Neumann KM 184 Condenser Mic Review / Test (vs. M5, RN17, U87 Ai)
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- čas přidán 4. 08. 2024
- Today I review an industry standard small diaphragm condenser, the Neumann KM184. This is well regarded for acoustic instruments, but I really enjoyed it for spoken word, singing, and acoustic guitar. It offers more of a neutral and smooth sound signature, so if you're looking for a hyper detailed modern sounding mic, this will not offer you that. But if you're looking for a more natural and realistic sound, I think it's a great option to consider.
HQ Audio Of Review: podcastage.com/rev/km184
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00:00 - Intro / Price / Disclaimer
00:20 - Setup
00:41 - What’s in the Box
01:00 - Build Quality / Walkthrough
01:19 - Specifications
01:45 - Polar Pattern Test (Tone / Rotation)
02:04 - Plosive Test
02:28 - Distance Test / Proximity Effect Test
02:51 - A Few Mic Position Tests
03:25 - Background Noise Test
03:46 - Untreated Room Test
04:19 - Shock Rejection Test
04:37 - Mic Resonance Tap Test
04:52 - Windscreen Tone Test
05:14 - Intro to Comparison
05:37 - Rode M5 Comparison
05:57 - Sennheiser E614 Comparison
06:16 - sE Electronics sE8 Comparison
06:37 - Oktava MK012 Comparison
07:01 - Beyerdynamic MC930 Comparison
07:25 - Neumann KM185 Comparison
07:53 - sE Electronics RN17 Comparison
08:22 - Neumann U87 Ai Comparison
08:48 - Music Test
10:03 - Pros & Cons
11:40 - Overall Thoughts
13:57 - Recommendation
18:08 - Outro
#StudioMic #SDC #MicReview
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Nice! I've been anticipating your small diaphram condenser reviews.
Hope you'll be doing more of them!
Small diaphragm condensers are super underrated for vocals and spoken word. Lots of great options in the sub $300 price range.
All of the mics he compared are probably good budget options. The Rode M5 in particular is often used as a beginner’s mic for anyone getting into field recording. However, there’s a reason the Neumann costs so much. The Neumann KM 184 crushes all of those lower priced mics on self noise and has a much flatter sound. (It’s flatness is ironically what hurts it on the electric guitar.)
SDCs are often used for indoor vocal recording for movies. This is essentially what some of the short Sennheisers are as far as I know.
I think small condensers are probably actually used a lot. It’s just that they are hidden. I’m going to guess that many podcasters use them because they have no knowledge about microphones and just pick one up due to the low price
@ryan_454
Can you list some of your favorites in that under 300 range?
been waiting for this for ages. thanks
That's how you do a review. Fifteen minutes of exactly what you wanted to know about it. Crazy good review format. Thank you.
I've absolutely loved this mic used on ANY acoustic instrument. It just sounds so natural and doesn't come across as harsh or overbearing in the top end. It's pretty much the perfect mic for natural sounding recordings.
I just want to say thank you for this review I have been looking for a mic to slightly push out of camera for my CZcams videos, I bought this on Amazon for $628 on Cyber Monday. What an amazing microphone especially with LA2A and EQ. Keep up the good work sir, love the channel!
Another great video! Love your thoroughness.
E614 and sE8 are actually my favorites of this bunch for your voice. great stuff!
A great review of one of my favorite mics. I have used the 184 on numerous film score dates and the smooth, uncolored sound works perfectly.
Man, I think you might do the best mic reviews on CZcams.
Have a pair and love them. More SDC reviews, please!
I don’t think I’ve heard a mic sound better on your acoustic than this one. Its got that Neumann detailed-but-slightly-smoothed character that I am obsessed with and why I bought a u87ai
I really liked this microphone when I tested it, and was on the verge of buying one when I found a too-good-to-let-pass-by clearance Sennheiser MKH 40 for almost the same price. Absolutely great mic as well, and never looked back. Thanks for another great review!
