Should English football adopt the Bundesliga's 50+1 rule?
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- čas přidán 22. 04. 2021
- Journalist Raphael Honigstein joins BT Sport's Premier League Tonight panel to discuss Germany's 50+1 rule that clubs - and, by extension, the fans - hold a majority of their own voting rights.
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It's the only way. World football needs to praise the bundesliga for that decision
England should call up Jeremie Boga he’s still eligible
Bundesliga isn’t flawless as well. There is an exception rule for Wolfsburg or Leverkusen, where big companies hold the power due to that they supported the club for over 20 years. Unfortunately RB Leipzig abused somehow the system and although only been founded in 2007 five RedBull members own the complete club.
England should do the opposite of what Germany does.
Theresa reason the EPL is better than bundeliga , that saying the Uk should copy singapore gov't
@@mutassimdaiaan5552 they already done that
Union Berlin is a great example of a traditional club. Built from scratch by the fans themselves who donated blood to raise funds to build their stadium by themselves. That's football right there. Look at them now. In their second ever season of the Bundesliga, they're fighting for European spot; clashing with the big teams. Not even Bayern could've beaten them this season. That's football. Tradition, fight, blood, sweat, tears. Money isn't everything.
We the fans need to take back our clubs from these "owners".
@Robin Truby no. Its still a business and it acts like business. Just big decisions are voted on by members and the daily business is run by competent but democratic voted chairmen that decide if they want to rent stadium fron their city, obuild one with their tv money or get a loan or whatever
@Robin Truby no investors make up 49% of the revenue and club membership makes up 51%.
Bayern fans own 75%, adidas and telekom own both 8% or something.
Its a good system that prevents fans from becoming consumers.
@Robin Truby German clubs like Dortmund, Bayern and Gladbach all got far in the champiosleague this year. Gladbach kicked out Inter and Donezk. And tbh I would never trade atmosphere and ownership for success. My club plays in the 3rd german league and we have a better atmosphere than the english graveyards. English fans dont matter to the owners. They are just like cattle that watch their game and do nothing more. No ownership, no fan loyalty, no fan activity, no passion.
@Robin Truby Aldi doesn‘t own anything in Bayern. Get your facts right.
@Robin Truby Dortmund also have big deals with Puma, Evonik, 1&1 Ionos and many more. Bayern have not been dominating the Bundesliga since its inception. The Pokal is a great example of this system working.
Games are cheaper to attend in germany too, stadiums were always full as well. They are definitely doing something better over there.
They have less money to bring in good talent
And the league is much less competitive. So as fans we have to be honest with what we want. It's sounds great to have 51%, but if that means we don't get the latest flashy player, then what?
@SFAAPK7 Who cares? I'd rather see teams compete legitimately. Besides the value of players would probably drop substantially as it's the continuous pumping of money that has raised player valuations to ridiculous levels.
@@SASMADBRUV7 for the clubs that have already been established, have a global fanbase, it would not be a problem. Premier league clubs already have a worldwide audience who will generate enough money to keep this competitive nature of premier league alive.
Like for my club Manchester United, we generate so much revenue bcoz of the fans. If the Glazers were not taking dividends out, our club, our players would have been even better.
So imo, when so many competitive teams (the "big" 6, Leicester, west ham, wolves, villa, Everton ) are already present, I don't think it would be a problem. I might be wrong but if we were to start a whole new league with new clubs with the German model, the competitive element would be an issue. But I dont think that would be the case with well established premier league clubs who already have a lot of fans across world to generate enough revenue
@@abhi8055. id say that mainly extends to the big six though. There's not (yet) a diverse set of west ham fans. But that's more tv rights deals than the 51% thing. The scary thing is that the bigger clubs can basically do the rb leipzig model with their larger fanbases. So it could get back to worse again. But still, I'd rather try it so we don't have another esl situation.
50+1 rule is an absolute necessity for English football!
England should call up Jeremie Boga he’s still eligible
Relegating the "big 6" is an absolute necessity for English football
@@bobbyears5604 yea, let's relegate the teams which are responsible for more than 50% of the viewership of thr league
Bollox
@@George-gg4pb 50? More like 85%+ lol
Love Raph, speaks so much sense on every topic...
Germany does not make sense.
@@mutassimdaiaan5552 Didn't realise Raphael Honigstein is the country of Germany mind...
Love what he said about Frankfurt at the end.
Its about time clubs were owned by the people that care about them the most, the fans.
