Is this racing or cycling? - The current issue with Formula E
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- čas přidán 2. 11. 2023
- Apologies if my voice sounded a bit off in this video, I'd recently just recovered from a cold at the time of recording, and my voice was still feeling the after effects from it. Ever since its first season, Formula E has captured people's attention, including myself. However, I do believe the series has an issue right now, which I fear if it doesn't address, it could lead to serious consequences. In this video, I talk about that issue, and also the race which exposed this problem.
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FE in Monza would be hilarious, they'd either only go 20 laps or lift after just half the straights
There is a reason why there are construction works at Monza right now. They're trying to shorten the front straight
@@AnarRamazanov-po5le in my time F1 cars went almost 400kmh. we would go to the backyard and make some meat and kick some ball arround, while waiting for race to start.
Today it is all about nothing and "leave me alone" while hanging on a phone, alone in the room.
@@MyHandleDownThereOk
@@AnarRamazanov-po5le they will most probably race in vallelunga next year
@@danielesavino2619 when did you learn that?
I think it's absurd that we haven't had quick-swap batteries introduced. They're what's needed for electric vehicles to start competing in endurance events.
Too late, next year they will introduce fast charge pit stops
I believe the two main reasons are road relevance and cost. I can see it being the next step after fast charging though.
The batteries do weigh a lot and moving them to a position that you can swap from is not easy
😂 have been endurance racing for decades, but that shows everything you need to understand about electric vehicles 😂
Doesnt matter. Electric cars are gay as shit no one cares about this mickey mouse league with cars slower than 70s F1
Great video! Almost went deaf at 2:58 though. Please don't do the massive sound fluctuations. Make use of all the sound effects you want! Just moderate the volume slightly. Thanks!
Yes this!
Pack racing is not bad, it promotes action for sure.
The problem is battery regen is not advanced enough for track that requires high power usage yet.
Wrong. Pack racing is crap because it encourages crashing, especially crashing out others for the win, and raises costs and safety concerns. Furthermore, it makes all the excitement of a race potentially artificial if the reason for the pack racing is intentional. And the reason for the pack racing in Portland was very much artificial.
@GreenHornet553 don't get me wrong, I'm against artificial racing (exemple being DRS in Formula 1), but if pack racing happens naturally I'm fine with it.
@@djmustang000 I don't disagree, but this doesn't seem natural but rather a flaw coming to the surface given the design of the platforms among other factors.
the issue is not regen its 80%+ efficent. its that if the battery were to be run at f1 power levels it would last 5 minuets. the energy for an entire formula E race is lower than the out fast and in lap for F1 qualifying.
@@GreenHornet553 You really don't want to crash in openwheelers if you want to finish.
To be honest, FE has found a truly unique style of racing that actually makes them stand out even more in the world of motorsport , moving away from the poor driving standards of the gen 2 era to a more intense style of racing with the gen 3. I think it would be a very bad idea to try and reduce the pack racing.
I agree but it also shouldn’t be like it is right now with pack racing except nobody wants to pass the leader because they’re saving energy the entire race
Pack Racing isnt unique. Indycar had it on ovals for quite some time, but it was insanely dangerous and costing lives.
With FE getting faster every 4 years (each Gen), accidents due to the pack racing will become more prone and dangerous.
@@Cloney1337 Pack racing isn't unique. But pack racing on a road course is. I also believe that there is a big difference between pack racing on an oval compared to a road course, as the drivers are not constantly doing 200+.
how can not having racing in a racing series be any good for it? And what's more, if all you do is preserve, aren't you giving the impression that electrtic cars have laughable autonomy? I just don't understand. It just doesn't make sense....
Pack racing that emerges naturally is good, like Daytona in nascar, where the cars are very influenced by the drag of the pack. You know they are giving their best performances.
But having to slow down just to be able to finish a race, that is not as exciting and is a little bit "forced".
I'd argue that this extreme amount of preservation is the main thing FE has to set it apart from other series. It's long coasting and braking phases are what create great overtaking and tight battles, even on the most tight of circuits. Overly long and fast straits (by FE standarts) like Berlin, Protland or Sao Paulo are a track design/choice problem. And I don't think more permanent circuits with massive straits are fixing it. Much rather the oposite...
