Functional Aikido vs BJJ • Aikido Kotegaeshi + Pressure Testing
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- It is clear to those training functional martial arts such as BJJ that Aikido is difficult to apply due to it's training methodology, yet what if we would apply the training methodology of BJJ to Aikido? In this episode of Functional Aikido, Nathanael Chawkin, a long time Aikido/BJJ practitioner introduces and teaches me Aikido techniques that he discovered which work in BJJ and how to apply them as later we move into pressure testing them in BJJ type of grip fighting match.
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#aikido #bjj #martialarts - Sport
Did I miss where homeboy explained why he was wearing a life preserver?
@@DanTheWolfman Hey, it's the Wolfman! Haven't you kote-gaeshi'd a few people?
Safety first, not every sparring match is an MMA title fight.
cuz these techniques are TOO DEADLY for pressure without protection. Should ohly be tried ON THA STREETZ
To avoid death by accidentaly letting loose the deadly quivering palm technique
he comes from the future, his car is a delorian
Most of you missed the point. It was pressure testing but you have to understand just what it was that they were testing. They were not testing whether or not the wrist lock will work in a street fight. They were not testing whether or not a wrist lock is the right move for self defense or even if it's effective for self defense. They were simply testing to see whether or not it could be pulled off with a limited amount of resistance and a specifically designed rule set. The rule set was designed to make it a bit easier to have a chance to get to the position needed to pull it off. That's perfectly OK. You need that kind of limited resistance drilling in order to build up enough skill with the technique so that you can do other kinds of testing.
After a bunch of rounds of this you would know whether or not you can pull the technique off within this particular rule set. The next step would be to add more kinds of resistance by upping the energy or changing up the rule set. This would allow you to try it with striking or other takedowns or grabbing etc. What you can't do is learn something new and then throw the whole kitchen sink at it. The progressive way Rokas is drilling it here is the best way to mastery and discovery. Start with a rule set that allows frequent success against resistance. Once that is achieved change it up by adding different kind of resistance to see if it reveals any holes. Fix the holes and drill again. Repeat. If you reach a point where at a certain kind of resistance it completely falls apart it may be time to throw it out and look for a different answer. What you see here is the start of that kind of exploration. Well done!
cane prevost so.....your claim that these people missed the point missed the point. It’s martial arts. Whether it’s the first step of many or not it is still supposed to have the goal of finding the martial truth of the technique.
it looks like an aikido Lab R&D for the next generations a critical thinking and sparing session questioning the proper set ups for kote gaeshi, isolate, integrate, and improvise. another great moment of thinking aikido delivery systems into the future.
I can save people reading the comments. Some people didn't read the tittle. It's aikido vs bjj not street fighting so stop saying just punch them in the face. Some people think it's another joke video. Some people think it's not enough of a pressure test. A lot are triggered because their aikido is better and would work for them. You're welcome.
Punching somebody in the face is a perfectly valid tactic in aikido! Morihei Ueshiba did say at various times that "Aikido is 70-90% atemi!" (he didn't always state the same percentage each time he mentioned it, but it was always a high percentage).
What I like about this video is that it takes a very "simple" or "basic" technique and demonstrates how much work it takes to actually pull off this technique. I remember learning koto gaeshi as a white belt and being told it was "very difficult" to pull it off in live sparring, but there was never elaboration on what that means, or how to make it LESS difficult. People just said it was hard to do, and that's why it was never done. Yet for some reason it was a basic technique.
I like the idea of aikido as a kind of goal to reach through martial training... rather than a specific martial art.
I studied aikido. Every one had a black belt in at least one other style and they used it as a supplement to there other style. So I think the real problem is people think you can use it as a primary style of fighting. You should remember the founder of aikido was a "master of " both judo and jujitsu. Before coming up with aikido or so I read. I found it fun and learned to fall.
@Sam Vimes dont know
@Sam Vimes Jujuitsu is just Japanese martial arts - it's an umbrella term, like Kung Fu. It's not a specific style.
Aikido comes from Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu, and was originally just called "Aikijujutsu". Morihei Ueshiba also studied a lot of other arts, before creating Aikido, including Sumo (from a very young age), Judo, Kitō-ryū jujutsu, Shinkage-ryū, Gotō-ha Yagyū-ryu, and Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū.
@@PhilipZeplinDK I thought budo was the umbrella term? As far as I know jujutsu is a bit more specific than that, being the unarmed techniques used by the samurai. This is why grappling techniques are usually emphasized; it's not as effective to punch and kick someone wearing armour and weilding a sword. But if you can get in close with your swordsmanship and throw them, it will be easier to kill them on the ground. These tactics are found in HEMA as well (specifically longsword.)
@@chaos_omega Anything with "do" at the end, is "the Way of", anything with "jutsu" at the end, is more of "the techniques of". So "JuDO" is "The Way of Judo", and "AikiDO" is "The Way of Aikido", whereas "Aiki-Jujutsu" is "The Techniques of Aiki-Jujutsu", so to speak. Both however refer to martial arts, and both can be used for the same art. An art can be both a "jutsu" and a "do". Often they will say that the "do" follows many years of training it as a "jutsu".
