one of the most storied franchises." Like smh it's just cause the media never shuts up about them, same with the Dallas cowboys, those teams have been bad or first round play off exits for 50 and 25 years, and they never shut up about them.
It's a losing game for fans who recognise that. I'm a huge LeBron fan but even I recognise that they cover him so much that it's to the detriment of the rest of the league. But when you comment on a LeBron post on ESPN or bleacher report Instagram or Twitter saying "Why are you always posting LeBron? I wish you posted other players more" all that does is drive up engagement on LeBron posts, causing them to post even more. It's one of the pitfalls of capitalist media. When revenue is the primary goal and the revenue is based on advertising, clicks will always be prioritised over quality. The consumer isn't respected as a human they're just a means for executives to get richer and richer.
Without even listening to a second of the video… Yes. That’s why people tune into local media and podcasts much more nowadays. People like JJ and Doris are a breathe of fresh air in the media
Lol your not failing real nba fans. We know that the media doesn't talk real basketball
That's kind of his point though. They're failing the casuals. Real fans appreciate the Nuggets, Kings, and other teams outside of just the big markets and most marketed superstars. Casual fans don't but could be open to learning about them if the media took some risk and did a better job of promoting them.
@@justinwebber5313 Ideally, it would be great if the coverage was more fair and informative. But they would have to fire the existing commentators first, because outside of JJ they mostly only know a guy is good if he is bigger and stronger and leaps higher. They will figure out how good Curry is never, even with four rings. Lillard is also a shorter guard so he cannot possibly be worth talking about. Jokic barely jumps and he is not fast so what would tell the blithering experts that he is great, besides the two MVPs...
Clueless people are not going to educate the casuals.
truth
I am from Brazil and my Friends know about Ja Morant but not about Jokic. Drama is the fuel of the media
Jokic actually plays BB.... They don't care BB, but their agenda.
I appreciate Tommys bravery of talking about swag, not everyone wants to awknowledge swag
She made an excellent point that the media tells casual fans which teams and players are important, and that’s who they go watch. So if ur not promoting the kings or nuggets, or wnba games, then why would fans go watch them? Not even the so called “experts” are paying attention to them
I don't think I've heard this point talked about but correct me if I'm wrong. I actually think Nuggets Heat finals is better for the NBA than Lakers Celtics would have been. Sure the ratings for these finals would have been a bit higher, but Lakers and Celtics are always going to have high ratings. Next season, the Nuggets and Heat are going to have great ratings for all 82 games they play and much higher than they would have had if they didn't have these postseason runs. The Lakers are gonna have great ratings regardless and making the finals isn't really going to have an effect on next seasons ratings for them.
the rating are higher than expected....the numbers should force some alterations for NBA executives moving forward
The Heat had a great run last year and were a Jimmy Butler three point away from making the finals. However, they still weren't covered or talked about much this year imo.
I promise you that Miami and Denver will both be out of the top 8 highest rated teams next season. Both will drop straight back to obscurity until next year's playoffs and we can go back to talking about big stars going to big cities.
@@seanbell69 haha....promises promises...lol
Three things. 1) American sports coverage is emotion and narrative driven. Look at how they cover soccer versus other countries. 2) American television is massively lucrative and has far more commercials and sponsorships, so you need eyeballs. 3) America is incredibly insular, they don’t want a foreigner winning. Giannis doesn’t get love. Now Jokic doesn’t. Most Americans don’t care for Ohtani in baseball. They want another Larry Bird or Magic Johnson type figure they can aspire to be like.
I blame the Angels for the lack of love for Ohtani
Joker has the potential to be a tremendous role model...unless there is some atrocity back home they are keeping a lid on...He is by all measures an exceptional human....naturally humble and soft spoken....family man. Traditional Values.....guess that is naturally anti-media way to be....idk....crazy
For the most part, I agree, but Giannis does get love bc he's an extrovert and has a compelling "coming to America" story. I imagine Jokic's journey out of Serbia is also interesting, but he's so reluctant to talk about himself, they can't milk it for ratings or commercials.
@@candilubk Jokic isn't underrated or underappreciated. He is a 2 Time MVP and almost won a 3rd by a hair. He happens to be very reticent and reclusive (He doesn't even have a social media account). He is like Tim Duncan and that is absolutely fine, but guys like Kyrie Irving, Giannis, Lebron, Curry, Embiid etc.. actually, engage with their fans. Jokic doesn't have any sponsorships or endorsements, and doesn't even have a signature shoe, he isn't marketable, because he refuses to open up.