You're on point mate
Racing without intending to go full throttle?
Sounds boring.
@@EagleProductionsMK Endurance has existed for more than 100 years with that exact premise, and you tell me if the 24 hours of Le Mans isn't one of the most famous races around
@@EagleProductionsMK Is (imaginary) full throttle mini-formula-e:s good? They'd have same speed but they need to go full throttle to achieve that. Or would you like to hear conspiracy theory about that in WRC, they never haven't been driving full throttle. Heck why not put driverless drag racers with remote controls so they could go full throttle towards corners and beyond.
MX-5 racing has similar pack racing and it’s awesome, because the thing they are preserving is their momentum in low power and aerodynamically inefficient cars.
It's exciting because the preservation in that case is a product of driving as fast as possible, where in FE the battery preservation requires that you drive as _slowly_ as possible without losing places.
1:00 the best part of that crash, that nobody talks about, was they were WEC teammates at the time as well for rebellion racing.
It's interesting how certain elements of racing and preservation only take a minor detail and ruins the entire experience.
For example, in F1, some people complain that the racing is not close enough. The examples you gave for FE, are very much the extreme, where everyone is very close together for preservation reasons over racing. I'd say that in the current F1 season, preservation of the tyres is not only a winning strategy, it's something most teams haven't figured out yet. When you have Qatar, where the mandatory stint was 18 laps, other teams didn't have to watch their tyres. This caused a very minor concern for Red Bull, as their strength is tyre preservation.
At the end of the day, I go back to my first line. When you participate in sports, there's always a form of preservation, whether it's your stamina in athletics, energy in FE, or tyres in F1. But it can ruin the entire sport if not done right.
Part of it is the way of preserving. In F1 it is Tyres the limiting factor. Driving too close to the guy in front chews tyres and reduces aero performance, so drivers will actively try to keep a distance (this has improved with the recent rule change).
In FE the cars the limiting factor is energy use. THey don't produce much downforce anyway and so being close doesn't really cause an issue. Being close will give them slipstream which will reduce battery use. And so in FE they will try to drive close to save battery. This may sound like packed racing and thus good, but then you have the drivers actively avoid to overtake, which is beyond ridiculous.
In my opinion they should shorten the races to whatever distance will allow them to push for the whole race.
@@shama-llamading-dong5370 but if you do it just a bit better it can work. In the 80s not having enough fuel to finish was the norm in Group C(onsumption) racing and F1 turbo era. It had some problems, but many still remember the racing fondly.
@@shama-llamading-dong5370 just wanted to give an example that a consumption series with not enough fuel can work if done right.
I am not a big fan of EVs especially in racing either.
Racing shouldn't have any preservation. They should race to maximum effect the whole time. else what's the point.
@fuzzblightyear145 is impossible because there is always the weakest point.
Another issue Formula E has just created is the ability to easily watch races as, atleast in the UK, none of the races can be watched in full anymore on either CZcams or on Channel 4 :(
Instead, it's only highlights now on CZcams
I think that the batteries could get a bit bigger to encourage more "pushing" but I would much much rather have the races be like this than have them all spread out like f1, the battery levels create a lot of the overtaking right now, and if you gave all the drivers unlimited energy for a race, I doubt there would be as much action. As for street circuits, I think people over react to them, "its not what formula 1 or NASCAR would do" but street circuits are generally smiled upon here in Australia in the V8 Supercars series, and purpose built tracks can sometimes be seen as typical, and too easy for the drivers.
yeah close racing is better than spread our snooze fests, but they should add a bit more battery. it seems like the drivers are REALLY holding back and even a few percent increase in energy could allow for more interesting racing and strategy without spreading out the grid too much
or, just reduce the laps count.
Thing is, they would never get spread like f1 because it's still a spec series. Compare it to indy
I disagree. I might actually tune in for next season's first race to see the pack racing you described. I think it's a very unique way of motorsport and im actually quite interested now.
I think the issue is primarily that its really really dangerous, The only other motorsport where you get serios pack racing at high speed like this is Nasar, and that series gets away with it because the cars are built like tanks and is a borderline contact sport. I'm just imagining how badly somebody is going to get hurt if you got a Nascar style "big one" at a track like Monza and it makes my skin crawl. Formula open wheel cars just aren't built to race like that safely. Even when indy takes on the ovals the pack generally spreads out a lot more than Nascar does.