"Jutsu" can refer to both armed and unarmed techniques.
Specifically unarmed techniques, if you want to really go there, would be "Taijutsu".
Jujutsu is generally considered the "mother art" of all currently existing unarmed Japanese martial arts, including Karate. It is "the original grappling art", so to speak, but has always (and still does, in almost all styles) included punches and kicking. It has changed and adapted over hundreds and hundreds of years, to fit into whatever society needed at the time. Even Aikido officially has punches and kicks. And yes, Aikido is also under Jujutsu, in as how heritage goes.
Armor and weapons has changed a lot in Japans history, but you're correct that specifically Daito-Ryu, which is what Aikido is based on, focused heavily on anti-sword techniques. It was not, however, really a "battlefield" art, to my knowledge. It was more of a "OK, so you're sitting in front of the local Daimyo, and you're not allowed to get up no matter what due to etiquette, and some dude just pulled a sword: what do you do to up your chances of survival?". That's why you train sitting against an attacking sword, in Daito-Ryu, as an example - different times, different priorities, huh!
Most of O' Senseis Aikido was just simplified Daito-Ryu, basically.
This is a hard drill, but usefull. The most important part of applying a technique IS KNOWING WHEN TO APPLY IT. So, in this scenario, they are forcing the technique into a position where it may not be best one to use. This has benefit, after repitiion you will learn to feel when it is there, when it isn't and not try to force it when another technique would work. Excellent video !!!
shihonage, ikkyo, sankyo, lol all work well in mma and bjj-I've used/use them often
Another excellent video. I am a bit in two minds as whether this is true pressure testing. The technique can easily be countered by striking or closing in. The mechanics of Kotagaeshi need to be taken into account as well. If you're just twisting the wrist it'll never work. It's a tough one to gauge. Do Irimi Nage next!! :)
This is why I keep trying to tell everyone that traditional arts need to have MMA as your foundation. Every time someone try and pressure test the fantasy arts by itself it always look like bad MMA, bad, judo, bad wrestling and bad BJJ. People need to stop being stubborn and just be functional in stand up clinch and ground so all your techniques are pressure tested
wrist techniques work without striking if you only turn the wrist 90° (rockyo) , beyond that the mind kicks in and stops the lock. They only work (180° wrist lock) if you strike first. The only other one you can force on is a jujutsu shoulder lock (ends like shionage, but without ducking under the arm).
Sohrab Kazerooni “true pressure testing?” It’s definitely a pressure test, more so testing the individual’s ability to perform the technique against levels of resistance. Pressure testing has levels/steps that should gradually grow in resistance/force till the necessary level.
“Easily be countered by striking?” How so?
I like these videos, it's cool to see you try these techniques now that you have a more broad perspective and more experience with striking.
Happy to finally see you two together!
I only want to add a short comment, based on other comments here, and it's only a little relevant to the video: I've never ever seen a martial arts technique that couldn't be countered, if countered correctly. There's always people saying "but you could punch him in the face right then!" or something, but that's a bit like saying "A punch doesn't work, I can just move my head and it misses!" - but we all know fighting doesn't work like that. Shit is difficult.
I love it! I love that you realized you shouldn't abandon everything from aikido. I recently started bjj and my aikido is definitely useful.
Not preassure enough. Still a good video. keep testing
@Sam Vimes Yes Dude. Or maybe just a Roll with a preassure enough. I used to use aikido moves in a bjj class just to ajust some movements and search some advantajes and good angles . Never to finalize.Altough aikido students thinks they aikido movements are usefull to finalize. I think they´re not. That´s how it worked for me
@Sam Vimes I agree with you. Every fight in real life starts with a fast strikes, punch and kicks or even a double leg. If the system dont prepare the student for this situation it become dangerous.
Again guys this is a start, it is not an all solve problem here. It is true you do not want to stay in this type of training forever, you build up to the next step perfecting the technique.
Thiago Becker yes but mid fight they might try to grab you and you might be able to pull this of if you time it right but I’d say it’s good to have judo throws as a backup
Can't wait to get to blue belt so i can finally use kotegaeshi
Hello. I know it was 4 month ago but your comment question me.
I do aikido for 10 years now and I learn kotegashi on meaby my third lesson. Could you explain me what technique you learn that is not "for your belt" ? Trully wondering. Thx
Why would you wait? Is it not allowed in your rolls as a white belt?
This is really interesting! In my style of Jiu Jitsu we train very much with that pressure-testing mindset which these videos are telling me is quite BJJ-esque, but we also use a lot of Aikido-style wrist locks and I've been really trying to think about genuine functional applications of something like Koteghaeshi because, as they say here, you're not catching a punch so that goes out the window. Great material, thanks. Definitely stealing that Uchi-komi style wrist lock training for my classes! :)
To be honest: this looks almost exactly as some standard training in dojo I'm attending to. I'll repeat after one of the comments - you guys are reinventing the wheel.
