Joerg: What was he thinking?
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- čas přidán 26. 05. 2020
- Joerg Sprave from the Slingshot Channel sent me one of his "Instant Legolas" arrow feeding magazine system for longbows.
I have shot the weapon and now my task is to reinterpret it and remake it in a way that our medieval ancestors could have made it, but that is for the next films; this one is all about me discovering what this invention is all about. Fun, but more than just that.......
So the discussion to come is "would it have replaced the longbow and changed the shape of medieval warfare". I suspect not, but I do think had this been around it would/could have had a role and this film is the start of a journey to look at the object in an alternative reality where this device could have existed and if so........what would it have been like? But hell I changed my mind during the filming of this, so who knows what I will think next week or the week after.
If you would like to support my work on this channel you can always buy my fantastic reproduction medieval weaponry available here todcutler.com
If you are interested in custom medieval weapons have a look at my site todsworkshop.com
Check out Joerg's channel here / joergsprave
Very cool video! I loved to see the groups you were getting, and the speed shooting was even better. One of the best things about this project is that now, I don't have to keep coming up with new features all by myself anymore. It took me almost three years to arrive at this point, starting from my very simple first Instant Legolas device in 2017. Just imagine what thousands of talented medieval bowyers would have developed from this, over the course of a few hundred years. I am sure they would have made it so much better. Faster reloading, easier attachment, mass production optimizations... probably all it would have taken is a simple first proof of concept model.
While I have no doubts that the SIL would have been a success once on the way, I keep thinking "how would I have marketed the idea in the middle ages". Keep in mind no internet, no TV, no radio, no print magazines. How do you get that FIRST army using it? I am fairly sure that it would have been unstoppable afterwards.
Even ground breaking inventions need a clever marketing strategy to succeed, and I am not even sure if you can call the SIL "ground breaking".
In fact, now that we have the internet, and also we have all those firearms regulations, maybe the SIL will change modern archery more than it would have changed medieval archery. We will find out!
Can't wait to what you will come up with! It is all about THE FEATURES.
I used to be a product designer way back and I used to think that one person can get an idea 95% of the way, but if you want better then you have to bring in others to refresh and review and to build from each others ideas and this is that same process, you are right.
Ideas and products moved and were adopted because they worked, so marketing was basic in that sense; (for example) if helical flights worked, helical flights got used all over after a while.
There is much discussion about how and if the device would have replaced a longbow or a crossbow, but at present, and my view may change, I see crossbows staying in the role they had. A longbow is a cheap, simple, powerful and flexible weapon with a generally high enough rate of fire given physical effort to shoot it and the limited amount of ammunition available whilst on campaign so I don't see its role much changed. However I do see a role for the SIL in certain circumstances where a high rate of shooting is a must and there it could excel.
But my musings are to come.......when I show you its features!
How is there no playlist for the Instant Legolas on your channel? Would be awesome if you could add one.
Lady Marion: I've come to warn you. Prince John and Rottingham have hired murderers to kill you at the fair tomorrow. You mustn't go!
Jörg: Well that's easy, I won't.
Lady Marion: Oh. I'm sooo happy. They were going to lure you there by having an archery contest.
Jörg: AN ARCHERY CONTEST?
I just REALLY want to get my comment in,,, that the second bow could be LONGER, if it were like the japanese bow and skinny on the top to let it be really long.
Hi Joerg & Tod! Marketing in the medieval times went by word of mouth. So if you made a nice working design, and got a few knights interested, you would have a lot of work. It was simple as that. You would be made the lords smith/bowmaker or something.
2:08 "Sights, huh? Always thought they were overrated"
*pans to reveal a perfect 3-inch group*
Tod's comedic timing is underrated.
That was a really good grouping, impressive.
I love how youtubers like Shad, Jeorg, and Todd don’t jealously guard their fan base, but frequently recommend others they find interesting. They are helping to create a community of people who love to learn.
Amen to that.
Fact!
Modern History TV as well
I never really see youtubers "jealously guard" there fan base? Most youtubers know that all there subs can be subs of multiple channels...
I think it simply allows us to get more in depth on things that interest up, but in a way that helps carry the audience
Let’s be realistic, in Roman times, Joerg would have been a Roman Emperor ruling over a vast empire won with his weapons except everyone would have loved him and learned to use his inventions for sport and fun. The people would gather around him in the great coliseum with his newest invention and he would say, “Let me show you its features”.
Not am emperor but probably would be considered one of the greatest inventors in story
@Mitch Batten: That comment is so wholesome and nice that I now really want to see a film series about the benevolent emperor-inventor Sprave and his magnificient creations.
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!! HAHAHA!!! Then let's create another version!!
My dude, look up the roman ballista or scorpio, joerg would fit right in with those insane geniuses that were the roman engineers
Leonardo da Vinci would look at him like we look at Leonardo da Vinci now.
3:53
Tod: "There's some really clever little features here."
Joerg: *appears out of nowhere* I will take it from here.
-Joerg's head literally bursts out of his roof-
"LET ME SHOW YOU ITS FEATURES, HAHAHAHA"
@@excelsior8682 hahaahashhahahhaha
Imagine explaining this to a medival king.
"Yes, there is supposed to be two bows."
"Yes the other bow is meant to be pointed at me"
"No I am not going to shoot myself"
King: this sounds stupid, but I will give you one shot, and one shot only, to prove your invention!