@@Supersupremegang Yep. He just does not want to be a human cash cow taken advantage of.
I live and work(moving business) in NYC and often have people looking for job. In June of 2012 i got a phone call from a young man. His name was Nemanja and he was looking to make some money. Upon meeting him, and both of us being tall, we immediately strike conversation about basketball. He told me that he played little bit for some small college in Detroit, but also that he spent a lot of time with none other than Darko. That's Darko Milicic! Let's just say he had a great time there. After asking him about basketball future he simply said that he's not good enough, but very modestly, he said I HAVE A YOUNGER BROTHER WHO MIGHT BE GOOD. Two years later NIKOLA JOKIC was drafted by Denver.
she again dont talk about jokic or nuggets , she talk about the kings and damian lillard wtf doris
Watch the whole podcast!
Jokic also doesn’t like the media. He probably doesn’t want to do commercials or huge sponsorships
Google makes commercial with Embiid and Giannis and chooses some random Serbian instead of Jokic. They don't promote him coz he is crazy good, he is the league now annd he is WHITE.
@@nikolayjerev9285 Yes Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers are having a tough time getting recognition 🙄
There's more attention on Zion and Ja than the finals if we're being 💯
Ja is a gun owner, zion fucked an e thot, washed cp3 might be released could he go to the lakers???😮(like that does anything but gives them 1 game). Those are the headlines and nuggets win finals that's below the fold.
Lol. Thats the contrast. Hundred.
Media has to do a better job covering small market teams. If you watched the bubble you knew Denver was a couple role players away from contention. Jokic and Murray were doing the job still the media treated it like a fluke. Then Jamal got hurt and media ignored Denver then they got Aaron Gordon and it wasn't until the playoffs started that I saw how much extra muscle he was packing. Bruce Brown had heard of him from a friend who watched games on league pass but now I know he's a contender for sixthman next year for sure. The Kings got notoriety because they were 3rd in the standings for a long time above a bunch of good teams but still seen as a fluke too due to medias lack of coverage. Media needs to make a show covering from bottom to top something like silver linings in subpar teams. Maybe a show following rookies and sophomores and 3rd years. I think it's also a lack of creativity.
Sadly ESPN will only care about certain players and certain markets. Ohtani is literally the Babe Ruth of this MLB era and they rarely talk about him. They talk about Lebron’s son more than they talk about Jokic on SportsCenter sometimes.
Murray and mpj were injured for 1 and 2 years, and espn has acted like the nuggets were getting bounced from the playoffs at full strength, and against the lakers mpj was 22 Murray was 23 and joker was 25. They were babies in the wcf. This kings team is gonna end up getting the shaft, they aren't gonna get talked about they will probably be second in the west for the next few years, but in the shadow of Denver they are gonna end up a very underrated squad (they are just trying to build the nuggets in Sacramento with less talented players)
It's a lack of interest, my man. The problem is that nobody WANTS to learn about subpar teams. I never understand why people disrespect casual fans for not wanting to know every player on every team's roster. Some fans only care about the big teams, and I don't see anything wrong with that.
The teams are worth billions of dollars, they should be able to handle their own PR. If ESPN is making the Kings look bad, then the Kings should spend some of their money representing themselves.
@@chrisolivo6591bring the NBA back to NBC plz
ESPN in particular has done an absolute disservice to the NBA and its fans this season. They have been difficult to watch during these finals. It's very clear that only a handful of analyst/reps like JJ, Malika, Jefferson have been following the game recently and show an actual passion for basketball. You can have better quality and more nuanced perspectives from your next door neighbor rather than mainstream sports media lately.
LoL Malika???😅😅😅
@@maceel313lol
@@maceel313 yeah she’s awful
@@maceel313 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
JJ actting as if his employer didn’t allowed all the slandering and racist allegations about Jokers mvps.
Its one thing to not cover a team or a player. But to go the other way and slander their image? A complete joke
💯 agree, every time I turn on ESPN or FS1 it’s always about the Lakers and the Knicks on repeat about this, that, what happened, who do they need to trade for, blah blah blah.
Of course they did and it was embarrassing but it’s been that way for decades and got even worse since Skip Bayless’s, SAS & Nick Wright’s of the world have become popular.