If you ever need to get rid of that mic for the same price you got it hmu lol, that mic is absolute gold
Fun fact: the predecessor to the KM184 was used by CBS audio technicians in 2002 when they built Bob Barker his last microphone before retirement, albeit using a different windscreen for plosive control. They're also the same mics used on the contestant's row and Showcase podiums as well as on the podiums on Family Feud. If it was good enough for Bob Barker (who, believe it or not, refused to use certain types of mics because he felt they were problematic), you know it's good enough for anyone!
An informative video again, many thanks! It would be great to see a comparison with a dpa SDC.
I am using DPA 2011C , similar price of KM 184 , I would like to see also
I bought the AT2020 mic after seeing your review, but I also acciddently bought the Behringer C-2 sdc mic while I trying to get the samsons....and I realized you never speak about this pair before....See if lucky enough to see you review that pair out because I always enjoy you ranting on the Mehringer...keep up the god work XD
Beautiful sound! Another SDC mics that I love are Line Audio CM4 and Rode NT5. The last one is very close to KM 184, I think.
One of the best review channels on CZcams! You sir, are the real shit! Thanks for another awesome review. I bought this mic and are waiting for it to arrive! Wohoooo
How not to love this guy!
The microphone is amazing
I feel like this might be like the M201TG was for me, an unexpected favourite... an expensive one but like Ryan commented: underrated.
Been using a matched pair for years on all things acoustic. Can’t beat them
Thanks a lot, great comparison! Well done....Great mic the 184, very close to the 87... . the se8 sounds also very very good
Great as usual! I wonder if you have considered the Zoom ZPC-1? I tried the vote page, but it wasn't mentioned there. Keep up the great work!
Great mic, and great review! I have a pair of these, and though they often get bashed for being too bright, I enjoy using them.
These get bashed for being too bright? That’s wild.
SO interesting how different it sounds when under- and overbooming!
Nice to see the Oktava in action.
My father is a raving fan of the Neumann SDCs (has like 8 of them). To me, they sound a bit bright, but really more of an emphasis ("Neumann sound") than a problem and really neutral apart from that. Being non-modular makes them so much cheaper than those Schoeps and def. a different kind of sound. To me, the DPAs have always sounded the most neutral (drooling over 4006s even though I will never own them).
100% agree why aren't they used more for voice? I do get the plosive amd fricative problem, but can't that be solved by placement in a good environment?
Oh, and now that water on SDCs has been broken, pls give us the 416, the MK4s and the 4011s. I really thimk your mic reviews are the best out there, bandrew even compared to SoS etc. Kudos!
Fantastic. Especially loved the BOOp at the end of the video . I wonder how the rode NT5 a cheaper alternative stacks up to this, for vox.
Greatest mic for Acoustic guitar!
Das perlt soo schön... 😙
The SDCs at last ! Now waiting for the versus version with KM184, CM4 and SE8.
Not to mention the Shure KSM137 or KSM141
A great mic. Used it decades ago.
You should do a review on the line audio cm4 👍🏽👍🏽
My favorite mic ever, i use it for vocal and acoustic Guitar
Seen this mic on overheads, etc (maybe even piano). Oh and any stringed instrument (heard it on harp I think lol). Love it to death.
The 84, and later, the current 184, are phenomenally accurate, as in, “I’ve never heard xx like this before!” Sub your normal drum OHs for these and your jaw will drop. There is zero nonlinearity of any kind. No compression anywhere in the freq band. Peaks come through untouched. The lack of distortion on high level sounds is stunning. Only a Schoeps can give it a run. Your thorough voice and guitar checks just don’t show the miraculous transient accuracy. Mic a bongo, congas, or timbale with a 184 and the resulting sound will become your reference for those instruments forever.
The only mic I've found that I prefer is probably the Beyerdynamic MC930, the 184 is an incredible mic. I prefer the 184 to the Schoeps even.
184 sounds too bright and unpleasant. Like all neumann products, it’s overpriced for its quality. There’s many mics I would use over it. Km84 is a very nice mic though.