This video proves previous training methodology bad. Good thing is that you keep improving :)
I wish I could see more randoris like this but with all the techniques to be used. 5 x 3 minutes rounds
It’s pretty easy to block almost any technique when you know the other party is limited to it only. Without some element of surprise it is a challenge to unseat the aggressor’s center and virtually all Aikido techniques will encounter resistance difficult to overcome. Moreover, your body position and mechanics relative to the aggressor are poor, making you vulnerable to secondary attack.
When you become fixated on applying a particular technique, you’ve pretty much lost.
Great video Rokas! Great insight at the end, “the way to Aikido is through ju-jitsu...” I can relate 💪🥋
Few things...
1. Great to see all the experimentation and pressure testing! Love watching the journey.
2. I am curious as to how effective the technique would be if either attacker stepped into the attacker w a shoulder or headbutt once the wrist is grabbed. My thought being this could throw the opponent off balance or hurt him enough to distract him from the real wrist attack. Something worth trying... I think.
3. The manuevering for wrist control seemed to take a long time to implement (ur both trained and expecting it which makes it more challenging) so the consideration/question could be is this better suited as a sport application or real life? (Another reason I think this testing is great)
4. Are there other slight attacks that can be used to help implement the technique? I.e. kicking, tripping, elbow to face...
This is interesting, but I think he made a mistake when he said he wasn't going to turn into the Kotegaeshi. Ideally you want to grab the arm > tenkan round WHILE pulling the arm down, this avoids pucnhes (he'll be too low to hit you) and throws the uke off balance, the Kotegaeshi is then yours for the taking! Great that you're developing testing methods for these techniques though!
Great teaching guys!
I'm looking forward to another randori with the two of you. Ideally one where Rokas activates some of that inner Mike Tyson fighting spirit beforehand. We all know you've got it mate, but for this last session it was buried under a pile of friendliness and respect ^^
Wtf?! Dear rokas! Kotegagashi as other technics in aikido do not exist without disbalancing, its like to test punch without revers or hips moving
Can you film a video of showing it with a live resisting opponent who knows Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?
@@MartialArtsJourney no, i cant, i just try to fix the imho strange way u going; what do u think about idea, that training in aikido means create common form of uke and nage, when bouth are moving in defenit way? U cancel uke's role and try to pressure test "nude" locks just trying to grap wrist. But your partner can hide his hands backwards - does it mean that kotegagashi not working? The only way to pressure test aikido technics is real sparring, but its immediately makes mma from akido. That's why aikido never will be a sport or selfdefence imho, it is a laboratory for discovering the theory imho imho))
@@MartialArtsJourney from BJJ of one Gracie one time i linked You... not wristlock but "aikido" "feeling of movement"...
@@MartialArtsJourney haha, man that would be something wouldn't it
You guys should keep going adding complexity. Try both going for the throw, then try with different throws being allowed, and the takedowns
That's one of the filmed next steps
This is the first time I watch something about Aikido that makes sense!
I really liked this video. I always tell people to not lose their uniqueness when you go to MMA. Latoya Machida is learning more about that issue as he is bringing his Karate back more and more. My suggestion, after some pressure testing, is to use combinations to set up the lock. The thing with BJJ is it is an art that uses defense to grind out the offense with fewer combinations of attacks. It's why they don't give stalling penalties at most tournaments. Judo and Aikido are actual attacking arts, you use multiple combinations of attacks to get throw or lock. You get penalties for stalling. It's how you create chaos. Within the chaos is where Judo and aikido will work. You need to figure out setup strategies that involve the rotating or dragging of the opponent with different styles of attacks between judo and aikido to hit the aikido attack you want. But in a sense, you need to always attack, multiple different ways, and not think about your guard to create chaos. Once you do that, BJJ guys will just pull guard. They will want nothing to do with you because they don't spend enough time on their feet. And then you'll need to figure out Aikido locks on the ground. Good Luck!
i practice taichi and we have something similar. when someone let's say goes for your wrist, you can defend by extending your wrist structure into your elbow, so they have to throw your elbow instead. when they engage your elbow, you extend into the shoulder etc etc. the first attempt is easily disengaged if it aims only at the wrist. however if you use the wrist as a tool to throw the centre it is much harder.
What a difference in execution, Rokas. Just watch carefully how he throws you and compare to your version. Every time he threw you, he did it from the same position - standing next to you side by side, facing the same direction a you, pulling your hand down, constantly rotating, and then swiftly turning the entire body in the opposite direction. You, on the other hand, just went for the arm without any body movement. No wonder you could only throw him when he let you do it. Where is your 13 years of training? This is supposed to be in your muscle memory by now - enter, turn, throw out of balance, apply the rest of technique. You demonstrate nothing of that, not even an effort. Are you so embarrassed of Aikido you can’t event try to do it the right way? Even with a person who is willing to play by the rules, like in this video? At this point, I think you should admit that your training in Aikido was very bad, stop calling yourself an Aikidoka and start from scratch. MMA, Aikido, Judo, even Ukrainian Hopak - doesn’t matter. You need a good teacher most of all.
