408 CI SMALL BLOCK CHEVY, PROJECT SLEEPER: DYNO TEST!!! WILL IT MAKE POWER???
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- čas přidán 30. 03. 2024
- Today on Unity Motorsports Garage you get to see what I've been up too for the Past two weeks.
If you have been following along on Project SLEEPER: We have built a 408 Small Block CHEVY to look like a stock 350 crate GM crate engine from the early 1990's
This engine has to have a somewhat stock type idle and deliver the goods.
We picked up a old Holley Street Dominator intake manifold for $75 and I spent about 10 hours in porting it to @DavidVizard specs that he did over 40 years ago...
To top it off we are running a 800 CFM Q Jet carb.. Will it make Power?
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#chevy #dyno #dragrace #nonamenationals #smallblockchevy
#budgetbuild - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Proves what every 17 year old dude in 1985 thought was right.
Flipping the lid did not add 25hp, it simply removed the snorkel's restriction. Would have had the same effect going with an aftermarket 4" open filter. Great video guys!
DV
“To tame the Beast, you must know the Beast.”
YUP...
Andy
Yes
Wow that Q-Jet really is a performer. Great Dyno video. I knew my butt dyno was working right all those years, flipping the lid on the breather. The Sleeper is alive and working great.
I love "sleeper motors and we don't see enough of these.
They are engines that make sense for the street, and they perform better too.
I fully agree.. this is a well balanced street engine that packs a punch.
Andy
Hell yes it's gonna make power! ...........quite a bit more than before anyway. ( Especially if the heads were ported to David Vizard's spec's! )
Andy, I love your channel. In reference to the intake mods. I like what you did there between 5 & 7 to reduce the charge robbing there. I just wanted to remind you not to forget to do similar mods for 1 & 2 as well. There is a video of DV modifying a tunnel ram where I think he may have forgot about the 1 and 2 charge robbing, so if you would give him a friendly reminder.
I love these Chevy builds. I’ve done a couple 400 builds for my 83 Monte Carlo. Might not be impressive on the drag strip but out on the open highway nothing can touch it. Always enjoy watching people freak out over the car loosing traction at 65mph because I decided to get on it. Always wanted to do a progressive nitrous setup on it. I believe that would help the stock sleeper idea.
Not sure who wouldn't find this impressive at the drag strip, but not all of us have to live on LS's and turbos, some of us still like seeing what we can do with N/A and using our heads. This engine is a low 11, high 10 second engine in anything but the heaviest cars at the track. Look at it, and with a Q-Jet, that's pretty damned impressive to me!
I had a 400 out of a 73 caprice in my camaro. It was only.030 making it a 406 gota say personally I love sbc 400's! They're strong! Personally I had a different parts list but I know the potential of these engines especially the '72 and older 4 bolt main blocks!
Badass sleeper motah!!
Yep, flipin' the lid, we knew it was a massive hp boost 35+ years ago, and still holds true today! That's the kind of hp gain you can absolutely feel by the seat of your pants. 💪
Most definitely and it sounds cool... Lol
Thanks for watching
Andy
Depends a bit on the filter housing design, with a stock filter it can choke it a bit with some lip shapes - the real advantage is when you run a taller filter in the housing, whether flipped or not 👍😎
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The filter steel base is most important if it has the corvette style high radius up to the carb air horn,,,,,also ya need a K / N style filter ......
@@ThomasELeClair Agree!! Work so much better than those k and n elements that dont use a lid at all. Moroso? Makes a lid that mirrors the base shape
This is cool if you already have the 400 block to start with but the true 350 "sleeper" is the 383. The people who know wont be deceived by the valve covers alone. Cool build though and nice job on the intake and using a quadrajet carb for full incognito effect. Most builds go with holley type carbs if not efi.
Don’t know if “flipping the lid” actually did much other then giving the carb more area to draw air from instead of making the air route through the small intake hole in the filter housing. Maybe an open air filter would do the same as flipping the lid. The drawback would be loosing the sleeper look though. Love the content of actually searching for the problems instead of pushing advertisers like most shows do.