@@miniatureface This was my initial impression when using the mic for the first time, however after buying a pair and using them frequently I found my initial impression couldn't be further from the truth, The 184's are bright for sure, but can be easily tamed by proper placement or EQ, fantastic mics if used correctly. plus there is a huge advantage with the added brightness that allows for more distance from the source without loss of presence. These mics especially shine when used as spot mics in conjunction with a main pair of room mics, the low end roll-off actually helps them blend better with a more full-range pair of mics. LOVE these mics and they do NOT deserve the hate they have on gearspace I promise if you've come to the opinion of "too bright" from a place other than personal use, re-consider your view.
@@miniatureface The KM84 is my all time favourite SDC, but the 184 is still a fantastic modern mic.
The presence boost at around 8kHz is less than 2dB, it’s brighter than neutral but still darker than most SDCs.
You can EQ out the brightness, you can’t EQ out the THD and nonlinearities of most other SDCs which is where the 184 excels.
Obviously if you have the budget for a set of vintage KM84s I would grab them, but given the price difference it’s not a fair comparison.
As far as modern SDCs go I think for the price the 184 is _by far_ the best on the market.
The only mic I like better is the Schoeps, but they’re over twice the price and the sound improvement isn’t worth the price for me personally.
@@miniatureface I feel like you might’ve heard the 184 in some very bad surroundings, bad monitor speakers or an ugly-sounding room, as it is well known for its lack of hyped response anywhere in the range. It is the mic I specify for exactly the opposite of your description, when I need to capture an honest, hype-free sound on almost any instrument. It is Neumann’s best microphone value by far, usable in near, mid, and far field like the very best of all SDCs. If you don’t like the sound you’re getting from a 184, check the instrument, your console, monitors, cables, and placement, because you can rule out the mic. It’s that good.
But the most bizarre comment of all is “overpriced for its quality.” I’m going to have to assume you don’t personally own a Neumann microphone. Every Neumann I’ve owned is simply a masterpiece in the quality department; perfect sound, simple to use, incomparable reliability. I have 40, 50, and even 70 year old Neumanns that work beautifully. They’ve all made great, even famously great, recordings year after year and I’m quite sure they will outlive me.
I used to use my Oktava mics when I was teaching on line, they sounded great but were way to sensitive. Every sound in my home studio and house were picked up by it. It was to distractive for me while teachin. I don't use them enough and I need to ! they sounds great, for the price, hard to beat
Great sounding microphone, and among the lower priced ones I liked the sE8 and the MK012 in this test (although I think they all sounded fine).
The sE small diaphragms sound incredible. Great pick!
I bought a pair of se8s a couple of years ago specifically to record acoustic guitar in stereo, but I use them for absolutely everything now they sound so nice. Little noisy, but sounds so smooth and nice.
SDCs are fantastic. If you can get your hands on one, you might want to check out the Earthworks SV33. It's pretty much a SDC in a more broadcast style mic.
Danke No 2 to Bandrew for this very elaborate video.
Thank you so much Rainer. I really appreciate the support and the kind words. You are amazing good sir.
I actually just bought this mic because of this review! I wanted a flexible mic for vocals that I had the option to boom slightly out of view
Really want to hear this one compared to my current favorite in this category, the AT4053b.
Thanks for this review. I only wish you had compared it to the Røde TF5. A pair of TF5s are very similarly priced to a pair of KM184, and judging from internet samples the TF5s sound even better than the KM184s.
Neumann also do a 183 and 185, would be cool for you to compare them sometime (even if they loan them out). The KM range seems to be loved by the Classical recording guys. Also a Gefell m300 test would be cool!
Thanks for this one!!! any chance you do a comparison of the Telefunken m60 fet??? Cheers!
Small but it will give amazing results
I’d love to see a comparison of this with the Warm Audio WA84s.
I was actually rather happy with all of the SDCs in the comparisons... I think. I bought a pair of the SE8s because I had, at one point, decided that these were really a minimum for me, but the Rode SDC was not terrible at all.
The sE8's sound great!
I dont think you have made tier list video with mics. Thank you for this video! I'm still looking for the best mic for acoustic guitar recording, Diminishing Returns applied
Correct, I haven't done any tier list videos. SDC's are the route I'd go. I really like the more neutral sound and of the mics I have tried I like the KM184/185, SM81, and sE7 se8. I have been told the SM141 is pretty darn good too but I haven't used that yet, also the beyerdynamic I did a few months ago is pretty good, and if you want a really bright sound the Lewitt SDC's offer that. There are just so many more I haven't tried.