Thank you for pointing this out, I've been wondering who was this guy's teacher? Sadly, at seminars I've seen alot of watered down waza done like he is doing it. I think a big problem is alot of Europeans ( and North Americans ) went to Japan, studied for a year or two, went back to their own countries and started acting like a god amongst mortals when in reality they were Shodan or Nidan. Only proficient in the basics but not grasping the higher concepts so they could not teach them to the next generation. And the end result is.......well this.
Old school, kihon kotegaeshi. Step round the square. Same grid for sumiotoshi. Nostalgic.
lm glad Rokas mentioned that besides the pressure testing he also may not have been taught the proper mechanics of kotegaeshi itself.
really like the approach you guys have for this, keep it up!
Best Aikido video ever.
The way it has worked well is from a cross-wrist grab, then pulling it away from them and “off the centerline” like y’all did, then when they try to pull their arm back (reaction drills) it becomes very easy....plus a leg block or foot sweep won’t hurt. I’ve hit it in bjj and wrestling against top guys....though only once on the good guys because they understand and adjust. Contrarian techniques can work well once it seems
Don't know why he's so fixated on Kotegaeshi when Nikkyo is easier to get from a cross-hand grab and instead of being a throw, it's a standing submission
Tbh I don't look for Kotegaeshi from standing because its harder to find and the payoff will be too low, but I do look for Nikkyo because I know I can sometimes get it and it's the end of the match if I do.
I use kotegaeshi from bottom guard sometimes, and that's worked for me against various white belts. Even then it's just a reversal, rarely (and imo it shouldn't count) does someone tap from Kotegaeshi. It doesn't have to be a submission; they're just tapping because they feel pain and don't know how to make it stop. Though I think if they just didn't tap, they'd figure it out.
It's probably the same reason Taekwondo guys wanted to prove themselves in the Muay Thai circuit by using spinning hook kicks to KO their opponents, eventhough regular roundhouse kicks were easier to pull off.
If they had only used roundhouse kicks, the casuals would give say things like "other martial arts do that kick too" or "it's too boring".
Hook kicks on the other hand are more exclusive to Taekwondo and leave more of an impact by saying "This is TKD".
So I think being difficult to apply is the reason Rokas is so fixated on this technique, since he's trying to prove Aikido's worth.
@@DarkDoughnutsVids Nikkyo is as Aikido-specific as Kotegaeshi is, and, as someone else who's cross trained BJJ and Aikido for a few years, I can say decisively I think it's much easier, and more beneficial, to go for Nikkyo in a grip-fighting context.
Perhaps it's also differences in Rokas's strengths vs mine; he has a different body type, different Aikido training (his style is pretty different from mine) and so on
To be honest, his version of a Kotegaeshi does not exist in Kokikai (my style of Aikido) our Kotegaeshi are basically another kokyu nage... if we have to go to the efforts of finishing the wristlock it means the throw was unsuccessful; if we can't get the throw against a resisting opponent from the off-balancing alone then it's not good Aikido. So, in my mind what Rokas is doing isn't even Aikido (it would be Japanese Jujutsu), but I understand in most people's minds it is.
@@asteriskcolon Hopefully, he manages to improve as he progresses in his training.
(Also, I watched a few videos on Nikyo techniques and I agree that it would be more effective than Kotegashi.)
Not much aikido left after pressure had been applied huh?
:D ;)
Try using a two on one to transition to the position instead of immediately going for the throw.
Great video. Very interesting.
When you're going to commit to kote gaeshi, turn to face your own hands, and then rotate the opponent's hand/wrist with more of a katana cutting motion. This is much more natural and powerful.
Take a look at your stance at 5:41. This creates a very awkward way to rotate the opponent's hand/wrist/arm. You must step in, in this case with your right leg, and rotate to your left such that your own hands are directly in front of you.
A real opponent will not go down to the version of kote gaeshi shown here if they are fully resisting, unless you have already created kuzushi or have some sort of supplement (you can mix in o soto gari or o uchi gari to finish), even if they just stand there and let you initiate the technique. Between two similarly-sized men, you simply lack the strength and range of motion necessary to throw a fully resisting opponent.
This old school version is more powerful, but it requires you to step into the opponent, and then you encounter new issues, specifically the possibility of getting punched in the face or getting your back taken. Still, it's the only way kote gaeshi is going to get enough power on its own to actually work. With the windshield wiper motion of hands, kote gaeshi is only capable of creating kuzushi for other techniques, and it's not a particularly good one insofar as it ties up both your hands while leaving you in striking range. I suppose you could get lucky and get someone with unusually sensitive wrists.
So that's what you should try next. Grab a handful of random BJJ guys from your gym, have them just stand there and let you perform the technique, falling if they need to. See if you can drop them with the version in this video even if their only resistance is to try to stay standing. Compare this to the older yoseikan version I've described of the technique and see if that improves the power.
Set aside the fact that these are unrealistic compliance drills for a moment, just to give you a visual understanding of what I mean. See how the old school aikidoka is stepping into the opponent to face his own hands to finish the throw.
czcams.com/video/hl-mz8e5vsc/video.html
Guys I haven't watched the whole video yet. But. I guess he is just testing if we have learned from the previous lesson ... really FUNNY!