Not sure why Doris brought up Dame. Dame has been way more popular and covered compared to Jokic.
JJ Redick is the sports media trailblazer that we’ve been asking for for a very long time now. I love how he calls out his own employer on their failures. And to answer the question, yes, the media has failed us for our entire lives. What I don’t understand is why Doris didn’t say anything about the Nuggets or Jokic. For some reason, she brought up women, Lillard and the Kings. That made no sense at all.
Doris Burke having a job fails NBA fans.
Yes.... And it's capped the ability for the NBA to grow IMO
Not only that the higher-ups demand shows to only talk about the big teams, it's a fact that a lot of NBA media people have the goal of "trying to generate the most engagements" so they'll act and or say stupid things just to get discussed about, and it kinda works.
And sometimes they're just downright ignorant / don't do their homework to begin with.
Perkins with his race take, Skip being Skip, Mark Jackson not voting Jokic, even Inside the NBA's Shaq and Barkley (and I love Shaq and Chuck) sometimes misspelling player names or even not knowing what team a player is on, Nick Wright being a dummy, there's so much instances of questionable NBA media people being given a platform yet they're able to stay on that platform because they generate clicks and views, it's super annoying.
Yes, I already call them ESPN clowns
Just remember that the NBA doesn’t have complete control for how media outlets cover the league. There are certainly parameters in place per their CBA but it’s Disney and Warner Bros who own ESPN and TNT, and making these bad executive decisions.
I feel like Ja is doing all that stuff to constantly be in the media. I feel like the nba told him to do it honestly
You can thank Skip and Kendrunk "Perc"ins for that
I haven’t watched NBA games in over 4 years until this playoffs. Nor have I watched media coverage of sports, always the same. I heard about Jokic and it got me interested. More I watched him play, I got hooked. I’m sick of the media’s adoring coverage of legacy teams, even in baseball. I hate how media and analysts always favor Lakers and Celtics or Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox. That’s why a lot of us fans love Jokic and Nuggets. It’s good for sports.
I’ll never understand why JJ isn’t a WAY bigger part of shaping the NBA narrative than he is. Having to deal with the, “what has happened to this game I love?” clowns when the “I am a steward of this game and everyone who participates in it…” crowd is sitting right here in front of us the whole time is incomprehensibly frustrating.
He’s been gaining steam but unfortunately it’s mostly ppl over 45 controlling the narratives which is stupid
Hmm ... Take a pill, sonny
I feel like Players with no Ego like Tim Duncan Hakeem Dirk amd Jokic are always underappreciated bybthe Media and Casuals for jist doing their job and winning gamrs for Basketball
the most disgusting thing to me about nba media is they want wannabe thugs, criminals, and flashy guys that don’t win anything over a family man who is humble and a generational talent.
huh?
@@TMFxROCKJa Morant recently?
If they would stop obsessing about Lebron and Brady and talk more about Jokic and Ohtani.
Its easy answer, they simply refuse to make new players headlines. The more you talk about a player and bring them to light to the causal fan base they will come. But how can you do that when every segment is about LA and how they were fighting to be a playin team all season.
If Jokic was american, trust me the media would cover Denver
Black.
Not necessarily. Luka is a media sensation. The difference is Luka's game is flashier. That's what makes him and certain players more exciting to watch.
The media has not had the respect of real sports fans for like a while. Everything feels fake and a lot of the people talking about sports have no business there. The other day i saw a poll from espn and it said something like " did Denver had an easy road to the championship" and the poll listed the seed of the teams that they faced. Its stupid.
Any smart business focuses oil their main product and growth opportunities, 'other' teams and players that are playing great or playing in an exciting way are those growth opportunities. The NBA media, in general, does not push these opportunities.
I only started following the Nuggets because I was able to watch the bubble playoffs, as I was stuck at home. If it wasn't for that, I barely would've known about the up-and-coming team. A smart media organisation would've been pumping them up so at least their games against the 'big market' teams would take a decent level of hype and draw in new fans.
When Doris talks NBA.....i click!!!!!
Comparing small market teams to women’s basketball is just so absurd, it’s apples and oranges. Small market teams still have players just as good as these big market teams, women’s basketball is simply a worse product. “There was more buzz around the women’s final four than the men’s” yet the men’s game still had millions more viewers? Come on guys, the wnba will never be successful like the nba it’s just not the same and everyone knows it
Sports media thanks to the internet and CZcams has changed so much…just in my lifetime. If your favorite team wasn’t the home team.. it was tough to get any analysis or any idea what was happening many times.
