Potato Masher what everyone gets wrong
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- The Potato Masher or Stielhandgranate 24 (and 43) is the iconic German World War 2 hand grenade, yet although everyone thinks it was the most important German hand grenade, this does not seem to be true. It's little know cousin the Eihandgranate 39 should not be underestimated.
Disclaimer: I was invited by the Forum Wehrgeschichte OÖ in 2022. www.wehrgeschichte-ooe.at/
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BArch, RH 2/3684: Merkblatt 25/3: Anleitung für den Nahkampf und die Handgranatenausbildung.
Reibert, W.: Reibert: Der Dienst-Unterricht im Heere. Ausgabe für den Schützen der Schützenkompanie. 13. Auflage, E.S. Mittler & Sohn: Berlin, Germany, 1943.
Altrichter, Friedrich: Der Reserveoffizier. Ein Handbuch für den Offizier und Offizieranwärter des Beurlaubtenstandes aller Waffen. Vierzehnte, durchgesehene Auflage, Verlag E.S. Mittler & Sohn: Berlin, Germany, 1941.
Kühlwein, Fitz: Die Gruppe im Gefecht. (Die neue Gruppe). Elfte, völlig neubearbeitete Auflage, E.S. Mittler & Sohn: Berlin, Germany, 1940.
H.Dv. 130/2a: Ausbildungsvorschrift für die Infanterie. Heft 2a: Die Schützenkompanie. (Entwurf). Nachdruck mit eingearbeiten Berichtigungen gemäß H.M. 41 Nr. 189 u. H.V.Bl. (C) Nr. 890, Verlag „Offene Worte“: Berlin, Germany, 1942.
Payne, Craig M.: Principles of Naval Weapon Systems. Second Edition, Naval Institute Press: Annapolis, Maryland, USA, 2010.
00:00 Intro
01:06 Stielhandgranate 24 & 43
01:46 Eihandgranate 39
02:18 Blast vs. Fragmentation
04:29 Differences between Stielhandgrante and Eihandgranate
07:44 Why Stielhandgranate is so prevalent
10:55 Summary
#Stielhandgranate,#potatomasher,#stickhandgrenade
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So you don't use to mash potatoes?
A small boy would be able to draw a stickhandganate and is easy to se what it is. the egg handgrante is hard to draw.
Is it on kindle app?
@@AJasonNorthrup nope
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized if i may add a nitpick, i think you missed one of the main reasons why the stick hand grenade became so iconic, wich is that the other countries did not have anything similar, by virtue of being the only country that fielded that weapon, and how distinctive and eye catching it is, it automatically becomes an iconic weapon of the german army.
I'm an old fart, born in 1942 and growing up after the war. I saw every war movie that came to my small one theater in a small town in America. I never once saw the German "egg" grenade depicted. The American "pineapple" grenade were depicted all the time. Until today, I never knew the German egg grenade existed. Thank you for telling us about it. My father always said it "was a bad day if you didn't learn something new". Thanks for making it a good day today.
Keep on fartin brother.
thank you for your service.
Thats a nice saying
There's a scene in the film Downfall where someone used egg grenades to commit suicide.
@@SquareHeadSlacker I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I served in the military. As I said , I was born in 1942. I never served in the military.
Judging from the generally meticulous nature of German operational instruction….the fact that they specifically mention the proper method to throw the StHg in a forested area definitely leads to me believing that some soldiers experienced a “oh Sheiße” bounce off a tree limb while lobbing one.
"Ich nebel selbst!" 1940s style
Oh jojo
Given German operational instruction is based on _Prussian_ instruction... which is what provided the basis for US operational instruction (as a certain _extremely gay_ Prussian literally built the foundation of the US military back in the Revolutionary War)... it isn't unwarranted.
@@TheTrueAdept who are you reffering to? Out of curiosity.
@@Deathskull0001 most likely Friedrich Wilhelm August Heinrich Ferdinand von Steuben
The only time I've seen seen the Egg Grenade in popular media was from a interactive cutsene from Call of Duty 3 of all things.
Interesting!
Look at vintage film of the German forces , you will see eggs on many troops.
Some good photos of the SS in Normandy with eggs .
There's a scene in "Downfall" where one of the generals kill's himself and his family using a couple of the egg grenades.
I remember that part, you literally fight a guy and then pull the top of the egg grenade and push him into a window. It was hard for me as a little kid on the wii. Oh also I'm pretty sure I saw some egg grenades in The Pianist when the main character hides in that resistance hideout.
Ei is "egg", BTW. Maybe he mentioned that and I missed it.
Plus, for Heer reenactors, it's a lot easier to find your thrown potato masher than it would be to find that Eihandgranate you tossed at the 506th five minutes ago...
