Assassin's Creed - Why Did Shay Defect to The Templars?
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- čas přidán 13. 05. 2017
- Did Shay Cormac betray the Assassins, or did the Assassins betray Shay? What was the real reason behind Shay's journey from Assassin to Templar. In this video, we shall explore these questions.
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“Shay the Templars are evil!”
“From my point of view the Assassins are evil!”
“Then you are lost!”
Well the meme doesnt work very well there, as the sith actually were evil, at the time the templars were more noble and good than the assassins in that area
Nooo...
It's: "Then you are shot ! "
Arcanus ツ the Templar’s are trying to enslave the world....pretty evil to me
Arcanus ツ they aren’t The Assassins are good guys it’s that Achilles and the others (Except Adewale) are Corrupt Assassins that’s why they work with criminals,Pirates,Smugglers,Bounty hunters,
@@howardthealien2606 so what you are saying... Is that the leadership of the assassins were corrupt... And yet... The assassins were the good guys... When they were corrupt?
I'd like to mention that Shay never revealed the location of the Homestead to the Templars.
out of respect for achilles probably. Since he spares his life at the end
Do not compromise the Brotherhood. In his way he was honouring that tennet I suppose.
Fam he compromised the brotherhood alright. He took over assassins camps, killed dozens of their recruits, hunted and murdered his friends and he stole the precursor items from the assassins for the templars. That’s the definition of compromising something.
@@SAMSARALIVEEEEEE which is why I say in his own way. He fought them because he saw it as his duty but he never went back to the homestead at any point to finish the job. He left them to hobble along until Connor and Aveline would rise in the Frontier Brotherhood
That just shows that Shay didn't want to kill the assassins, he just wanted to do what's right
Achilles quote from AC3, " in your heist to save the world, make sure to not destroy it at the same time" meaning he learned from his mistake.
Awww sad
So this takes place before connor so how does this even fit in and y isn't shay in ac3
@@aaronmesser7482 no one knows why shay wasn't in AC3
@@aaronmesser7482 Shay was in Europe during AC3 I believe.
Shay didn't saw himself as a templar or an assassin. So i think he just quit
Assassins tenet: stay your blade from the flesh of the innocent.
Assassins: I mean...it doesn’t say anything about earthquakes.
The system works lmao
Hmm yes loophole
More like, Colonial Assassins:
I mean, an earthquake isn't a blade.
@@suicidalbunny1608 loopholes are the worst
shay left the brotherhood because he didn't like that they were moving to next gen.
Tachanka of chinchillas No I like next gen.
well if I said "shay left the brotherhood because he didn't like that they were moving to current gen" it would have half the impact now would it? it would just sound ridiculous
They caused a machine to destroy a city
No he left because they chose to leave him in the outdated last gen.
Darth Maul Quasar
Actually the assassins were trying to get pieces of eden
but actually were touching things that held up the world and made shay destroy a city
Then they didn’t listen to him so he tried to stop them
Shay then joined the templars to stop them
In Assassin's Creed 2, Altair mentions in his codex about how hypocritical it is for Assasins to preach free will yet have to follow elders to the letter. Shay, by becoming a templar, is both expressing his own and spreading more free will than when he was an Assassin, making him, ironically more of an Assassin than his peers
Fraser Souris never thought it that way
Yup
Or it exposes the assassins for what they really are: power hungry murderers
@@deaconcarter3459 yo facts. They are hypocrites to the max. Templars are douches but what they stand for is more important. Order is better than "freedom" aka chaos
@@spiderman9972 especially since we cant deny humans have so many flaws
You left out the fact that the Templars found him, nursed him back to health, and actually treated him with the respect he deserved. And they did all this, KNOWING THAT HE WAS AN ASSASSIN.
An Assassin that had just been shot and left for dead by his comrades. They knew he had a falling out with the Brotherhood. Monro admitted it to him in his letters.
@@RawPower867 true, but they still had no reason to help him. They had the manuscript, they didn't really need him alive. Yet they still chose to help him and give him a chance, more than the brotherhood had done.
@@splicer0169 there's plenty of reason. A defecting assassin would have a lot of secret information about the assassin brotherhood and their Isu knowledge. Plus he's already trained and ready to go back into killing for the templars
@@jumnei5159 at that point why not just nurse him back to a talking state and torture the information out of him? I think their intentions were genuine, him being trained and working for them was an added bonus.
@@splicer0169 then you'd have lost a perfectly trained, experience and skilled soldier. And willing to join the enemy team too
I can tell that both Altair and Ezio would have chosen to defect the brotherhood if they had found themselves in the same predicament.
Code Renard especially Ezio
Yessir
Ezio would give achilles the finger
Altair got betraid.. kinda first, a lot later on, but always staied true to the brotherhood.
@@grimoknobel Would have been different if he got shot and lied to.
I think that Shay was on no one's side. The ONLY reason he joined the Templars was to stop the Assassin's and he never truly believed their goals
You don't just join people who want to enslave humanity...
That's why they called it Rogue. 😂
UA Sucka really? WOW!! Oh ok thanks for the info dude. 😀😮
If that were true, he wouldn't have stayed with the Templars for over 20 years after he killed his former comrades in order to find the Precursor box.
Mmm actually, I'm inclined to disagree. He is an Anti-hero, true. But he is a Templar True and True.
This is why I love Shay. He does what is right, even if it means turning against his own brotherhood. And I do admit the Assassins at this period of time had some bad people leading the brotherhood
he then unintentionally caused the french revolution
Like trying to destroy the templars at any cost. Even destroying entire cities. By removing the devices
shay hale no homo tho
The Brotherhood in the colonial branch were lead by a grieving old man who is angry at what he has lost. His wife and child.
@shay hale 🤣
It breaks my heart to hear the pain in Shay's voice on the cliff when he says "One more hardly matters". He truly was the one who got betrayed.
8:39: I don’t think Achiles was in denial. I think he genuinely didn’t know about the effects of the artifact, until he saw one himself. He even admit in the final mission that “Shay was right all along”
He says that Anchiles is ignorant to the turn of events later in the video. What Anchiles is denying, however, is the possibility that the precursor site and the subsequent earthquakes are directly related, hence his suggestion that Shay made an error.