Your grinder work is great Andy:)
She looks really good buddy…
Huge improvement from stock…
Thanks! It has a very smooth Dyno curve which is exactly what I was after with the old Street Dominator intake
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Havent seen one of those in awhile. Like messing with older oddball intakes. ANyone can buy a brand new one
Spent many hours porting a 7530 Team G, flowbench time etc.
Just right on my 383....great midrange and strong top end not too much tq down low so it dont spin.
Love to see yours with a 300-36 and a dually 454 stock air cleaner.
Torque curve is perfect for a driver it will make huge tire smoking torque everywhere. Thats what makes a street car fun
Use some 20-22 in case Superturbos it will be quiet and quick. Love sleepy stuff
Wow! What a runner. Very impressive. 🏁
Thanks Tony! I can't wait to hit the track with it now...
Andy
Flipped lid for the win!
Flipped Lid Gang!
Andy
With the Q-J, double check the air flap's spring setting - Been a few decades, but IIRC it should be either 3/4, or 7/8, of a turn from JUST closing the flap - an 1/8th either way could also have been enlightening.
Don't know if you did it, or if the heads you used had them, but a couple of bits of shim stock slipped down between the manifold and the heads, to block them off, can help a little by reducing the cross-heating of the manifold base.
LOVE ME sum old old school 400 SB Chevy!!! hell yeah!!!
What a fantastic video! This is the type of real world content your average working stiff can really relate to. Kudos my friend.
Thanks for the kind words! Im glad you enjoyed it
Andy
I see low 11 second potential there in a properly set up ride! Great job guys.
Thanks for the kind words!
Andy
I appreciate the video ..Many years ago i built or helped really build a 302 for my 68 Camaro ..part dirt track bottom end top end off a g gas car . I ran a solid lifter isky cam along with other parts. I used a HEI distributor, bronze gear . Recurved . I remember the engine pulling hard to 7800 where i had the rev limiter set . ..I learned then cylinder heads are the key to making hp .. thanks for the video
Absolutely the heads are KEY to making power...
Thanks for watching
Andy
That was hilarious! 25 horse 😂 great job and keep us posted. Love this project
While all those other car channels are trying to flip the script with antics, you guys are out there flipping the lid on real horsepower.
I like that! We just like keeping it real..
Thanks for watching
Andy
Notice they dynoed it with 160 + coolant temps too. Realistic and totally possible to duplicate in a street car.
I had a 71 Buick GS 455, build to a stage 1 spec and with the 800cfm quadrajet, would make 460 horse and 550 lbs/ ft. As I started facing it, adding gears and better exhaust, fuel quantity was an issue. The quadrajet fuel bowl is really small, but short of fuel injection it's an awesome street carb. It gets a lot of hate though.
Yep, the Qjet is not a bad carb. I've read it's good to this hp level. Cadillac motor 600 something ft lbs on qjet.
The idiots that complain about Q- Jets didn't change the gas or air filters or spray clean them out ?
The haters just dont understand them
They are a smarter carb for a true daily for sure.
Love my holleys but the best dailys had Qjets with chokes.
@@gordocarbo
Too bad they didn't make a 1,000 cfm Q-jet.
Thanks for your videos and content brother every time I see a new one it keeps me motivated to work on my junk .
Thank you
Lot of difference with the lid flipped, thanks for sharing, all the best to yous and your loved ones
I’m running a Progression Ignition distributor on my 353 small block in my ‘71 Camaro. Love it!
Great video. So much good information and you guys looked like you were having fun doing it. I liked the air cleaner test but thought I would have seen a kN filter. Keep up the good work and thanks. I know you put a lot of effort and time into these videos.
Paper would work just as well.
Looking at the oil filter in the sunlight is always your best bet. Many things show up in the sunlight that don't seem to show up under artificial light, great advice
Absolutely! You can see so much more in the sunlight
Thanks for watching
Andy
Also I meant to say looking at the oil after draining it
Love the 25 ponies from the lid flip. I was doing that on my mom's 71 Demon with a slant six just for the cool sound back in 76-77
. Great stuff brother...🤓
I thought it was pretty cool to see that! Thanks for watching and I'm glad you enjoyed it
Andy
Did that to Dads 73 2bbl Impala late 70s....then slid underneath and drilled some holes in the muffler. He was not happy.
