767X - The Boeing 757 Replacement?
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 08. 2023
- How to replace the Boeing 757 and 767 has been one of the most talked about topics over the years, and when it was revealed there was a 767-XF study to make the 767 a more efficient plane and extend its life by re-enging the series, alarm bells started ringing. What happened to this study, why didn't it release and would it have been the perfect 757 replacement?
🔔 Subscribe to GlobeTrotting: bit.ly/SubscribeGlobeTrotting
🖥️ Visit our website: djsaviation.net
CONNECT WITH US
🐦 Twitter: / djsaviation
👥 Facebook: / djsaviation
💬 Discord: / discord
💻 Patreon: / djsaviation
BUSINESS ENQUIRIES
📧 Email: contactdjsaviation@gmail.com
CHECK OUT THE PODCAST
🎙️ Spotify: bit.ly/DjsAviationPodcast
🎙️ Apple: bit.ly/DjsPodcastApple
SUBMIT VIDEO IDEAS
✍️ Form - bit.ly/SubmitVideoIdeas
===============================
ℹ️ MORE INFORMATION ℹ️
creativecommons.org/
Licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0
- www.flightglobal.com/boeing-r...
- Boeing CZcams Channel
- Airbus Mediaroom
- www.flickr.com/photos/aero_ic...
Video written by
🎵 OUTRO TRACK 🎵
Krys Talk - Fly Away [NCS Release]
Music provided by NoCopyrightSounds.
• Krys Talk - Fly Away |...
Free Download / Stream ncs.io/flyaway
#aviation #news #flight #aircraft #avgeek #airplane #airlines #airport #planespotting #airbus #boeing
You don't hear many people say this, but the 767 is my favorite jet!
I'm rooting for a 757X since that's the market which needs to be filled. We have the 787, which in my opinion, replaces the 767.
You can stop rooting. The 757 is long dead and not even an option for X. It was discontinued now 20 years ago.
And I am sure the tooling has been long gone too!
@@michaelmichniak127 This long ago of course it is. Boeing 757 fanboys wanting what's never gonna happen.
@@johniii8147 Yup only change is a 767X since its still in production for the military and freighters
@@user-op6rv5rs7o It's not being considered either anymore. Considered and rejected. It's 1970s design and the new engines added weight and would require significant wing changes. Wasn't worth it for either Boeing or GE for maybe a couple of hundred sales at most.
The original 767X is what is the 777 today, it was the initial protect name for the 777. The 767X that was talked about a few years ago is a completely different story.
The A321XLR in no way compares to the 767(-300) in any category. We are talking about 210 vs 160 Passengers 2-class configuration, 90t vs 50t empty weight, 11.000km vs 8.500km still air range. These two are at least one size category apart.
A 767X would not hurt A321XLR sales, it would hurt 787-9 and A330-900 sales, and non existing 787-8 and A330-800 sales. Most airlines already settled with the 787 as a not 100% direct replacement, a few with the A330-900. A 767X would certainly do better on shorter missions (up to 7-8 hours) than the 787 and A330neo, but as most airlines already took what is available there is no real incentive for Boeing (and Airbus) to put money into a new airplane that size, at least not in the foreseeable future. Airbus has the same hole in their lineup, between the A321 and A330.
The right time for a 767X launch was ten years ago, the ship has sailed.
Challenging the XLR would be a 757X. But for several reasons this airplane will not happen.
Airbus has no gap in their line up... The A321XLR has already filled it... Boeing does have that gap because of the cancelation of the 767X.
You are correct. That's how we got the 767-4. Hence the reason it's such a rare bird but the newest passenger variant 767s in the sky .
@@ericsantiago4442 Airbus has almost exactly the same gap as Boeing. Size difference between the A321 and A330-800 is almost identical to the difference between the MAX10 and 787-8. Range wise the gap is a bit bigger, but this is the market segment of the XLR which is not as big as many think.
@@antonyh37 true, the 767-400 as to compete with the A330-200, but it lacked range.
A 767x would be possible because they have continued to produce the 767 for cargo and military applications.
The 767-2c was FAA certified in the last 10 years and became the basis for the kc46.
The 2c is a 767-200er with the wing of 767-300f and a glass cockpit. The GeNx-2b from the 747-8 has a smaller fan than the 787 version so would be an easier upgrade with a well proven reliable engine. Boeing has the landing gear from the 767-400 which is taller (had to accommodate the stretch of the 400 to reduce tail strikes) so that should give the additional clearance for the GENX-2b larger fan.