I want the NBA back to NBC completely
Denver is in the Mountain time zone and doesn't fit ESPN and TNT time slots. NBA TV does cover the Nuggets and Jazz but NBA TV is for the hard core fans.
Facts are most of the country thinks LA is a cesspool and couldn't care less about the Lakers. The media is just foolish.
Nah the Lakers lebron was 🔥 it had Twitter on a blaze and every laker video on nba CZcams was getting 5 million views every game.
The problem with the media is that they aren't really interested in basketball they only want headlines and highlights
I think east coast bias also has to be factored into this, unless you’re LA or GS. No one on the east coast is really gonna stay up and watch the late games that are televised.
The media focuses on drama because that is what the public wants. Drama draws attention and money. Look at the news. News doesn't care about right/wrong. They care about stories that draw in viewers. Viewers means revenue/profit. When it comes to sports the media NEEDS drama athletes so there's something to talk about 24/7. They hate "boring" athletes because you can't discuss them 24/7. Quality is no longer sought after by the media OR THEIR AUDIENCE.
I change channels when the SAME teams are shown. I love the under dog. FYI been watching bball for over 60 yrs
I don’t watch mainstream media much anymore , I watch more podcasts about nba , Twitter , CZcams .
Wow I wasn’t expecting convo go that way 😂
I fuckin love JJ.
Just like, no matter if I disagree with him n' stuff.
I love how passionate and "non-diplomatic" he gets. Not afraid to just show it how he feels etc.
Keep it up even just in terms of being a personality.
“How did the media fail the fans as it comes to the Joker and the Nuggets”
Doris: idk but women’s sports and the WNBA hasn’t progressed to were it should be.
Are the media personalities this stupid or are they just so detached from reality that they only care about pushing their narratives.
Joker and the Nuggets excellence gets ignored… women must affected by it. Jeez.
Game should be able to recognize game..
Hiding their lack of knowledge about the actual game by covering a handful big market teams narrative based on some stats/moments/interviews.
Football sports shows (even soccer or hockey ones) are mostly more enjoyable than NBA one's bc they're talking about the game, teams systems, players habilities and not only focusing on narratives or post-season predictions. The reason why fans prefers to listen to former players is bc their want to learn and better their understanding of the game (bc we actually wanna pay attention to details) in order to appreciate the sport and players (throughout their careers) even more.
As I fan this has frustrated me for years being a Blazers fan. The Lakers and Celtics would get all the coverage , all the attention, ALL THE CALLS!!! And it drove me nuts. My Laker fan friends thought I was crazy. And I told them back 2002 that games were fixed to favor big market teams. Now evidence had surfaced to support that. There's even evidence of the draft being rigged back in the day. Where the league wanted the Knicks or other big markets to get the top draft picks. That's why I can appreciate when teams like Spurs or Rockets or Nuggets or Bulls with MJ come along
😂😂😂 so bulls with mj didn’t get all the attention foh
Bulls haven't gotten much since he left. Until last dance came out😋
@@mikefrahm1577 mvp Derrick rose and I live in Chicago so I know
Doris is spot on JJ, the average person uses basketball simply as light entertainment and doesn't give a s*** about detailed analysis or deep understanding of the rosters and the league. But in today's world w/ cable TV, local sports radio and CZcams channels like your own, the deeper fans of the game have plenty of opportunity to get a broad, intelligent understanding of what is going on.
Does the media sometimes focus on the wrong players/miss compelling stories? Sure, undoubtedly.
Just be thankful you cover a sport like basketball, with smaller teams in a more player-centric game.
I would think the general solution would be to talk most about the teams who are competing for the playoff during the year. All those teams play winning basketball , that generally should be compelling, and makes the playoff less about teams that come left field because the media never covered them. Teams tanking would get less coverage and have more incentives to be better. The problem is most media only ever talk about the history and records of the game and to little about the actual ball game.
The problem is within US media and their agenda. Every basketball fan outside the States is familiar with Jokić and his game. I mean, the NBA has been global thing for many years but somehow, people from the league "failed" to notice that.
One day ESPN will realize that CZcamsrs are doing a better job covering sports than they are.