Most fans are broke
@@wamnicho There are several options I think. One rich and invested fan can be enough or becoming a stock like Dortmund.
Sound good but a stupid idea, that saying let the citizens of a country rule
@@Akinwalesegun ???????????????
They are. FC United of Manchester was the club started by fans in 2005 to allow fans to be the owners of their club. There are loads of clubs like that.
I think the German model can also make each teams academies more important as it is harder to gain Money with the German model therefore teams might have to invest more in their youth and breed the next generation...just a thought
Agreed
Shouldnve been done years ago. Fans of all clubs need to keep our voices heard.
Football fans being able to decide about their football clubs should also be what football was about (It sounds dumb, but clubs already went down because of bad currents in the fanbases)
As a german fan the solution seems obvious. Make it so that premier league owners must live no more than 1000m from the club they own. 😉
Considering how rich the owners are they will probably just build their 5th mansion and live there for a month per year
@@makiste4216 They'll always find loopholes.
The billionaire hedge fund owners wont listen to fan reps on the board. They'll just conduct their business away from the board room.
But that's the thing. They can't do anything without the fans approval because the fans would own more of the club than the financial owners. So the without the fans backing they can't do anything to our clubs
They literally can't, that's the point of the rule
Im not saying which I prefer but I will say this is a big reason why Germany is always competitive in International competitions. They force clubs to develop within, have a large amount of domestic players in their league and it pays off on an international level.
Correct, the BL produce brilliant players, and in eventually they become bigger stars elsewhere
50+1 is what drew me to the bundesliga more than any other league. I still watch all over the world but more often than not in euro competition I'm rooting for the German squad because they represent more than one rich dude trying to just make bank
Like the last man said, I as a German am sad that the home land of football sold their soles because of money. Football is English everyone knows that but the football in England isn’t so English anymore. We should go back to the core idea of football. Back to the point when football belonged to the poor and not the rich. I’m happy to have the 50+1 but we in Germany also need to modernise it to prevent another RB Leipzig or Hoffenheim!
Everyone calls the bundesliga the "farmers league" but in reality its what football is all about, the fans!
Man United would do so well under this model. They generate significant revenue on their own merit. No need for an owner.
Exactly and that’s the way it should be. United have built up their brand over the years through sheer hard work and deserve all the success they get. They have done it the right way.
@@timeless4369 So they should now push for the 50+1 rule so that they can lock in their number 1 position forever??
Stan Collymore is engaging with Southend United's Chairman to discuss this possibility.
but we also had the problem, that we couldn't reverse engenier the rule.
we had luck most of our clubs were late to the game...
but for longtime stakeholders we have exception from this rule... Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim...
gotta respect and learn from the best 🇩🇪💜
YES PLEASE!!! *GLAZERS OUT!!! 🔰*
YES ALL THE WAY LETS DO THIS
ALL football should.
Yes. But we can't have people like DT , Troopz running football clubs.
What about the Wealstone Raider, he looks pretty clever, he wears glasses and everything.
Doesnt matter, football is entirely paid for by fans and so fans should have the greatest say.
Without kroenke killing arsenal DT would probably be a quiet, calm and mellow guy
Don Robbie should buy the club of Kronke outright, after the results this year he should have more than enough cash
@@killer2434 this is not true the owners pay, your ticket money is only a small fraction, broadcasting right is where most of the money is
It was Sky that created, introduced and managed the financial greed that now dominates English football. The PL is almost entirely foreign owned, foreign managed and played (primarily) by foreigners and if the easy money is stopped or redirected, they'd all leave like a shot. Now, good old Sky is portraying themselves as the saviours of the domestic game having just avoided being out manoevred by this SL idea. Slightly sad and ironic really, isn't it?
England should call up Jeremie Boga he’s still eligible
@@jandilanton8129 he plays for Ivory Coast and has been capped.
@@newrecruit100 no he doesn’t, he hasn’t been called up for four years, and he is still eligible to switch because of FIFA’s new eligibility rules
Yes!!!!!
Absolutely 👍👌
The rule makes growth slower that is true but I don’t think that is the reason for boring title races because that is unfortunately the norm across Europe. So I don‘t believe that to be a downside of 50+1, actually I barely see any downsides at all. Even a possible slight disadvantage in comparison to countries without 50+1 would not be an issue, would it be implemented in several major football nations, I do not see this happening though
the reason for the boring title race is the champions league money and TV money distribution.