He only realized later on and even then Liams says "What does he know?" and when Shay calls out on Achillis's bs the only thing Achillis says is "Disrespectful to the end"
@Alexander Brunnrgaard Achilles just sucked as a mentor and an Assassin then, lmao
@Alexander Anttila Actually, the way that conversation went is that no one knew if Mackandal’s man had even found the site to begin with, and so Adewale and Achilles surmised that the earthquake was a complete coincidence by that point. Had Mackandal’s man survived, he could’ve testified what these sites were long before Shay was ever sent to Lisbon.
It only took the destruction of his entire branch of the Assassin Brotherhood to show him.
The Assassins used to be more wise. I think that it all went wrong after Edward's death. Up until then then Assassins were more wise and were better at decision making. That's how I see it anyways.
DJ Double Donut yes and Achilles wasn't ready to be mentor yet, he wasn't wise enough
DJ Double Donut
They're all a bunch of dicks now, what do you think Altiar would've done in Achilles position. (rhetorical question)
It's the reason why Assassins almost gone during Desmond's era.
feyzal92 no, the reason was because the assasin was poor organization. templar have connection with lot goverment around the world, and they have abstergo.
madridista sejati Thank you Captain Obvious. I don't see how mine contradict the point of the OP was trying to make.
When Shay says "this is my story", it wouldve been cool if the whole events of the game shay was telling the story to someone. That someone being Arno Victor Dorian. Then at the end of the game Arno has a choice to kill Old Shay or not
Nitch42 ^-^ or Connor
Nitch42 ^-^ Hmm, choose whether to kill the person who killed someone important to you or not. Sounds familiar.
Nitch42 ^-^ aye that would be sick
Well he was...kinda. Abstergo made a story out of it.
Why would he kill Conor, Punished Fernando?
“Mocking an angry Frenchman is a bad idea.” so true lmao
yes they will slap you to death like a true man
@@vladstravelguide8580 or maybe just surrender
Nah, the second you step up, he will back down and apologize. Just like a good little Frenchman should.
@@jmcarsonjm thats canada
zlegendprow If you don’t understand his joke, I’ll bet you’re no older than middle school
12:10 Also notice that Shay decides to escape instead of figthing. He could've killed Achilles right there and then, but he didn't want to. He didn't want to kill any assassins during this escape scene thus we have the objective of not killing anyone. Just shows you how much he doesn't want to fight. Also there is a scene where he talks about how templars and assassins should just sit down talk things out and basically work together for a better future but the assassins dismiss it right away and call Shay all sorts of crazy for even suggesting this idea.
Yeah, the full synch objectives even said that Shay didn’t kill anyone while fleeing
You damn right they should sit down and talk about it try to find peace together for once we need unity and peace and freewill we are humans not petty gods we need to start sticking together instead of a wedge driving us apart
kill Achilles? why? because he disagrees with him? that is soo right for a reason to kill someone.
What's interesting is that Connor makes the same suggestion later on, and Achilles is less willing to dismiss it
@@apidas Reminds me of Arno sassing Bellec in Unity. "Yes, killing everyone who disagrees with you is a brilliant way to start your rise from the ashes"
"It means obeying your mentor without question. How else will we ensure freedom for the human race?"
Hypocrisy much?
Yes
haha, Altair mentioned this hypocrisy once in one of his letters.
"the right? We have the responsibility!" Doesn't that statement basically sum up the Templars from ac1 and 2? I like how AC rouge flipped the rolls of assassins and Templars now that the assassins are actually starting to use the power of Eden for their own gain
Either the assassins and templars are closer than they each think, both claim to seek peace and better the lives of the little guy yet both are willing to overlook the deaths of a few for the hypothetical betterment of the future.
Or
AC:Rogue has lazy story telling as seen in the assassins disregaurd of the lives of the innocent and aim to gas people indiscriminately.
It'd be more intersting if shey deffected because be changed his mind that humanity needs laws and structure and that throwing scociety into a tailspin by killing those in charge is not a productive way to solve the worlds problems and actually sets people back by forceing them to live in panic.
@@checkmate058 who asked
@@user-uz8ou8mx8w who cares
Q
Rolls lol
I like that it shows how far the brotherhood has fallen since ezios time, also it brings more meaning to Connor bringing it back
Not really brotherhood is still fine and well in edwards time as a pirate
I am pretty sure it was only this group of Assassins that have fallen. The colonial brotherhood was corrupt.
Not the brotherhood itself, just that branch.
Remember what balec said in ac unity about the grandmaster of the assassins in paris and the other places he mentions
Connor didn’t bring it back. His whole mission was one of misplaced revenge, not on order or peace. He was angry kid throwing a tantrum from the start of the game to the end. Not to mention he was rather rude to Achilles in a lot of the cutscene. Actually he was rude to a lot of people, and sure as shit did not know how to keep a low profile
He deflected because Assassins broke one of their Tenats which is never to shed innocent blood.
They quite literally broke that rule a thousand times over.
They broke all the rules actuallys
By accident, he could have tried to explain
@@azzzanadra Shay did explain, they were just to prideful at that moment in time to realise.
@@vegetaprinceofdrip663 no he didnt, he didnt say: the artifact caused the earthquake.
Also for someone who defected cause he killed innocents he seems to be fin killing innocents as a templar
Why does this remind me of Anakin turning to the dark side and betraying the Jedi order.
I see through the lies of the Assassins!
Andrew Shay my allegiance is to the assasins, to democracy!
TidalWave Gaming I HAAAATTTTEEEEEE YOU!!!!! *lava engulfs shay*
Ghost.Gamer you were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Templars not join them!
TidalWave Gaming lol nice one XD
I'm an Assassin's Creed fan and I've always sided with the Assassin Brotherhood because I thought the Assassin's purpose was accurate; Nothing is true, Everything is permitted.
But the reason why I loved this game so much was the fact that there are some bad apples in the brotherhood like Achilles, and that Shay is neither Assassin nor Templar (technically) but a Lone Wolf with his own creed which I think is badass. Above all else, there's good and bad on both sides and everything shouldn't be seen as black and white.
RezDog My thoughts are the same
Errol Tan Thanks:)
Rajun Dhami I can see that, it's like the Templars are Republicans and the Assassins are Democrats. Now I don't hate any political parties because I consider myself a modernist so I think that both parties have some good points.
Rajun Dhami Yea, I saw a video by Fizhy I believe, and he was talking about both sides and which should be right. He talked about how Assassins believe peace should be through freedom but freedom could lead to chaos, and that the Templars believe that peace should be through control but rules can be broken. So there really is no right or wrong side.