Please bring me on your show. I am an 8th degree bb in Aiki-Jujutsu. There is so much missing here. I would love to help people have a better understanding of how this can all be very effective in the street and in sport.
Hey, interesting that you said you had bad training. My sensei used to teach us that wrist lock is the key.
Whenever we fail to practice a technique he came and check our wrist lock stuff. Usually we fail to execute a technique because the innitial wrist lock isn't properly applied. Yet, who am I to say such thing. I don't really practice aikido anymore. However , I really appreciate you go out and make this "quest" of 'reinventing the wheel'.
Nice work guys!
Aikido came from jujitsu. It's is called Daito Ryu Aiki Jitsu. Brazilian jujitsu is from Kosen Judo. As much as I like to see you guys reinvent the wheel. I believe there is a lot to be learned if you just understand the culture and the art.
i've got to agree with you, just go back and look at jujutsu, doesn't have to be from daito ryu (although most daito begins in a yoi postion), but even goshin (meaning jitsu developed after 1868, and not the judo kata) jujutsu, billy doaks jujutsu was awsome czcams.com/video/9-TWTPa0tIY/video.html watch from 1.10
Have you tried testing a standing grappling sparring where only wrist and arm locks from bjj,cacc,any grappling art and aikido are allowed? I saw potential for many aikido techniques during this exercise. I believe the concept of flow-locks used in cacc wrestling could be the key to enable aikido techniques to be effectively used on a live resistance scenario . If you can’t get one, move to next possible lock until you catch the right one for that exact moment. Also adding some set ups like arm drags, russian tie ,two-on-one, foot sweeps, and more grappling arts techniques to see if that could enhance a higher probability of success on your aikido arsenal (kotegaeshi,. Sankyo nikyo ikkyo yonkyo gonkyo, shihonage...). Great video. Are you going to test more of these wrist throws/locks?
I think u can pull this technique off but with lots of practice if u relate it to jiu jitsu. Those fancy bjj moves take lots of time to train/perfect and lots of times they fail but not all the time. The difference is the practice u put in until u achieve mastery in applying them in a live setting. I think this technique is the same, no different from any other there, but it probably has a low percentage especially if it's the only aikido move u go for. Like in jiu jitsu u have to call from ur memory on all the techniques and moves u learned and use them in pursuit of the 1 thing you're after, which is victory. It is a test of will, power, and expertise since any one of your moves (if not most) will fail when ur opponent inevitably resists. And Rokas knows this because he trains jiu jitsu. U should do some of this where u go for all the moves u know since you're a black belt, add some light strikes to the mix would probably be a good idea too. If u can pull aikido off in an mma setting that is true, true mastery wouldn't u say? U probably want to be a true master bc u love aikido. Would make a pretty neat fighter that is complete in that sense.
the problem I see with the technique is ...what about the opponent punching you with the other arm...???since you're using both hands to grap one. how will you defend against punches from the other arm...
It's supposed to be functional Aikido in a BJJ environment. No punches in BJJ.
Nice laboratory! You guys should do: when he resists kotegaeshi and pulls backwards, then you apply a forwards kokyo. After all even boxers do combos .
Both put on a full suit of Japanese armour, start sparring with bokken and then go for the Kotegaeshi. That’s the only way to truly pressure test it, because that is what its intended use is. Context is everything.
Make sure you lock your thumb (and the whole of your arm) against the back of the hand that helps increase the strength of the kotegaeshi
if aikido become more appliable it might be the next wave in mma
Also, you don’t have the basis of aikido: the Shize, the body position. A correct Shize should be your “canvas” so to speak, on which you will paint your work. If your initial posture is misaligned (mimicking your opponent) including lacking breath, then your canvas has holes. Meet your opponent with correct shize. ANYthing you do will work better with correct shize. Then, if he pulls his arm, resisting the grab, continue his pull advancing your whole body and from there do kotegaeshi. If he pushes, then extend further his arm (again your who,e body with your sword-hands, never seen in your experiments-remember two arms joined like a sword are stronger than a strong man’s one arm) and from there do kotegaeshi. Or just advance doing kokyo or iriminage? It can only work with the correct timing. When I was practicing we used to do tsuki and no matter what technique we do on tsuki, we NEVER grabbed the tsuki, no time! We stepped to uke exterior and blended tsuki with extended swordhands thus extending uke’s vector and practically putting him out of balance before he could even retract his arm. All this was done in perfect timing with GREAT vigor of the gesture and fluidly. It is possible to work like this. And you only follow with the technique if this initial gesture has put uke to the edge of his balance. You force. That’s not Aikido. Aikido is very very difficult, striking is easy. Aikido only works when uke is led out of balance. Judo can force. And your friend should relax his voice, he stinks like selfimportance, infinity pisses on dicks. The greatest work of a martial artist is to cultivate a genuine vibe, an energetic signature of true humble heart, of elegance, no one will want to attack you “on the streets” even, while this fucker would incite disgust in even a peaceful individual.