The only reason why tottenham can keep kane and son while dortmund can't keep their stars is because of money.
Premier league billionaires killed the European football. Of course we need the 50+1 rule in every European league to balance Europe again.
It's not self regulation that's the problem in world football the lens needs to firmly focused on fifa and uefa especially.
The UK needs to encrypt the loop whole and keep it block it will have a rule that private investors have to sell 50% shares or be forced out of the league a complusory fan shares to be sold and also for owners of 50% to invest and spend 100-300 in the club every season!
Imo get rid of the transfer system it worked in the 1960’s but there is that much money in football it has become an easy device for teams to make extremely top heavy leagues
Put a law in place that forces all owners to spend a set amount of money that their clubs earn spend it on transfers and player wages. I also think that there should be a world wild wage cap so the majority of the money that clubs earn goes on new signings and not in owners or players back pockets. The money that clubs get for players has to be reinvested in buying more players.
If this happened United would probably win the league every season and that’s why I want this law to come in 🤣
Wage and Transfer spending caps.
Wish the population would be as passionate about the way this government is treating us as much as the Fans are about their clubs. We’d never have no one mug us off with reactions like this.
So true, imagine if we responded to political issues like this how much more would we control what's going on in this country. People are way too apathetic about the world outside football.
@@inghell it’s just these protests suit the government, by keeping the money in the uk so fans protesting is ok for them, but the minute we decided to do this about the way they’re running our country into the ground we’d be silenced.
I seen an anti vaccination passport March today which I think is great, 1000s or people turned up but the media just won’t cover it.
Tickets will be much cheaper if the 50+1 rule is applied
Yes
Sky and BT would not want to implement 50+1 rule because of economics.
Yes.
that will only create a one team leauge the tems with the most fanbases will rule the leauge
As a Chelsea fan I hope this gets implemented for all clubs.
Apart from Chelsea.
BT with the btec Gary and Jamie
yes plz
English football is a rip off since the Premier League and Sky Sports.I have been to several European Games in Germany and it makes me sick how cheap it is.WEll done to our German friends who know how to look after their fans
Germans are always years ahead of the rest and more street wise always have been always will be
By letting Bayern win every season?
@@blackmantis3130 I mean unlike any winner in the premier league they actually work for there success instead of throwing money around
@@makiste4216 What?! Which club has the highest wage bill in the Bundesliga? And has had the highest wage bill every year of the last 9 years where they've won the league.
@@Monaleenian Yes but they earn it. They don't get money from some oil billionaire. Premier league clubs have no idea how to spend money. Look at chelsea, manu etc. They spend billions over the last years without any success. If they needed to work for their money instead of calling their sugar daddies they would have learned to handle their finances and wouldn't need things like a super league.
@@Monaleenian We know how to spend our money unlike the prem clubs. Our CL winning squad cost us 100mil while harry maguire cost 87mil
England should call up Jeremie Boga he’s still eligible
Yes take advice from the best league in the world
So who's gonna pay the current owners off for their 51% share? This is a great idea but unless people are willing to pay off the current owners who have a majority share in the club, this is meaningless.
Exactly mate, there is no way they will give it for cheap, for example man utd is valued around £3 billion, so at least £1.5 billion is needed to take over their share
Not happening I doubt these Billionare owners would be willing to give up 50 % of thier clubs
This video should be one second long: "yes" if the clubs are controlled by people who love the game, everything will be fine.
They should Germans are clean and fair.
50+1 looks great on paper but all it will do is solidify the top 6 position at the top. Leicester would never have won the league without their foreign owners and the aguero moment we all love would never have happened either. The only real way to level the playing field properly is a Europe wide salary cap with all major decision having to be voted on by season ticket holders and club members
How’s about stopping BT and Sky having so much to say about football get football back to 3 o’clock kick offs
Would 50+1 stop big investment? The money might go elsewhere (Spain, Italy, France for example) and the premiership could lose some big players and it's appeal. But maybe that would be a good thing?
I see what u mean, as a chelsea fan, Abramovich has done so much for the club. Hopefully this isnt a deterrent.
Not necessarily. They can still own 49% of the club in that regard.
The 50+1 rule means marketable clubs will be the only ones able to afford certain players and the league will just a monopoly just like the bundesliga.
The league positions of clubs would come to be locked in stone over time.
As if having clubs pumped with oil money win it for every season is fun.