RezDog also the morrigan, 3 different maps and pengiuns
This whole game is essentially; “Watch for the poisons of hubris and self righteousness in the pursuit of the ideal. Lest you pointlessly endanger the lives of innocents or tamper in matters you do not understand. In so doing, you harm yourself irreparably.”
Dats deep
Who said that?
That sounds like a quote from a Bible verse
Well said 👏
@@Imakeplaylists-in1pw I was utilizing quotations as a means of focusing on my main point.
"Nothing is True. Everything is permitted."
Shay seems thinking about the creed more seriously than the others by neither following blindly nor obeying the higher ranks (including the mentor) without any questions.
Such a good game! It's a shame it wasn't opposite. Unity being a side last-gen game & Rogue being the next-gen game with twice the story content.
Minus the god-awful Unity stealth & combat!
it isnt awful every almost every assassins creed game is easy as hell since the combat is far far too easy stealth fucking horrible but then again i sorta of like it i dont know why though
It's amazing that a terrible launch can magnify all the negatives of a game and land it in the spot of infamy. I guarantee you that Unity would've been considered an ok/ decent AC title in many people's eyes if it launched properly. It did have so much potential
Cristian Lopez For real, it had 4 person online co-op for fucks sake. It was as if this game couldn't fail in any capacity from the start and then it launched..... Lol
Granted it was a hell of a lot of fun while we got to actually play it since it was so heavily fucked up in the beginning. But in the end you can only play like 5 maps, repetitive and still littered with bugs. I agree with you but you must understand the outrage when you buy a game and it's basically 90% of the time broken. But without the bugs and glitches it was decent, not the best story but definitely not the worst either.
hulkcrusher69 Oh I understand why people were and still are pissed about Unity. It along with Watchdogs is one of the reasons why nobody trusts Ubisoft till this day. I know they've done just as dumb shit before that too, but I've never seen as much cynicism towards them till all that happened in 2014.
Great story, but I still find it kind of odd that Shay left mainly because of the blatant disregard for innocents, but once you become a Templar, you can just run around killing civilians without being desycronized...
Mic Craiger Well, the change in Rogur was that if you kill civilians as either an assassin or templar, you don't desynch but head hunters get sent after you
I think Shay becomes kind of an utilitarian: he thinks it's ok to kill a few people should that be necessary for securing their goal, thus saving more lives, which would be the greater good, and so do the Templars. "One more hardly matters"
Innoceny 1234 smoke bombs, darts, grenades
glitch in the animus allows civillian killing
Mic Craiger if you murder innocents because of a artifact and your leader wants to find more causing genocide and you have to deal with guilt for the rest of your life because you saw the innocent screaming for help knowing that you couldn’t do anything and watch them die as you barley escape. And having your leaders actually not admitting they fucked up and try to kill you because you realize you couldn’t reason with them and your trying to do the right thing. And they even admit that he was right in the end so no shay makes perfect sense for leaving plus the way all of them except Liam treat him but then again he shot him in back
The virgin Shay assassin vs the chad Shay Templar
Bro we know shay was banging hope come one that's all the good the assassin's did for him
@Ryan Walker Luck isn't the only shay makes
@@icecoldwolfz lmao 😂
Giga chad:shay on no sides
it's funny how Achilles says: "Whoever controls the artefacts can access Precursor sites of power. We must recover them or none are safe" then later backs: "A person cannot start an earthquake." then shortly after want to blame Shay for said earthquake...
rogue was awesome but it would have been cool if instead of joining the Templars he became a lone gun and fought against both sides to protect the precursor sights
Two Ink that would've been badass.
Two Ink sounds amazing
Be the lone wolf and Connor will handle that Irish rogue
Two Ink he had to join the Templars so he could have the resources to fight the assassins
Unless he can create another group similar to brotherhood with the same resource and manpower. It will be impossible. Unless we westernise it a bit, where he suddenly go home and pull out a container under his bed filled a Ak-17 and assault musket. And also a dog that can filled your heart with love and the blood of your enemy. And hunt down every single one of them, spouting some one corny line to each assassins killed.
Yeah, it will be badass.
Shay: *Betrays and dismantles the Colonial Assassin Brotherhood and kills every member except one*
Fizhy: "Hmm... could just be some friendly Assassin banter"
That doesn’t give shay the right to kill Argos dad what did Argos dad do to him
Also Arno dad doesn’t even know shay and they crossed paths so how the hell does shay know know about him
@@therealbrendanc9905 who is Argos
Fizhy is either joking or as dumb as a rock.
@@therealbrendanc9905 probably because he had something to do with the colonial assassin
Playing ac rogue changed my faith in brotherhood
I also felt like I saw this in ac3, Connor felt immature and childish a lot of the time. Especially against the guy that wanted to buy the native land in order to protect it. Knowing what happens to the natives after the revolution really makes you think they were right.
I always stand with them they’re are different eras of the brotherhood some good some bad but this era they were greedy
True. You had to resort to extreme measures to save the assassins from their own stupidity and arrogance.
Well, honestly, i felt like the brotherhood was only bad in this game. They basically wrote the assassins like they would write the templars for other ac games. It felt a little cheap for me. But i know it’s a fact that the colonial brotherhood was actually the worst assassins compared to their more organized europeen counterpart.
simon delisle good point. But I think it works wonders for this game as it highlights at not all Templar’s are evil and not assassins are good.
Essentially, Achiles was an incompetent leader
In AC3 it does show he learned from his mistakes
He was basically Connor, which is why he was so critical of Connor in AC 3. He was trying to get connor to avoid from making his own mistakes.
No, just a poor defense of shay.
@@Amadeus-ni3et look who is right here, an fanboy of the brotherhood that does shit constantly in the Americas
i'm pretty sure if they could
Altiar,Ezio,Bayek and Amunet would all come back from the grave just to give Achilles a scheme booting and a lesson in how to mentor
The Assassins from AC Rogue reminds me of the Jedi Council in Revenge of the Sith.
And Shay reminded me of Anakin Skywalker.
Basically, it was their pride that brought them their downfall, and Shay was the truest of the Assassins.
I believe that Shay was right to leave the Brotherhood, although I wish that the game would allow us to spare the redeemable and they would possibly see that Shay was right all along.
This is my point of view.