The reason why the wrist lock is not working is because you're not using a collar tie I use kotegaeshi as a set up to get in the different moves like arm drags or throws I use I think of it like this use wrestling set ups moves then use the aikido set up wrist locks if they don't work because you are trying to bend the wrist and if they balls there fist then go to a single leg or a different wrestling move and go to a different technique
I have been saying for years that the only reason ueshiba was able to move like he did was because of his many years of training in jujitsu and kenjutsu. Under sokaku sensei tutelage, ueshiba became a badass! After joining the Japanese army he stated that he would never intentionally hurt another sentient being again. His stint in the otomo kyo sect reinforced his desire to never cause permanent damage to others again. So he severely watered down the many techniques he had acquired through a lifetime of martial training. This is where modern aikidoka are sorely lacking. It will not ever "work" for them in any real liffe or death situation because their only reference is the uke philosophy where the person you are training with is considered your partner and allows techniques to be done on them. This relationship develops horrible habits that your brain will always go to in a high stress environment.
Fun ideas to play with in here that I hope to take to the mat sometime soon. Thanks
Is this another joke video? Calling it pressure testing and then doing very gentle randori :>
Do you want others to use critical thinking for you?
This time, Rokas was sparring with somebody who actually knows how to do kotegaeshi correctly (unlike Rokas) so I'm calling this legit. It was obviously just a practice video about using one technique for one purpose, not a real fight. The "pressure testing" part was just trying to apply the technique against limited resistance. But I suppose that Rokas is simply taking the training wheels off his Aikido and he knows he needs to practice a bit more before any **real** pressure testing.
@@nextghost Why don't you show him how it's done if you are the expert, take a video with a phone of how you pressure test your aikido.
Cue the excuses why you can't..
@@nextghost it wasn't sparring... more "drile" or "flow"...
sparrings are many levels -> than?? sparing on weeeeeery ligth??...
but it work... suprice elbow lock for wrist lock...
i'm aikido, mt, and bjj (from yt many catch as can wresling)...
Nice, but I still think that using Aikido for self defence the Spear System and Wing Chun (chi sao) will be a better basis to start with for pressure testing Aikido went being attacked and secondly BJJ training methods.
Kotaigaeshi works when the attacker has a weapon in his hand and tries to stab. Attacking hand be twisted or elbowed. Udegarami will be better technique empty handed
Common denominators in all the Martial Arts ,including high level Aikido, Judo etc is to unbalance your opponent before applying any technique, this is a fundamental principle that's comes with years of practice with the right teacher ( and even then sometimes the student doesn't get it ) ... Your pursuit to find the answers is commendable , but your coming from a place that Aikido is flawed rather than your lack of deeper understanding and knowledge of this Art you spent years of learning. This reflection takes courage , failing to look and things honestly will hold you back on your development ....Don't criticize ,just do
been waiting awhile for this. try the standing kotagaeshi pin a little differently. instead of drilling the elbow into the ground and applying the wrist twist, clamp the arm between the knees and pull the wrist up towards nage's belt, then apply the wrist twist. this works better on shorter uke.
question- is this the first time you've seen this? have you seen that pin turned into a hard sankyo?
yeah this doesn't work at all, and the aliveness isn't realistic. if you don't allow the counters to the throw in the "pressure testing" segment how can you realistically test it. if you could single leg or double leg at will in this context both of you would stop screwing around with wrist control and be absolutely launching each other. this is useless in any other context than "my kotegaeshi vs your kotegaeshi"
if someone can cut your head or shoot "single leg or double leg" don't wotk...
18+
look at the pictures, not the text or language of the website ...
forumdlazycia.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/holokaust-chrzescijan-to-sie-dzieje-naprawde-artykul-przeznaczony-tylko-dla-ludzi-doroslych-18-lat/
Stefan Theard You’re describing the Integration sparring phase of the i-Method: Introduce-Isolate-Integrate. Isolation narrowing the parameters so you can focus on one thing at a time - then integrate into the overall game.
@@nchawkin isolate step provides ZERO value in a resistance training scenario, it would make way more sense if the isolate step was simply drilling the move or something in order to isolate the technique. if you're sparring with resistance and you limit your options to only 1 move and no reasonable counter (i don't even see you guys using decent grip breaks which is silly) then what exactly is the point? it would be more productive and make more sense to just drill it.
Funny. The guy says the same thing at 11:00. Maybe watch the video and then comment.
@@stefan-t-- You've obviously never done traditional Aikido lol This video may not be for you. To "just drill it" is the Introduce phase. You can modify the parameters to include whatever you want in the Isolate phase. Don't confuse the content of this particular isolation drill for the structure of the i-Method. It's very flexible. Just shooting single legs and sprawling with 30-40% resistance gives a real feel for how someone will actually move vs. purely static reps. Just doing form then jumping to sparring with everything at once inevitably leads you to play your A-game, not study particular positions with aliveness.
lot a people question aikido effectiveness I always thaught it has potential if you get some instructors that are more realistic in their apoach.
It would be cool to see you trying to hit this while the other person was actively trying to take you down/submit you using any technique. I suspect it would probably distract more than assist. Also, I can't congratulate you enough on what you're doing, going into this trying to find out what works and what doesn't. Taking nothing for granted, very cool.
