Today we discuss which is the best Hellenic faction on Rome Total War (Greek Cities, Seleucids, Macedon and Thrace) Second channel: / @lugoreviews2805 Discord: / discord
@@Corbynmorris9 Falxmen in front lines and on the flanks with your generals milia hoplites can also make the front line with phalange behind the militia hoplites and falxmen on either flank again with the generals. Thrace is a beast if used correctly. Left to right three lines deep/ Line 1 general-falxmen-falxmen-falxmen-general Line 2 militia hoplites (stretch them three men deep) Line 3 phalanges five men deep ( place line 3 directly behind line 2 so that the front men of line three are touching the rear men of line 2 like its one unit) In this formation you have a front line/flanks of very excelent shock troops (General Cavalry, falxmen, peltasts) this force is highly mobile and does not tire easy. Perfect to wait till the enemy is upon you then like a trap you spring your front line into attack half targeting the left flank and half targeting the right. Envelop the flanks and push through behind them. Now you have your Cavalry/falxmen behind their line free to cycle charge and reign chaos. The enemy at this point is to close to lines 2-3 that they cannot afford to make line 1 a priority forcing them to try to push to line 2-3 while fleaing/skirmishing line 1 as much as they can further taking pressure of your formation and placing it on the enemy like a vise. The secret weapon to this is lines 2-3. If placed like I instructed upon contact with lines 2-3 the enemy will find themselves pined agaisnt a wall of 8 spear heads between them and the actual men in lines 2-3. They will be broken upon contact almost instantly if not before they even reach ypur spears then you mop it up.
Selucids even tho they can have a rough start. Elephants. Chariots. Cavalry. Heavy infantry. Phalanx units. Literally theyve got one of the most well rounded rosters in the game.
I once had a Seleucid army composed entirely of cataphracts and scythed chariots, just for the hell of it. I encountered a full Brutii legion in Greece, and it placed my army at the top of a mountain with the Romans at the bottom. Needless to say, there weren't many green uniforms left running around at the end.
they have everything... but they cant have the BEST legionaries or the BEST pikemen... still, they are so flexible and have good quality of everything. their hoplites can hold gates and bridges pretty well early on, with militia cav providing fire support, ideally to the flanks, and also perfect for killing enemies who run away.
@@Scorpion88888 i found the best use of chariots or elephants, is to charge them into infantry, keep going through the other side, and then when the broken and scattered troops are all over the place, standing up and turn around...they get hit by your cav (ideally general or heavy cav) in their now exposed rear. scattered broken units facing away...are the easiest target for cav. then i send my militia cav to kill the survivors who run...and there is no way they wont run... also chariots are insanely deadly vs cav, especially if u charge through them and keep going. any cav touching their wheels is dead.
I love the recruitment system and the general traits system. I never felt attached to my generals and units in Rome 2. The economy with inter-settlement trade feels good too. There is asymmetry, some settlements are worth a lot, others are crap. It gives them personality and more strategic choice instead of Rome 2 where as long as you have one full province you are always good.
Agreed in all aspects, I know the Seleucids are a little bit of a meme among players but if you're good enough to survive those first 15-20 turns, I think they're straight up the strongest army in the game (and yeah not great archers but you start close to Cretan archer territory). In 15 years of playing this game I have never seen Thrace take more than like 4 settlements before they're destroyed lol. Great content glad I found your channel, keep em coming!
Thank you!! Yeah Seleucids have many jokes about them but actually their roster is surprisingly good, shame about the super difficult starting position though
The Seleucids have absolutely no jokes or memes about their unit roster, nobody makes fun of that. Their wretched starting position is literally their only weakness. It's nearly impossible for a faction that starts set up for war on 4 fronts to live long enough to even gear up for war, much less build up to be a high tech powerhouse.
@@lugotorix6173 you forgot that Macedon unlocks the light lancers first and then with a stable upgrade unlock the greek cavalry so you can actually recruit light lancers on the first turn
@@richardkenan2891 I don't destroy Parthia,I try to be friends with Armenians or Pontus, preferably with Armenians.I go to Egypt from the defense, when there are not enough troops from it, I capture and again hold the defense.If you remove Egypt, the rest of the pests are easy to soak.Greek cities are also trying to oust,their ear plus they need everything exactly
Tip on surviving the start as Seleucids: poor morale doesn't matter if you camp your town square in the defence. A few militia hoplites can do wonders when they have nowhere to run.
They can't rout if they're already standing in the town square. That's the point. They'll just keep "wavering" while they continue fighting till the last man.
Seleucids were always my favorite faction to play. Such a strong arsenal of units that will counter any challenge you face with brutal effectiveness. It was also really fun to run three stacks of scythed chariots through legions and watch them instantly break. Their starting situation is definitely one of the hardest in the game, but once you get blacksmiths everywhere it is pretty much downhill.
...blacksmiths and excellent, cheap temples;) The seleucid earlygame rooster is overpowerd too and super underratet by many players In my opinion, the militia hoplites are so much better than every other militia unit and whit chariots, they make a good job to save the cretean archers;) and with elephants and a lot of denarii... the entire east is yours in 10 - 20 years
The "seleucids, which are probably the hardest faction to play in the entire game" 10 year old me winning rome for the only time "hahahaha. Phalanx go brrrrr"
I agree with you. For me Carthage was harder. Seleucids can hold firm in their cities since the AI isn't very clever and they intend to get through a Militia Hoplites wall using light cavalry (Armenia, Parthia).
@@alejandrop.s.3942 dumb AI is the bane of any decent total war player. It can totally ruin the fun for you. Its among the many reasons why I hold any game before Empire at the bottom of my tier list. But one issue every game seems to have, is the enemy General Leeroy Jenkins-ing right into your spear line lol
@@alexanderrahl7034 In Rome II it's the other way round. The enemy general tends to be so far away from the action that sometimes he's utterly useless since he doesn't provide any support for his troops. For instance, I remember playing a battle as Macedon vs Epirus, where the enemy general (Hellenic Royal Guard, which would have melt my Levy Pikemen) was at the opposite side of the Battlefield doing random stuff... For me it's also very frustrating the bugs, pathfinding and non-senses mechanics.
Seleucids are my favorite faction. After you get past the initial challenge, they become one of the strongest factions. They have one of the most diverse and and strongest armies in the game. Their region is economically rich.
@@allshipper2158 I haven't found it too difficult, plus if it is, you can always migrate your faction somewhere else and give up some of your cities (and then rebuild from there)
You have to play as the Seleucids for the challenge and their amazing unit roster (the best roster of the hellenics in my opinion) Also, congrats on over 8k subs, not too long ago you were at 3k, so you made epic progress :)
The Selucids definitely are the best because of their powerful cavalry, elephants that destroy as well as their mobile legionnaires that can turn a flank when needed or hold the front line, the only weakness they have is their archers but even that isn't much of a weakness because their cheap.
@@allewis4008 well with selucids, the strategy is to gove up hatra amd Damascus so therefore you only have 2 cities to defend. Then get as many agreements as possible and expand into Egypt with the denarii you have, you should have teched up to levy pikemen by that point which will destroy early game Egypt
One thing people often forget is that Armoured Hoplites only take 1 turn to create, whereas a lot of the elite units take 2 turns. 2 units of Armoured hoplites can beat 1 unit of Spartans/Royals/Silver Shields etc, and ofc you can also create them at minor city level. They are one of the best units in the game and the only infantry unit they might struggle against is the standard Phalanx Pikemen with their longer pikes.
They have very strong infantry, possibly even stronger than Rome, especially when adding Spartans (and Syracusans) to the mix. But their cavalry is very weak and they are really a one-trick horse (pun intended). If you encounter the Scythians or Parthians, you will take heavy losses. Not to say it can't be done; I did a WC on VH/VH as the Greek Cities. But it was quite a challenge.
The seleucids are my favorite faction so easy one for me. They start with 2 wonders too btw. Yeah the beginning is hard, but i actually Think pikes are OP. As soon as you get them (2 grade Baracks i believe) you can basically hold any settlement with only 4-5 pikesunits. At legendary diff, focus on defendig/attacking rebels until you get elephants to launch counterattacks. Let infantry engage with your pikes, use 2-4 Units of cavalry to harass archers and elephants to attack infantry from behind. (When Enemy has better cav, try to Shield your own cav with elephants) As a sidenote, maybe you should also have included Buildings/ esp Tempels to go along with your review? I enjoyed it anyways though. Nice nostalgia, Keep it up
@@danielbalderrama4137 Its true, they dont, but they are the most faction unique buildings (look at Romans), a Temple of Artemis can make Bad archers to decent archers for example. And to be honest, i Never played makedon so i didnt know what their Tempels are like. Also what can make a big difference if you cant Build the highest tier of Ports for example. A Brief look wouldve been nice imo
I would correct to "under *competent* player control" I tried Seleucid and got absolutely stomped :P Macedon was fun though, and managed to defeat the Romans
@@Nutty31313 Any idiot can dominate with a phalanx based army. Make a square and put missile troops in the center. For defending towns, do that in the city square. You won't lose unless they have oangers throwing fire, which I've never seen the AI do.
@@theindooroutdoorsman Thanks for calling me an idiot for not thinking of a strategy that would literally make the game extremely boring. It may be the way to get victory, but I prefer to have fun over get easy wins. If I can do both, great, otherwise I will prioritise fun.
@@Nutty31313 If you like agressive playstyle, try it again :) ! The Empire is the secret King of Blitzkrieg and you don't need the "Phalanx Turtle Tactic" You need: 1. Money Money Money, be the richest faction in the earlygame 2. Buy Harlikanassos & mind the wonders 3. Buy Mercenaries!!! and have a focus on Chariots & Elephants to Support your Militia Troops 4.Allies, as much as possible (even Pontus & Aegypt) 5. The "Schlieffen-Plan" Defeat Pontus first & conquer the entire West (Anatolia) as early as possible Conquer Salamis & Sidon as early as possible to nerf aegypt 6. Attack is the best Defense Full Armies in your Homeland waste money & time Attack your enemies on the most vulnerable cities
I used to fall asleep playing this game into the night, with the music and ambience burrowing deep into my subconscious. This game is eternal nostalgia for me.
Yeah, Macedon has a stronger starting position. Seleucids require you to go full Blitz in order to even survive, but if you do survive, you will have a ton of good territory, and a great roster to tech into. And you are farther from the Romans, so you can choose how to engage them. Whereas Macedon should just ally Thrace, Kick the Greeks out of Greece, and then you're on a timer to finish Rome.
I think macedon is pretty good when controlled by the player as well. They get their good cavalry relatively early in the game, and their archers are pretty solid as well.
I actually agree with the rankings, except the final rankings. Thrace last, definitely. I'm pretty sure Macedon gets Light Lancers before they get Greek Cavalry, and you can definitely be aggressive with pikes.
I started a Macedon campaign a while ago on hard/VH difficulty. Took Thermon and Sparta fairly quickly off the Greeks, and was quite surprised when I sacked the Brutii out of Apollonia, and succesfully took their capital as well. So that you ranked Macedonia as the best hellenic faction isn't that surprising from what I've experienced. Way better early in the game than the Greeks or Seleucids. Great content you continue to put out, keep it up Lugo!