I daresay that that is not an issue, since there are as good as no reenactors
[edit] Just realized that the situation might be different in other countries, nevermind.
Yet another consideration: ever since WWI, American trenches have been built with a narrow but deep cut out around the bottom edge called a "grenade sump". If somebody throws a round or oval grenade in the trench, you can quickly kick it into the sump where it will explode harmlessly.
With the long handle, the potato masher is unlikely to go where you kick it and even more unlikely to fit into the sump. Clearly the Army had been seeing a good amount of egg grenades or they wouldn't have felt the sumps were beneficial at all.
You could say the stick grenade was more photogenic 😁 I had an "Action Man" doll as a kid and the German uniform came with a potato masher: easier to fit in the hand grip and less likely to be lost.
I remember action man dolls. It's so strange thinking back on something with so much cheesy machismo was a popular kids toy with such a weird name.
The GI Joe "action figures" (don't call them dolls!) from my youth were pretty accurate WWII soldiers. My brother had the German soldier, I had an American and later, a British Paratrooper. Their uniforms and equipment were distinctive. I was very sad when they switched over to the fantasy soldier crap, Cobra and all that. I don't have any of them any more, I bet they would have been worth a pretty penny to a collector.
I had tje Action Man action figure as well. The uniforms and vehicles were great. I had the paratrooper, scuba, and Nazi on top of the tank and helicopter. They put a lot of work into being accurate.
Exactly my thoughts too!
There were two grenades for Action Man, the German ‘stick’ and the American ‘pineapple’.
I lost more ‘pineapples’ than I care to remember in the back yard battles with childhood friends.
@@Ozchuck I'll take "cheesy machismo" over the current teachings of either "Let's hold hands with our enemies and be nice to them and they'll be nice to us" or "98 pound when soaking wet woman can easily whip a 300+ pound muscular guy that is a trained killer" stuff that's being pushed today.
I read one US soldier's assessment of the "potato masher" and he seemed to think it was a good offensive weapon. He said that the Germans threw the grenade and assaulted WHILE ut was going off due to it's short range blast effect. Meanwhile, when an American threw a pineapple grenade EVERYONE kept their head down because the frag pattern was so unpredictable. In training, they were told a fragment could go up to a 100 yards!
The only time I've come across the egg shaped grenade in media, is when playing as the Wehrmacht in the early war (German V France) maps of Post Scriptum.
Post Scriptum is also the only place I've come across the stick smoke grenades (Alongside Hell Let Loose).
Most people probably don't care for that level of detail, but it's exactly the reason I play Post Scriptum. Attention to detail & historical accuracy.
I have no interest in storming the beaches of Iwo Jima as a US Marine, equipped with an STG 44 and a red dot sight..
In "Downfall" there's a scene where one of the general's commits suicide at his dining room table using a couple of the egg grenades.
I first saw the Egg grenade in Forgotten Hope. Always wondered why the german assault class had that instead of the stick grenades.
Stick smokes are also in Red Orchestra 2, but there are no egg grenades in that game. That game was cool because the different grenades had their historical fuze times, and were thus different between the factions. Also the Type 97 grenade could be used as a booby trap.
Forgotten Hope 2 may be of big interest to you, has superb historical accuracy and many maps with lots of detail depicting North Africa, Eastern Front and Western Front 1944-1945, and recently added France 1940 too. Even has Italian and Finnish forces, as well as Australians and New Zealand... A lot more is planned also!
Received better graphics, completely new HUD and all that too compared to BF2 which it is based on, and is available as Standalone version
Ha, Pot Scriptum
I cannot remember the source - old age and gin - but I do remember a British soldier's memoir of his squad stalking a German sniper ensconced in a burned-out tank. They had closed the distance and were just about to make his life interesting and short, when an egg-grenade came soaring out of a hatch and they all had to hit the dirt. By the time it exploded, not doing any damage, the sniper was gone.
Simply because of visual distinctiveness, the potato masher would stick in the memory even if Egg Grenades had been ten times as common, just like the Gull Wing and air horns of the Stuka.
I remember being very surprised by those egg grenades when they are used to commit suicide in "Downfall". I wondered at the time if they were looted Russian grenades.
Funny thing is that Red army often used it's own stick RDG-35.
Just like the Red Baron's red Fokker triplane of WWI. When I was very young, I thought that was "the" fighter plane used by the Germans in WWI.
@@johnc2438 Plus it wasn't used by the Red baron that long. Most of his victories were won in Albatross fighters.
Below follows an untranslatable pun in German language:
Tja, die Stielhandgranate hat etwas, das die Eihandgranate nicht hat: Stil!