Hell even in cycling when the something goes wrong in the peloton the crashes are often massive. difference is big accident in the Pelton are normally happening at 30-40 mph not over 100. Plus unlike long cycling stages the reason packed pelotons are still exiting is because the nature of the stage means you are waiting for specialised GC or hill climb riders to make a play to break away from the pack and there's always some tension about when and how they will go or because its a sprint finish stage and the entire race is the teams trying to manage to keep their sprinters as fit as possible and in the best position to launch towards the end. Race cars don't work that way because FE circuits aren't comparable to cycle stages in any way and unlike a human being who can train for specialised roles all of the cars are built to the same spec with the same strengths and weaknesses.
Tbh I wished they brought back the pit stops method that was used within the 1st season of Formula E because it definitely provided and showcased some of the skills of endurance racing. If they can’t find a way to preserve the energy going back to the old pit stop format might be the best.
I actually like the pack racing. I think it's way more fun than how in other series the cars spread so far apart that there's no competing for position.
The problem is that you're rather prone to a huge crash. This is why Formula E doesn't race in circuits that have long straights. Valencia had a chicane in the frontstretch, and in Mexico City the long front straight is shortened (the oval "section" is used)
@@AnarRamazanov-po5lePortland had some close calls
@@lewis8552 this is basically what I wanted to say in the 1st place
What is fun in watching sprint race that does this ? There is always competing for position if some cars get a gap it could be many different variables as to why that is happening here it just doesn't matter.
I would say not too add a tire change as its not environmentally friendly but yeh a mandatory pit stop for a recharge could be good
Yeah It would be so entertaining to watch a bunch of cars sitting in recharge for 40 minutes. Great idea!
@comi9323 I'm assuming they will come up with some supercharger that will charge it in a few mins. They also don't have to charge it fully
@@davidhall5838 The plan is to charge something like 10% in 30 secs.
The batteries have a 51kWh capacity. The charger is able to run 600kW, meaning 600kWh per hour, 10kWh per minute or 5kWh in 30s.
While I think racing in street tracks is an issue, because of encouraging "contact racing" like Nascar, I think the problem was the double header in Valencia, where a lot of cars ran out of energy because of multiples Safety Cars and Full Course Yellows.
That valanecia was a proper cock up with the energy rules. They learnt their lessons though and have slowly been adding more permanent tracks to the calander.
ow wtf. The beep in the wallace cheese bit was so fucking loud my dude. That shit hurt my ears.
The sight of the first corner of the first lap at races such as Berlin, where nobody wanted to be first round the corner, followed by several laps of the leader encouraging cars to overtake them, probably lost FE a lot of casual fans.
I agree at some places energy management was too much. Sao Paulo shouldve been the maximum amount of lift and coast, whereas Berlin and Portland were a bit over board.
I do think that fast charging will fix some of these issues though. If places like Portland remain the same amount of laps the extra 12% battery they get will minimise the extreme lift and coast in those races (and help extend others).
I believe the fast charging can be used anywhere though and they were going to prioritise double headers where one race would use it and the other be more of a sprint race. Its currently being planned to be first used at Diriyah.
Loving the video so far, but please, please, please learn audio normalisation so I don’t get my ears blown off!
Biggest issue… I can’t see kids growing up wanting to reach FE over F1.
No one should watch F1. It’s so damn boring and it’s follow the leader after quali. It’s just far to political and about the car far to much
Millions of people watch it every weekend instead of this crap that I've tried to watch too many times. Maybe for some reason no?
@@elplan3605 Because F1 is a good reality show. I watch FE for racing, but F1 for drama.
@@connorbingel7134 Absolutely F1 is about the car, that’s precisely why I and many people watch it.
To see which is the best driver then there are plenty of spec series to watch like Indy or F2. For the life of me I can’t see what the attraction FE offers over F1 or F2 and I’ve watched a race every year since it’s inception just to see if things have improved (which it hasn’t IMHO).