I found that blitzkrieging Italy as Macedon was frighteningly easy. But a super fun campaign! Also I just noticed this is a 3 year old video and comment. Why did I just get it recommended?!
thanks for the video, was really fascinating! also i wonder if there'd be any seleucid's campaign walkthrough? looking forward to watch how you deal with them!
I love the seleucids, but with Thrace, if you can capture Byzantium at the start, make ports at all three cities, form alliances, gain enough trade rights, and harvest the natural resources like the metals, you can become self sufficient, and support large armies. With hoplites and phalanxes, alongside falxmen, you have some of the best of both worlds. Hoplite phalanxes, and barbarian shock troops make for a terrifying combination.
I recently took down a city with an assassin. Dacia were in the middle of troop movements with their war with Macedon and I was playing as Thrace. They left their capital which neighboured me, with just 1 unit of their faction leaders general body guard. My well trained assassin killed him and his body guard unit subsequently dissipated. I was then able to simply walk through the gates with 1 unit and take the city
IMO the Selucid Empire has the best roster in the entire game, Elite Pikemen, Legionaries, Cataphracts, Chariots, Elephants... They have the best units of every other faction, the only thing they're missing is Horse Archers.
I honestly think thrace is pretty good if used right, I once destroyed a 600 strong Macedonian army with my 200 strong army, hold a position with phalanx pikemen and flank the enemy with Falxmen, their levy pikemen got slaughtered on mass. Anyways, great video!
The main problem I've found with the Seleucids is that the major reason to play them is their late game roster. By the time I'm teched up enough to use any of those units, it's essentially me against the Roman world, and once I take Rome the game ends. So 90% of the game I'm using militia rubbish. The advanced units also generally take two turns to train, so using all these cool, flashy units takes forever. The Greeks don't have this problem, even if their cavalry is poor.
When you win the campaign you are asked if you want to continue. The assumption is that if you have half the territories (nearly) with all the best ones then total domination is nearly certain and only an idiot could fail to win this game fromthat position.
@@maxmagnus777 Yes they do. If I remember right I don't think Macedon can make paved roads, but the Thracians can and asside from the top military buildings (stables, barraks, ranges), their buildings go all the way to level 5. Also it isn't as useful in the campaign as it is in custom battles, but their armored general is Barbarian so it's better than the other Greek faction's armored generals despite not having heavy cav.
Love this list! As far as what I like to choose to do in campaigns Seleucids and Macedon are probably top 2 of the Hellenic factions. Also even though the Seleucids have a challenging start I found one of the easiest strats to prioritize your eastern territory and build around there and be more willing to take losses to the west if needed, then once you’ve grown your settlements and improved your recruitment capabilities you can start really crushing bigger factions.
My strat was always to focus on one faction that is attacking me and the rest of the fronts I just have 4/5 militia Hoplites in the cities and hold on for dear life.
I had a game playing as the Brutii where I decided to ally with the Seleucids and then took the three main Egyptian cities by dropping a full stack in via boat, rendering them bankrupt. Seleucids proceeded to wipe out Armenia, Parthia, Pontus, the Greek Cities and then steamrolled through most of the Scythian territory too. Beating them when they finally turned felt borderline impossible at times
I was scared to play the Seleucids, but boy their starting position isn't nearly as difficult as people make it out to be. You just need to be aggressive and have a clear plan. The first thing to note is that they have an amazing economy. You'll be making a lot of money from the start and you have the hanging gardens to make farms very profitable. Secondly, and this may sound cheesy, but being spread out and having many enemies means you can just attack in all directions. And that is what you should be doing from turn one. Build basic barracks wherever you dont have em, then build walls wherever you dont have em, and upgrade the barracks in antioch to gain access to phalanx pikemen at turn 5. Basic stables give milita cav which is actually pretty good at the start to serve both a skirmish and light cav role running down fleeing units or making them flee with a rear charge when they're engaged in combat. Not great against other cav, but very useful vs the first tiers of infantry you'll be facing at the start. You rush Seleucia to Susa to clear that eastern front. With mercs you win. Sardis moves up to Pergamum to kick out the greek cities from the mainland. Rhodes will still be there, but you'll deal with that later. Antioch and Damascus move down to Sidon and then Jerusalem. Hatra and Tarsus just build up militia hoplites to defend against inevitable Armenian and Pontic aggression. And those are really the only places you need to defend, the rest is offense. Ignore the rebel settlements, the nearby factions are the threat you want to start dismantling asap. From Susa you move north towards Arsakia, with reinforcements from Seleucia. After taking Arsakia you turn on the Armenians from the east. After Pergamum you deny Nicomedia and/or Ankara from Pontus and lay into them. By the time you declare, Tarsus will have enough troops to hold and your western asia minor settlements are shielded by your army coming in. The egyptian front just keeps rolling up cities, making sure no egyptian army escapes into the desert and surprises you with a stack of nubian spearmen after a bunch of turns. The now pontic and armenian fronts support each other and pretty quick antioch can switch from sending troops south to sending troops north. Since your starting economy is so strong, you can start pumping out units from the start. Since you're aggressive, you'll be taking quite a few settlements which bolster your economy further to support recruiting more troops. Even if you don't specifically focus economy in your settlements, the money will be decent enough as the settlements have decent sizes. Whenever you do have the military buildings you need in a settlement, you'll want farms first and foremost to use the hanging gardens bonus and increase pop growth. Then roads to move troops. And as you take settlements, your front becomes more focused and more and more settlements become safe from enemies sitting behind your newly conquered settlements. And of course once you own the entire middle east, you now have incredibly safe and rich territory, 6 out of the 7 wonders and you're starting to gain access to the high tier units in your fantastic roster to effectively fight the romans. So opposite of what Lugotorix says in the video - no slowly building up, your enemies are doing the same and building up doesnt solve any of your problems. Aggression out of the gate, hit everyone around you fast and hard, and you just start rolling like no other faction can in the area.
yo i just saw this on my feed and, without watching the video, I'm just gonna tell you the Seleucids are the best hands down. They get pikes, elephants, decent archers, good cav. Stupid fun, and a good starting location in Asia minor.
Once in my thracian campaign, a single unit militia hoplites beats an unit pharaonean guardians on hard;) After that, there are only five doods alive and standing still on the battlefield xD
Morale Temples are broken: the effect doesn't apply properly to units. Nobody's really sure why, but it might explain why you can't retrain units to give them extra morale like with weapons/armor/experience upgrades (which is strange in itself).
i really love the seleucids, one of the strongest faction in the game imo early game isn't to bad, you can easily defend a city with a few millitia hoplites if you put them in the corners of street blocking all the eastern cav once you get to the mid/late game just make giant pike wall en micro your chariots and cataphracts, even the romans are no match for it:)
Well problem is enemy infantry on VH/VH, all pikes will destroy your militia hoplites and general's bodyguard units will rip through your pike wall even if you overlay them
@@danielbalderrama4137 wel, yes and no, its important to put them behind a corner, it breaks the momentum of cav because they have to make a turn, most of the time it protects against ranged as wel because the building blocks most of it and sometimes you even get a flankingbonus because the ai dirps out:p by the the time other factions have decent inf, you have pikes as wel and the same tactic becomes even more effective:)
@@ragnarlothbrok5868 well yes and no again. I know the angle your talking about but again. A general bodyguard can walk into your pikes and still destroy entire units. Also it puts more pressure on holding the flank because if one line falls, the whole plab could collapse.
@@maxgrozema1093 that leaves you vulnerable against infantry. I tried that tactic in multiplayer, works if your infantry is superior to the enemy infantry but it would never work if your infantry was militia hoplites or levy pikemen. Even the eastern infantry can push through, they won't kill many but they don't need to, they only need to mess up your formation for the general bodyguard to slaughter your guys in sword to sword combat.
I started playing again a few weeks ago, thanks to your videos. About this video - in terms of general difficulty based on positions, you need to consider the plague in Macedonia that erupts and decimate you
The Greeks are far and away the best once you have some experience. You can be at 11 regions at the end of turn 2. It's like playing with three factions at once. Good video, btw.
My hot take: Thracian spear men are actually good because their long pikes are unique in that if you set up the formation just right they can compete with more expensive spearmen as they can have 1 more layer of pikes dealing damage. And also the unit size makes them harder to break up then Spartans (but I guess I concede that Spartans are technically better I just really like Thrace lol.)
No emphasis on the early game at all. Seleucids have a very weak early game army (Macedon has an amazing early game with light lancer spam) and need a large city to start churning out cataphracts and silver shields. Silver Legionaries require a Tier 5 barracks and have weaker morale than Roman legionary cohorts. Elephants can only be trained or retrained in a limited set of regions. Seleucids also take longer to start taking on the Romans due to starting farther away, so the Romans will be harder to deal with once they get there. Add their bad starting position with literally every settlement they have being under threat, and the Seleucids' on-paper superiority doesn't hold up to scrutiny in an actual campaign. My list: 1-Macedon. Very easy to play with its hammer-and-anvil style army. Hold with pikemen, use cavalry to flank, rinse and repeat. Great early game with levy pikemen and light lancers, later royal pikes and heavy cavalry (either type) with light lancer support. Very good temples, can get +3 to missile weapons to improve their archers, go for improved melee/extra experience or law to reduce corruption. Commanding starting position with a minor city ready to go from Turn 1 and reunifying Greece quickly gives them even more money and a solid recruitment base to take on the Romans. No big downside. 2-Greeks. Also very easy to play, just get the enemy into a tight space (corner camp, bridge, street, broken gate or wall section) and just batter them into submission with waves of phalanxes. Terrible cavalry, so the hoplites are going to be used as a sledgehammer instead of an anvil. Thankfully, armored hoplites are more than equal to the task. Bad archers but can easily get mercenary Cretan archers. Great temples. Rich but fragmented starting position but they are so good at defending sieges that it hardly matters. Easy access to Italy and great starting economy. 3-Seleucids. As outlined above. Temples are not great either, as they're lacking a law or trade income temple for settlements that are far away from the front. They do have a pop booster and forge temple though. All in all, very late game focused and has to be pretty much carried by scythed chariots early on, which is not every player's cup of tea. 4-Thrace. OK starting position but weaker economy than the other Hellenic factions. Same terrible cavalry as the Greeks, with the outstanding hoplites being replaced by weaker pikemen and barbarian shock infantry. Unfortunately falxmen are extremely vulnerable to missiles and Bastarnae are way overpriced, so their unit roster is especially weak in the early game as they lack the compensating factors that the other factions have (light lancers, hoplites and scythed chariots respectively). Lackluster late game. Temples are just OK but nothing amazing.