Thank you for clearly demonstrating that small hands make any shaft look huge.
I'm Swiss, and I've throw both still of grenades (HG43 and HG85). You may throw the HG43 farter and with more precision, fuse them (wait a will before throwing), combine them together, or use as a detonator for explosiv tube. The HG85 style is lighter and you may easier set up a boby trap.
I think an extra reason why the stick grenade is so recognizable is the fact it was visually unique and used pretty much only by the German Army.
I dare say its status could be compared to the Japanese so called knee mortar - a weapon system with distinctive look and one that was used by only one Army.
Which for the stick grenade, actually isn't true. The Russian's also had their own stick grenades (though they're a bit different), that ironically were also captured and used by the Germans.
I think who was on the receiving end of the grenades plays into it. If the Germans are attacking something, the egg grenades are going to be either be thrown at the enemy, or the Germans that ran away will still have them, the only ones the other side are going to find are on the bodies left behind from a failed assault. If the Germans are on the defensive, the stick grenades would be found on the bodies of the defenders and in any captured stockpiles. That of course implies the Germans didn't issue them interchangeably, and tried to issue them to troops using them for their intended purpose.
@@SgtBeltfed The Soviet stick grenades were anti-tank grenades, while these are anti-infantry grenades. The main anti-infantry grenade of the Soviets was the F-1 grenade, nicknamed "Lemonka" (Lemon grenade) for her shape.
@@podemosurss8316 Incorrect. The RDG-33 was Russia's anti-personnel grenade at the start of the war and was replaced because it was complicated to produce. As they were in used early in the war, and the German's captured a lot of equipment early in the war, that would explain how the German's had enough to issue to their own troops. There's actually a picture of an RDG-33 in the video with it's fragmentation sleeve, which works a lot like a it's German equivalent.
@@SgtBeltfed True, I was thinking of the RPG-40 and RPG-43 models (which were anti-tank grenades).
Switzerland did use a HG43, very similar to the German one, up to the end of last century.
The stick grenade does have a roll advantage. The egg grenade or allied "pineapple" grenades rolled rather well which in some cases can cause problems. Nothing worse than that perfectly lobbed grenade rolling into a drainage channel before it goes off to a reduced effect.
I'd imagine in a sudden CQB situation at least one soldier must have used a stick grenade to bludgeon an enemy soldier in an ill advised act of desperation.
No--nothing worse than that perfectly lobbed grenade rolling back at you before it goes off to full effect.
@Ivan Ivanoff This is opposite to the conclusion reached in the video, however. Though it does say that the egg grenade was used more defensively later in the war, presumably due to Germany losing the ability to mount offensive operations in general.
A sober person would throw it...
Stick grenade is also a lot harder to kick into a grenade sump if you throw it into a foxhole. Takes longer to throw back than a lighter egg grenade, too. Quite a bit more accurate in the throw, with a more parabolic trajectory so you can lob it over obstacles.
But that doesn't do you any good if you can only carry 3 sticks instead of 6 eggs and you run out mid-fight.
I can imagine a veteran infantryman probably kept a few of each on hand at all times.
@@Rutherford_Inchworm_III having a mixed arsenal is just useful full stop. I'd imagine troops would try to aquire anything that goes bang once shit gets real. War is chaos and one cannot prepare for that unless that preparation is to be equipped for any possibility, having a mix of grenades and a lot of them is a good start.
I've been watching your channel for 5+ years. Thanks for always teaching me new facts and perspectives. Whilst many other channels fade away in my memory you remain interesting!
Thank you!
Something I'd like to say. This is the first "normal" mhv video since the russian invasion to Ukraine. I think you have forgotten what mhv is all about: military history. I am not saying that those videos about the recent conflict are bad, irrelevant or even political; you are able to make good quality videos about anything. It's just that you have thrown yourself a bit too far to the current happenings like everyone else and I have not received my weekly ww2 content which is what I come here for.
@@laurisikio I personally like his videos about the current conflict. I also found him with his videos about ww2 years ago but he also covered medieval and napoleonic times. Since we are witnessing the russian ukranian war it makes his videos about that subject all the more interesting in my opinion.
Everybody who has thrown a grenade would know the difference immediately.The stick grenade would be more comfortable to throw at large distances, the now common, egg grenade is lighter and a soldier can wear more grenades, but it will be hard to throw it at far distances.
But remember distance is less important then accuracy
@@ipodhty Sure that's why they don't make grenades with sticks anymore.I guess they were pretty handy during the world wars with the massive armies.
@@ipodhty i mean you are also more acurate with a stiehhandgranate
and being further aay from the enemy out of their reach but inside yours is also not bad
@@ipodhty To be fair, grenades aren't generally a precision weapon most of the time.