I think it could work, Liam, at least in a BJJ competition, where grips are pretty important.
Yeah it’s definitely possible, especially if you drilled it a lot.
Aikido was useful for disarming samurai swords and tanto during ancient times. And your only allowed to be chill and calm in neutral position at all times. So its pure defense. The only time your allowed to strike is when your imitating a samurai cut or knife attack so your partner can practice. It's really hard to apply it to real life when people are resisting though. Your going to need about 5-10 years to be good at aikido while learning how to stay chill and neutral. It's best to practice mma while your waiting to rank up in aikido.
aikido has good foot work and movement and angles
Resist the wrist lock throw 100% and you end up with a broken wrist.The Aikido techniques work on an aggressor who has given into his anger, his emotions, his desperation and overcommited his attack and opened his energy up to being manipulated. This is why it works on the drunk at the bar taking a giant slow motion right hook and putting all of his weight into his punch. Aikido techniques do not work in sport, where the attacker is disciplined and mindfull of his base, they will work in sport only if the opponent has a moment of weakness and is overtaken with anger. Aikido when applied to sport, the circles become tighter, the movements shorter and it starts to look like Judo, in turn, sloppy judo starts to look like wrestling.
dude is wearing like a tkd torso lol wtf?!
the only way to really pressure test it is to try it live without the other person knowing what you're going to do. I have a feeling trying that on anyone with decent standup will get you taken down, probably via arm-drag. When circle your hand out like that too you're leaving your elbow out there for a standing kimura.
This technique can be useful if you use it at the right time , just like how there are bjj techniques that you wouldn't use on specific times or vice versa .
Matthew Van Helden pressure testing should have levels. It is necessary for the individual to test themselves starting at the lower levels allowing for the development of their technique. this can and has been pulled off and on wrestlers. It is just unlikely as it is a finesse move. ‘Without the other person knowing what you’re going to do” : you’re suggesting that it would be easier if the other person didn’t know what to resist?
@@eclipsewrecker it's a not a difficult concept; real life scenarios aren't scripted....
Matthew Van Helden so then you can’t test them. It’s not a hard concept.
@@eclipsewrecker the fact that you used "them" when it's not clearly in reference to something shows your cognitive dissonance and inability to have a conversation.
This so bad its pain full to watch, I train in thaiboxing and work on clinching a lot like every other day with some actually trying to hurt me, got video of doing it live sparring with elbows, and knee, we wear elbow pads, so don’t get cuts, no gloves, and why is that guy wearing a body pad, you need to conditioning your body to take damage when clinching, knee be flying or head buts if real fight, respect for doing it but doesn’t look good, pressure and intent actually help sweeps and trips in thaiboxing going slow or soft doesn’t help some techniques,
It's not Aikido vs Thai boxing. It's a comparison of using Aikido joint locks in a BJJ environment.
Gary Bolen welll it look terrible and that’s clinching. Not saying Thai clinching. And don’t why was rolling for the other guy. They would Get smashed by beginner in Thaiboxing. in real fight. Trying that out. Elbow and knee would stop that. Let alone a wrestler get throw around like a rag doll. And the pressure 😔 wasn’t any.
"Mixed Martial Arts for self defense", huh.. So, after your previous videos, my mindset is like that: If I don't see any punching or kicking even though the setup would (or rather should) allow for it, or other attempts to resist, it's not real. And I did not see those there. If you do this for "self defense" you would expect your opponent to punch, kick, flail, whatever. So I call bs. I don't see any pressure testing at all, and it does not seem like a valid entry. I claim that you would get hit in the head with the other hand after you try and grab the first one faster than you can say "ouchy". I don't see any self defense either as you try to grab the hands of an opponent that clearly does not want to punch you in the first place. What are you even defending from?
I think you missed the point , he is trying to set the level higher at a pace , just like how they do in mma and so on ... , the next step should be adding punches and so on ...
I like your continued effort to pull some techniques from Aikido into real fighting (competitive or self-defense) but the video seems incomplete without you showing how this performs outside an isolation drill.
i pulled off an ura sankaku while trying to perform an osoto gari while sparring, it was pretty neat, you might have more success with other techniques besides just wrist locks from standing positions. like clotheslines. i also find that aikido techniques are good when used off of judo or bjj techniques that are in the middle of failing.
Have you come across kadochnikov's work at all? Do you have an opinion?
I wonder if this kind of training is effective because it takes too long to get a result. For beginners it is fine but these guys are not new at all. Are they training to learn how to use aikido techniques in mma. If so they might want to consider defending against strikes at the same time. But I’m not sure. I would like to see where this goes. It could develop into a new thing. Why do we not see wrist stuff in mma? Is it because of the intensity of the striking or is there a rule. I remember something about small joint manipulation, but that could be in pure BJJ competition. I will watch for more of this.
Nice! I imagine that plus palm strikes and slaps would be a tiny bit more "realistic" test for it, the distraction lf getting slapped and pushed would both make it harder and at the dame time create more oportunities to test the other aspect of this techniques
Enjoyed the idea of: I'll pay you $100 if you can throw me - now real resistance may come into play. But what I have yet to hear you consistently ask or mention: Are you taking your opponent's balance? Nathanael Chawkin appears to be getting your balance (or at least some of it) to implement the technique. Rokas, you seem to be just trying to do a wrist lock - and pain compliance is low percentage.