I once had a great campaign playing as Seleucids, once you overcome Pontus, Armenia and Egypt, which is challenging early-game, you have an incredibly strong position with massive cities, a strong economy, and excellent, varied units. If you beat your rivals and take over the Asian/ North African provinces you are in a prime position to sweep the board
How to fix the Selucids 1. Have a larger map to the East and South allowing the full scope of the Selucids Empire. You have the core highly developed regions in Mesopotamia and Syria whilst the regions out to east are mostly poorly developed. 2. Give the Selucids 2 to three medium sized armies made up mostly phalanx pikemen but they do have at least one unit of Silver Shield Pikemen and Companion Cavalry in each of their armies. Essentially you get limited amount of powerful high tier units in the early game but you must be careful with them because you will not be able to replace them until later. 3. Nerf Pontos and Armenia by making them single province Vassals. If you play as these factions you must be careful with your timing when you want to go independent. Declare too early they send one of their powerful armies and crush you. You generally want to play nice at first, keep the vassalage they have over you and nab what free rebel settlements in Anatolia and the Caucasus you can get and build up. Wait until you think the Selucids have been sufficiently worn down by the Ptolemaic Kingdom then you can take their provinces in Anatolia and Mesopotamia. 4. Replace Bronze Age Egypt with the Ptolemaic Kingdom a hybrid faction. The Ptolemaic Kingdom is Greek overlords ruling over Egyptian native population so for them they really need to balance Greek cultural advancements with appeasing their native subjects. Their best economical buildings and military units are greek but if they build them outside Alexandria the only Greek majority settlement in Egypt it will cause unrest with the Egyptian natives.
Seleucids are surrounded, but the general location on the map is very powerful If you can take on egypt, Parthia, Armenia, and Pontus and Greek Pergamum early and defend on all fronts eventually you wear the enemy down and focus on taking out the biggest threat in the region - Egypt. When Egypt are gone, your southern flank is then secured (as Numidia generally don’t come at you) and you can secure the rest of Asia Minor and Middle East. Once you have held on to and secure the entire Middle East, the economic advantage is like no other. Usually at this stage in the game the empire generates between 50,000 and 100,000 Denerai per turn. Big cities like Sidon, Damascus, Pergamum, Jerusalem, Memphis, Alexandria, Thebes, and Sinope, at this point can field some of the most powerful armies you can play with in the game AND you have the finances to do so. (Basically as soon as you defeat Egypt, Armenia, Pontus, and Parthia (and some Greece) you are a power house in the game ready for a fight with the Romans.) From this point I typically like to take Siwa from Numidia which usually wipes them out. Scipii will have defeated Carthage and the rest of Numidia and will now be looking at you. They will send their legions a very long way across the desert from Carthage and Thapsus to come at you. The advantage is that when they reach you around Siwa and you have a big battle, they have to wait for reinforcements all the way from that area again. Where as because you own Alexandria, Memphis and Thebes - e massive cities in close proximity, you can rapidly retrain and redeploy. It doesn’t take much of this before the Scippis large legions are all worn down to a few skeleton units. Now your full strength armies can walk through Africa taking the old Carthaginian and Numidian territories with ease. A handy tip is to send them on ships via Alexandria along the coast as it saves time. You can then easily take out Sicily, Caralis, and Palma and control the Mediterranean. Whilst this is going on I like to have 2 or 3 big armies launch simultaneous assaults into modern day Greece which is usually held by the Brutii. I send them from the ports at Pergamum, Nicomedia, and Halicarnassus. Halicarnassus strikes southern Greece, usually at Sparta or Athens. Pergamum puts an army at Larissa. Nicomedia puts their army at Byzantium. The Brutii armies are usually in the north fighting the dacians and the Scythians at this point so the cities are easy pickings. The southern army can secure Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Thermon and Apollonia with little opposition. The army at Larissa take on Thesalonica and hold any attack from the north. Byzantium will also hold fast where they are (maybe take Tylis if there is time before the Brutii armies engage. The key to this phase is to have many spear units in these armies so when the massive Brutii armies assault Byzantium and thessalonica, you can have spear units stationed in all of the road ways leading to the town square. Have some archers behind them and pretty soon the big Brutii forces will be being forced into your spears and having arrows reign down will be in full retreat. Send in the Calvary to mop up before they escape. Your army is already in a city so retraining is easy. Again doing this for a few turns and the Brutii legions are nothing. The northern empire section, I usually just hold the line at kotais, and the other 3 cities in its line. I don’t bother going into Scythian territory or northern Parthia because 1. It takes far to long to go up, take the cities and then go across the north and into Greece from the top (which also risks war with Germania and Dacia which is just unnecessary). Having the 4 cities in a line with a few units per garrison will be enough to deter any attacks, but usually no armies come from that direction. By this time my army has the Middle East, modern day turkey and Greece, and North Africa, plus all of the islands in the med. I don’t bother with Spain as again is unnecessary and there is a naturals sea border there. At this point I launch my armies from Sicily and from Greece to invade and take southern Italy and Capua in tandem. Also I will land armies to the north and take out Arminium and Arretium. Doing this it prevents any Julie counter attacks when you’re trying to take Rome. If any Julie armies do come from the northern Galic regions, you just do the same as you did to the Brutii at Byzantium and Thesalonica and hold them at the cities either spearman. The armies from the south then surround Rome in a glorious final siege and battle. (Hint - if you want a really easy last battle against the SPQR large army, then put one of your armies the other side of the river which is next to Rome from its army. It will then assault you accross the river and you just stick a bunch of spear units at the crossing with covering missile support and they get warn down pretty easy. Cavalry does the mop up and before you know it, the great power is now reduced to nothing. (You could take Rome earlier, but I like to savour them to the last city so that when I take the city, the campaign is won). Conclusion, provided you can get past the first 50 turns where you are assaulted by 5 factions on 4 fronts, Seleucids can become the wealthiest, strongest, and most enjoyable factions on the game.
This may not work on a harder difficulty, but the Greek Cities have potentially the best starting position if you can hold all of your territory. I blitzkrieg'd the Scipii before any of the three armies could unite and started building up an army in Messana and a navy in Syracuse to sink any approaching army on transports. This had the effect of confusing the AI to the point all three Romans tried to fight me in Sicily which slowed down the Brutii advance in Greece. In the end I could just blockade Capua and eventually caught the Brutii in a pincer.
Seleucids truly are the strongest. Their roster is top tier. Yes, they have a hard start, and the AI will always loose, put if a player picks them up, they can quite easy dominate even roman armys. On the other hand....Greek Cities...armourd hoplites are just so visually pleasing...probably the best looking unit in the Game....
Fully agree on Seleucids, depending on how you look at it however the tough starting position can be a pro if you want a challenge. But my main problem is that as a player you never get to fight against a late game Seleucid Empire. They never live that long. The solution to that would have been more enemies for Egypt, Egypt's early roster and position is too good. If Numidia had a second settlement on the Egyptian's side with the cities close by, and maybe another minor settlement in the lower right corner of the map closer to Egypt than to the Seleucids, that could have fixed the balance in that area.
Willem Verheij started a campaigned as Macedon recently, and the Seleucids are doing surprisingly well. Not only have they not lost any of their initial territories, but even got some from Egypt. I'm now about 50 turns into the game. It may have happened because Pontus decided to attack me after I took Byzantium. And then Armenia decided to make a move on weakened Pontus so both countries were to busy to bother with the Seleucids.
From my experience with greek city, their start are actually the best of the game but also very tricky. You get acces to very powerfull wonders. Scipii will ALWAYS attack Syracuse in the first 4-10 turn because its the first senate mission they have. And since it's a minor city loosing it will hurt. But if you can reppel the first attack you won't be in any trouble in this part of the greece, with only 2 city and a sea between you the Scipii will be stuck. (which I can do because I recruit all mercenary in Sicily, otherwise you are stuck with a poor garnison and no real recruitment. The city got stone walls) Hard to take their city because they are always a lot. Turky will be at peace for a lot lot more turn, because Ponti will fight the Seleucid who will fight everyone else. The real main challenge of the greek is to take Corinth AND Athenes before Brutii and Macedonian launch the war. Because you will have to face the two, you got only one army in greece and you really need those +4 units per turn. The economy will be so high so quickly you will have no trouble at all after the 30 first turn
Here's a fun fact for you, Cataphracts have maces as their secondary weapon, meaning they are AP once their charge runs out. That means they will tear any other cavalry to shreds if they get into a fight with it, not even Praetorian cavalry can stop them. Your only hope is to use their slower speed to circle-charge them, but even that won't work if seleucids bring a mix of cataphracts and companions. Egypt can beat them, but not in one on one fight, Desert cav is just that dirt cheap compared to cataphracts and also AP, and second highest archer attack in the game also helps. Rome can beat them with legion AP missiles, but seleucids have Silver legion testudo to solve that problem, and even Urban cohorts will melt to front pin with Silver pikemen and rear charge and subsequent AP mace by cataphracts. The real problem is affording them, because that elite force won't come cheap. But you do start with two wonders, and will most likely have most of them before even seeing a roman eagle, so...
"The Seleucids don't have access to them [wonders of the world]." You do realise that they start in possession of one wonder (Hanging Gardens), and are right next to two more (Mausoleum at Halicarnassus and Colossus of Rhodes), right? And that if they expand towards Egypt (which any Seleucid player is probably going to have to do to survive), they're going to take two more?
Selucid empire getting Halicarnassus on turn 2. I known its normally not needed, as your normally built up by then. But faster construction early game is nice
Its weird, I remember watching your video's alot in the past, and when I stopped seeing your video's. I just assumed you were busy, turns out I was unsubscribed. Evern though I know I never did, so thanks CZcams. Only reason I re-found you was because I was just browsing total war games and saw your name. Instantly my memory began running with familiarity
Pikemen with bastarnae and/or falxmen on the flanks is a rather powerful combo though. If you meet stronger phalanxes, lock them with your pikemen, and then run around and flank them with your other infantry who would then just butcher them.
Greek cities cannnot be lower than second, and I would be tough to convince that they aren’t number 1. Spartan Hoplites are arguably the best unit in the game. I like them better than Urban Cohort, but to each their own. Armored Hoplites are acquirable early and will hold a line for awhile for hammer and anvil. Don’t forget, the peltasts can be used as a hammer after throwing their javelins.
Seleucid are my favorits faction. Strong phalanx, very good cav and elephant . hephaistus's temple can give gold weapons and armor in late game. Yes, the land is very large, but you can protect cities with 5-6 phalanx units and begins expansion against egypt (who are the most dangerous neigboors factions) an you are OK.
I feel like a good way to summarize the Seleucid campaign is: Starts off challenging requiring better strategy, planning, and patience. Late Campaign one of the Easiest factions to expand with.
Do you know any work around to get Rome to work on windows 10? I have the disk copy of the vanilla and barbarian, I don’t have the original key for it (not even sure it came with one) any ideas? Online just directs me to use steam but it doesn’t seem to work for me. I get the admin error where you need to start with admin but just won’t work
the selucids are super flexible in terms of their army. the best cav with cataphracts, which are better than companions in pure combat power, second best pikemen (below royal pikemen), excellent melee infantry with legionaries, special units like chariots and elephants. their only lacking category is archers (like all greek factions), which they can supplement with cretan archers. they even got great early game missile cav (like most greek factions), which is great for flanking shots and chasing fleeing enemies. for horse archers they can get mercenaries later. the only real advantage macedon has over them is slightly better pikemen...everything else is the same or better with the selucids, with the legionaries, better cav and special units.