I suspect it was more the bulk and weight for shipping/carrying that really were the difference. Along with the stick getting caught on stuff.
The sheer prevalence of American or Soviet grenades in international aid pqckages after the war may well have helped.
@@88porpoise It's easier to toss egg shaped nades through windows though
Something interesting to note about the compactness of the eihandgranaye 39. According to a field manual on Forest Combat written up in late 1944 by the 6th SS mountain division, it notes that the eihandgranate was the preferred grenade of choice for the reconnaissance patrol as the stick grenades often hit tree branches when thrown. It was recommended that each member of a reconnaissance patrol carry 2-4 egg grenades. To supplement their stocks of egg grenades they can be seen in wartime photos using Finnish egg grenades.
Also something to note about it’s commonality that’s something I notice a lot in reenactment. I see a lot more reenactors carrying stick grenades than I do eggs. Most likely to looking at photos and having confirmation bias and not looking more into the issuance of grenades.
The main thing that I remember the Eihangranate 39 from is as the grenade that some officer guy in Downfall committed suicide with. It was that one scene, he gave them to his wife and kids and they all sat at the dinner table.
An excellent example! Yep, that was some SS doctor who performed some experiments on people and knew his goose was cooked. He had two egg-grenades and wrapped the cords around one another so he could activate both at the same time.
Yup remember that too
SS-Obergruppenführer Ernst-Robert Grawitz. He was the equivalent of a three star general as well as being a trained doctor. As well as experimenting/murdering/torturing himself as an SS doctor, he had second to final approval on SS plans to perform medical experiments/torture on prisoners. At the end of the war he was assigned to Hitler's bunker as a doctor. Hitler refused him permission to leave as the Soviets approached Berlin so he suicided and homicided his wife and two young children.
Would you say that sick grenade was a bit like Luger pistol? That it was a memorable WW1 weapon that was still in widespread use buring ww2, despite neither of them being the main weapon if it's type by the end of ww2?
No I wouldn't say that.
The Eihandgranate 39 was also present in one of the Sniper Elite series game, everything now makes sense on why the Stielhandgranate 43 did less damage to the enemies than a defensive pinapple or a wired fragmentation grenade
Additional option: the Eihandgranate looked quite similar to American and British models, so it would not stick out. Any soldier without instruction would recognize them as grenades. But the Stiehlhandgranate was very different and likely to attract attention.
And when dealing with the enemy, you probably want to reforce the differences, both because of caution (is this a Wunderwaffe? does it work better than ours?) and to detach yourself from killing them.
In ex Yugoslavia ww2 movies i watched they mostly used egghand grenade with actors playing germans and up untill this point i always thought it was because they didnt simply have german potato masher grenades (they used sometimes allied stuff painted over for showing german forces) so they used some western/soviet ones but now i know that IT was a german grenade. Never knew about german egg grenade untill now wonder about whats more similar to that
I know of the eihandgranate 39 because of Forgotten hope 2, an extremely historical accurate WW2 modification of battlefield 2. Even coming across wehraboos later during discussions who had NO idea the eigranate existed. and then i was "yeah this videogame has it, and then i found it in books"
In general, grenades are so overlooked in any historical discussion. Everyone talks about the Mk2, Mills bomb or stielhandgranate. But how many know about the concussion grenade MK3, or the always fuze No 69 british concussion grenade. The eihandgranate is the perfect example on how some equipment that was used so much, is so overlooked by counterparts wich were more iconic in documentaries.
Hey another FH2 player!
My favorite was always the Italian grenade, wish someone would have told me it exploded on impact, would have saved me an embarassing death!
@@GlamStacheessnostalgialounge Tell me about it, then i made an even bigger mistake by taking out the No 73 Thermos grenade and finding out 2 things. 1. Friendly fire is on. 2. The blast radius of this grenade is bigger than the throwing range. 3. Pissing off Ts4ever by killing his entire squad results in a kick!
I know of that handgranate from the game PostSciptum
In WW2, greandes were the main weapon in any kind of urban warfare or close combat, as even during an "assault", hand-to-hand fighting with knives, shovels or bayonets was pretty rare (especially on the western front - the Soviets did like to do bayonet charges, which were sometimes effective but often disastrous).
>"extremely historically accurate"
>literary has Tiger with soviet D-10
Yes, iconic imagery in films tends to replicate itself in later films for the reasons you give. Even if a technical assistant for a film made in 1950 knew what you've shown and recommended the egg grenade should be used, the director would say "The hell with that, the viewer 'knows' the Germans used stick grenades." For a 1960s film this would be repeated for another generation.
