SAS Selection Deaths - Coroner finds Neglect (14/07/2015)
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- čas přidán 14. 07. 2015
- A coroner in Solihull has ruled that three reservists who died during an SAS selection march in 2013 would have survived if the march had been stopped when other soldiers fell ill.
The march across Pen-Y-Fan in South Wales is one of the toughest selection exercises in the world. The coroner concluded that the three candidates died as a result of neglect on the part of the special forces regiment.
Anyone that’s been on the hills knows it’s unforgiving. It’s also not easy finding an injured person in that environment. Let’s remember they’re not signing up to be cruise ship staff. Having said that total respect to these guys that perished. RIP
1:06 "16 miles in 9 hours" - Incorrect... nearly 15 miles (24 Km) in 4 Hr 10min
Yes that's right for the fan dance Paul, but that wasn't the fan dance. It was point to point. Same distance but at 3km/h not 6km/h as on the fan dance.
All wrong
ITS A SHAME THAT MEN DIED ON THE COURSE...HAVING SPENT SOME TIMES YEARS BUILDING UP THEIR ENDURANCE AND SPEED...THESE BLOKES SACRIFICE RELATIONSHIPS AND FAMILY LIFE TO GET THROUGH IT...THE UTMOST DEDICATION IN ALL THEY DO....💥💥💥💥😁😁😁
@@andreedowns4561 chill w the caps
Pretty crazy fit to do this even without the 50 pounds bag...
This is sad and unfortunate, but before selection apparently they have to sign paperwork saying there is a risk of death
Disclaimers dont work in law
That may be so, but it's no excuse for people to hide behind when they're not doing their job. The military are very good at covering their arses.
Its interesting to hear the ex-sas member to refer to the trainees as "products".
Its a common term even used In the US military
Product is not applicable to human beings. Product did not have dignity but humans have. I was a soldier for 6 years, I quit. Found better life as being civilian.
Wonder what the health and safety guidelines are behind enemy lines? I wish I had the courage to do what they tried to do.
@@fs6086 correct you quit. And a product is something derived from a process you moron
@@fs6086 products have worth, human beings don’t. True, a product is given made up worth, but that’s more than what a human being is. Legacy is more important than life. You don’t have a legacy now. You have a life. Enjoy it for what it is. No one else will remember you for it. So make the best of it, I on the other hand, will build a legacy, and sacrifice my life for it.
I cant speak for the others but Craig Roberts was one of the greatest people ever and his potential had absolutely no limits. He was a true gentleman and warrior and this was an absolute cluster fuck of the highest magnitude!..rip brothers..end of message end of broadcast
16 miles in 30 degrees in Wales... 25 miles in 45 degrees in Afghanistan...
spot on
How many soldiers died from heat stroke in Afghanistan?
You don't have a clue what you're talking about. 16 miles up and down hills against the clock, no stopping, no rest, no shade. That's very different from a combat situation where you fight in 20 min bursts laying up as much as possible.
@@JamchesterBoozle Spot on. Pluss, soldiers in Afghanistan are acclimatized to the weather over months.
@@BrutusBerserk Yes that's right Brutus. The 18 SIGS lads were on the same march and they were absolutely fine because they had been training in heat. All these comments glorifying the SAS on here piss me off, they're not immortals.
3.24 m „We want a product that can actually stay alive“ 🤨
Starts to make more sense as I note they were reservists not regulars
I want to make a point here, so please bear with my narrative. Two years ago, when I was 61 and my daughter (who is small, lightweight and mentally stronger than I am), was 31, we walked and jogged 16 milles in 7 hours, around Keilder Water in Northumberland. We each carried a single person tent, wet weather gear; rations + cooking utensils; spare clothing and I started off with 2 litres of water. The weather was cool and overcast.
Our aim was to walk all the way around Keilder Water, in two days. We were to wild camp overnight at a designated site. The plan was to start early and have a leisurely stroll. We started late and began walking around 2pm, in the afternoon. We wanted to have our tents up before dark. We managed to get to our campsite by 8.30pm and had eaten and ready for sleep by 9.30.
My daughter told me later that for most of the walk, she suffered pain in her ankle from an injury, whilst doing the Hadrian's Wall walk a few weeks earlier.
The point I am trying to make is: these young SAS recruits, justifiably want to prove to themselves that they are capable of achieving the highest professional qualification in the British Army; enrollment into the SAS. These guys want to be leaders, independent, strong-minded. It's a very hot day, they're carrying massive loads over 16 miles, surely they must have carried their own water and if so, they must have known that, because of the hot weather, they should carry extra water. Or, am I missing the point somewhere?