Leginoariez go well with phalangites , legionainres stay forward loose formation skirimish and run back and leave the fighting to pikes cataphratcs will dominate the flanks , they dont have a lot of weakness other than lacking good archers but they can get that too in form of createn archers
I'm going to have to be a contrarian in terms of the starting position rankings. In terms of armies I 100% agree with you, do note however that the Seleucid's Silver Shield Pikemen are worst than the Macedonian Royal Pikemen but having the Silver Shield Legionnaires, Cataphracts, Scythed Chariots and Elephants more than make up for that. In terms of starting positions however I completely disagree with you, my list is nearly a mirror image of yours. In my view the Seleucids actually have the best starting position than the Greeks than the Macedonians and lastly the Thracians. Do note that I rank this not just in terms of difficulty but also in terms of expansion(growth) potential. The Thracian starting position may be relatively secure but their lands are relatively poor and unless you expand into more poor territories(Scythia, Dacia and Germanic rebels) than this territory is going to be pretty hard to take and even harder to hold. I mean yeah Constantinople is pretty amazing to take early on and is nearly free, and Nicea is an easy follow up, but after those 2 what do you do? Going into Greece is tough as Macedon is pretty powerful early on and even if you are successful the Brutii are just around the corner and the weaker you make the Macedonians the stronger the Brutii are going to be(due to losing less troops in their war against Macedon). It's for this same reason that I rank Macedon and the Greek cities as 2 and 3 respectively. The reason I rank the Greek Cities above Macedon is simple, their best unit: Armored Hoplite, comes online much faster, all it requires is a Minor City and you basically have your best unit(Spartan Hoplites can only be recruited in Sparta and take 2 turns and much more tech to recruit so they're never going to be the core of your armies). Macedon on the other hand gets the decent but far from amazing Phalanx Pikemen, which while perfectly serviceable are simply no match for Armored Hoplites. Both of them have the same problem however, they have to kill each other ASAP and than brace for impact against the Brutii, and if successfully holding them back than probably the other 2 Roman factions as well. Which brings us to my most controversial opinion that the Seleucid starting position is actually the best of all the Hellenic factions. Yes on paper it's a very tough starting position and certainly not recommended for new players, though none of the Hellenic factions are so it's a bit of a moot point. The thing is that while the Seleucids are going to be fighting 4-5 wars right from the get-go, these wars are against vastly inferior opponents than what the other factions face early on. All you really need is a 4-5 units of Pikemen(even the crappy militia hoplites or levy pikemen) garrison in every border town to successfully defend it against whatever the AI will throw at you early on. Whether you're doing the classic V shape right behind the gate or just camping the town center, the AI will most likely assault your settlements and than lose a whole lot of troops before finally retreating and losing the battle. Thus you can focus on 1 front at a time with your real army and just leave token garrisons everywhere else and slowly but surely whittle down the AI until you completely secure Asia Minor before heading down towards Egypt(unlike your own guide on the Seleucids I find there's no reason at all to rush Egypt as your late game roster is vastly superior to theirs, as will your economy if you secure all of Asia Minor first). Moreover Asia Minor is an incredibly rich province in its own right, almost as good as Greece, with both plenty of trade resources and Mediterranean ports to trade these resources from. Oh and you start with the Hanging Gardens of Babylon which is arguably the best early game wonder, and have very easy access to both Halicarnasus for its Mausoleum and Rhodes for its Colossus.
I have no idea why, but I gotta say for some reason I am really enjoying watching videos about a game I KNOW I will never play ever again. (Especially without a mod like EB)
2 years too late but there is a significant difference between light and heavy weapons that separates the pikes from the spears. Levy Pikemen for wooden wall defense are the most cost effective unit. Macedon Light lances while have little armour are equipped with heavy weapons which can smash non-spear infantry on the charge.
If you take campaign position into consideration, then Macedon beats Seleucia. But if you only consider unit roster, the Seleucids are easily the best Hellenic faction. Also, you severely underrate the Militia Hoplite. Yes, they suck, but they suck much less than most other units at the same tier. From the tier 1 barracks you get stuff like Town Watch and (IIRC) Eastern Infantry. Those units are hot garbage. Town Watch will do a job if properly supported. Not as good as Barbarian factions, especially Germania, but in the rest of the world Militia Hoplites are the king of tier 1 infantry.
I do a lot of Seleucid migration campaigns. England was the most fun! By turn 10 you can have a full stack, all family members, 8 ships in Greece and just abandon your cities in the east and take Athens and then retake all of Greece to make the game easier.
They should've cut Militia Hoplites from the Macedonian and Seleucid rosters, bumped Levy Pikemen down to Tier 1, and given them a fourth more "average" pike unit above Levy Pikemen in the Tier 2 slot. Probably call that unit Pikemen and rename the current Pikemen to something like Veteran Pikemen (or Phalangites if they're feeling a bit more historical).
The Seleucids are the best, and I won't have a word said against them. Go blitzkrieg against Pontus and Egypt really early, otherwise you are dead. After that, Parthia and Armenia are no worries as long as you are smart and have good tech. Once you get the Seleucid late-game armies, it is only really Rome that will cause you a problem.
Agree on most points. However Greeks have a better position. Collosus is a huge factor, and statue of Zeus is fairly easy to take. Macedons get the plague however.
Tough choice between Macedon and Seleucids, the latter have the better unit roster but Macedon has an excellent starting location and can quickly and easily grow its possessions to the point where it is a superpower by turn 20. With Seleucids you must actually be aggressive from the off and try to neutralize Parthia, while fighting off Egypt. Even in Anatolia you can do a lot with just half a stack with the right mercenaries.
Common themes with Greek factions: Militia Hoplites are garbage, but they are better than Levi Pikemen, Militia Cavalry and Greek Cavalry are the two weakest cavalry units in the game. Greek Cavalry can do some light cavalry business, but don't expect them to win against any other light cavalry. Selucids: By Ares, your early army is shit. Early on, you will have Militia Hoplites, Peltasts, and Militia Cavalry. But also, if you play your cards right, you can get access to Chariots. Chariots are anti-cavalry, and you should use them this way. Just not against Egypt - their chariots are better. On top of that, the infantry ranks of your northern opponents will feature Hillmen and Eastern Infantry. Your Militia Hoplites are enough to deal with those. Dealing with Egypt will be the hardest challenge in the campaign. Thrace: You are going to rush Macedon, just like Dacia. Just like Dacia, use Falxmen. After Macedon, you'll want to deal with Greeks (exactly the same way as you deal with Macedon), and Romans. Romans can be annoying, but their pre-Marian infantry loses to Falxmen hard. The hard part is having the worst cavalry in the game. Greeks: Shares the worst cavalry in the game with Thrace. Also, has four factions going for their four cities. Defend them, you are good at it. In fact, defense is the only thing you're good at, so do use it when you need it. After you'll deal with initial punches, get your ball rolling everywhere, except for Thermon. Macedon: Gets access to Phalanx Pikemen very early on. Add to that, Light Lances are basically anti-Greek and anti-pre-marian-Roman charge cavalry. There isn't much of a plan here - get the Greece, deal with Romans, and very little will be able to touch you.
Levy Pikes are way better than militia hoplites. The extra reach and extra men are massive bonuses. The only thing militia hoplites have going for them is they take hits from arrows better. Don't let your levy pikes get shot, and they will slaughter anything that gets in front of them, except for higher-tier phalanxes and sometimes enemy bodyguards.
I think the Hellenic factions should get Thureophoroi and Thorakitai highly flexible infantry that can do many roles though their main weakness is that they are not as good as specialised units in any particular role. Essentially they are spear armed versions of Roman infantry
I agree with your army ranking, but I don’t really agree with the campaign map one. I found the Greek Cities much more difficult than the Seleucids. I took over all of Turkey and weathered the Armenian and Egyptian storms until I got that famous powerful army going. Then I completely swept through them.
Should have put Seleucids above Greece. Per the analysis, they're somewhat Greece but with harder start, with way more options in terms of their units, which seems to me to be strictly better than Greece as long as you can get going. I also think faction ranking should not so thoroughly be decided by start difficulty. So maybe: Thrace - Greece - Seleucid - Macedon.
As a kid I remember being super pissed that I couldn’t play as the blue snake people.
All you need is to change some writing in the code.
Aleksander Sokal yes, 8 year old me with dialup internet living on a farm was about to figure that out.
@@FumblsTheSniper fair point
I remember that as well and now I’m sitting here like bro these guys are friggin trash
@@Corbynmorris9 Falxmen in front lines and on the flanks with your generals milia hoplites can also make the front line with phalange behind the militia hoplites and falxmen on either flank again with the generals. Thrace is a beast if used correctly. Left to right three lines deep/ Line 1 general-falxmen-falxmen-falxmen-general
Line 2 militia hoplites (stretch them three men deep)
Line 3 phalanges five men deep ( place line 3 directly behind line 2 so that the front men of line three are touching the rear men of line 2 like its one unit)
In this formation you have a front line/flanks of very excelent shock troops (General Cavalry, falxmen, peltasts) this force is highly mobile and does not tire easy. Perfect to wait till the enemy is upon you then like a trap you spring your front line into attack half targeting the left flank and half targeting the right. Envelop the flanks and push through behind them. Now you have your Cavalry/falxmen behind their line free to cycle charge and reign chaos. The enemy at this point is to close to lines 2-3 that they cannot afford to make line 1 a priority forcing them to try to push to line 2-3 while fleaing/skirmishing line 1 as much as they can further taking pressure of your formation and placing it on the enemy like a vise. The secret weapon to this is lines 2-3. If placed like I instructed upon contact with lines 2-3 the enemy will find themselves pined agaisnt a wall of 8 spear heads between them and the actual men in lines 2-3. They will be broken upon contact almost instantly if not before they even reach ypur spears then you mop it up.
Selucids even tho they can have a rough start. Elephants. Chariots. Cavalry. Heavy infantry. Phalanx units. Literally theyve got one of the most well rounded rosters in the game.
yeah they only fall short to the Macedonian royal pikemen no other greek faction can hold a candle to them
I once had a Seleucid army composed entirely of cataphracts and scythed chariots, just for the hell of it. I encountered a full Brutii legion in Greece, and it placed my army at the top of a mountain with the Romans at the bottom. Needless to say, there weren't many green uniforms left running around at the end.
@@Scorpion88888 mowing those greens must be fun
they have everything...
but they cant have the BEST legionaries or the BEST pikemen...
still, they are so flexible and have good quality of everything.
their hoplites can hold gates and bridges pretty well early on, with militia cav providing fire support, ideally to the flanks, and also perfect for killing enemies who run away.
@@Scorpion88888
i found the best use of chariots or elephants, is to charge them into infantry, keep going through the other side, and then when the broken and scattered troops are all over the place, standing up and turn around...they get hit by your cav (ideally general or heavy cav) in their now exposed rear.
scattered broken units facing away...are the easiest target for cav.
then i send my militia cav to kill the survivors who run...and there is no way they wont run...
also chariots are insanely deadly vs cav, especially if u charge through them and keep going.
any cav touching their wheels is dead.
“Greek states are the most spread out faction”
Carthage: 👁👄👁
See i was thinking the same, all though most of their settlements are near cartage in early game, except hispania.