PSG Owner - buys Mbappe & Neymar
City Owner - we cant afford a Striker
Too late to do that now 🙄
Money is important but is not everything... Think about that. England has to look at these issues and see if they still wants to keep this system. The government will need to cover the cost of putting FSG and Glazers to 49%. It is possible but then things will change.
This is the only solution,
There is no reason other rich fans and investors can’t pump money into the clubs as well, despite not having sole ownership. They still make the same percentage on their investments.
Why does it always have to be a "rich FOREIGN owner"? Why don't rich British people want to own clubs? I don't get it at all.
Rich british people don't live in England lol
Oil money. It's more about the image than about foot ball
"Root and branch" screams bullshit.
TAX PAYERS are not bailing out football
This should definitely be done. I can't wait to watch the same team win the premier league for 9 straight years! I also hope that Abramovich, Sheikh Mansour and all of the other owners who pumped money into their teams take all their money back on their way out. That'll be good for English football right? The total collapse of half the Premier League (Chelsea, Man City, Everton, Wolves, Sheffield, Villa, Brighton, Southampton, CP, Fulham)? Stupid!
Yes great idea. I'm sure the international fans will love spending collectively billions of hours of their lives watching a glorified annual procession!
Union, Kiel, Frankfurt and Mainz are doing alright. I don't know how it's going to help the rich more than the poor.
It's a vicious money circle.
More tv money- higher player prices-better players-more tv money. How will it end? In the end its the avarage Joe that pays because we end up having to pay amazon, sky, bt sport over the top prices to watch a match. They need to take the greed out of football some how
Will never happen in the UK. BC of the current owners their. And their money in the clubs..
Yeah not happening. People living in dream land.
Bayern win every year due to the way broadcasting revenue is distributed not because of 50+1.
50+1 stop other clubs from competing, who is 2nd in bundeliga?the club that subverted 50+1
@@Akinwalesegun And the team that hasn't is first. Your correlations are spurious at best, the Number of films Nicholas Cage makes annually doesn't influence the number of people who die by drowning in a pool annually.
And they get so much money from European competitions. The pl put so much money in the game blew the whole game up. That’s why successful club in European stage are so dominant in their leagues. The prem destroyed European football by putting billions of dollars in. The dominance of Bayern, PSG or Juventus started when the prem got so much money from investors and Asian marketing. That’s no coincidence
@@Fabii2000 correct
@@GHOST5691. thats why I’m all for a uefa 50+1 rule. Football is for the fans not for capitalists to make money.
Who is hoovering around Rafa ?
Henry
@@timeless4369 your on a roll..
2 late , really believe these owners are gonna give up stake in their clubs??? Who's deluded now.
If this rule existed in the premier league then a club like Arsenal would be much higher in the table with more success
Absolutely, in keeping the game safe for generations to come, it has to be.
The prem could become like the Bundesliga and be super predictable. Like imagine man city winning the prem every year. It could stop growth and investment. But i can see the appeal tho
It's a novel idea but I think it only works because of German football fans.
And German culture generally, which has a less individualistic mindset.
@@toomuchinformation something English football lack heavily
“Some fans love it when their club spends 100 million on a player” No teams apart from the “big 6” do this, most fans are lucky if their club owner spends 20 million in an entire window!
Just not true though is it. Maybe 10 years ago but certainly not now, 20 million is standard for a transfer these days and most clubs outside the top 6 have made a 20 mil signing
@@danielleather3915 Man utd spent 700 mil last 5 years. Newcastle crystal palace burnley and wolves combined spending last 5 years 655 mil.
Safemoon!!!
After the 90's i stoped watching jr league. No on believes me but its true. I dont give sh about the premiere league. Do whatever u need to do. Maybe with right actions i will watch the premierleague again leeds and newcastle! Mia san mia bayernfc
The fans love having the billionaire owners, but they don't like the baggage that comes with it. Just another day for the Maggie generation to have to comprehend.
Never ever going to happen in this country. Entirely different culture in Germany. Fans are deluded. Certainly not for Premier League teams
In Germany, not all is gold either. RB Leipzig is a good example that an investor can handle 50 + 1.
To rephrase what Raph said, most ppl in Germany hate them for it
@@nemziz8621 most? Try all lol
Yes!
Will never happen the club's are worth too much
Why would we want to follow a different league we have the best players in the world because off are rice owners
Because the league is becoming predictable.