Actually the entire story is similar to Star Wars, what u said was true and Connor is like Luke and Achilles is like obi wan and Shay is like anakin but haytham is more like darth Vader and Charles lee is kind of like Palpatine but not really
Oweeen it makes a lot of sense like that actually
Except Shay is not a retard.
"In my point of view the assassins are evil"
Sevendor yeh lol after Shay got shot off of a cliff
this generation of Assassins are just full of assholes on high pedestals, no wonder it fell apart. They forgot the humility and basically all of them became Altair at the start of AC1, with Shay and Adewale being the rare exceptions.
I'm honestly surprised the assassin's even managed to survive in the Americas with such reckless management. They didn't even bother to entertain the idea of what Shay was spazzing about. I understand his reason why he was fuming, he got a lot of innocents killed because of the Creed, because he believed and trusted them, but they clearly failed, so instead of kicking him out of the house like a dog right away, they should've tried to calm him down and hear what he has to say. When someone is overreacting like that out of the blue, they're not just doing it for fun, Shay clearly had a reason, so why not swallow your pride and listen to the newbie assassin, you could've saved yourself so many problems if you Just listened.
It took the Creed's near extinction for them to listen to Shay, that's how goddamn stubborn this Creed was.
I think Edward's generation had more order despite being full of Pirates.
The one time I felt bad for taking out these Assassins was with Adewale and that's because of black flag, specially when he talks about Edward and the respect he still has for him. That shit hurt.
Laughing Octopus, I totally agree with you. What you just pointed out I concluded after I played the game myself long ago. If you have any more opinions I would like to hear what they are.
And Laughing Octopus I too wish that Achilles listened to Shay. So many things would have indeed been different.
Laughing Octopus I completely agree but it would be better if you replace Creed with brotherhood in "How stubborn this creed was"
achilles got less then he deserved he's lucky haytham didn't kill him.
Adewale talked about respect for Edward? Shit, I forgot about that.
Shay is a very interesting character. Ubisoft did a good job with him.
I agree so much!!!!
I actually kinda like Shay's motto. It shows he's confident in himself to "Make his own luck."
True fact bro ezio would treat him better n Edward maybe altiar
Too bad he's dead for 300 years or so
precursor sites are not edward's licking manner to find
Its altair
i guess shay just followed the creed. "stay by blade from the flesh of the innocent".
DECASLAYER 616, Stay my blade*
DECASLAYER 616 it's stay thy blade from the flesh of the innocent
Well, technivally earthquake aren't blade
Febry Maulana shay still messed with perhaps the most powerful and destructively unstable precursors of the franchise
+Febry Maulana Seriously, getting overly literal about the choice of words "blade" instead of seeing that the phrase/rule is talking about ANY killing of innocents IN GENERAL? You guys trying to be wannabe lawyers misconstruing phrasing, lol... It's just figurative language. Your "blade" can be any way or method of killing innocent people, whether directly or indirectly.
Hope spends the entire game degrading Shay and the waits till the last moments of her life to hint that she would have let Shay hit it.
That woman clearly was not stable.
There were some subtle hints that she was interested in him. I think Shay knew something was possible.
Yeah clearly. She decided to play the floor is Lava with Shay instead of just killing him. She’s cracked in the head.
No kidding…she creeps me out every play through 😳
@@questworldiangreenknight7455I know fictional women are hot and all but Hope is one of the few that made me feel uncomfortable to be around
@@ghostcreeper243 no kidding. Not to mention with how comfortable she was poisoning the populace it makes me wonder just how messed up this current order of assassins are!
Rogue is definitely top 3 in my tier list. The game has good ship play, a damn good story, and a likeable main character
Same, it’s actually my favorite so far from the ones I’ve played.
Shay was a better assassin than the others at this time
TheTop10guy IMO i think he takes the rules of the brotherhood more seriously than the others.
AmazingGaming true
TheTop10guy That's why most of them were killed.
TheTop10guy well yeah he killed em all
TD Shay is to OP for the Brotherhood. That is why Shay is a Templar.
Keep in mind Shay's goal was to cripple the Colonial Brotherhood not to eliminate them (until Connor arrive and basically rebirth the Brotherhood again) so they can reflect and learn that Assasins are the protectors and hope of the innocent because at the time during rouge they become so "power hungry" and basically stray from one of the key points of their Creed
Well after watching this, I kinda hate the Assassins in Shay's story
@༺Nate Téh Higgers༻ keep throwing that word around, hell do it irl
That won't backfire
@༺Nate Téh Higgers༻ The use of that words doesn't really help anyone come off as a respected and educated individual...rather the opposite.
Sheogorath The Prince of madness look everyone hes hurt by a mere word
Except Adewale for me
There's a phenomenon called the "Hero's Cross", where the hero and the villain share 1 unique thing in common: each thinks they are the other. The villain thinks he is the hero, the hero worries he is the villain.
This isn't just a comic book cliche, it's a real life phenomenon. The term Superman didn't come from America, it came from Germany. The Nazis clearly thought what they did was right and good.
People rarely commit acts of evil for the sake of evil.
@Chandler Burse more than most countries. George Washington was scared of corruption in the government, so much, he didn't trust himself. Hence why he refused kingship and went with a presidency. The constitution was also created to feature in the nesscary distrust of politicians. Hence why the first amendment is the 1st amendment and why the second amendment is the 2nd ammendment.
During the Pacific theater in America dropped leaflets warning of pending destruction of their country. They didn't want to target civilians, but the Japanese were so fanatical as to completely erase their own civilian status.
Don't forget the numerous anti war protests all through the country's history.
I think Rogue was pretty good, however the transition of Shay turning from the betrayed assassin to a full on Templar felt a bit forced. I agree fully that the assassins during Shays time were morons, anyone with common sense has to agree. However the fight between Assassins and Templars is based on the different ideology's the two sides have, and the only reason for Shay to join the Templars was not because "The Templars are good" but because "The Assassin's are bad". Any of the main assassin's in the AC games such as Altair, Ezio, Connor and Edward would have defected the Assassins the same way Shay did provided they went through what Shay did. The motives behind Shay leaving the Assassins were legitimate and reasonable, but the motives behind joining the Templars? If we look into that, the reasons may be 1) They rescued Shay 2) They gave Shay the means to stop the Assassins from their foolishness. And what else? Shay I am sure does not agree with many of the past Templars actions such as slavery which was committed by the Grandmaster from blackflag, nor does Shay believe the Templar's philosophy of controlling as opposed to the Assassin's philosophy of freedom. It would have been a much much better storyline if Shay was shown to have the inner debates questioning whether freedom was really the way to go as opposed to controlling. That way we can see Shay really turn into a Templar by even having the same morals and end-goal of the Templar order. Because with the way the story went, if Shay was in an actual Assassin order with mentors who have common sense, he would not have defected them. It would also have been more appropriate if Shay didn't defect the Assassin's because the Assassin's were narrow-minded morons who had an idiotic mentor, but if he left the Assassin's because he genuinely disagreed with their way of living and their way of living through freedom, and in the end came to the conclusion that controlling was the better option. That way Shay would actually be an Assassin-turned Templar through means of betrayal instead of Shay being a betrayed Assassin who joined the Templars just to get back at the Assassins.