Numidia and Parthia 0_o
Corduba always be like 50% distance penalty imma rebel no matter how much you try to tame me
what about Scythia? its all together but god is it long
@@zacariahanderson corduba is such a pain the ass lmao
still good to find quality content of rome
total war
Thank you, yes it's a really great game
@@lugotorix6173 it is I swear i wish i had friends who played this
I love the recruitment system and the general traits system. I never felt attached to my generals and units in Rome 2. The economy with inter-settlement trade feels good too. There is asymmetry, some settlements are worth a lot, others are crap. It gives them personality and more strategic choice instead of Rome 2 where as long as you have one full province you are always good.
Agreed in all aspects, I know the Seleucids are a little bit of a meme among players but if you're good enough to survive those first 15-20 turns, I think they're straight up the strongest army in the game (and yeah not great archers but you start close to Cretan archer territory). In 15 years of playing this game I have never seen Thrace take more than like 4 settlements before they're destroyed lol. Great content glad I found your channel, keep em coming!
Thank you!! Yeah Seleucids have many jokes about them but actually their roster is surprisingly good, shame about the super difficult starting position though
The Seleucids have absolutely no jokes or memes about their unit roster, nobody makes fun of that. Their wretched starting position is literally their only weakness. It's nearly impossible for a faction that starts set up for war on 4 fronts to live long enough to even gear up for war, much less build up to be a high tech powerhouse.
@@lugotorix6173 you forgot that Macedon unlocks the light lancers first and then with a stable upgrade unlock the greek cavalry so you can actually recruit light lancers on the first turn
I once was just half of Greece was captured by the Thracians.
@@richardkenan2891 I don't destroy Parthia,I try to be friends with Armenians or Pontus, preferably with Armenians.I go to Egypt from the defense, when there are not enough troops from it, I capture and again hold the defense.If you remove Egypt, the rest of the pests are easy to soak.Greek cities are also trying to oust,their ear plus they need everything exactly
I am getting high nostalgia and happiness feelings from these type of videos. Thank you
That's great I'm glad you enjoyed!
So true, even though the game is some 16 yrs. old and quite simplistic, it is still the shit.
Chelsblue73 For the standards of 2004. The game is actually pretty in depth.
@@yniekac8851 it looked awesome at that time and probably was :) but time doesn't stand still, new games are being launched all the time...
I'm just getting high
Tip on surviving the start as Seleucids: poor morale doesn't matter if you camp your town square in the defence. A few militia hoplites can do wonders when they have nowhere to run.
Then enemy sends an elephant or chariot and your militia immediately routs
They can't rout if they're already standing in the town square. That's the point. They'll just keep "wavering" while they continue fighting till the last man.
@@hannibalburgers477if you have archers, the elephant is more of a danger for the enemy
Seleucids were always my favorite faction to play. Such a strong arsenal of units that will counter any challenge you face with brutal effectiveness. It was also really fun to run three stacks of scythed chariots through legions and watch them instantly break.
Their starting situation is definitely one of the hardest in the game, but once you get blacksmiths everywhere it is pretty much downhill.
...blacksmiths and excellent, cheap temples;)
The seleucid earlygame rooster is overpowerd too and super underratet by many players
In my opinion, the militia hoplites are so much better than every other militia unit and whit chariots, they make a good job to save the cretean archers;)
and with elephants and a lot of denarii... the entire east is yours in 10 - 20 years
The "seleucids, which are probably the hardest faction to play in the entire game"
10 year old me winning rome for the only time "hahahaha. Phalanx go brrrrr"
I agree with you. For me Carthage was harder. Seleucids can hold firm in their cities since the AI isn't very clever and they intend to get through a Militia Hoplites wall using light cavalry (Armenia, Parthia).
@@alejandrop.s.3942 dumb AI is the bane of any decent total war player. It can totally ruin the fun for you.
Its among the many reasons why I hold any game before Empire at the bottom of my tier list.
But one issue every game seems to have, is the enemy General Leeroy Jenkins-ing right into your spear line lol
@@alexanderrahl7034 In Rome II it's the other way round. The enemy general tends to be so far away from the action that sometimes he's utterly useless since he doesn't provide any support for his troops. For instance, I remember playing a battle as Macedon vs Epirus, where the enemy general (Hellenic Royal Guard, which would have melt my Levy Pikemen) was at the opposite side of the Battlefield doing random stuff...
For me it's also very frustrating the bugs, pathfinding and non-senses mechanics.
This channel feels like the modern version of the old forum guides on factions and units haha
cozy vibes
Seleucids are my favorite faction. After you get past the initial challenge, they become one of the strongest factions. They have one of the most diverse and and strongest armies in the game. Their region is economically rich.
That is if you survive attacks from all sides.
@@allshipper2158 I haven't found it too difficult, plus if it is, you can always migrate your faction somewhere else and give up some of your cities (and then rebuild from there)
In my house, no one talks shit about the Seleicids's unit roster.
You have to play as the Seleucids for the challenge and their amazing unit roster (the best roster of the hellenics in my opinion)
Also, congrats on over 8k subs, not too long ago you were at 3k, so you made epic progress :)
The Selucids definitely are the best because of their powerful cavalry, elephants that destroy as well as their mobile legionnaires that can turn a flank when needed or hold the front line, the only weakness they have is their archers but even that isn't much of a weakness because their cheap.
Seleucids are the textbook "lethal joke character". You'll be spanked for ages, but if you can survive into late tech, oh my...
@@allewis4008 well with selucids, the strategy is to gove up hatra amd Damascus so therefore you only have 2 cities to defend. Then get as many agreements as possible and expand into Egypt with the denarii you have, you should have teched up to levy pikemen by that point which will destroy early game Egypt
Thank you for the support man, yeah the growth has been amazing recently. Best of luck with your channel as well!!
Most people: Seleucid for heavy cavalry, elephants and even pikemen
Me: SPARTAN SPARTAN SPARTAN
armored hoplites are available very early, also very good income; that is why Greece takes the cake
Boring to play tho, by the time you get spartans you already won
Armored Hoplites OP, pls nerf.
One thing people often forget is that Armoured Hoplites only take 1 turn to create, whereas a lot of the elite units take 2 turns. 2 units of Armoured hoplites can beat 1 unit of Spartans/Royals/Silver Shields etc, and ofc you can also create them at minor city level.
They are one of the best units in the game and the only infantry unit they might struggle against is the standard Phalanx Pikemen with their longer pikes.
They have very strong infantry, possibly even stronger than Rome, especially when adding Spartans (and Syracusans) to the mix. But their cavalry is very weak and they are really a one-trick horse (pun intended). If you encounter the Scythians or Parthians, you will take heavy losses. Not to say it can't be done; I did a WC on VH/VH as the Greek Cities. But it was quite a challenge.
@@butifarras That's like playing Rome for the Urban Cohorts.
Nothing like holding a full stack with militia hoplites at the gates
The seleucids are my favorite faction so easy one for me. They start with 2 wonders too btw.
Yeah the beginning is hard, but i actually Think pikes are OP. As soon as you get them (2 grade Baracks i believe) you can basically hold any settlement with only 4-5 pikesunits. At legendary diff, focus on defendig/attacking rebels until you get elephants to launch counterattacks.
Let infantry engage with your pikes, use 2-4 Units of cavalry to harass archers and elephants to attack infantry from behind. (When Enemy has better cav, try to Shield your own cav with elephants)
As a sidenote, maybe you should also have included Buildings/ esp Tempels to go along with your review?
I enjoyed it anyways though. Nice nostalgia, Keep it up
Temples don't make much of a difference because their relatively the same and are usually only good for public order.
@@danielbalderrama4137 Its true, they dont, but they are the most faction unique buildings (look at Romans), a Temple of Artemis can make Bad archers to decent archers for example. And to be honest, i Never played makedon so i didnt know what their Tempels are like. Also what can make a big difference if you cant Build the highest tier of Ports for example. A Brief look wouldve been nice imo
@@Lachgummei yes it does provide the unique units but not exactly game changing unless your playing gaul, Germania or carthage.
build blacksmiths everywhere and spam scythed chariots to escort family member to patrol the empire
@@tobivsmaximvs7401 there are a hundred reasons why that won't work
Selucids for the difficulty of the game, Macedonia for the long pikes, Greece for role-playing and Thrace for being the redheaded stepchild
What does redheaded stepchild mean?
@@g.d5731 the black sheep of the family; the outcast
The long pikes are seriously underrated by most. Proper terrain use or corner camping makes them utterly unbeatable.
Glad to hear you again! For me Seleucids are the best for their diversity and challenging difficulty.
Under player control, Seleucid. The endgame units are OP.
With mercanaries and temples, the early game units too;)
I would correct to "under *competent* player control" I tried Seleucid and got absolutely stomped :P
Macedon was fun though, and managed to defeat the Romans
@@Nutty31313 Any idiot can dominate with a phalanx based army. Make a square and put missile troops in the center. For defending towns, do that in the city square. You won't lose unless they have oangers throwing fire, which I've never seen the AI do.
@@theindooroutdoorsman Thanks for calling me an idiot for not thinking of a strategy that would literally make the game extremely boring. It may be the way to get victory, but I prefer to have fun over get easy wins. If I can do both, great, otherwise I will prioritise fun.
@@Nutty31313 If you like agressive playstyle, try it again :) !
The Empire is the secret King of Blitzkrieg and you don't need the "Phalanx Turtle Tactic"
You need:
1. Money Money Money, be the richest faction in the earlygame
2. Buy Harlikanassos & mind the wonders
3. Buy Mercenaries!!!
and have a focus on Chariots & Elephants to Support your Militia Troops
4.Allies, as much as possible (even Pontus & Aegypt)
5. The "Schlieffen-Plan"
Defeat Pontus first & conquer the entire West (Anatolia) as early as possible
Conquer Salamis & Sidon as early as possible to nerf aegypt
6. Attack is the best Defense
Full Armies in your Homeland waste money & time
Attack your enemies on the most vulnerable cities
Great video mate, always a must watch when you post👍🏻
Thank you!!
I used to fall asleep playing this game into the night, with the music and ambience burrowing deep into my subconscious. This game is eternal nostalgia for me.
i think you forgot a factor: the plague in thessalonica. a minor disadvantage in terms of taxes and public order while activ
Best Hellenic faction when controlled by AI: Macedon. Best Hellenic faction when controlled by player: Seleucids
Yeah, Macedon has a stronger starting position. Seleucids require you to go full Blitz in order to even survive, but if you do survive, you will have a ton of good territory, and a great roster to tech into. And you are farther from the Romans, so you can choose how to engage them. Whereas Macedon should just ally Thrace, Kick the Greeks out of Greece, and then you're on a timer to finish Rome.
I think macedon is pretty good when controlled by the player as well. They get their good cavalry relatively early in the game, and their archers are pretty solid as well.
Great stuff, keep up the content Lugo!
Thank you so much!
I actually agree with the rankings, except the final rankings. Thrace last, definitely.
I'm pretty sure Macedon gets Light Lancers before they get Greek Cavalry, and you can definitely be aggressive with pikes.
I started a Macedon campaign a while ago on hard/VH difficulty. Took Thermon and Sparta fairly quickly off the Greeks, and was quite surprised when I sacked the Brutii out of Apollonia, and succesfully took their capital as well. So that you ranked Macedonia as the best hellenic faction isn't that surprising from what I've experienced. Way better early in the game than the Greeks or Seleucids. Great content you continue to put out, keep it up Lugo!