Medieval Joerg: *shoots perfectly, manly laugh*
King: I'll take 10,000
Underrated comment XD
@@Joe125g20 "Your Majesty, could I get you to, instead, count to ten?"
(because a single shot wouldn't prove anything. A single magazine would!)
While I assume that you comment is made in gest, I find it insulting that people regard their forebearers with such contempt. While there were undoubtedly kings that were stupid, there were also undoubtedly kings that were genius military commmanders, and political schemers.
Oh, the double/triple bow crossbows did exist in the past, so it wouldn't be that surprising to the kings of the past
myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=267780
medieval archers: We were born in the wrong millennium.
its they engineers doe
Shooting a bow without dysentery is nice though.
Hey, don't sell yourself short. You may very well require that skill in the living future.
@Swedish Dissident
Dam french
@Tyler K. 15th Century handgonner: heavy breahing while looking at a firelock that fires almost indefinitely, wonders why it doesn't explode
CO: “What’s you firearm of choice?”
Navy Seal: “A Semi-Automatic Long Bow”
CO: “What?”
Navy Seal: “What?”
Technically it's a pump action longbow, but yes
@@jjtomecek1623 its not a pump though its a pull
@@alexsanchez1620 Pump, you need to reciprocate the system forward, then back through a full cycle - not just pull. It's most comparable in cycling to a RMB-93 or NS2000 inverted-cycle pump shotgun.
The absolute madman, Jörg. He's done up the archery equivalent of a Winchester.
Actually its more like the archery knox volly gun, to its peak but it shows potentual
In my head, this is either a pump action bow, or a long draw "crossbow" on its side.
Yes
I love everything about what you just said.
I love Joerg Sprave he is so creative
This is the most I've ever seen Todd smile
The repeating bow tends to do that to everyone. Might be a Joerg thing.
@@NUSensei His contagious laugh has somehow leaked into his very engineering, causing all who hold his creations to at least smile
I think it’s a man thing. We get our hands on a cool, dangerous new toy, and we get a giant smile on our faces.
I did it once in 2012....Seriously though, NUSensei has it right. It does that to you
@@tods_workshop You have no idea how much I like that. Makes me so proud.
"Ugh, nobody needs a high capacity assault bow!!!"
This is freaking awesome! haha Basically a pump action long bow.
More like a pull action longbow ^^
if i was any good a writing stories i'd turn all this into a medieval fan fiction LOL
"just before the siege horn was sound... we saw a figure raise up on the castle wall. He was a big man, bold, and build like a bear... then a team of archers came up next to him, lined up along the wall, all holding a strange shaped bow that we have never seen before... then that man started laughing, sounding like a joyful kid, but to think about it now, it was the laughter of demon... of death and destruction... soon he stopped laughing and shout out joyfully from the top of that wall... "LET ME SHOW YOU IT'S FEATURES!" he shouts... then the arrows... all those arrows just rain down on us, like the heaviest rain during a storm... during my 20 years of battle i have never seen arrows fall from the sky like that... and that was all i could remember... i don't know how i survived it, it might be luck, or it might be the will of the god... for that i was chosen to live on and pass down the story of the great battle at the Castle of Joerg..."
Ps.omg 400+ likes xD?
Thinks guys for the support!!
FYI You are actually pretty good with that and might as well try and write&share more of these :3
@Adam Richard thank you :3
@@davydovua thank you :D really appreciate that! but nah, little short stuff like this i can do, but any longer i just don't have the brain cell nor the language skill to make it happen saidly.
PS: first time i actually get to 100+ likes on a reply haha, this is pretty cool
@@askaliu2943 fun little story :)
Yeah was also thinking this would totally fit a medival or fantasy setting. Maybe one special tribe invented this type of bow.
"You cant get anymore simple"
Blasphemy! *throws rock*
you call that simple?! *throws punch*
Hang on a minute! Unscrews pommel...
I've heard that one guy throw a cobblestone through a wooden door in a fit of jealousy. I doubt that even many pitchers can generate this much power...
On the other hand, a relative of mine did the same with a cabbage through a closed window and still injured his wife who was busy cheating on him... (there was a cabbage patch right next to the window among a bunch of other plants).
edi wtf is this comment
@@nevertrustatory9412 unscrewing a pommel makes it léss simple. it's not about ranged, it's about less moving parts.
Just imagine about thirty Joerg's shooting those at you whilst chuckling.
With the booming warcry:
*LET ME SHOW YOU IT'S FEATURES!*
And the hills bellowed with the mighty HAHAHAHAHA as the slaughter went on...
...
i suddenly want this as a mod in probably a total war game or something similar, voice clip and all
Someone’s got to put it in bannerlord
i can hear the voice line of attacking now
"LET ME SHOW YOU ITS FEATURES! HAHAHA!" *queue arrow storm*
When you combine German engineering with an English longbowman, you get a walking weapons platform
English skill, German engineering, a weapons system to rule them all.
BBBBBRAAAAKAAA MOONOOOOGAAAA! DOITSU NO KAGAKU WA SEKAI ICHI!
What about a Mongol-born Englishman with a horse and a 120lbs instant legolas? That we would call a light tank.
I don't know, it seems more like an Italian engineering project to me. I'd believe Leonardo de Vinci would have been able to make this using era-specific materials.