Keith Lynch Hi Keith. The assumption that it was just about water is wrong. I was carrying 7l of water on that day and no amount of water would have saved any of the lads. The general public DO NOT have the slightest understanding of the pressure of doing the march that day in full kit 60llbs approx on your back, freak weather conditions with no wind.
Let me give you some perspective, in 2013 when I was on this march I could run 10 miles in 1hour! Do you understand how the body reacts when it gets hypathermia? Well, there’s a valve in your neck which regulates your bodies temperature, like sweating. Once it goes past a certain temperature it stops working, that’s hypathermia. What happens next is your body cooks itself from the inside with no defence mechanisms.
I wish people would not compare civvi experiences with this it’s just not the same. Even the SF experience Fan Dance where you can do the Fan Dance route. I watched it just and it made me laugh, it’s so relaxed and casual in comparison. Hope that helps you understand
You weren't there, nor was I, so we don't know for sure what and why
@@JamchesterBoozle agreed. These guys could have humping for days on end. Who knows
You are only allowed to carry the designated amount and weight prior set by the cadre
@@davidpierce9949 Well i was there on the march, so feel free to ask any questions.
we shouldn't be involved men have died doing this course for years honour the men they died for the job don't disrespect their dream they believed it was worth it
JC: There is never any reason to allow men to die during training.
01:05 - 16 Miles in 9 hours? , i thought the brecon beacons test was 40 miles to be completed is something like 22 hours?
There is a lot of mis information all over the net about it. They didn't die on the Fan Dance they died on 'Point to Point' and anyone who's ever done selection will tell you the Fan Dance is not hard for a fit recruit. 16 miles in 9 hours is incredibly slow. You'd be expected to complete that distance in 6 hours max depending on weight and terrain.
Its 4 hours. 3:30 or less for a good pass.
john Youre right on one hand this was point to point...but I’m guessing you’ve never done the fan dance because it certainly wasn’t easy. I done it in 3:40 and I can honestly say I was ultra fit in every department. I was about 5/30 lads.
16 miles in 03.45hrs
he said 60 miles, ive done 26 miles in 8 hrs over 3 mountains with no real weight n i aint no sas soldier
Poor personal discipline cost these brave lads their lives. A pint of water weights a pound and a quarter and no on tells you how much you can carry, its up to you and there is never a guarantee of water at any RV and yes I have done it three times.
I disagree with Mcnab. Whilst it is true that soldiers must operate in hot climates no one ever talks about the soldiers who passed selection in milder weather. They to have to operate in hot climates. Who decided that the weather factors into selection when it was devised by Woodhouse? Selection itself is supposed to be the test, not with weather thrown in. British summer is hit and miss, some years it's a wash out. Either take selection abroad to a hot country or introduce a temperature cap.
You’ve done selection several times? Jog on
Fuck off
@@Rayshoesmith2023 several times lmfao . do it twice then you have had a vw and you only get one more chance .
phil driver so you’re a failure
Another example of how stupid this world and the media is and that they have no idea of what SAS is about. Just back off and leave the regiment alone.
IEnglish 96 rubbish....lol
These tests are meant to be brutally hard.. the British sas don't give in just because its hard.. mental and physical toughness is paramount.
Every single potential trooper has to be pushed to their and beyond
Most people have a wall, then they just give in.. these guys sadly lost their lives knowing when the going gets tough, they DONT give in.
Imagine that your IN country and one of your team says, sorry lads can't do it.. they work as a team, rely on each other as a team.
Brutal, hard realistic yes . Playing God with good mens lives never. bollocks to all you tough guys .Them lads had families ,they like so many others ,would give their right arm to fulfill their dream ,they gave more. SHOLD NEVER HAVE BEEN ON THE HILL THAT DAY END OF TAFF 173 147
@@terryevans2411 how far is to far...?
I guess you've never served your country and just a keyboard warrior ,???
0:55 what does VW mean?
And why can they be voluntary withdrawn if it s unvoluntary?
V.W means the recruit can voluntary withdraw from the course as of their own discretion!
They can also be binned of the course by the D.S.
If a said recruit simply isn't cutting it!
Be that a Medical,physical,
Mental fortitude, attitude or other!
Hence why a course can start with In excess of 180 recruits!
With maybe 8/9 whom will actually be badged!