Put the Comp Cams Beehive Spring #26918 intended for LS engine in it. Perfect for your build. AND the DUI was the right choice. I'd change the cam though.
DUI didn't make the most power...
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Try again.
@@autonomous_collective you buy the Dyno time and I will test... But we backed up the runs I will have a full video on it upcoming
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Jones knows his stuff Id leave it in there.
480hp
King David would say it’s kids stuff.
But it’s still a Beast almost 500hp
480hp
This was a kid's kind of build..
The story isn't over yet!
Andy
I really appreciate the awesome videos. I dally drive a 85 c30. And beat the hell out of it . I put a 750 holly headers on 350 . I'm going to dial in my Mickey Thompson cross ram. For daily use. Thanks again for your knowledge. Never any valve float $$.
Not too bad for a first run gotta start some where and go from there. The lid flip didn't surprise me I've done it many times over the years and I always could feel the difference on the street. I know the quadrajets becoming a restriction do to flow size, but the cam needs to go for a better spect one. Run it with a better cam and the quadrajet then just to see what it can do put a higher flowing spect carburetor on it. Personally I'd be willing to give up some of the power just to have that nostalgic Quadrajet sound of the secondarys kicking in, and fool everyone into thinking it's a rather stock replacement engine.
See that is exactly what we after... With this engine having an almost stock idle and when you pop the hood and see what looks to be a mismatched Single plane intake on a stock crate motor and a Q-JET people will think it's easy picking!
Thanks for watching
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage agreed I had a 1980 c10 with a stock appearing 350 but it was a 383 toped with a quadrajet and that thing would get it. Had the slightly loopy idle but nothing that gave it away. Most thought it was all in the exhaust I miss that truck. Looking forward to seeing more on the 408.
@@chevyfan82 you will get to see it in action next month at the track!
Andy
Great video appreciate it Andy.
Thanks I'm glad you enjoyed it
Andy
great video series, I am loving this.
I'm glad you enjoy it thanks for watching
Andy
Very nice Andy.
You guys built a nice engine.
Well done. 👍👍🇺🇸
Great video Andy! Any chance of future dyno action with a modern single plane? You may be able to convince me to rub on it a bit!
IMpressed with the Qjet but I'd love to see it with a Holley 850 DP
I remember that big 4 barrel sound also coming out of the dodge Aspen Cop cars (Thermoquads) as they raced towards us young punks!
Always been curious of Dino results from a q Jet carb. Back in the day when I was broke I had a 780 cfM Q jet 331 cube Small block.That pulled hard to 7000 Only reason I put that carb on there is because it was a 150 bucks at my local auto parts store rebuilt and But I was a broke 19-year-old kid the was no save up for 2 more weeks. That 69 GMC had to out an get in trouble. later saved up and put a holly 750 double pump on it. Cause my buddies are laughed at The bog quad But it actually ran better with that carb than it did the 750 holly out of the box. And it got good mileage. And every classic movie sound has that noise from the 80s All the caprice cop cars. They were great carbs as long as they sat on a good loom intake and had no fuel boil issues like the stock cast intake. I love them and the sound they make In the secondarys open. quick throttle response can't beat it.
Loved that video.
Pretty nice considering it has such a small cam, with all of the accessories and in the car it will be a solid 430 hp
With big tq comes in early. BB power without the weight. Love it
I love all the best American motors period
Loved every minute of this one guys. Great job on that beast...... I mean snoozer;)
Thanks Tom! I'm glad you enjoyed it
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Andy. What did DV make the turtle in the intake out of??
We use Goodson Intake Epoxy
Andy
D*** good video showing showing what happens when you flip the lid, but then also keep in mind when the motors in the engine bag and the hoods close. And you're sucking in all that hot air off the engine. That's also got to make things a little great video. I'd like to have a feedback on the oil pressure situation. If you guys think that's a deal at all I just didn't like to see the oil pressure drop as the RPM went. I'd like to know what oil you have in it. Thank you, Greg and the team.Thank you again
For such a mild cam it seems to work well, its running out of air already. Make a great cruiser or truck engine. It would be a good engine to do a rocker ratio change on to see what happens at the existing airflow.
