Lugers in Thailand: The Siamese Artillery Luger
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- čas přidán 12. 04. 2024
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In 1936 and 1937, Siam purchased a batch of several hundred new Luger pistols for the Bangkok Police, including 100 long-barreled lP08 Artillery Lugers. These were new production gun, but made with surplus WW1-era barrels, sights, and stocks. The Siamese serial numbers range from 3450v to 3553v. The guns are standard Mauser production, all dated 1936, similar to the purchases by Persia and Turkey around the same time. The one distinctive marking on the Siamese contract are local rack numbers added to the back oft he frame some time after World War Two - a circled lion’s head emblem and a 3-digit Thai number (this example translates to #278). Those rack numbers are not exclusive to the 1936 Lugers, as they are also seen on other pistols in Bangkok police service.
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Hello, Ian. Thai here, I can't make out a lot of the writings on the stock (the handwriting is very rough and there's a lot that's illegible from the damage), but in the middle of the third line I can see "เลขที่ 2525" which means No. 2525. Then five lines down I can make out "April 88," presumably "April 2488." To note, we use the Buddhist calendar rather than the Christian calendar, so the month and year here would translate to April of 1945 in A.D.
Get this on the top
Thank you, @Frost-lp8su
Whoah, cool! Agreed for sure, this comment stays at the top!
Also something about "Button" and a "grip" on first line? I think i see "ปุ่ม" and "ด้าม" on the first line
didn't expect to meet another Thai here lol
Very cool thank you.
Happy Songkran everyone.
Today is the Thai New Year.
Edit: just to add on the Thai theme, handguns seem to be fairly common in the Kingdom, and there's a very wide variety of makes. Something I noticed on a recent stay in Chiang Mai, some of the local police had very old Walther PP and PPKs as their sidearm. Either nickel plated or with the blueing completely worn off.
Modern Thai police service pistols are individual purchased, basically no standardization. They get government incentive for purchasing new firearms, which would lower price around 30-40% from civilian market price.
Happy Songkran! I literally just found this video while getting ready to go to the temple. What a coincidence!
This video was posted April 13, 2024, just in case someone is looking at it, sometime in the future.
Huh my brother's birthday today now he has something interesting happening same day 😂
@@jpkosoltrakul ...ooook...that's way many times Thai police officers carry ridiculously shiny and big revolvers Dirty Harry style ...private own guns...not very handy but they look cool 😎...I love Thailand 🇹🇭 and Thailand people...have a good Songkran
The letter on the buttstock is so warn out that the only parts I can read is Pistol's number 3535 (in thai number the number 3 that wrote on it look like number 2) and april 2488 BE (1945 AD), my speculation that the latter is about the gun brief record because i saw a lot of date writing on it.
Are you sure it's 3535 and not 2525? (I see ๒๕๒๕)
@@mrsem6670Another Thai person here, it does seem that way. Odd discrepancy, isn’t it?
My dad had a beautiful 1936 Luger that he purchased from his stockbroker, who was a Colonel in Germany during the war, where he obtained he gun with matching magazine too. He had me sell it so he could by a new Nikon. I always wanted that gun and to this day wish I had the money at the time to buy it.
Sold it for a Nikon? Not that there aren't a lot of desirable Nikon's made in the later half of the 20rh century but my goodness a numbers matching Luger from a colonel in the vermaect. O my , worst trade of all time.
I have a similar story. Will never see the likes of that gun again. But at least we have a worthless consolation prize.
Captain Englehorn uses a Artillery Luger in Peter Jackson’s King Kong, 7 year old me thought that was the coolest thing.
Props to you for appreciating its coolness at such a tender age.
Your seven year old self wasn't too far wrong if you ask me. I can't think of many handguns that are cooler from a visual point of view.
I was probably the only adult that actually liked that movie?! I really liked the P08 in that film too!
@@robertunderdunkterwilliger2290 I still like that movie as a adult, probably my favorite King Kong movie actually, the PS2 official game for the movie was really good too.
Thomas kretschmann (Capt. Englehorn), was also the U-boat captain in the movie U-235, carrying a Naval Luger, if he carried an Army Luger in The Pianist or Valkyrie, he would have carried all 3 Luger types (?), l don't know if it means anything, but, l thought it kind of Luger cool (?)...........
The letters on the stock are 2 parts.