Film makers loved the Luger P08 for its great visual lines and showed it more than the Walther P-38 that was made in greater numbers. The Walther looks like just a generic pistol.
I think it's got a unique profile as well at least compared to modern handguns but the luger is definitely the more distinct example, particularly with the toggle lock, I know they were even less common but when I think iconic ww2 handguns the Mauser C96 sticks out in my brain for the really unique profile lol
Years ago when talking about grenades a former Marine laughed at me for referring to a Mills bomb (fragmentation grenade) as a defensive grenade. But thanks to your "Blast vs. Fragmentation" part I feel vindicated by history. But, like, literally.
Many years ago at a gun show I bought an inert Mills bomb. When I got home I undid the base and found that the Mills bomb still had the fuse and the powder in it. Good thing that I didn't pull the safety pin!
Marines will argue with tree stumps, God bless them😁
@@IvorMektin1701 and somehow the stump usually wins the argument.
Also, on the Eihandgranate grenades, different timer fuses could be inserted, and some of those were an instant fuse where the grenade would detonate immediately. These were meant for traps, but sometimes were just left lying around for German enemies to try and use. I can't remember which exact color was used, but all the timer were color coded, including the instant time. I assume the Stielhandgranate 43+ could use the same fuse timers, as they used the same mechanism, but everything I've read only list the use in the Eihandgranate.
Source? Cause I did not come across anything in that regard. Color code was mentioned for the grenades itself: red being training. It would make sense, since the blue top for the Eihandgranate stuck out, but I did not see anything in the official documentation nor books I looked at. Although I don't have a manual on the grenade. I suspect that maybe these different timers were discontinued rather soon?
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized I was curious how the fuse worked and found this. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_39_grenade
Can't vouch for it's accuracy though.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized I have a book somewhere that mentions different fuzes. It's an older book; I want to say Weapons And War Machines. From what I recall there was mention of a number of different fuze lengths. I can't say whether the book's information is accurate though.
I read that the Soviets would supply grenades with different fuze time, right down to Zero (To be used in booby traps) but no one else. Again from what I have read this difference in fuze time was in every box of grenades and Soviet soldiers were trained to be able to read the time for that fuse (and when forces supported by the US, when they captured such boxes of grenades, would find out about the zero fuse when they used one of them in combat NOT knowing the number on the fuse meant something other then the number in the shipping box).
Wouldn't the same fuzes also work on the newer stick granades since they use the same fuze system?
I seem to remember watching ww2 movies that when using american and british grenades, you often got a close in shot of the soldier pulling the pin out, whereas with the stick grenade, you often got wide shots instead. In that way it gives a director a lot more options for a scene.
I've used a replica stahlhandgrenate rigged with an airsoft grenade. And it was very effective with hard to toss angles and long range throws.
I don't know about the visibility part for the "egg" grenade. I own a boat load of video (Greman news reels and combat video) showing the model 39 very well represented. A great many, especially from the Eastern Front, depicts the 39's being carried by the lanyard ring hanging upside down attached to the bottom snap cover of their ammo pouches. But I get it, a stahlhelme with a potato masher sticking out of the top of each knobel becher...... Yep, it's a German Landser... I saw it in a move......lol.
I’ve seen the round grenade used in the ending of “Downfall” when the German general pulls the pin on two during dinner with his family.
Perception often prevails over data. For example, more B-24s were produced than B-17s but the B-17 seems to be the most depicted bomber. There were more Army troops than Marines in the Pacific, but the Marines are the icon of the Pacific war.
In Switzerland stickhandgranades like the type 1924 were used until the nineties. As an infantry radio operator I was trained to throw these items (fake ones). Once I trew a real charge in my life. It was a bit of a thrill for me and perhaps even more for the instructing officer standing beside me.
I think it might be important to mention that, as you've said yourself in a previous video about the anti-air 'stick' glider defenses, the egg grenades were used oftentimes in fortifications, traps, and so on in ways the stick grenade could not accommodate. So I think maybe several many of the egg grenades never made it into troops' hands because they were used for other purposes than infantry combat. So while maybe 9 million more were produced, I wonder how many less made it to the troops directly than the stick grenades.
Just a thought. Love your work as always!
Both of them have some unique uses, I feel the smaller egg granade is better used for improvised mines where the stick granade can be used for destroying tanks or as a heavy anti personal weapon when bundled (multiple heads tired together with wire with one stick to fuze them)
For a cool dramatic use of the stick grenade in a booby trap, check out the sniper scene from the Chinese movie 'Flowers of War.' Propaganda, but well done propaganda.
Interestingly, there were Egg Grenades used by the German Army in the 1st World War, but they were even smaller (almost literally chicken egg sized) and used very much as offensive grenades. As you point out, the Stielhandgranate became iconic because, well, it's different.