@@clyax113 Probably, but IMHO with fireweapons starting to dominate the European battlegrounds it's unlikely that Leo would dedicate energies into this project.
Anyway he could master it just as a hobby XD
another thing to think about is that in joerg's version, it fires short bolts which cannot be fired back by enemies with regular bows.
What a wonderful idea ! I had never thought about that
A good idea, but how do you keep the weight of the projectiles high enough to avoid damaging the bow?
@@GuyUWishUWere Thicc and all made of wood except for the tip. Problem solved.
The debate around this has been centered on "instant-Legolas vs longbow". But in the context of medieval weapons, it has always seemed to me that the competition would be "instant-Legolas vs crossbow", the development seems to me closer to an alternative easier and faster loading system to that of crossbows than longbows.
I agree - it sure as hell wouldn't have replaced the longbow, but I see no reason why it couldn't have replaced the crossbow. And we know that the crossbow DID in fact change medieval history.
i dont think this would have nearly the penetrating power that a crossbow does. there's a reason there are special tools to draw a crossbow. If anything, it would be a 3rd weapon that would fulfill a new role, just like what was said in the video.
That's what I keep coming back to when evaluating how it would be used. The main advantage of the repeating bow is to give low-skilled users the ability to shoot quickly and, with these new assists, more powerful bows. But that's pretty much what crossbows did. The bow is a very versatile weapon - the people who used bows could shoot them with power, speed and accuracy as needed. The repeating tool turns it into a specialised tool for very specific scenarios. The question is whether it would replace crossbows or be used as a standalone weapon.
It wouldn't have even replaced cross bows, repeaters changed firearms while keeping a similar package so they could fit the same role. How would it change the bow, I dont know, lmg type role?
I don't think so. Crossbows have other advantages. They're more devastating at short distances, they're easier to operate behind cover and on ships and castles, for instance, an they're easier to keep loaded for long periods of time. Crossbows are for slow, methodical combat, where this repeating bow is very good at suppressing a charging enemy instead, it's perfect for moments of panic. I think it has an entirely different purpose to both the bow and crossbow.
joerg: "I'm not a carpenter"
Todd: "joerg is a master of wood engineering"
wholesome
those are two different things
@@jensboettiger5286 It's still very high praise!
I want to get into woodworking but I don't have any space or power tools :(
@@untitled9181 Non issue. Get your self drill of some sort, cordless are very nice for fine control, drill bits, hand saw, few chisels of various size, build wooden hammer to knock chisels with, metal ruler, box cutter, measuring calibers and couple of planers. All of those can be found from drift shop or yard sale for few bucks, though for the drill you might spend bit more money. Then just get tools when you need them.
For space...you do have roof over your head right? I built gf's custom crafting table on living room, while bedroom was storage for ready made parts and materials and kitchen stored glue ups and with door closed and windows open made it painting room (with a brush and rollers, not spray), with plastic on the ground and news papers soaking any drips. Though i did finish it in friends shop with spray gun, but you can rent a garage or work shop from local company to do it real cheap, or hire them to do it entirely, if you want spray finish.
Only thing required is relative good neighbors (usually just asked what the fuck was the noise, cause they were interested what i was doing, not to complain) and cleaning way more often. After project is done you need to do big clean up due all the dust, but nothing major. Construction vacuum cleaner is advised for dust prevention. If you have gf, its great test for the relationship :D If she cant handle little crafting on living room, specially when you clean it after every day and major clean on projects end she aint keeper :D
@@jensboettiger5286 in the same way that golden and red apples are
Imagine if Joerg was around in the medieval times, the man would be rich and well renowned for the weapons he makes.
And he would be featured at "forgotten weapons"
It's to a longbow what the henry rifle is to a single shot rifle: slightly less power but way more shots per minute. So like the henry rifle, it would have found it's use case.
Bows are already quite fast and you have to add the magazine reload, I don't think it is actually faster than a simple bow if you want to shoot a lot of arrows.
So for raining down volleys of arrows a standard bow is probably better, if your concern is a LOT of arrows in a limited time then yes, this is way better.
@@flakes6551 i would envision its medieval use being a small fast moving company of men armed with these. You cant fire on horseback, but if you could move to an area of the battle quickly, then fire a tremendous amount of firepower there very quickly, then leave in a hurry. Return to "base" reload then prepare to move out again. You could send them to key points on the battlefield and devastate enemies there. Wouldnt be effective much in defense, youd burn through your arrows fast and unless you could collect arrows back youd need a massive amount of them. !00 men who can move quickly though and with 5 arrows a piece could sling 500 arrows with good accuracy in a matter of seconds, that would be pretty effective.
Andrea Fiocchi i always picture an army who gets hit by the enemy having all their bowmen with these and just blotting out the sky with the million tiny bolts that the enemy cant shoot back at them
The Instant Legolas should be more powerful than a bow, in the hands of the same archer. The draw assist lets one draw a bow 20-30% beyond their normal ability by storing energy from the initial 'pushing' action. Never have to pull more than 90 lbs to draw a 115 lb bow.
