Dr. Arun Dravid: An Intimate Discourse on the Music of Kishori Amonkar - Part One
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2020
- Dr. Arun Dravid, one of the senior-most disciples of Gaana Saraswati Kishori Amonkar presented an intimate discourse on the early career of his guru through rare recordings of her live concerts between 1960 and 1985.
- Hudba
Respect and admiration, Dr. Dravid, for your dedication and love of music that is transmitted to the listener and viewer. You have certainly preserved priceless gems for posterity. Her music, of course, is enchanting and bewitching, and these qualities are enhanced by your explanations. First Edition, thanks, once again.
We are so glad you like the work.
What an amazing labour of love
Thank you so much First Edition Arts for all your great videos.
Our pleasure!
Respect to your Guru Bhakti, Pandit ji.... saadar pranaam
you're so blessed to be with such a divine artist
Wah ! Thank you for sharing!🙏🙏
Thanks a million Davidji for very hard work for preserving and classifying Kishori tai's enormous work. Your points on Savni Kalyan and Kaushi Kanada were really relevant! Kishori tai was obviously a top notched musician of our times. Many thanks First Edition Arts Channel!
So grateful to you for your tremendous effort. Thanks for sharing!
Highly respectful and beautiful!
What a presentation, Dr. Arun! Each minute brings new knowledge and understanding of the legendary singer. Thank you for enlightening me on the subject. Even in limited time, you have been detailed, comprehensive and very very accessible. Thanks to First Edition Arts Channel too! Greetings from Philadelphia!
खूपच अप्रतिम खजिना उघडल्या बद्दल धन्यवाद, द्रविडजी, कौशी कानडा या रागाची खासियत उलगडून दाखवून किती अलगद पणे त्यांनी गायलंय हे बघण्याची दृष्टी दिलीत खूप खूप आभार
Thank you so much First Edition Arts for all your great video
Our pleasure! And thank you for your continued support.
Dear First Edition, thank you so very much for bringing this online. This is not just incredibly useful but indeed invaluable to students of music.
You’re welcome Akhilesh. Our pleasure.
Amazing program. Two cheers for the people with the video and mixing. The entire video is a masterpiece. Keep doing great work
Much appreciated!
🙏🙏
Deep respect 🌺
Very nice
Omg she landed up on तीव्र मध्यम... 😍😍😍😳😳😳While it's shuddh kalyan such Rebellious but still loved by people's.
🙏🙏🙏
Very insightful presentation. I presume the next part will come soon.
Sharad Kulkarni the next part is already uploaded on the First Edition Arts CZcams channel. Look for it there as well as a host of other high quality videos of performances by a wide variety of Hindustani and Carnatic classical artistes.
Thank you so much for this, FEA. Can you also post Vidushi. Rama Ravi's talk session (of sorts), which happened, as a part of her 'Veena dhanammal tribute' concert, in August '19 in Mumbai, if possible?
Lashman Premi yes that is on the cards. We will share it hopefully soon.
@@devinadutt9967 This is a really good news. Thank you so much :)
My highest regards to everyone who came together to make this happen for us to witness and Time travel
Are you aware that your precious presentation and even the very recordings of the venerable Kishori Amonkar are most rudely interrupted by advertisements?
@Arun Dravid sir, could you please upload the version of Raag Bihari that you played in this session. Thank you!
40:20 Wow! The sargams aren't something I have heard at all often from her in mehfil.
The Nandshree is delectable and reminiscent of Bhinna Shadja.
39:00 Prof. M M Sharma!
From Where can i get all these recordings?
Dr.Dravid can I chat with you?
Saadhna of Kishori ji
40:00 - 41:00
Jai Shri Krishna
50:54 not allowed in bhoop?
That's not bhoop
This is a valuable service to the community, especially by Dr. Dravid but also by FEA. However, I would like to express my continued disappointment and amusement at the profound insecurity of my compatriots, whereby we can't seem to content ourselves with the wealth of our heritage but feel the need to belittle other cultures in order to maintain our sense of self-worth. For instance, in his justified case for the unsuitability of the harmonium for raga music, Dr. Dravid unnecessarily and superfluously propagates the mistaken belief that "western music" (which, by the way, is a grossly simplistic and vague term by which to refer to a diverse set of artistic traditions) is entirely based on equal temperament (i.e. dividing the octave into equal intervals). European music traditions, over their history, have seen much scholarly investigation concerning tuning conventions, going all the way back to Pythagoras. If they have mostly settled for equal temperament, it is because their aesthetics are more harmony-based than those of Indian musical traditions (where the emphasis is almost exclusively on melody rather than harmony). Tuning schemes with unequal intervals would cause certain chords (harmonic structures) to suffer from jarring dissonance, while equal temperament is a compromise whereby all chords suffer from a mild dissonance. Thus, this tuning scheme is a considered and reluctant choice based on aesthetic principles, and not a thoughtless result of an impoverished sense of tone discernment. I have seen similar criticism in the other direction, where Indian music is belittled for being bereft of harmony. All such discourse is to me nothing more than a manifestation of petty identity-based ego and the associated insecurity.