In WW1 the Germans also had percussion-fuzed 'discus' hand grenades, an entirely different concept (and throwing action) which proved less effective than hoped.
Man, between your channel, MAV and Uncle Drach you guys are the ultimate trifecta of accurate history for WW2.
There was also some suggestions that the stick grenade was used largely for boobytraps, and as such special importance was placed on those in Allied material, which is more accessible to most than German ones
Since the stick grenade (prior to the M43 at least) was primed by pulling a cord which comes out of the bottom of the stick, it could simply be hung upside down *by the string* on barbed wire to create a dangerous booby trap. Enough motion would cause the cord to be tugged by the weight of the grenade and detonated. This was certainly done in WW1, and I would be amazed if it wasn't done in WW2 as well.
The Whermacht was too scared to call the 39 a potato grenade
lol Kartoffelgranate would also have been a very long name
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Sprengkartoffel?
@@n.a.4292 That is a pretty cool name!
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized But wouldn't that be keeping with the way Germans usually come up names for things?
The egg grenade was featured in the movie “Downfall” when one of the senior officers takes out himself and his family. I had always wondered were they a real German grenade, blame the stick grenade for hogging the limelight! Thanks for cleaning it up!
I remember the egg grenade was portrayed in the movie _Downfall,_ where the fat SS doctor guy blew up himself and his family.
I think his name was Grawitz. He used two of them in the film version at least. Perhaps one might not have been enough to wipe himself and everyone else out.
Just a small language note: Mio is not used as an abbreviation for million in English.
There's a scene in the motion picture "Downfall" where a Gauleiter blows up his family gathered around the dinner table using two round grenades.
I was going to mention that. Terrible thing to do to your loved ones.
Yeah, that was the only movie I recall showing the use of the "egg".
There's probably one additional point worth mentioning in the prominence: I doubt there's much left that's recognizable from the egg hand grenade once it's been used. The stick grenade however will leave the stick, and likely some of the end in most cases. This means anyone going through after a battle will find the latter, even if the former was used more. (The latter also would be an interesting battlefield souvenir as well, while the former is just a twisted mass of metal.)
ive seen one explode. The "stick" did not survive at all
Yeah, i'm going to agree with Cryde here, i doubt much of the stick survived as anything but needles and splinters.
How does a hunk of wood survive a point blank grenade explosion? Yeah, I'm with these other commenters, this is just not true
@@BigSwede7403 would you play catch with your dog with this?
@@empathicalcryde8803 Nope, because ordinary sticks are free of charge in the woods, but this "stick", even if just the handle, is a historical artefact that should be preserved.
Now that's what I call the forbidden Fabergé Egg.
Will readily admit...did not know about the egg grenade until now. Well done!
I appreciate your fact filled analysis. In the case of the egg grenade and the 43 "potato masher", one additional feature not mentioned was the variable timed detonators for the egg detonators. This made the egg type potentially usable in three modes:
1. Long delay
2. Medium delay
3. No delay, for booby traps or for munitions left behind, tempting the overrunning force to try to utilize, and self-destroy.
This was also a feature of the egg grenade to be delivered in "suitcases" of larger numbers and not require the pre-assembly of the "24".
Thanks!
I'm reminded of the scene in 'The Longest Day' with the German cannon fodder infantryman throwing the 'potato masher' in seeming slow-motion and just standing there after throwing it. And according to movie logic they didn't explode-only made a noise compared to US pineapple grenades that had a small nuclear device in them with impeccable friend/foe timing devices.
Okay, I imagine that the egg was so beautiful that it almost completely blew into oblivion. Without serious forensics at the time, no one was looking for them. They did their job and disappeared
The Stielhandgranate has a very distinctly Germanic look to it. Even other stick grenades like the Soviet RGD-33, which has a much shorter stick, can't be mistaken for it. It was inevitable that it'd be one of the iconic German weapons.
The stick granate was for trench and open field combat, the egg granate for urban combat. In Stalingrad they cleared houses and rooms often by throwing a egg granate in the room before they entered it.
"only 75.5 million" yeah, ONLY enough grenades to individually account for every single casualty during the greatest conflict in history
Because of the size and longer air time, vets probably also had more memories of seeing potato mashers being thrown at them.
The egg hand grenade also makes an appearance in the ww1 video game Verdun (though it is the model 17, obviously). That's where I first learned that they existed.
If you refer to the M39 in this video that's very impressive
It's so funny with how it looks like the neanderthal version of it's WW2 cousin just like the earlier stick granades, it's like those evolution of man charts but with explosive devices
Guy Sajer says in his book The Forgotten soldier that when he was training with the Gross Deutschland they would put a potato masher on top of your helmet and set it off, if you didn’t move you’d be fine, presumably it was either only the detonator or the detonator and a limited charge.