Yeah, depending on time I have some other things I would like to do with it.. Dyno time goes by SO FAST.. 😆
Andy
@UnityMotorSportsGarage atleast you have engine dynos you can drive to. All we have is 'tooners' down here with drums. Actually thinking about building one.
Nice work guys those are decent numbers for sure..
Thanks for the kind words and for watching!
Andy
I have a 1971 400 4 bolt main that ' GM was the last to machine '. and the 400 turbo trans came out of the Impala with it. and along the way I scored a pair of humpback heads that are ported. pickup only. Fort Wayne In area. No reasonable offer denied.
I may be interested… not sure how to contact you from here though
@@jimmy_olds if I know your here when I am I'll put my # up long enough for you
@@jimmy_olds If I know your here the same time I am I'll post my # long enough for you
@@jimmy_olds My 3rd time posting this message. If you are here at the same time I will post my #
@@jimmy_olds Sucks when the FS guys never respond.
Love the longer video!
Great job on the build guys. The manifold mods appear to be working well, and lastly I've always had good luck with the Q-Jets. You might double check the Q-Jet, it could be only a 750cfm? Look the bulge on the wall of the primaries and it's the 800cfm. One last test I would be curious what a stock Chevy or Edelbrock performer manifold Dyno numbers would look like? But that's definitely a strong sleeper motor but still nice road manners, good idle 👍👏
Yeah its an 800CFM unit. I was surprised to see it pulling vac. in the upper RPM ranges. This is going to be a nice cruiser that can sneak up on some folks..
Thanks for watching,
Andy
That's why I use MSD distributors , the are equipped with the option to lock out the machanical advance so you don't have that issue with your engine.sounds good , I have that same intake and you got me thinking about porting it like you did , thanks
Wow!!! Flipping the air cleaner lid on a Quadrajet really does work!!! Great job on all counts guys!!!
That thing is so cool!
Thanks! It's going to look super sneaky in Joe's Chevelle
Andy
This was great!
I love your videos Andy!
Thanks Brother! I have always appreciated your support
Andy
Awesome 😊
Thanks for watching
Andy
Great power for the size of the cam good job
Great video
Bigger carb would get U more hp, but for a heavy street vehicle, this setup would be massive fun, light to light!👍
Stay Tuned!!!
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage wouldn't miss a minute ! 😉
Great video..like the distributor comparison..and of coarse the bad ass air cleaner..flip the lid...great little gm goodwrench engine..lol
I think it really looks the part with the Q-JET and stock air cleaner... Thanks for watching I'm glad you enjoyed it
Andy
would have been interesting to try a K&N filter element
I agree, I will say that I was shocked that the Paper filter only dropped 5hp with the flipped lid
Andy
My guess of 480 hp 500 ft lb of torque was pretty close! Would like to see what it would do with a victor jr intake and 830 hp Holley carb!
Yup. It's dying for a bigger carb.
Im willing to bet with a cam, carb and intake swap we could get near 100hp more
Andy
As is you’ve built a sneaky street cruiser with all that torque and the 700r4 transmission first gear traction will be the biggest challenge
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage intake and carb alone should get close to the extra 100hp maybe a better ignition system. But it would defeat the purpose of it looking tame under the hood....
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage ,,,,,,,,,,,give those heads to DV.........and use a manifold he approves....
Great Engine . I allway thought building vacuume at WOT was a sign the cam was too small
I Love my 800 cfm Rochester on my 406 SBC just like fuel injection.
I had a pretty similar problem with the factory hydraulic roller springs on my AFR heads with a very similarly sized camshaft. It’d lay over around 55-5600 RPM. I swapped out the cam thinking it was just the cam being too small for the engine and a single pattern to boot, then changed the springs out too. The old cam is going into a 350 with the proper springs now so I guess I’ll find out whether or not it was the springs or the cam that laid over on me.
I love the setup that is sleeper
So back in the eighties car craft magazine told us that we were all killing our horsepower by flipping the air filter lid because it placed the top closer to the air horn. They also did an article showing us how to mount a nitrous bottle in an ice chest full of ice In order to chill it even further to cool the intake charge. That sure didn’t age very well.😂
I know right! Thanks for watching David
Andy
You should make a T-shirt and a coffee cup. With that slogan we make horse power not excuses
Heck yeah!