In taking the 2c back to a passenger variant, place the main cabin door just ahead of the wing like the 767-300 / 400, 757 and 787.
If you are going to make anything larger than 767-200, you already have the 787-8 which is the length of 767-300. The 767-200 is comparable in length to 757-200 and the capacity of the 767-200 would give airlines that 175-235 seat plane (depending on layout) combined with the 200ER range (6500 nm) and you can cover East Asia to Hawaii, Hawaii to all corners of the USA, USA to South America and USA to Europe.
This plane could operate using smaller gates (code d) compared to the a330, 787, a350 or 777. Add in using LD2 containers to reduce cargo handling labor and turn times.
Another terrific video, DJ. Cheers.
Could you talk in a video about the 787-9ER and -10ER (or "IGW" as its also called) :)
Is 787 still having problems on A/C Airflow’s oh Comando Cabin dusting & take into car that matters as a Safety ones.
There's no market left for a 767x. In its current lineup, Delta has ~220 seats on their A330-200 and ~215 seats on their 767-300ERs. Logically, Delta would buy the A338 (they have the 339) as its the same size as the 332.
American has retired their 767s with the 787-8 as replacement. United has announced 787-8s as the replacement. I don't see Delta going for the 787 so maybe they would be the only major airline to want one.
Low sales for the 787-8 and almost no sales for the A330-800 suggest that this segment of market is not very desirable for airlines.
UA hasn't announced the 787-8 as their remaining 767 replacements. UA actually hasn't been a big fan of the 8 with only 12 in the fleet that word old CO orders. They huge 787 order they placed is very unspecified on the quantity of each of type. They basically have 12-18 months prior to delivery to let Boeing know on the specific variant.
Boeing did make a number of upgrades to the 767 with the KC-46 program. A lot of it borrowed from the 777. So some new engines and a few more tweaks could certainly make for a nice update. However I'm not sure these updates would really fill a capacity gap. All these updates would probably push the most effective variant to be the 767-400 size (kind of like how the neo has pushed the A321 to be the optimal choice). This plane would be similar in capacity to the 787-8. So why buy a 767-4X when you could get a more optimal 787-8? Unless the 767-4X is more affordable with better availability? Or could they size an engine and develop updates such that the 767-2 and -3 versions are more optimal? If so that might fill some capacity gap.
They looked at the idea and rejected it. It's a 1970 design and sticking on new engines didn't really add much. And no it doesn't have have new engines. Same GE engines available on the passenger version.
Boeing made a huge mistake not retooling the 757 10 years ago. Probably too late now.
It was actually now 20 years ago the Boeing made the decision to discontinue the 757. They proposed other versions and the airlines simply didn't want it. Despite the fanboys around the 757 it was never that successful overall. In 30 years on the market it only managed 1000 in sales and most of those were North American specific. It was also expensive for Boeing to make.
@@johniii8147Even if it would take a while to develop, it would be worth it for boeing. The A321XLR may be more efficient, but it can’t climb as fast. This means that it can’t serve some of the airports that the 757 could.
Huge mistake for the market as it has become. Nothing to do with a fanboy.
@@boondockduane The XLR is actually not "huge" market. They have sold around 600 uncontested. Boeing estimated the space at around 1000 and seeming about right. Airbus had the advantage of it could relatively cheaply do the upgrades to the 321 ( though still in the billon dollars) Boeing would have to spend many billions on a clean sheet and split the market so doesn't seem to make business case sense.
@@johniii8147 just talking about the narrow body market, that is all
Why aim for 40k, when you deserve 50k. Love your videos.
100k
I love the 767 with the 767-400 being my favorite jetliner. However, it is the inimitable 757 what they need to work on. A Dreamliner-like 757 would be the great follow up Boeing had to have built since day one. The 767 has the 787 as its replacement already, while the 757 is in a class all by itself with no replacement. THAT is what Boeing needs to work on. Of course, a new 737 is also needed, but thats another story. Good job mate, great subject for discussion by us plane nuts. Thank you.