That's a powerful book. Wish I could find my copy.
Fun fact: The Mk 2 is the go-to grenade for pretty much every American film and television show that has a grenade in it, even though it hasn't been in service for over 50 years.
Thanks for this! I had no clue the egg hand grenade existed!
That’s a great point about the potato masher being so much easier to discern in photos and videos, I hadn’t thought of that as one of the reasons the smaller (and frankly, rather dodgy-looking) egg grenade has been overlooked. Thanks for the video!
I’m serious about the thing looking dodgy, though. Like a South Pacific cargo cult fashioned a “grenade” out of ration tins.
Actually the American grande was made that way for a specific reason . it was approximately the same size and shape as an American baseball and many American soldiers were used to throwing one with some accuracy.
Nice transition effect in the end, between the helmet and MP40 images and then the videos of them popping up :)
part of it being more prominent may be that it would be taken as a souvenier more often
its distinctive shape makes it more interesting that the egg grenade which many other armies used as well
Here is another thing when it comes to the amount manufactured, if each soldier could carry more they’d have to have more to carry; they made more to allow their soldiers to carry more. If one soldier could carry one stick grenade, or three of the smaller grenades then they’re gonna manufacture three times the amount of them assuming each soldier would be carrying grenades.
Thank you for this fascinating insight into the stick and egg grenades. I learned today that Germany made smaller grenades, despite only ever seeing the long stick grenades in every image of a German soldier I saw.
I always assumed the stick was on the grenade so you could throw it further than a grenade without a stick.
As a military antiques dealer specializing in inert ordnance I often get asked about ww2 German grenades. I like to show people the array of captured weapons employed by the Germans as well as the M39. I just got in two excellent condition M39s, best I've seen in many years. I like them, though the stick grenade is far more iconic.
you are so thorough it boggles the mind
Some good info. Thank you for taking the time to make the video.
Oh wow, I've been living 5 minutes from Ebelsberg for a year now and I didn't know they had that. That's really cool!
One of the best history channels on TY...EVER. Thank you MHV!
I imagine, that in a tight spot, stick grenades make a handy club.
German grenades during WWII also caused injuries requiring more soldiers being pulled off the line, because being not as lethal meant 2 evac +1 casualty. If dead they're not especially in a hurry to get pulled off the line.
I've heard the stick grenade was popular as some people feel they are easier/more accurate to use.
They had the Splitterring fragmentation sleeve you could put on the grenade to make it frag
I remember seeing the Egg Hand Grenade in some old Yugoslav partisan movies. Pretty sure they were used because after WWII, Yugoslavia had a large amount of captured German equipment, so de-commissioned grenades were aplenty to be used as props, especially about the partisan "bombaši" (grenadiers). The Stahlehelm was for some time the official helmet of the armed forces until domestic production started.
I wanted to add that I read in a pop history magazine (Historia) that the fuzes of the M39 and M43 both allowed an instantaneous fuze setting to be used for booby traps. Maybe this could explain the higher production numbers for Eihandgranaten, being used as improvised mines?
I wish you were able to show the internal diagrams of the egg and stick grenades, to show how their designs differed.
Due to the need to make provision for an optional fragmentation sleeve, the 1924 design sacrificed an important feature from earlier models. In WW1, Stielhandgranaten had a hook on the side of the head. The WW1 Landser did not need to tuck stick grenades under his belt, down his jackboots etc. - he could simply hang them off his belt.
👍 Very interesting .. thanks.
To think of it, going back some years now, reading fiction novels by the German author Willi Heinrich, based on his experiences on the Eastern Front during WW2, the term, "carrying sacks of grenades" comes to mind. My visualisation thereof was always 'bags full of the 'potato mashers'' .. which in hindsight, did not really seem to work. Now, sacks of the 'egg' version thereof makes sense.
As an aside, I enjoyed his novels .. the most well known (to my knowledge) being 'Cross of Iron' .. with some visually rich prose therein .. to this effect, 'Steiner and Schnurrbart sitting side by side on a bench, looking out over the lake .. no need for conversation .. friends' and 'Steiner pulling a small bag out of his pack, which contained potatoes and other vegetables, from which a soup was made and shared with the rest of the group.' A true Leader, caring for the welfare of his men.
A nice share .. with the added re-awakening of some nostalgia going back 40-odd years .. thanks for that.
Take care ..