First, the discription of the gun, ปืนสั้น --- ด้ามมีซองปืนพานท้ายไม้ หมายเลขที่ ๒๕๒๕ ( ๓๕๓๕? ) / --- ที่ ---
( Pistol --- the grip has wooden stock holster, or with holster Number 2525 ( 3535? ) / ---- at ----
And the second part is some sort of Import or recieve dates. Like
รับไป --- ๔ เม.ย. ๘๘
(Recieved --- 4th of April 2488 BE / 1945 AD) and on the last line " รับ " translated to "Recieve".
I looked at it for almost 30 minutes and still can't make out most of the words, the handwriting is too hard to read.
I'll make some edits later if I see anything new.
thailand mentioned on songkran day lets go
Watch out for rice flour and buckets of water?
A nice piece of history, there in that Luger.
The artillery Luger, is such a modern looking (futuristic, even) weapon. Realistically, in Thailand's climate, especially in the wet season, the leather wouldn't have lasted very long anyway.
The museums in Thailand often only show weapons from ancient history of the country before Napoleonic era. It is quite nice to actually see some from this period of history.
the Royal Thai army ordnance museum has a nice collection of modern firearms.
@@marc-lq9hfwell, National Meseum Bangkok should have some
@@rattakornkarnchanah8714 At least they have some good old muskets and swords, plus the artillery collection is cool at the grand palace near Wat Phra Kaew.
Remember as a kid in the late '60s drooling over a wooden box with the German Nazi insignias on it...
And inside was the artillery Luger, round magazine, wooden stock, paperwork (in German) and leather belts. The shop owner owner wanted $200.00 for.it...
MAN...🙁
That's the equivelant of almost $2500, which is what some people want for normal lugers today.
Happy Songkran
Thailand mentioned 🇹🇭🇹🇭🙏🙏🙏
Always a delightful new artifact!
Ian's introduction and my wife immediately sings "We are Siamese if you please. We are Siamese if you don't please."
Iconic! 😂
Every 80’s kid has that song in a playlist, somewhere. 😂
@@The_Red_Off_Road To say nothing of kids from the '50s, '60s, and '70s.
🎶We are former residents of Siam. There you'll find no finer cat than I am🎶 😁
@@steveh1792 true that. I was really referencing the proliferation of the VCR and how that allowed kids to watch the same thing 30 times a day. I know those movies have been around longer, but I was pointing to the days of VCRs.
What a helpful group of commentators.
Another informative & very entertaining production from FW. Thanks are Due 👍🏼
It’s amazing 🇹🇭
I read a little Thai it says "Don't do a mud test"...Maybe some other gentlemen here can confirm.
Thank you for providing us with unique information about this particular Artillery Luger pistol, it makes its background very cool and interesting for its new owner.
Ethan I had a German Luger in that same configuration years ago. I could kick myself in the ass for selling it. I had no idea what those were worth. But that's when I was young and dumb. I have a friend that has a collection that you wouldn't believe. His guns are priceless. He even has guns you've never heard of. And I know he'd love to meet you. God bless brother 🙏
Work of art, and well preserved.
uuuhm no, this is a very mass-produced gun. all factory, no art.
@@Ass_of_Amalek For me, gold plated, engraved one of a kind perfect ivory handle gun is a kitsch, tasteless kitsch. Gun for pimp or dictator.
For me, this Luger is a gun that gentelman with taste and means should have in his collection.
If i had it, my son and i would take it to the range once a month to enjoy it with expensive German ammo. And it would be held in mahagony box.
@@sinisatrlin840 factory products are not art, not even nice factory products. art is not a quality rating.
@@Ass_of_Amalek Art is in eye of observer, in his hart and his mind.
Korth, Manurhin, Luego, Holland&Holland or other one of the kind highly expensive guns that are made to order are also factory made.
Please look at the video of Holland&Holland engraving by hand.
I do not think that this highly expensive Luger is build to higher quality standard that 550$ Glock.
It is not about quality, it is not about number built, it is not about reliability.
Andy Warhol may dissaprove with you about factory built art. Art can be everywhere and nowhere, anything and nothing.
Sidney opera is work of art, same as Golden Gate bridge. Made by army of man, using industrial means.
Raymond Loewy was great artist in my book. One that would never be replaced.
He did not do "traditional" art like painting, sculpture...but he made his mark in art.
@@sinisatrlin840 nah. elements of gun design can be called art, but even that really is craftsmanship. I'm not saying it's bad though, craftsmanship is usually better than art. most art sucks because so much art is made by people who never learned to do things a right way. there's a sort of substitution of quality with narcissism, that doesn't fly with craftsmanship or industrial production.