Surprised that Boeing didn’t just take the wings from the 787, newer engines, and attach them onto the frame of the existing 757. Dimension wise, the 787 is the 767 with a wider cabin. But they already have the airframe from the 737 Max 10. Don’t call it a 737, call it the 757-8, taking inspiration from the 787. The flying pencil returns, range of 5500nm, passenger capacity of up to 295. So it has a single aisle, 40-50 rows of seats, good short field performance, and bridges the gap between the 787 and 737 max 10. Then its easy to just stretch the design into the 757-9 with 6000nm of range and the 757-10 with 5400nm of range but 340 pax capacity. 10 hour flights from Western Europe can basically make it all the way to the west coast of the US
Boeing needs to do something to fill the gap if the 57/67….oh wait…it’s too late.
Indeed, It IS too late. Unfortunately. A B757X would have been a big success if available for delivery from 2018.
@@petergajda3732 There was no available engine ng engine available for it in that time frame.
Must be a slow news day.
Wouldn’t a 787F make more sense?
It's something they are considering, but some technical challenges to overcome. The barrel composite structure is challenging for a F to put in cargo doors.
Please, anything to get rid of the 757!!!! ASAP
That's a very heady statement, the idea that one aircraft would succeed over another based on relationships.
While this can be said about certain aircraft, nothing could be further from the truth when it comes to the 757/A321.
Majority of A321 customers are new customers, ones who've never operated a 757, with a small number of airlines ordering the A321 simply because there's no replacement for the 757.
I can say with utmost confidence that, if Boeing builds a new, clean sheet midsize aircraft, it will definitely do better than the A321. We've seen what has happened when you compare the A330neo to the 787.
Making such a statement as a matter of fact...not cool. Airlines will always prefer the most modern, cost effective aircraft no matter their relationship with a planemaker.
Just focus on getting your 777x certified Boeing. Your airline customers are still waiting.
I would prefer a 757X because I love the flying pencil, BUT, since Boeing shutdown that line and the 767 is still running with the US Air Force tanker, the 767X is feasible. The 767 is very comfortable, but isn’t that what the 787-8 is for? Long live the flying pencil!
maybe 767 with CFM Rise engines? Edit: just read the CFM Rise won't be ready until the mid 2030s 😥
Yeah that's not a viable option. If the Rise ever happens that 10+ years down the line.
I liked the 757, I’ve heard that pilots loved it and referred to it as the Ferri of airplanes.
Can you do more on the Caribbean aviation region
Great idea -- but too late.
GEnx-2B is already suitable for.......
As Boeing still produces 767 airframes, it would be a possible low-risk project with an instant customer appeal. Oh, wait, Boeing actually refused an approach from United to roll over their existing -300ER fleet with new examples. There's no chance though, Boeing is no longer able to manage their programs.
There's someone at Boeing that can't stand the thought of a refreshed 767 or 757 for that matter. It's my guess is that they are given to incrementalism suggesting that a reengine project needs to include new wings, a more modern flight deck, maybe even a reconfigured fuselage. Never mind that this is exactly what they've done with the 737 which has been a successful project. If they get started with a Middle Market offering ten years from now they will be a niche player. They will join auto maker AMC which made fine cars but lost a step and fell behind. Just get engaged Boeing. I can't stand seeing you get so badly eclipsed.
The early 90s 767-X become the 777.
Probably, but I think that became the 767-400. Airlines said no to it, they instead wanted a new design. So B came up with the B777. Kinda like A with its new A330 that airlines said no to, and they ran back to the design studio and came back up with the A350. That's an Airbus plane I like.
@@cellpat2686No, the 777 came before the 767-400.
The 767x would've also helped Boeing's relationship with GE. Given how unpopular the 747-8 was, GE must be thinking that their GENX-2B could've gotten a better ROI. A 767x with those exact same engines would've helped the ROI of the -2B
Given huge sales for the 787 GE is just fine with Boeing. They have more than 60% of the market on wing with the 787. Also don't forget GE is 50% partner in CFM that supplies all the engines for the 737 program. They also have been the sole engine supplier for the 777 program for many years now.
@@johniii8147 I’m talking about the ROI for a particular engine variant. The 787 GENX engine, as well as the engines for 777x, MAX, and 777-300ER are slightly different than the 747-8 engine
@@Blank00 Not enough to matter in the case 747-8. Very minor motications vs what's on the 787. GE did just fine on it. There were built on same assembly lines etc. Didn't really add much to GE cost.
Boeing will just stretch the 737 even more instead.
They have reached the limit on that that MAX 10
Still cant comprehend why a 767 MAX would be a better choice than a 787-3. Why drag out old technology when you can tweak new technology to create a plane that is virtually a 757 rerplacement?