@@sammyjones6730 Seem it would serve a Flanking, and Skirmishing role in the hands of a few bands of soldiers in a battlefield, and might slightly prolong the length of wars, and battles slightly, and be effective I would believe in wooded terrain, steep hills, night ambushes, and large towns/villages, and the urban cities of the medieval era, Medieval Outlaw bands, marauders, vikings likely would see the use of Instant Legolas, for quick raids, and Viking Longbows for range at sea, very well become the weapon of foot soldiers if there are enough bolts around which is unlikely but extensive mining, and metallurgy might supply it, and would crudely resemble the Vietnam war, and World War 1 Balkans in war.
Everyone who recieved instant legolas from jörg: have a great smile like a child recieving gift from santa Claus... Lol
Joerg is my kind of Santa.
That's its hidden feature.
+75% chance of boisterous laughter when using
+110% chance of smiling when using
Let me show it´s features, Ho! Ho! Ho!
I really really want one
I could receive a single sock and a broken marble in a gift box from Joerg and I'd still have a big dumb grin on my face.
"Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover in..."
Jörg: "Hold my features HAHAHAHAHA"
Shad: "Hold my MACHICOLATIOOOOONSzzaaaaa...!!!"
Tod: Hi. It's Tod from Tod's Workshop and Tod Cuttler here, and today you're gonna hold my medieval crafting skills.
I honestly ugly laughed at this comment
This is the best comment here lol
this comment is underrated XD
Hold my features HAHAHAHAHA... that is pure gold.
you forgot to add modern history tv
I can see this being banned in California for having to large a magazine or something like that.
In California, I’m surprised you don’t have to register a baseball bat. Or firewood. Or bricks. So tired of the constant new things that are harmful in the state of California notices on products. It’s like the legislature is bored and full of coffee drinking soccer moms.
@Lex Bright Raven
Life causes cancer.
@@RavemastaJ Yeah, definitely. That's why if I have a child I'll let them smoke and go to UV tanning booths and so on. Might as well get it sooner than later, you know?
V. S.
Just a little bit of the cancer. You probably want your kids to get it anyways in the future. Cancer gives your whole family Pity Points! Big PP!
This thing looks like a monster hunter weapon
glad to see I wasn't the only one who thought that lol. Heavy bowgun irl
Light* bowgun
Joerg is the only hope we have for a real life working bowgun
I want one rn
"This is not a long bow... it is a different kind of a weapon"
Yeah, it's a Jörg-bow. 😅
SIL
Surely it's like the difference between a musket and a M16, who do you think would win?
Trade mark it
I think IL x long bow is not comparable to m16 and musket
I can't wait for this project!
I can't imagine a person more suited for building this kind of contraption, while keeping it historical, than Tod.
7:28 - "medievalwise". I've been waiting my whole life for this qualifier.
Great to see you 2 collaborating. Glad I suggested it along with others... here's to great results.
I love how Joerg whent fron playing with slingshots to uniting a community of thinkers and tinkers.
And he did it to his theme-tune of HA HA HAAAA!!
Darth KEK Let me show you its features lol
I shoot a longbow and when I saw that first grouping I almost spat my coffee.
That is NOT bad for someone (iirc) with no formal longbow training/on your first time shooting a given configuration. Hell, I'd take that grouping on any given day!
Personally, I think it's the effect of the sight and the light draw weight. I was surprised to see that this version has a tangent sight - that was pretty clever.
@@NUSensei Hi man! I'm surprised to find you here.
Btw, I'm big fan of you.
Your 'Instant genghis khan' needs some upgrade as well. 😊
@@NUSensei The device offsets the challenges of a higher draw weight because it doesn't require the archer to hold the draw. Yes, the archer must supply the energy for the actual draw, but once completed the device holds the potential energy on its own. Theoretically there would be no difference once "cocked" between a 35lbs or 130lbs draw weight. Of course there's going to be some variation in how the arrows respond to more energy being imparted, but it wouldn't effect the grouping that significantly. A flatter trajectory from the higher pound bow and the faster speeds could make for even better grouping in certain situations.
The sights seem to be the influencing factor, not the draw weight.
@@NUSensei Well, don't under estimate the effect of the front lever, what I call the "medieval let-off". It allows you to hold the weapon steady under full tension. The heavier the bow, the more important this gets. Sights are useless if you can't hold the weapon steady.
@@Slingshotchannel I would agree that the front hold does help massively with the sighting because it helps to keep everything steady
If we're talking medieval military use, there's three things we need to look at, aside from does it work for arrows and bows big enough to get through at least gambeson:
1) Cost. How much longer does this take to make when compared to a simple bow, and how much does it cost to maintain? Because we may well find out that it's cheaper to just hire another bowman.
2) Weather resistance. Will rain be enough to make it not work because wood got bloated? Sure, you could store it in something like a leather bag, but if your formation is in the field, there may not be enough time. Comapre it to crossbow with its waxed string or bow with a string that's easy to take off and store.
3) Wear and tear. How many arrows can we put through this before it breaks. There's a lot of surfaces sliding along each other and a lot of force pressing into things. Some of it could be helped by embedding bone or horn into critical contact points, but perhaps not all.
The crossbow was a far more complicated, expensive version of a bow, a major advantage was that anyone could use it. The cost of 'just hiring' another bowman, is months, or years of training versus a more expensive 'bow'
@@Regnent No, cost of a bowman was about 6 pence a day. We have actual data on this from Hundred Years War, it's not hard to look them up.