Shariq Usoof
I dont think Connor would've. He's kinda dense.
The Grandmaster in Black Flag actually disagrees with the idea of Slavery. When Ed gets to Jamaica to kill the old guy holding the Sage the Grandmaster makes a comment during the tail mission that if men's bodies are enslaved their minds will drift towards freedom. Thus giving more of an illusion of choice. Let people do what they want in their own lives and living as free men, they will eventually just fall in line anyways going with popular opinion.
Shariq Usoof I personaly always imagined the story we see is twisted by abstergo so that the templars are the good guys in ther video games
Shariq Usoof dude I can't believe you used up so much of your time to write that comment 😂😂
Eugenio Comelli that's not possible
I just realised the assassins and templars are football hooligans trying to win and always putting down the other team even if they are right
True lol
"I make me own luck" This man is an Irish badass incarnate
Yeah. If you dig into Shay's roots you will see he is in fact irish.
@@matthewmclean4388 yep
Oh i thought he was Welsh
I thought he was a Scotsman from Glasgow
He has a bit of a wierd Irish accent and I'm Irish
Not good to mock a frenchman?
*Laughs in British*
Laughs in German BLITZKRIEG
@@buildawall5803 laughs in trafalgar
You do remember that the British got their asses kicked by the French during the Revolutionary war right? Not to mention they barely won the seven years war.
Laughs in carving up their shite empire and saving them in WW2
@@glowhoo9226 wrong. But okay
If Rogue was another sequence or 2 longer it would be in my list of tip top best AC games. It ends too soon
TotallyToonsTV yes it does
Agreed. They could've made it at least 8 sequences like Freedom Cry and Liberation. Both were short in relation to AC3 and AC4, but the games felt long, the stories were intriguing, and Aveline and Adewale along with Connor were probably the only Colonial Assassins with their heads on straight.
Lukas Tran Well, it came out the exact same day as A.C. Unity, but I remember not even knowing Rogue existed until I went with my brother to buy Unity. Sure, there were videos and trailer on Ubisoft' s channel, but I didn't know about them until after I bought it...not much marketing effort. Seems to me Ubisoft put most of their attention on towards Unity and treated Rogue as the ugly stepchild.
I think they missed a great opportunity to use Rogue as a transition from PS3. The story itself is the best part of Rogue, because it ties up a lot of loose ends in the AC storyline in the Americas, and presents Shay as a transitional link between AC3, AC4 and Unity. They could have done the same thing 2k14 did, put out Rogue at an earlier date, lengthen the story to 8 sequences (like they did with Freedom Cry and Liberation). This would hold a lot of people over until Unity came out. But I guess they wanted to focus on Unity.
I disagree with "a simple hello would suffice" He was an hour late for training, He needs to be reminded, just saying HI like nothing happened sends the wrong signal , like its ok to be slack, (only got to this part of the vid,so I am sure more comments to follow ) :-)
They said one hour while in rela life we justblate for like 10 minutes
Well, he was chopping firewood for Achilles before heading over to the training grounds. I'd say that was a required task before training.
@@omarstephenson7000 maybe he could have woken up earlier to do that?
@@muratkahraman8313 I'm pretty sure that there were other house chores for Shay to do before chopping firewood.
That doesn’t excuse the constant jabbing and passive aggressiveness of Hers
I think it was pretty clever writing on Ubisofts part to make the player feel worthless amongst distinguished assassins. It makes you feel just a tiny bit justified and better about killing them later on. it makes you feel conflicted.
Its actually quite amazing how Achilles changed from rogue to AC 3. Humbled and a fair teacher of Connor. Even though he refused to teach him initially because of the mistakes he made as the brotherhood's leader. Yet somehow redeems himself in AC 3.
Proof that neither faction is exempt from corruption. There is no 'bad guy', just sides. Although, I think the Templars are ultimately right. Unbridled freedom leads to chaos, because people are not good by nature.
I didn't say that Templars are incorruptible - I said they had the right idea. Big difference. You think it's disgusting to control society, even if that control brings about a utopia. I think it's disgusting to let people continue to make the wrong choices and perpetuate suffering when there's a better solution. Freedom is only good when it has boundaries, and in this case it's worse to let people destroy each other than to institute some control.
*"You assume people are incapable of making the right choice and you want to make that choice for them."*
And you assume letting people continuously make the wrong choice will lead to a better outcome. There's a word for that... Freedom above all else sounds noble until that freedom leads to things like despotism, wars, and genocide - the very things you disdain. Templars are not above corruption, but at least they have a code and recognize the world cannot naively fix itself. Compared to the alternative, yes, some form of control is necessary, maybe not to the extent the Templars believe is necessary, but I agree with their philosophy.
*"You assume that you can just fix the worlds problems by giving a select few the monopoly of power."*
Aren't you also assuming world problems can be fixed by giving people freedom without a leash? If you think a select few with power is bad, what does a whole people with it look like? A people left unchecked and to themselves is just a recipe for anarchy.
*"You should read a history book because you sound exactly like what fascists and communist espouse."*
I've read a little about the Dark Ages.
*"Freedom doesn't equal anarchy."*
Not if it's curtailed.
*"In the US, we have freedom but also laws."*
And there's still crime, murder, corruption of all sorts, sexual degradation, diseases, abortions, financial enslavement, etc. The Templars wish to rid the world of these woes, even if by absolute rule, peace is rather to be desired by it then waiting, naively believing men will change their nature. How many bodies do we let stack up in the meantime while we're waiting for this supposed global, lasting enlightenment?