I found that blitzkrieging Italy as Macedon was frighteningly easy. But a super fun campaign!
Also I just noticed this is a 3 year old video and comment. Why did I just get it recommended?!
thanks for the video, was really fascinating! also i wonder if there'd be any seleucid's campaign walkthrough? looking forward to watch how you deal with them!
No campaign yet, but I have made a faction guide on them long ago talking about the faction
Pontus is interesting, they are a mix of Hellenic culture and Eastern Eastern culture, but the game considered them as eastern
Sadly Pontus have inferior pikes. 80 men per unit rather than 120.
Scythe Chariots are good if used right tho.
I love the seleucids, but with Thrace, if you can capture Byzantium at the start, make ports at all three cities, form alliances, gain enough trade rights, and harvest the natural resources like the metals, you can become self sufficient, and support large armies. With hoplites and phalanxes, alongside falxmen, you have some of the best of both worlds. Hoplite phalanxes, and barbarian shock troops make for a terrifying combination.
Honestly I thought you were just gonna say “seleucids” and then the outro would play
I recently took down a city with an assassin. Dacia were in the middle of troop movements with their war with Macedon and I was playing as Thrace. They left their capital which neighboured me, with just 1 unit of their faction leaders general body guard. My well trained assassin killed him and his body guard unit subsequently dissipated. I was then able to simply walk through the gates with 1 unit and take the city
I'm going to do a seleucid playthrough now
hey I know that you aren´t doing campaigns any more but it could be cool if you did a Seleucid lets play I think that would be cool
IMO the Selucid Empire has the best roster in the entire game, Elite Pikemen, Legionaries, Cataphracts, Chariots, Elephants...
They have the best units of every other faction, the only thing they're missing is Horse Archers.
Their missile department is very weak. The best they get is archers which are mediocre at best.
They certainly have a very diverse roster, and is underestimated by many imo
yeah, like if you ever tech up for that.
I honestly think thrace is pretty good if used right, I once destroyed a 600 strong Macedonian army with my 200 strong army, hold a position with phalanx pikemen and flank the enemy with Falxmen, their levy pikemen got slaughtered on mass. Anyways, great video!
The main problem I've found with the Seleucids is that the major reason to play them is their late game roster. By the time I'm teched up enough to use any of those units, it's essentially me against the Roman world, and once I take Rome the game ends. So 90% of the game I'm using militia rubbish. The advanced units also generally take two turns to train, so using all these cool, flashy units takes forever. The Greeks don't have this problem, even if their cavalry is poor.
When you win the campaign you are asked if you want to continue. The assumption is that if you have half the territories (nearly) with all the best ones then total domination is nearly certain and only an idiot could fail to win this game fromthat position.
I always found the Hellenic factions a little slow for my taste, but looking forward to giving them another try sometime.
My fave faction Thrace getting destroyed in comments.
Sad Falx noises :(
But the 2 hit points on the strong infantry make them my fave.
Stupid faction, it is better to put the mods up to level 5 so that the barbarians have settlements of level 5, this faction will be taken out.
they do not have roads or any civilized buildings. Still 2hp charging on the side of hoplites or in the backs wins every time.
@@maxmagnus777 Yes they do. If I remember right I don't think Macedon can make paved roads, but the Thracians can and asside from the top military buildings (stables, barraks, ranges), their buildings go all the way to level 5. Also it isn't as useful in the campaign as it is in custom battles, but their armored general is Barbarian so it's better than the other Greek faction's armored generals despite not having heavy cav.
Hi lugotorix you are my favourite you tuber I love watching your videos keep it going
Thank you so much, plenty more to come!
Love this list! As far as what I like to choose to do in campaigns Seleucids and Macedon are probably top 2 of the Hellenic factions. Also even though the Seleucids have a challenging start I found one of the easiest strats to prioritize your eastern territory and build around there and be more willing to take losses to the west if needed, then once you’ve grown your settlements and improved your recruitment capabilities you can start really crushing bigger factions.
My strat was always to focus on one faction that is attacking me and the rest of the fronts I just have 4/5 militia Hoplites in the cities and hold on for dear life.
I had a game playing as the Brutii where I decided to ally with the Seleucids and then took the three main Egyptian cities by dropping a full stack in via boat, rendering them bankrupt. Seleucids proceeded to wipe out Armenia, Parthia, Pontus, the Greek Cities and then steamrolled through most of the Scythian territory too. Beating them when they finally turned felt borderline impossible at times
I was scared to play the Seleucids, but boy their starting position isn't nearly as difficult as people make it out to be. You just need to be aggressive and have a clear plan.
The first thing to note is that they have an amazing economy. You'll be making a lot of money from the start and you have the hanging gardens to make farms very profitable.
Secondly, and this may sound cheesy, but being spread out and having many enemies means you can just attack in all directions.
And that is what you should be doing from turn one. Build basic barracks wherever you dont have em, then build walls wherever you dont have em, and upgrade the barracks in antioch to gain access to phalanx pikemen at turn 5. Basic stables give milita cav which is actually pretty good at the start to serve both a skirmish and light cav role running down fleeing units or making them flee with a rear charge when they're engaged in combat. Not great against other cav, but very useful vs the first tiers of infantry you'll be facing at the start.
You rush Seleucia to Susa to clear that eastern front. With mercs you win. Sardis moves up to Pergamum to kick out the greek cities from the mainland. Rhodes will still be there, but you'll deal with that later. Antioch and Damascus move down to Sidon and then Jerusalem. Hatra and Tarsus just build up militia hoplites to defend against inevitable Armenian and Pontic aggression. And those are really the only places you need to defend, the rest is offense. Ignore the rebel settlements, the nearby factions are the threat you want to start dismantling asap. From Susa you move north towards Arsakia, with reinforcements from Seleucia. After taking Arsakia you turn on the Armenians from the east. After Pergamum you deny Nicomedia and/or Ankara from Pontus and lay into them. By the time you declare, Tarsus will have enough troops to hold and your western asia minor settlements are shielded by your army coming in. The egyptian front just keeps rolling up cities, making sure no egyptian army escapes into the desert and surprises you with a stack of nubian spearmen after a bunch of turns. The now pontic and armenian fronts support each other and pretty quick antioch can switch from sending troops south to sending troops north.
Since your starting economy is so strong, you can start pumping out units from the start. Since you're aggressive, you'll be taking quite a few settlements which bolster your economy further to support recruiting more troops. Even if you don't specifically focus economy in your settlements, the money will be decent enough as the settlements have decent sizes. Whenever you do have the military buildings you need in a settlement, you'll want farms first and foremost to use the hanging gardens bonus and increase pop growth. Then roads to move troops. And as you take settlements, your front becomes more focused and more and more settlements become safe from enemies sitting behind your newly conquered settlements.
And of course once you own the entire middle east, you now have incredibly safe and rich territory, 6 out of the 7 wonders and you're starting to gain access to the high tier units in your fantastic roster to effectively fight the romans.
So opposite of what Lugotorix says in the video - no slowly building up, your enemies are doing the same and building up doesnt solve any of your problems. Aggression out of the gate, hit everyone around you fast and hard, and you just start rolling like no other faction can in the area.
yo i just saw this on my feed and, without watching the video, I'm just gonna tell you the Seleucids are the best hands down. They get pikes, elephants, decent archers, good cav. Stupid fun, and a good starting location in Asia minor.
it is fairly easy to get all but the statue of zeus as the selucids if you survive the dogpiling in the beginning
Nothing feels better than binging a backlog of 3 years of videos, and then seeing another new one pop up within a week
Keep up the good work mate!
Thrace is the weakest
Temple of ares giving you up to +4 Morale bonus: Am I a joke to you?
Once in my thracian campaign, a single unit militia hoplites beats an unit pharaonean guardians on hard;)
After that, there are only five doods alive and standing still on the battlefield xD
How does +4 morale compare with +3 experience?
@@boshengjones1778 morale is the most important thing of all
Morale Temples are broken: the effect doesn't apply properly to units. Nobody's really sure why, but it might explain why you can't retrain units to give them extra morale like with weapons/armor/experience upgrades (which is strange in itself).
i really love the seleucids, one of the strongest faction in the game imo
early game isn't to bad, you can easily defend a city with a few millitia hoplites if you put them in the corners of street blocking all the eastern cav
once you get to the mid/late game just make giant pike wall en micro your chariots and cataphracts, even the romans are no match for it:)
Well problem is enemy infantry on VH/VH, all pikes will destroy your militia hoplites and general's bodyguard units will rip through your pike wall even if you overlay them
@@danielbalderrama4137 wel, yes and no, its important to put them behind a corner, it breaks the momentum of cav because they have to make a turn, most of the time it protects against ranged as wel because the building blocks most of it and sometimes you even get a flankingbonus because the ai dirps out:p
by the the time other factions have decent inf, you have pikes as wel and the same tactic becomes even more effective:)
@@ragnarlothbrok5868 well yes and no again. I know the angle your talking about but again. A general bodyguard can walk into your pikes and still destroy entire units. Also it puts more pressure on holding the flank because if one line falls, the whole plab could collapse.
@@danielbalderrama4137 just turtle in the town square in the corner against buildings
@@maxgrozema1093 that leaves you vulnerable against infantry. I tried that tactic in multiplayer, works if your infantry is superior to the enemy infantry but it would never work if your infantry was militia hoplites or levy pikemen. Even the eastern infantry can push through, they won't kill many but they don't need to, they only need to mess up your formation for the general bodyguard to slaughter your guys in sword to sword combat.
I started playing again a few weeks ago, thanks to your videos.
About this video - in terms of general difficulty based on positions, you need to consider the plague in Macedonia that erupts and decimate you
Good video !
Thank you!!
Pontus and egypt are pretty hellenisic in this game .
Pontus were mainly Greek colonies,Egypt is ruled by Greeks at this point
The Greeks are far and away the best once you have some experience. You can be at 11 regions at the end of turn 2. It's like playing with three factions at once. Good video, btw.
At 2 turns!?
I actually like Thrace. It's fun to hold with the phalanx pikemen and flank with either falxmen or bastarnae.
My hot take: Thracian spear men are actually good because their long pikes are unique in that if you set up the formation just right they can compete with more expensive spearmen as they can have 1 more layer of pikes dealing damage.
And also the unit size makes them harder to break up then Spartans (but I guess I concede that Spartans are technically better I just really like Thrace lol.)
No emphasis on the early game at all. Seleucids have a very weak early game army (Macedon has an amazing early game with light lancer spam) and need a large city to start churning out cataphracts and silver shields. Silver Legionaries require a Tier 5 barracks and have weaker morale than Roman legionary cohorts. Elephants can only be trained or retrained in a limited set of regions. Seleucids also take longer to start taking on the Romans due to starting farther away, so the Romans will be harder to deal with once they get there. Add their bad starting position with literally every settlement they have being under threat, and the Seleucids' on-paper superiority doesn't hold up to scrutiny in an actual campaign.
My list:
1-Macedon. Very easy to play with its hammer-and-anvil style army. Hold with pikemen, use cavalry to flank, rinse and repeat. Great early game with levy pikemen and light lancers, later royal pikes and heavy cavalry (either type) with light lancer support. Very good temples, can get +3 to missile weapons to improve their archers, go for improved melee/extra experience or law to reduce corruption. Commanding starting position with a minor city ready to go from Turn 1 and reunifying Greece quickly gives them even more money and a solid recruitment base to take on the Romans. No big downside.