MartinGreywolf yes, and months upon months of training to get a competent archer.
about the cost; In the medium term it would be cheaper due to the fact that the arrows being shorter, are much easier to manufacture. from my own experience; I was able to make 6 bolts for the same cost of 1 normal arrow and much faster just because it was easier for me to find 15-inch sections that were straight enough ... also fewer feathers are used. also being short arrows they could not be fired against you with a normal bow ...
1) There have been far more complicated and sophisticated Crossbow systems in the ME era that went into mass production anyway, as Shadiversity has pointed out
2) I don't know
3) If you enforced the fragile parts, like the left hand handle at the front and the attachment part with metal reinforcements, stability should not be a problem. A medieval craftsman should have no problem to repair it either. It might need frequent repairs and reinforcements, but this should not be an issue.
there are no words. one of the most functional and fun inventions ever. I thank Joerg for allowing me to use his figure and his inventions for my fantasy book!
Thank you Joerg and thank you Tod for this review.
I am like 80% sure that the whole "Don't hold a longbow at full draw for extended periods" thing is more about being physically unable to hold a 120 pound draw bow at full draw for extended periods rather than anything about it possibly damaging the bow.
Yeah, probably more of risk of hurting yourself than the bow.
@@simmerke1111 more tiring your arm out (which then means your aim is unsteady) rather than hurting yourself
I think it would be pretty interesting to test that out.
Make a jig to draw out a longbow and hold it there for some time. Use a chronograph to measure the speed of the arrows before and after. Test by drawing it out for increasing periods of time.
It's not as much about being physically unable to do it, but drawing a 120 pounder at full draw and keeping it there massively increases the forces that your body has to contain (from explosive to sustained force), and this tends to lead to overstretching of the muscles, and even the stretching of bones (see the Mary Rose skeletons), which can give problems after the battle (injury prone, dislocations, muscle tears etc) . To a certain extent a trained body can deal with this, but there is a limit. Just like how the Strongmen competitions only ask for a 2(?) second lift, and not a walk around the stage.
@@rugratrik Find me the person who can hold a 120+ pound longbow at full draw for longer than 5 seconds.
And if you do find that person, see if they can do it twice in a row.
Ok Guys. Its hapening everybody stay calm
I CAN'T STAY CAAAAALM! AAAAAH
I'm trying, I'm trying. Now excuse me while I take a cold shower and steel my friend's heart medicine.
REEEEEEEEE
calm? CALM?!?
Don't tell me what to do! XD
This is one of the reasons that internet is beautiful. Variety, beautiful and ingenious people. Hat off to you sir!
Awesome vid man, joerg stuff is awesome and now mixed with your uniqueness is fabulous!
This is the type of video that made CZcams great, it’s a shame that CZcams has forgotten this.
Cheers from Tokyo!
"I get it, Joerg, I get it".
Pretty much my thoughts too.
I've said in my analysis that the main thing that holds it back is its simplification of rapid shooting, such that a novice could shoot a quick burst with decent effectiveness (granted the new pump-action model and sights, and potentially with the pendulum design, greatly enhances this). Once you have actual training and experience with a normal bow, the rate of fire evens out, so you're just switching sustained shooting for burst shooting. As the number of combatants scale up, the volume of arrows is achieved through simply having more archers. This would be a highly specialised weapon and role, suitable for when an individual or small group of unskilled archers needs a disproportionately larger volume of shooting.
Something else viewers should be wary of is how effective it looks on camera, but given that we're shooting light draw weights with light bolts, things really drop off past 10 yards in terms of penetration and accuracy. I had the same tight grouping as Tod on my first go with the original Genghis Khan model (no release grip or sights), but struggled past 20 yards. As Tod said, if the draw weight and bolt weight could be beefed up, we might see different results.
I agree with your initial observations on the technical drawbacks. My viewers seem to miss that it isn't a quick-detach device - it does require the string to be threaded into the rail and the bow needs to be lashed on, so it removes the ability for the bow to be used conventionally unless you can modify it to be removed easily.
@@NUSensei My intuition is that the sliding mechanism fundamentally changes the Instant Legolas as a concept, and is actually the far greater innovation than the magazine. As you said, with high draw weights plus reloading and logistical concerns, the rate of fire advantage of the magazine is probably close to nil on a large scale. But the sliding mechanism provides a consistent draw, a consistent release, and a draw-hold feature - essentially the exact same advantages of a crossbow. It is, in effect, a crossbow that is *much* faster to reload, at the cost of being slightly more bulky.
I might even suggest that the Sliding Instant Legolas would have been game-changing WITHOUT the magazine. It would allow you to mass train large amounts of unskilled archers - just like crossbows - but each one has a rate of fire equal to a regular longbow, instead of a crossbow.
@NUSensei
The best conceivable application would be on the defender's side during a siege.
It would be "difficult" on the open battlefield - at the latest when it comes to close combat (reloading time between the bursts).
An untrained person would have no chace at all without a secondary weapon (and training).
But to shoot arrows from the castle walls ... the IL would do the job.
AND anyone could shoot it - the cook, the princess and anyone else....
@@espneindanke9172 I question the "anyone" part. While it definitely makes it easier, especially the sliding rail design, but when you scale it up to war bow levels, you still need to be physically able to draw the bow even with the tool. Crossbows were employed for this very reason - it could be cocked with tools and shot by anyone, and you didn't even need to load it if you had someone else to do it for you. This seems to be the opposite - anyone can load it, but it would be ineffective if the user couldn't draw it to begin with.