*"Many people make good decisions and you would punish them by taking away their liberty."*
First, it's not punishment to protect people from themselves. Second, people you say who make good decisions only make them because they have to. Any opportunity that is given where they know they can get away with it Scot-free, as it were... 9/10 will choose to break the law. Society (people) is/are only good when there are consequences. Without rule and order humanity shows its true nature. The great lie is that humanity is good at its core and its chief desire is to want to spread goodness to others. Wrong. Humanity is selfish, wicked, rebellious, and murderous. This state of decay cannot be cured by patience, time, and least of all freedom.
*"Every time in history where a government has attempted what you
Advocate for it had turned into a oppressive dictatorship!"*
I'd say that's probably right over the procession of time, but there have been times of dictatorial rule where civil progress was achieved and advancements were made. You had 'Pax Romana' under Augustus Caesar, you had Salazar of Portugal, and Josef Pilsudsky of Poland. There's also Lee Kuan Yew, Prime Minister of Singapore. The idea that dictatorships are bad because they're dictatorships & therefore they're bad is ridiculous. Under the right leadership dictatorships can be quite beneficial, and history does show this.
The Templar Order seeks to establish peace & prosperity as well. While their methods are, granted, extreme at times, I feel the ends really do justify the means. If some must die in order for billions to be saved in the long-run, how great is that sacrifice then? If the only way to save and elevate humanity is to control it... so be it.
*"Without our freedom we Are nothing."*
So it's alright for millions to be slaughtered in droves as long as we have freedom?
*"If you think that giving complete control of everything and everyone to a small elite or single person is moral And good then you are completely insane."*
*IF*, and only if that single person or that oligarchy is beneficent. This is why I partly take issue with the Templars. I agree with their goal, and I share a bit of their philosophy, but they are under the same capacity for corruption as anyone else.
*"You'll never stop murder or any other crime."*
It's possible with the artifacts.
*"For you to say that dictatorships can be good shows how warped your way of thinking is."*
History has shown they can be... Like I said, you need the right individuals in charge.
*"All the Templars want is power over people."*
A good deal probably do, but there are those who believe in making the world better as well. Like I said, they are corrupted.
*"Your way of thinking had lead to only death and oppression."*
And here I've been telling you that all along...
*"Personal freedom and liberty is the most important thing in the world."*
Why? And don't say because freedom. Freedom is only beneficial when it isn't taken to the extreme, and when you have people doing anything they please, all it does is invite problems. And when you look into history, what do you see? Wars, death, famine, rape, theft, etc. The posterity of freedom is suffering.
*"Absolutist rule is a crime against humanity."*
Absolutist rule in and of itself isn't a crime; it's what you do with that rule that determines whether the outcome is positive or negative, and whether it should be judged or not, if it can be.
**grabs popcorn*
most satisfying kill for me was chavalier and hope
hope was a bitch
I had so many methods into killing Chevalier though that I lost counts, might as well use those count as a means of combo strikes for longer sword torture. ;)
Lol I also did many ways to kill Chevalier the lamest one was using the puckle gun and my favourite way is either rope dart or shooting the shit out of him
The Union Jack, I Shot the shit out of him. I first thought, that he would be the one shay would kill first out of the Brotherhood. But to my disappointment it was the Black dude(No racism, just forgot his name).
I think my most satisfying kill was Shay's old best friend, because even in the end he had respect for him, have him and honorable death, and they even met on good terms before the guy died. It was a good death.
I wanna play this so bad now. My favorite stories are from the “villains” perspective.
have you read artemis fowl (keyword being read)
Like the movie Joker
NFL YoungBoy i actually didn’t love that movie too much, it was definitely a good movie but i thought it beat you over the head a little too much with how sad arthurs life is by literally beating him over the head in multiple scenes😂 but the scene with de niro makes the whole movie. And yeah that would fit into the villain stoty criteria definitely.
sawy sauce yea I understand what your saying but the movie Joker was actually real life scenarios where there are people who dislike there mothers and the government does actually cut funding for those programs and much more.
NFL YoungBoy yes i know. God i know what the movie was about it doesn’t mean it entertained me. Im sorry but im just exhausted by people who are like “no no no no you just didn’t get it child” i got it, it was fine 7/10
God Damn I wish you could wear his Templar outfit with the hood up. In the thumbnail it’s so awesome.
been thinking this since the game came out lol
The 11th century Templar armor also has a hood that doesn't function. Oh the humanity.
I love Shay, I feel more identified with him. And the game is just amazing.
Me too
I'm like shay cormac as well, and I knew my family is corrupt like the colonial assassins, and I tried to get them to try to talk things out with people and to change their ways of living, but my mom is too stubborn with guilt-tripping gas-lighting toxic positivity combined with the way she tried to put me on meds against my will. Sooner or later, I will leave my family so I can make a New one and see what my life may truly be in an attempt to get people, if properly motivated in their own terms, to protect human liberty and the exercise of free will. That is the true mark of a leader
Nice seeing Adewale again. It’s funny how you went from pirate to assassin in Black Flag and in here you go from assassin to Templar. So much change. I believe that’s where the good story telling ends as far as characters go
9:00
- insane trained assassin bursts into the room, kicking and screaming
- people get startled barelly managing to comprehend or answer anything
Fizhy: "They could try to calm Shay down and ask step by step what happened"
odiwalker you do understand that everyone else in that room was just as much trained, if not better trained than Shay, right?
@@davmohsh Just as much trained for what?
Hint: Not calming down and methodically elicit responses from frenzied hysterical assassins.
odiwalker what I am saying is, they would be startled if they were not assassins themselves. They know that Shay was off to Lisbon, so I am pretty sure that they can comprehend what Shay is so furious about. The fact that they don't stop to ask Shay what he's on about is a good indicator that they knew what happened and why. Also, remember that the people in that room included the Mentor of the Colonial Brotherhood of Assassins. Dealing with insane trained assassins is probably just another Tuesday for him.
@@davmohsh
I'm not gonna comment if they knew or could have known about the earthquake cause I think it could only be doable through logical jumps, like you did, but yeah I get you.
The thing is both the overly dramatic frenzy and a more understanding approach are not very realistic: one is just too much, the other too neat.
However, given that the whole debacle lasts less than a couple minutes before all went fubar it seems to me more understandable that the characters would act on a more wild manner rather than acting with more emotional intelligence and patience.