@@Podcastage I really like your video on Shure SM57 too. When you said "Industry Standard", that's when it clicked in my head
As always, thank you.
Thank you so much for the support Adrian, it really means the world to me. You are a legend!
The only legend here is Bandrew. Will keep supporting as much as I can. Keep up all your hard work, it's greatly appreciated =)@@Podcastage
Finally!!!
Surprised at how good the SE8 sounds. Pretty great sounding for the price. And yip, I love the Sennheiser E614. It's a sleeper, no one knows about the E614.
that mic is huge
This mic hits different
it is such dang good mic
Could you please do a review of the Sontronics STC-3X Condenser Mic please.
I'd like to see how it performs in the test...😛
If its possible please review the neumann TLM 107 🙏
very interesting review ! Which is the very special sounding second chord you are playing on your acoustic guitar - after the G chord?
I'm not sure how it's a functional chord, but it's just a C# G# C#. C#dim perhaps?
E ----
B ----
G -6-
D -5-
A -4-
E ----
@@Podcastage Wow thank you Bandrew - im going to use it right away - it sounds great in between the other Chords.
Danke!
We made it 7 minutes in before we got a "Hello Neumann." I don't know if I'm proud or disappointed.
There is a band which I can't remember the name with a good looking blond female vocalist using them in videos. If they used it to record their tracks, it sounds great. As her vocals do. I've been looking at these and the Warm Audio version WA-84's for acoustics and vocals.
What about the Schoeps CMC 6 / MK 41?
I heard very little sound difference between the beyerdynamic mc930 and the ANNoy-man. Except the Beyer is half the price.
Out of curiosity, why haven't BEACN put their mic in front of you, yet?
Perfect for indoor dialogue? The wind screen is p robalby just for reducing wind noise on vocal cuing as you move the mic between actors?
I'm not experienced with much overhead mixing, I'm just starting to play around with it more, but I thought it sounded quite good at a distance of 10-12 inches.
Hello Neumann!!!!!
I wish it was compared against the CC8 or MKH 8040
I read that km series are grest for studjo only. Is it true? What would be a similar mic for filmaking in different locations and climates.?
Senn's 8040 as it's RF condenser mic and is mainly resistant to humid and RF signals.
Super curious about how the KMR 81 sounds compared to other microphones, I could only find one video with it compared to the 416. It is the microphone they used for dialogue on the original matrix, based on the sound guy’s description of using a “Neumann short shotgun“ which was most likely the 81 as that was by far their most popular short shotgun at the time.
Edit: never mind I found some. They didn’t label it anywhere and the videos are titled something generic like mic comparisons.
Glad you found it. I don't have a KMR 81 so I couldn't make that video either.
I demand a "Hello, Neumann" from you.
JK lol I love your videos.
thanks for oktava 012
Hello Neumann!
A SM57 on steroids. Versatile. Agree with you on all points.
Ahhhh... SDCs. My world. Happiness. And no, I wasn't ticked off.
Does *any* small diaphragm condenser do well with plosives?
Same question for self-noise?
I’m guessing this is more of an aspect of their design than something that can be significantly improved upon. Otherwise, wouldn’t there be just “the obvious choice” as opposed to many options?
I haven't tried putting plosives into all the SDC's I have. Ha. I have only spent significant time with the Neumann's and the Lewitt. I'll be doing the others in the coming year or so and I'm sure that it is correct that SDC's are bad with plosives and wind. That's why I said it's more of an FYI than a con.
@@Podcastage some stage condenser microphones are small diaphragm and they handle plosives well, the kms104 is built on the same capsule as the km184 for example, it is just equalized in the bass and it has a higher self noise so that limit for certain uses, that said it is usable in a close use like the acoustic guitar, neumann even made a video or he use it for this use
Okay but... if it _doesn't_ matter to me, is it still made in Germany?
That is such a sleek design. Almost a sawed off shotgun mic
do you know if the KM 184 fits the A81WS and A53M? Thanks a bunch!