Hope this answers your??
Regards!
.....
you cannot tell the weather what to do
FYI, the majority of people who have died in selection have no previous military training, usually civvies signing up for reserves, it's a harsh truth but this isn't to be taken lightly, it's not a tough mudder, it's a life changing choice.
That's the way the cookie crumbles. Shame the logistics weren't better done by checkpoints/planners, though: there should be standby rescue teams that can reach somebody if they suddenly stop movement for a prolonged period without contact. What a waste.
Agree with the majority however even as a reserve you can’t just ‘sign up’ for SF selection. You have to progress down a veery similar route etc
True thow combat conditions will be alot worse than that
Not true. In combat you can lay up and rest. There was no option of that on this day, it was continuous regardless of how bad you felt. No time for a quick break, no shade to rest in and no water to cool off in. Plus it was a solo effort, no mates around to talk to and ask how they felt - all adds up to a very confusing and hellish mix.
@@JamchesterBoozle I've had family in WW11 / VIETNAM AND AFGHANISTAN N IRAQ IS TRUE
@@northernsurvivalbackcountr4986 WW 11 - wow fairplay, in this universe we're still on WW2 fortunately.
I'm not saying combat isn't brutal of course it is. But I was on the march that day in July 2013, I know first hand what it felt like. As i was utterly confused and hallucinating (please remember at this stage I didn't know anyone had died), I thought to myself it would be a good idea to jump off a cliff, luckily i realised in my less than optimal mental state that probably would have ended badly. As far as intense physical exertion goes, it doesn't get much more intense than this. There are no breaks, shade or lay-ups.
And THATS the amount of effort you should put in to everything military,
Fucking good effort lads.. I'm sure you would've ended up in the regiment. RIP
Lets be honest , it's SF Selection, no more needs to be said......other than R.I.P
Bloody ridiculous.
I thought the SAS were to look out for one another . This is total neglect . Without question. David
Yes, selection must be tough. But instructors should be professional enough not to let the candidates die. No water, no doctor, shitty GPS - for me this is too many mistakes for such elite unit.
New recruits at Hereford watching me online.
So… They failed selection. Bummer.
Piss poor planning and preparation by the DS staff. McNab has been discredited, he's a clown.
McNab is SAS, he's certainly not a clown.
@@andyelliott8027 yes he is. there was a bounty on his head and he was banned from all Royal Marine camps for disrespecting all of his team one being a Royal. he was a clown as he disregarded vital information given to him in Iraq. even the SAS RSM got involved which was unheard of. Andy McKnob
@@paulsweet6235 Who put a bounty on his head?
most of the stuff that mcnabb wrote was fiction , and he admits it . the people want to hear the crap . the only factual book he wrote was immediate action . it is true he isnt respected in the regiment for bringing too much publicity to it . you dont join the reg for medals , you join it as a challenge most of the time . the hardest part of a troopers life is selection . if you want to read a more factual writer , read harry mcgallion , natural born killer . from the tenements of glasgow to barrister . i know harry , and he is still a lunatic today lol,
oops the book is called killing zone lol. he called himself a natural born killer .
I'm surprised they had no water? On tab excise's with basic training water bottles had to be brimmed. The SAS is the ultimate test. It must of been hard for them to hold their hand up and quit but that was a choice one has to make for this calibre of soldier.
They did have water they simply ran out. The fuck up was the instructors didn't put out enough water stations in-between RV's.
they had chocolate bars in their hands ... sugar is what they died from ....skeatesy
czcams.com/video/6esFOqj_IaY/video.html
Men have done this for years come rain or shine deaths in training are not new though unfortunate for these guys and their families RIP.
These people are the best in the world, they are not yanks they are hard men and as suchy they have to be pushed until they cannot be pushed any more. THIS does not help us at all. It is terrible these men died, it is however a price we pay for being protected by these men.
All volunteers nobody forced into it
Good old Mcnab, the biggest Walt of them all.
He is like Banksy he don't exist just a nice story to sell to the public
Even the bible says be prepared to
Walk the second mile if called upon
WTF has a fictional book got to do with this?
Idiot.
forget that vile mythology book
McNab, bloke can't let go can he...
The coroner’s verdict says it all. These guys were exceptionally fit. They pushed themselves too hard and beyond their limits. One poor chap was doused down by some civies. Pretty pitiful really. I am sure that if they had been pulled for not carrying enough water they would be alive today and may have on another occasion passed and made great troopers. I myself have had heat exhaustion twice. I am determined not to make it three times. That means carrying a lot of water in summer in those hills.