2-Greeks. Also very easy to play, just get the enemy into a tight space (corner camp, bridge, street, broken gate or wall section) and just batter them into submission with waves of phalanxes. Terrible cavalry, so the hoplites are going to be used as a sledgehammer instead of an anvil. Thankfully, armored hoplites are more than equal to the task. Bad archers but can easily get mercenary Cretan archers. Great temples. Rich but fragmented starting position but they are so good at defending sieges that it hardly matters. Easy access to Italy and great starting economy.
3-Seleucids. As outlined above. Temples are not great either, as they're lacking a law or trade income temple for settlements that are far away from the front. They do have a pop booster and forge temple though. All in all, very late game focused and has to be pretty much carried by scythed chariots early on, which is not every player's cup of tea.
4-Thrace. OK starting position but weaker economy than the other Hellenic factions. Same terrible cavalry as the Greeks, with the outstanding hoplites being replaced by weaker pikemen and barbarian shock infantry. Unfortunately falxmen are extremely vulnerable to missiles and Bastarnae are way overpriced, so their unit roster is especially weak in the early game as they lack the compensating factors that the other factions have (light lancers, hoplites and scythed chariots respectively). Lackluster late game. Temples are just OK but nothing amazing.
I once had a great campaign playing as Seleucids, once you overcome Pontus, Armenia and Egypt, which is challenging early-game, you have an incredibly strong position with massive cities, a strong economy, and excellent, varied units. If you beat your rivals and take over the Asian/ North African provinces you are in a prime position to sweep the board
How to fix the Selucids
1. Have a larger map to the East and South allowing the full scope of the Selucids Empire. You have the core highly developed regions in Mesopotamia and Syria whilst the regions out to east are mostly poorly developed.
2. Give the Selucids 2 to three medium sized armies made up mostly phalanx pikemen but they do have at least one unit of Silver Shield Pikemen and Companion Cavalry in each of their armies. Essentially you get limited amount of powerful high tier units in the early game but you must be careful with them because you will not be able to replace them until later.
3. Nerf Pontos and Armenia by making them single province Vassals. If you play as these factions you must be careful with your timing when you want to go independent. Declare too early they send one of their powerful armies and crush you. You generally want to play nice at first, keep the vassalage they have over you and nab what free rebel settlements in Anatolia and the Caucasus you can get and build up. Wait until you think the Selucids have been sufficiently worn down by the Ptolemaic Kingdom then you can take their provinces in Anatolia and Mesopotamia.
4. Replace Bronze Age Egypt with the Ptolemaic Kingdom a hybrid faction. The Ptolemaic Kingdom is Greek overlords ruling over Egyptian native population so for them they really need to balance Greek cultural advancements with appeasing their native subjects. Their best economical buildings and military units are greek but if they build them outside Alexandria the only Greek majority settlement in Egypt it will cause unrest with the Egyptian natives.
Seleucids are surrounded, but the general location on the map is very powerful If you can take on egypt, Parthia, Armenia, and Pontus and Greek Pergamum early and defend on all fronts eventually you wear the enemy down and focus on taking out the biggest threat in the region - Egypt. When Egypt are gone, your southern flank is then secured (as Numidia generally don’t come at you) and you can secure the rest of Asia Minor and Middle East. Once you have held on to and secure the entire Middle East, the economic advantage is like no other. Usually at this stage in the game the empire generates between 50,000 and 100,000 Denerai per turn. Big cities like Sidon, Damascus, Pergamum, Jerusalem, Memphis, Alexandria, Thebes, and Sinope, at this point can field some of the most powerful armies you can play with in the game AND you have the finances to do so. (Basically as soon as you defeat Egypt, Armenia, Pontus, and Parthia (and some Greece) you are a power house in the game ready for a fight with the Romans.)
From this point I typically like to take Siwa from Numidia which usually wipes them out. Scipii will have defeated Carthage and the rest of Numidia and will now be looking at you. They will send their legions a very long way across the desert from Carthage and Thapsus to come at you. The advantage is that when they reach you around Siwa and you have a big battle, they have to wait for reinforcements all the way from that area again. Where as because you own Alexandria, Memphis and Thebes - e massive cities in close proximity, you can rapidly retrain and redeploy. It doesn’t take much of this before the Scippis large legions are all worn down to a few skeleton units. Now your full strength armies can walk through Africa taking the old Carthaginian and Numidian territories with ease. A handy tip is to send them on ships via Alexandria along the coast as it saves time. You can then easily take out Sicily, Caralis, and Palma and control the Mediterranean. Whilst this is going on I like to have 2 or 3 big armies launch simultaneous assaults into modern day Greece which is usually held by the Brutii. I send them from the ports at Pergamum, Nicomedia, and Halicarnassus. Halicarnassus strikes southern Greece, usually at Sparta or Athens. Pergamum puts an army at Larissa. Nicomedia puts their army at Byzantium. The Brutii armies are usually in the north fighting the dacians and the Scythians at this point so the cities are easy pickings. The southern army can secure Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Thermon and Apollonia with little opposition. The army at Larissa
take on Thesalonica and hold any attack from the north. Byzantium will also hold fast where they are (maybe take Tylis if there is time before the Brutii armies engage. The key to this phase is to have many spear units in these armies so when the massive Brutii armies assault Byzantium and thessalonica, you can have spear units stationed in all of the road ways leading to the town square. Have some archers behind them and pretty soon the big Brutii forces will be being forced into your spears and having arrows reign down will be in full retreat. Send in the Calvary to mop up before they escape. Your army is already in a city so retraining is easy. Again doing this for a few turns and the Brutii legions are nothing. The northern empire section, I usually just hold the line at kotais, and the other 3 cities in its line. I don’t bother going into Scythian territory or northern Parthia because 1. It takes far to long to go up, take the cities and then go across the north and into Greece from the top (which also risks war with Germania and Dacia which is just unnecessary). Having the 4 cities in a line with a few units per garrison will be enough to deter any attacks, but usually no armies come from that direction. By this time my army has the Middle East, modern day turkey and Greece, and North Africa, plus all of the islands in the med. I don’t bother with Spain as again is unnecessary and there is a naturals sea border there. At this point I launch my armies from Sicily and from Greece to invade and take southern Italy and Capua in tandem. Also I will land armies to the north and take out Arminium and Arretium. Doing this it prevents any Julie counter attacks when you’re trying to take Rome. If any Julie armies do come from the northern Galic regions, you just do the same as you did to the Brutii at Byzantium and Thesalonica and hold them at the cities either spearman. The armies from the south then surround Rome in a glorious final siege and battle. (Hint - if you want a really easy last battle against the SPQR large army, then put one of your armies the other side of the river which is next to Rome from its army. It will then assault you accross the river and you just stick a bunch of spear units at the crossing with covering missile support and they get warn down pretty easy. Cavalry does the mop up and before you know it, the great power is now reduced to nothing. (You could take Rome earlier, but I like to savour them to the last city so that when I take the city, the campaign is won).
Conclusion, provided you can get past the first 50 turns where you are assaulted by 5 factions on 4 fronts, Seleucids can become the wealthiest, strongest, and most enjoyable factions on the game.
This may not work on a harder difficulty, but the Greek Cities have potentially the best starting position if you can hold all of your territory. I blitzkrieg'd the Scipii before any of the three armies could unite and started building up an army in Messana and a navy in Syracuse to sink any approaching army on transports. This had the effect of confusing the AI to the point all three Romans tried to fight me in Sicily which slowed down the Brutii advance in Greece.
In the end I could just blockade Capua and eventually caught the Brutii in a pincer.
Seleucids truly are the strongest. Their roster is top tier. Yes, they have a hard start, and the AI will always loose, put if a player picks them up, they can quite easy dominate even roman armys.
On the other hand....Greek Cities...armourd hoplites are just so visually pleasing...probably the best looking unit in the Game....
I just started playing as Macedon this month and I think it’s my favorite hellenic faction
Fully agree on Seleucids, depending on how you look at it however the tough starting position can be a pro if you want a challenge.
But my main problem is that as a player you never get to fight against a late game Seleucid Empire. They never live that long. The solution to that would have been more enemies for Egypt, Egypt's early roster and position is too good.
If Numidia had a second settlement on the Egyptian's side with the cities close by, and maybe another minor settlement in the lower right corner of the map closer to Egypt than to the Seleucids, that could have fixed the balance in that area.
Willem Verheij started a campaigned as Macedon recently, and the Seleucids are doing surprisingly well. Not only have they not lost any of their initial territories, but even got some from Egypt. I'm now about 50 turns into the game. It may have happened because Pontus decided to attack me after I took Byzantium. And then Armenia decided to make a move on weakened Pontus so both countries were to busy to bother with the Seleucids.
I always thought the Greek voice acknowledging your clicks etc sounded like the Scorpions lead singer
From my experience with greek city, their start are actually the best of the game but also very tricky.
You get acces to very powerfull wonders.
Scipii will ALWAYS attack Syracuse in the first 4-10 turn because its the first senate mission they have. And since it's a minor city loosing it will hurt.
But if you can reppel the first attack you won't be in any trouble in this part of the greece, with only 2 city and a sea between you the Scipii will be stuck.
(which I can do because I recruit all mercenary in Sicily, otherwise you are stuck with a poor garnison and no real recruitment. The city got stone walls)
Hard to take their city because they are always a lot.
Turky will be at peace for a lot lot more turn, because Ponti will fight the Seleucid who will fight everyone else.
The real main challenge of the greek is to take Corinth AND Athenes before Brutii and Macedonian launch the war.
Because you will have to face the two, you got only one army in greece and you really need those +4 units per turn.
The economy will be so high so quickly you will have no trouble at all after the 30 first turn
Here's a fun fact for you, Cataphracts have maces as their secondary weapon, meaning they are AP once their charge runs out. That means they will tear any other cavalry to shreds if they get into a fight with it, not even Praetorian cavalry can stop them. Your only hope is to use their slower speed to circle-charge them, but even that won't work if seleucids bring a mix of cataphracts and companions.
Egypt can beat them, but not in one on one fight, Desert cav is just that dirt cheap compared to cataphracts and also AP, and second highest archer attack in the game also helps. Rome can beat them with legion AP missiles, but seleucids have Silver legion testudo to solve that problem, and even Urban cohorts will melt to front pin with Silver pikemen and rear charge and subsequent AP mace by cataphracts.
The real problem is affording them, because that elite force won't come cheap. But you do start with two wonders, and will most likely have most of them before even seeing a roman eagle, so...
I don't know what I am doing here, but great video.
"The Seleucids don't have access to them [wonders of the world]." You do realise that they start in possession of one wonder (Hanging Gardens), and are right next to two more (Mausoleum at Halicarnassus and Colossus of Rhodes), right? And that if they expand towards Egypt (which any Seleucid player is probably going to have to do to survive), they're going to take two more?
Selucid empire getting Halicarnassus on turn 2. I known its normally not needed, as your normally built up by then. But faster construction early game is nice
Its weird, I remember watching your video's alot in the past, and when I stopped seeing your video's. I just assumed you were busy, turns out I was unsubscribed. Evern though I know I never did, so thanks CZcams.