I don't know about the A53M because I don't have one, so I'm sorry I can't answer that portion. The A81WS does fit on the KM184 though.
The acoustic guitar sounded SOOO good. I've wanted to tyer nad pick one of these bad boys up used to replace my shitty Avantone. It soudns good but sometimes it jsut bugs out and make a ton of background poppign adn stuff.
I challenge podcastage to find a budget version of a Sennheiser MKH 50. Something
Secret mic: Sennheiser ME36 - amazing tiny shotgun!
I agree..quite incredible on vocals spoken or otherwise. It's so neutral and transparent would be great if there were audio LUTS you could strap across to add more contrast to highs and lows.
Please review Boya by m1000 and m800
Made in Germany? Good job Neumann. Can Behringer copy that?
I'm really waiting for the crew, Podcastage, Booth Junkie, Tom Buck, Dark Corner Studios, to review this new Logitech Sona microphone.
Bandrew you look thinner than I before, if you are working out, keep it going
To my Audio Wizard 🪄
I have condenser mic can I connect my mic to phantom power supply and from the phantom power supply connect it to audio interface .. does that work or my audio interface would explode 💥
I can't find answer 😭 and last time I tried being smart oi cracked open my Xbox controller 🎮 and couldn't fix it back to what it was 😁
Rode m5 sounds also very good on your voice. A very good cheap alternative for a stereo pair. Is also very quiete and flat in response. 150€ vs 1.400€
Of course the Neumann is better!
Dammit, Bandrew, stop making me want to buy Neumann microphones! I'm running out of space for them!
Don’t buy a Neumann microphone. Did that help?
@@Podcastage 😂
Smooth like buttah!
There is so little difference between the SDCs in the comparison. They are very subtle.
About the massive comparison video I suggested, I found another video by someone with a voice like mine that did the comparison with the microphones I was curious about so you’re off the hook 👀 except for the V 67G, they didn’t include that. That was my first microphone.
Glad someone made the video you needed.
now please do the Rode TF5
Gear tangent: nod for the Tudor.
i personally use them as drum overheads, trust me yall, these little dudes will surprise you
The sE8 isn't actually that far behind. Most of the cheaper smalls don't have that richness in the lows and low mids, and are a bit too brittle up to. The Neumann (hello, Neumann) sounds really balanced, but it's not leagues ahead of the sE.
Yes. sE's SDCs are fantastic.
PLEASE REVIEW AUSTRIAN AUDIO OC18
OK but would you recommend the Apple Watch Ultra though 🤔
If you're okay with a MASSIVE watch. It's sweater weather now and the normal size Apple Watch just slides under a sweater cuff. But this thing...it gets caught when you're taking the sweater off, makes the sweater arm pop up. It's not good in that regard.
I do love the battery life and the screen though, and the action button is useful. But it's really unnecessary....but a bit fun.
What does gain 130 mean , im using mixpre 3 where gain is 0 to 100 what would be the existence, thanks 😊
1:30 is a way of describing the location of the gain dial using an analog clocks time as the reference. Assuming linear gain structure it would probably be around 60% on this interface. You would not use the same setting on your device though because your preamp will have a different gain structure.
@@Podcastage
God how have you got so much knolage lol, you know everything about mics and stuff, wish you would review stuff like mixpre 3 and rme ufx and stuff like that, it's such a great channel for someone that is trying to learn about stuff 😊
@@Podcastage
How would these do outdoors with a dead cat, I took them out with the foam on and they did not do well at all against the mild wind, what mic would be best in outdoors mild wind
Btw, I feel your ek gtr has never sounded better than with the 184. Just opened my eyes wide.
I noticed you didn’t love it at all on your guitar but I suspect just maybe that’s because it was so revealing; it might’ve been a bit of a shock. I could hear the speaker cone, the different strings within chords, the pick… as if my head was right THERE. Sometimes a sound can be disappointing because it is so foreign to expectations. I bet you could touch that with a little EQ and be super happy.
This sounds so close to the U87 ai
Wicked Enlightened Dude. Set!
Would be up to hosting you on my Podcast for Free!
Beyerdynamic MC-930