I mean these are fringy-secret society-assassins we're talking about
odiwalker that's the thing about the Colonial Brotherhood in general. If it was any other brotherhood, say, the French one, I think we would see the assassins being at least a little more rational. But the Colonial Brotherhood is mostly just a bunch of cutthroats, rather than actual assassins who hold on to their tenets. So yeah, that's why they acted that way, probably.
It is my belief that Shay is neither assassin nor templar at heart...
When the assassins in the new world were blind to their corruption he defected on them
When Connor was killing the corrupt templars, Shay did not interfere and rather worried himself about securing artefacts
Shay was his own creed, a protector of artefacts that should not be meddled with by ordinary men.
I wish we could know what happens beyond Rogue he was a badass
Another thing we can't forget is how shay acted before we actually see his story, maybe he was one of the worst in the brotherhood and didn't show much skill as an assassin but he just didn't see it fit to give it all you can in training, cause with the events played out in the game, the assassins learned real quick how skilled shay truly was and ultimately understood he felt the way he did, in a way shay made the brotherhood stronger and showed them that their beliefs did have flaws, the story does a good job making us understand that the assassins aren't always the good guys, and will do whatever is needed to have more resources in the fight against the templars, but that's just my opinion on Shays story and the games that follow after this
god i want to play rogue
Peder Rudi Play it, it's good. Narrative's good, gameplay's like Black Flag.
Peder Rudi
If you have 360 you can prolly find it at gamestop. if youre on Xbox One its in the Xbox store.
Its a fantastic video game play it
Al C ye but rogue has pengiuns and bf not
Problem is that the game is very glitchy, even for an Assassin Creed game, and the campaign is short. Besides that, the game is actually fairly decent
* Shay accuses Achilles of tricking him into starting an earthquake that kills thousands of people *
Fizhy: Why Did Shay Defect To The Templars?
It seems the assassins don’t appreciate/ respect their “brothers” unless they have mad undeniable skill and prowess on the battlefield, and constantly kiss their mentors ass. Not to say that there isn’t corruption on both sides as well as nobility on both sides
The Assassins can't always be the good guys just like the Templars can't always be the bad guys. I believe Shay betrayed the Assassins because they crossed a line with tampering with the precursor site in Lisbon which caused total destruction of Portugal which made Shay defect to the Templars
this is why I hate rouge all the assassin's had to do was listen to Shay and respect him a little more, it makes me wonder if the assassin's are truly the heroes
Booker Dewitt no they aint
Booker Dewitt well shay was acting just like anakin in Star Wars, an entitled overly emotional brat that was too cocky for his own good. Neither one were exactly innocent
Dakota M yea, that's why I said neither one is innocent
Booker Dewitt Who told you that the assassin's are the heroes of the franchise?
they aren't in my opinion
If you look closely at The basement of Achilles's House, you cna see Shay's Robe which means Shay came back at the Brotherhood
Or they killed him and took his robes as a trophy
@@NegaGandhi nah maybe if you die to a assassin or maybe they found it or made a copy
@@NegaGandhi they can never kill me
When Shay said one more hardly matters😭😭😭
He should've just told the teacher
Marcus Blackburn he did, but he was too stubborn to listen, and they kicked him out of the manor, after he told the brotherhood what happened
i think its both mistakes, achiles was too stubborn and didnt ask what the hell is going on, but shay also too emotional when confronting achiles.
Well, seeing as how Shay single-handedly caused one of the deadliest earthquake in history, a 9.0 earthquake, killing up to 100,000 innocents, and knowing that your superiors already knew about the same thing happening in Haiti, and sent you anyway...yeah, I'd be upset too.
madridista sejati its more of a PTSD or whatsoever. But the point is that we will indeed lose our shits when we caused an earthquake, killing thousands of innocents.
Yep, hence what Achillies said to Connor in AC3 On how he should not destroy the world whilst protecting it.
This was an interesting take on Shay's story, but yeah, I figured the whole miscommunication was the biggest catalyst to him defecting. 😐
And of course Connor doesn't get told about these events... it would be interesting if Conno and Shay came face too face and Shay giving his side of the story
The native dude seems more wise than the other teacher maybe hes from Connors tribe maybe his granddad or something on his mother's side of course
Wow, never played Rogue or watched the cutscenes but seeing this makes me want to.
It's fun
Rogue = one of the best AC games imo
story was fun shame it was so short
Clearly you haven't played 2 and black flag
@@bitumenroad4648 he said one of the best assassin's creed games he didn't say The best
@@edgyomellete0121 dude, rogue is a poor man's black flag
It doesn't stand close to 1,2, black flag and brotherhood
@@bitumenroad4648 that's you're opinion.
There should probably be another faction. One that consists of the likes of Shay. Because I feel like he's different from Assassins and Templars. He's like a Grey Jedi.
Long story short:
Shay believed that the assassins were trying to save the humanity by using the pieces of eden but he was wrong. The main assassins who were kesegowasse, Hope, Liam and achilees had everyone under their arm including shay and they were hypocrites. They said that they want the pieces of eden to save humanity by hiding the pieces from the templars . Shay believed in all of this, he did their errands but once he was given a mission to go to lisbon and get the piece of Eden. As he held the piece of eden in his hand, the entire city started to collapse resulting in destroying Libson completely. Shay went to the other assassins to tell them about this but all of them were against shay and thought that Shay was making things so he got shot in the back ..
After about a decade , Shay woke up in the house of finnegans and they basically cured him by giving him medicine etc.... Later, the french came in to the house of the finnegans to take some money etc.... Shay was badly injured yet he still fought the french in the house ... The man of the house ( i forgot his name) gave shay his gear back . Shay equipped all of it and returned the favor by capturing the stronghold of the french.. Along capturing the stronghold, he met a person called monroe who was a templar as well... They got to know each other better and they both had the same goals, Saving the humanity... Shay and monroe got along and did whatever necessary to stop the assassins... They suceeded but monroe died.... Then Shay met with Haytham and together they finally stopped the assassins.....
Hope this helps
Lol Shay didn't have to join the Templars tho. He could've just gone to another country to train. Mayve trained by Charles Dorian?
Dooky or he could just be vigilante stopping assassins and templars.
AmazingGaming Yeah
Dooky Yea but the Templars have way more resources than the assassin's and with those and his assassin skills he knew it would be so much easier to stop the idiot assassin's from doing what they were. plus, throughout the first half of the game he was questioning his morals and wondering if maybe the Templars were right
Cryptic Calypso Assassins have way more knowledge. Them specific Assassins broke two rules of the creed. It's not like all Assassin branches broke it.