And most of those best players have come from Bundesliga genius
@blablabla stop smoking crack, your best players are from the BL, and your coaches😂
Your best players are from the BL😂, hell even the BL coaches own that EPL now👏
When last have england produced an English coach worthy of being praised amongst the top guns
Not gonna happen. Today clubs are international brands and just be promoted by someone. Now try to kick out Abramowicz and those two Arabs from City and Newcastle as example.
50+1 will not make the football as a whole richer so english football will need to accept that as well......
He’s got the blinkers on
Yes we should adapt the german model.
Wages are out of control..admission is too expensive....the players are playing too many games...they are not machines.
Stop this money motivated machine and lets get real.
Look after all the division's...share the wealth.
AFC WIMBLEDON
Great joke
Why does the Bundesliga always get held up as a perfect model for a league? Regardless of the circumstances around finances etc, the result is that one team wins every single year. Most of the other teams are rarely even close to Bayern. They’ve won the last 8 titles and only missed out on the title 7 times in the last 25 years. What a great league
THAT'S NOT BAYERN WIN EVERY YEAR. Check out the new video by "The Athletic".
Well, if Dortmund would have kept Lewandowski, I think it would look different, but they didn’t. They didn’t bothered to pay him more.
Hummels moved from Bayern to Dortmund as he said he likes a challenge
@@tomaszstarzZz all the good players just end up at Bayern, Gotze, Hummels, Lewa, Goretska, Neuer, Sule
Loads of this is rubbish cause, companies, like Bayer & wolveswagon
The difference in that is that these companies of wolfsburg and leverkussen have been there from the beginning. Its employees have founded the club and not some owners from foreign countriesm
Unfortunately I worry if the fans owned 50+1 of the shares, the clubs wouldn’t be receiving the same financial aids they do from their owners. And however much people complain about owners, the fans don’t supply the millions to buy players. And every summer, every fan shouts at their club to buy more players. It’s a tricky issue
The clubs make money themselves, stan kroenke and enic put no money of their own into the clubs, it's all generated from corporate deals, ticket sales and tv rights deals.
@@user-ei5sv3pb5g city owners have pumped in 1billion. Abramovich about 360 million. The fans can’t put that money up. Simple
@@user-ei5sv3pb5g any reply?
@@thefluffypanda2 should not ne allowed under financial fairplay. Bayern compete on the highest level each year
It’s necessary but not to the extent of what the Bundesliga uses, imagine Bayern have won the league nine times in a row , o don’t want that in the prem
wow. City, Chelsea and new castle will dominated in a longterm perspective
Lol what about when Utd were winning all those titles with Sir Alex. It was the same thing 😂
Omg, why is he blinking so much?
The hoover in the background is distracting him
Reptilian
We love to mourn, it is very sad when clubs are murdered by gangster chairmen but for some reason we love it! English football is the greatest story ever told, even Scotland love football, we love the arguments and the drama concerned around our clubs, big or small, let's get back to rating pies at half time and calling their beer dishwater coz its 80p dearer than at home, aaahh football .. Love it!!!(only in England)
Negative: Rich Clubs like Bayern always are on top.
rich clubs are also on top of the EPL. the EPL just has more rich clubs.
Mate, even the EPL has that problem.
Bayern earn their money, EPL top clubs are spoilt with billionaires, huge difference
This model also helps keep Bayern on top of the rest of the league because that 49% is owned by adidas and Audi. No other team has backers with that much cash.
That is not true. Adidas and Audi both own 8.3 %, not 49 %.
@@hackbrettschorsch6855 yup. I saw that after I said that. However, they are able to pay out significantly more than any other sponsors.
Bayern's success has nothing to do with large companies having an ownership stake in the club. It's just the inevitable end result of the 50+1 rule. 1 team on top(They might finish 2nd or 3rd the odd year), forever.
@@Monaleenian it's not the 50+1 rule lol. It's the consequence of the Prem getting a huge cash injection. That ruined the standard of European football.
Turning english football into a paradise for investment ....🤣🤣🤣
Wait, hasn't the PL already turned into a paradise of investment? With Man City and Chelsea and all?
@@OcEleven and now Newcastle
*We could sell our souls to the devil! Oh yeah we already did that. To all the people that their football team is their life. Sad. Get a life.*
Premier league want to be like Germany, one team league 😶😶😶
I´m sorry Rapha no german does think that about english clubs............
germans are not a hive mind. Everybody has their own opinion.
This is a horrible idea
Nope it's a great idea because its means the clubs are truly owned by the fans and whoever is at the President of that club can be voted during every election.
Both models are bad tbh