I agree with Mr. Varun that the Western tuning scheme is a "reluctant choice" to accommodate their fundamental musical system of harmony as against the Indian system of melody, regardless what genre of Western music you consider, i.e., classical, jazz, pop, country, etc. Due to its very nature of melodic structure, Indian music has had no need to make a reluctant compromise. The Indian tuning system from Vedic times has been based on ratios between various note frequencies to be fixed, rather than the tempered scale of equal divisions. It is an undisputed fact that a Raag does not sound as appealing when played on a discreet Western instrument like the harmonium, piano, guitar, clarinet, etc. as it does on a continuous string, bow or wind instrument in Indian music. Even instruments like the Sitar or the flute will sound appealing only when one introduces frequencies of choice (slightly different from the tempered scale ones) by the technique of pulling a Sitar string, or part opening of the air hole on a flute. Harmonium experts like Dr. Oke have in fact found a partial remedy to this problem by inventing a "22 shruti harmonium", where the octave is divided not just into the 12 standard notes, but also into their 10 more variants. The point I am making is that because in our melody-based system of music our ears have been so conditioned (by tradition) to hearing subtle differences in the frequency adoptations of the notes of each Raag, that a fixed tempered scale, while a compromise for the undiscerning listener, is not palatable to the connoiseur. I am myself an admirer and listener of some great classical composers of Western music like Mozart, Hayden, Vivaldi, Bach, Beethoven, etc., and I fully enjoy the harmony of symphony compositions involving a numbers of chords played simultaneously by a large orchestra, producing a lasting emotional impact, even though the tuning system is the standard tempered scale. I am not attempting to demean it at all. However, I am simply pointing out the fact that our system is far more complex, and hence the same Raag sung by different masters produces a different impact each time, which is mainly due to the small shruti differences and their treatment that varies from artist to artist making our music so much richer. If it were not so, artists like Kishoriji, Bhimsenji, Jasrajji, Bade Ghulam Ali Khansaheb and many others would not be what they were.
Arun Dravid sir, thank you for taking the time and effort to respond and clarify. I am happy to learn that you, for one, have not succumbed to the sort of narrow-minded rhetoric I alluded to above. I hope this spirit of open-minded curiosity towards all human thought proliferates and overcomes the polarizing sociopolitical forces of our times.
It's good to see the reply of Arun ji himself, as I was wondering that I have also watched the video, but nowhere have I seen him "belittling" the western tuning scheme, but only explaining how it is unsuitable for our Hindustani music.
@@akshunyabharti1059 thanks for sharing your thoughts. Please note that in the lecture panditji does not merely say that the even temperament or the harmonium is unsuitable for raga music. He makes a general statement that the western system of tuning is to simply divide the octave evenly: he gives no caveat or clarification on this statement (e.g. on the fact that his statement omits a rich and continuing history of alternative tuning schemes). To a viewer who has no exposure to systems outside of Indian music, and who moreover is exposed to the all-too-common rhetoric of jingoism in contemporary Indian art and culture, this would serve to reinforce existing sentiments of "other cultures are inferior to ours". I think this is dangerous, less because I feel bad for other cultures being misrepresented and more because of the deleterious effect this will have on our own culture. Therefore, while it is an unintentional omission by panditji (for whose engagement in this conversation I am deeply grateful), it has unfortunate consequences.
Itna English Britishers se hi aaya hoga
😂😂
He is a scholar from MIT
I have no clue why would he call it a 'Hindu scale.' I would sincerely hope no one paints Amonkar's legacy in a colour it's not supposed to be and never was.
even Jamey Aebersold called a certain scale the HIndu scale. It was common to speak that way in the 50's 60's and 70's. Its stupid. but it was the old fashioned way. There is also a jewish scale. and gypsy scale. But its offensively reductionist. Thank you.