Great video! Maybe one on Rallycross in the future?
i dont know if the regen is as much as it could be, but i think a way to do it better would be to have a much better much more efficient regen, and then limit it at the tracks racing is already good. but pack racing is important to FE
I do not want to eliminate this pack racing, this is exactly why it's different, it creates opportunities for people coming from the back of the grid who can benefit more than leaders from slipstream. Introducing more chaos and battling which is THE THING you'd want to see.
That's not racing ... that's just a circus ... What I want from racing, is to push as much as possible every single lap ... this is not racing.
@@TheAhille The thing is are you there at the finish line, when you run out of whatever is powering you. If you like pushing go hill climbing, time attack or rallying.
@@Dakkyunkinda wrong to say when you talk about racing dont you think the whole point overtaking eachother fastest drivers first? Go watch cycling if you want pack driving
@@martinberg3970 that's why we have qualifying sessions. The rest is left to the skills of the driver and physics. Slipstream is a natural byproduct of moving through the air. Everyone use everything to gain advantage, are they not allowed to slipstream ? How much do you want to manipulate physics to put on a show ? It's just artificial and that's not what we like.
@@Dakkyun thats not why we have qualifying but sure. Racing is not slowing ur speed by over 50% on a straight in hopes of someone passing you for draft thats not racing pushing and getting help from slipstream to overtake yes thats racing. If my mom had wheels she would be a bike? Is kinda ur view point here and its wrong. Theres a reason formula e is trying to figure this out. Again go back to cycling if you want that. It isn't racing as you said racing is 2 people going as fast as they can first one to finish. Not this.
Ive marshalled 4 seasons of the US (3x brooklyn, 1 portland). Portland was my favorite race. It was tactical and exciting and my first time seeing peloton racing. It reminded me most of a track cycling actually (elimination race or a Madison) it get chaotic and fun. I was in the crowd at the end of the race (I was a pusher getting the cars back to their garages) and the crowd was hyped for something completely different.
Formula E doesn’t want pit stops for sustainability reasons. I agree it would add to the racing, but I think most important are the tracks. Many small circuits like Zolder or bigger circuits like Circuit de Barcelona, Yas Marina etc. have alternative layouts that might work for Formula E. In my opinion the quick charge could be a bad idea, because when a battery is charged it loses some of its total storage capacity, and with quick charging that percentage is higher. Also, quick charge increases the risk of an electrical fire which is never good, so personally I’d prefer car swaps again, however that is expensive cause of the spare car. Formula E needs to get out of its comfort zone and do something they might not want, like introducing tyre pit stops, which out of the options to increase strategy and spread the pack a bit more is probably the best idea.
I think one of the causes for this pack issue limited tire choices. In F1 and other races the advantage of being in a slip stream is mitigated by loss of downforce and overtaxing the tires, however Formula E is a low downforce series with hardy all-purpose tires that can accept long periods of dirty air. However, Formula E made the conscious decision to enable close racing by their tire and downforce configuration so it's on them to figure out a better balance.
Nelson piquet is a legend and probably the cleverest pilot out there coming up with out of scale tactics to win without having the team or best car on his side
I feel a mandatory pitstop would drastically increase the amount of strategy interest in the sport. For example of cats charge was used then the debate would be about whether to do a fast stop to not lose track position but only get a little bit of energy or to do a long stop and risk losing track position in favor of being able to go flat out
Sounds like F1 when they had refueling. Certainly plenty of people still think that’s the way to go!
Glad to see more activity at PIR!
They still called it the 22-23 season because testing took place in 22.
There you go, that's your reason.
Either they can embrace it or get rid of it like you said. If they embrace it, they should make it easier for breakaways to happen by really upping the push to pass boost and maybe have the push to pass decrease in duration/potency through out its use so that you can play the game of trying to get out in front early and make a breakaway stick or sitting in and trying to win in a sprint finish (with everyone else). I think the biggest problem with this idea is the full course cautions as they automatically reel the breakaways back in.
All that being said, I think not having pack races is the way to go like you think. I don't know how to do that as there is no benefit to when use the power when it doesn't weigh anything and the tires are the same for all the cars across the field. Perhaps "refueling" your push to pass at a pit stop could add some strategy. Do you run the whole time with your stock push to pass, or do you make a stop and get some fresh push to pass (maybe used to react to a full course caution... if you don't need a refresh then you move up).