Dont soften selection
Candidates know the risks, its why the regiment is the best in the world
It's the SAS not the girl guides Standards are there for a reason
I know that the trackers are not monitored because when I did selection in 2005 and I got a bit lost about 3km from where i should have been...so I flagged down a white van man for a lift. I got in through the side door and left it open and crouched down with my head sticking out to see when the checkpoint was getting close. I suddenly dived out the vehicle when it was still moving at speed. I felt like I was on an operation for real.
The reason for it being as it is, is to instil self preservation, by teaching how to survive in snow, ice, wind, rain! In other words EXTREME weather conditions!
Each soldier is responsible for his/her own health and safety, then team members!
Tosspots sitting in air conditioned offices, sipping martinis, seem to believe help should be immediate!
Ask any mountain rescue team member, IT TAKES TIME, even with location devices, to arrange and dispatch assistance! Then they have to FIND the casualty!
Only idiots, lawyers and other “experts” condemn things they know nothing about!
Well said.
shit happens if you don't make it the guys knew what the weather was like that day so crack on
Someone should be locked up
Yes special forces selection should he tough as it's vital only the best get through, in that context the running of this selection process should've been 'the best' as its run by men who've passed selection themselves...they failed.
It wasn't winter, it wasn't dark and these instructors definitely knew the risks of heat stroke and should've identified the threat in their planning. Losing men in these circumstances should be viewed as a failure not 'these things happen'.
The Solihull coroner is a fanny. We do not need softer training for elite units or they become less elite. Sad to hear about the deaths and respect for their effort.
Sas 1 sas they blocked the trackers
I’ve been told it’s luck tbh and I don’t Doubt it.
Shes killed at hereford
This is no disrespect to the SAS, but there are certain people who think that being homeless is just a skive to get out of work or another more onerous duty. I don't see the difference between The Beacons in midsummer and the streets in midwinter. People die both ways. If we're so shameful why not stand up now and say so. Maybe YOU need to get off.
P.S. Nice one Andy. So the rumour is true; you can deliver 10 words without it including the "S" one.
Few walters in ere huh ?...
Class system and stupid officers, the Winter course can even be tougher as if you stop you freeze to death. As a Paratrooper we were forced to do a march in the desert 40 degrees and again men nearly died.
These guys were not forced
@@cheekboy7247 OK they wanted the badge and died because the idiots in charge did not calculate the weather situation. More check points with medics and a shorter route to take in extremes. Nobody can beat heat stroke even SAS. Officer idiots giving orders from base camp.
@@truthmediarebel5816 haven't you done selection? All the other came of the mountain that day. I agree with you on the medic part, but the guys who died pushed themself to hard. Go a little bit slower and drink more water.
@@truthmediarebel5816 so when they get into combat they are all told take the day off , lads it is too fkin hot . we done a 10 mile run , full battle order in sharjah in 75 . 45 degress of hell . no laying up . but we all got through .
@@phil-zz5hk You should join the SAS they need super men. I am ex SAS and 2 Para and have seen men die because the officers pushed too hard in conditions that the human body can not take. I am not talking 10 fucking minutes with water but men suffering heat stroke, heat exhaustion and no water.
Most reserve SF are in fact ex regular soldiers .not total civvies. You are responsible for the water and rations you carry and use. Checkpoint water is for emergency use. You cannot top up from the hills because of the algae. Also not much water in that temtperature.
The DS want sacking for the tracking failure to monitor. Reserves do most of selection at night on their own with no tracker. no marked route. on your own. only paired up in severe weather until day light. You live on the hill not go back to a nice warm barracks with showers and a cookhouse etc. At the end of the day it was a tragic set of consequences that led to 3 brave lads attempting selection. RIP to them. At least they had the guts to try not like most. As for the nob commenting get rid of reserves and spend more on the regulars. The current regulars were formed back into 22 from the reserves in the first place. Reserves today are fully embedded and support the regulars on operations. Its changed for the better since I served over 20 years ago.
Not entirely true. When I did Summer selection 20 years ago during a heatwave,, exactly 10 years before this incident they put out water stations in-between RV's. We never ran out of water. They clearly didn't do that here, they should never have ran out of water. That responsibility lies with the DS.