@@NUSensei Chinese repeating crossbows are very similar operationally. They were used mostly to repel charges against static defenses due to the low weight of the bolt and demand for sudden firepower.
Absolutely LOVE your channel, I've been following for quite a while.
You and Jorge?
A match made in engineering heaven!
this whole project has me subscribing to so many channels i never know about just to follow the story of this one amazing invention. I can't wait to see your take on this now either.
Jeorg has the manliest laugh I have ever heard
You're young
@@MACtic1 Ok Boomer
Somebody is gonna try and make a D&D home-brew of this thing.
Probably done already.
Wouldn’t it be treated like a repeater crossbow does for crossbows?
It took maybe a day for several homebrews to show up on Reddit.
@@JK-ko6en now it needs a Skyrim mod.
Done.
Joër/ Tod,. Thank you for your time for the construction of such a beautiful piece of art.
Great video, I really appreciate how open minded and honest you are!
I never clicked so fast in a video before! Damn how I waited for this.
Same here.
About sprained my finger . . .
Be sure to check out Joerg's channel if you have questions or ideas- he has pretty much addressed them all multiple times while developing this concept.
Saw the size of a 200lbs longbow on Joe's channel. Makes me wonder how big a 300lbs bow would look like and can the assist on the IL make it usable by Joe.
I loves this man's passion for his own passion. His knowledge and articulation of the ideas. Even making the science simple to those who may not have known anything prior to this video is just perfect in my opinion. This is amazing!!!!
Thank you - thats very kind
Subscribed for supporting The Sprave and for being skilled in the art of badassery, well done!
Lordy. Imagine 1000 trained archers armed with these things firing into a crowd of troops.
5000 arrows in maybe 2 or 3 seconds... That's a scary thought.
@@WingmanSR And the skies went black as night
Imagine 1000 UNTRAINED archers useing this to seige a city
Not as scary as it sounds compared to what was already achievable. The main difference is in sustained vs burst shooting. If all 1000 shot at the same time, you could get 5000 shots in a few seconds. But factor in the reload and a normal bow will match or even outshoot it. It comes down to whether you need that burst for short-distance engagement, perhaps similar to how we see single-shot rifles and repeating rifles being used.
late 19th-century european nations resisted the adoption of repeating rifles because they didn't think they could afford the increase in ammo spent. Both logistically, financially and in terms of tactics. Advances in industry made that point moot but we still have the question about what happens after the 1000 archers shoot that first 5000 arrow volley.
What's really quite amazing with the "Instant Legolas" is that it basically requires no experience with firing a bow yet it allows the person to become quite good at aiming and firing.
Which is the primary advantage of the crossbow and gun. Easy training. This however has a significant speed advantage.
@@Justowner Easy training is a function of just what the Instant Legolas does as well as the Crossbow and later guns..it give consistency...it is accurate because it removes any variation in the pull of the weapon.
@@r.gilman4261 The release is the more important variable, but yes, more repeatable.
I came back to watch this again.
Boy am I excited to see where this goes next
The short arrows are the point, they can't be shot back at you and when you run out of arrows you can remove the legolas and fire the opponents arrows back at them.
but well, as seen would be dificult, you would have to reestring the bow due how the instant legolas is built.
What Tod was on about was not how well the arrows would fit, but that firing such light bolts from a heavier bow could physically damage the bow itself from the shock.
Still short, just heavier.
There's something interestingly heart-warming seeing Tod having fun in this video. Thank you for sharing your experience and insights with us, Tod.
Joerg imbues all his creations with the "childish grin" spell of enchantment. I just want Tod to say "Let me show you its features".
I’m a new sub from The Slingshot Channel. Excited to see where you go with it!
I'm new here but am very excited for your follow up video! Good luck with the medieval assist :)
I'd really like tod to go as heavy as possible with the build, optimize it to have the most powerful forward assist and a humanly impossible draw weight on the main bow
Now i’m wondering if you can have some sort of assist tool to allow the second bow to be hilariously heavy to allow for an even more hilariously heavy primary bow, the same way you need a crank to pull back a heavy crossbow. Sure all the advantages would be lost but hey, 200 lb here we gooooooo.
I think the mechanism will reach it's limit before human anatomy. Then again, wood can always be reinforced with metal, at the expense of cost and weight. I would be intrested in a medieval smith's ability to form flat metal plates - I wonder how the performance would look if the sliding mechanism was just two oiled plates sliding against each other. I envisage two strips of metal being meshed with three strips of metal (one of them higher than the others, placed between the two) forming a crude T shape and slotting into the gap between the two plates. This might allow the mechanism to be expanded beyond a weight where wood on wood contact surfaces for the movement of the rail would fail.
@@shallowabyss515 I agree, the design needs reinforcement. That's where tod fits in. as for the ability of medieval smiths to make straight metal slabs, what is a sword if not a straight long steel slab?
Tod : ok, i think i will have to try that again just to see how well it shoots, 20 secs later, ok, i think i will have to try that again just to see how well it hits the target, 20 secs later, ok, i think i will have to try that again just to see how well it hits when i aim it.. GOD THIS THING IS SO MUCH FUN TO SHOOT
"Favor the bow, eh? I'm a sword man myself."
- some random guard-
You would take a knife to a gun fight
@@kowhaijack6033 He was making a Skyrim reference.