The media doesn't fail laker fans.. only NBA fans
Yeah they have been for a while now why is that even a actual question
It depends where an individual is getting their NBA information and opinions from. The media are certainly not doing the NBA many favors these days, but "NBA Twitter" is out of control and has become a hotbed of narratives and agendas. It's essentially become a contest of who can have the worst possible "hot take" on any given day.
Greetings. Redick, you are correct. The league has 30 teams. But, for certain media, including some podcasts, there are fewer than 10. On the other hand, there are around 510 players, but only less than a quarter are mentioned in the same podcasts and print media. I know that a large part of those of us who are interested in knowing about the state of the league do not tune in and lose interest in this type of coverage. In my particular case, I do not sponsor this type of media.
Nuggets fan all my life here and have been illegally streaming the games for the last 4 years since the owner of the nuggets/ Avs and Comcast can't agree on terms. Very very difficult to watch the games in Colorado. NBA TV doesn't show the local games so we get to see 5-10 regular season games per year on TV (only when we play California/ Boston/ new York etc) with biased commentators like Mark Jackson.
Y'all started a pretty interesting conversation, thanks!
One thing i always come back to is that some teams are just more fun to watch than others. I was a Lakers fan during the 80's ("showtime"). Millionaires flying thru the air, what could be better? But then in the postseason they'd run into some plodding, defense-first Eastern conference team who'd just try to shut them down (instead of out-fly them). Sometimes that was really disappointing, entertainment-wise.
This year Denver was brilliant, no argument, but a little bit stoic to watch. I know Jokich is an amazingly complete player, but minimal charisma imho. The announcers would try to highlight some of his great plays, but it came across as pretty dry. It's largely a "chemistry" thing (like so many things in life), so i get the problem from a business point of view.
In the 90's i (a male) and a (male) buddy used to catch a lot of the Stanford women's games at Maples Pavilion. Tara Vanderveer had them them playing such beautiful basketball it was a joy to watch. Nobody flying thru the air, but no bad shots, a lot of great passes, some high basketball iq teamwork on display for years! We preferred their games to the men's at that time (and the Warriors were in the doldrums at that point). That made a huge impression on me, just like the 80's Lakers but for different reasons. In both cases the team was really fun to watch (it *is* entertainment at the end of the day).
Doris, you rock! You were the first (maybe only) female announcer that i could listen to without constantly thinking about "that's a woman!" I'm a dinosaur, i admit. But you're one of my favorite commentators!
"The media hates jokic and is underrated." The media gave him two MVPs and almost a third one. I like jokic but this just feels like the yearly dunk on the media. Every year it's the same narrative. "Did you know that the media didn't believe in this team?!"
"People aren't tuning in to hear how smart you are about the game." Would somebody PLEASE tell that to Stan Van Gundy and Mark Jackson. I watch all games they call with my thumb on the mute button, as do most of my friends.
Why are they painting Jokic a victim? He’s a winner.
I witnessed the league’s clear agenda and who their mouthpieces are.
Media focuses on the drama and narratives rather than the game itself.
That’s typical espn/abc…let’s bring the nba back to nbc and they’ll focus on the game
Doris is probably my favorite play by play NBA caller - and Hubie even in his last years - she just sees the game and rarely ever misses a beat - and I watch all the games - her and the guy who calls Sacramento games Marc Jones are money 💴 in the bank
Mark jones?
Doris is a consummate pro and knows her stuff. I'd rather listen to her commentary on a basketball game more than most out there today...
She is fake af.
Thank you Doris for having a thoughtful balanced answer...
Giving Historic balance along with living in the present.
Not just giving lazy Hot Take answers
JJ got an interview with the goat 🐐 man I need to go watch the whole thing now!!!
adam silver finally growing a backbone with the new cba rules
I think when it comes to NBA fans you have have those who are knowledgeable of the game and enjoy it from that vantage point and then you have fans, probably more in number, who just want to be entertained. Everyone likes the players who can dunk, or someone with good handle or a great blocker. People gravitate toward the players who offer great entertainment value. Sure, you can push certain teams in the media but if people don't see the entertainment value, they're not going to watch.
Why is she talking about damian lillard? Everyone kniws him
I have serious questions whether the "analysts" on the morning shows are even watching anyone when they aren't playing the Lakers or the GSW.