He was excommunicated in the brotherhood
He technically defects from the Templars as well and becomes his own faction
J.D. Mack no, he does not
Even in the lore it says that he becomes a senior templar
headcanon?
he became a fkin master templar
When the first cinematic trailer came out, I actually expected to play a coldblooded traitor and not a betrayed sympathatic man who hunts assassins without a choice. I still like the story though and it is often easier to like a character who has been through hell rather than creating one. But it would have been interesting if AC Rogue’s story was focused on a former assassin who chose to betray the Assassin Brotherhood, whether he sided with the Templar Order or not, and just had a personal view of the creed which wasn’t right for him. So he follows ”his own creed”.
I think this is a great breakdown but I have one issue. I believe Liam shot Shay because they (The Assassin's) needed the manuscript and therefore didn't want him to jump off the cliff with it. However it does show that Liam, who was supposed to be his best friend cares more about the brotherhood and blindly follows them without questioning what they're actually doing, that can be said for all of them except Shay.
Nothing is permitted doesn't really mean you can do whatever nothing is true from what I've learned means to not follow your faith blindly
Why do y’all say Shay is “Rogue” yeah it’s the title but he’s literally a Templar thru and thru by the end
He doesn’t really care about Templar beliefs. He only joined them to take care of the brotherhood.
He went rogue lol
@@Nebularban I would agree with you if he stopped at the colonial assassin's but he kept killing members of the other brotherhoods as well. He is a Templar, don't sugar coat it lol
Apom Taylor Well people have to keep doing what they do best,either way the assassins are quite the hypocrites if you think about it
Nebular he literally spends 25 years tracking down the precursor box, located it, kills Charles Dorian because he was in possession of it, states in the epilogue “I follow a new creed now”, considers himself a Templar, and you think he “doesn’t really care about Templar beliefs”?! Dude did you even play rogue???
16 years, my bad. I had my dates mixed up. He spent 16 years tracking down the box. Still a very long time.
Amazing! I've been looking for an explanation for awhile! Thanks so much.
I think the quote "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" relates to both individuals and groups of people in power. Because there always comes a point where they become corrupted either through laziness or simply dismissing the tenants they were supposed to stand by
I find this tragic. Technically, Shay was trying to follow the Creed and felt that death was punishment for what happened in Lisbon. In other words, Shay didn't betray the brotherhood. The brotherhood betrayed Shay.
I actually love assassin's creed rogue
Since we get to explore the templars
and the clothing it offers. Also the weapons are very cool.
I’m about 3 years too late but I just want to say that I was shocked when I opened the video description and saw that this was not uploaded on April 1
I noticed that Shay's original assassin outfits has a order of ancients medallion on his belt. Could be intentional or not but still something to point out.
Tbh, Shay is a better person than most the assassins in the game,
I mean in a mission, assassins literally pickpocket a civilian,
Not to mention that they already killed how many civilians to find the so called “artifact”
this whole video, just some friendly assassin banter XD
At first I thought you did way too much explaining but at the end of it I was happy you did.
I haven't played this one yet.
I enjoy the breakdown and I would watch another assassins creed video
This was a great format, thanks for sharing!
Rouge is probably the best Assassin's Creed. I know it's my favorite.
Demonwolf570 Neat! My favorite is AC III.
My favorite Assassin's creed is II
I haven't played ac 3 but I want to if they remaster it
You need to experience the real Assassin's Creed games.
@@ecvjtv2778 Everybody has their own choice. respect it.
So for other words, he became a Templar because they didn't treat him with kid gloves.
If the Order was nicer he wouldn't have killed them.
Brilliant!
Nah I think Fizhy just wanted them to give him more respect. it was mainly about how the assassins responded to Shay's complaint about the earthquake.
Roomkeyz007 they also broke the Creed
Well the assassins did destroy a city or 3
The broke the creed and therefore may not even have been assassins in his eyes anymore so one could even say he did what he had to do to cleanse the order if that's how he chose to think of it. We don't know of course but there are so many ways he could have possibly thought but we don't really know.
If I treat you like shit everyday and we become enemies, whose fault is that?
I have a strong feeling that Achilles never told Connor about this era of the brotherhood when they first met. If he had at the beginning, it is very likely that he never would've trusted Achilles enough to join the Assassins, despite still having realized his past mistakes.
Acheles has changed a lot over the years
LOL WHO
@@scottadams5901 Apple bees, can you not read? lol!
a chilly?
I have one theory for ac rogue, i feel like the events in rogue never actually took place, in the first sequences youll learn that a virus broke out in abstergo entertainment
The cause of this was a file called shay patrick cormac, what if tht file was purposely created by a templar to fool the user( guy ur playing ass in modern time) to see the perks of being a templar and how good some templars can be, which is why in previous and future games in the series, there really isnt any reference for shay cormac. Ofc its just my opinion pls dont hate😋
Skyrimadik15 damn,this actually make sense
Skyrimadik15 good theory
A quite good theory but only Ubisoft knows the truth
Unless its the only one they didnt change
sounds legit
Great video amazing points assassins creed Rogue is one of my favourite games and this video had great points
Pandadoes gaming Rogue is one my favorites too. This video reminds of why I loved it so much and also makes me regret selling it to GameStop after upgrading to Xbox One.
What an exceptional analysis! Great work!
Dude wow, I haven't noticed how they've treated him even though I finished the story mose twice. Thanx
Do more like this and I'm likely to subscribe.
However, the reason that Shay defected was because it was what a lot of fans wanted, and ex assassin turned templar. It was a request on the forums for years, so ubisoft did it. The game was purely fan service, which in this instance, wasn't a bad thing.
Also, because the script said so.
There's an in-story reason though. Haha
Probably why they made it, length-wise, the bare minimum instead of fully fledged - if they did Rogue because they wanted to, not because the fans ordered it, that might have been different
i Like that and it had Merit it's not a good guy it's not a bad guy it's The fan's like myself wanted i don't know about everyone else but i get tired of biasd about the assassins as being portrayed as good guy's and give the templers a bad name it's about time that we play as The templers because they are pretty cool and they have the cool iron cross logo and our own identity and we didn't have to deal with Desmond miles and all that hu
hollihoops
I think it has to do with Ubisoft wanting to shift away from the templars being just the bad guys