Only reason I re-found you was because I was just browsing total war games and saw your name. Instantly my memory began running with familiarity
haha thats good you came back, thanks! More content to be coming soon
Pikemen with bastarnae and/or falxmen on the flanks is a rather powerful combo though. If you meet stronger phalanxes, lock them with your pikemen, and then run around and flank them with your other infantry who would then just butcher them.
Greek cities cannnot be lower than second, and I would be tough to convince that they aren’t number 1. Spartan Hoplites are arguably the best unit in the game. I like them better than Urban Cohort, but to each their own. Armored Hoplites are acquirable early and will hold a line for awhile for hammer and anvil.
Don’t forget, the peltasts can be used as a hammer after throwing their javelins.
Yeah but their cav is shit
Seleucid are my favorits faction. Strong phalanx, very good cav and elephant . hephaistus's temple can give gold weapons and armor in late game. Yes, the land is very large, but you can protect cities with 5-6 phalanx units and begins expansion against egypt (who are the most dangerous neigboors factions) an you are OK.
I feel like a good way to summarize the Seleucid campaign is: Starts off challenging requiring better strategy, planning, and patience. Late Campaign one of the Easiest factions to expand with.
I agree with everything you said BTW what is your favorite faction
light lancers are the starting cav for macedon, which are great for the early game.
Do you know any work around to get Rome to work on windows 10? I have the disk copy of the vanilla and barbarian, I don’t have the original key for it (not even sure it came with one) any ideas? Online just directs me to use steam but it doesn’t seem to work for me. I get the admin error where you need to start with admin but just won’t work
Waiting for you to play a campaign as SPQR
SPQR is literally just take out the other roman starter factions and then enjoy your stonks.
You should do a campaign as the Seleucids like you did with the Greeks.
I actually fuckin love this channel
haha thank you so much, lot more content coming soon
Lugotorix np I have been watching you for a while I’m re watching the Greek campaign
Usually the issues I have with your videos is an obvious lack of a script, this time though I can say its because of your opinions :)
the selucids are super flexible in terms of their army. the best cav with cataphracts, which are better than companions in pure combat power, second best pikemen (below royal pikemen), excellent melee infantry with legionaries, special units like chariots and elephants. their only lacking category is archers (like all greek factions), which they can supplement with cretan archers. they even got great early game missile cav (like most greek factions), which is great for flanking shots and chasing fleeing enemies. for horse archers they can get mercenaries later.
the only real advantage macedon has over them is slightly better pikemen...everything else is the same or better with the selucids, with the legionaries, better cav and special units.
Macedon has really good cavalary and pike units and good starting position to go on rome early when its weak
Leginoariez go well with phalangites , legionainres stay forward loose formation skirimish and run back and leave the fighting to pikes cataphratcs will dominate the flanks , they dont have a lot of weakness other than lacking good archers but they can get that too in form of createn archers
I'm going to have to be a contrarian in terms of the starting position rankings. In terms of armies I 100% agree with you, do note however that the Seleucid's Silver Shield Pikemen are worst than the Macedonian Royal Pikemen but having the Silver Shield Legionnaires, Cataphracts, Scythed Chariots and Elephants more than make up for that. In terms of starting positions however I completely disagree with you, my list is nearly a mirror image of yours. In my view the Seleucids actually have the best starting position than the Greeks than the Macedonians and lastly the Thracians. Do note that I rank this not just in terms of difficulty but also in terms of expansion(growth) potential. The Thracian starting position may be relatively secure but their lands are relatively poor and unless you expand into more poor territories(Scythia, Dacia and Germanic rebels) than this territory is going to be pretty hard to take and even harder to hold. I mean yeah Constantinople is pretty amazing to take early on and is nearly free, and Nicea is an easy follow up, but after those 2 what do you do? Going into Greece is tough as Macedon is pretty powerful early on and even if you are successful the Brutii are just around the corner and the weaker you make the Macedonians the stronger the Brutii are going to be(due to losing less troops in their war against Macedon).
It's for this same reason that I rank Macedon and the Greek cities as 2 and 3 respectively. The reason I rank the Greek Cities above Macedon is simple, their best unit: Armored Hoplite, comes online much faster, all it requires is a Minor City and you basically have your best unit(Spartan Hoplites can only be recruited in Sparta and take 2 turns and much more tech to recruit so they're never going to be the core of your armies). Macedon on the other hand gets the decent but far from amazing Phalanx Pikemen, which while perfectly serviceable are simply no match for Armored Hoplites. Both of them have the same problem however, they have to kill each other ASAP and than brace for impact against the Brutii, and if successfully holding them back than probably the other 2 Roman factions as well.
Which brings us to my most controversial opinion that the Seleucid starting position is actually the best of all the Hellenic factions. Yes on paper it's a very tough starting position and certainly not recommended for new players, though none of the Hellenic factions are so it's a bit of a moot point. The thing is that while the Seleucids are going to be fighting 4-5 wars right from the get-go, these wars are against vastly inferior opponents than what the other factions face early on. All you really need is a 4-5 units of Pikemen(even the crappy militia hoplites or levy pikemen) garrison in every border town to successfully defend it against whatever the AI will throw at you early on. Whether you're doing the classic V shape right behind the gate or just camping the town center, the AI will most likely assault your settlements and than lose a whole lot of troops before finally retreating and losing the battle. Thus you can focus on 1 front at a time with your real army and just leave token garrisons everywhere else and slowly but surely whittle down the AI until you completely secure Asia Minor before heading down towards Egypt(unlike your own guide on the Seleucids I find there's no reason at all to rush Egypt as your late game roster is vastly superior to theirs, as will your economy if you secure all of Asia Minor first). Moreover Asia Minor is an incredibly rich province in its own right, almost as good as Greece, with both plenty of trade resources and Mediterranean ports to trade these resources from. Oh and you start with the Hanging Gardens of Babylon which is arguably the best early game wonder, and have very easy access to both Halicarnasus for its Mausoleum and Rhodes for its Colossus.
I have no idea why, but I gotta say for some reason I am really enjoying watching videos about a game I KNOW I will never play ever again. (Especially without a mod like EB)
2 years too late but there is a significant difference between light and heavy weapons that separates the pikes from the spears. Levy Pikemen for wooden wall defense are the most cost effective unit. Macedon Light lances while have little armour are equipped with heavy weapons which can smash non-spear infantry on the charge.
If you take campaign position into consideration, then Macedon beats Seleucia. But if you only consider unit roster, the Seleucids are easily the best Hellenic faction.
Also, you severely underrate the Militia Hoplite. Yes, they suck, but they suck much less than most other units at the same tier. From the tier 1 barracks you get stuff like Town Watch and (IIRC) Eastern Infantry. Those units are hot garbage. Town Watch will do a job if properly supported. Not as good as Barbarian factions, especially Germania, but in the rest of the world Militia Hoplites are the king of tier 1 infantry.
I do a lot of Seleucid migration campaigns. England was the most fun! By turn 10 you can have a full stack, all family members, 8 ships in Greece and just abandon your cities in the east and take Athens and then retake all of Greece to make the game easier.
They should've cut Militia Hoplites from the Macedonian and Seleucid rosters, bumped Levy Pikemen down to Tier 1, and given them a fourth more "average" pike unit above Levy Pikemen in the Tier 2 slot. Probably call that unit Pikemen and rename the current Pikemen to something like Veteran Pikemen (or Phalangites if they're feeling a bit more historical).
Before I watch I’m saying Seleucids assuming you can make it past the beginning part lol
The Seleucids are the best, and I won't have a word said against them. Go blitzkrieg against Pontus and Egypt really early, otherwise you are dead. After that, Parthia and Armenia are no worries as long as you are smart and have good tech. Once you get the Seleucid late-game armies, it is only really Rome that will cause you a problem.
Seleucids difficult? Hold my sarissa...
Yeah. Just turtle your border towns with Levy Pikes and steamroll Egypt before they get going.
Daddy Lugotorix is back !
Agree on most points. However Greeks have a better position. Collosus is a huge factor, and statue of Zeus is fairly easy to take. Macedons get the plague however.
I remember as a kid I would make a custom army of just Spartans and see how many soldiers they could defend against. 😂
Tough choice between Macedon and Seleucids, the latter have the better unit roster but Macedon has an excellent starting location and can quickly and easily grow its possessions to the point where it is a superpower by turn 20. With Seleucids you must actually be aggressive from the off and try to neutralize Parthia, while fighting off Egypt. Even in Anatolia you can do a lot with just half a stack with the right mercenaries.
Nice long video
Thank you many more to come!!
Common themes with Greek factions: Militia Hoplites are garbage, but they are better than Levi Pikemen, Militia Cavalry and Greek Cavalry are the two weakest cavalry units in the game. Greek Cavalry can do some light cavalry business, but don't expect them to win against any other light cavalry.
Selucids: By Ares, your early army is shit. Early on, you will have Militia Hoplites, Peltasts, and Militia Cavalry. But also, if you play your cards right, you can get access to Chariots. Chariots are anti-cavalry, and you should use them this way. Just not against Egypt - their chariots are better. On top of that, the infantry ranks of your northern opponents will feature Hillmen and Eastern Infantry. Your Militia Hoplites are enough to deal with those. Dealing with Egypt will be the hardest challenge in the campaign.
Thrace: You are going to rush Macedon, just like Dacia. Just like Dacia, use Falxmen. After Macedon, you'll want to deal with Greeks (exactly the same way as you deal with Macedon), and Romans. Romans can be annoying, but their pre-Marian infantry loses to Falxmen hard. The hard part is having the worst cavalry in the game.
Greeks: Shares the worst cavalry in the game with Thrace. Also, has four factions going for their four cities. Defend them, you are good at it. In fact, defense is the only thing you're good at, so do use it when you need it. After you'll deal with initial punches, get your ball rolling everywhere, except for Thermon.
Macedon: Gets access to Phalanx Pikemen very early on. Add to that, Light Lances are basically anti-Greek and anti-pre-marian-Roman charge cavalry. There isn't much of a plan here - get the Greece, deal with Romans, and very little will be able to touch you.
Levy Pikes are way better than militia hoplites. The extra reach and extra men are massive bonuses. The only thing militia hoplites have going for them is they take hits from arrows better. Don't let your levy pikes get shot, and they will slaughter anything that gets in front of them, except for higher-tier phalanxes and sometimes enemy bodyguards.
I think the Hellenic factions should get Thureophoroi and Thorakitai highly flexible infantry that can do many roles though their main weakness is that they are not as good as specialised units in any particular role. Essentially they are spear armed versions of Roman infantry
I agree with your army ranking, but I don’t really agree with the campaign map one. I found the Greek Cities much more difficult than the Seleucids.
I took over all of Turkey and weathered the Armenian and Egyptian storms until I got that famous powerful army going. Then I completely swept through them.
Should have put Seleucids above Greece. Per the analysis, they're somewhat Greece but with harder start, with way more options in terms of their units, which seems to me to be strictly better than Greece as long as you can get going. I also think faction ranking should not so thoroughly be decided by start difficulty.
So maybe: Thrace - Greece - Seleucid - Macedon.