Andy
Cool video for some old school sleeper stuff 👍🏻. Would like to see what cam DV recommends. Bet he could get it up over 500
I have had two of them, great running engine. 😊
They are really good engines. I just wish the blocks were a little stronger
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage it's the only weakness of them. But I learned from the first one I had that if you are on top of it and don't let it go to the point that it would need bored between refreshing they will last. I would like to go back to getting one in something but I have went to FOMOCO now and I don't want to go back. I have bought a rust free 1988 Mercury Cougar XR 7 from a 90 year old guy and his son. They threw a fuel tank, fuel pump, sending unit, new fuel lines and 8 new injectors in the 5..0 L and I bought it for 700$ before they scrapped it. Luckily I was at the right place at the right time and saved it. Wait until you see it, it looks like it sat in a dealership somewhere since it was new. The interior looks like the day it rolled off the show room floor. I can't wait to get it done and running. Great day to you all Andy. Sincerely John
I was about to comment on how smooth the idle was when you went outside while running it. Definitely sleeper quality.
Do you think the spreadbore benefits from the floor base dam as much as a square bore would? I wonder if the dam would block some of the rear secondary air from reaching the front four cylinders. Did you have individual cylinder fuel monitoring on the dyno?
I think the Eldelbrock spreadbore RPM airGap intake would,ve given better results..
Way cool Andy, show us more!
Hang tight... More to come! Thanks for watching
Andy
I love David so much pass it on from rex Warren
Carquest or Orielly's near me many years ago went out of business..they had new GM Goodwrench 350 long blocks for next to nothing. Didn't have the money or space...was an amazing clearance sale on that location 🤯😳
All the videos with Chevrolet content may have some of your viewers concerned. 😂😂😂. The flipped lid should be your next shirt design
I know right... The Flipped Lid Gang..
There is a Way to remove the restriction on the Quadrajet remove the Choke completely gives you another 20CFM on the Primary!
Ive removed them on a few carbs and felt 0 difference
Even in mild weather here love a well setup choke
@@gordocarbo
I've tuned several Quadrajets that would prove otherwise and not have to have a choke fire instantly even on coldest days no bog Gone...
Awesome video. I wonder how well that turtle would work with other single plane intake designs?
I've seen some where it works well like in this case and others not so much..
Andy
Curious to see what the engine would do with a air gap
I would also!
Andy
Love the build! Single plane is killing your torque though. When I had my 383 on the dyno that is now running EFI in my Express van, I had it running a later 850 cfm Q-Jet on an untouched Performer RPM spreadbore with a Hamburger 1" Q-Jet taper spacer upside down cone shape facing the carb. It has a mild hydraulic custom roller, 271/284 @ 0.006, 218/228 @ 0.050 on a 108 LSA and 106 ICL with 0.578 lift. 11:1 static compression and aluminum heads flowing 244 @ 0.400, 274 @ 0.500 and 291 @ 0.600. Ran with 1-5/8 primary to 2.5" collector Thorley tri-ys for the Express van chassis into 2.5" collector extension. Made 520 tq @ 3,700 and 502 hp @ 5,600. I had the HEIs mechanical advance setup to give 0 advance until 1,200, 10* @ 2,400 and 16* @ 3,600 by playing with an assortment of center plates and weights. The centerplate was 353 stamped and 053 weights, running 2 medium springs from a Moroso curve kit. It liked 33* total @ 3,600 and AFR was in the mid 12s. The 850 cfm Q-Jet saw less than 2 in/hg @ 6,200 rpm.
Good heads make all the difference
I noticed with the lid flipped over the air cleaner is bouncing around during the pull like its not sealed. I wonder how much air was bypassing the filter.
I remember Dr. Air Roger Helgeson. He was in several articles in Car Craft back in the day.
He was a very smart guy!
Andy
Have mike regrind it for more lift. bet the tq wouldve went up 25-35 with a performer rpm, and the hp been the same. with more average power everywhere. Nice job Guys! She's healthy, lots of fun for a street car.
You are probably right but I will say that this old Street Dominator sure surprised Greg and Dennis!