Hi Ian. I have a Siamese Artillery Luger with the frame marked DWM and 1918 behind the barrel. All serial numbers match with the exception of the barrel which is not dated. About the barrel: It appears to predate the rest of the gun since it has an adjustable front sight, which as I understand, adjustable front sights were discontinued after 1917. On the rear of the frame a circled lions head (called a "Naga") and three symbols in Sanskrit are stamped into the frame. The frame is marked 7503 in the A block. I was pleasantly surprised to see a video on this "Forgotten Weapon". If this gun could talk, it would be very interesting to know the journeys it took. I thoroughly enjoy your videos. Very informative!
Gun jesus fan from Thailand here, Thank you for reviewing such rare and valuable piece of firearm we don't even know it exist in our history.
BTW upon additional text deciphering after @Frost-Ip8su this sticker seems to be inheritance documents from the original gun owner or the officer who had it in his possesion, which seems to fit since it was issued almost a decade after manufacturing year.
You for exploring our gun , we have a lot of wacky gun that I am sure you would apreciate
Pretty cool thanks for sharing
Damn we are getting lots of videos this week
Great video.
Don't know if I'm imagining things but the top right corner of the sticker is the word "ด้าม" which may refer to the stock. Right in the middle of the 5th line is also what looks to be the word "ผู้หมวดมด" which could be the name of the intended recipient of this luger?
I love seeing well-known guns in uncommon places.
I spent a special vacation with a Thai Luger once
Super neat!!
Bring in Lugers, don't bother to re-match parts. Aiiieeeee!
An old class3 dealer told me when Interarmco imported guns in the 1960's, they broke guns down and packed receivers in 1 crate, top covers in another, bolts in a 3rd, etc. This not for easier shipping, but because import duty on "parts" was less than on "guns". No matter that all the parts for the gun
were on the same manifest. Matching numbers on an Interarmco MG34, MP40, etc, were just about non-existent.
Yeah, that’s a true story.
Didn't they have the death penalty in Thailand at the time of import of the Lugers 🤔😂
@@MrArray1967 I think the Kingdom still does for more serious offences.
Stocked pistols are, for me, just so damn cool.
Very nice.
Do the zastava master flg-Americans will love it(Zastava biggest ak importer in country)
I can only read 2 thing in this ol paper xD
3rd column เลขที่ ๒๕๒๕ "No. 2525"
5th column ๔ เม.ย. ๘๘ "4 april 88"
Wow, I love Thai WW2 history. I need to go visit and find one of their old Adrian helmets. I have their postwar refurbished Japanese helmet.
There should be a "Guruda stamp" or official of government stamp on the chamber. The contract to the 3rd Rice under "arms foce moderlization acts of 1934" that some donation from the people will have a name plate on the stock of the gun.
Neat
The lion or Singha seal (ตราสิงห์) is actually for minister of interior, and the logo for all Thai police is the sword and shield.
Noting today's email from Numrich indicates their replica of the 32 round snail drum magazine and loading tool for Artillery Lugers is again (briefly I am sure) available again. 🙂
Hej. I have heard you reference “rack numbers” before and I am not dead sure what that exactly refers to. I mean I know it’s a rack, but can you explain the context of this rack and why so many military and police departments use racks?
A rack number refers to an ID number assigned by the group/organization that is using the weapon. E.g. a police department has 20 Mossberg 500 shotguns. The department numbers the guns from 01 to 20. When they issue a weapon to an officer, they record the rack number rather than having to keep track of a serial number which can be much bigger.
@@robertcowley-yamamoto4880 thanks! That makes sense and is a pretty good way of doing things.
on the sticker said
...
...ของปืนพาลาเบลลัม
หมายเลขที่ ๒๕๒๕
...
รับไป ๔ เม.ย. ๘๘
...
...
[translate]
...
... for parabellum gun
No. 2525
...
take 4 Apr 88
...
...
(2488BE = 1945AD)
maybe the sticker said about
the stock of the gun and information who and when this gun withdraw from the armory
4th paragraph could it be
๔๙๔ ที่ ... ๐๑ มค ... 494 of ... 01 JAN
the sticker on the buttstock looks a lot like the sort of typical buddhist good luck charms that people add, for example, above the drivers seat in their cars, to the highest places inside their homes, and in amulets they wear around. The text is mostly normal characters but it's got some squiggles that you could call 'calligraphy' if you were generous, although, this could be badly scratched-on instructions for whoever was in charge of storing it too. I can read/write thai to some level, and I see words like "put" and "have" and less translatable particles, but I don't see a coherent message anywhere in it, and some of the fragments COULD be royal/religious significance words that lends me toward thinking this is some kind of good luck charm for whoever carries the gun.
Early gang let's fricking go
What shooting mat do you use?