For when someone steals my sweet roll
subbed and belled up for the journey!! let the knowledge commence!
What's really interesting about that weapon's theoretical role in medieval combat is the fact that it's not really a standalone weapon. Soldiers could potentially be deployed with longbows and several of those attachments, and simply switch when the need arises. It almost would be like the ability to switch from semi-automatic to fully automatic in modern military firearms.
Not to mention if you had a peasant boy and 3 of those you could fire really fast.Like a crew ,one guy shoots,other guy reloads and 3rd guy passes them.Medeval equivalent of machinegun.Then when a shooter gets tires someone else replaces him .
The attachment is a hassle to get on and off and it's perfectly capable of single shots. Switching in the field doesn't make that much sense.
I don't really see anything a bow can do that an IL can't. Some things a plain warbow can do better (the bow doesn't encourage you to damage it by drawing it for too long, friction slightly decreases the IL's efficiency and might wear out the string faster etc.) but I would see the device almost completely replacing normal bows in an army because:
Astonishing volume of fire
Good accuracy
Easier to train people on, thus potential to get more guys in the field in the same amount of time
The Instant Legolas is a noob weapon. Easy to learn, easy to master. Perfect for the modern type of soldier. About medieval English longbowmen I know little and can't really make any statements.
more likely you would have all three alternate shooting and reloading, which was more effective with reloading weapons like musket. You would not need such a deep line to allow continuous fire though (a musket takes much longer to reload than to fire compared to these) which might change tactics a lot.
If we are talking about England, all the peasants in this situation would likely be trained to use a longbow.
Modern combat rifles switch modes with a flick of the finger. This tool requires the bow to be lashed onto the device, the string threaded through and then strung. It's a clumsy process that, as Tod said, is more awkward with a heavier bow. I had mine jam a couple of times, and that pretty much put the whole thing out of action until I unstrung it and cleared the rail.
@@dot620 I'd say it takes around 10 seconds to load a full magazine (depending on capacity) in this tool. The loading speed is fast enough that you don't need to fire by rank. More likely you would fire at will given that each soldier will load, aim and shoot at their own pace. Unlike with muskets, you're not looking for initial volume of fire. You have a weapon with multiple shots, negating the need to immediately reload.
What *could* change, if this was actually adopted as a standard weapon, would be that armies might be less linear and massed. If both armies had this tool, there might be more small-unit skirmish tactics around a greater area.
I really enjoy seeing your reactions to the bow. Your eagerness over it is awesome to see. It's been worth the wait for this video
Is there anything more satisfying than a British man saying "I like that"? XD
1:05 That chicken be like: «Never mind me! I’m just going ‘bout my business.»
Holy crap! Something like that could've changed history had someone invented it before the age of gunpowder. Wow!
Exactly!
even a bit into the gunpowder age i think it would have been used, just for the amount of firepower it gives one person.
Anthony Zierhut History is full of cool weapon designs that weren’t adopted because they were too complex or finicky to be effectively carried, maintained, and utilized by the common foot soldier. As Todd points out this is very light bow. Beef up the mechanism to use a 100+ lb. bow and the thing is going to start to weigh quite a bit. Add the ‘assist system’ and you’ve got a pretty complicated beast that’s going to really be pain to carry about or use. Maintaining it in the field would be something of a nightmare. Period bows were either entirely covered while strung ( like crossbows) or unstrung and the bow and string covered separately. Henry V’s archers supposedly kept their bowstrings dry before Agincourt by coiling the under their caps. Don’t forget that in this era manpower was always cheaper than materials. You very likely could hire a couple of trained archers for the cost of building and maintaining one of these things.
@@jeffreyhenion4818
Great points!
I'm skeptical it would have changed European history very much. Matchlock firearms drove English bows from the field primarily because of three factors: much greater power & thus armor penetration, convenience of shooting from cover, & much higher velocity (making dodging much more difficult). Magazine longbows would have been even more awkward than classic longbows for skirmishing in rough terrain. They still can't defeat decent armor & they shoot arrows at velocity low enough to potentially dodge. Shooting five arrows in nine seconds isn't that great if your foes take cover within the first second of a skirmish.
AND UNIVERSES COLLIDE. [deep laugh]
czcams.com/video/8uVU0m0b5uI/video.html
HA HA HA!
Really looking forward to seeing your version of this, Tod.
This is the best explanation. It is a different weapon. Can't wait to see it👍
It’s got a hold-open! That tickles me immensely.
It's great isn't it haha. However, it serves a very real purpose, even more so than on a firearm - dry firing a longbow is likely to do serious damage.
@@jameshealy4594 You can do quite a lot of damage to caplock firearms when dry firing, not that that relates being hold-opens cannot be implemented without a bolt to hold open.
@@bryceforsyth8521 Yep, it will also damage many rimfires but as far as I know not in quite the same catastrophic way it can destroy a bow.
James Healy Yup, so I’ve been told. I have never put this to the test as I’m too fond of my bow to want to destroy it though. :)
And yes, it isn’t exactly a hold-open. It seemed like the closest analogue.
I’ve been waiting for this video and collab with these two “born in the wrong Century” Titans, Jörg and Tod! It’s like watching 2 of the Avengers for Medieval Weaponry FINALLY coming together! Can’t wait for the next video! 😆
This is the collab i have been waiting for.