2:58 I feel like I lost a huge chunk of my hearing at this very moment
But isnt this what current F1 regulations are trying to achive to "bunch up the pack" , "close racing?" I feel like formula e has beat f1 to the punch
2:59 That's OK, I didn't need my hearing anyway.
Pit Stops to replace the battery pack could be an option… Just a thought!
the problem is the battery weighs basically 400kg.
Look at the first Valencia E-Prix, it was a disaster because half of the grid ran out of energy before the race ended, some didn’t even reach the finish line because of that
Great video.
Would love to see Formula e at Monza, though I do wonder if they would experience the same lunacy that F1 has during qualifying with everyone backing up down the final straight before Parabolica (or Alboretto as it's now called) in order to get the slipstream down the start/finish straight.
One little point though : there's no such word as "serieses". "series" is both the singular & the plural.
I like how Formula 1 does their streaming and CZcams highlights, it makes it approachable, easier to understand, and you can actally see whats going on on the Race Highlights videos (cough cough Formula E and Motorsports on NBC).
The term is "conservation"
And maybe 13mins is a bit long winded to make this point
My problem with Formula E are tracks. Always narrow street circuits with generic layouts. I would follow the championship more closely if they were racing in well known circuits, for sure.
I'm not a fan of preservation in motorsports. It should be as close to flat out from start to finish as possible. Tires will always force a degree of preservation and that works
They can put wireles charging strips in some corners of of the racingline plus the entirety of the following straight but in a sidelane.
I just love the wallace and gromit refrence
Another solution would be to have an anti-DRS where your energy level decreases more quickly when you're drafting the car in front to partially compensate for the actual energy you're saving. It'd be a pretty simple metric to approximate - take into account your speed and how close the car in front is, then subtract somewhere between 0-100% of the energy the drafter is saving. This would disincentive drafting and do so in a tunable way. As I understand it the energy % in FE is already partially in software (to allow for things like attack mode/etc), so this wouldn't be a huge change.
It's not surprising that it starts looking like cycling when the energy to spend is the limit, because cycling is also a completely energy-limited sport! The riders in the TdF are generally not going anywhere near flat-out - 100% of the strategy in cycling is drafting, especially on flat stages or downhill where the aerodynamic penalty for being in front instead of in the pack is at its maximum. Head-to-head track cycling takes this to the extreme where the riders might do 400m of a 500m race at nearly walking speed, and then jump to 70km/h for the final push. Every match is like a safety car restart.
At this point I wouldnt mind if FE goes full F-Zero, they've gotta have the telemetry for that by now. Drivers can choose to recharge their energy on multiple recharge zones scattered across the course off the ideal line, then burn those boost gauges as they see fit. Not as clunky as a mandatory Attack Mode or Pit Stop, but still introduces something that can be tweaked granularly to encourage skillful upsets.
0:54 the sound effect is from Driver San Francisco and it is just before Officer John Tanner gets into a coma
So to answer your question, I actually enjoy the pack racing.
The starts of the races can be a little tame comparatively sure, but I love seeing the excitement build towards the end of the race.
Although to be fair as batteries improve, so to will pack racing reduce; or as you said especially if they use attack charge in every race.
Although to be fair if there’s short circuits and the packs have enough energy I see no reason to add the mandatory 30 second stop if it’s only there to reduce the pack racing which longer tracks cause.
Im here to comment and like and SUBSCRIBE so ur awsome channel can continue to grow. ur channel is awsome and funny (funny like u give some nice jokes and dont make a big deal about it and rlly not too many jokes) Dont give up!
The plural of series is series 👍
Could they add some sort of heater in back of the car that is run when you are in slipstream or too close to other car. Thus actually dragging behind would mean losing energy.
I like the pellaton aspect, it's interesting. But I do agree for variation, they should change it up. Because, the pack racing often means you get a mad dash final sprint at the end for the win. The energy saving means everyone comes together at the end of the race.
The battery packs have plenty of storage to allow more usage in a race.
Because it's a spec battery, the efficiency isn't being developed and improved. This is why we end up with extreme preservation and racing at circuits with mickey mouse layouts
PIR is my “home track” and I got to see these cars rip around in qualifying but then just took around the track and like 75% effort. Cars weren’t on the limit and the drivers were avoiding 1st place like it was the plague. The race turned into an NBA game where the last 2 minutes were the only interesting parts to watch
They could alter the format a little and have shorter, more intense heats at street circuits and do longer, grand prix style races at circuits that allow quick charge.