I saw this phenomenon in tennis. They only covered Americans at the exclusion of top international players. Often replaying an Andy Roddick match when Federer was playing. When Federer and Nadal were dominating everything then they had to change how they covered tennis
National media don’t care. They talk about lakers Celtics Knicks cowboys Brady LeBron because it gets most views. That’s all they care about. This was a great discussion
I generally enjoy Doris . However, to compare lack of Jokic coverage, who is one of the best players in the world, to women’s basketball, when the best players can’t even compete with the top high school boys, is disingenuous. People watch to see excellence.
this exact the same thing happening in my country for soccer. 3 of the 4 best teams are in Istanbul / turkey and national media is only covering them cause their centers are also in Istanbul . Teams/ players of smallcities do not get coverage cause it would be so much effort for media to go and hunt for news 1000m miles while they can do that 15 min car ride distance they are just lazy.
It's funny I was watching cool runnings the other day and talking about how the casual fan follows the narrative the commentators create. If they are saying these players are a joke the fans will believe it. If they are saying hey these guys are not as talented they don't have as much money and training it's soooo impressive they are here competing. The fans will follow that narrative.
The main reason the WNBA will always struggle is because you'll never see Vince Carter posterizing Alonzo Mourning or Ja Morant throwing down a tomahawk dunk. Lisa Leslie dunked in a game and they thought people would be impressed. Fans tune in for excitement and if you can't deliver that they won't watch.
Never really got the hate for Doris Burke. She's good at her job and has always done well promoting/reporting on the NBA.
She only ever talks about LeBron and the lakers
She thinks the WNBA is a compelling product. That says it all for me.
I hope nba is like the same as during 80's
The NBA is VERY HEAVILY CHOREOGRAPHED. they want super stars and a story (controversial if possible) & pretty much nothing else matters. It's a very very top heavy league. a shame as so many great players & stories to tell. Hopefully JJ & Tommy can tip the balance back the other way. 🙏
This just in .... Kendric Perkins awarded the Most Valuable Analyst award for the 2022-2023 season.
He beat season long favorite J.J. Reddic after bringing to light that the previous 172 winners were all white.
I cannot believe that clown still has his job after that
It's *Redick and you sound so salty 😂
@@BlakaveliX Sometimes my k key doesn't work. Must be from the salt from all my tears. Missed it in Kendrick also. In addition to that, my d key sometimes sticks 😂 I do know how to spell Brown, unlike some Denver players.
Perk is a Bell Curve employee.....shareholders should be demanding better
@@mja4wp Perkins is beneficial for ESPN because even his race baiting has you talking about it and crying months after it happened.
Also up to this day, This podcast never invited a Spurs player while he is still in the Spurs roster. Derrick White, Patty Mills and Demar Derozan got invited AFTER they parted ways with the Spurs. Please invite guys on the Spurs if you really want to address this issue on the media. Jeremy Sochan maybe is the most interesting currently. Keldon Johnson who is a 29th overall pick that made team USA. Maybe Zach Collins’ revitalized career could be interesting.
Jokic is a great player and very talented with versatility basketball traits, honestly he’s one of the best overall talent we have in the NBA right now, but the media doesn’t care about underdogs are teams that have no controversy over there head but we need more fans to speak up and tell them what we want The #NBA is literally one type away
The media toxic against “NBA players” until Jokic so no one really cares. It is a sad truth.
Media HAS BEEN failing fans, especially ESPN.🤷🏻♂️
JJ, this is a great convo, Great work. Don't let this go. Look at the NFL. You don't have to be completely reliant on stars to sell a league. You can sell the shield.
But I will say this: the women's sports stuff is NOT about misogyny. It's literally that people only have so much time. We don't watch G-League basketball. Why? It's just not the best of the best. In sports, men are simply bigger, faster, stronger. I'm not saying that I don't respect these amazing athletes. I'm also not saying I wouldn't enjoy a WNBA game. I would happily go and enjoy it. But I only have so much time. My life is busy. I'm going to watch the tennis & golf Majors, the NBA, the Premier League (not MLS) and Champions League and the NFL (not XFL).
As long as the media keeps moving in the direction of platforming the Stephen A and Skip types this will never change if they pushed more analysts instead of hot take artists fans would be more knowledgeable about the game
This is the reason I now exclusively consume media like Thinking Basketball, and other analytically minded YT channels and podcasts, because they focus on the game and break it down rather than, "Who had the better tasting jock strap LeBron or MJ?"