Think the 767X is called 787 dreamliner 😂
Boeing must return to the beautiful MADE IN USA 🇺🇸. 💯.
Always try to fly 767 when flying. You can’t beat the 2-4-2 seating in coach. Seats in coach are typically wider as well compared to the likes of 777
I also look for the 767 the 2-4-2 seating is the best. I also liked the 757 entry door seating where any seat in that row could get up at any time during the flight without bothering anyone else.
The 767 has a 2-3-2 seating in coach, even better than 2-4-2.
The A330 was like this too however, a lot of carriers have re-seated 'em to 3 on the side.
Very few opportunities left the fly the 767 unless you're on DL or UA or in box for cargo.
2-4-2 on the 767 is a nightmare. But luckily 95% of all 767s were configured 2-3-2.
With an ever decreasing market coverage and the lack of resources to remedy it in the short term, the 767x should be a no-brainer!
While single aisle and twin aisle may overlap in seating capacity (the 757-300 was most definitely in the twin aisle capacity), the choice of one over the other is probably more to do with the business model of the airline.
I believe that the A321neo and its longer range variants are brilliant aircraft, however, I am sure that they would have lost significant sales to twin aisle designs (A310 and smaller 767 variants in particular) had they still been in production.
Likewise, we saw how limited the demand for the 757-300 was, presumably because most airlines preferred the 767.
Yes, the NMA is needed, but is it a priority? I do not believe it is. By the time it comes to market, the A321 will have eaten into its potential sales even further, possibly enough to make its prospects of breaking even more uncertain than for the 787.
I think the best solution for Boeing would be to work on a 767x as quickly as possible and then concentrate on where they want to position themselves in the single aisle market.
Yes, the MAX is selling well, but not as well as the A320 series, and we mustn't discount the significant number of MAX orders placed because its delivery times are substantially shorter.
No where near it. Both have different capacities. The only 767 variant to come close to the 757 is the 767-200.
I still want a 2 engine 747!
It's called 777-9X
@@terencereeder9830 Not the same
787-3 that never was....
I would be afraid Boeing would sculpt the walls and introduce 2-4-2 seating making this the most uncomfortable wide body flying!
How about 757x
Nope. They moved on from the 757 now 20 years ago. It was never that successful for them.
The 757 was successful aircraft for performance and thin routes
@@t10391 Which is tiny percentage of the market. It was actually too much aircraft for 90%+ of the market. That performance came at a high cost in terms of weight and fuel burn.
Have you heard anything about Boeing doing a make over of the 747? New engines and wings? I'm afraid this will be another 737 max ordeal. Instead of a clean sheet, Boeing is trying to save money with redoing an old plane. Sounds like a "here we go again" ordeal.
There are no plans for a new version of the 747. Those days are done. The market and technology has moved on. It had a good run of over 50 years but it's over.
Remember KC-46 Airbus was winning that in first time, but was over by congress given to Boeing.
As Boeing transitions from an plane manufacturer to a shareholder centered company they are losing sight of any future. Any moneys spent on RandD is looked at as appropriating profits rightly due them. With the growth of the Chinese aircraft industries and the expansion of Bombardier ,, Boeing will find itself left out as they wither and die.
I think Boeings failure to evolve the 757 will really hurt the company.
Boeings failures (and there are many) will more than hurt the company. The company is being mismanaged right into the ground.
It already has
They are grinding their teeth at that decision everyday. If only Boeing could pull off a miracle on new updated 757s, Delta would be first in line for a sizable order. Next would be United. These two carriers have firm grips on their current 757s and have not decided on a firm retirement date yet. They would likely drop any unfilled orders for the 737-10 in favor of a more capable brandnew 757. I follow one of Delta's older 757s on flight aware and this aircraft is pushing 33 yrs of age and just left an expensive D check for return to service. They are going to end up being the modern day DC-3.
The management at Boeing made several incredibly stupid decisions prior to the release of the 737 Max and then screwed up the whole system with their idiotic decisions regarding the 777X, Having decided to wait for "new technology" to save their butts they're doing it again. Here's an idea so crazy it just might work. Give their customers the airplane they want, a single aisle middle of the market plane that will replace the 757.
first view :)
Boeing 767 is taken over by Airbus A330/340 in time of years
maybe you'd get more subs if you didn't use AI to write your script
He doesn’t use AI
No no no no no, for passengers the 767 is a horrible, cramped and outdated aircraft and the sooner they all get scrapped the better, in my opinion.