As a competitive 3D , field archer and enthusiast, I have loved the concept of this thing since Joerg came up with it and started making videos of his inventions. I shoot a lot of different bows from history including war bows and long bows. I can see the benefits of it and a few draw backs. I look forward to seeing what Tod will come up with to expand upon it from a medieval perspective. I think his comments so far were well reasoned and fair. Keep up the great work Tod. I look forward to seeing what you do with this beast of an invention.
I'm so looking forward to seeing what Tod does with this. Fully re-engineered for fully legit historically plausible medieval craftsmanship. Can't wait!
Thats the plan, but lets see...
This is the crossover everyone was waiting for
Impressive shooting for a medieval weapon of yore...
Thank You for sharing...
"It is a different kind of weapon" Fantastic.
Well said sir.
I've been waiting for Tod to get his hands on one of these. I've been following the various iterations of the instant legolas and it's variations on Joerg's channel from the get go and I think Tod's the one who can settle once and for all where exactly this thing would have fit historically.
Thanks; I doubt anything can get settled with this device, but I will try
just imagine how happy medieval footmen were that this didn't get invented in their time
100 archers with this thing would be like assaulting a ww1 trench guarded by automatic weapons😨😨.
The primary arguement agaisnt it is that a trained longbowmen wouldnt have use for it.
Yeah but my army of peseants turned legolasses will. You can out shoot by virtue of training 100s of bowmen in weeks compared to 10s in years.
Medieval footman: "Yeah, we really dodged an arrow on that one."
@@B3RyL badum tsss
Maaaan. I can't wait to see your version! :D
This is amazing, I love this!
Such a brilliant analysis and I Seriously can't wait to see what what you can make with this concept.
Aaaaah the third man of this epic team up.
HI Shad, it will be fun to see what shakes out and you will of course get to find out....
"Hopefully You'll come along for the journey..." Yes Sir, we will. Oh, we will
It's a fabulous invention:
1) It securely and easily holds the draw-weight for aiming
2) It's relatively easy to detach and transport.
3) The trigger mechanism ensures a consistent release.
4) It COULD have been manufactured in the medieval times, with the technology available at the time.
5) Ability to use a rudimentary sighting system means accuracy over a longer distance.
I think if this tech had been thought of at the time... Almost all bowmen would have been comfortably and accurately showering their enemies with arrows fired at 100lbs.
Todd, all you need to do is tweak this for the correct arrows, correct draw weight for the most probably use and simplify the materials and production method that would have been employed at the time.
Then you have a History-changing implementat
I love how you can see his enjoyment immediately after the second arrow fires.
I for one can't wait for you to....
"show us its features"...hahaha
So hyped for this project, can't wait to see the result.
When Medieval History got Instant Legolas it looked cool, but this upgraded version, especially with assist bow is a monster.
Put a bunch of those on a fort and you effectively got five times more men.
@Jadandlud that's why overdraw devices like the tong ah and majra exist.
Five is conservative.
Probably this is the first time when i see this channel. And i must say. That intro when motions turn into the logo. Amazing! Hands down one of the bests. It's unique. I think i never saw like this (or i don't remember it.) Anyways it's very nice!:D
Oh man, I was waiting for this
Looking forward to seeing how this develops.
"I get it, i get it." - everybody using the instant legolas :D
This channel is a masterpiece.
Alright, I'm sold. You've got my subscription.
Ok I'm decided: I'm including this weapon in my worldbuilding project!
you better include its creator, too, then.
@@frankgelder8519 mad inventer with a laugh that haunts his enemies
I wanna see that when it's done, so i can die happy
@@OrDuneStudios It's a more exotic weapon, coming from a different continent, specific to very well trained elite archers who have the purpouse of completely disrupting and discouraging enemy lines, that could then be crushed by heavy cavalry. This style of fighting has made this particular branch of the empire quite feared. Not thinking about including the weapon in detail, explaining precisely how it works and stuff, as it would only be mentioned as "elite archers who use a very unusual type of bow that can fire multiple arrows in quick successions" and it is enough for me to know that such a weapon could exist in the context.
It turns the Longbow from a Weapon into a Weapon System.
Thanks to Jörg I found this great channel.... Instant following 👍👍❤️❤️👌
Welcome aboard!
@@tods_workshop 🤘😊
first time seeing any of your videos but damn, that intro is one of the smoothest things ive ever seen on CZcams
When civilisations fail it's people like Joerg and Tod who bring us all back out of the dark. Love it. So looking forward to the result.
Tod, I do believe he made one with a bow with two long bows and during the action of drawing without stressing out either one, and while the clip is empty.
@daAnder71 I was referring more to the mechanism that locks and releases.
@daAnder71 I don't mean to be *that guy* but when referring to firearms, clips and magazines are very different. Clips are just, as the name suggests, clips that hold bullets. Generally via the rim on the rear end of the cartridge. Usually the rounds are fairly exposed, though some clips to wrap around the cartridges somewhat. Magazines are completely different, it's a box with a spring in it that holds bullets for the weapon in question to utilize and it isn't necessarily even a separate thing from the weapon itself. Many WW2 era rifles had internal (non detachable) magazines that were loaded from clips through the breech, the clips are just a convenient way of storing the bullets in a configuration that makes them easy to load.
I cannot wait to see what people will come up with this in the days to come.
It's the first time I've ever subscribed to a CZcams channel so quickly.