Hi off topic but the rifle in the background got me thinking…..why do some bipods have a flat metal plate with holes in that sits along the leg
Sand holes. In soft ground, they can be staked into the soil. Thats how you can distinguish Israeli 1919 tripods from others.
I wonder what the real world accuracy is like with these, it always felt like the backside and banjos factor increases the fancier a pistol carbine looks 😂
Thai Lugers are also renowned for having their barrels replaced with a flange .. 😅
I'd like to one day see someone make an actual artillery Luger....by which I mean an ARTILLERY Luger. Just a nonsensically large Luger that fires 88mm artillery shells.
Thai's gun on Songkran day coincidence? anyway Happy Songkran day everyone!
(For who didn't know Songkran is Thai new year day :D )
The URL has the letters G U and N which is pretty funny.
The URL of this video says 'GUN'. Coincidence? I think not!
I noticed that too!
I'm in Thailand and a restaurant owner I know has one. How much is it worth on the market?
I read up on Thai gun laws a while back and it seems it's actually not that hard for civilians to own firearms.... It's a "May issue" scheme but, it seems more permissive than most countries...
the other bonus using artillery luger for police use, a club
It says " not intended as a paddle to spank bad children" 😮
They prefer the term "Conjoined" ^_^
All stay at home Thai homie during Songkran click this real quick😂
Bangkok is Bangkok. I suspect the police were busy
👍
Thai good….. shirt good too.
โอ มีปืนจากเราสักที
When the video link itself says GUN
Social media page for owners of Siamese Lugers to exchange parts? (Only half joking)
Btw, I always wondered : the 1911 is still out there, produced and modernized, but not the luger, is it just because the german lost the war ? because it's too complex and expensive too be profitable ? because the top moving parts make the use of optics pretty complex ? all of that ? I'm sure plenty of people would love a modernized luger 😁
There have been a couple attempts (i believe most common is mitchell arms ones), but the luger is a very expensive design and a new production luger would most likely just cost as much as an original
I remember Stoeger released a stainless steel Luger back in the 90s, that was probably the last time a major manufacturer offered one. There's a reason even the Germans replaced the Luger with the P38, with its more reliable and less complex to manufacture dropping block action.
Why does the whole world got Lugers but not me.
720p??
Oriental setting.
But the city don't know what the city is getting.
The sticker is pretty worn out and the handwriting is pretty bad so it's hard to make out what's being written here, but there's this one bit here:
"เลขที่ ๒๕๒๕" I'll assume it's either some specific number and date related to the gun, or a note/journal of the owner.
"Luger!
(duh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh)
Oh honey honey!
(duh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh)
You are my best sidearm!
And i can't stop shooting you!
Luger!
(duh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh)
Oh honey honey!
(Duh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh)
Your toggle action is really weird!
And magazines so hard to load!"
-The Archies
I tried to let Google Lens give it a shot 😂 but it missed almost totally. Only a single meaningful word came out: Love 😂
Don't know if the Thais who commented can recognize this?
Don't forget that 10mm is dead...
One night in Bangkok...
Please review 327 Fed Mag Ruger LCR, SP101, GP100
This pistol look very sexy with the stock.
hunter thompson ass gun
First
golthrl
That Thai handwriting is atrocious.... Ugh.
There is something intelligible
A note of it's caliber, "Parabellum"
A date, 4 April 1945
It look like it belonged on a display in some sort of museum.
Not only some words have different way of spelling back in almost a hundred years ago, to add extra confusions, during 1942 to 1944 (2485-2487 BE), Field marshal Phibunsongkhram had ordered to simplify Thai language by ditch several alphabets with repetitive consonant, made it how words spelled somewhat closer to modern Laotian language do.
Anyway, this is how I think the note was possibly written (so it might completely way off):
* * means not sure
... means no idea
1st row; *ปืน*...*ไม้ต่อด้าม*
= *gun*...*wood for connect to grip [stock]*
2nd row; มีของ......................
= have..............
3rd row; *หมาย* เลขที่ ๒๕๒๕
= number 2525
4th row; ๔๙.....ที่ *ผู้มวดมด*....
= 49....at *Lieutenant Mod [name of the Lt.]*
(it should spelled "ผู้หมวด", maybe that's how it spelled back then, or I'm completely wrong)
5th row; ...........*๔* เม.ย. ๘๘
= ...........*4* Apr. 88
6th row; *ซองปืน*...*ไม้ต่อด้าม*
= *holster*...*wood for connect to grip [stock]*
(possibly repeat the first row somehow)
This is not a comment.