They had bags for the Stiehlhandgranate. The paratrooper had two bags connected with two belts wich they could wear like a vest and carry 2x5 Stiehlhandgranaten, the army had a simpler version of it with one rope to hang the bags around the neck and a string on each bag to bind it to the waist belt.
And there was also a half open bag, with 4 slots wich could be worn on the side or on the back, so that others had quick and easy access while crouching or lying.
@@wolf310ii 👍 .. thanks for that .. much appreciated.
The classic means of carrying a large number of stick grenades which was used in the later years of WW1 consisted of a pair of sacks made from sandbags, slung under each arm and looking a bit like water wings. The grenades were stored in the sacks head-down, from which they could rapidly be pulled for throwing. An assault trooper equipped with this rig would wear his rifle or carbine slung across his back, the grenades being his primary weapon.
Thank you for the research and fine presentation.
8:47 The stick handgrenade clearly sticks out.. I love those puns
Another big reason for the St.Hg 24 being more known is the fact that most every German WW2 miniatures are depicted with this grenade. Just look at Airfix sets and more recently Warlord Games.
I never had a clue there was the egg version.
Even after throwing expert on hand grenades for an EIB, I always assumed I could throw a stick grenade further. I wouldn’t want to drag a belt full of them through raspberry vines, though. I’m guessing that’s why we never tried them.
Honestly I'd feel safer then models with pins, you need to unscrew the bottom or the top to use the stick grenades, a MK2, millsbomb or F1 have the big ring that screams "snag me on foliage and blow your whole fireteam up"
Now I want to see details on the frag sleeves and how the fuze works. Great informative video.
sidefact the Eihandgranate had several different fuses marked by colour , blue is about 7 seconds delay as "normal" but red color on top of the fuse indicated that the timer between pulling the pin and the explosion is just 1 second .
as the Germans started to retreat the first major times in North Africa they intentionally left often Eihandgranaten back to get captured by the British but changed the fuse before doing so, which led to some very nasty situations for Allied Soldiers , as it's obvious what effect such trickery would have at I.e. a unit crouched together in cover .
You pretty much nailed why I think the stick grenade is the iconic WW2 German grenade. The egg grenade just isn't visually distinct, it just looks like a generic grenade, much like the American pineapple. The stick grenade though just has a visual distinction that stands out.
"it clearly...sticks out" god damnit
Another well presented, well thought out episode.
Thank you...
The question omitted question is was it made after its obsolescence because the tooling was already up and running and they didn't want to take the line down. Lots of stuff was done that way at the time, it was more important to get it out the door than to do it in the most efficient way.
Sir! Scuse me. You mean to tell me.........Germany used multiple grenade types during ww2........holy hell I was today years old when I found out. I knew about offensive and defensive grenades during ww1 but this is news to me! Appreciate the content as always, and mostly appreciate finding out something new!
In all the films, comics or books set in WW2 I've seen/read over the years the only ones that regularly make reference to the carrying & use of egg grenades rather than just stick grenades are those by Sven Hassel - I'd fallen into the 'only stick grenades' belief until then.
Stukas dropping stick grenades during a Blitzkreig would be the ultimate photo ops!
Hadn't realised that there was an egg-shaped German grenade. On an almost related point, the "pineapple" grenade doesn't explode into those distinctive squares of shrapnel, the fragments are smaller and more randomly shaped.
There was a type of material made out of old gunpowder. It became a plastic in composition and could be machine shaped. I read that they made all of the stick grenade out of it and issued metal sleeves for fragmentation when needed. Have you ever hear about this material?
That would be "Nipolit" you're referring to. Lot's of info to be found if you enter that in any search engine.
@@PanzerAce247 Thank you
I wonder at what stage during WWII the production of the Eihandgranate overtook its older counterpart.
I think that most WW2 history buffs are certainly aware of the 'egg'; it does boil down to what the observer notices. Stick grenades sticking out of a soldiers boot or belt, with the visual cue of both grenade and club (the oldest weapon next to the rock) is what embeds in memory the most. Of course you wouldn't use one for a club, but perception and memory trump reality most of the time.
The only film I can recall even showing the "egg" was Downfall where Grawitz kills himself and his family with two eggs at the dinner table.
Talking about german grenades with so strong German accent is so harmonious. So I believe in any word.
This is a wonderfully plausible analysis. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've only messed with inert replicas but I can really whip a stick grenade a LOT farther than a conventional grenade, with a lot more accuracy too.
I'll be honest, I always just naturally assumed the stick grenade was a world war one exclusive and that everyone had moved on to the much simpler "Pineapple" or "apple" designs by world war 2 and that any stick grenades were just leftovers from world war 1 production, so I was wrong in the opposite direction.
The interesting thing on the Eihandgranaten are the different fuzes
There where "suprises"