Ive always liked the frenetic racing that heats made in Touring cars for example and it would lessen the need to conserve the battery as much.
Man the plural of series is series
The "100% Energy" allocation is an arbitrary figure decided by the series, it's not actually representative of the real capacity that those batteries can hold.
In fact, whenever there's an extended Safety Car period for example, in an attempt to finish the race under green at all costs they often extend the allocation mid-race and everybody "magically" replenishes some energy and the TV graphics get updated as well to reflect that.
In other words, the cars could technically be able to go the distance at full speed without having to really "save energy", but they have to do it because it they go below "0%" they would get penalties and, of course, with how artificially close the gaps are, even a 5 seconds penalty would mean for somebody to do a nosedive through the standings and easily finish out of the points.
Formula E is a joke to me. Not because they do not use combution engines (which some people have as their reason), but because of some other rules that are still in place or have been in place. Swap cars, fan boost, attack mode (like it is now), race directors decision of remaining energy after safty car, ... I really felt like watching real life Mario Kart.
But I like the idea of a formula series which is only e-powered. I understand the "attack mode" for it should be possible to overtake also with these cars. But what the hell is this about quick charge? I thought such a racing series should invent new technologies and be as sustainable as possible. The higher the power for a charge is, the shorter the life for the batteries are.
Why not allowing as many stops as they want to change batteries? If they find a good "plug-and-play" solution these stops will not take more than 20 seconds.Maybe they will find better ways and it will be much faster in the future. That might be also relevant for batteries for road cars in the future. It is, not for sure, a method to use electric cars more efficient.
I think they should implement a system where all the cars have an extra smaller battery which can only be used when they're in front. That way people will have an insentive to get into first place. It'd take a lot of tuning to make the speed increase almost the same as drafting that way people in front won't be able to pull ahead super easy and they should also make it so once they've made a decent gap like 3 seconds or so it gets deactivated and they have to go back to coasting.
It's kind of telling when formula open wheelers can be leagues more boring than single make series like the MX-5 or Clio cups.
The easiest way is to shorten the race a few laps. In that way there is energie to use.
I think having a way to recharge to all for the ability to need to preserve less would help. That would all of breakaways and the driver having to get a charge up the road soon than the others. If a driver wants to preserve till the last sprint to the line sure. It wouldn’t look as nice as a cycling sprint train but it would still be cool
There are so many ways to work around this, too. The concern about adding more energy is larger batteries which makes the cars look even slower compared to other formula series, which is also why they don't tend to run on formula tracks. Formula e has already introduced a bunch of gamey things that they could lean into for reducing this issue.
Increase the actual battery size without increasing the usable energy, allowing, for example, AR packets of energy to be released to the track in some way.
Rather than attack mode, add an inductive section of track that can be used to recharge the battery as you drive.
Battery quick swapping as an optional pit stop, with maybe a season total minimum rather than a race minimum.
The options are there. Formula E has thrived in experimenting with the idea of a racing series. Lean into it more.
Simple: add an extra battery, say 10-20% extra, that can only be used by the leader of the previous lap. This will get everyone interested in leading and create some interesting strategic decisions.
I still can't believe formula e aren't going back to cape town or Hyderabad. Cape Town especially instantly became a top 3 formula e track imo.
They managed to keep the Hyderabad race for another year. Cape Town still a big loss though, was a great track
they just need shorter straights even a temp chicane on proper circuits to get more regen and no more coasting on long straights
Thankfully the new charging tech that is being developed will help
A video someone else made said that teams themselves can't have indication of their cars' energy reserve without the media broadcast's HUD, just to get races more spicy.
Am a non-fan of electric engines but I accepted my ears to be pierced now 2 years ago, because two marques I care about started competing, McLaren and Maserati, and because did not like personally F1 spitting out names like Vergne, Vandoorne and Wherlein like used chewing gums. But anyway.