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage No need for more lift.
I have a few of these intakes.
Love old school intakes. Loaned out my then brand new Holley 300-36 never got it back then Holley stopped making them. Fav dual plane of all time
That's why it was the mainstay of GMC for over a half a century.
Absolutely...
Andy
Great power from the cam! Andy when is it 335 series time???
Good old gjet
Thats still some good power for that camshaft!
There is more left in it! 😎
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage I think so too.
Love the Q-Jet! Had many in the past and 3 currently (one special 800 cfm for a 455 T/A that was a $70 investment). Shocked there wasn’t a K&N under the flipped lid or a taller than factory with an extended stud bolt.
Im now a Believer in the Q-Jet.. On the K&N we decided to just run a Paper filter to continue the sleeper look
Thanks for watching
Andy
Plumb. A. 100 hp. Nos. Under. China. Rail. In. Rear. And. Really. Rock. Somebodys. World. Great. Sleeper. Build
Old timer had a 71 Lemans bracket car 3750lbs 400 ram air 3 heads flat tappet solid cam headers a single plane intake and Q-Jet……… the car had a turbo400 3800 converter 3.73 gear and it ran 11.40-11.50 EVERY SINGLE pass and without me asking he said “Its the Q-Jet”. Coolest stock looking sounding car I’ve ever seen. I’m sure the F.A.S.T. Class guys know a thing or 2 about Q-Jets
Always laughed at the Q-jet guys that would tromp it to the floor and make a giant air sucking sound while going slower.
They didnt know how to tune one properly
Pretty good numbers
Not really, the cam that is in it really killed tq. This engine should be making 550lbft or torque
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage meaning good power for such a small cam 220 @50 on 400ish cubes
I've seen the Dyno operator many years at the Engine Masters challenge.
Yes, you are right he was a Competitor in it.. We are looking to bring Dyno Competitions back!
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage I was on the team that won the big block class. We completed about 8 years. A couple of years before that we got 3rd in the street class. Great times.
@stevewelborn8744 that is awesome! Greg and I are working on something... Hopefully we can pull it together
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage ,,,,,,,,,,,Where are you in North Carolina?????
Looks like y’all are close to me because I saw the Charlotte hwy sign. I’ve dreamt up a weird idea. I could care less about high crazy HP. I saw an episode on horsepower tv where they turbocharged a big block ford for torque. I want to turbo my 350 TBI with a small turbo to get as much torque as possible. I also want to do it with the TBI. I know there’s a lot of haters on those things but they just work and keep working. Anyone I know personally that has a TBI 350 is still running the original setup. There’s upgrades you can due to them and on the cheap. My thinking is what’s the point of getting a aftermarket EFI if your goals aren’t 500+. Plus I’d get a kick out of seeing a TBI pushing 400+ torque.
TBI works.. the Old Holley Projection fuel injection was basically Chevy TBI
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage I found the guy that deals with TBI stuff. I want to talk to him about what I need to make it work.
It's not going to be 25hp on a stock engine but it just proves how much of a restriction the stock air cleaner housings are on a modified engine. It would be interesting to try it with a dual snorkel just to see as well
You are right.. it's on this engine.. it would probably be next to nothing on a stock motor maybe even less since you are getting hot under hood air
Andy
Awesome video! Now test a K&N air filter lol
If he did everyone would post K&N hate.
What would be cool is if the intake had been tested on a test mule motor like the series of test Eric Weingartner had done. Flipping the lid works on a motor pulling over 450hp..
This mule motor will be in the car.. You will see it making passes at the track here on the channel!
Thanks for watching
Andy
Nice small block put that in a Vega and be a blast have a great day thanks for the inspiration I can't build cars anymore or race I'm just an old Gearhead Quadra jets are cool if you set them up right have a great day
That engine in a light car would be awesome!
Andy
I once had a stock 350 with no more than chrome valve covers and a flipped lid that made 946 hp (lol). Seriously thank you for the video even though I do think chrome valve covers add at least 49 hp by reflecting gamma rays!
Uh ok. 946
👊🏼⛽️
Why does the oil pressure drop?As you rip it up it drops as much as 6 to 8 Pounds