How about asking: Was I getting your balance?
Are you trying to throw people, or are you trying to aim people falling down? (because you took their balance)
I don't agree with pressure testing in aikido. It totally goes against the whole point which is to blend. All it will do is get you into a very bad habit of trying to force a technique. As soon as resistance is met you have to abandon the technique an flow straight into something else. Otherwise it just turns into a fight. You have to be like water and find the path of least resistance.
Hey Rokas what is your opinion on Daito Ryu?
Some of my old pals who are prison guards prefer Daito Ryu over Akido
I'm not falling for another one of your experiments
The true application of training here is 'grip fighting' and developing your grip to rip off the opponent's grip and retain your own grip. Putzing around here shows that Rokas still can't "let go". In addition, sorry to say that for an reputed Aiki blackbelt, he just looks clumsy. Why not give up the fantasy and go with submission grappling entirely.
I enjoy your work but I'm honestly confused. Pressure testing someone who is playing the same game as you isn't really pressure testing in my opinion. Admittance wrestlers(everyone) drill hand fighting(whatever skill they're working on) but I see flaws with this. 1. You're pulling opponents hand towards your leg, prepare to have your legs taken. 2. You have to go two on one to finish, I see multiple takedowns available and if I'm not feeling that you're going to feel exactly how hard I can hit with my free hand. 3. The distance looks odd and unrealistic. With any pressure or attempt to break away I don't see this working. Time spent grappling and boxing will make you a way better fighter then trying to fix aikido. But who am I to say I'm just a biased wrestler
I think it would be more effective against an opponent you were grip fighting with who didn't know what you were setting up.
I don’t understand the problem. I always use ikido when I’m breaking an opponent’s grip.
I see you're still rocking the Batman shirt.
If Aikido split their training time (in thirds) with Aikido, Jujitsu, and Muay Thai then entered MMA competition what percentage worse than everyone else would they be from other competitors
A) 33% worse
B) 67% worse
C) 100% worse
*Hint - Think in terms of absolute wins and losses.
*Answer - 100% - Because Aikido is Bullshito
You’re in CA? Make your way down to Machida Karate in Lomita, CA (Los Angeles).
Then what happens?
Dale Frank he blindly accepts the powerZZzzzz of another master and swears off Aikido. Or he blindly accepts the authority of the Machida’s but actually learns that traditional martial arts work in the real world and MMA. The Machida brothers have proven that their brand of karate is very effective and dominates in both Bellator and UFC
Dominates?
Dale Frank don’t be lazy. Search their names. Here is a perfect example of karate being made functional by Machida (first clip)
czcams.com/video/NnvLdE5j5sw/video.html
@@ThomCoe Are you a representative of this school in Lomita? Are you fighting and dominating in MMA? How many fighters from your Lomita school are dominating in MMA? Other than the brothers, I wasn't able to find any MMA fighters from your school.
Hello
functional aikido really
Only little more then half way thru, and while practicing "rolling to side won't work, Step back would be best" 50-80 testing, 'only rolled to the side to do it'
1. Not enough pressure.
2. No strike allowed, not realistic enough.
Before i watch- is this another one of those “haha i got you” videos?
Here a brutal wristlock being applied in bjj for those who doubt they cant be practical
czcams.com/video/OCLpmElX15s/video.html
Wristlocks are like ashi barai, it's all about timing and opportunity.
PS I just watched your “response to a hater” video lol, and no hate here but the dude is right about your cute posing with the dogs :))) he made your vanity hurt haha. Apart from that, the crooked kanji, common who gives a fuck, I’m sick of this farty Japanese code and self celebrated etiquette that is so pleasing to farts because of its pompousness, like, an asshole can immediately dress in a cloak of importance when they robe in Japanese fart-gear hahaha. Maybe it is this same vanity within you (but you are a kind soul and this is what counts) is what attracted you in Aikido to start with ;P common, admit it! As for the “cringing”, I had the exact same feeling watching your early vids of aikido, and I can truly, truly assure you at not feeling any hate towards you dude! :D I see you as a kind individual, no matter the vanity slipping in here and there (which we all do so what’s the big deal)
You probably need to reef the crap out of the arm on the first pull. He isn't loosing composition at any point. Mabye a snap down with the weird grip?
Bu Aikido değil. Rakibin diğer eli boşta. Böyle koteğaşi olmaz Hatalı teknik uygulamaları! This is not Aikido. The opponent's other hand is empty. Incorrect technical applications such as kotegashi will not work!
Sly showed you that
I'm waiting for the 'real' tag.
You did Aikido???? You fight like a butterfly
The second is a basic aikido technique called gokkyo.. how the hell is this new for people?
Rokas, what about hombo dojo? How do they handle this aikido testing? Do they have any comment on this topic? How they can live up and earn on that lies...
Journey MA Research Center . excellent
but why in the end now...??... or what later ??...
good luck...