A consistent reason why the drivers often lost position on purpose to build ships with their own team-mates is that the car aerodinamically sucks, shape and winglets are there to show off and secondarily to create downforce, and not to have a more efficient cx(wich is the major concern of every showcar and low consumption model). As a result, the car in 1st spends maybe double the energy of the car in 2nd, with the sweet spot being the 3rd or under.
I do like close fields, they're a sign of a well thought rule-book, but this is not the way to achieve them.
Another thing, I don't beklieve about the F-e outgrowing street tracks, the cars are downsized against the current 'make it bigger' trend, and as long as they'll be electric(the reason F-e exists in the first place) they'll never be properly light because they'll be always carrying around batteries. Gen2 had overly complex 5 meters long boats(still better looking than their contemporaries F1 for the record) and there were no problems in Rome, that was a racing incident not tied to 100kwh more on a shorter chassis. They can cut street circuits entirely if that's the case.
Gen3 is using all-season tyres if you're wondering, not slick on purpose to stay close to normal cars.
Dunno about quick charge. If you're looking to ramp up the chances of a thermal runaway leading to an inextinguishable, self-oxidizing lithium fire, quick charge is the way to go.
Pack swapping would be impractical coz of the weight involved, and the central positioning of the packs.
Make the packs bigger, improve the KERS efficiency, and/or tweak the aero package so that energy preservation becomes less important. Effing about with high-amp electricity in the pits is just asking for disaster.
There was great race, season 2. Buemi staring and finishing second.
i want turbo pads. wireless charging built into the track that works when driven over. should be on straights and on suboptimal lines through corners. there could be second pit lane just for wireless charging that is speed limited.
does this tech exist? idk probably not. but it should for both public highway use and FE
Surely the easiest variable to control in the race length? Just adjust the number of laps to get the race in the desired preservation window.
How about wheel regenerating so on the straight the faster you go the more energy you regenerate you can have regenerating zones something like drs or just plain use the spin of the wheel to regenerate the battery it will give for faster and competitive racing
I don't think pack racing is a bad thing, I think it's an interesting dynamic for a motor race. But, there is a major strategic difference compared to cycling. In cycling the pace of the leaders is part of the subterfuge about how much energy the rest of the team has on tap. And because humans are variable, between teams and within teams, it's a means of preserving a tactical surprise. In this series where everyone has the exact same aerodynamics and kw/h banked, it leaves everyone exactly the same.
I do have a solution though, that's super simple: run some race simulations, and if the total energy required to run the race distance is too close to the total stored, then cut a lap or two(or several, depending how close it is) from the total for the day. Bam, now there's a much bigger margin for the drivers to play with.
Pack racing is a strategy, and the most skilled drivers can use it to their advantage. Personally, seeing a bunch of fast looking cars packed together slowly idling down a raceway isn't at all interesting. I don't know the tech or complexities of the sport, but they have to do SOMETHING to eliminate the coasting. Quick change battery packs, 4 minute quick charge pit stops??? Something...
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I actually gave up watching FE this season because I could see what was happening. It was becoming so dull to just watch all of the 22 cars pack for lap after lap, can’t imagine at how dull it must of been from the grandstands. Changes need to be implemented !
I remember the cars taking off a lot in formula e that first year. It's what made me love formula e. But the channel that used to show it was shut down so I didn't get to watch anymore.
I like cycling though, pack racing is fun.
An asinine suggestion, but make the quick charge a season long inventory. Where they have something like 25 quick charges per season to use, so every race strategy can be different for each team.
If the cars don’t have enough fuel (energy) for an entire race, then shorten the length of the race itself so they can have excess fuel (energy). The fact that IndyCar refuels and uses push-to-pass is why it’s the best open wheel competition so i agree with a battery swap or something like that
Just because it's different, doesn't mean it's bad.
Pack racing can be really good, it's how motor bike racing used to go. It's as simple as reduce the distance so that preservation is only needed if you've over done it.
Hoeveel rondjes doen ze 2?
funny is that claim they're pushing to cost cutting but keep going to tracks rubbing and crashing are often common and could lead to more costs to repair. I still believe they should race more in permanent tracks, but I guess they're still afraid of comparisons with the bigger open wheel series, given Formula E lacks pace even to F3 cars
Are you saying ''serieses'' as a plural for 'series'? :)
I would love to see what a formula e race looks like with no preservation. The field is clearly tight, and prople would always have a reason to overtake.