@@johnmellor932 like I said checkpoint water for emergency use. Because of the poison algae water is provided. You are expected to fend for yourself. I was 23 DS RTT for most of the 14 years I served. Blokes have to know and understand their own body. I did selection with a bloke that drank each night like a camel. He drank very little on the tabs. During our pre training. I could not do that because fluid went through me like the shits. Therefore I had to carry enough to enable constant topping up and drink before feeling thirsty.
@@richarddepledge960 Well, it's hard to remember after 20 years but I know I never ran out of water in sweltering heat. We had casualties, however no deaths. But when I did it it was run by 22 SAS DS. That selection in 2013 was not. I speculate because they were too stretched. So they handed it over to a.... lets say 'attached' unit.
@@johnmellor932 that's interesting if true. I've been out since 2003. But when joint selection started way back I think 95_97. the reserves did their own half course. Those that got that far went onto joint run by regular with the reserve DS assisting. I'm not sure how far into their own selection course those lads were on that perished. Either way tragic and should not have happened. I'll have to research it. Only the regulars had the tracking system. Unless that had changed as well. We used to tab day and night on our own regardless of weather unless exceptionally bad. We would pair up for night phase but as soon as day break separate. I have many great memories of both doing it and being DS helping to run it.
There was quite a difference between the two courses. Regulars even had heli flying over the routes.
@@richarddepledge960 Yes, 03 was my year. The TA as it was then used to do Test Weekend, essentially long drag, but by the time I came along 23/21 had to do Test Week alongside the regs. We turned up the week before for a warm up acclimatising week, then all of our own DS went home and we were formally handed over to 22. Even our briefings were held together. It was still all done with pen and paper then. We had flares but that was all, even phones didn't have GPS then. if we went down no one would know where we were. Accuracy was down to between RV check points. A bit scary when I think back.
They did in fact die on Test Week not the Fan Dance as was reported. I believe it was Point to Point they were on which is the longest tab other than Long Drag. For me I passed Test Week but failed Continuation. That was the end for me. But I'll never forget how hard it was.
Shes kgb and ira
Man talking is isis also snd works for amir khan
Sas1 killed all 3 men one of which was related to tom cruise
All three men were enemy agents infiltraing the sas ans they paid the price
Scottish intel this man and irs kgb killed wktj mcnab
These men were reservists, they will never be as fit as a regular soldier.
They should disband them and spend more money on the regular SAS.
And hence why reserve selection is different to regular selection
sorry dont agree with you - there are a lot of ex regulars which go into the reserves - I was one of them (RGJ), the last time I did that route was '91 when the local reserve unit I joined (4RRW) was selecting from volunteers to walk the pyrenees, this was done over a series of weekends, there were 2 ex sas guys in the team including the major in charge, the final weekend those of us that were left did the 1000m peaks race from colwyn bay up to the top of snowdon - was hard going with what we was carrying and the rate we were moving..
That comment shows your ignorance. Why don't you have a go? - if you think you're hard enough. You might learn something...
KOPASUS KILLING SAS SOLDIER IN BORNEO INDONESIA 1965...
KOPASUS IS THE BEST
ROBERT DEAN stupid...SAs always rilies on technologi but kopasus always rilies on fighting instincts , so many of the dead in borneo are kiled by kopasus....understand you
Doesn't matter. Indomee is better than fish and chips
Kopasus mostly the stupid soldier until they just cannot out ranges the GGK Malaysia.. most of them are stupid dumb..their think they are the best on everything but they are stupid.. who dare created many history.. Indonesia just dumb poor stupid people haaaa
Are you aware Kopasus is responsible for all the atrocities in West Papua?
The best? HAHAHAHA !
simply not good enough for SAS..
Crap comment,they gave it their all,but you always need to know when to ask for help.
Knob
No, the SAS were not good enough for them. Who let who down here? Think about that for a minute.
S**t happens. It's not a perfect world. Bravery and tenacity is what killed those three men. Sorry but the Navy Seals are the best.
There’s always one septic ready to make a tit of himself 🙄
To say the Seals are the best is funny 😂 I was on this march and I collapsed. The seals do nothing as long and arduous as the British boys. I know what you guys are like because you come to train in England, drive everywhere, don’t know what tabbing is! Lazy, jacked up fat bastards
Navy SEALs certainly arent. Taken from direct civillian entry. SAS are the equivalent of US Delta lads. SEALs, Rangers and Green berets are equivalent to 21/23 SAS or SFSG
I'm sure you never even served. Bro so how do u know who is the best
@@JamchesterBoozle to be fair, the SAS train w Seals too