They had at a couple of rounds last season like that and they were a bit dull with minimal action. Jakarta race 2 was a shorter length and had pretty much no energy management and London Race 2 which was wet had none as well.
@lewis8552 ye but those arent nearly as quick as other tracks in terms of top speed
it would be interesting to see formula E run at 350kw. the problem is it will never happen because it would be embarrassing. its a 54kwh battery +40% regen +80% full throttle means it can be no longer than 15 mins.
You do really well making these videos! But to offer some constructive feedback: it seems that you struggle with running out of breath whilst talking, meaning the rhythm of your voice gets quite repetitive and a bit frantic. Maybe try breaking the sentences up or studying some breathing exercises.
Btw the italian race will not be in Monza or Misano, it will be in Vallelunga
I love FE, been hooked from the start too.
I get the point but still,
bit of a weird question in the title when racing and cycling aren't mutually exclusive.
I think the tracks they race also don't help, they should find tracks with shorter straights giving more regen opportunity and a lower loss of overall energy, the quick charge will solve it on regular tracks but they should race street circuits with shorter straights to negate the issue they have of no quick charge
"Series" is both singular and plural. Like "sheep".
Not "sheeps" or "series-es".
IMO this series would be better if they had a spec battery and safety cell, with everything else unrestricted. Let them spend their power however they want, sprint power, top speed, active aero, or wings. Let them innovate.
i mean yeah there is preservation in other series, but this is a ridiculous level.
honestly it feels like the teams/drivers just having to cope with the cars simply not having enough energy for a full race.
i mean thats still a different form of challenge i suppose, but cmon, nobody wanting to lead is a situation you just dont want in racing imo
I'm not convinced that the FE organisers have the visuals quite right. They whole thing screams range anxiety to me. I say pop bigger batteries in there and allow them to race at full speed.
I undertsand the issue but I also understand this is still a motorsport in development, and compared to the previous gens (specialy 1) they've done huge leaps in improving both racing and tecnology
It's not a dealbreaker for me so far mostly cuz the rest is still awesome and I am eager to watch proper development
Very likely we'll have a Gen 3 revision like Gen 1 had (and gen 2 had planned)
Pluss the quick charge stuff that will eventualy become easier and more portable to be incorporated in more tracks
10 years sound like a lot but tbh this is a pionering series, standing face to face with century old series which carry their own issues
One or two hick-ups aren't a dealbreaker
Sooner rather than later we'll have a formula e car that can last whole race distance at full throtle without running out of power or needing tyre changes, which is aimed to sustainability after all, the heart and soul of the series
Formula e is like that briliant rookie in F1 that almost got the tittle in his first season,
Not quite perfect yet but you know the future looks promissing
just some critical feedback. I'm 6 minutes in and so far it's a lot of fast talking without really getting to a point, let alone something that fits the video title. Might be something consider changing for future videos.
Mandatory pit stops are a step in the right direction. They are testing the waters next season which is good. You could also match or reduce the race distance by 1 or 2 laps to get a better match between energy capacity and energy need.
At the pit stop they will have a minimum stantionary time, but i fear that fast charging is not yet evolved enough. So everyone will use the minimum time and it will not be viable for the teams to maybe recharge longer and then go more full throttle for the rest of the race. I think this isnt even the goal.
Tyre changes are not planned. Due to the ecological aspect of formula e they try to use as few tyres as possible. They dont even use a dedicated wet/inter tyre.
Make Formula E cars be able to drive with 1 pedal only (accelerator) and make pedal shifters control the regen level. The regen will charge the battery and every time they lift the foot off, it will automatically activate the brakes and the driver can use the pedal shifters to increase or decrease the regen level. Sure it would be a learning curve for the drivers, but at least it would offer some challenge and could improve the racing aspect. But then again, I might be wrong as well. It can be argued that only Formula E would be able to achieve this due to regen braking being able to change the batteries which could be used to charge the boost batteries like in Formula 1.
they already do this, if they didn't do this they wouldn't be able to go the full race distance
I would watch this series if they are REQUIRED to change the batteries mid race.
Like- literally replace the battery pack.
At least once.
And no fancy tools. NASCAR style only.